British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of the replies to the questions asked of the head if IFCE are quite illuminating. I'd say he's fighting his corner very well. £210 million figure touted by BASSA, purported as being utterly made up, a good explanation of certain savings. At least there's now some meat being added to what has, thus far, been a mildly hysterical discourse.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Surrey
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glamgirl and HiFlyer14
I'll be crossing that picketline with you. You are far from alone. I believe we need to make savings and like many, I'd go for greater efficiency rather than lower pay. Sadly, the time to negotiate a solution on our terms seems to have passed.
Still, I'd rather have a job on worse terms and conditions than no job at all. I fear many of my striking colleagues will end up with the latter. Good luck to you.
The BASSA forum is vile at the moment. No input from reps at all and some really aggressive posts that are almost certainly bullying and harassment. We've even got idiots calling for a "Sickday on 30th" and "I tell you, I'll blow a slide the day I leave BA" and "I'll see BA go down before I accept these changes". Truly pathetic. Don't these idiots realise that their posts can become part of the evidence to be used against them. It's anonymous now but it sure won't be if things end up in court - ask BALPA re Openskies.
So no-one who wants a reasonable solution posts there, the only voices are those who want to strike and they believe their own hype. FWIW, not ONE of my friends will strike. Not one. They are all disgusted with BASSA. And the support back at Gatwick is almost non-existent. In fact, there's even an air of "they'll get what's been coming to them"
And the best posts on the BASSA forum? "I won't work for this kind of money"
Hmm, but it has been ok for Gatwick crew to work that hard and earn that much??? We reap what we sow.
I'll be crossing that picketline with you. You are far from alone. I believe we need to make savings and like many, I'd go for greater efficiency rather than lower pay. Sadly, the time to negotiate a solution on our terms seems to have passed.
Still, I'd rather have a job on worse terms and conditions than no job at all. I fear many of my striking colleagues will end up with the latter. Good luck to you.
The BASSA forum is vile at the moment. No input from reps at all and some really aggressive posts that are almost certainly bullying and harassment. We've even got idiots calling for a "Sickday on 30th" and "I tell you, I'll blow a slide the day I leave BA" and "I'll see BA go down before I accept these changes". Truly pathetic. Don't these idiots realise that their posts can become part of the evidence to be used against them. It's anonymous now but it sure won't be if things end up in court - ask BALPA re Openskies.
So no-one who wants a reasonable solution posts there, the only voices are those who want to strike and they believe their own hype. FWIW, not ONE of my friends will strike. Not one. They are all disgusted with BASSA. And the support back at Gatwick is almost non-existent. In fact, there's even an air of "they'll get what's been coming to them"
And the best posts on the BASSA forum? "I won't work for this kind of money"
Hmm, but it has been ok for Gatwick crew to work that hard and earn that much??? We reap what we sow.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Nutjob,
My wife'll be crossing the picket line with you. Funnily enough she left BASSA because of the vitriol and militancy, a decision she, personally, has never regretted. Good on you for standing up and saying what you think, some people won't brook any dissent from the orthodoxy.
Secondly, and much more pertinent in the macro sense, posters on any forum should be acutely aware of the call a court can make on all communication and information in the event of a legally challenged dispute. All of BALPA's electronic comms were demanded by the opposing side and backed up by court instruction during the OS dispute. Truthfully, if you're anti the BA proposal (or indeed, the BASSA one for that matter), by all means express your displeasure but people should be aware that comments threatening criminal damage, being personally libellous, breaching contract of employment or whatever may well come back to haunt in a very real and meaningful way.
My wife'll be crossing the picket line with you. Funnily enough she left BASSA because of the vitriol and militancy, a decision she, personally, has never regretted. Good on you for standing up and saying what you think, some people won't brook any dissent from the orthodoxy.
Secondly, and much more pertinent in the macro sense, posters on any forum should be acutely aware of the call a court can make on all communication and information in the event of a legally challenged dispute. All of BALPA's electronic comms were demanded by the opposing side and backed up by court instruction during the OS dispute. Truthfully, if you're anti the BA proposal (or indeed, the BASSA one for that matter), by all means express your displeasure but people should be aware that comments threatening criminal damage, being personally libellous, breaching contract of employment or whatever may well come back to haunt in a very real and meaningful way.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to add to Mr Bunkers comments, when you log into any 'chat forum' be it Pprune, BASSA or Crew Forum the owners are required to log your IP address with each post you make.
Thus the nightmare scenario of being called forward for comments made on an 'anonymous' forum are all too real as the ISP's are required by law to relinquish the IP address holders account details to the police.
This info is not pointing at anyone just an addition to MrBunkers very good advice above.
Tread carefully!
Thus the nightmare scenario of being called forward for comments made on an 'anonymous' forum are all too real as the ISP's are required by law to relinquish the IP address holders account details to the police.
This info is not pointing at anyone just an addition to MrBunkers very good advice above.
Tread carefully!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: london
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PiB
I don't think BA management care as long as they get the savings, I have predicted all along that BA will move some more and BASSA will be able to claim victory, lets hope I am right.
Figures shown to me last week show that if EFLHR were to adopt LGW style rostering(shorthaul matrix) then they would be 35-40% over crewed.
BA management have painted themselves into a corner by raising the bar so high, that even the merest concession by them will still leave a massive void. So any further ground given by BA mnagement will be seen as a climbdown and a loss of face by them.
Figures shown to me last week show that if EFLHR were to adopt LGW style rostering(shorthaul matrix) then they would be 35-40% over crewed.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Head if IFCE stating that if BASSA's savings had added up to their claimed amount he'd have taken it. "Why wouldn't I?", to quote him. Surely now would be the time for both sides to put their proposals, with costings into the public domain and allow the affected parties to make informed, adult judgements about them? Headline figures equate to little more than willy waving and benefit about as much.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: london
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA Hit As Premium Flyers Continue To Flee
From Sky News -
British Airways Suffers From Flight Of First And Business Class Passengers As Premium Traffic Dives | Business | Sky News
British Airways Suffers From Flight Of First And Business Class Passengers As Premium Traffic Dives | Business | Sky News
Beleaguered carrier British Airways was hit by a 14.9% drop in first- and business-class passengers in June compared to the same month last year.
Overall the airline carried almost 5% fewer passengers last month than in June 2008, its latest figures revealed.
A total of 2.93 million people travelled on BA scheduled services in June 2009 - a 4.9% fall on the same month last year.
Passenger numbers in Europe fell 4.3%, but this decline was dwarfed by the 16.8% drop-off in Asia Pacific traffic.
But most alarming is the ongoing slump in premium traffic - a decline that contributed to a £401m loss for the last year.
BA said: "Market conditions continue to be very challenging with trading at levels well below last year.
"However on an underlying basis both premium and non-premium volumes and seat factors have now been stable for more than three months."
The airline cut the equivalent of 2,500 full-time positions between June 2008 and March this year, and is looking to cut 3,700 more in 2009/10.
It announced last month that 2,000 of those posts would be slashed from its cabin crew.
Earlier this week it called in conciliation group Acas to help it in pay negotiations with unions.
It is feared that BA staff will strike next month if a deal cannot be agreed.
Meanwhile, low-fare airline Ryanair announced today that it carried 5.84 million passengers in June 2009 - a 13% increase on its June 2008 total.
Ryanair planes flew 85% full last month compared with 84% full in June 2008.
Overall the airline carried almost 5% fewer passengers last month than in June 2008, its latest figures revealed.
A total of 2.93 million people travelled on BA scheduled services in June 2009 - a 4.9% fall on the same month last year.
Passenger numbers in Europe fell 4.3%, but this decline was dwarfed by the 16.8% drop-off in Asia Pacific traffic.
But most alarming is the ongoing slump in premium traffic - a decline that contributed to a £401m loss for the last year.
BA said: "Market conditions continue to be very challenging with trading at levels well below last year.
"However on an underlying basis both premium and non-premium volumes and seat factors have now been stable for more than three months."
The airline cut the equivalent of 2,500 full-time positions between June 2008 and March this year, and is looking to cut 3,700 more in 2009/10.
It announced last month that 2,000 of those posts would be slashed from its cabin crew.
Earlier this week it called in conciliation group Acas to help it in pay negotiations with unions.
It is feared that BA staff will strike next month if a deal cannot be agreed.
Meanwhile, low-fare airline Ryanair announced today that it carried 5.84 million passengers in June 2009 - a 13% increase on its June 2008 total.
Ryanair planes flew 85% full last month compared with 84% full in June 2008.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From PiB
Having read what's posted on Bassa and CF forums it seems that a huge part of Bassa's argument is that BA's management are incompetent. They have little to say on facts but repeatedly spout the fines, T5 and fuel hedging policy as examples of this lack of managerial competence.
PiB does the same above.
Yet what I cannot understand is what relevance this has to Bassa's negotiations on pay and working practices. Is the argument that the managers are so inept that they are not worth negotiating with? Or is the idea to point out these things so that shareholders will say "You know Bassa, you're absolutely right, we'll ditch the Board and the CEO right now"?
We, as employees, have no influence over who manages us, just as we have no influence over the make of aircraft the company buys, we have to work with what we have.
Constantly banging on about your opinions of Walsh himself doesn't serve your argument in any way. Please explain why it's relevant to your negotiations on pay and conditions.
Now we witness once more idiotic BA management trying to justify their positions by cutting product that will reduce the service to our customers like chocolates withdrawn in First and no hot towels in Club Europe. Some aircraft have run out ot fresh water in flight due to aircraft departing with less than full tanks to save weight.
More damage has been done to the prestige of British Airways by the activities of its CEO and senior managers.
More damage has been done to the prestige of British Airways by the activities of its CEO and senior managers.
PiB does the same above.
Yet what I cannot understand is what relevance this has to Bassa's negotiations on pay and working practices. Is the argument that the managers are so inept that they are not worth negotiating with? Or is the idea to point out these things so that shareholders will say "You know Bassa, you're absolutely right, we'll ditch the Board and the CEO right now"?
We, as employees, have no influence over who manages us, just as we have no influence over the make of aircraft the company buys, we have to work with what we have.
Constantly banging on about your opinions of Walsh himself doesn't serve your argument in any way. Please explain why it's relevant to your negotiations on pay and conditions.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
May as well let BASSA run the company!
Oh, sorry they think they do already anyway!
Apparently, due to the drastic mismanagement of the company the Cabin Crew shouldn't need to change with the times. Everybody else should. The reason, oh yes, .... the reason ..... umm can't find one, it's just because BASSA says so.
Wonderful.
Quiet summer again then, that'll help.
Oh, sorry they think they do already anyway!
Apparently, due to the drastic mismanagement of the company the Cabin Crew shouldn't need to change with the times. Everybody else should. The reason, oh yes, .... the reason ..... umm can't find one, it's just because BASSA says so.
Wonderful.
Quiet summer again then, that'll help.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carnage: Flights are leaving on sectors up to ten hours duration with 75% fresh water in the tanks. Didn't you know?
If you consider it a problem, just pop up to see the pilots and ask if more water can be loaded for that sector. It's rarely a problem as long as there are no weight/performance issues.
See? A problem shared is a problem solved.
Now go and pop that back on the Bassa forum - if you dare!
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Virgin Atlantic Flirts With Jobs Cull - GLG News
Worth a read.
Worth a read.
Another Summer Of Discontent At British Airways? - GLG News
PPRuNe Person
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: see roster
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And Henley Regatta up to the 5th. BASSA meeting on the 6th get the important stuff out of the way first!
At least BA's dive in premium numbers is way less than VS's
get the important stuff out of the way first!At least BA's dive in premium numbers is way less than VS's
Join Date: May 2003
Location: london
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This last paragraph is telling.
Given the relative “lack of teeth” that ACAS actually has, if British Airways walks away from talks, staff will seethe at their union leaders for not getting a better deal – of course, the truth is that these union leaders don’t always represent the wishes of those they claim to be standing up for and will only have themselves to blame when mutiny hits home as British Airways runs out of money to pay for their whimsical demands.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speaking with Virgin staff today, they were telling me that they are on course to match BA's loss of 400 million this year. I'm sure the wooly pully will massgae and hide the figures cometh the time to look better than BA. I haven't heard any of them say that geting rid of their top managers will solve the economic crisis though !