British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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They also tried to run an operation over the weekend but had to canx flights because of crew going sick for different reasons.
London Pride
Lions test
Wimbledon final
Henley Regatta
Madonna concert
Take That concert
Sunshine Sickness!
From CC News, last year that BA plan on approx 550 absentees on a normal day (no shows, sick, maternity etc). Over peak times such as this, they see in excess of 850
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I saw this apt quote from the Economist, June 4th 2009:
Blue-collar workers bear much of the responsibility for their own fate. This is particularly true in the car industry, which tended to set the pattern for much of the rest of the American economy. Trade unions frequently hampered their industries with rules that blocked more flexible and productivity-boosting manufacturing techniques (the United Auto Workers’ book of work rules ran to 5,000 pages). They also imposed unsustainable costs on their industries. In 1970 400,000 car workers—one in every 200 workers in America—went on strike for two months in order to wring job-destroying concessions out of GM. John Updike’s Harry Angstrom passed a hard verdict on this sort of self-indulgence in “Rabbit is Rich”: “Seems funny to say it, but I’m glad I lived when I did. These kids coming up, they’ll be living on table scraps. We had the meal.”
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Does anyone know if there are even any more meetings between BASSA and BA scheduled ?
Correct me if I'm wrong (sure someone will) but I get the impression it was the non BASSA unions/staff that were close to agreement and ACAS were called to iron out the creases with those negotiations. Hence the "may" statement by BA.
Not sure BASSA will get offered another bite of the apple to even ask ACAS if there is a worm in it first.
Correct me if I'm wrong (sure someone will) but I get the impression it was the non BASSA unions/staff that were close to agreement and ACAS were called to iron out the creases with those negotiations. Hence the "may" statement by BA.
Not sure BASSA will get offered another bite of the apple to even ask ACAS if there is a worm in it first.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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"At least they were trying to! They also tried to run an operation over the weekend but had to canx flights because of crew going sick for different reasons"
Yep, BA215 BOS was cancelled due lack of Crew. Social sickness apparently...
Yep, BA215 BOS was cancelled due lack of Crew. Social sickness apparently...
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nuigini
Oh my heart bleeds come down to the real world 10 days off a month think yourself lucky dear. My husband is a funeral director and can get called out up to three times in a night but still manages to do a full days work without a day off before hand. The way i see it is you have been milking the system for too long and now that times are hard and things need to be changed you go crying to the Union. To quote my father If you don't like the job get another. I am flying with BA on the 27th July and god help you lot if you ruin my holiday by your stupidity. I suggest that anyone who goes on strike gets the sack that will sort out the man from the boys.
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The BA179 LHR-JFK/BA182 JFK-LHR was also cancelled due lack of crew. Regardless of booked loads we are a scheduled airline and should run services based on said schedule. Just because the BA215 load was poor doesn't mean the inbound load was the same. One last point, don't forget the freight, regularly we load 10-15 Tonnes of freight on these flights (which happens to pay quite well).
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Bongodog, instead of spouting off without turning on the old brain, I suggest you read the thread before posting again.
Nuigini being one of the posters who consistently has pleaded for BASSA to take a reality check, for BA CC to negotiate in a manner consistent with the current world wide economic crisis & downturn in pax loads on most/all airlines.
He/she is the last person deserving your venomous nonsense.
As to your husband´s line of work; good for him. A sensitive trade that requires great tact and dedication. (why not take a leaf out of his book on the tact front?). His working hours are no doubt as described by you, and quoting your father, he could change trades if he were so inclined. On the whole, your husband´s job, however arduous and praiseworthy, is utterly irrelevant to this thread.
Oh and Bongodog, like your holiday, our family holiday trip celebrating my parents 50th wedding anniversary is booked with BA, and I am becoming rather anxious about it.
Unlike you, I don´t think that threatening people on an anonymous internet forum is the way to deal with that anxiety.
Suggest you take a deep breath, remember your manners and realize that PPRuNe has and enforces certain minimum standards for on-line behaviour and output.
Nuigini being one of the posters who consistently has pleaded for BASSA to take a reality check, for BA CC to negotiate in a manner consistent with the current world wide economic crisis & downturn in pax loads on most/all airlines.
He/she is the last person deserving your venomous nonsense.
As to your husband´s line of work; good for him. A sensitive trade that requires great tact and dedication. (why not take a leaf out of his book on the tact front?). His working hours are no doubt as described by you, and quoting your father, he could change trades if he were so inclined. On the whole, your husband´s job, however arduous and praiseworthy, is utterly irrelevant to this thread.
Oh and Bongodog, like your holiday, our family holiday trip celebrating my parents 50th wedding anniversary is booked with BA, and I am becoming rather anxious about it.
Unlike you, I don´t think that threatening people on an anonymous internet forum is the way to deal with that anxiety.
Suggest you take a deep breath, remember your manners and realize that PPRuNe has and enforces certain minimum standards for on-line behaviour and output.
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All this talk about sickness, does BA not have an effective attendance management programme?
Instead of paying people more money for a job they are already being paid to do,
Keep records, arrange meeting, if a pattern emerges and no improvement then get rid, that would solve the required staff reduction.
Instead of paying people more money for a job they are already being paid to do,
Keep records, arrange meeting, if a pattern emerges and no improvement then get rid, that would solve the required staff reduction.
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No doubt this will cause a stir!!!
Well guess it was no surprise that Unite/Bassa and its members would reject the proposal put forward by BA at the meeting held today. I think this was a foregone conclusion even before the meeting took place! As I read through the story on the BB news website as well as being an avid follower of all the posts on here and alot of the other "facts" that have been published regarding both proposals how much is fact and how much is fiction. So many varying figures it almost hard to see through the "smoke" what is actually going on. A couple of examples.....
1) The number of redundancies/job cuts ranging from 2000 to 5000 depending on who is "speaking.... Ironic though that with the initial 2000 job cuts required over 3000 BA staff/crew showed interest in voluntary redundancy!!
2) Unite/Bassa proposal talked about saving around £173 million. This is now between £100m and £130m. That seems to be a big difference even for someone without a maths degree or a calculator. Worst case scenario how can the savings suddenly be down by £73million. Doesn't really add up.
3) 2000 cabin crew vote to dismiss the BA proposal. I wonder what the other 12,000 think!. Guess their views don't count.
4) How many of those people that voted to dismiss the proposal have the most to lose?
I write this not as an employee of British Airways or a member of Unite/Bassa but as someone whose partner works for BA, who has a number of friends working for BA and someone who has spent the past few months listening to speculation, rumour, scare mongering all of which serves no purpose whatsoever. Times are hard for everyone, everywhere in the world. A whole variety of businesses are cutting costs, cutting staff, finding ways to save money. Not all of them are popular. Nothing wrong with an element of flexibility and compromise. After all what is the better outcome - keeping a job (after FAIR and JUST compromise or no job? I can already hear the comments that this post may trigger. One only has to visit other discussion forums run by both BA and Unite/Bassa to see the strength of feeling on this topic. I hope for everyone’s sake a mutually agreeable solution can be found but it does take give and take on BOTH sides.
1) The number of redundancies/job cuts ranging from 2000 to 5000 depending on who is "speaking.... Ironic though that with the initial 2000 job cuts required over 3000 BA staff/crew showed interest in voluntary redundancy!!
2) Unite/Bassa proposal talked about saving around £173 million. This is now between £100m and £130m. That seems to be a big difference even for someone without a maths degree or a calculator. Worst case scenario how can the savings suddenly be down by £73million. Doesn't really add up.
3) 2000 cabin crew vote to dismiss the BA proposal. I wonder what the other 12,000 think!. Guess their views don't count.
4) How many of those people that voted to dismiss the proposal have the most to lose?
I write this not as an employee of British Airways or a member of Unite/Bassa but as someone whose partner works for BA, who has a number of friends working for BA and someone who has spent the past few months listening to speculation, rumour, scare mongering all of which serves no purpose whatsoever. Times are hard for everyone, everywhere in the world. A whole variety of businesses are cutting costs, cutting staff, finding ways to save money. Not all of them are popular. Nothing wrong with an element of flexibility and compromise. After all what is the better outcome - keeping a job (after FAIR and JUST compromise or no job? I can already hear the comments that this post may trigger. One only has to visit other discussion forums run by both BA and Unite/Bassa to see the strength of feeling on this topic. I hope for everyone’s sake a mutually agreeable solution can be found but it does take give and take on BOTH sides.
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Bongodog
What a disgusting, selfish and totally ignorant thing to say to a group of dedicated employees who sacrifice so much in their personal lives to continue doing their job. Only the uneducated seem to spout remarks of "if you dont like it get another job"!
Well dear, I hope with tact like that you dont work too much with your husband!
I am flying with BA on the 27th July and god help you lot if you ruin my holiday by your stupidity. I suggest that anyone who goes on strike gets the sack that will sort out the man from the boys.
What a disgusting, selfish and totally ignorant thing to say to a group of dedicated employees who sacrifice so much in their personal lives to continue doing their job. Only the uneducated seem to spout remarks of "if you dont like it get another job"!
Well dear, I hope with tact like that you dont work too much with your husband!
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sevenforeseven shares can go UP and they can go DOWN and can be come worthless as did my Bradford & Bingley shares. Did your investment advisor not tell you this? Shares are a risk. If you don`t like risk bank or Building society.
Now on your flight should you be ill, or have a heart problem do you want me standing there with tea pots or a defib/first aid kit? You choose?
Isn`t it amazing should workers stand up for the T&C`s and paid its so wrong?
No strike has been called!
Now on your flight should you be ill, or have a heart problem do you want me standing there with tea pots or a defib/first aid kit? You choose?
Isn`t it amazing should workers stand up for the T&C`s and paid its so wrong?
No strike has been called!
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I'm afraid that you won't get much sympathy in the outside world.
In my company (still teetering on the brink) we have had to let people go, 600plus have gone, and thats not the end of it.
Why do you think that BA is immune from this? striking will not reduce the redundancies, rather increase them as people go to other airlines (which have also had to make redundancies) and your yeilds get lower again.
The hint as the press are doing currently of industrial action will make people (who are also worried about their jobs by the way!) take a long hard look at booking with you.
Its time to get into the real world, sorry, but we are all suffering in all industries. You will in the press look like pampered selfish children if you strike.
In my company (still teetering on the brink) we have had to let people go, 600plus have gone, and thats not the end of it.
Why do you think that BA is immune from this? striking will not reduce the redundancies, rather increase them as people go to other airlines (which have also had to make redundancies) and your yeilds get lower again.
The hint as the press are doing currently of industrial action will make people (who are also worried about their jobs by the way!) take a long hard look at booking with you.
Its time to get into the real world, sorry, but we are all suffering in all industries. You will in the press look like pampered selfish children if you strike.
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Bongodog1964
Am I milking the system?
If you would actually bother to read what I have written you would see that I don't go crying to the union. I'm wishing the union would negotiate properly as this is becoming a really nasty dispute and I, amongst many surely, am fearing for my job and future. I love my job and I am willing to accept changes in our terms and conditions to save the company and many jobs. I have been saying this for a very long time and I can't actually believe why you claim that I'm both milking the system and go crying to the union when things are hard and need to be changed.
They can scrape the Early Report Day (day off for early duty) because it won't really affect us that much. It's only given to three flights.
I can live without the Telephone Allowance.
I can live with working with less crew. You come to work to work after all.
I can live with working with fewer PSR's onboard. It would mean less for our PSR's which would be really sad for them.
The disruption agreement with two local nights after a diversion also calls to be changed. It affects our customers who are paying our pay check. Most of the crew want to go home anyway.
Pay freeze is something we would also have to agree to because our union threw it out on the negotiating table WITHOUT even BA asking for it.
Replacing allowances with a monthly duty payment could be to our benefit. No figures have been officially announced except BASSA saying they have been given the figures from BA which is £300. Again, this is also something that could be negotiated and it would benefit certain destinations with a lot of "no shows" and "charity trips". Crew moaning over only getting nightstops in India and America would benefit from it.
10 days off can also be negotiated but most non-flying people come home after a working day. Full-time people who work Monday through Friday would actually have 8 days off (Saturday and Sunday) per 28 days. Last month I spent a whole 9 days at home as I was out on trips for 21 days.
I would accept having one night downroute in LAX or SIN but in terms of only being allowed to fly 900 block hours per year, which not only applies to BA but most airlines, crew would reach it very quickly and be grounded until hours have come down. In that perspective I think the union should negotitate by actually refering to the law and show that we would hit 900 hours very quickly. I'm full-time crew and my hours are now floating around 870. How high do you think they would be if we only had nighstops and for how long we would be grounded?
BA has announced 2000 HCE, which would be anything between two and four thousand ACTUAL people will lose their jobs. I'm not voting for a strike as I'm still hoping that they will reach a solution as I fear it will affect many innocent crew who are actually willing to change their terms and conditions to save jobs. I have been with BA for nearly nine years and been sick for a total of five days and I hope they will take it into consideration if it comes to compulsory redudancies. But, I'm crossing my fingers it wouldn't have to go that far and those crew wishing to leave would do so on their own initiative.
I wouldn't worry about your holiday on the 27th this month because if they were to call for a strike it will take a lot longer than that. I will still be coming to work.
If you still believe I'm personally milking the system, I rest my case.
Am I milking the system?
If you would actually bother to read what I have written you would see that I don't go crying to the union. I'm wishing the union would negotiate properly as this is becoming a really nasty dispute and I, amongst many surely, am fearing for my job and future. I love my job and I am willing to accept changes in our terms and conditions to save the company and many jobs. I have been saying this for a very long time and I can't actually believe why you claim that I'm both milking the system and go crying to the union when things are hard and need to be changed.
They can scrape the Early Report Day (day off for early duty) because it won't really affect us that much. It's only given to three flights.
I can live without the Telephone Allowance.
I can live with working with less crew. You come to work to work after all.
I can live with working with fewer PSR's onboard. It would mean less for our PSR's which would be really sad for them.
The disruption agreement with two local nights after a diversion also calls to be changed. It affects our customers who are paying our pay check. Most of the crew want to go home anyway.
Pay freeze is something we would also have to agree to because our union threw it out on the negotiating table WITHOUT even BA asking for it.
Replacing allowances with a monthly duty payment could be to our benefit. No figures have been officially announced except BASSA saying they have been given the figures from BA which is £300. Again, this is also something that could be negotiated and it would benefit certain destinations with a lot of "no shows" and "charity trips". Crew moaning over only getting nightstops in India and America would benefit from it.
10 days off can also be negotiated but most non-flying people come home after a working day. Full-time people who work Monday through Friday would actually have 8 days off (Saturday and Sunday) per 28 days. Last month I spent a whole 9 days at home as I was out on trips for 21 days.
I would accept having one night downroute in LAX or SIN but in terms of only being allowed to fly 900 block hours per year, which not only applies to BA but most airlines, crew would reach it very quickly and be grounded until hours have come down. In that perspective I think the union should negotitate by actually refering to the law and show that we would hit 900 hours very quickly. I'm full-time crew and my hours are now floating around 870. How high do you think they would be if we only had nighstops and for how long we would be grounded?
BA has announced 2000 HCE, which would be anything between two and four thousand ACTUAL people will lose their jobs. I'm not voting for a strike as I'm still hoping that they will reach a solution as I fear it will affect many innocent crew who are actually willing to change their terms and conditions to save jobs. I have been with BA for nearly nine years and been sick for a total of five days and I hope they will take it into consideration if it comes to compulsory redudancies. But, I'm crossing my fingers it wouldn't have to go that far and those crew wishing to leave would do so on their own initiative.
I wouldn't worry about your holiday on the 27th this month because if they were to call for a strike it will take a lot longer than that. I will still be coming to work.
If you still believe I'm personally milking the system, I rest my case.
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I am full time long haul BA crew, based at LHR.
I have 5 years experience, earn my post-1997 contract salary, plus the agreed flying allowances. I own a small 2 bed flat (big mortgage), in a modest area. I drive a 5 year old Vauxhall and eat what I buy in Tesco. At the end of the month, I can sometimes put a few quid into savings.
I do not live a life of luxury, why should I give any of my money up? If BA impose the changes they want, I won't be able to afford even my modest home and lifestyle.
Why should I give up my terms and conditions? I am longhaul crew, I spend my whole life knackered as it is (despite being in my 20s!). I can only imagine what Hong Kong and Singapore nightstops would do to my body. I give up huge amounts of time to BA and think I should be compensated accordingly. The nice hotels and occasional desirable locations don't make up for the fact that I'm not in my own home, can't meet my mates for a pint, can't phone anyone without paying a fortune, can't watch my own TV etc, or do any of the things that 9-5 workers take for granted. I can't even go to a mate's wedding or a concert unless I know about it 9 months in advance and bid for leave!
I am told that I have to give up even more to keep my employer running, yet they're splashing out a fortune on business class airlines to the USA (despite the recent failings of just about every similar carrier!), hundreds of millions of fines for illegal activities and throwing away potential customers due to constant incompetence.
Am I behind my union? YES
Why shouldn't I be?
I have 5 years experience, earn my post-1997 contract salary, plus the agreed flying allowances. I own a small 2 bed flat (big mortgage), in a modest area. I drive a 5 year old Vauxhall and eat what I buy in Tesco. At the end of the month, I can sometimes put a few quid into savings.
I do not live a life of luxury, why should I give any of my money up? If BA impose the changes they want, I won't be able to afford even my modest home and lifestyle.
Why should I give up my terms and conditions? I am longhaul crew, I spend my whole life knackered as it is (despite being in my 20s!). I can only imagine what Hong Kong and Singapore nightstops would do to my body. I give up huge amounts of time to BA and think I should be compensated accordingly. The nice hotels and occasional desirable locations don't make up for the fact that I'm not in my own home, can't meet my mates for a pint, can't phone anyone without paying a fortune, can't watch my own TV etc, or do any of the things that 9-5 workers take for granted. I can't even go to a mate's wedding or a concert unless I know about it 9 months in advance and bid for leave!
I am told that I have to give up even more to keep my employer running, yet they're splashing out a fortune on business class airlines to the USA (despite the recent failings of just about every similar carrier!), hundreds of millions of fines for illegal activities and throwing away potential customers due to constant incompetence.
Am I behind my union? YES
Why shouldn't I be?
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dns similar situation as you.. although 9 years and first time be able to live a little more comfortably. ie no nightstopping and I do all the more unpopular there and backs as I get roster stablity.
I`ve worked for other airlines and not proud to say when with BM back in the 1980`s I lived with grandparents on state pension in London as based at LHR. I had to live off them, the money was so bad. No I didn`t go out on Sat nights clubbing it.
I`ve worked for other airlines and not proud to say when with BM back in the 1980`s I lived with grandparents on state pension in London as based at LHR. I had to live off them, the money was so bad. No I didn`t go out on Sat nights clubbing it.