Virgin Blue EBA
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Well, I have now read the eba 12 times from start to finish. Im convinced that its not really in anyones best interest including the companyn to implement this proposal. I envisage that 6 months after ( if it is accepted) there will be many aircraft sitting on the tarmac with out crew to crew them as they would have quit due to exhaustion and sheer dislike for the company. I am amazed that how many pilots (respected opinions) have said that this proposed eba is worse off than the flight crew eba.
I think we may beat that 87% no vote with 90%.
The biggest thing is that we all need to vote, either YES or NO, we all need to vote to get the message through.
Kittyblue now will not post anymore until April when the results are in.
Good luck and see you on the other side.
Kb
I think we may beat that 87% no vote with 90%.
The biggest thing is that we all need to vote, either YES or NO, we all need to vote to get the message through.
Kittyblue now will not post anymore until April when the results are in.
Good luck and see you on the other side.
Kb
Join Date: Nov 2002
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roadshows
off course its not as bad !....afterall that's what roadshows are designed to do ...they are otherwise known as "pro shows".Do you think they spent all that money making a DVD on the eba for nothing?
careful thinking and intelligent analysis of the facts is always a good thing
careful thinking and intelligent analysis of the facts is always a good thing
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Read and "Red" again.
I'm a newbie to this forum, but hi y'all - it's great there's some out there that care about this EBA as much as I do.
For reasons previously stated by others in this forum, I agree this EBA isn't so great. I've yet to attend a roadshow (next week) but I'm open to what they have to say. I plan my vote to be an educated one. However, I'm sure it will be positive spins on everthing I believe to be not so great in this EBA- just like in the "new to Faq's" letter I recieved in the mail today. It's all so glossy I almost want to change my vote to yes! I would love for this EBA to be all that, but when I re-read the actual EBA and am reminded that it's not.
Part time is a cruncher for me - I need it but not at the great expense of conditions and work rules. And in the words of our DM's - any Part time allocated after EBA is signed through is only temporary -to be revised after the first 12months! They insist they've taken out all the grey area's but instead they've camoflaged them print in pretty pictures, too many words and best case scenario's!
Of course one could base your vote by just flicking through the easy-reading 2-page EBA highlights document whilst relaxing watching the "DVD"- and save your self 3 hours of reading of the real thing... a sure fire way to a yes majority!
For reasons previously stated by others in this forum, I agree this EBA isn't so great. I've yet to attend a roadshow (next week) but I'm open to what they have to say. I plan my vote to be an educated one. However, I'm sure it will be positive spins on everthing I believe to be not so great in this EBA- just like in the "new to Faq's" letter I recieved in the mail today. It's all so glossy I almost want to change my vote to yes! I would love for this EBA to be all that, but when I re-read the actual EBA and am reminded that it's not.
Part time is a cruncher for me - I need it but not at the great expense of conditions and work rules. And in the words of our DM's - any Part time allocated after EBA is signed through is only temporary -to be revised after the first 12months! They insist they've taken out all the grey area's but instead they've camoflaged them print in pretty pictures, too many words and best case scenario's!
Of course one could base your vote by just flicking through the easy-reading 2-page EBA highlights document whilst relaxing watching the "DVD"- and save your self 3 hours of reading of the real thing... a sure fire way to a yes majority!
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Hey guys, hate to say this, but Ol_shep is right on the money. I have spoken to several people about this Workchoices and they have all said the same thing. If this EBA is not passed then we may be heading down the road of a Workplace agreement and it can and possibly be worse than what is on the table and we wont be able to negotiate. I am still trying to obtain more information on it via the Workchoices website. Seriously consider how your future can be effected. All I say is I don't want it to be any worse than what we have been provided with. And if you read the FAQ's that were received yesterday, Q3 states that we legally dont have a right to a second chance to vote and we may end up with a WPA that is definitely not favourable and our current EBA could be rescinded. Lots of food for thought people. I certainly dont want to have considerably less than we have right now.
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As our last EBA was negotiated under the old industrial laws, they cannot force us to sign a AWA. Our old EBA conditions will apply until replaced. Once, we've signed a new one, we then operate under Workchoices, and next time round, we can then be forced onto AWAs.
If you are not going to read the entire document, then at least look at these sections - Section 3.1 (last paragraph) Section 4.1.1 (b & c), Section 6.11 (h & i).
Why do you think that we got the glossy document, 2-page summary and propaganda DVD?? No one else in the company did. Perhaps they think we are too stupid to really look at what is being offered and will just be swayed into voting yes by all the pretty colours. Let's not prove them right...
If you are not going to read the entire document, then at least look at these sections - Section 3.1 (last paragraph) Section 4.1.1 (b & c), Section 6.11 (h & i).
Why do you think that we got the glossy document, 2-page summary and propaganda DVD?? No one else in the company did. Perhaps they think we are too stupid to really look at what is being offered and will just be swayed into voting yes by all the pretty colours. Let's not prove them right...
Last edited by avery; 16th Mar 2007 at 11:48. Reason: Typo Error
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another concern...
Avery- Here, here! 
Sometimes I wonder who might be reading and writing in this forum, particularly those stating basicly, this is as good as we're going to get, and to be careful (as in- don't vote no) as you'll be on AWA's before you know it. Sounds like management if you ask me! I re-read your points made and I agree, (although 6.1.1 - I couldn't find, am I missing a page or was that a typo? ) and every time I read over the doc I find something else lurking in the background to take advantage of the fact that alot of crew will just "gloss" over thier glossy document!
In regards to changes to sick leave- this is quoted from the FAAA update #23 explanatory notes:
1.What is supporting documentation?
A medical certificate from a health practitioner registered or licensed under a state or territory law. A registered health practitioner can only issue a medical certificate in respect of the area of practice in which that practitioner is registered or licensed. If it is not reasonably practicable for you to obtain a medical certificate for a period of sick leave, then a statutory declaration may be provided. For example, a statutory declaration could be provided where you are unable to make an appointment with their medical practitioner on a particular day.
Does this mean we are required to see thier doctors only to aquire a medical certificate if we're sick? hmmm....
Sometimes I wonder who might be reading and writing in this forum, particularly those stating basicly, this is as good as we're going to get, and to be careful (as in- don't vote no) as you'll be on AWA's before you know it. Sounds like management if you ask me! I re-read your points made and I agree, (although 6.1.1 - I couldn't find, am I missing a page or was that a typo? ) and every time I read over the doc I find something else lurking in the background to take advantage of the fact that alot of crew will just "gloss" over thier glossy document! In regards to changes to sick leave- this is quoted from the FAAA update #23 explanatory notes:
1.What is supporting documentation?
A medical certificate from a health practitioner registered or licensed under a state or territory law. A registered health practitioner can only issue a medical certificate in respect of the area of practice in which that practitioner is registered or licensed. If it is not reasonably practicable for you to obtain a medical certificate for a period of sick leave, then a statutory declaration may be provided. For example, a statutory declaration could be provided where you are unable to make an appointment with their medical practitioner on a particular day.
Does this mean we are required to see thier doctors only to aquire a medical certificate if we're sick? hmmm....
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Get advice from the experts, even if you have to pay for it
Thanks ccguy. And no, I'm not management. I have been through various EBAs and AWAs personally, so wanted to pass on what knowledge I have gathered along the way, from experts on the law.
At this stage the law says, you can't be coerced on to AWAs. Your last EBA has expired and how long before you will be offered an AWA is anyone's guess, depends how many vote it down I suspect-if it's a resounding NO towards the company and the union, then I guess it will be fairly soon after the vote. Under the old laws there was a "no disadvantage test" which protected you from going no lower than a similar Award. That's gone under the new laws. If you refuse to sign an AWA offered, then there is no Award or no disadvantage test that can save you, you automatically only have the federal minimum as a safety net-$511 a week, no overtime penalties, 10 days sick leave, 5 weeks annual leave, 52 weeks unpaid parental leave, average 38hrs a week-th'th'that's all folks!! 5 things is all that has to be in an Agreement! (for professional staff, the $511 a week doesn't apply but everything else does) That's right-no such things as part time, roster requests, paid mat. leave, 140hrs max. a month, minimum rest between flights, roster stability etc. etc. At least for some of our work conditions CASA looks after pilots, but for Flight Attendants this has been protected for years by Awards which the FAAA fought for. All that work that unions achieved, has been overturned by the new laws-the Awards are now worthless with the no disadvantage test gone!
If you return to your last EBA, what are you going to do about pay increases? You have to trade to get increases on an EBA. You only get CPI if you go all the way downhill to the federal minimum.
The law protects you here. You even seem to be mistrusting that your union has got it wrong. The unions are the ones who've managed to protect you from working more than 140hrs a month and 21 days a year sick leave for about 20 years, maybe longer I'm not sure. Why do you suddenly not trust them? Well from what I've read, they've got it right, you can read it for yourselves on www.workchoices.gov.au Employee Fact Sheet on Personal Leave/Carer's Leave.
Make sure you get advice from experts to protect yourself, I did, especially if you don't trust anyone. If you can't afford to pay, then ring the Fair Go Hotline for free.
As our last EBA was negotiated under the old industrial laws, they cannot force us to sign a AWA. Our old EBA conditions will apply until replaced. Once, we've signed a new one, we then operate under Workchoices, and next time round, we can then be forced onto AWAs.
If you return to your last EBA, what are you going to do about pay increases? You have to trade to get increases on an EBA. You only get CPI if you go all the way downhill to the federal minimum.
Does this mean we are required to see thier doctors only to aquire a medical certificate if we're sick? hmmm....
Make sure you get advice from experts to protect yourself, I did, especially if you don't trust anyone. If you can't afford to pay, then ring the Fair Go Hotline for free.
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HI Guys,
I have now been to one of the forums and believe I have a much better understanding of this proposed EBA. I see how certain decisions were made in regards to where we lost on a condition or gained on a condition. It really is a big balancing act.
Taking into account that we are all adults, and are happy to look at both sides of the picture I would like you encourage you to look at the EBA over the next few days and post what you DO and DON'T like about the proposal.
I am sure that we all have different needs so ensuring that we make the most informed decision is of a high priority. I would hate to think that I have misinterpreted a condition and voted the wrong way because of it.
Positive- the Cabin Crew Consultative Committee- These guys will meet to rectify any issues that arise out of this EBA. If something is not safe, being interpreted many different ways or not implemented the way it was intended the CCC will work at fixing it.
Negative- We now pay for our passport and visa costs- however we can retrieve part of the cost as a tax deduction. I also figure that if I was negotiating this EBA this would be one of the first things I would be willing to trade for something better.
Negative- the company has the right to Transfer us between bases. Remember that this is not a new clause (old EBA part 18) although it is a little scary. I can take comfort in the fact that this is a very costly exercise for the company so wouldn't be done just for the fun of it. And I have to trust that they would ask for volunteers first because they would lose quite a few crew members if they didn't.
Negative - Maximum term Cabin Crew- look at Qantas - scary.
- mixed- I was told personally by one of our FAAA reps (about 6months ago) that CS's would be getting quite a good pay rise so I was disappointed not to see that. However on the up side it is good to see other things in the EBA (ie hourly rates and maternity leave) being worked out by our total salary rather than just the base.
Productivity and Gain share- Lets face it we don't have to do anything extra for these.
Rest break penalties work out marginally better
Acting CS pay is much better
Not sure how the optional days and drafting situation will work out. I guess only time will tell if the PBS system cuts down on the need for calling so many crew out to cover sick leave.
I have now been to one of the forums and believe I have a much better understanding of this proposed EBA. I see how certain decisions were made in regards to where we lost on a condition or gained on a condition. It really is a big balancing act.
Taking into account that we are all adults, and are happy to look at both sides of the picture I would like you encourage you to look at the EBA over the next few days and post what you DO and DON'T like about the proposal.
I am sure that we all have different needs so ensuring that we make the most informed decision is of a high priority. I would hate to think that I have misinterpreted a condition and voted the wrong way because of it.
Positive- the Cabin Crew Consultative Committee- These guys will meet to rectify any issues that arise out of this EBA. If something is not safe, being interpreted many different ways or not implemented the way it was intended the CCC will work at fixing it. Negative- We now pay for our passport and visa costs- however we can retrieve part of the cost as a tax deduction. I also figure that if I was negotiating this EBA this would be one of the first things I would be willing to trade for something better. Negative- the company has the right to Transfer us between bases. Remember that this is not a new clause (old EBA part 18) although it is a little scary. I can take comfort in the fact that this is a very costly exercise for the company so wouldn't be done just for the fun of it. And I have to trust that they would ask for volunteers first because they would lose quite a few crew members if they didn't. Negative - Maximum term Cabin Crew- look at Qantas - scary. - mixed- I was told personally by one of our FAAA reps (about 6months ago) that CS's would be getting quite a good pay rise so I was disappointed not to see that. However on the up side it is good to see other things in the EBA (ie hourly rates and maternity leave) being worked out by our total salary rather than just the base. Productivity and Gain share- Lets face it we don't have to do anything extra for these. Rest break penalties work out marginally better Acting CS pay is much better Not sure how the optional days and drafting situation will work out. I guess only time will tell if the PBS system cuts down on the need for calling so many crew out to cover sick leave.
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Depending on the trip these meal allowances work either way. My last few rosters show me coming out ahead under the new system. I was actually pretty surprised!! (Remember - that we don't get o/night allowances for day trips, so we haven't lost anything there. And WE WILL be losing o/night payment for red-eyes either way. It turns out that this is illegal and the ATO is onto it- this is not the company just being mean) Whilst the notification has been extended by one hour for calling in sick- the term "unforseen circumstances" has been added. It looks like we can no longer get into trouble if we call in under this time because of last minute issues. I like that we can cash out one weeks annual leave. I like that you no longer get penalised for doing ground duties whilst pregnant. You get paid at your current rate of pay. (Not the measly $15/ hours it is at the moment). And the option to extend your mat leave is handy if you can afford it. Leave of absence is a good addition. We can work quite a few extra hours than we are doing now- but we will be getting monthly overtime for them. (Remember that the PBS is coming in either way. This system is a roster optimisation system so you can also say good-bye to the 120hours under the current system. We will be getting maxed out rosters either way. From what I understand the flexibility built into the proposed EBA allows the PBS to better suit our bids, whereas the current EBA's rules may make getting your bids a little harder). I was a little annoyed at the non-credit training clause in the beginning. However It is balanced out by the fact that our 10 days off per month have not been pro-rated to suit the 28day rosters. We actually work out to be 5 days ahead for the year. I have also seen rosters that include these non-credit days and they really aren't that bad. There are also conditions built into the system to ensure we don't get flogged around these training days (ie still plenty of time to study for EP's) (and if they need to train us for more than 2days in any one month- those days DO count towards our credit hours) I know that looking at the daily duty hour limitation tables are quite scary! They are some very long days. However just remember that the average hours per day is about 7.2. So not all days will be long days. You can also bid under the PBS system to avoid long days. And.... if you are feeling tired or fatigued you can have your duty changed or be offloaded. This is something the company will be taking very seriously (I am guessing to avoid any legal issues). Happy that we can not sign on before 0600 after a day off. Happy with the duty hour credits we get for stand-by duties. Very Very Very happy with the increased percentage of part-time positions. This should help the lists move quite well. (Please note that the Union did say that this will probably be the first negotiating point if this EBA gets voted down.)Sorry to every-one that this is so long winded- but it has been a little therapeutic for me to write it all down to help with my decision.
Disclaimer- ok so spelling a grammar may not be the best- that’s not the point here. Also…………. This is how the EBA looks to ME- I am not pretending to know best.
Love SMILE
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Get the right advice, pay for it if you have to
Thanks ccguy. To others, no I’m not management, I’ve personally been through EBAs as well as AWAs and want to pass on the knowledge I’ve gathered along the way.
The law under the old laws and new laws state, you cannot be coerced to sign an AWA. Your last EBA has expired and yes you may get to stay on this for a while. It’s anyone’s guess how long it will take before a no vote causes a company to come back to you with some alternate workplace agreement. Don’t forget in the meantime, if it a while there’s no more increases-you stay stagnant. And before you argue CPI, this is only for workers on Awards or on the federal minimum wage. True-you could refuse to sign the second agreement but under the new laws-what happens to you. Under the old laws you would end up on an Award or no worse off than an Award as your safety net-that’s how a lot of your current conditions ended up in your last EBA. Under the new laws the “no disadvantage test” has gone. You could end up on the federal minimum standard-$511 a week, average 38 hours a week (152 in 4 weeks) 5 weeks annual leave, 10 days sick leave, 52 weeks unpaid parental leave. Pilots can escape the $511 minimum because they are professional staff and their flight duty limits and rest are determined by CASA-so don’t listen to pilot’s advice unless they know what you can lose under Workchoices. So, why are you suddenly not trusting your union when they are the only ones for the last 20 years, maybe longer I’m not sure, who have fought for eg. 140hrs max a month, daily rostering limits and then max on the day, minimum rest, right to roster requests, paid mat leave, part time, etc. etc. CASA doesn’t regulate flight attendants. Where there’s no Award they often use the same limits as pilots-ie. can force you up to 90 hours in 14 days. If you think the tables in your agreement are bad, check out www.casa.gov.au/aoc/fatigue std exemptions Part III-and these are rostered limits!
If you don’t trust anyone anymore, then at least protect yourself, pay for the advice and if you don’t have the money, ring the Fair Go Hotline to check for yourself.
No, the law protects you here. The union has got it right. If you don’t believe anyone then check it out for yourself on www.workchoices.gov.au Employee Fact Sheet on Personal/Carer’s Leave.
As our last EBA was negotiated under the old industrial laws, they cannot force us to sign a AWA. Our old EBA conditions will apply until replaced. Once, we've signed a new one, we then operate under Workchoices, and next time round, we can then be forced onto AWAs.
The law under the old laws and new laws state, you cannot be coerced to sign an AWA. Your last EBA has expired and yes you may get to stay on this for a while. It’s anyone’s guess how long it will take before a no vote causes a company to come back to you with some alternate workplace agreement. Don’t forget in the meantime, if it a while there’s no more increases-you stay stagnant. And before you argue CPI, this is only for workers on Awards or on the federal minimum wage. True-you could refuse to sign the second agreement but under the new laws-what happens to you. Under the old laws you would end up on an Award or no worse off than an Award as your safety net-that’s how a lot of your current conditions ended up in your last EBA. Under the new laws the “no disadvantage test” has gone. You could end up on the federal minimum standard-$511 a week, average 38 hours a week (152 in 4 weeks) 5 weeks annual leave, 10 days sick leave, 52 weeks unpaid parental leave. Pilots can escape the $511 minimum because they are professional staff and their flight duty limits and rest are determined by CASA-so don’t listen to pilot’s advice unless they know what you can lose under Workchoices. So, why are you suddenly not trusting your union when they are the only ones for the last 20 years, maybe longer I’m not sure, who have fought for eg. 140hrs max a month, daily rostering limits and then max on the day, minimum rest, right to roster requests, paid mat leave, part time, etc. etc. CASA doesn’t regulate flight attendants. Where there’s no Award they often use the same limits as pilots-ie. can force you up to 90 hours in 14 days. If you think the tables in your agreement are bad, check out www.casa.gov.au/aoc/fatigue std exemptions Part III-and these are rostered limits!
If you don’t trust anyone anymore, then at least protect yourself, pay for the advice and if you don’t have the money, ring the Fair Go Hotline to check for yourself.
Does this mean we are required to see thier doctors only to aquire a medical certificate if we're sick? hmmm....
No, the law protects you here. The union has got it right. If you don’t believe anyone then check it out for yourself on www.workchoices.gov.au Employee Fact Sheet on Personal/Carer’s Leave.
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Brainwashing going on....??
Hi Guys,
I am quite concerned that quite a few people are going to the Roadshows and coming out the other side having changed their NO vote to a YES......
Of COURSE the company is popping rose coloured glasses on everyone as they walk through the door - this EBA is most definitely to their advantage - yes, agreed that there are a FEW things in there that are positive for crew, but overall, the document is much more in favour of the company than the crew.
One doesn't have to venture too far into the EBA to see the first and one of the most concerning flaws......that at anytime, if a particular clause isn't in the best interest of the business, with ONE FAAA delegates approval, that clause can be changed. It then goes on to add that if the business feels that the FAAA is being unreasonable in saying no (to an alteration), they can change it anyway. (Please, if someone has the EBA handy and can quote the exact clause, I would be most grateful)
I mean, what is the point of even having an EBA when this is the case???
Thoughts........
I am quite concerned that quite a few people are going to the Roadshows and coming out the other side having changed their NO vote to a YES......
Of COURSE the company is popping rose coloured glasses on everyone as they walk through the door - this EBA is most definitely to their advantage - yes, agreed that there are a FEW things in there that are positive for crew, but overall, the document is much more in favour of the company than the crew.
One doesn't have to venture too far into the EBA to see the first and one of the most concerning flaws......that at anytime, if a particular clause isn't in the best interest of the business, with ONE FAAA delegates approval, that clause can be changed. It then goes on to add that if the business feels that the FAAA is being unreasonable in saying no (to an alteration), they can change it anyway. (Please, if someone has the EBA handy and can quote the exact clause, I would be most grateful)
I mean, what is the point of even having an EBA when this is the case???
Thoughts........
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Brisvegasboy you have just high-lighted the biggest problem with this EBA negotiation- one I know I have been guility. Assuming a clause or condition means something that it does not. Or adding your own ending on to suit your agenda. The exact wording of the clause you are looking for is.................
Clause 2.3- Dealing With Special Circumstances
Where special circumstances arise which have the capacity to impact on our business we may need to vary the terms of this Agreement.
Any such variation will be through the provision of a dispensation issued by an accredited representative of the FAAA. Any request for a dispensation will not be unresonably withheld where it is sought.
Sorry BV BOY but I cannot find the part of the clause that says Virgin can go ahead and do what they want if they don't get the dispensation.
Please be very careful when reading this EBA. It is too easy to turn something into something it is not. Before this EBA came out I recommended to my crew that they DO listen to the gossip- then grab out thier individual copy of the EBA and see if what the gossip says is true or just a load of made up BS.
Also to put your mind at ease- I didn't just walk in one door of the forum and then walk out the other end brainwashed. I hammered them with questions. I sat there from beginning to way past the end- 4hours in total. When everyone else was leaving I was still asking questions and seeking clarification. I even asked to see extra data above what they were showing at the forum- and this request was met pretty quickly.
Clause 2.3- Dealing With Special Circumstances
Where special circumstances arise which have the capacity to impact on our business we may need to vary the terms of this Agreement.
Any such variation will be through the provision of a dispensation issued by an accredited representative of the FAAA. Any request for a dispensation will not be unresonably withheld where it is sought.
Sorry BV BOY but I cannot find the part of the clause that says Virgin can go ahead and do what they want if they don't get the dispensation.
Please be very careful when reading this EBA. It is too easy to turn something into something it is not. Before this EBA came out I recommended to my crew that they DO listen to the gossip- then grab out thier individual copy of the EBA and see if what the gossip says is true or just a load of made up BS.
Also to put your mind at ease- I didn't just walk in one door of the forum and then walk out the other end brainwashed. I hammered them with questions. I sat there from beginning to way past the end- 4hours in total. When everyone else was leaving I was still asking questions and seeking clarification. I even asked to see extra data above what they were showing at the forum- and this request was met pretty quickly.
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So many points to address, so little time! Although I disagree with some of Ol' Shep's interpretations on Workchoices, it makes sense to research this area for yourself - possibly getting something in writing from the FAAA on how the process goes.
Smile, I agree with you that many clauses in the proposed EBA are open to interpretation, which in itself is a problem. You really need to consider worst-case scenarios as well as best-case scenarios, I really think it is being idealistic to presume that the agreement will always be carried out in the 'best intent'. If that were to be the case, it would be written that way, not have so many loopholes.
In regards to the 'Cabin Crew Consultative Committee', I don't mean to be cynical, but really I think that is a total waste of time. Ask any pilot if the PWC has any real power.
Aside from all of the nitty gritty, to insinuate that we may be subject to minimum wages etc, is fairly ridiculous. It makes no sense that Virgin would want angry, disgruntled crew, a higher-turnover rate and be unable to attract high calibre applicants. Economics 101 operates here - supply and demand. Crew and the company need to meet somewhere in the middle of their 'wish lists', so both are content and getting what they want.
It is in everyone's best interests to agree and sign an EBA for stability's sake - just make sure you are educated and happy with what you are signing. It's pretty unlikely that if a document crew rate as a 4/10 gets resoundingly voted down, that the company will come back with one rated a 2/10.
Oh, and let's not stress too much about AWAs, before they are really an issue, Rudd will be PM anyway! x
Smile, I agree with you that many clauses in the proposed EBA are open to interpretation, which in itself is a problem. You really need to consider worst-case scenarios as well as best-case scenarios, I really think it is being idealistic to presume that the agreement will always be carried out in the 'best intent'. If that were to be the case, it would be written that way, not have so many loopholes.
In regards to the 'Cabin Crew Consultative Committee', I don't mean to be cynical, but really I think that is a total waste of time. Ask any pilot if the PWC has any real power.
Aside from all of the nitty gritty, to insinuate that we may be subject to minimum wages etc, is fairly ridiculous. It makes no sense that Virgin would want angry, disgruntled crew, a higher-turnover rate and be unable to attract high calibre applicants. Economics 101 operates here - supply and demand. Crew and the company need to meet somewhere in the middle of their 'wish lists', so both are content and getting what they want.
It is in everyone's best interests to agree and sign an EBA for stability's sake - just make sure you are educated and happy with what you are signing. It's pretty unlikely that if a document crew rate as a 4/10 gets resoundingly voted down, that the company will come back with one rated a 2/10.
Oh, and let's not stress too much about AWAs, before they are really an issue, Rudd will be PM anyway! x
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Ol_Shep,
Could you please explain the different argument, because my understanding is the only argument you have is you will all find other jobs : The same as the cabin crew will.
Correct!, the company can offer AWA’s, but no one has to sign one and will continue on present conditions until they have agreed to something else.
Smile,
Could approval come from the same FAAA rep who let this into the EBA :
By the nature of this statement, the company can do what they want and no one can do anything about it. There are no boundaries!
We pilots have a different argument which protects us from the federal MINIMUM, cabin crew are not so lucky
Could you please explain the different argument, because my understanding is the only argument you have is you will all find other jobs : The same as the cabin crew will.
At this stage the law says, you can't be coerced on to AWAs. Your last EBA has expired and how long before you will be offered an AWA is anyone's guess, depends how many vote it down I suspect-if it's a resounding NO towards the company and the union, then I guess it will be fairly soon after the vote.
Correct!, the company can offer AWA’s, but no one has to sign one and will continue on present conditions until they have agreed to something else.
Smile,
Could approval come from the same FAAA rep who let this into the EBA :
3.1 Your Role as a Virgin Blue Cabin Crew Member
As a Virgin Blue Cabin Crew member your are the face of our brand and business. Our commitment to Safety and Guest Service is demonstrated through your professional behaviour. Given the safety critical nature of this role and the fact that you perform it away from our main work areas, it is important that we are able to establish and maintain a high degree of trust and confidence in you.
This role requires that you be available to work within 24-hour/7 day a week roster. This includes working the full range of duties rostered or assigned on weekdays, weekends and public holidays.
The nature of our operation is such that your duties can be disrupted by a variety of factors beyond our control. In order to ensure that we are able to continue to operate efficiently during these periods and meet the needs of our guests, we require a high degree of flexibility from you. Whilst we will aim to provide you with some stability around when and how you work, it is important that you understand that your roster may need to be changed in order for us to meet our operational requirements.
As a Virgin Blue Cabin Crew member your are the face of our brand and business. Our commitment to Safety and Guest Service is demonstrated through your professional behaviour. Given the safety critical nature of this role and the fact that you perform it away from our main work areas, it is important that we are able to establish and maintain a high degree of trust and confidence in you.
This role requires that you be available to work within 24-hour/7 day a week roster. This includes working the full range of duties rostered or assigned on weekdays, weekends and public holidays.
The nature of our operation is such that your duties can be disrupted by a variety of factors beyond our control. In order to ensure that we are able to continue to operate efficiently during these periods and meet the needs of our guests, we require a high degree of flexibility from you. Whilst we will aim to provide you with some stability around when and how you work, it is important that you understand that your roster may need to be changed in order for us to meet our operational requirements.
By the nature of this statement, the company can do what they want and no one can do anything about it. There are no boundaries!
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One more thing,
Remember how the company said the approval for 4 cabin crew was only going to be used for abnormal circumstances (1 crew member sick). That was in December, how many are they rostering now....?
Look at what they have done in the past , nothing has changed!
Remember how the company said the approval for 4 cabin crew was only going to be used for abnormal circumstances (1 crew member sick). That was in December, how many are they rostering now....?
Look at what they have done in the past , nothing has changed!
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Vista,
The dynamic nature of our industry and in turn our job requires flexibility. We have always and will always continue to be required to change our day at a moments notice because of factors out of our control; including aircraft going tech, diversions, and cancellations of flights. I know I have ended up in a different port because my duty has been changed due to one of these circumstances, I have even had my day cut short on a couple of occasions. That is just part of my job!!
Could you imagine the chaos if there was no flexibility- it would take weeks to get schedules back on time due to fog in MEL.
If this is something you are not happy with perhaps you need to reassess if this industry is for you. I can assure you that this is one condition that will NEVER EVER be taken out of the EBA. No matter how many times we vote 'no'.
The dynamic nature of our industry and in turn our job requires flexibility. We have always and will always continue to be required to change our day at a moments notice because of factors out of our control; including aircraft going tech, diversions, and cancellations of flights. I know I have ended up in a different port because my duty has been changed due to one of these circumstances, I have even had my day cut short on a couple of occasions. That is just part of my job!!
Could you imagine the chaos if there was no flexibility- it would take weeks to get schedules back on time due to fog in MEL.
If this is something you are not happy with perhaps you need to reassess if this industry is for you. I can assure you that this is one condition that will NEVER EVER be taken out of the EBA. No matter how many times we vote 'no'.