peanut pusher

There is a need for 25 crew more to cover holidays and a greater reserve coverage.
Guess what? only one person has left out of almost 400 (death of parent in Aus). Flying is unreal, 4 day slips in most ports except Bangkok where it's a 2 day slip and some 3 day.
I'am actualy making more money than I did back home and the tax system is very kind to cabin crew.
Hows your continual negative shallow life going, not so good I gather.
So in responce to your cheap shot of a question, I coudn't keep up the individual responces as it was taking to much time to respond and I only planned to let it stand for 24hrs.
Back on the Topic, we'll done crew, you should see the latest customer satifaction survey info base V base.

str

PP, you forgot to mention the 4 people who have been dismissed....all Aussies I hear?

peanut pusher

1 person got sacked for going sick and then using staff travel to go away for a weekend in Spain.
1 person not 4 and a couple of people got a rap across the knuckles for stupid things that you would put down to common sence.

Jetslagger, no silver for me just reality and get with the program because you'll never change it. Leave if it's so bad, should get a job in the real world, if you can.

For me after my 2 years I'll be leaving to another career so I don't go back and turn into a bitter twisted person like you.

OK OK Ok back to the original survey before the hate mongers takeover another thread from airline of the year to why I hate everything everyday.

PS. The Thai crew were crap for the first 12 months themselves and would cut your throat for more money at the blink of an eye.
Do I have to revisit all the funny Thai crew stories we use to have to prove a point.
The Thai base has done more damage than any other thing in L/H flying history, why don't you give them a serve because they stab you in the back to the LHR base continually.

OCCR

Peanut puller,

Who gives a toss what the Thais think!

I generally read your posts and wonder what planet youre on, however, you do make a valid point......

PS. The Thai crew were crap for the first 12 months themselves and would cut your throat for more money at the blink of an eye.

Be aware all crew, the thais are having a field day playing us against each other

by the way, have a look at this ppruneners comments about ALL cabin crew flying ninja here is a link

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...65#post1932665

this person is a problem, not the other bases

GalleyHag

Tighslot is on the right track a web site dedicated to the demise of the Qantas brand through the outsourcing of crew to off-shore bases at the expense of Australian jobs plus the casualisation of the Australian short haul workforce may just make people sit up and listen. Factual information about the number of fixed term crew recently ditched in favour of UK nationals, the unlimited use of offshore crew in AO and the list goes on.

For those of us that remember the "exceptional" course the one thing Qantas doesnt want in any shape or form is negative reports about the company and brand out in the public, through the media including internet websites. Rumour has it Qantas threatened to take action against Crikey at one stage, but didnt do any good.

If this website gets up and it becomes known, maybe, just maybe the media may pick up stories and run with them, as all they have at the moment is forums like this which contain quite a bit of friction amoungst each division.

Argus

Pleased to see that in the 2005 Skytrax Awards , QF managed a respectable second place.

Yet in the same World Awards, QF Cabin Staff didn't make the top seven.

Before the usual suspects rush to abuse me and accuse me of being a QF management plant (which I’m not) for raising this issue, may I respectfully suggest that people take a moment to reflect on the Survey’s methodology and what it purports to represent.

According to the small print, the survey attracted almost 3.5 million (3,461,902) eligible nominations from at least 93 different nationalities over a 10 month period, there were detailed back-up interviews of a representative sample of respondents and, finally, data weighting was applied to provide nomination equity when evaluating airlines of different size and network. Unless that’s all a pack of lies, it’s a well run survey and the results should be reliable.

Survey respondents nominated airlines in the 2005 Best Cabin Staff Awards, based upon the Quality attributes for the different airline's cabin staff, listed below:

*Assistance during boarding
*Welcoming passengers
*Applying safety procedures
*Food & Beverage service efficiency
*Answering call bell
*Staff language skills
*Problem solving ability
*Discipline among staff
*Enthusiasm of staff
*Sincerity of Staff service
*Friendliness of staff
*Courtesy of Staff service
*Consistency of Quality among staff
*Total service efficiency
*Total cabin presence
*Staff grooming & Presentation

IMHO, that’s a comprehensive list from which to have one’s performance assessed.

And to preempt any criticism of failure to take on board safety into account, why is it suggested that Cabin Crew can either provide superb service or good safety skills if required - but not both?

The ‘safety’ argument is a red herring. Of course Cabin Crew ability to cope with an emergency is of paramount importance, but the percentage of flights where skills are required is very small. In contrast, good service and a good approach to passengers is important on every flight.

I don't accept that being well-trained to cope with emergencies and providing the sort of in-flight service which such a large number of passengers appreciate is inconsistent or mutually exclusive.

Is it suggested that Asiana Airlines (the winning CC) isn't safe just because they train their Cabin Crew to provide the service and attitude to customers which their customers appreciate?

Or that Asiana's Cabin Crew aren't trained/able to cope with emergencies just because they deliver only service and a customer focused attiitude to their passengers?

I’m no supporter of Australian jobs being lost to overseas interests. But before you all spend a motza on an advertising campaign, I respectfully suggest that QF Cabin Crew reflect on the quality of the service they offer before seeking public support for their cause.

jettlager

Argus,

interesting to see that your anti qf CC post of a couple of days ago on the D&G forum re the above was completely ignored.

I hope that my post makes you feel a little better.

Are you aware that the three airlines that compare with qf in size and product namely Thai, Singapore Airlines and Malaysian all operate the 744 [as an example] with 5-8 more cabin crew than do qf ?

Is it in you, to acknowledge that CC at qf MAY be responsible in "some way" for the favourable skytrax review?

Is it in you, to acknowledge that higher aircraft crewing levels in the order of 25-30% MAY have something to do with passenger perception and satisfaction?

May I respectfully suggest that an individual able to hold a balanced and unbiased position would do so.

Jettlager

argusmoon

Cabin Crew are the face of any airline.They spend more time with the pax than any other airline employee.Cabin crew apologize for the shortcomings of management,engineers,aircraft designers and caterers to name but a few.Cabin crew require resources to do their job.As has been said over and over again CC at Qantas are told they are a necessary evil.Reviled by management and denied the resources to do their job well.CC at Qantas are the scapegoats for chronic service failures.
We want to do our job well( very well) and are hamstrung by lip service paying management.Any airline requires X amount of expenditure on product to be competitive.At present at QF it is about X(-2) and heading toward X(-3).Considering how little QF CC have to work with I am surprised the airline rates in the top 20 and its crew in the top 50.For godsake give the crewbashing a break and understand that there are 28,000 other employees who may also contribute to the problems the airline faces with its product.
Cabin Crew :the public face of the airline and the bloody scapegoats for management incompetence and indifference.
Get rid of performance bonuses and you will see a huge improvement

Argus

Ah, jettlager up to your usual trick, I see, of attempting to personalise the argument, and then playing the person rather than the ball.

Rather than accusing me of bias, you (and argusmoon) should focus on the fact that, however unpalatable it must be, almost 3.5 million Skytrax survey respondents in the last ten months have concluded that the generality of QF cabin (as opposed to flight deck, ground and engineering) staff, have failed to perform to a level that ranks QF cabin staff in the world's top seven. If that's hard to take, then that's unfortunate. Nevertheless, it's fact.

Sorry old son, from the passengers' point of view, value for hard earned spondulaks looms large in the choice of carrier. Tell me why I should chance my hard earned money on a fare with QF when there's a possibility that some of your fellow posters (and maybe even yourself) will be more concerned in spruking bile against Geoff Dickson, rather than doing the job you're currently paid to do.

argusmoon

Skytrax doesnt provide a category for management or engineers,but they do for CC.Why?Because CC are the product and as I said before there is little investment or encouragement to do well .This is particularly so as far resources are concerned.
ARGUS you are living in Disneyland.Your criticism is generally a value judgement with scant detail to support any of your assertions.In fact you are starting to sound like a broken 78.Instead of being critical(which is easy)offer some constructive ideas for improvement.
Interesting to note that Sing Air is down to number four.
The food we have to serve is crap.We rate 10th in P/C,7th in J/C and 5th in Y/C.ARGUS CC do not produce the catering.Less than 1% of aircraft delays are down to crew with some 32% down to engineering and ATC.While you are busy having a go at crew(soft targets)have alook at some of the other areas that have an impact on the perception of the product.
The QF IFE doesn`t even rate.The CC are not responsible for that either.
Crew are being made to deliver a third rate product.The perception is that crew are responsible for that product.Let me say if we were it would be a hell of alot better than it is.Serving a third rate product is downright embarrassing.There is no pride in that.
ARGUS you are in danger of becoming irrelevant to this discussion(if you haven`t already)

firepussy

You require 2 different hats when relating to safety and service.One.. Service requires a somewhat different approach to Two... safety.Safety requires assertiveness and strong forceful direction...Service does not.Sexism dictates that chauvinists like you will always prefer to be served(serviced)by a compliant submissive asian girl.Will she save your arse?Depends on how cute it is.
How about some clever constuctive ideas?(echo)

jetjockey7

Three criteria for best cabin crew....
1.Female
2.Asian
3.Plenty of them.
As an aussie bloke with a face like a dropped pie,how can I possibly compete?These girls would make a s**t sandwich taste like veal cordon bleu.
Old Argus must have a lump in his duds when he flies these Asian Carriers.You naughty boy you`ll go blind

Argus

Your points about attractiveness/youth v ability/experience are correct. However, the survey wasn't about the most attractive Cabin Crew. And attractiveness and ability aren't inconsistent.

This was a survey of customer opinion, not people in the business. My comments were made from a customer's point of view about a customer satisfaction survey.

Why are you all so surprised that people take this kind of survey seriously? There are various tourist and hotel guides which sell millions of copies every year. Some use their own researchers, others rely upon customer comments. The guides take into account not only the quality of the food/comfort of the bedroom, but the quality of service given by the staff, e.g. efficiency, attentiveness, friendliness, courtesy, enthusiasm, attitude to customers etc etc. They don't deal with the safety of the establishment, the ability of the staff to evacuate the building in the event of a fire, compliance with food hygiene regulations etc, but they're still useful guides.

Don’t shoot the messenger; act on the message!

argusmoon

The broken 78.You have added nothing to the discussion,answered none of the questions presented.You have provided no constructive solutions just rhetorical criticism. You are irrelevant.

captainrats

Lousy food
Lousy IFE
Aircraft Breakdowns
Crumby Lounges
Poor Check In facilities.
The impression is created before CC can open their mouths.The CC begin every sentence with ...I`m sorry.Apologizing for somebody elses incompetence is never easy.CC are the deliverers(messengers)of crap DON`T SHOOT THEM!!Then you are threatened and intimidated at sign on.I have seen CC in tears before going to work due to a "conversation"with a PDM/team leader.The only individuals accountable for anything in QF are the crew.The rest of the cockroaches hide in the shadows with their clipboards.Most of QF employees have never even met a bloody customer let alone understand their wants and needs .The CC do but their feedback is totally ignored.In the end to save your sanity you become indifferent knowing you can`t make a difference.

mach2male

Solutions...anybody?Solutions....... pleeeze!

Argus

Some thoughts and a suggestion.

Industrial psychologists and employee relations people would blanch at the current level of conflict in what must be, on any view, a dysfunctional work group within QF.

What management wants is change. Many of the employees are totally opposed to change. The union seems to accept the management’s reasons for change but doesn’t seem to have finalized its negotiating position on trade offs.

Change in large organizations is usually achieved by a combination of employee participation, negotiation, agreement, manipulation and coercion. Some employees actively embrace change; some actively resist it. One possible option that’s usually on the table is voluntary redundancy. Redundancy isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but when coupled with some form of job retraining/tertiary studies assistance package, the pill can be less bitter and actually lead to new career opportunities.

An example of such a package was negotiated in 1993 with unions representing employees of the now defunct Commonwealth Department of Administrative Services. Those who volunteered for redundancy received full pay for 12 months if they undertook an “approved” tertiary or TAFE course, thence award redundancy benefits thereafter. The Commonwealth also picked up the tab for HECS, textbooks and other institutional fees during the 12 month period.

A major ‘head hunting’ firm was contracted to assist individuals in finding employment.

If memory serves me correctly, the whole package was negotiated under the stewardship of the ACTU.

Might be worth considering. Surely it's better than the vitriol and personal abuse!

mach2male

QF has been down that road.They are not prepared to do it again as the people who go are not the targetted group.
Next suggestion please...anyone?

qcc2

captainrats said it all. its pretty hard to work every time with substandard equipment, faulty ife etc. in the new ife category qf doen't get a mention. i wonder why. because it has problems on average of more then 50% of flights or because the customers think they are on an retro 70's nostalgic trip when they see the screens on the 767.

lets bring on voluntary redundancies. there are enough crew out there who cant wait to get it. i would think a stampede is coming the day they announce a package. on would hope that a compulsary package is also available for managers in the office.
at least 80% should go because of sheer incompetance.

just the let yous know that in the ongoing surveys qf management does with customers, cabin crew does have a CONSISTANT HIGH APPROVAL RATING.
THATS THE FEEDEBACK FROM QANTAS PUNTERS .
the definition of todays qf punter is a person, particulary frequent flyers, who can have a punt on what does not work on this coming sector.
1)ife breaks down (csm fixes it, another part breaks down, more resets, you get my drift)
2)no meal choice (first meal)
3)no meal choice 9second meal)
4) seats has a fault
5) his ff points upgrade is lost in the system
6) the requested seat in his profile has gone to someone else
7) check in staff would not be helpfull
8)lounge full as standing room only
9) aircraft delayed
10) aircraft late
11) duty free n/a
and many other issues

Nihao

I thought MAM casuals only did short haul. Do they do long haul also?