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Qantas; the thread.

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Qantas; the thread.

Old 24th May 2005, 23:55
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The part of the London slip that annoys me is that during last years EBA talks ,QF said that they were prepared to allocate one LHR trip per calender day to Syd based crews.

This was ostensibly to visit family/friends and/or enjoy the UK.Now the reduced slip in LHR to one night makes a mockery of this and any other statement that management makes!

I can understand QF wanting to save money if they were in financial trouble but the current situation is the exact opposite.

I would also like to hear what conditions the managers are having to put up with while we are expected to endur cut after cut.

Thye last point is that these cuts have nothing to do with return to shareholder but mainly for bonuses for certain people
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Old 25th May 2005, 00:02
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JBM - As F/A for Virgin what would you know about conditions etc. at Qantas. As many people have said previously, Qantas is a great company to work for, however due to the current QF Mismanagement our conditions are going down the loo. I'm pretty sure if you spent a day online a QF you wouldn't be saying what you say.

Personally I think these one day slips in LHR is the absoloute stinks. I am on airport standby 2moro, is there anyone else on s'by 2moro? as i am absoloutly sure that i will be stuck at the airport for 6 hours and not getting assigned to a flight or nothing at all till at least my 5th hour, what does everyone do on the airport s'by's?
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Old 25th May 2005, 02:34
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I know all about your pay scales and conditions of employment because EBA's are a public document available for all to see (wagenet.gov.au).

I also am quite confident that it is mostly a highly vocal left wing minority that post here who are not representative of the majority view. The EBA being voted up last year is the majority view, that's why it was overwhelmingly voted up. One assumes that you are being rostered as per the EBA, therefore you need to convince this majority that the EBA needs to change if you are not happy with your rosters/ slips / slip times etc.

My previous post about how things have changed nationwide is an acknowledgement of how things are changing for you guys, perhaps more than other employee groups. It could be said though that your group has the most change to be had therefore are experiencing the most change! Compare your pay and conditions with that of other crew doing exactly the same job as other LH crew around the world, even dare I say, AO crew.

As for black banning my posts, go right ahead. There is rarely a sensible counter argument from that rabble so they always just attack the writer. Makes me feel confident that what I write is close to the truth.
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Old 25th May 2005, 05:35
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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Assertions

These assertions and assumptions add nothing to the debate and are merely meant to enflame.
JBM is a Virgin flight attendant with way too much time on his hands.The face paint has obviously run out.
Regarding change I suggest you read Captainrats post.The changes have been going on for nearly 20 years.The conditions have been steadily eroded over that time.

Last edited by surfside6; 25th May 2005 at 07:40.
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Old 25th May 2005, 07:59
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Thanks for the link to wagenet. I did some comparison of my own between the various cc eba's in Oz. If others here did the same they might see why their management is giving them a hard time. The productivity & wage differential between QF longhaul and all the others is huge. Sounds like they are fighting a losing battle to me.
Try ignoring them JBM, playing the man and not the ball when they are losing is an old union tactic, and all footballers know you will never win the game that way.
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Old 25th May 2005, 11:21
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flugenluft,

how many of the Australian FA groups who's pay you are comparing with longhaul crew routinely operate 13+ hour tours of duty?

How many operate through multiple time zones?

How many operate a 3 class full service product?

How many operate multiple A/C types?

How many spend 7+ months of the year away from home/family fullfilling their employment obligations?

How many spend most if not all of the time they do have at home battling with the effects of jetlag and sleep deprivation?

Oh by the way. I'm not complaining about ANY of the above . Just wishing to point out the UNIQUE circumstances relating to my employment.

I wonder if the fact that we DO earn more than other FA groups in Australia may have something to do with some/all of the above?

We await your learned and "balanced" views.

Jettlager
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Old 25th May 2005, 12:52
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I'm not at the least worried about AO. QF has a dozen A380's on the way and AO certainly won't be flying them. If anyone should be worried about AO it's Virgin, as they team up with Jetstar and put the squeeze on Big Dick's cost base. Soon you'll be loading the bags and scrubbing those dunnies for you're 30k a year. I hear you're a great toilet scrubber too JBM. Keep up the good work
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Old 25th May 2005, 12:52
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JBM,
Well,it seems as though you are not honest enough to tell us which airline you work for and what base!

If you are with Virgin Blue ,I think you'll find out soon enough what it is like to have your conditions cut as your new boss looks at ways to lower his operating costs.

Let's see if you think it's fun to be more efficient as they try to match Jet Star and then you will finally find out what we have been talking about all this time
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Old 25th May 2005, 13:01
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Oh is that a 2 year old that needs his face painted, oh it is, JBM that call bell is for you, its not included in any Qantas EBA just yet, so best you run along and do what you do best and up-sell and paint to your hearts content!

Last edited by GalleyHag; 25th May 2005 at 13:46.
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Old 25th May 2005, 15:37
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bases

captain rats says
"A couple of clauses regarding off shore bases were inserted...."
what the hell were the union thinking? -who exactly was running the show when these were allowed to get up and who was overseeing the FAAA when the BKK & AKL bases were announced ???????-this is when the strike action should have taken place - this is when the media should have been alerted -where were all the cabin crew warriors then?
senior crew tell me that they believed Aust based crew would go onto these bases - as is the case with the new LHR base.
the horse had well & truly bolted by the time the LHR base was announced by dixon.
those that are bleating & whingeing most about the LHR base now - where exactly were you when the first Thais were employed? now they have taken your FRA flying -are any of you going in to see your team mangaers and saying , "Hey this is immoral, this in unAustralian?"
with no cap on the AO EBA its all over anyway.
its not all management duplicity.
we signed our own death warrant in our last few EBAs -the devil was always in the small print and we all missed it.
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Old 25th May 2005, 16:01
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no probs at qantas

Well obviously everything at QANTAS is OK ...

I posted here on 19 May asking for GENUINE input for an ABC radio program I am producing, looking at the airline, staff concerns, issues, problems... etc...etc (read post "media request")

No replies of note - even after I gave my name, contact details etc...

QANTAS management is willing to give me its side of the story ... so what's wrong with you guys ... ???

Are you just here for a bitch/whinge session for the sake of it ? or are you really interested in changing the problems you say exist ???

eye
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Old 25th May 2005, 21:26
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where to now?

the faaa needs to start a long term campaign highlighting to the Australian public the loss of Australian jobs overseas by the employment of foreign nationals.
It will need to engage a professional PR company & ad agency. Its going to cost a lot of money -(sell the mascot office?)-but with the signing of the AO EBA with unlimited bases - this is a fight to the death. a good use of members money. they can't wait till the next EBA discussions start. it needs to happen now. the only way to make geoff and the board take notice is to de- base the Qantas brand by continually drawing attention to the fact that Qantas /Australian Airlines can no longer be regarded as an Australian company because...25% -50% of its cabin crew are now employed overseas this will make the Australian public very angry.
this message was not conveyed effectively with the set up of the LHR base because nearly 200 Australian crew were just being relocated -this is a normal occurance in any big company and the media could not find an "angle" so dropped the story.
but the BBK & AKL bases are a direct attack on Australian jobs and Joe Public will quickly see this.
geoff dixon's background is marketing - he bought the copyright to "I still Call Austalia Home" and is sensitive to the issue of losing the balance where Qantas can no longer trade on its nationalistic image.
this has to be a couple of years sustained highlighting of the off shoring of Australian jobs - billboards at Mascot -"play spot the Aussie F/A on a Qantas flight today"....newspaper ads - "spot the Aussie..." talk back radio....
the way management used the AKL crew as blackmail to get the JFK dispensation will happen again & again .
this campaign can be done perfectly legally without defaming Qantas -just state the facts
185? jobs gone to BKK
150? to the kiwis
now
170 to the Poms
where next?
as I said this will cost money & take time - but just watch the board sit up, take notice and start asking marg & geoff some very uncomfortable questions.
what do you reckon??
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Old 25th May 2005, 22:11
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WCG,
I couldn't agree more!
Last year I flew with a faaa csm and suggested that we embark on a publicity campaign about the loss of Australian jobs and the hidden clauses in the LHR base .
He told me that the faaa was more than capable of beating QF on this issue.
Again I suggested the same tactic regarding the threat of being replaced by AKL crew if we did not give dispensation for operating LAX/JFK/LAX but was told that I did not know how it works!
I am now beginning to wonder who's side the faaa is really on!
The real threat might not just be QF management but the faaa as well

eyeonethesky,

If you really are a journalist why did you not approach the faaa(I have my doubts about them but that is another story) or crew as they come out of customs.I\'m sure you would not have any trouble finding a story.
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Old 25th May 2005, 23:55
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WCG

WCG
for once I agree 100% with you, you're right in what you state.
The Billboard idea is a good one.
We should also let the Australian public know that if you are a young Australian you must relocate to AKL to get a job with an Aussie airline. I know this really stuns people when they are told.
I must admit that the FAAA have been a huge disappointment, but then I don't know what really goes on in there, they do have an uphill battle to remove or revoke the failings of the previous decisions made by those 3 JB,GB,TW.
If we want to get upset, those 3 are the ones to vent our anger on!

I still cannot fathom why the FAAA gave dispensation to the JFK shuttle, and look at how QF management rewarded us. they removed 2 days from the LHR pattern,they took one day off from the FRA slip,they placed all Y/C crew on the AKL/LAX flights, they placed AKL crew on the SYD/LAX directs, they then placed them on HNL and PVG and BOM (they can have that one). AND WE GAVE THEM DISPENSATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 26th May 2005, 00:00
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How about a story of the current management MO in Australia of sending jobs offshore.Where does it stop,we will have checkout girls at supermarkets on 11 month contracts from Asia and bank tellers from somwehere else and Taxi drivers and doctors from the sub continent... journalists from who knows..Everyone in Australia will be on the dole..except for those lucky enough to be on a board of some company
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Old 26th May 2005, 01:37
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You have to ask why the faaa is rolling over very nicely for the company,the management have certaainly trained the faaa very well.
1: Why on earth did the faaa give dispensation for the JFK issue

2:Why did they not retract that dispensation when the slip in LHR was reduced and SIN at the end of a FRA trip.

3: Why is the faaa so unwilling to have a media campaign about the loss of Australian jobs.

4:Why did the faaa give a story on page 3 of a sunday paper about stockings and shirts...let's focus on the real issue

5:Why did the faaa recommend to AO crew that they accept a limitless cap after seeing what is happening to QF Longhaul

6: Why did someone on the current faaa leadership sign off on the BKK and AKL bases when they were first announced.

7: Why are we paying union fees when apparently we can do nothing..
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Old 26th May 2005, 02:52
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the FAAA have just released a news letter.
Here we go again, long on words etc, but what does it say.
I read it as "we had to do it, more to come, stay tunned"

Intersted to see what you think WCG as you seem to have a real passion about our beloved FAAA. heh heh eh
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Old 26th May 2005, 08:29
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slap in the face

Here is a slap in the face for all those Kiwi crew.
Just had a look at the FRA trips and as you all know the BKK crew now operate them, but what is different is that the BKK crew have 64 hours in FRA and stay with the crew, the AKL crew always had 40 hours, not only that but all the BKK crew patterns start in SYD with 55 hour slip,, I thought they were employed as a cost saving measure!
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Old 26th May 2005, 08:41
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QF is probably getting ready to use the Kiwi's on the JFK run if we withdraw our dispensation!

Does anyone know how many AKLand BKK crew there are?
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Old 26th May 2005, 10:09
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WCG,
A great idea,then the tv and papers would pick up on it and we would have the company reacting to us instead of the opposite..

The only trouble is getting the faaa to listen to us...
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