Netjets (Europe) Interviews - All you need to know about it (threads merged)
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Dogsbolx2
Clearly you are new to all this. Your cocky comments about upgrading to captain and your blinkered view all point toward someone upon whom reality has yet to settle.
Wait until the end of the summer when you've had the 3am phone scramble call a few times. Try objecting that you have only been in bed four hours because your brief was for a 9z show and receive the response that they signed you off 11 hours ago so it's legal to wake you.
Do a few dozen tours where your airline is at 6z but your duty time only starts 5 hours later.
Find yourself in a few sub-standard hotels (read your Part 'A', it now says 3 star hotels are considered adequate. See how they change things without telling you? Get used to it).
Speaking of changing things, expect 6 on/4 off to become the norm. 'They' have instructed Rostering to make this the case 'whenever possible'. Didn't tell you that on your indoc either, did they?
Wait until you've been rostered into discretion on day 6 a few times.
Try explaining to those who work harder on the small cabin fleets with no APU or FA why others with an easier life get paid more.
Look at your pay cheque in a few years and see how you are earning less than you were before.
My friend, when you have experienced all this THEN come back and tell us we are making it up.
In the meantime I will forgive your exuberant arrogance and accept your humble apology.
Clearly you are new to all this. Your cocky comments about upgrading to captain and your blinkered view all point toward someone upon whom reality has yet to settle.
Wait until the end of the summer when you've had the 3am phone scramble call a few times. Try objecting that you have only been in bed four hours because your brief was for a 9z show and receive the response that they signed you off 11 hours ago so it's legal to wake you.
Do a few dozen tours where your airline is at 6z but your duty time only starts 5 hours later.
Find yourself in a few sub-standard hotels (read your Part 'A', it now says 3 star hotels are considered adequate. See how they change things without telling you? Get used to it).
Speaking of changing things, expect 6 on/4 off to become the norm. 'They' have instructed Rostering to make this the case 'whenever possible'. Didn't tell you that on your indoc either, did they?
Wait until you've been rostered into discretion on day 6 a few times.
Try explaining to those who work harder on the small cabin fleets with no APU or FA why others with an easier life get paid more.
Look at your pay cheque in a few years and see how you are earning less than you were before.
My friend, when you have experienced all this THEN come back and tell us we are making it up.
In the meantime I will forgive your exuberant arrogance and accept your humble apology.
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Smeagal,
Off at a slight tangant here as I don't fly for netjets BUT do get the same afore mentioned abuse. Its nice to know that I'm not the only one!! Do you think its all GA flying or there are really some companies out there that don't treat you like their company biatches? Surely the grass has got to be greener elsewhere??
Living in hope.....
Blu
Off at a slight tangant here as I don't fly for netjets BUT do get the same afore mentioned abuse. Its nice to know that I'm not the only one!! Do you think its all GA flying or there are really some companies out there that don't treat you like their company biatches? Surely the grass has got to be greener elsewhere??
Living in hope.....
Blu
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So smeagel tell me-
With which airline do you get 4 days OFF in row- on a regular basis? I am not talking about Personal Bidding Systems where you occasionaly get a string of OFF days- regular 4 OFF-
yes ezy 5/2 5/4 -
I think 6/4 is pretty good no?
And with what airline can you live where you want in Europe-
Tell me please!
I can't beleive the start of duty comment - didn't they get the IATA LOSA- must operate according JAR OPS- the IATA auditors would have spotted such obvious irregularities- NO?
Hotel standard- really true? Because if it's "substandard" they will lose lots of people ...
I am joining NetJets , leaving a well established airline- enough of boring sectors- 5ON 2 OFF- sometimes single OFF days-
Keeping in mind that they recently got a IATA registry I would have thought they would be up to snuff...
With which airline do you get 4 days OFF in row- on a regular basis? I am not talking about Personal Bidding Systems where you occasionaly get a string of OFF days- regular 4 OFF-
yes ezy 5/2 5/4 -
I think 6/4 is pretty good no?
And with what airline can you live where you want in Europe-
Tell me please!
I can't beleive the start of duty comment - didn't they get the IATA LOSA- must operate according JAR OPS- the IATA auditors would have spotted such obvious irregularities- NO?
Hotel standard- really true? Because if it's "substandard" they will lose lots of people ...
I am joining NetJets , leaving a well established airline- enough of boring sectors- 5ON 2 OFF- sometimes single OFF days-
Keeping in mind that they recently got a IATA registry I would have thought they would be up to snuff...
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Smeagal...
Why can't you let other people have a healthy opinion of who they work for?
What's your problem mate?
Just leave NJE.... WE DON'T WANT IDIOTS LIKE YOU!!
You really are childish, disenchanted and immature.
Aren't you?
Enough said.
Why can't you let other people have a healthy opinion of who they work for?
What's your problem mate?
Just leave NJE.... WE DON'T WANT IDIOTS LIKE YOU!!
You really are childish, disenchanted and immature.
Aren't you?
Enough said.
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It takes quite a few years and few jobs before you can really judge . I am afraid that NJE needs all those experienced captains more than bunch of eager bright eyed copilots.
Have fun.
Have fun.
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toothpaste.
Inca's immediate reply with insults rather than arguing the points raised should tell you all you need to know.
Of all things he/she could have called me he/she didn't call me a liar. Now why do you think that might be?
The time you spend travelling to your aircraft on day one is not counted as duty time by NJE. Theoretically you could travel from one end of europe to the other and then do a full days work. Your subsequent rest period will not take into account the time you spent travelling. Why have the authorities not picked up on this? There are many theories.
Despite my solely negative comments in this thread I agree with you. The time off is one of the main attractions. That plus new(ish) aircraft and varied flying combine to make the job infinitely more fun than A-B.
It could be so much better were it not for the heavy handed management who have and will change pay, conditions and anything else they like at the drop of a hat whether or not such changes contradict what is in your contract. When/if you sign it do so knowing that it is worthless.
I could explain here the reasoning behind some of it but that would just bore all those on here who have heard it before from many sources. If you really want to know then PM me. You could also wade through all the old NJE threads and contact a few of the other members for their views.
Failing that just hold your nose and jump in. Don't say you were not warned though.
inca
Had you been able to disprove my comments you would have done so.
I will gladly respond to any meaningful contributions but if all you are capable of is childish name calling then expect to be ignored.
Inca's immediate reply with insults rather than arguing the points raised should tell you all you need to know.
Of all things he/she could have called me he/she didn't call me a liar. Now why do you think that might be?
The time you spend travelling to your aircraft on day one is not counted as duty time by NJE. Theoretically you could travel from one end of europe to the other and then do a full days work. Your subsequent rest period will not take into account the time you spent travelling. Why have the authorities not picked up on this? There are many theories.
Despite my solely negative comments in this thread I agree with you. The time off is one of the main attractions. That plus new(ish) aircraft and varied flying combine to make the job infinitely more fun than A-B.
It could be so much better were it not for the heavy handed management who have and will change pay, conditions and anything else they like at the drop of a hat whether or not such changes contradict what is in your contract. When/if you sign it do so knowing that it is worthless.
I could explain here the reasoning behind some of it but that would just bore all those on here who have heard it before from many sources. If you really want to know then PM me. You could also wade through all the old NJE threads and contact a few of the other members for their views.
Failing that just hold your nose and jump in. Don't say you were not warned though.
inca
Had you been able to disprove my comments you would have done so.
I will gladly respond to any meaningful contributions but if all you are capable of is childish name calling then expect to be ignored.
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Netjets is great but people may want to fly bigger plane, different routing or have a nice future and long career with a national carrier.
But the last time I spoke with our director of training, he expected 40 to 50 people leaving this year......
but yep the company is great but a lot of people leaving would say, it's a too small plane or i want the 777.....
just my 2 cents
But the last time I spoke with our director of training, he expected 40 to 50 people leaving this year......
but yep the company is great but a lot of people leaving would say, it's a too small plane or i want the 777.....
just my 2 cents
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Agree that some people just cannot get the big plane thing out of their system but that does not account for the dissent being displayed by many of the crew.
There are lots of ex-airline people currently looking for jobs elsewhere who would gladly stay if only they could trust the company. Sadly history has shown they cannot.
It's not just crew, several managers have resigned recently. I'm afraid things will only change if/when some major changes are made right at the top. Until then the company will just keep frittering away money on training and shipping in new managers.
There are lots of ex-airline people currently looking for jobs elsewhere who would gladly stay if only they could trust the company. Sadly history has shown they cannot.
It's not just crew, several managers have resigned recently. I'm afraid things will only change if/when some major changes are made right at the top. Until then the company will just keep frittering away money on training and shipping in new managers.
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A nice quote from Smeagel
I get a feeling you have been kicked out and cannot live up to the fact that other people might like it at NetJets.....
I put my ear to the ground in Lisbon and did not hear of any managers that left other then a noisy yank with no understanding of the real world.. Sounds a bit like you
I'm not a Lisbon insider, just someone who keeps his ear to the ground. And a pessimist
I put my ear to the ground in Lisbon and did not hear of any managers that left other then a noisy yank with no understanding of the real world.. Sounds a bit like you
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After reading this thread (and the 256000 before on NetJets), I took a chance and actually talked to some NJE drivers....
Guess what? None of them was actually complaining...A stable roster, money paid on time, what you do concerning pay/tax is your business, IF called from off-duty extra pay, new airplanes, maintenance seems to be okido, growth, handling all the time, catering all the time...
To a 15 year exec aviation veteran it sounds like paradise.
The only prob I have is, that I applied 4 times and got just one answer "thanks we are finished for this year"...
So Mr. Netjets, IŽm a regular fan of yours, now the ball is in your field....and yeah, IŽd like a F2000 or GV Job please
Guess what? None of them was actually complaining...A stable roster, money paid on time, what you do concerning pay/tax is your business, IF called from off-duty extra pay, new airplanes, maintenance seems to be okido, growth, handling all the time, catering all the time...
To a 15 year exec aviation veteran it sounds like paradise.
The only prob I have is, that I applied 4 times and got just one answer "thanks we are finished for this year"...
So Mr. Netjets, IŽm a regular fan of yours, now the ball is in your field....and yeah, IŽd like a F2000 or GV Job please
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I get a feeling you have been kicked out and cannot live up to the fact that other people might like it at NetJets.....
Wrong.
Nice try though
Guess what? None of them was actually complaining...
I put my ear to the ground in Lisbon and did not hear of any managers that left other then a noisy yank with no understanding of the real world..
Last edited by Smeagel; 27th Jul 2005 at 18:34.
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Smeagel
Your pompous attitude is exactly the type of behaviour that gives this industry a bad name. I hope your negative attitiude and condescending remarks dont'e extend beyond the domain of pprune into the flight deck. If they do - I feel sorry for those who fly with you...
If you are so caught up with the down side of the job you can actually compile a list of thngs that are wrong with the Company; it's simpe - Quit! Leave the job and allow colleagues with more positive attitides take your place. Go and do a Business Management course then come back in three years with your new qualifications and solve all your problems.
If that's not possible, stop all the whining and whingeing and get on with your life and try to promote some nice vibes....!!!
Your pompous attitude is exactly the type of behaviour that gives this industry a bad name. I hope your negative attitiude and condescending remarks dont'e extend beyond the domain of pprune into the flight deck. If they do - I feel sorry for those who fly with you...
If you are so caught up with the down side of the job you can actually compile a list of thngs that are wrong with the Company; it's simpe - Quit! Leave the job and allow colleagues with more positive attitides take your place. Go and do a Business Management course then come back in three years with your new qualifications and solve all your problems.
If that's not possible, stop all the whining and whingeing and get on with your life and try to promote some nice vibes....!!!
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Trag, I'm just the messenger. Does being the bearer of some truths make me arrogant?
If we're doing character assessments I'd put you down as someone who has suffered at the hands of some poor captains rendering you bitter and twisted. Can't have been me though, I'm lovely. (Hang on. CRM references, airline management degrees........you're not the anti-christ of CRM from Lisbon are you? What car do you drive?).
But hey, opinions are like @rseholes right? Everyone has one.
If we're doing character assessments I'd put you down as someone who has suffered at the hands of some poor captains rendering you bitter and twisted. Can't have been me though, I'm lovely. (Hang on. CRM references, airline management degrees........you're not the anti-christ of CRM from Lisbon are you? What car do you drive?).
But hey, opinions are like @rseholes right? Everyone has one.
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Hey inca!!!
I wondered where you had got to. You disappeared right after I asked you to prove me wrong on the points made about T&C being changed.
You remember? You ducked the issue, tried to create a smokescreen by dishing out insults then disappeared. I had been inclined to let you slink off without taunting but as you're back of your own accord let us try again.
Was I lying? Come on. No more name calling. Tell the readers whether or not I was lying when I wrote about T&C being changed and imposed on crew.
This is going to be good................................
I wondered where you had got to. You disappeared right after I asked you to prove me wrong on the points made about T&C being changed.
You remember? You ducked the issue, tried to create a smokescreen by dishing out insults then disappeared. I had been inclined to let you slink off without taunting but as you're back of your own accord let us try again.
Was I lying? Come on. No more name calling. Tell the readers whether or not I was lying when I wrote about T&C being changed and imposed on crew.
This is going to be good................................
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I was at work.!
Yes, they were changed, not dramatically either,and I got an email saying they would . Long time ago that.
One always has the option of ending ones contract if you find you dont like the terms of your employment.
Cant you see that you are so very much in the minoroty in terms of this thread??
No company is perfect mate, there will always be gripes here and there. You know deep inside that NJE are not that bad to work for.
Said with a reluctant air of olive branching...mainly because I cant be ar$$ed to argue anymore. been a long tour.
with best regards etc
Yes, they were changed, not dramatically either,and I got an email saying they would . Long time ago that.
One always has the option of ending ones contract if you find you dont like the terms of your employment.
Cant you see that you are so very much in the minoroty in terms of this thread??
No company is perfect mate, there will always be gripes here and there. You know deep inside that NJE are not that bad to work for.
Said with a reluctant air of olive branching...mainly because I cant be ar$$ed to argue anymore. been a long tour.
with best regards etc
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So there we have it, inca admits that NJE does change the terms and conditions mid-contract.
But that's ok, because he got an email telling him it would be done. And it was a long time ago. And it was only making him work a couple more days a month. "Dear Inca, Just to let you know we're going to screw you again". Wow.
Interesting suggestion there inca, that you can always leave if you don't like your contract being changed. That rather brings us back to another point made earlier on which is that your contract is not worth the paper it is written on then, no? Can we agree this is true also?
If this is me 'taking a bashing' let's hope I don't start proving a few facts.
I think we're done here.
But that's ok, because he got an email telling him it would be done. And it was a long time ago. And it was only making him work a couple more days a month. "Dear Inca, Just to let you know we're going to screw you again". Wow.
Interesting suggestion there inca, that you can always leave if you don't like your contract being changed. That rather brings us back to another point made earlier on which is that your contract is not worth the paper it is written on then, no? Can we agree this is true also?
If this is me 'taking a bashing' let's hope I don't start proving a few facts.
I think we're done here.
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Well, I have to say I must go with Smeagel on this one. I am one of the lucky ones who has managed to escape NJE some time ago.
I also got an e-mail telling me that my contract is changed, not dramatically, just a 30% paycut or so. At the same time, many pilots received a pay increase, a few quids each. So the smoke screen said that in the new "salary review" most pilots actually get an increase. What a load of bollocks. I voted with my feet, and so would many of those who got the minute increase had they had half a chance. And many still will.
Of course, some people who don't know of anything better probably are quite happy with NJE. Good for them.
I also got an e-mail telling me that my contract is changed, not dramatically, just a 30% paycut or so. At the same time, many pilots received a pay increase, a few quids each. So the smoke screen said that in the new "salary review" most pilots actually get an increase. What a load of bollocks. I voted with my feet, and so would many of those who got the minute increase had they had half a chance. And many still will.
Of course, some people who don't know of anything better probably are quite happy with NJE. Good for them.
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Quote:
quote:
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Guess what? None of them was actually complaining...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So let me see. A perfect stranger approaches me and asks if I am happy. Do I a) spill my guts and tell him all the inside information or b) smile sweetly, say nice things and walk away?
No Sir, IŽd choose c)...
c) I just post inside info for all the well known guys on pprune, a very private and intimate webpage viewed only by those who can keep a secret...
I talked to a french, a dutch, a belgian and a finnish guy - none said its paradise, but all had a very similar background to mine and said that their life has improved considerably since they joined. No one was arguing about a paycut - so maybe they joined later ? My best GUESS about the paycut is, that they offered real good money in the begining to start the hole thing and since they still loose money they have to do something about it. So they take the fast lane and take it away from the employees. No news here, happened to many people in our industry (Lufthansa, Deutsche BA, PanAm, TWA, United etc.etc.)
If youŽre bitter - leave or fight for a better company style - thats what IŽd do.
I guess youŽre pissed because they changed a very good contract into a good contract - still I think its a better deal than most companies in exec offer...
I you want to, we can swop:
5300 Euro before taxes and insurances (2889 after) for an ATP,CRI/CRE, 6300hrs, 2 Jetratings brought with me,otherwise you pay for it,annual flightSafety BUT prorata payback if you leave, average 20 days of flying per month (they max you out at 23 days about 6 times), roughly 600 to 650 hours per annum, 6 weeks leave, german perdiems (average10 euros a day) oldest a/c 17 years newest 5 years old, 365/7/24 standby, no roster, get catering yourself, drive the hangar tractor yourself, clean the a/c yourself, fly very often with absolute newbies (nothing against them, just a lot of workload more than with experienced ones), donŽt call in sick or else...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guess what? None of them was actually complaining...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So let me see. A perfect stranger approaches me and asks if I am happy. Do I a) spill my guts and tell him all the inside information or b) smile sweetly, say nice things and walk away?
No Sir, IŽd choose c)...
c) I just post inside info for all the well known guys on pprune, a very private and intimate webpage viewed only by those who can keep a secret...
I talked to a french, a dutch, a belgian and a finnish guy - none said its paradise, but all had a very similar background to mine and said that their life has improved considerably since they joined. No one was arguing about a paycut - so maybe they joined later ? My best GUESS about the paycut is, that they offered real good money in the begining to start the hole thing and since they still loose money they have to do something about it. So they take the fast lane and take it away from the employees. No news here, happened to many people in our industry (Lufthansa, Deutsche BA, PanAm, TWA, United etc.etc.)
If youŽre bitter - leave or fight for a better company style - thats what IŽd do.
I guess youŽre pissed because they changed a very good contract into a good contract - still I think its a better deal than most companies in exec offer...
I you want to, we can swop:
5300 Euro before taxes and insurances (2889 after) for an ATP,CRI/CRE, 6300hrs, 2 Jetratings brought with me,otherwise you pay for it,annual flightSafety BUT prorata payback if you leave, average 20 days of flying per month (they max you out at 23 days about 6 times), roughly 600 to 650 hours per annum, 6 weeks leave, german perdiems (average10 euros a day) oldest a/c 17 years newest 5 years old, 365/7/24 standby, no roster, get catering yourself, drive the hangar tractor yourself, clean the a/c yourself, fly very often with absolute newbies (nothing against them, just a lot of workload more than with experienced ones), donŽt call in sick or else...
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No resignations? Absolutely none? Maybe you need to press that ear harder to the ground.
Get a life!