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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Xeptu 14th Sep 2020 11:07


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10884907)
Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
Two things that will change our position
A vaccine
A reliable quick test that can be used to better manage our border controls



A reliable quick test is being tested in Israel at the moment. Without looking up anything I did see a news item on it last week
on 3aw. It would provide a 30 sec result. It would be 98% accurate. Well lets hope it's a goer.
This will come out before any vaccine I reckon. If available it would open all borders (wether you like it or not premiers) crossing by car, bus, train, plane, at check in or at the crossings.
Your negative go through, your positive turn back and isolate. Probably still not good enough for the premiers.
Watching this space though.

We are very good at drug and alcohol detection in the workplace within our mining industry, we have zero tolerance yet they still keep turning up in full knowledge of that. These are small numbers and it's dealt with and managed well. That's still a problem though and it shouldn't be happening. A reliable quick test for covid would be no different.
Confidence that a plane load of passengers are arriving negative and proven on arrival would do it for me. I have no doubt it would do it for the greater majority too.
It would be a brave government that refused the decision of the greater majority in any state and in reality I don't believe they would.

michigan j 14th Sep 2020 11:10


Originally Posted by Bend alot (Post 10884880)
A 309 is a temporary visa (other) and they have paid many thousands of $'s and often waited 18+ months for that visa.

Any reason you singled that group?

Calm down.That is a direct cut and paste from the ABS "Key Statistics"

Bend alot 14th Sep 2020 11:40


Originally Posted by michigan j (Post 10884955)
Calm down.That is a direct cut and paste from the ABS "Key Statistics"

Then what do the 300 folk that are onshore meant to do?

Stats are only good if you understand a bit about them.

I do hope you will answer the 300 guys in a real bad time line position - I do not think they have any options but become illegal.

I know of only 2 cases that months ago got out and back in.

Many of the skilled visas were also granted long ago with PR and every right to enter.

Tourist visas (but that covers possibly many of Tom Hanks crew) is very low - I do not see the point of your post.

Sunfish 14th Sep 2020 19:42

The reason the international borders are closed is to avoid the arrival of millions of well heeled citizens of third world countries seeking an escape from their homeland covid epidemics.

Ragnor 14th Sep 2020 21:51

Queen P puts up $200 million for Virgin to remain in Brisbane, then she closes border virgin sack staff then claims she would rather loose election than open the border virgin sack more staff....mostly in Brisbane money well spent again QLD.

‘In the midst of the worst crisis’: up to 250 Virgin head office jobs face axe

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...896c?width=650Virgin Australia wide-body aircraft are seen grounded at the Brisbane Airport. Picture: Glenn HuntVirgin Australia has warned its recovery plans have been “severely impacted” by Victoria’s COVID-19 and ongoing border closures, informing staff the airline was likely to make up to 250 head office positions redundant.

In a note to staff on Monday, Virgin chief executive Paul Scurrah said the aviation industry was “in the midst of the worst crisis” it had ever faced.

“Our cash management throughout this period is absolutely critical,” Mr Scurrah wrote.

“One of our largest costs is labour, and with much less transitionary work required as the administration process is coming to an end and without the revenue coming through the door, we simply cannot justify the number of team members who are currently stood up.”

The redundancies will be the second since the airline was purchased by private equity outfit Bain Capital after it fell into administration in April as the coronavirus pandemic shuttered airports and left planes stranded.
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...fbf8?width=320Virgin chief executive Paul Scurrah at the company’s Southbank office. Picture: Tara CroserVirgin announced earlier this month it would make a third of its workforce — around 3000 people — redundant.

Mr Scurrah, who has remained the company’s chief executive through the Deloitte-run administration, said staff who had been stood down would likely remain so until March 2021, a position which would be reviewed in January.

‘Consultation will occur immediately for roles which are identified as no longer being required as a result of the smaller operation and reduced work,” Mr Scurrah wrote.

“We expect around 150 roles to be impacted in addition to the 250 head office roles that have recently been impacted within the operations division.”

But Virgin will also begin a comprehensive review of the way head office works, with Mr Scurrah suggesting it would be redesigned “to suit a smaller, simpler operation”.

“The reality is this will also have the regrettable impact of further job losses,” he wrote.

“I’m aware that for many of you it will feel like we have already done this … last year.

“However, the world and our business have significantly changed since then which must be addressed.”

Virgin last week permanently shut down its Tigerair budget brand after 13 years, although it will retain the air operator certificate so it can revive a low-cost carrier when the domestic travel market has recovered.

As part of Bain Capital’s plan, Virgin will simplify its fleet and largely operate Boeing 737s, removing ATRs, Boeing 777s, Airbus A330s and Airbus A320s.

Virgin’s larger rival, Qantas, has also made significant job cuts through the year. Most recently, it announced 2500 positions across Qantas and its Jetstar brand would be made redundant on top of 6000 jobs cut in June.

Qantas in August recorded a $2bn loss as the coronavirus pandemic pushed full-year revenue down by 21 per cent.

Qantas shares ended up three per cent on Monday at $3.94.

Bain Capital, which offered $3.5bn for Virgin, has had the backing of the Transport Workers Union after the private equity group gave commitments to keep the airline as a full-service carrier and not switch to a low-cost model.

Mr Scurrah told staff on Monday that it was “clear that the impacts of various government decisions to deal with COVID continue to subdue demand for flying”.

“With our current capacity sitting at around 10 per cent, which is supported by federal government subsidies to ensure some limited transportation infrastructure remains functional, the outlook has never been less certain.

“Regrettably, we must again take action to address the impact of this ongoing crisis on our business,” he said.

Sunfish 14th Sep 2020 23:25

This is just one. of many disappointments in store..

blubak 14th Sep 2020 23:27


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10885382)
Queen P puts up $200 million for Virgin to remain in Brisbane, then she closes border virgin sack staff then claims she would rather loose election than open the border virgin sack more staff....mostly in Brisbane money well spent again QLD.

‘In the midst of the worst crisis’: up to 250 Virgin head office jobs face axe

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...896c?width=650Virgin Australia wide-body aircraft are seen grounded at the Brisbane Airport. Picture: Glenn HuntVirgin Australia has warned its recovery plans have been “severely impacted” by Victoria’s COVID-19 and ongoing border closures, informing staff the airline was likely to make up to 250 head office positions redundant.

In a note to staff on Monday, Virgin chief executive Paul Scurrah said the aviation industry was “in the midst of the worst crisis” it had ever faced.

“Our cash management throughout this period is absolutely critical,” Mr Scurrah wrote.

“One of our largest costs is labour, and with much less transitionary work required as the administration process is coming to an end and without the revenue coming through the door, we simply cannot justify the number of team members who are currently stood up.”

The redundancies will be the second since the airline was purchased by private equity outfit Bain Capital after it fell into administration in April as the coronavirus pandemic shuttered airports and left planes stranded.
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...fbf8?width=320Virgin chief executive Paul Scurrah at the company’s Southbank office. Picture: Tara CroserVirgin announced earlier this month it would make a third of its workforce — around 3000 people — redundant.

Mr Scurrah, who has remained the company’s chief executive through the Deloitte-run administration, said staff who had been stood down would likely remain so until March 2021, a position which would be reviewed in January.

‘Consultation will occur immediately for roles which are identified as no longer being required as a result of the smaller operation and reduced work,” Mr Scurrah wrote.

“We expect around 150 roles to be impacted in addition to the 250 head office roles that have recently been impacted within the operations division.”

But Virgin will also begin a comprehensive review of the way head office works, with Mr Scurrah suggesting it would be redesigned “to suit a smaller, simpler operation”.

“The reality is this will also have the regrettable impact of further job losses,” he wrote.

“I’m aware that for many of you it will feel like we have already done this … last year.

“However, the world and our business have significantly changed since then which must be addressed.”

Virgin last week permanently shut down its Tigerair budget brand after 13 years, although it will retain the air operator certificate so it can revive a low-cost carrier when the domestic travel market has recovered.

As part of Bain Capital’s plan, Virgin will simplify its fleet and largely operate Boeing 737s, removing ATRs, Boeing 777s, Airbus A330s and Airbus A320s.

Virgin’s larger rival, Qantas, has also made significant job cuts through the year. Most recently, it announced 2500 positions across Qantas and its Jetstar brand would be made redundant on top of 6000 jobs cut in June.

Qantas in August recorded a $2bn loss as the coronavirus pandemic pushed full-year revenue down by 21 per cent.

Qantas shares ended up three per cent on Monday at $3.94.

Bain Capital, which offered $3.5bn for Virgin, has had the backing of the Transport Workers Union after the private equity group gave commitments to keep the airline as a full-service carrier and not switch to a low-cost model.

Mr Scurrah told staff on Monday that it was “clear that the impacts of various government decisions to deal with COVID continue to subdue demand for flying”.

“With our current capacity sitting at around 10 per cent, which is supported by federal government subsidies to ensure some limited transportation infrastructure remains functional, the outlook has never been less certain.

“Regrettably, we must again take action to address the impact of this ongoing crisis on our business,” he said.

So,she has given then the $200m or was it part of a deal that didnt happen?
If it has in fact already happened,maybe she now needs to explain why it wasnt instead put into local business including tourism,im sure those business people would like to hear why they didnt get any.

Stickshift3000 15th Sep 2020 00:56


Originally Posted by Sunfish (Post 10885307)
The reason the international borders are closed is to avoid the arrival of millions of well heeled citizens of third world countries seeking an escape from their homeland covid epidemics.

That I understand and agree with.

But why stop Aussies leaving if they agree to quarantine on return? I'd be out of here quicker than anything if I could leave.

KRviator 15th Sep 2020 01:07


Originally Posted by Stickshift3000 (Post 10885460)
That I understand and agree with.

But why stop Aussies leaving if they agree to quarantine on return? I'd be out of here quicker than anything if I could leave.

In WA's case it is one of capacity. They testified in the Palmer trial than can manage 7 hotels associated with COVID quarantine. They currently have 6 operating. So long as they continue to decree everyone entering WA must go through the quarantine process, irrespective of their risk factors, that in turn limits the percentage available for international travellers.

michigan j 15th Sep 2020 01:07


Originally Posted by Bend alot (Post 10884989)
Then what do the 300 folk that are onshore meant to do?

Stats are only good if you understand a bit about them.

I do hope you will answer the 300 guys in a real bad time line position - I do not think they have any options but become illegal.

I know of only 2 cases that months ago got out and back in.

Many of the skilled visas were also granted long ago with PR and every right to enter.

Tourist visas (but that covers possibly many of Tom Hanks crew) is very low - I do not see the point of your post..

The point of my post? To inform, and not allow people to jump to shrill and false conclusions.

This data includes the numbers of incoming Australians and non-Australians during the month of August, and also where they are from, and their citizenship and visa status, and provides comparisons with previous time periods.

It doesn't discuss anything else, including those who are already in Australia and who hold a valid visa. I am sorry you read the data as a slur on visa holders who might have been here for some years. It reflects negatively on your ability to comprehend a simple presentation of very basic information. The data does not touch on Tom Hanks or anything else. There are many forms of permanent and temporary visas, and this data does not differentiate between those types.

As for the 300 non-Australians whose visa will shortly expire, they will have to contemplate either getting another visa to stay, or a visa extension, or alternatively either leaving or staying illegally in Australia. Whilst flights are still leaving, there is no excuse for a temporary visa holder to stay illegally in Australia, and doing so will generally reflect negatively on that person in any future visa decisions. Of course I am sorry they are in a bad situation, but the pandemic has not changed this equation. Discussions about whether non-Australians with no income, visa, health cover or access to other support should stay in Australia is not what this data is about. There has never been a prohibition on non-Australians leaving Australia.

Again, this data only discusses the numbers and characteristics of people traveling to Australia during August.

neville_nobody 15th Sep 2020 01:18


If it has in fact already happened,maybe she now needs to explain why it wasnt instead put into local business including tourism,im sure those business people would like to hear why they didnt get any.
.

Because local business is not sexy and usually don't hired large unionised work forces.

Chronic Snoozer 15th Sep 2020 01:25

Here's a statistic. No cases for 5 months but still in lockdown. Discuss.

Mildura

Turnleft080 15th Sep 2020 01:31


Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer (Post 10885478)
Here's a statistic. No cases for 5 months but still in lockdown. Discuss.

Mildura

Well for starters, that 30,000 votes that won't be going to labor.
They won't forget this come election 2022.

Ladloy 15th Sep 2020 01:48


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10885479)
Well for starters, that 30,000 votes that won't be going to labor.
They won't forget this come election 2022.

I hope that's sarcasm. 2022 in the media/election cycle is an eternity away.
Remember the labor and lib branch stacking? The sports rort? The water scandal which probably has implications in Mildura? What about Morrison going on a holiday at the peak of the bushfires?
The Murdoch narrative will have their say when we get there.

michigan j 15th Sep 2020 02:06


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 10885483)
The Murdoch narrative will have their say when we get there.

As TurnLeft says "that 30 000 votes not going to Labor"

Maggie Island 15th Sep 2020 02:08


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 10885483)
I hope that's sarcasm. 2022 in the media/election cycle is an eternity away.
Remember the labor and lib branch stacking? The sports rort? The water scandal which probably has implications in Mildura? What about Morrison going on a holiday at the peak of the bushfires?
The Murdoch narrative will have their say when we get there.

The Libs do have the option of calling it as early as Aug 21, and thats assuming theres no Double D trickery to make it earlier! Either way many commentators have touted the second half of 2021as the likely slot for the election.

KRviator 15th Sep 2020 02:23


Originally Posted by michigan j (Post 10884955)
Calm down.That is a direct cut and paste from the ABS "Key Statistics"

The other noteworthy thing about those statistics is the percentage of arrivals based on state when viewed against the actual percentage of the Australian population of the state. Ana-StayAway "I'll do anything to protect Queenslanders, even if it means not pulling our weight to make sure I get re-elected" is doing her thing. WA has, at least, stepped up a bit from the previous months, yet everyone is quite happy to lock out NSW residents, even though they are carrying nearly 2/3rds of international arrivals, with the attendant risks that entails...

Originally Posted by The ABS - August Arrivals
% Arrivals / % Oz Population
NSW 62.6 / 31.9
WA 13.9 / 10.3
QLD 13.3 / 20.1
VIC 0.5 / 26.1
SA 7.3 / 6.9
NT 2.5 / 1
ACT 0 / 1.7
TAS 0 / 2.1


Originally Posted by The ABS - July arrivals
% Arrivals / % Oz Population
NSW 61.3 / 31.9
WA 15.9 / 10.3
QLD 16.2 / 20.1
VIC 0.2 / 26.1
SA 2.1 / 6.9
NT 4.3 / 1
ACT 0.1 / 1.7
TAS 0 / 2.1


exfocx 15th Sep 2020 03:06


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 10884717)
The WA CHO has testified the health system there can cope with a COVID case load of 5,000 active cases, made up of 500 new cases a day, 650 in wards and 124 in ICU. Doesn't sound like "can't cope" to me...


You love to quote numbers, yet you have shown a potential lack of understanding of the data / stats you quote. You still haven't responded to my request on your av life expectancy misunderstanding!

Back in late March WA had 164 icu beds, don't know if thats changed. What happens to the rest of the patients who need ICU beds if 124 are taken up by cv patients? Wasn't this the whole reason of preventing a large outbreak, to prevent the system from being overloaded, not just bed numbers, but staff as well?

Everyone seems to expect the Best Possible Outcome, economically and infection / deaths etc, that just isn't possible given that it appears to be a very difficult to model precisely.


exfocx 15th Sep 2020 03:10


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 10885493)
The other noteworthy thing about those statistics is the percentage of arrivals based on state when viewed against the actual percentage of the Australian population of the state. Ana-StayAway "I'll do anything to protect Queenslanders, even if it means not pulling our weight to make sure I get re-elected" is doing her thing. WA has, at least, stepped up a bit from the previous months, yet everyone is quite happy to lock out NSW residents, even though they are carrying nearly 2/3rds of international arrivals, with the attendant risks that entails...

Just so you understand, as Paul Bongiorno points out at the New Daily, international quarantine is a Federal responsibility.

exfocx 15th Sep 2020 03:15


Originally Posted by Bend alot (Post 10884265)
No actually I have not, I have heard it is way too early (a few years) to know that economic result.

Sorry Sir Bend alot, not totally correct! Yes, if you're considering what may transpire over the next 5 yrs, but the present data on deaths Vs economic damage as televised by Alan Kohler and others is that > deaths = > economic damage.


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