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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

slats11 15th Sep 2020 03:34

WA has about 500 ICU beds - public, private, plus surge capacity of 200 new beds (and 300 vents) which started to be added in March.

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.a...ical-care.aspx


That said, I understand the logistics of covering a large state, remote communities, and the difficulty getting clinical staff from interstate if WA gets swamped.


Chronic Snoozer 15th Sep 2020 06:14

McGowan get help

:rolleyes:

michigan j 15th Sep 2020 08:22

Next you'll tell me that the WA government used taxpayer money to assist the building of the Crown complex with 1900 Hotel rooms, but has run out of capacity to hold (checks notes) 525 people per week.
I guess those 525 people would generally represent about 250 rooms once you think that a lot would be in families.

But sure, time to open the prisons and detention centres I guess.

Bend alot 15th Sep 2020 09:53


Originally Posted by exfocx (Post 10885504)
Sorry Sir Bend alot, not totally correct! Yes, if you're considering what may transpire over the next 5 yrs, but the present data on deaths Vs economic damage as televised by Alan Kohler and others is that > deaths = > economic damage.

The longer term economic result of countries actions to Covid-19 will take a few years - but if you want to say > (greater) deaths = > (greater) economic damage on present data = Sweden is the worst model of pretty much any nation on the globe.

I shall wait for more data, but I still think Sweden did pretty bad considering they had a pretty big "unofficial" lock-down.

Turnleft080 15th Sep 2020 13:02

Well I watched Dan's presser today full of smirks and praises for regional Vic I'm a winer. It's all my doing.
Though when he spoke about Melbourne still got that couldn't give a rats attitude. Really emphasises the ring of steal
police state, a 14 day period of less than 50, then a 14 day period of 5. That's another 6 weeks of lockdown if that works.
The government is just a one man show. My way or the highway. Fear mongering at it's best.
As Sunfish said a control freak a pain inflicter. He won't lose the next election because he will walk and
take his pension. leave the economic destruction for someone else to fix.
I think of the Tenerife accident and he's got that similar attitude as the KLM captain.

Ragnor 15th Sep 2020 22:07

SA want 14 days no community transmission, Queen P has been reported as following suit announcement to come later in the week. Say if NSW goes 14 days they open business and airlines are already behind as it will take a 2-3 weeks to advertise sell tickets etc. First day of interstate travel there is a community transmission in NSW, does Queen P slam the border shut and SA close up again?

blubak 15th Sep 2020 22:30


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10885815)
Well I watched Dan's presser today full of smirks and praises for regional Vic I'm a winer. It's all my doing.
Though when he spoke about Melbourne still got that couldn't give a rats attitude. Really emphasises the ring of steal
police state, a 14 day period of less than 50, then a 14 day period of 5. That's another 6 weeks of lockdown if that works.
The government is just a one man show. My way or the highway. Fear mongering at it's best.
As Sunfish said a control freak a pain inflicter. He won't lose the next election because he will walk and
take his pension. leave the economic destruction for someone else to fix.
I think of the Tenerife accident and he's got that similar attitude as the KLM captain.

Yeh spot on,funny he hasnt mentioned he didnt put any of his so called security guards into hotels to enforce quarantine in regional victoria,his big f up in melbourne has caused all this but like you say he doesnt give a toss about melbourne now.

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 15th Sep 2020 23:39

A recent poll with 140,000 respondents by Channel 9 showed 71% of respondents in favour of the lockdown being extended. The vast majority of victorians don’t watch sky news and understand that opening up too quickly would simply trigger a third wave.

the same pole was latter hijacked by bots to flip the result (10,000 no votes from the same IP address being one example), leading to nine removing the pole.

KRviator 16th Sep 2020 01:01


Originally Posted by exfocx (Post 10885501)
You love to quote numbers, yet you have shown a potential lack of understanding of the data / stats you quote. You still haven't responded to my request on your av life expectancy misunderstanding!

Because the numbers are what they are. They don't lie. As for your fascination with my lack of reply, I hadn't bothered to reply because no matter the expected life expectancy when you attain 80 years of age, you are (typically) still retired, (typically) not contributing to the economy beyond your groceries and fuel purchases and arguing over whether you would expect to die at 86 or 96 or any particular age doesn't contribute to the issue whereby the average age of COVID deaths (in Australia) at the time of writing is 86 years old. Even if we accept the US data, it would mean an effective saving of what? 2,3, maybe 5 years at whatever the life-year-cost is, which renders your point essentially, meaningless in context.


Originally Posted by exfpcx
Everyone seems to expect the Best Possible Outcome, economically and infection / deaths etc, that just isn't possible given that it appears to be a very difficult to model precisely.

Everyone except the CHO's, who seem to be only focused exclusively on the worst possible outcomes. "What if it gets into WA, and what if there is an outbreak and what if that outbreak becomes uncontrolled then it could be catastrophic....yadda yadda."

Yes, if it met all those conditions, I agree. But the chances of that happening, with proper precautions taken, are slim. That has been found, legally, in the Palmer trial. Dual engine failures on a turbine twin, wile extremely rare, still happen, but with proper precautions they are allowed to fly several hours away, overwater even, from the nearest suitable diversion airport, even though a dual failure could still occur.


Originally Posted by exfocx (Post 10885503)
Just so you understand, as Paul Bongiorno points out at the New Daily, international quarantine is a Federal responsibility.

It does not matter whose responsibility it is. Because, as above, the data doesn't lie. If you have nearly 2/3rds of international arrivals coming in via NSW, then you need more staff to manage those arrivals, and those additional staff have a higher chance of being infected with COVID and thus passing it to their close contacts. We've seen recent cases in the NSW Health System where ED staff have caught it, and they are arguably the most experienced front-line workers in the state when it comes to infection control.

If we accept the premise that it is a federal responsibility then the Federal Government owes a duty to the residents of NSW (and others where the %age is disproportionate) to hold the other states to account over their penalising those residents. It is all well and good for the Qld CHO to declare "We won't open the border until there is 28 days of no community transmission", but conventionally overlook the number of arrivals. Were NSW to outlaw international arrivals completely, like Tasmania has done, then sure, they could easily achieve that figure. But there's next to no possibility while there is chance of infection through the hotel quarantine program.

Qld has locked out ACT residents even though they have a better track record than Qld. "Oh, but they commute from outside the ACT into the ACT, and they could bring the Pestilence with them" says Dr Young. I invite you to look at the NSW COVID Map by postcode, scroll down to Canberra and select the recent button. No recent cases within cooee, yet they are still locked out of Qld. "Border closures are based on risk!" Pigs asre they are. As Chronic Snoozerposted above "It's risk avoidance not risk management. Like aviation, things would all be a lot safer if we just all stayed at home.". After-all, Qld has recent confirmed cases of COVID, we should lock down the state to make sure those AFL players don't catch it in their 5-star luxury quarantine hotel...

Climb150 16th Sep 2020 01:07

The rest of the world will be on the other side and recovering while Australia is still hiding with all the doors and windows locked.

Stickshift3000 16th Sep 2020 02:08


Originally Posted by blubak (Post 10886192)
Yeh spot on,funny he hasnt mentioned he didnt put any of his so called security guards into hotels to enforce quarantine in regional victoria,his big f up in melbourne has caused all this but like you say he doesnt give a toss about melbourne now.

No hotels were used in regional Vic for quarantine; they were only used for international arrivals.

Actually, there was a hotel used in Portland for international ships at port. This hotel was guarded by prison & corrective services officers, as it was utilised after private security firms were shown the door.

blubak 16th Sep 2020 02:58


Originally Posted by Stickshift3000 (Post 10886281)
No hotels were used in regional Vic for quarantine; they were only used for international arrivals.

Actually, there was a hotel used in Portland for international ships at port. This hotel was guarded by prison & corrective services officers, as it was utilised after private security firms were shown the door.

Thats what i said'he didnt put any in regional vic' & if he had he now wouldnt be able to bleat about how good regional vic is.
If he had used his supposed top class security system in regional vic they too would be suffering like we are due to his incompetence

exfocx 16th Sep 2020 03:54


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 10886248)
Because the numbers are what they are. They don't lie. As for your fascination with my lack of reply, I hadn't bothered to reply because no matter the expected life expectancy when you attain 80 years of age, you are (typically) still retired, (typically) not contributing to the economy beyond your groceries and fuel purchases and arguing over whether you would expect to die at 86 or 96 or any particular age doesn't contribute to the issue whereby the average age of COVID deaths (in Australia) at the time of writing is 86 years old. Even if we accept the US data, it would mean an effective saving of what? 2,3, maybe 5 years at whatever the life-year-cost is, which renders your point essentially, meaningless in context. Again your ignorance of 'average' is astounding. These people have paid their taxes and the fact they're no longer paying tax is irrelevant, that age group is the one that built this country suffering the effects of the depression, WW2 and fought in Korea, not whiney brats such as yourself. You are a narcissistic individual.

Everyone except the CHO's, who seem to be only focused exclusively on the worst possible outcomes. "What if it gets into WA, and what if there is an outbreak and what if that outbreak becomes uncontrolled then it could be catastrophic....yadda yadda." Again your ignorance is on display. The "what ifs" have been widely publicised and you still cannot fathom the outcome!

Yes, if it met all those conditions, I agree. But the chances of that happening, with proper precautions taken, are slim. Same again, you've already shown you have no understandingThat has been found, legally, in the Palmer trial. Again acting the Lawyer with no understanding of the law and likely misquoting because you've also shown you don't understand context, in whatever the situation is: medical, legal, statistical.Dual engine failures on a turbine twin, wile extremely rare, still happen, but with proper precautions they are allowed to fly several hours away, overwater even, from the nearest suitable diversion airport, even though a dual failure could still occur. Oh PLEASE, stick to choo choo trains. Talk about overreach!

It does not matter whose responsibility it is. Because, as above, the data doesn't lie. Again, pretending you understand data, you've already shown your ignorance there. If you have nearly 2/3rds of international arrivals coming in via NSW, then you need more staff to manage those arrivals, and those additional staff have a higher chance of being infected with COVID and thus passing it to their close contacts. We've seen recent cases in the NSW Health System where ED staff have caught it, and they are arguably the most experienced front-line workers in the state when it comes to infection control.

If we accept the premise that it is a federal responsibility then the Federal Government owes a duty to the residents of NSW (and others where the %age is disproportionate) to hold the other states to account over their penalising those residents. Showing your constitutional ignorance, again. It is all well and good for the Qld CHO to declare "We won't open the border until there is 28 days of no community transmission", but conventionally overlook the number of arrivals. Were NSW to outlaw international arrivals completely, like Tasmania has done, then sure, they could easily achieve that figure. But there's next to no possibility while there is chance of infection through the hotel quarantine program.

Qld has locked out ACT residents even though they have a better track record than Qld. "Oh, but they commute from outside the ACT into the ACT, and they could bring the Pestilence with them" says Dr Young. I invite you to look at the NSW COVID Map by postcode, scroll down to Canberra and select the recent button. No recent cases within cooee, yet they are still locked out of Qld. "Border closures are based on risk!" Pigs asre they are. You've already shown you have no understanding of basic stats, so I doubt you could quantify risk fullstop. As Chronic Snoozerposted above "It's risk avoidance not risk management. Like aviation, things would all be a lot safer if we just all stayed at home.". A meaningless statement. After-all, Qld has recent confirmed cases of COVID, we should lock down the state to make sure those AFL players don't catch it in their 5-star luxury quarantine hotel...

A lot of meaningless verbiage. You keep going on about "the data" but time and again you show all you can do is regurgitate "data" with no understanding. Basically you didn't respond because you didn't understand and you needed 5 days to think up a non response.

I'm fairly certain the QLD CHO has forgotten more about "data" than you have ever understood.

currawong 16th Sep 2020 09:40

The numbers are trending well in VIC.

Regardless of what is said here, the rest of the nation IS wishing you all well and that the trend can be maintained.

Western Europe looks to be in for another hammering.

With luck and hard work, that can continue to be avoided here.

All the best, wherever you are.


Chronic Snoozer 16th Sep 2020 10:04


Originally Posted by exfocx (Post 10886300)

I'm fairly certain the QLD CHO has forgotten more about "data" than you have ever understood.

Obviously not the amount of money the likes of Tom Hanks and the AFL plus hangers on bring in to Queensland coffers.

Turnleft080 16th Sep 2020 10:15


Originally Posted by currawong (Post 10886429)
The numbers are trending well in VIC.

Regardless of what is said here, the rest of the nation IS wishing you all well and that the trend can be maintained.

Western Europe looks to be in for another hammering.

With luck and hard work, that can continue to be avoided here.

All the best, wherever you are.

Thanks bro however western europe has an interesting trend this time round.
If you check UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, and others even the USA on worldometers you find the cases are increasing dramatically
though deaths have pretty much flatlined. If the gap continues to increase between these two lines, the better. It means the virus is starting to wane
it gets weaker when it effects more. Just how viruses were meant to work.
The most ironic thing about this virus is it will eventually die itself out. When that happens the vaccine will be just about ready.
If the whole world let it rip and you protect the elderly covid would of finished 2 months ago.
If you lockdown the whole world then you prolong the virus to die out. ie flatten the curve.
End of the day same deaths.


Slezy9 16th Sep 2020 10:34


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10886455)
It means the virus is starting to wane
it gets weaker when it effects more. Just how viruses were meant to work.

So how come HIV/ AIDS hasn’t died out? Or the seasonal flu? They are both viruses.

Meant to work according to who?

Turnleft080 16th Sep 2020 10:45


Originally Posted by Slezy9 (Post 10886474)
So how come HIV/ AIDS hasn’t died out? Or the seasonal flu? They are both viruses.

Meant to work according to who?

Hiv/aids is a blood disease. Spread by infected needles. You don't breath that in.
Seasonal flu does die out though it mutates into another strain the following year.



Slezy9 16th Sep 2020 10:55


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10886486)
Hiv/aids is a blood disease. Spread by infected needles. You don't breath that in.
Seasonal flu does die out though it mutates into another strain the following year.

Do you have any peer reviewed papers to back up your claim that “viruses just die out”?

Ragnor 16th Sep 2020 11:30


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10886486)
Spread by infected needles.

Maybe go back to med school also. Few other ways that it gets transmitted


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