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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

goodonyamate 16th Nov 2020 19:59

Only 1 case in SA from yesterday’s testing blitz. Obviously more results to be processed but the premier seemed pretty positive.

rattman 16th Nov 2020 20:20


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10928098)
Queen P must be frothing at the mouth

Just like you are

WhisprSYD 16th Nov 2020 21:01


Originally Posted by goodonyamate (Post 10928150)
Only 1 case in SA from yesterday’s testing blitz. Obviously more results to be processed but the premier seemed pretty positive.

well done if it’s contained that quickly.

poor form by the states clicking their fingers and shutting their borders at the whiff of a cluster. Only 3 states I’d be confident booking a holiday in the next 6 months would be NSW, VIC and SA funnily enough.

myshoutcaptain 16th Nov 2020 21:53


Originally Posted by WhisprSYD (Post 10928200)
well done if it’s contained that quickly.

poor form by the states clicking their fingers and shutting their borders at the whiff of a cluster. Only 3 states I’d be confident booking a holiday in the next 6 months would be NSW, VIC and SA funnily enough.

Not if you live in WA.

Crew who passed through ADL since Nov 7 have been given retrospective 14 days isolation in WA. Great job Marko.:mad::mad:

Turnleft080 17th Nov 2020 00:36


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10928098)
Queen P must be frothing at the mouth today that she slammed the border shut. Seeing QLD is only capable of making one decision a month we will reconvene 26th December or will they be taking the public holiday off?

The reason she's frothing from the month she gets her medical advice from the journal of Trump. Pine-O-clean injections does the trick.
Don't get me wrong, she is not a communist or a socialist, she is a trumpunist. When she has a press conference she smiles and talks at the same time meaning,
"Were gonna make QLD great again. I'm so glad Donald won't be stuck in the White House for the next 4 years because we could use him subdividing and making division in this country.
Building walls are making a come back, we have seen the ring of steel around Melbourne so we are seriously looking at a 10m wall
at the border so we can keep those NSW/VIC illegals, covid lepers, and any other horrible diseases from entering the greatest state on the planet."

Funny dream that one, Brisbane Airport plane spotters if you see a Trump 757 on the tarmac please report it immediately.


rattman 17th Nov 2020 01:58


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10928294)
The reason she's frothing from the month she gets her medical advice from the journal of Trump. Pine-O-clean injections does the trick.
Don't get me wrong, she is not a communist or a socialist, she is a trumpunist. .

Dude lay off the drugs, they are messing with your brain

dr dre 17th Nov 2020 05:29

Prominent epidemiologists now calling for the ending of international arrival hotel quarantine in the middle of cities:

South Australian cluster shows we need to stop hotel quarantine in cities: epidemiologist


Infectious diseases expert and epidemiologist Mary-Louise McLaws told Virginia Trioli the Adelaide cluster shows why hotel quarantine programs should be shut down in favour of purpose built quarantine stations.
"Hotel quarantines were a great idea to get Australians and residents back home, but it should only have been an interim idea," Professor McLaws said.
"We do need to start thinking about a purpose built environment."
South Australia’s COVID outbreak - Adrian Esterman Professor of Biostatistics and Epidemiology, University of South Australia


In a situation like this, we should ask why we continue to operate high-risk quarantine hotels in the middle of a city. It would be much safer to quarantine people away from communities, like we did on Christmas Island earlier in the pandemic.

Ragnor 17th Nov 2020 05:58

What’s your proposal? If they can’t arrive via Sydney which over half do who else do you sentence to take these infectious ppl. Maybe WA could take a few more send them to an outback station oh but they wouldn’t do that would they.

jrfsp 17th Nov 2020 06:26

The helpful solution is if the Feds took ownership and stood up Defense bases. Plenty of these have transport solutions and capacity to build temporary housing. Staffed using defense personnel / medics, with repatriation to the nearest major city following 2 weeks isolation. RAAF Learmonth, Curtin, Scherger, Tindal at a minimum.

Square Bear 17th Nov 2020 07:20

jrfsp,

I wouldn’t want the see military bases used for Covid Isolation at all, I would prefer those that might be called upon to defend the country to be as far removed from Covid as possible.

Take google search tour relating to US Carriers Roosevelt and Reagan to consider what might occur should our Defence Forces be in a position to contract Covid.

Malakor1 17th Nov 2020 08:03


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 10928376)
The helpful solution is if the Feds took ownership and stood up Defense bases. Plenty of these have transport solutions and capacity to build temporary housing. Staffed using defense personnel / medics, with repatriation to the nearest major city following 2 weeks isolation. RAAF Learmonth, Curtin, Scherger, Tindal at a minimum.

Probably harder to enact than you think. RAAF Learmonth is used frequently by various squadrons and when they isolated some people there earlier this year before transporting them to Christmas it caused a lot of hassle with ADF members not able to use the facilities for up to 2 weeks after they left.

RAAF Tindal is an active fighter base with most members living on base with their families - not a great move.

Scherger and Curtin are bare bases and have minimal if any facilities in place. I guess the government could build a tin city of dongas but would need significant investment.

KRviator 17th Nov 2020 08:15


Originally Posted by Malakor1 (Post 10928457)
Probably harder to enact that you. RAAF Learmonth is used frequently by various squadrons and when they isolated some people there earlier this year before transporting them to Christmas it caused a lot of hassle with ADF members not able to use the facilities for up to 2 weeks after they left.

RAAF Tindal is an active fighter base with most members living on base with their families - not a great move.

Scherger and Curtin are bare bases and have minimal if any facilities in place. I guess the government could build a tin city of donnas but would need significant investment.

Nothing wrong with Scheger. Spent many a week there in a previous life, both wearing the spots and dots and with Ronny. Plenty of demountables, or at least, there were, and if not, there's plenty of space for 11x11's and stretchers in the aircraft shelters. Depends how badly people want to come home, and how much ownership the Fed's want to take...

"What's that, Mr & Ms returning citizen? You don't want to sleep in a tent for a fortnight? That's fine, no hard feelings. When COVID is beaten, once and for all, you're welcome to come home then. But until that time, the door's closed...."

If I were running things, that's exactly what I'd do...A bunch of tents in half the shelters, meals served in hot-boxes the same way diggers get them in the field and some movies on a projector at night. It's not meant to be a bloody holiday but a means to get you home without bringing the pestilence with you. Given the choice between being stuck overseas wishing I was home, or sleeping on a cot at Scherger for 2 weeks, I know what I'd rather!

Ragnor 17th Nov 2020 18:55

Looking like Morro xmas dream is coming to a screaming halt! WA and QLD SLAMMING (not sure why the media need to use that word) their borders shut, it would appear the only place that looks like getting a look in is Victoria ironically. Forget about WA for NSW that guy is on a crazy power trip and is getting a kick out of this as for SA and NSW can't meet QLD ridiculous 28 days by the one day a month that Queen P can make a decision on the 26th. Why does the WA and QLD CMOs have vast differences in medical advise than other in the country and even the Fed CMO I'm sure they have read the same books.

One thing is certain now the public's confidant's in Australia, if thats what we call our self, will be gone for the long term due to lack of confidence at these borders being closed mid flight.

blubak 17th Nov 2020 19:13


Originally Posted by goodonyamate (Post 10928150)
Only 1 case in SA from yesterday’s testing blitz. Obviously more results to be processed but the premier seemed pretty positive.

5 new cases in SA yesterday with a RECORD 6000 tests.
Wonder what the usual daily test figures are?
Victoria constantly gets caned for whatever reason by a couple of dilusional premiers but why dont we hear about the low testing rates in some of these states.

Ragnor 17th Nov 2020 19:41


Originally Posted by blubak (Post 10928985)
5 new cases in SA yesterday with a RECORD 6000 tests.
Wonder what the usual daily test figures are?
Victoria constantly gets caned for whatever reason by a couple of dilusional premiers but why dont we hear about the low testing rates in some of these states.


Those testing rates are very good for SA their average is 1400-2000 just like Queen P. But if you go off the capital city population, yesterday for example ML tested 0.35% of their population 17,412 test with just under 5 million people, Sydney only did 8588 with a population 5.2 million little under 0.16% (thats very low for SY usually around 0.32%) Adelaide 6000 test with 1.3 million 0.45% so pretty good.

rattman 17th Nov 2020 20:20


Originally Posted by Malakor1 (Post 10928457)

Scherger and Curtin are bare bases and have minimal if any facilities in place. I guess the government could build a tin city of dongas but would need significant investment.

Theres are lots tourist islands that could be repurposed. From the start I was thinking that getting chartered aircraft fly them in scherger where the passengers go through immigration and initial medical screening and testing. From there loaded onto smaller aircraft and flown to hamiliton where they quarantine or transferred to other islands or remote inland facilities. While the hamiliton island might have issues with their island being turned into a "plague island" they might not. The thing about hamilion is its reletively close to major medical center in townsville also a large military bases around for support

Green.Dot 17th Nov 2020 20:25


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 10929021)
Theres are lots tourist islands that could be repurposed. From the start I was thinking that getting chartered aircraft fly them in scherger where the passengers go through immigration and initial medical screening and testing. From there loaded onto smaller aircraft and flown to hamiliton where they quarantine or transferred to other islands or remote inland facilities. While the hamiliton island might have issues with their island being turned into a "plague island" they might not. The thing about hamilion is its reletively close to major medical center in townsville also a large military bases around for support

I’d say that’s a more appropriate idea than KRviator’s idea of “all sitting around and watching a movie on a projector at night” at a RAAF bare base. Can’t see that meeting the pub test of keeping people isolated from each other.

I hope the Federal Govt is exploring all options. The cost of getting something like this operational is minuscule compared to another Melbourne style lockdown.

Global Aviator 17th Nov 2020 20:55


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 10929021)
Theres are lots tourist islands that could be repurposed. From the start I was thinking that getting chartered aircraft fly them in scherger where the passengers go through immigration and initial medical screening and testing. From there loaded onto smaller aircraft and flown to hamiliton where they quarantine or transferred to other islands or remote inland facilities. While the hamiliton island might have issues with their island being turned into a "plague island" they might not. The thing about hamilion is its reletively close to major medical center in townsville also a large military bases around for support

Plenty of private options, the States and Territories and feds have been given countless viable propositions. Most ignored. It doesn’t help how states, territories and feds don’t play together nicely. Some worse than others as we have seen. So much hypocrisy and double standards.

jrfsp 18th Nov 2020 02:00

It is likely we'll have another 12 months of quarantine, we cannot afford more shutdowns.
Yet the fed gov does nothing to move away from the CBD hotel process.

SOPS 18th Nov 2020 02:08

Seems to be a recurring theme. Person from large migrant family, working as hotel security guard and in other jobs, gets infected and spreads virus to family and others through contact in their other job.

It’s Victoria all over again.

dr dre 18th Nov 2020 02:35


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10929149)
Seems to be a recurring theme. Person from large migrant family, working as hotel security guard and in other jobs, gets infected and spreads virus to family and others through contact in their other job.

It’s Victoria all over again.

It's because Australians aren't willing to do that dirty work or aren't willing to pay the price to and expect it to be done on the cheap, so cheaper migrant labour has to be used. They live together because they are paid so poorly it's the only way they can survive. They probably don't have a car so need to take public transport to and from work, further increasing risk of spread. Might be working on casual contracts without sick leave if they attempt to call in sick. Might be concerned about their visa situation if they fail to show to work.

Don't blame them for the employment situation Australians have created. The Federal Government wants hotel quarantine done on the cheap in the easiest place, major city CBD hotels with cheap labour. They should be using more remote locations. Epidemiologists agree. The Federal Government doesn't want to spend the money they need to so we can have a safe quarantine system.

rattman 18th Nov 2020 02:36


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10928971)
Looking like Morro xmas dream is coming to a screaming halt! WA and QLD SLAMMING .

Shitting on AP for closing the border and yet here is SA going into a tougher lockdown that VIC. Man I would hate to be as wrong as often as you are

Buster Hyman 18th Nov 2020 02:47


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10929155)
The Federal Government wants hotel quarantine done on the cheap in the easiest place, major city CBD hotels with cheap labour. They should be using more remote locations. Epidemiologists agree. The Federal Government doesn't want to spend the money they need to so we can have a safe quarantine system.

Oh, so the Feds have taken over the State's responsibilities? Missed that on the news. Might want to let Comrade Dan know so he can claim back the Millions he paid to that security firm.

dr dre 18th Nov 2020 03:04


Originally Posted by Buster Hyman (Post 10929158)
Oh, so the Feds have taken over the State's responsibilities? Missed that on the news.

Australian Constitution:s51 The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power12 to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:
(ix) Quarantine
(xix) Naturalization and aliens;
(xxvii) immigration and emigration


In addition to Border control and Biosecurity. It's the Federal Government which operates facilities like Christmas Island and military bases.

The Feds have delegated this task to the states, and show no inclination to take charge with their resources when it's obvious the current situation (major CBD hotel quarantine) is causing national problems. From now on this situation should be dealt with with a coordinated national approach with the Federal Government stepping up to be real leaders with a Federally managed remote quarantine program.

Green.Dot 18th Nov 2020 03:37


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 10929156)
Shitting on AP for closing the border and yet here is SA going into a tougher lockdown that VIC. Man I would hate to be as wrong as often as you are

There is a big difference between indefinite border closures and a wise lockdown Rat.

And I’ll take an extreme lockdown lasting 6 days over a 4 month emotional extravaganza any day.

rattman 18th Nov 2020 04:15


Originally Posted by Green.Dot (Post 10929168)
There is a big difference between indefinite border closures and a wise lockdown Rat.

And I’ll take an extreme lockdown lasting 6 days over a 4 month emotional extravaganza any day.

I would take a 4 month border closure and being able to goto a cafe and have an effectively unchanged life over the a 14 day (not 6) day lockdown

Green.Dot 18th Nov 2020 04:51


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 10929175)
I would take a 4 month border closure and being able to goto a cafe and have an effectively unchanged life over the a 14 day (not 6) day lockdown

Well if the border closure doesn’t effect you (which I find interesting since you likely are a professional pilot on this forum) keep voting for McClown or Queen P and enjoy that latte

Buster Hyman 18th Nov 2020 05:05


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10929163)
Australian Constitution:s51 The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power12 to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:
(ix) Quarantine
(xix) Naturalization and aliens;
(xxvii) immigration and emigration

You're oversimplifying S51. That's also one of two references to 'quarantine' in the Constitution. If it were that simple, the States could've saved a fortune.

Whilst the Biosecurity Act has superseded Quarantine Act, there's much too much to cross reference to find a definitive answer. The Australian Emergency Management Arrangements, whilst also a simple document, manages to be devoid of 'Legal Speak'. It contains the following references;

In Australia, state and territory governments have primary responsibility for protecting life, property and environment within their borders. State and territory governments establish plans and arrangements for most of the functions essential for effective emergency management (prevention and mitigation, preparedness, response and recovery) and in the interests of community safety and well being.
And...

The roles of the Australian Government in emergency management are to:
• build and promote resilience to emergencies
support a state or territory, where the emergency response overwhelms their resources and arrangements and Australian Government assistance has been requested
jointly manage, with an affected state or territory, an emergency that has the potential to affect/has affected: more than one jurisdiction, the broader community or Australian Govt areas of responsibility; or is of national consequence (e.g. pandemic...)
take primary responsibility for coordinating the response to an emergency that is not the responsibility of a state or territory (e.g. an emergency outside Australia that significantly affects Australians or Australian interests)
support the states and territories through cost sharing arrangements to alleviate the financial burden associated with the provision of emergency relief and recovery services and activities
• where necessary, provide direct assistance to affected communities

On a side note, I stumbled across this in the Constitution;

117. Rights of residents in States

A subject of the Queen, resident in any State, shall not be subject in any other State to any disability or discrimination which would not be equally applicable to him if he were a subject of the Queen resident in such other State.
Just found that one interesting...

dr dre 18th Nov 2020 05:32


Originally Posted by Buster Hyman (Post 10929188)
On a side note, I stumbled across this in the Constitution;

Just found that one interesting...

I wonder how all the constitutional law experts on here (maybe even myself) felt when Palmer’s High Court border challenge was thrown out of court? Maybe we aren’t the legal experts we think we are?

Either way I’m sure the government could facilitate remote quarantine like they did to the Wuhan evacuees in January on Christmas Island.

It’s beyond the point of political arguing, as long as quarantine is maintained in cities, we risk these breakouts every few months which threaten the nation’s generally Covid free status, the national economy and our industry.

Ragnor 18th Nov 2020 06:23


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 10929156)
Shitting on AP for closing the border and yet here is SA going into a tougher lockdown that VIC. Man I would hate to be as wrong as often as you are

Wrong how? Closing borders is not the answer to every new case SA new cluster is still below the Fed Gov definition of outbreak and still does not meet hot spot as defined by Fed Gov. SA said today they can trace all the origin of new cases I believe they are making a more a political move knowing they will be locked out well into next yr if they don’t have zero cases because eradication is what is expected now. The original goal was suppression that has now changed.

galdian 18th Nov 2020 07:11


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10929207)
Wrong how? Closing borders is not the answer to every new case SA new cluster is still below the Fed Gov definition of outbreak and still does not meet hot spot as defined by Fed Gov. SA said today they can trace all the origin of new cases I believe they are making a more a political move knowing they will be locked out well into next yr if they don’t have zero cases because eradication is what is expected now. The original goal was suppression that has now changed.

And who/what institutions changed the goal from suppression to elimination without consulting anyone else??

Anyone who thinks this can be eradicated is a moron, with interdependent economic ties courtesy of the much touted "globalisation" of the world there'd be nothing left to rebuild the scorched earth.

BTW in case unclear I agree with Ragnor's comment, a fair question/observation that deserves consideration because the actions of some state/territory leaders makes you wonder what their strategy is.
And all the while whilst still pocketing whatever they can from ScoMo - just proving that underrneath, whatever they say or pontificate, they really are just politicians and until the cash flow diminishes they are happy to be double faced.

rattman 18th Nov 2020 07:21


Originally Posted by galdian (Post 10929232)
And who/what institutions changed the goal from suppression to elimination without consulting anyone else??

Anyone who thinks this can be eradicated is a moron, with interdependent economic ties courtesy of the much touted "globalisation" of the world there'd be nothing left to rebuild the scorched earth.

Anyone who thinks we should just let if go nuts and do nothing is a bigger moron. Apart for tourism globalisation hasn't been effected, arguably trade has actually increased, monthly household spending has increased.

OK for shits and giggles what would be your plan to handle it. I need a laugh

Ragnor 18th Nov 2020 07:44

I don’t think it should “let go nuts” at all I have the opinion we have to live with it and deal with cases as they arise because at the moment the solution is worse than the problem. NSW perfect example of living with it there has been plenty of small clusters over the last 6 month notably cross roads hotel, pockets in SW SY all very well handled and I have no doubt it will happen again. These border closure are a knee jerk reaction which have exposed the failure of those states to prepare them selfs over the last 6 months.

galdian 18th Nov 2020 09:37

I'll just agree with Ragnor's statement, pretty clear and sensible.

Problem I have is that the states who chose "isolation" believe they have been a success and may not have the protocols established to deal with any outbreaks, when they DO open their fallback position (if South Australia's any indication) is simply to close down - yet again.

Like many one of my parents died (at 93) due a chest infection/cold/flu that became entrenched and led to the body organs saying "yeah all too much".
We haven't eradicated the common cold - yet there appear to be people/organisations who delusionally think CV19 can be eradicated.
My apology in these PC times but my comment stands - morons.

If nothing else simply demonstrates this is still early days of seeing how different approaches do/do not work socially and economically both in Australia and the globalised, interconnected world.

Anyone who believes the first half of 2021 will be any better - good luck on that, I honestly hope you're right.

dr dre 18th Nov 2020 11:12


Originally Posted by galdian (Post 1092935)
We haven't eradicated the common cold - yet there appear to be people/organisations who delusionally think CV19 can be eradicated.

We’re not that far off.

NSW and Victoria have gone 11 and 17 days without local transmission. They’re well on their way to 28 days by December.

SA? This incredibly strict lockdown may do the trick and allow a Covid free Christmas.

Yes, there are organisations who are staffed by some very qualified and experienced people, who think we should aim for zero cases until vaccine uptake is widespread. This will cause the least long term harm to the national economy and allow the most free movement and interstate trade.

Go for zero: How Australia can get to zero COVID-19 cases

People scoffed at this a few months ago. Now we’re on the cusp on achieving it. Until a vaccine or rapid testing is here best to keep international travel with Covid affected nations limited. Therefore the one weak leak in this strategy, international hotel quarantine, must be addressed.

Hate to sound like a broken record but it is the most important factor. If we remove the quarantine cases from major cities, and isolate them remotely, then we remove the only potential source of widespread outbreak into a Covid safe nation.

As much as conspiracy theorists would like to think that State premiers are doing this for delusional psychopathic reasons they are being advised to do this by the experts for good health and economic reasons.

Allowing for contact tracing and suppression is good in theory, and you might get lucky. But if factors are wrong you might not. Let it spread and see how it’ll rip through the US this winter. Even previously “common sense approach” Sweden is now instituting strict restrictions as their previous “common sense” approach failed. Miserably.

If we have a chance to get to zero, and it’s close, then take it.

unexplained blip 18th Nov 2020 13:13


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10929444)
(snip)
People scoffed at this a few months ago. Now we’re on the cusp on achieving it.
(snip)
As much as conspiracy theorists would like to think that State premiers are doing this for delusional psychopathic reasons they are being advised to do this by the experts for good health and economic reasons.
(snip)
If we have a chance to get to zero, and it’s close, then take it.

Not a pilot; and usually politically quite left of centre. I am involved in COVID data work and advisory including analysis towards air travel reopening. I can say that 'zero' is a bloody-minded, aesthetic and egotistical choice by several state leaders and their close sets of advisors. Most certainly eradication is possible to reach. (Ironically, in the early days of COVID-19 the statistical and biosecurity guys about the place were often given a rough time by the health experts and epidemiologists for arguing that the actual data was showing we were nearly there back in May). But it is extremely difficult to sustain, and moreover tremendously costly to achieve and then re-achieve. The "premium" in long-term costs, in going from low to zero, is utterly disproportionate to the benefits (despite the calculations of Prof. Blakely -- synopsis of his article supporting eradication on health cost grounds is: let's poorly represent low-rate non-eradication approaches, and form a narrowly-focused cost function, and then seek to convince all and sundry that eradication is obviously the lowest-cost option)

Vic Govt's obsession with zero, rather than following the clearly sufficient and far more moderate NSW position, has cost Victoria dearly. For example, senior figures in mental health talk in private about widespread damage that will never be repaired. This has become the status quo without consultation with their populations, with patchy-at-best dialogue with the rank-and-file of the science community, without regard for the Commonwealth Govt position, and under State of Emergency powers that stifle constructive debate about what is best for a state or the country, because the executive don't have to listen, they can act with impunity.

It is ironic that despite Dan Andrews' constant claims about being driven by data and science, most certainly Vic Govt's approach was *not* data driven. Data-driven showed that every Australian state got COVID-19 rates from first wave peaks down to very low figures March-May 2020. That is eight experiments all showing the same result, done with relatively moderate restrictions through most of the period. NSW has then successfully put multiple outbreaks to bed with the same settings, Tassie put Burnie away pretty easily, and even VIC managed one or two wins. Then VIC had a spectacular series of well-documented failures starting mid-late May. (Sure, if you point an A380 at the ground, you will kill 550 people. What does that prove?) What seemingly has been quickly forgotten is that due to various factors (including what I believe is a reticence to be open with the public about some of the 'social indicators', and embarrassing systematic shortcomings that were not acknowledged and were quickly cascading) Victoria spent more than two weeks racking up scores of cases, before decisive action was taken. The initial action was late but correct. The last 6 weeks? Jesus wept.

Now with COVID nationally, without actually informing and asking the population about the options, we are at an analogous position to saying "sorry, we just can't trust our firefighters to put fires out, so we declare every day from November to March to be a Total Fire Ban, and closing all the National Parks: and you will support us, because you don't want anyone to get hurt do you?". It's fundamentalist logic that we expect to hear from Middle Eastern leaders or the dumbest parts of the USA. Thing is, winners are grinners unless your world has fallen apart in the process. There have been too many happily married 40-somethings making decisions for everybody else (says one of those people...). An almost voiceless 5%-10% of the population have been utterly smashed by this, and god help you if you are an Aussie wanting to get home or an overseas guest who didn't f*** off home when Scomo told you to (the multi-$B education export will *never* recover from our disregard and callousness). But yeah, winners are grinners.

I don't have much of a view on SA, although on first blush it might be overkill, and certainly the snap border closures were heartless and stupid acts which left many people isolated from their homes and lands.

I don't think the premiers are doing this for "delusional psychopathic reasons" but neither are they being rational, well-informed and holistic. Except in NSW/ACT it seems. The drive to reach zero, and be heroes/heroines like Jacinda, is no better than religious fundamentalism. You can have zero adultery too, if you work hard enough at it. The ends do not justify the means. Just because Dan and Mark and Anastasia etc "won" does not mean they have chosen the best path. We do not have a binary choice between NZ on one hand, and Sweden, the UK or the USA on the other. The data shows that we all had a great and successful approach March-May but now the wheels are well and truly off. Yes it is better that the wheels rolled south to zero, rather than rolled north to infinity -- but they are still off. The majority of relevant scientists, sociologists, economists and data-wranglers are NOT being harnessed or listened to; and state and national strategy is a total shambles.


Ragnor 18th Nov 2020 18:52

So, SA 6 day lockdown WTF! where does 6 days come from another rogue premier and CMO making $hit up as they go like QLD and WA. Sco Mo needs to grab the reins and pull these premiers into line make a national standard FFS.

Xeptu 18th Nov 2020 19:10

It doesn't really matter, we want zero community transmission and we'll accept nothing less. You guys best accept and adapt the airlines will never be what they were. It will be climate change next and that will be a whole lot more destructive than any virus.

Green.Dot 18th Nov 2020 20:28


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10929759)
So, SA 6 day lockdown WTF! where does 6 days come from another rogue premier and CMO making $hit up as they go like QLD and WA. Sco Mo needs to grab the reins and pull these premiers into line make a national standard FFS.

I say good on SA for making the big call early. It wasn’t just a small number of cases, it was 20 or so in 48 hours from nothing. If it turns out to be nothing they can call stumps in 3 days.

You and I both know if Adelaide turns in to another Melbourne it will be a disaster for the domestic aviation market which was just about to turn a corner.

Déjà Vu- feels a lot like July- the great unknown. Which way will it go?

compressor stall 18th Nov 2020 21:36


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10929444)
Hate to sound like a broken record but it is the most important factor. If we remove the quarantine cases from major cities, and isolate them remotely, then we remove the only potential source of widespread outbreak into a Covid safe nation.

I hate to break it to you, but there are other avenues for COVID to enter AU besides the traveller quarantine system. And I am not talking aircrew.

The greatest danger to this country is the perception that with zero, we can go back to normal, or just about. Then when something pops up, it goes nuts. Look at the panic buying yesterday in Adelaide, not a mask in sight on the vision I saw. IF it is about, it's probably now well seeded.


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