Originally Posted by Ragnor
(Post 10928098)
Queen P must be frothing at the mouth
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Originally Posted by goodonyamate
(Post 10928150)
Only 1 case in SA from yesterday’s testing blitz. Obviously more results to be processed but the premier seemed pretty positive.
poor form by the states clicking their fingers and shutting their borders at the whiff of a cluster. Only 3 states I’d be confident booking a holiday in the next 6 months would be NSW, VIC and SA funnily enough. |
Originally Posted by WhisprSYD
(Post 10928200)
well done if it’s contained that quickly.
poor form by the states clicking their fingers and shutting their borders at the whiff of a cluster. Only 3 states I’d be confident booking a holiday in the next 6 months would be NSW, VIC and SA funnily enough. Crew who passed through ADL since Nov 7 have been given retrospective 14 days isolation in WA. Great job Marko.:mad::mad: |
Originally Posted by Ragnor
(Post 10928098)
Queen P must be frothing at the mouth today that she slammed the border shut. Seeing QLD is only capable of making one decision a month we will reconvene 26th December or will they be taking the public holiday off?
Don't get me wrong, she is not a communist or a socialist, she is a trumpunist. When she has a press conference she smiles and talks at the same time meaning, "Were gonna make QLD great again. I'm so glad Donald won't be stuck in the White House for the next 4 years because we could use him subdividing and making division in this country. Building walls are making a come back, we have seen the ring of steel around Melbourne so we are seriously looking at a 10m wall at the border so we can keep those NSW/VIC illegals, covid lepers, and any other horrible diseases from entering the greatest state on the planet." Funny dream that one, Brisbane Airport plane spotters if you see a Trump 757 on the tarmac please report it immediately. |
Originally Posted by Turnleft080
(Post 10928294)
The reason she's frothing from the month she gets her medical advice from the journal of Trump. Pine-O-clean injections does the trick.
Don't get me wrong, she is not a communist or a socialist, she is a trumpunist. . |
Prominent epidemiologists now calling for the ending of international arrival hotel quarantine in the middle of cities:
South Australian cluster shows we need to stop hotel quarantine in cities: epidemiologist Infectious diseases expert and epidemiologist Mary-Louise McLaws told Virginia Trioli the Adelaide cluster shows why hotel quarantine programs should be shut down in favour of purpose built quarantine stations. "Hotel quarantines were a great idea to get Australians and residents back home, but it should only have been an interim idea," Professor McLaws said. "We do need to start thinking about a purpose built environment." In a situation like this, we should ask why we continue to operate high-risk quarantine hotels in the middle of a city. It would be much safer to quarantine people away from communities, like we did on Christmas Island earlier in the pandemic. |
What’s your proposal? If they can’t arrive via Sydney which over half do who else do you sentence to take these infectious ppl. Maybe WA could take a few more send them to an outback station oh but they wouldn’t do that would they.
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The helpful solution is if the Feds took ownership and stood up Defense bases. Plenty of these have transport solutions and capacity to build temporary housing. Staffed using defense personnel / medics, with repatriation to the nearest major city following 2 weeks isolation. RAAF Learmonth, Curtin, Scherger, Tindal at a minimum.
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jrfsp,
I wouldn’t want the see military bases used for Covid Isolation at all, I would prefer those that might be called upon to defend the country to be as far removed from Covid as possible. Take google search tour relating to US Carriers Roosevelt and Reagan to consider what might occur should our Defence Forces be in a position to contract Covid. |
Originally Posted by jrfsp
(Post 10928376)
The helpful solution is if the Feds took ownership and stood up Defense bases. Plenty of these have transport solutions and capacity to build temporary housing. Staffed using defense personnel / medics, with repatriation to the nearest major city following 2 weeks isolation. RAAF Learmonth, Curtin, Scherger, Tindal at a minimum.
RAAF Tindal is an active fighter base with most members living on base with their families - not a great move. Scherger and Curtin are bare bases and have minimal if any facilities in place. I guess the government could build a tin city of dongas but would need significant investment. |
Originally Posted by Malakor1
(Post 10928457)
Probably harder to enact that you. RAAF Learmonth is used frequently by various squadrons and when they isolated some people there earlier this year before transporting them to Christmas it caused a lot of hassle with ADF members not able to use the facilities for up to 2 weeks after they left.
RAAF Tindal is an active fighter base with most members living on base with their families - not a great move. Scherger and Curtin are bare bases and have minimal if any facilities in place. I guess the government could build a tin city of donnas but would need significant investment. "What's that, Mr & Ms returning citizen? You don't want to sleep in a tent for a fortnight? That's fine, no hard feelings. When COVID is beaten, once and for all, you're welcome to come home then. But until that time, the door's closed...." If I were running things, that's exactly what I'd do...A bunch of tents in half the shelters, meals served in hot-boxes the same way diggers get them in the field and some movies on a projector at night. It's not meant to be a bloody holiday but a means to get you home without bringing the pestilence with you. Given the choice between being stuck overseas wishing I was home, or sleeping on a cot at Scherger for 2 weeks, I know what I'd rather! |
Looking like Morro xmas dream is coming to a screaming halt! WA and QLD SLAMMING (not sure why the media need to use that word) their borders shut, it would appear the only place that looks like getting a look in is Victoria ironically. Forget about WA for NSW that guy is on a crazy power trip and is getting a kick out of this as for SA and NSW can't meet QLD ridiculous 28 days by the one day a month that Queen P can make a decision on the 26th. Why does the WA and QLD CMOs have vast differences in medical advise than other in the country and even the Fed CMO I'm sure they have read the same books.
One thing is certain now the public's confidant's in Australia, if thats what we call our self, will be gone for the long term due to lack of confidence at these borders being closed mid flight. |
Originally Posted by goodonyamate
(Post 10928150)
Only 1 case in SA from yesterday’s testing blitz. Obviously more results to be processed but the premier seemed pretty positive.
Wonder what the usual daily test figures are? Victoria constantly gets caned for whatever reason by a couple of dilusional premiers but why dont we hear about the low testing rates in some of these states. |
Originally Posted by blubak
(Post 10928985)
5 new cases in SA yesterday with a RECORD 6000 tests.
Wonder what the usual daily test figures are? Victoria constantly gets caned for whatever reason by a couple of dilusional premiers but why dont we hear about the low testing rates in some of these states. Those testing rates are very good for SA their average is 1400-2000 just like Queen P. But if you go off the capital city population, yesterday for example ML tested 0.35% of their population 17,412 test with just under 5 million people, Sydney only did 8588 with a population 5.2 million little under 0.16% (thats very low for SY usually around 0.32%) Adelaide 6000 test with 1.3 million 0.45% so pretty good. |
Originally Posted by Malakor1
(Post 10928457)
Scherger and Curtin are bare bases and have minimal if any facilities in place. I guess the government could build a tin city of dongas but would need significant investment. |
Originally Posted by rattman
(Post 10929021)
Theres are lots tourist islands that could be repurposed. From the start I was thinking that getting chartered aircraft fly them in scherger where the passengers go through immigration and initial medical screening and testing. From there loaded onto smaller aircraft and flown to hamiliton where they quarantine or transferred to other islands or remote inland facilities. While the hamiliton island might have issues with their island being turned into a "plague island" they might not. The thing about hamilion is its reletively close to major medical center in townsville also a large military bases around for support
I hope the Federal Govt is exploring all options. The cost of getting something like this operational is minuscule compared to another Melbourne style lockdown. |
Originally Posted by rattman
(Post 10929021)
Theres are lots tourist islands that could be repurposed. From the start I was thinking that getting chartered aircraft fly them in scherger where the passengers go through immigration and initial medical screening and testing. From there loaded onto smaller aircraft and flown to hamiliton where they quarantine or transferred to other islands or remote inland facilities. While the hamiliton island might have issues with their island being turned into a "plague island" they might not. The thing about hamilion is its reletively close to major medical center in townsville also a large military bases around for support
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It is likely we'll have another 12 months of quarantine, we cannot afford more shutdowns.
Yet the fed gov does nothing to move away from the CBD hotel process. |
Seems to be a recurring theme. Person from large migrant family, working as hotel security guard and in other jobs, gets infected and spreads virus to family and others through contact in their other job.
It’s Victoria all over again. |
Originally Posted by SOPS
(Post 10929149)
Seems to be a recurring theme. Person from large migrant family, working as hotel security guard and in other jobs, gets infected and spreads virus to family and others through contact in their other job.
It’s Victoria all over again. Don't blame them for the employment situation Australians have created. The Federal Government wants hotel quarantine done on the cheap in the easiest place, major city CBD hotels with cheap labour. They should be using more remote locations. Epidemiologists agree. The Federal Government doesn't want to spend the money they need to so we can have a safe quarantine system. |
Originally Posted by Ragnor
(Post 10928971)
Looking like Morro xmas dream is coming to a screaming halt! WA and QLD SLAMMING .
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Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10929155)
The Federal Government wants hotel quarantine done on the cheap in the easiest place, major city CBD hotels with cheap labour. They should be using more remote locations. Epidemiologists agree. The Federal Government doesn't want to spend the money they need to so we can have a safe quarantine system.
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Originally Posted by Buster Hyman
(Post 10929158)
Oh, so the Feds have taken over the State's responsibilities? Missed that on the news.
(ix) Quarantine (xix) Naturalization and aliens; (xxvii) immigration and emigration In addition to Border control and Biosecurity. It's the Federal Government which operates facilities like Christmas Island and military bases. The Feds have delegated this task to the states, and show no inclination to take charge with their resources when it's obvious the current situation (major CBD hotel quarantine) is causing national problems. From now on this situation should be dealt with with a coordinated national approach with the Federal Government stepping up to be real leaders with a Federally managed remote quarantine program. |
Originally Posted by rattman
(Post 10929156)
****ting on AP for closing the border and yet here is SA going into a tougher lockdown that VIC. Man I would hate to be as wrong as often as you are
And I’ll take an extreme lockdown lasting 6 days over a 4 month emotional extravaganza any day. |
Originally Posted by Green.Dot
(Post 10929168)
There is a big difference between indefinite border closures and a wise lockdown Rat.
And I’ll take an extreme lockdown lasting 6 days over a 4 month emotional extravaganza any day. |
Originally Posted by rattman
(Post 10929175)
I would take a 4 month border closure and being able to goto a cafe and have an effectively unchanged life over the a 14 day (not 6) day lockdown
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Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10929163)
Australian Constitution:s51 The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power12 to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:
(ix) Quarantine (xix) Naturalization and aliens; (xxvii) immigration and emigration Whilst the Biosecurity Act has superseded Quarantine Act, there's much too much to cross reference to find a definitive answer. The Australian Emergency Management Arrangements, whilst also a simple document, manages to be devoid of 'Legal Speak'. It contains the following references; In Australia, state and territory governments have primary responsibility for protecting life, property and environment within their borders. State and territory governments establish plans and arrangements for most of the functions essential for effective emergency management (prevention and mitigation, preparedness, response and recovery) and in the interests of community safety and well being. The roles of the Australian Government in emergency management are to: • build and promote resilience to emergencies • support a state or territory, where the emergency response overwhelms their resources and arrangements and Australian Government assistance has been requested • jointly manage, with an affected state or territory, an emergency that has the potential to affect/has affected: more than one jurisdiction, the broader community or Australian Govt areas of responsibility; or is of national consequence (e.g. pandemic...) • take primary responsibility for coordinating the response to an emergency that is not the responsibility of a state or territory (e.g. an emergency outside Australia that significantly affects Australians or Australian interests) • support the states and territories through cost sharing arrangements to alleviate the financial burden associated with the provision of emergency relief and recovery services and activities • where necessary, provide direct assistance to affected communities On a side note, I stumbled across this in the Constitution; 117. Rights of residents in StatesA subject of the Queen, resident in any State, shall not be subject in any other State to any disability or discrimination which would not be equally applicable to him if he were a subject of the Queen resident in such other State. |
Originally Posted by Buster Hyman
(Post 10929188)
On a side note, I stumbled across this in the Constitution;
Just found that one interesting... Either way I’m sure the government could facilitate remote quarantine like they did to the Wuhan evacuees in January on Christmas Island. It’s beyond the point of political arguing, as long as quarantine is maintained in cities, we risk these breakouts every few months which threaten the nation’s generally Covid free status, the national economy and our industry. |
Originally Posted by rattman
(Post 10929156)
****ting on AP for closing the border and yet here is SA going into a tougher lockdown that VIC. Man I would hate to be as wrong as often as you are
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Originally Posted by Ragnor
(Post 10929207)
Wrong how? Closing borders is not the answer to every new case SA new cluster is still below the Fed Gov definition of outbreak and still does not meet hot spot as defined by Fed Gov. SA said today they can trace all the origin of new cases I believe they are making a more a political move knowing they will be locked out well into next yr if they don’t have zero cases because eradication is what is expected now. The original goal was suppression that has now changed.
Anyone who thinks this can be eradicated is a moron, with interdependent economic ties courtesy of the much touted "globalisation" of the world there'd be nothing left to rebuild the scorched earth. BTW in case unclear I agree with Ragnor's comment, a fair question/observation that deserves consideration because the actions of some state/territory leaders makes you wonder what their strategy is. And all the while whilst still pocketing whatever they can from ScoMo - just proving that underrneath, whatever they say or pontificate, they really are just politicians and until the cash flow diminishes they are happy to be double faced. |
Originally Posted by galdian
(Post 10929232)
And who/what institutions changed the goal from suppression to elimination without consulting anyone else??
Anyone who thinks this can be eradicated is a moron, with interdependent economic ties courtesy of the much touted "globalisation" of the world there'd be nothing left to rebuild the scorched earth. OK for ****s and giggles what would be your plan to handle it. I need a laugh |
I don’t think it should “let go nuts” at all I have the opinion we have to live with it and deal with cases as they arise because at the moment the solution is worse than the problem. NSW perfect example of living with it there has been plenty of small clusters over the last 6 month notably cross roads hotel, pockets in SW SY all very well handled and I have no doubt it will happen again. These border closure are a knee jerk reaction which have exposed the failure of those states to prepare them selfs over the last 6 months.
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I'll just agree with Ragnor's statement, pretty clear and sensible.
Problem I have is that the states who chose "isolation" believe they have been a success and may not have the protocols established to deal with any outbreaks, when they DO open their fallback position (if South Australia's any indication) is simply to close down - yet again. Like many one of my parents died (at 93) due a chest infection/cold/flu that became entrenched and led to the body organs saying "yeah all too much". We haven't eradicated the common cold - yet there appear to be people/organisations who delusionally think CV19 can be eradicated. My apology in these PC times but my comment stands - morons. If nothing else simply demonstrates this is still early days of seeing how different approaches do/do not work socially and economically both in Australia and the globalised, interconnected world. Anyone who believes the first half of 2021 will be any better - good luck on that, I honestly hope you're right. |
Originally Posted by galdian
(Post 1092935)
We haven't eradicated the common cold - yet there appear to be people/organisations who delusionally think CV19 can be eradicated.
NSW and Victoria have gone 11 and 17 days without local transmission. They’re well on their way to 28 days by December. SA? This incredibly strict lockdown may do the trick and allow a Covid free Christmas. Yes, there are organisations who are staffed by some very qualified and experienced people, who think we should aim for zero cases until vaccine uptake is widespread. This will cause the least long term harm to the national economy and allow the most free movement and interstate trade. Go for zero: How Australia can get to zero COVID-19 cases People scoffed at this a few months ago. Now we’re on the cusp on achieving it. Until a vaccine or rapid testing is here best to keep international travel with Covid affected nations limited. Therefore the one weak leak in this strategy, international hotel quarantine, must be addressed. Hate to sound like a broken record but it is the most important factor. If we remove the quarantine cases from major cities, and isolate them remotely, then we remove the only potential source of widespread outbreak into a Covid safe nation. As much as conspiracy theorists would like to think that State premiers are doing this for delusional psychopathic reasons they are being advised to do this by the experts for good health and economic reasons. Allowing for contact tracing and suppression is good in theory, and you might get lucky. But if factors are wrong you might not. Let it spread and see how it’ll rip through the US this winter. Even previously “common sense approach” Sweden is now instituting strict restrictions as their previous “common sense” approach failed. Miserably. If we have a chance to get to zero, and it’s close, then take it. |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10929444)
(snip)
People scoffed at this a few months ago. Now we’re on the cusp on achieving it. (snip) As much as conspiracy theorists would like to think that State premiers are doing this for delusional psychopathic reasons they are being advised to do this by the experts for good health and economic reasons. (snip) If we have a chance to get to zero, and it’s close, then take it. Vic Govt's obsession with zero, rather than following the clearly sufficient and far more moderate NSW position, has cost Victoria dearly. For example, senior figures in mental health talk in private about widespread damage that will never be repaired. This has become the status quo without consultation with their populations, with patchy-at-best dialogue with the rank-and-file of the science community, without regard for the Commonwealth Govt position, and under State of Emergency powers that stifle constructive debate about what is best for a state or the country, because the executive don't have to listen, they can act with impunity. It is ironic that despite Dan Andrews' constant claims about being driven by data and science, most certainly Vic Govt's approach was *not* data driven. Data-driven showed that every Australian state got COVID-19 rates from first wave peaks down to very low figures March-May 2020. That is eight experiments all showing the same result, done with relatively moderate restrictions through most of the period. NSW has then successfully put multiple outbreaks to bed with the same settings, Tassie put Burnie away pretty easily, and even VIC managed one or two wins. Then VIC had a spectacular series of well-documented failures starting mid-late May. (Sure, if you point an A380 at the ground, you will kill 550 people. What does that prove?) What seemingly has been quickly forgotten is that due to various factors (including what I believe is a reticence to be open with the public about some of the 'social indicators', and embarrassing systematic shortcomings that were not acknowledged and were quickly cascading) Victoria spent more than two weeks racking up scores of cases, before decisive action was taken. The initial action was late but correct. The last 6 weeks? Jesus wept. Now with COVID nationally, without actually informing and asking the population about the options, we are at an analogous position to saying "sorry, we just can't trust our firefighters to put fires out, so we declare every day from November to March to be a Total Fire Ban, and closing all the National Parks: and you will support us, because you don't want anyone to get hurt do you?". It's fundamentalist logic that we expect to hear from Middle Eastern leaders or the dumbest parts of the USA. Thing is, winners are grinners unless your world has fallen apart in the process. There have been too many happily married 40-somethings making decisions for everybody else (says one of those people...). An almost voiceless 5%-10% of the population have been utterly smashed by this, and god help you if you are an Aussie wanting to get home or an overseas guest who didn't f*** off home when Scomo told you to (the multi-$B education export will *never* recover from our disregard and callousness). But yeah, winners are grinners. I don't have much of a view on SA, although on first blush it might be overkill, and certainly the snap border closures were heartless and stupid acts which left many people isolated from their homes and lands. I don't think the premiers are doing this for "delusional psychopathic reasons" but neither are they being rational, well-informed and holistic. Except in NSW/ACT it seems. The drive to reach zero, and be heroes/heroines like Jacinda, is no better than religious fundamentalism. You can have zero adultery too, if you work hard enough at it. The ends do not justify the means. Just because Dan and Mark and Anastasia etc "won" does not mean they have chosen the best path. We do not have a binary choice between NZ on one hand, and Sweden, the UK or the USA on the other. The data shows that we all had a great and successful approach March-May but now the wheels are well and truly off. Yes it is better that the wheels rolled south to zero, rather than rolled north to infinity -- but they are still off. The majority of relevant scientists, sociologists, economists and data-wranglers are NOT being harnessed or listened to; and state and national strategy is a total shambles. |
So, SA 6 day lockdown WTF! where does 6 days come from another rogue premier and CMO making $hit up as they go like QLD and WA. Sco Mo needs to grab the reins and pull these premiers into line make a national standard FFS.
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It doesn't really matter, we want zero community transmission and we'll accept nothing less. You guys best accept and adapt the airlines will never be what they were. It will be climate change next and that will be a whole lot more destructive than any virus.
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Originally Posted by Ragnor
(Post 10929759)
So, SA 6 day lockdown WTF! where does 6 days come from another rogue premier and CMO making $hit up as they go like QLD and WA. Sco Mo needs to grab the reins and pull these premiers into line make a national standard FFS.
You and I both know if Adelaide turns in to another Melbourne it will be a disaster for the domestic aviation market which was just about to turn a corner. Déjà Vu- feels a lot like July- the great unknown. Which way will it go? |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10929444)
Hate to sound like a broken record but it is the most important factor. If we remove the quarantine cases from major cities, and isolate them remotely, then we remove the only potential source of widespread outbreak into a Covid safe nation.
The greatest danger to this country is the perception that with zero, we can go back to normal, or just about. Then when something pops up, it goes nuts. Look at the panic buying yesterday in Adelaide, not a mask in sight on the vision I saw. IF it is about, it's probably now well seeded. |
Originally Posted by Green.Dot
(Post 10929818)
I say good on SA for making the big call early. It wasn’t just a small number of cases, it was 20 or so in 48 hours from nothing. If it turns out to be nothing they can call stumps in 3 days.
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