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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

jrfsp 25th Nov 2020 01:09

WAs criteria has been stated for quite a while now, 28 days of no community cases.

Both VIC and NSW should shortly reach that criteria

KRviator 25th Nov 2020 06:34


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 10934127)
WAs criteria has been stated for quite a while now, 28 days of no community cases.

Both VIC and NSW should shortly reach that criteria

That isn't the only consideration though...Mark McGoose has stated that sewage testing, the COVID testing regime of the other states & their own border arrangements, as well as whether or not a bear shits in the woods and if Punxsutawney Phil emerges from his burrow arse-first all factor into his decision to open the border according to ABC News. Guess you'll be seeing Queenslanders banned from WA now someone has been peeing Pestilence up Cairns way this afternoon, picked up in their sewage testing...

lucille 25th Nov 2020 07:32

So, finally after 6 long months, the original poster BNE320 can strut around with his head held high saying “I told ya so”.

Green.Dot 25th Nov 2020 10:27


Originally Posted by lucille (Post 10934217)
So, finally after 6 long months, the original poster BNE320 can strut around with his head held high saying “I told ya so”.

Welcome back BNEA320, it appears you are no longer banned!

Ragnor 25th Nov 2020 20:15

Appears AJ is coping some heat over this. Not sure what the problem is 40 yrs ago this was mandatory to travel internationally and I wouldn't be surprised if it is made mandatory for domestic. This pandemic has cost 1000s of lives and billions of dollars.

"Qantas boss Alan Joyce has revealed the airline will require proof of vaccine from travellers when international flights resume next year.

Speaking on A Current Affair, Mr Joyce outlined the measures being explored by the airline in partnership with the federal government to try to facilitate more overseas flights.

He said passengers on repatriation flights currently being operated by Qantas were being tested prior to boarding and upon arrival in Darwin, with the aim of potentially reducing the mandatory quarantine period from 14-days to seven or even five.

“We’re also testing wastewater on the aircraft as well to check if someone on the aircraft had COVID-19, and that’s producing some promising results,” Mr Joyce said.

“There’s a lot of activity taking place. If we don’t get a vaccine, absolutely testing is the way to reduce the amount of quarantine required.”

In the event a vaccine does become available Mr Joyce said Qantas and many other airlines around the world would require travellers to have proof of vaccination before boarding an overseas flight.

“We’re looking at changing our terms and conditions,” he said.

“I think that’s going to be a common there around the globe. What we’re looking at is how you can have the vaccination (recorded) in an electronic version of a passport that certifies what the vaccine is, if it’s acceptable the country you’re travelling to.

“There’s a lot of logistics, a lot of technology that need to be put in place to make this happen.”

Mr Joyce’s comments were reflected by the International Air Transport Association which is in the final stages of developing a digital health pass, considered the key to safely reopening borders.

IATA’s annual general meeting heard the pass would manage and verify the secure flow of necessary testing or vaccine information among governments, airlines, laboratories and travellers.

IATA managing director Alexandre de Juniac said the association would bring its own travel pass to the market in coming months to meet the needs of various travel bubbles and public health corridors.

“Today borders are double locked. Testing is the first key to enable international travel without quarantine measures,” Mr de Juniac said.

“The second key is the global information infrastructure needed to securely manage, share and verify test data matched with traveller identities in compliance with border control requirements.”

Since the COVID crisis erupted, international air travel has all but ground to a halt, with Qantas suspending all commercial overseas flights from late March.

The most recent federal government indications were that international borders were unlikely to be relaxed until the end of 2021, in the absence of an effective COVID vaccine.

Mr Joyce has suggested Qantas would not resume any significant international flying until July 2021, and services to the US and the UK were unlikely to happen before December 2021.

Travel bubbles between Australia and other countries who have COVID-19 well under control such as New Zealand, South Korea and Singapore are expected to open up in coming months.

Qantas has placed most of its international fleet into storage, including 12 A380s, and most of its 787-9s and A330s.

The airline also brought forward the retirement of its five remaining Boeing 747s in July.

A total of 241 pilots have taken voluntary redundancy or early retirement equivalent to the loss of close 5 million flying hours.

On the domestic front, Qantas hopes to return to 50 or 60 per cent of pre-COVID capacity in December, providing state borders reopen".

Green.Dot 25th Nov 2020 20:25


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10934734)
Appears AJ is coping some heat over this. Not sure what the problem is 40 yrs ago this was mandatory to travel internationally and I wouldn't be surprised if it is made mandatory for domestic. This pandemic has cost 1000s of lives and billions of dollars.

"Qantas boss Alan Joyce has revealed the airline will require proof of vaccine from travellers when international flights resume next year.

For the majority who aren’t on the “anti-vaxers” bandwagon I would say this is a positive for Qantas and its forward bookings. I’ll buy a ticket with the airline that mandates it thanks.

Buster Hyman 25th Nov 2020 20:36

Still have the scars from the previous mandatory immunisation shots. I have no issue with Qantas’ stance here.

I guess the main difference, aside from diseases covered, is it was Govt. mandated instead of a private company.

kingRB 25th Nov 2020 20:51


Originally Posted by Green.Dot (Post 10934738)
For the majority who aren’t on the “anti-vaxers” bandwagon I would say this is a positive for Qantas and its forward bookings. I’ll buy a ticket with the airline that mandates it thanks.

Why is it always black and white these days? Did you possibly imagine that someone could hold the position that vaccines do indeed work, but don't want to be forced to take a vaccine thats been brought out in record time with little regard to known long term effects? I mean it's not like we've ever got vaccines wrong before is it?
Nah, we'll just label them all "anti-vaxers" and mock them from deviating from the group think that's been perpetuated under the guise of "science" now.



chookcooker 25th Nov 2020 20:57

Yes travelling to covid ravaged countries without a vaccine and no travel insurance coverage sounds like a great idea.

Green.Dot 25th Nov 2020 21:26


Originally Posted by kingRB (Post 10934754)
Why is it always black and white these days? Did you possibly imagine that someone could hold the position that vaccines do indeed work, but don't want to be forced to take a vaccine thats been brought out in record time with little regard to known long term effects?

Ok, I shouldn’t haves prodded the hornets nest with the “anti-vaxers” bit.

Me personally- I am in no hurry to go overseas, but if I needed to I know I wouldn’t be booking with “El Cheapo airline- choose your own COVID adventure” and I would take my chances with getting the jab.

kingRB 25th Nov 2020 21:49


Originally Posted by Green.Dot (Post 10934769)
Ok, I shouldn’t haves prodded the hornets nest with the “anti-vaxers” bit.

Me personally- I am in no hurry to go overseas, but if I needed to I know I wouldn’t be booking with “El Cheapo airline- choose your own COVID adventure” and I would take my chances with getting the jab.

All good, this wasn't a dig at you personally - but just the overall theme that seems to be the way this is playing out. We seem to be on very slippery ground at the moment with private companies continuing to weigh in on things that really should be left to the law makers.


Xeptu 25th Nov 2020 22:26

Personally I can't imagine International travel can resume without mandatory vaccination, nor can I imagine you'll be able to buy travel insurance without it. This is still going to take a long time and needs to be implemented properly. The vaccination, certification and how that information is used needs to be thought through in order to prevent fakes and it needs to be an internationally agreed global standard.

dr dre 25th Nov 2020 22:36


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10934734)
Appears AJ is coping some heat over this. Not sure what the problem is

AJ is copping heat over this? From who? The only ones I’ve seen who’ve voiced opposition are nutjob anti-vax nutters on the darkest corners of the internet and Pauline Hanson. So nutters comprise 100% of the opposition. I think AJ has taken a bold stand that will eventually influence others and that will pay off and attract customers to QF.

Turnleft080 26th Nov 2020 03:09

Just getting back to SA they are having 33 today with double 40 temperatures that is, in the next few days. Make that 50 in the sun.
Just what the doctor ordered. Covid does not like heated surfaces or for that matter a sneeze would just totally evaporate
into thin air i.e. no microscopic particles. Now is that good science or not. The governing authorities remain quiet on these aspects.
However, the beaches will be packed though bayside councils panic about numbers and social distancing.
Nothing to worry about, their has not been a single case of transmission any part of the coastline, Australia wide.
You really start to think this is a indoor spreader not a outdoor spreader.
Anyway the hot weather will help SA cause immensely.

Fuel-Off 26th Nov 2020 08:24

I love it how we as pilots would happy to lampoon any layman that doesn't apparently know what they're talking about in aviation, but when it comes to all things medical we're suddenly experts on the matter too.

Priceless.

Fuel-Off :ok:

Mach E Avelli 26th Nov 2020 08:40


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10934872)
Just getting back to SA they are having 33 today with double 40 temperatures that is, in the next few days. Make that 50 in the sun.
Just what the doctor ordered. Covid does not like heated surfaces or for that matter a sneeze would just totally evaporate
into thin air i.e. no microscopic particles. Now is that good science or not. The governing authorities remain quiet on these aspects.
However, the beaches will be packed though bayside councils panic about numbers and social distancing.
Nothing to worry about, their has not been a single case of transmission any part of the coastline, Australia wide.
You really start to think this is a indoor spreader not a outdoor spreader.
Anyway the hot weather will help SA cause immensely.

So you have evidence that no one has caught it on an Australian beach on a hot day do you?
You'd better let all those Europeans know so that they can re-open 'their' beaches next summer, to all regardless of where they came from.
This last summer did not go well for them, so maybe all that transmission occurred indoors while half the population was outdoors, yes?

Meantime, having no medical knowledge whatsoever, I will line up for the jab as soon as it is available. Because next year I intend being on those hot European beaches, and to get 'there' I will be flying Qantas.
People can bleat all they like about 'their' rights, but no one will be going anywhere overseas until they have been vaccinated. 'There' will be no government likely to allow entry to non-vaccinated airline passengers, so any airline not following these new rules will go bust.

currawong 26th Nov 2020 10:10

Mr Joyce has the benefit of some solid legal advice...

https://www.chaliklaw.com/coronaviru...g-coronavirus/

Ambulance chasers wet dream....

dr dre 26th Nov 2020 10:50


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10934872)
Just getting back to SA they are having 33 today with double 40 temperatures that is, in the next few days. Make that 50 in the sun.
Just what the doctor ordered. Covid does not like heated surfaces or for that matter a sneeze would just totally evaporate
into thin air i.e. no microscopic particles. Now is that good science or not. The governing authorities remain quiet on these aspects.
However, the beaches will be packed though bayside councils panic about numbers and social distancing.
Nothing to worry about, their has not been a single case of transmission any part of the coastline, Australia wide.
You really start to think this is a indoor spreader not a outdoor spreader.
Anyway the hot weather will help SA cause immensely.

Yes because these places didn’t have spikes in July and August:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/arizona/

I shouldn’t need to remind you what the weather’s like in July and August in Texas and Arizona.....

Derfred 26th Nov 2020 12:18

Yep, must have been a cold summer in India this year.

Ragnor 27th Nov 2020 05:55

So McIdiot over on the west made an announcement about affordable housing. That was quickly forgotten no questions asked as the journalist wanted answers as to why they can’t agree on their own 28 days regarding opening up to Victoria. He said a announcement will be made in first half of next week but wouldn’t commit to opening up to Victoria or anywhere. Feel sorry for everyone that will miss their family because of this power hungry nut job.

dr dre 27th Nov 2020 07:58

December 5

When the QR Code Venue App is in place.

wheels_down 27th Nov 2020 08:12

Perhaps his little world will start falling apart when the rest of the nation gets moving while he is still sitting on the bench.

Just like that fool right up north who said he was not opening his territory for a few years.

All these Labor premiers are on power trips from one extreme to the other, certainly is not one Labor approach across the board. The bloke in Vic seems to run his own regime with no affiliation to any National Labor approach at all. He stands up and agrees with a Liberal premier to his north, while his colleagues in other states shoot her down.

dr dre 27th Nov 2020 09:04


Originally Posted by wheels_down (Post 10935581)
Perhaps his little world will start falling apart when the rest of the nation gets moving while he is still sitting on the bench.

Just like that fool right up north who said he was not opening his territory for a few years.

Oh be calm.

The differences between states and territories opening up to each will only be a matter of weeks, early next year no one will remember who opened to who when because it’ll all have seemed to have happened at the same time.

Now the international border is the major point of discussion. Has there been any talk of the criteria that will apply to cause international borders to open? When will we be able to travel freely to a Covid safe NZ? What amount of vaccination uptake will be needed to open the rest of the international borders? What if not enough Australians get the vaccine to the minimum level required, will there be some type of forced vaccination, or will border remain closed? Will there be mandatory vaccination for foreigners (I’d say so)?

wheels_down 27th Nov 2020 09:22

The question asked by an analyst recently to a local CEO was that is International Travel viable (green earnings) without the Business traveller? Talking taken completely out of the picture here. Pretty much all corporate accounts have banned travel. The answer was no.

Those International fights with 20% Corporate, the revenue that comes with that is far greater than 20%.

I guess they just want to reduce the cash burn at the moment, worry about profit in a few years.

Xeptu 27th Nov 2020 09:45

I would have thought in the case of International Borders, all inbound passengers would at least be required to test negative assuming a reliable quick test is available by then and quite probably vaccinated as well. For outbound passengers almost certainly vaccinated, but I wouldn't think forced, just refused if you are not. It would be foolish to want to travel without having been vaccinated. It will be interesting to see what actually comes about. Surely most countries would require vaccinated prior to entry. It'll be a couple of years before we find out.

ScepticalOptomist 27th Nov 2020 09:49


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 10935638)
I would have thought in the case of International Borders, all inbound passengers would at least be required to test negative assuming a reliable quick test is available by then and quite probably vaccinated as well. For outbound passengers almost certainly vaccinated, but I wouldn't think forced, just refused if you are not. It would be foolish to want to travel without having been vaccinated. It will be interesting to see what actually comes about. Surely most countries would require vaccinated prior to entry. It'll be a couple of years before we find out.

I think it will be quicker than you think.

Travel insurance companies already gearing up to add vaccination as a requirement for coverage.

First half of next year will be interesting.

Green.Dot 27th Nov 2020 19:40

Someone has already jumped on it. Best thing the ABC has ever used their budget for. :D

https://fb.watch/217eT9hpje/


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....555f6e366.jpeg

Xeptu 27th Nov 2020 20:23


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 10935644)
I think it will be quicker than you think.

Travel insurance companies already gearing up to add vaccination as a requirement for coverage.

First half of next year will be interesting.

What's happening in the first half of next year.

dr dre 27th Nov 2020 23:10


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 10935986)
What's happening in the first half of next year.

The rollout of the various vaccines.

The regulations and plans governments will enact to undertake vaccination programs.

Observation on how much initial uptake of the vaccine is being requested by the population.

Decisions being made on what level of vaccination will allow borders to open, along with testing and Covid status of other nations.

When these plans are formulated it’ll give international carriers a better idea of when a return to regular open international air travel is going to happen so should allow for them to start planning flights and start return to work processes for pilots. Although the return to work probably won’t be in the first half of the year everything else will happen in the first half, so international crews should have a much better idea of the road ahead.

Xeptu 28th Nov 2020 01:52

I admire your optimism, but there are a few hurdles in the way. The first being we don't actually have an approved vaccine yet. Then it will take 6 months to produce and a further 12 months to roll out, assuming everyone is on board with that early in the roll out. The next issue, not so much for AUS and NZ is that you cannot be vaccinated whilst you are infected. That's going to be an issue for the US, South America, India, Europe and Africa. Finally, CHINA, AUS and NZ are likely to be returned to the International travel market in the first group. The rest of the world probably won't be ready for us until Europe and the US are returned. So there's a way to go yet.

wheels_down 28th Nov 2020 02:05

A May 21 Vaccine launch won’t reach the whole population in this nation until the 21 year is out.

Skeptical in bubbles, half the states here wouldn’t even risk it I don’t think.

AJ will be out and about pushing bubbles with Asia because he has to. His cash burn will eliminate all domestic earnings until his International arm is back up.

Next year is all about maintaining a rolling and uninterrupted domestic network all days of the year.



dr dre 28th Nov 2020 02:57


AJ will be out and about pushing bubbles with Asia because he has to. His cash burn will eliminate all domestic earnings until his International arm is back up.

Next year is all about maintaining a rolling and uninterrupted domestic network all days of the year.
Domestic travel was always the cash cow. It should be able to sustain a positive income indefinitely. Nations which are more serious about vaccines and health directions (Asian ones I believe) will put better protocols in place to allow early uptake of vaccination and Immunisation passports. This is what the Federal government should be aiming for anyway.

Now we’ve just signed the RCEP, the world’s biggest trade deal, with Asian nations. Australia to the RCEP nation trade is worth $485 billion AUD and includes Australia's 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 9th and 10th largest trading partners. Trade to this region makes up 83% of Australia's total trade (not even including India which may end up joining the agreement). The Federal government will probably want air links to these nations opened up promptly I’d imagine, after a suitable vaccine rollout program.

Latest info is the vaccine program should be started here in March, Asian nations at a similar time. I guess as there’ll be a gradual rise in vaccinated people here will gradually allow flights to increase? (Perhaps a confirmed international trip will allow priority in the vaccine queue).

Xeptu 28th Nov 2020 03:13


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10936094)
Latest info is the vaccine program should be started here in March, Asian nations at a similar time. I guess as there’ll be a gradual rise in vaccinated people here will gradually allow flights to increase? (Perhaps a confirmed international trip will allow priority in the vaccine queue).

Maybe! if we have one. Just us being vaccinated isn't enough for unrestricted International travel, the majority of the destination country must be vaccinated also. Just because you can't be infected doesn't mean you can't carry the virus and infect those who are not vaccinated. So it's going to take time and not every country will be ready at the same time.

Turnleft080 30th Nov 2020 07:36

When McGowan says "I congratulate Vic on reaching 28 days of no contact tracing," though deep down he can't believe
he has to open the border up because their are no more excuses left. Oh! hang on, maybe I can. I hear the vaccines are only
going to be 90% effective, therefore their is a 10% chance of infection. How convenient Sir Humphrey, in that case I shall close the border
until we can find a 100% effective vaccine to protect our WA constituents even beyond the election. Now, Sir Humphrey is that pork barrelling
and spin at it's very best. Yes minister.






blubak 30th Nov 2020 20:06


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10937267)
When McGowan says "I congratulate Vic on reaching 28 days of no contact tracing," though deep down he can't believe
he has to open the border up because their are no more excuses left. Oh! hang on, maybe I can. I hear the vaccines are only
going to be 90% effective, therefore their is a 10% chance of infection. How convenient Sir Humphrey, in that case I shall close the border
until we can find a 100% effective vaccine to protect our WA constituents even beyond the election. Now, Sir Humphrey is that pork barrelling
and spin at it's very best. Yes minister.

Not interested in his congratulations.
He is happy to big note himself at our expense when it suits & now tries to look as if he cares.
Him & queen P can keep themselves locked up forever & continue to play politics in their childish ways.

lucille 30th Nov 2020 22:16


Originally Posted by Green.Dot (Post 10934352)
Welcome back BNEA320, it appears you are no longer banned!

Indeed, it appears I was banned for that post of mine you quoted.

And NO! I am not bnea320, it was an apparently failed attempt by me at dry humour by mentioning his original post... seemingly the mods failed to see the irony of a broken clock being correct two times a day.



dr dre 30th Nov 2020 23:13


Originally Posted by blubak (Post 10937715)
Him & queen P can keep themselves locked up forever & continue to play politics in their childish ways.

Errrr haven’t been watching the news today have you??

Ragnor 1st Dec 2020 00:36

Finally. Last idiot standing has opened up he did run out of excuses in the end.

galdian 1st Dec 2020 00:49


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10937808)
Finally. Last idiot standing has opened up he did run out of excuses in the end.

....on Tuesday Dec 8th....with the proviso no new cases or else expect slamming shut of the border again one assumes.

Be an interesting week.

Green.Dot 1st Dec 2020 05:12


Originally Posted by lucille (Post 10937764)
Indeed, it appears I was banned for that post of mine you quoted.

And NO! I am not bnea320, it was an apparently failed attempt by me at dry humour by mentioning his original post... seemingly the mods failed to see the irony of a broken clock being correct two times a day.

Sorry mate, wasn’t my intention, I know you are not BNEA320- I just noticed he is not banned anymore. Standby for more threads!
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....fc64662e2.jpeg



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