Originally Posted by galdian
(Post 10927291)
Appears likely haven't won the senate.
If Trump was so bad and the Democrats platform so good why didn't they get the clean sweep and absolute control? Because not enough people voted for them. Why......?? |
Originally Posted by Ladloy
(Post 10927307)
I'm sorry, can you point me in the direction of a GOP senate majority?
Happy to be corrected but figures I see indicate GOP 50, DEM 46 and OTHER 2 so GOP have the block numbers to say NO NO NO at will, DEMs do NOT have the block numbers to pass legislation unhindered. |
Originally Posted by galdian
(Post 10927314)
Can you point me in the direction of a Democrat senate majority?
Happy to be corrected but figures I see indicate GOP 50, DEM 46 and OTHER 2 so GOP have the block numbers to say NO NO NO at will, DEMs do NOT have the block numbers to pass legislation unhindered. |
SA is on the increase. 3, then 4 yesterday, and now 17 cases which I'm guessing are all community transmission. Known community transmission, but still community transmission nonetheless. How it got out of the medi-hotel will raise questions, from what I've read Patient Zero worked there and brought it home to her family.
South Australia's worst cluster to date has gone from bad to worse with 17 cases now tied to the family outbreak. Speaking to Adelaide’s 5AA Radio this morning, South Australia’s chief public health officer Dr Nicola Spurrier confirmed the Parafield cluster was growing at a rapid rate. Hungry Jacks Port Adelaide has also been closed and is the latest venue to shut for deep cleanign. Dr Spurrier described the outbreak as “very serious”. South Australia yesterday reported three local coronavirus cases among a family that has members working in hotel quarantine, aged and health care and a large prison. |
Originally Posted by Ladloy
(Post 10927248)
Just like how the feds essentially neglected aged care and Victorians suffered the consequences for it. More to the story than just a bunch of security personnel.
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Originally Posted by chookcooker
(Post 10927327)
yes that explains why the aged care deaths in other states is so high
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WA Health Minister being interviewed at the moment. From the way he is speaking, I would not be surprised if the WA border is closed again today.
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Doubtful that any reasonable person (in WA) would tempt a holiday or family reunion involving interstate travel now with the threat of 14 days isolation without income on return.
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Originally Posted by Ladloy
(Post 10927248)
Just like how the feds essentially neglected aged care and Victorians suffered the consequences for it. More to the story than just a bunch of security personnel.
That argument makes no sense at all. |
Originally Posted by Ladloy
(Post 10927420)
Newmarch house?
now do that for vic aged care deaths. in fact do a bar graph of aged care deaths by state and make sure to leave a tonne of room on the y axis for when you get to Victoria. |
Originally Posted by Ladloy
(Post 10927316)
There's two more elections as a run off for the senate and Harris also has a vote in the senate as VP. The independents are Bernie Sanders and Angus King who caucus for Democrat. Never said democrats won, but dispelling the lies above saying Republicans won.
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Originally Posted by chookcooker
(Post 10927465)
under what circumstances does the VP get a vote in the senate??
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Doubtful that any reasonable person (in WA) would tempt a holiday or family reunion involving interstate travel now with the threat of 14 days isolation without income on return. Would your risk leisure airline travel anywhere in AUS with the State Premiers closing borders at the slightest hint of Covid? |
Originally Posted by Ladloy
(Post 10927316)
There's two more elections as a run off for the senate and Harris also has a vote in the senate as VP. The independents are Bernie Sanders and Angus King who caucus for Democrat. Never said democrats won, but dispelling the lies above saying Republicans won.
Point was if there was so much feeling against GOP/Trump the DEMs should have had a great chance to win all 3 (Whitehouse/Reps/Senate) with clear majorities - that didn't happen. Why?? |
Originally Posted by Square Bear
(Post 10927482)
Would your risk leisure airline travel anywhere in AUS with the State Premiers closing borders at the slightest hint of Covid? |
And as I predicted, WA border now closed to SA.
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Originally Posted by JustinHeywood
(Post 10927441)
What? Did the Feds ‘neglect’ age care ONLY in Victoria?
That argument makes no sense at all. Of course the hotel quarantine caused a lot of it but dont forget who controls the aged care system,the conditions are not unique to victoria. |
Originally Posted by galdian
(Post 10927483)
That's fine, presently the GOP has control of the Senate - but that could change....or not.
Point was if there was so much feeling against GOP/Trump the DEMs should have had a great chance to win all 3 (Whitehouse/Reps/Senate) with clear majorities - that didn't happen. Why?? |
There’s a real question that needs to be asked.
The two significant outbreaks in Australia (Melbourne and now Adelaide) have come as a result of international arrival hotel quarantine breakouts. Regardless of procedures used it’s too much of a risk to house arrivals in hotels in the middle of major cities and allow workers at the hotel and dealing with the arrivals to be in the same environment and then wander freely around these packed cities on their time off. Unless we want to have this problem continue to re-occur over the next 12 months, it’s time to lobby the Federal Government to direct all arrivals to remote facilities (ie Alice Springs or Christmas Island) or have them in full facilities/camps on the outskirts of major cities with a requirement for staff dealing with them to themselves be housed in that facility for the duration of their employment. Otherwise all of us won’t be able to handle this lack of certainty over the next 12 months. |
Spot on Doctor, I agree with you with this one.
Australia has dodged a bullet (somewhat accidentally at a National level) in almost eliminating COVID. Let’s keep dodging that bullet. |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10927495)
There’s a real question that needs to be asked.
The two significant outbreaks in Australia (Melbourne and now Adelaide) have come as a result of international arrival hotel quarantine breakouts. Regardless of procedures used it’s too much of a risk to house arrivals in hotels in the middle of major cities and allow workers at the hotel and dealing with the arrivals to be in the same environment and then wander freely around these packed cities on their time off. Unless we want to have this problem continue to re-occur over the next 12 months, it’s time to lobby the Federal Government to direct all arrivals to remote facilities (ie Alice Springs or Christmas Island) or have them in full facilities/camps on the outskirts of major cities with a requirement for staff dealing with them to themselves be housed in that facility for the duration of their employment. Otherwise all of us won’t be able to handle this lack of certainty over the next 12 months. |
apparently lots of false positives with testing.
Forget about cases. Cases don't mean deaths in general population. We must reopen all borders now. What else are we going to do ? Open & close them everytime we get a few cases in next 10 years ? No one knows if vaccines will actually work or have no long term side effects. This video gives an interesting view on the whole corona con job https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy3t...ature=youtu.be |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10927495)
There’s a real question that needs to be asked.
The two significant outbreaks in Australia (Melbourne and now Adelaide) have come as a result of international arrival hotel quarantine breakouts. Regardless of procedures used it’s too much of a risk to house arrivals in hotels in the middle of major cities and allow workers at the hotel and dealing with the arrivals to be in the same environment and then wander freely around these packed cities on their time off. Unless we want to have this problem continue to re-occur over the next 12 months, it’s time to lobby the Federal Government to direct all arrivals to remote facilities (ie Alice Springs or Christmas Island) or have them in full facilities/camps on the outskirts of major cities with a requirement for staff dealing with them to themselves be housed in that facility for the duration of their employment. Otherwise all of us won’t be able to handle this lack of certainty over the next 12 months. NT version of Birdsville races flyin. |
It's such a pity that this has degenerated into an argument based on Political persuasion rather than objective debate. There'd be very few people who would be able to say they avoided going down this path.
The posturing & point scoring makes it sound like we've beaten COVID and are in the Post Mortem of the crisis, not in a Seasonal lull.
Originally Posted by chookcooker
(Post 10927463)
in fact do a bar graph of aged care deaths by state and make sure to leave a tonne of room on the y axis for when you get to Victoria.
What is hard to find, is accurate & consistent data on the Vic Gov websites. There's either 180 or 159 PSRAC facilities in Vic out of a total of 768 facilities, depending on the website. We're debating without all the data. |
Originally Posted by Potsie Weber
(Post 10927544)
My wife is a front line COVID health care worker. So she should be packed up and sent off to the desert for the next 12mths or so away from family, friends and a normal life, just so you can “handle this lack of certainty” a bit better.
It may have to be a move to a secure facility. Staff could work a roster similar to FIFO workers, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks quarantine, 2 weeks off. If mining FIFO workers can do it then healthcare staff can too. It should only be for a year or so. Yep it’ll be costly, but nowhere near the cost of the breakouts from hotel quarantine in major cities and the ongoing uncertainty with travel that’ll cause. A lot of airline and other employees are out of work and won’t get back to work until this nationwide problem is sorted. So it’s time for the Federal government to get their act together, if they have to offer big $$$ to get the staff (just like how mining companies pay cooks and cleaners big $$$ to stay in remote mining camps for weeks on end) so be it. The overall cost to taxpayers will be less than these constant major city breakouts. Unless someone has a better approach? Because the current system clearly isn’t working. |
With so many unemployed, and hotel quarantine jobs clearly in hot demand, why not only employ people from single person households?
These “large families” quickly spreading the virus are ridiculous. PC and equal opportunity crap and all that can get stuffed. Yes, single people will still mix with outsiders, but to nowhere near the same extent as a crammed household, including kids and the elderly (which of course were living in this outbreak household..) It’s insane that this infected person is living in a big household, with family members in several other high risk fields. Employing single people would drastically lower the likelihood of the virus jumping from the hotel worker, and at very least would buy time between the initial detection of the returned traveller and the worker spreading it to others. |
Originally Posted by TimmyTee
(Post 10927582)
Emp,lying single people would drastically lower the likelihood of the virus jumping from the hotel worker, and at very least would buy time between the initial detection of the returned traveller and the worker spreading it to others.
Maybe even if we relocated the quarantine hotels to more remote cities or ones with less connecting flights to other state capitals. Maybe a Townsville or Rockhampton instead of Brisbane? A Mildura instead of Melbourne or Adelaide? Although I think a fully remote option like Christmas Island, maybe Curtin, maybe Alice Springs?? Time to activate some of the military bases in the north perhaps? Anything’s better than the CBD of all our major cities and the harm to our national economy that occurs when a breakout inevitably occurs. |
I wonder if the lack of attendance recording in pubs, restaurants and numerous other public areas will come back to bite the South Australian government.
On a 4-day trip to Adelaide 4 weekends ago we weren't once asked to record our attendance. |
Originally Posted by GaryGnu
(Post 10927474)
As the tie breaker in case of a 50-50 split.
basically the VP vote is moot if either party holds the senate apart from exceptional circumstances |
Originally Posted by Buster Hyman
(Post 10927552)
It's such a pity that this has degenerated into an argument based on Political persuasion rather than objective debate. There'd be very few people who would be able to say they avoided going down this path.
The posturing & point scoring makes it sound like we've beaten COVID and are in the Post Mortem of the crisis, not in a Seasonal lull. Not hard to find. https://www.health.gov.au/resources/...sidential-care What is hard to find, is accurate & consistent data on the Vic Gov websites. There's either 180 or 159 PSRAC facilities in Vic out of a total of 768 facilities, depending on the website. We're debating without all the data. however, again, when choosing my last slice of Swiss cheese Il go with the ADF over unemployed nobodies after a 5 minute whatsapp interview. |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10927592)
I think the amount of available qualified staff who are single and live alone would be very small. They still would have to buy food and do all the other necessities of modern life which involve coming into contact with others and potentially risk the spread of the virus.
Maybe even if we relocated the quarantine hotels to more remote cities or ones with less connecting flights to other state capitals. Maybe a Townsville or Rockhampton instead of Brisbane? A Mildura instead of Melbourne or Adelaide? Although I think a fully remote option like Christmas Island, maybe Curtin, maybe Alice Springs?? Time to activate some of the military bases in the north perhaps? Anything’s better than the CBD of all our major cities and the harm to our national economy that occurs when a breakout inevitably occurs. Until the general public realise how desperate the plight of the Aussie overseas is there will be little change. This latest Adelaide thing is??? Let’s hope State of Origin is ‘safe’. |
Originally Posted by Global Aviator
(Post 10927652)
This has been suggested many times by many people. In fact the government has been provided many different solutions from many different private enterprises, not dissimilar to the Howard Springs set up. However the government and DFAT say they have it all under control’.
Usually governments are shamed into action. The pressure has to be put back on the Federal Government to take responsibility for quarantining international arrivals in secure remote locations. What will it cost? Tens of millions? A few hundred million? Current cost of one hotel quarantine breakout in Victoria - 7 to 9 billion. Willing to have a few more of those over the next year? |
C441 - It's also not just the recording.
A couple of weeks ago I was in a state with no recent COVID history where I was eating breakfast outside and the waitress came around and proffered me the clipboard and pen onto which I was to write my name for contact tracing. I duly complied, and commented somewhat wryly, "What with the same pen all the everyone else has used?" She looked at me blankly, and I said again. She had no idea what I was on about. The most dangerous states in Aus for an outbreak are the ones where the public - luckily - has not had to be worried about the virus transmission and don't know how to take the most simple precautions. Go to hotels around the rest of the world these days and there is a pile of new clean pens and a basket of used pens at reception. No it's not perfect but it's another 90% barrier. No menus at restaurants either - all QR. Another layer reducing transmission. |
Dr,
Wouldnt the problem be that there are not that many places for the Feds to put the returning Aussies.And whilst I would have excepted a Van, or a tent in the Desert, I am very sure that the average overseas Aussie returnee would not, at least without a whinge and then a very supportive public outcry regarding a minimum standard of a 5 star hotel. And even there lays the problem...a tent or Van in the desert would have to be on ground that is generally under control of a State or territory, not the Feds.. MANUS Island perhaps...but imagine the scream from the left about that...just like when Xmas Island was used for returnees from China. Solution...mmm not from this forum I think, as as great as we are at solving problems......Constitutional change is a huge step outside our gambit. |
Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10927573)
Well obviously there is a weak point, and that’s the hotel quarantine for international travellers and the staff who work in them. It’s going to cause rolling shut down after shut down with no end in sight unless a different approach is taken.
It may have to be a move to a secure facility. Staff could work a roster similar to FIFO workers, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks quarantine, 2 weeks off. If mining FIFO workers can do it then healthcare staff can too. It should only be for a year or so. Yep it’ll be costly, but nowhere near the cost of the breakouts from hotel quarantine in major cities and the ongoing uncertainty with travel that’ll cause. A lot of airline and other employees are out of work and won’t get back to work until this nationwide problem is sorted. So it’s time for the Federal government to get their act together, if they have to offer big $$$ to get the staff (just like how mining companies pay cooks and cleaners big $$$ to stay in remote mining camps for weeks on end) so be it. The overall cost to taxpayers will be less than these constant major city breakouts. Unless someone has a better approach? Because the current system clearly isn’t working. |
Originally Posted by Potsie Weber
(Post 10927708)
It’s not that hard and all it takes is a few sensible measures that EVEYBODY abides by.
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Originally Posted by C441
(Post 10927612)
I wonder if the lack of attendance recording in pubs, restaurants and numerous other public areas will come back to bite the South Australian government.
On a 4-day trip to Adelaide 4 weekends ago we weren't once asked to record our attendance. 2 in particular have been sprouting garbage that they’ve been keeping their states COVID free by slamming the borders shut - this in turn leads to complacency which shows in testing numbers, adherence to social distancing, tracing etc. This whole Adelaide cluster only surfaced because an 80 year old showed up at the ER and then got tested there as part of normal hospital procedure. I’m assuming that means there were days of worsening symptoms with no tests up until the point that a trip to the ER was needed. Contrast that with Sydney where 20,000 + are turning out daily for tests on advice that there’s traces of covid in the sewerage. |
Queen P must be frothing at the mouth today that she slammed the border shut. Seeing QLD is only capable of making one decision a month we will reconvene 26th December or will they be taking the public holiday off?
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And then there's Gladys - Still keeping her economy going while not shoving a pineapple up the asre of every CrowEater by leaving the borders to SA open...
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Only 1 case in SA from yesterday’s testing blitz. Obviously more results to be processed but the premier seemed pretty positive.
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