Ok I’ll leave this now. Australia is a country, it should be a united country, it is far from that.

Quarantine is in place for a reason, sure we can debate home quarantine and other methods but the gov has decided it hotel quarantine.

Australians stuck around the world just need to get home, who really cares where? Yes in an ideal world to where they want to go but that ain’t happening. Welcome them anywhere, do a little research and see the heartache many have gone though to get home.

Back to open borders -

It is great to see Aus opening up, bring on domestic tourism!

Hey I want open borders but certain states have made it political. One state just voted on it so let’s make them realize what they actually voted for and NSW be selective who comes, only NSW residents. I want to be one country but, as seen recently we are apparently not. I’m livid at the situation and how it is being handled now we will be flying to Melbourne before QLD and that to me is just wrong.

Ordinarily it would be highly unusual for a candidate placed third on primary votes to win a seat once preferences are distributed. Not impossible but certainly highly unusual.

Based on the info you've shared I've inferred that you're in Grace Grace's seat of McConell where the Greens' Kirsten Lovejoy is third behind the LNP's Pinky Singh. For Lovejoy to take that seat she needs to be ahead of Singh at the sixth round of preference distributions such that she picks up the LNP's preferences. That is very unlikely to occur. Lovejoy currently trails Singh by 710 votes and there are 1,255 votes for fourth place and below candidates. Lovejoy's problem is that 437 of those votes are split between One Nation and Palmer's UAP so she's not likely to pick up many of them whereas Singh should pick some, if not most, of them up. There's also anti-Greens independent Miranda Bertram's 175 votes that will go anywhere other than to Lovejoy.

Even if Lovejoy picks up all other preferences she will not finish ahead Singh come the sixth round of distributions meaning that she will be eliminated and her votes will be distributed as preferences; they will flow predominantly to Labor. Grace will end up retaining the seat with about a 60/40 2PP.

You people still don't get it.

All the noise "blaming" the premier of QLD re borders got everybody believing it was her decision to make.

Meaning she also got to take the credit, for a decision she didn't make.

Sad really, single issue election, decided on an illusion.

"These directions have all been made under the Queensland Chief Health Officer’s power to give directs to assist in containing, or to respond to, the spread of COVID-19 within the community"

https://justiceconnect.org.au/resour...covid-19-work/

:ugh:

Federally the Greens generally get 10% of the primary vote but do not have 10% of the representation. Nats on the other hand....

I watched Gladiator a few nights ago, and one comment that Marcus Aurelius said to Maximus was "My powers will transfer
to you Maximus, Commodus cannot become Emperor, he is not a moral man. I want you Maximus to end the senators
corruption and free Rome."

Well here we are 2000 years on nothing has changed.

I’ll bet that sounds impressive to you but that’s the way our democracy works. The National Party wins seats with much more than 10% of the votes IN THAT SEAT.

Seeing that we’re making unsupported assertions, I would argue that the Greens exercise vastly more power and more media attention than is justified by their ~10% support.

It's not impressive and you missed my point. I was essentially saying the same thing, that's how democracy works. If you want to talk about power and media attention, look at the constant corruption by Nationals members and the zero media attention it garners. Water Buy backs by Barnarby, Sports rort, everything that Barilaro does, Michael Mccormick helping out his mates from Rex. It seems to be silenced by the newscorp media pretty ******* quick.

ex the ECQ: Compulsory Preferential Voting- and associated Definitions.....
 

Compulsory Preferential Voting in QLD.....

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ECQ link here: https://www.ecq.qld.gov.au/how-to-vote/voting-systems

an Extract:

Quote:

---

Counting a full preference vote

---

Media from- When 'it' happened, ex 2016:

Ex ABC News: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-...s-bill/7348172

Ex the BNE Times: https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...21-goc3bs.html

That's in the House of Reps under full preferential voting. That is not the case in the Senate under proportional representation voting; in the Senate the Greens are marginally over-represented.

So the evil Newscorp somehow ‘silences’ the ABC, Fairfax, Guardian etc about massive LNP corruption? Makes no sense at all.

That’s the trouble with this whole border issue. When we should be sensibly pulling together, too many idiots on all sides just make it all about their personal political hobbyhorse.

It’s too big an issue to be looking at it only with our partisan political glasses.

"That’s the trouble with this whole border issue. When we should be sensibly pulling together, too many idiots on all sides just make it all about their personal political hobbyhorse."

Too right.

Often thought watching the reportage of late, "how is that meant to help?"

Drive around Cairns. Tourism might be open but are trading on average 70% down. Many actually had less cash burn with closed businesses and jobkeeper active. I know some have actually closed all together not even risking the upcoming wet season which is expected to bring a drenching for months.

Much support was offered this election around tourism marketing. Zero point of nobody can come. The CNY crowds won’t be coming in a few months, and god help us if a cyclone rolls on in soon, which appears bloody likely!

The s#!t will hit the fan on Qld when JK stops.
If the Qld Govt was picking up the tab for JK, the borders would have been opened long ago what ever the CMO said.
Actually come to think of it, the CMO did say that money counts, but only if you are a "star" be it film or sport.
People who have real jobs don't count.

Excuse me “you people”

How do you explain WA CMO recommending it’s safe to open their border months ago but WA premier overrides that CMO. We only know that because of a Clive Palmer.

Same reason Queen P won’t release QLD CMO documents on her decisions on the border it’s all a big secret. JY only says what she is told to say at the press conferences.

Fairfax is headed by Costello, ABC by Buttrose who is hesvily tied to the LNP and no one takes the Guardian seriously. The narrative is controlled, just look at the last 20 years of newscorp supporting the LNP at every state election. A news conglomerate should be independent. There's the partisan stain we have on our society.

Everyone is sensibly pulling together in their respective states as border closures are incredibly popular especially in WA and Tas. QLD now made their decision that they support border closures too. We suffer as airline employees and so does the tourism industry. Vic has now pulled its head in, hopefully everything will be open soon.

Yep, absolutely correct. I was looking at earlier figures where the projection was that the Greens candidate would slightly outpoll the LNP even though she was 400 votes behind at the time. Grace Grace, the Labor incumbent, seems now certain to retain the seat.

This time, yes. Plenty of alarm bells ringing for Ignazia Graziella though. McConell in 2020 looks similar enough to South Brisbane in 2017 for the Greens to be thinking that it's gettable in 2024.

I will say this really slowly so you understand.

QLD is not WA.

They have different systems. Both of which are different to NSW.

Control passed to the CHO in QLD on January 29 this year when the health emergency was declared (in QLD) Includes legislative powers.

No need to call it in NSW as the CMO already has extensive powers. Extensive meaning "any means necessary" extensive.

https://www.health.qld.gov.au/system...lth-act-powers

"Who makes the decision to close Queensland's borders?"

"On paper, it's Chief Health Officer Dr Jeannette Young, but she would be discussing those decisions with key players in the Government."

"Does the Premier have any say on the border?"

"Although the final decision is made by the CHO, the Premier is able to contribute information that the State Government considers relevant."

Source - Bond University Law Professor Jonathan Crowe

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-...harge/12753776

What a load of rubbish. The CHO holds their role at the complete discretion of the premier so, in effect, the CHO will do whatever the premier tells her to. So the relevant information that the state government contributes is "do it or else"!

Source please.

"What the chief health officer in Queensland says goes, it's the law."

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/leave-he...order-closures

Worked for the Public service before? That’s my source.

Having worked in the building, if your telling me a Labor premier is taking orders from some public servant ,well it sounds like your living on mars my friend. I actually nearly fell over when I read that.

Spare me the laws. Same down south. What Dan wants, is what Dan most certainly gets.

So you don't reckon the electorate got it wrong?

Because I certainly do.

Got what wrong? Who they elected? Of course it’s wrong.

Indeed.

My contention is the election was won/ lost on the border issue.

When in fact the border situation was not going to change regardless of who was premier.

Due to the legislation as explained above.

And, as you contend, if it does in fact come from the premier, this -

"Opposition leader Deb Frecklington has backed the decision to close the Queensland border to NSW"

https://www.4bc.com.au/queensland-op...ge-on-borders/

"Opposition Leader Deb Frecklington has sought to distance herself from NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian's comment that she would "definitely open the border" if elected."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-...rders/12819658

Only after months of saying the border should be open or following morrision around like a puppy dog when he was saying we should reopen borders. But honestly her screw ups were the curfew plan, getting reported by her own party over a dinner party with developers or a multitude of a massive projects that were uncosted ie 4 lane bruce highway gympie to cairns. 33 billion cost but no plan on where the money was coming from, then in next breath complaining about lab taking out loans. Or the standard health policy of "clear waiting times" same policy that newman had but for some unexplainable reason if you sack 10% of Qhealth employees somehow the queues get longer. But again no actual details on how they would do it.

On the curfew plan, they announced a plan that kids of the street after 10 (depending on age) would be taken home and the parents fined. Heres something betting the kid in question would give zero ***** about, well except maybe the beating that could be on the cards. It took them a few weeks to come up with a policy about what would happen to these kids, like being taken into diversion centers, handed over a social workers etc. But in that 2 weeks the media had moved on and it was old news and they dont care about old news. This policy arguably cost them the win in the 3 townsville seats

Labor did not win, this was for the LNP to win, but the LNP lost due to themselves

One of them is lying
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...28-p569gg.html

from debs facebook on 10th of juneLabor’s border shambles is closing businesses and costing jobs across the state.

Businesses need certainty which is why the LNP is calling for our borders to re-open to all Australians in July.

It’s time to restart our economy and secure local jobs.

**edit** I believe for a functioning democracy you need at least 2, preferably more competent functioning parties. Hopefully the LNP figure that opposition they have 4 years where they can brainstorm policies and plans then cost them out make sure they are throroughly detailed. Then throw in the filing cabinet and then once the next election is looming they can pull them and review and modify the ones they want to take to next election. There is absolutely no reason that the oposition should be caught out with a poorly costed or a detailed plan when its fixed length. You know down the day when the election is going to be

ex ABC News: Opposition Leader Deb Frecklington stands down as ........
 

Apparently, 'Dog Whistling' - don't Werk.......????

Whom, knew...... Link here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-...e-lnp/12834976

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a brief Extract:

Good to see Victoria on the up and up 4th day with zero. Hopefully Gladys will make the announcement tomorrow on when that hard border will drop between NSW and VIC.

Well, she did say that Queensland hospitals were for Queenslanders, so I guess closing Sydney airport (and quarantine) to her constituents would be a reasonable extension of her own policy.

Given what is now known about the disease's incubation period it would be foolhardy in the extreme to use a 5 day case free period as the arbiter for lifting restrictions. You'd want to look at at least 14 days case free before releasing the pigeons.

Yes I agree, considering the 111 days of being locked down I’m sure Victorians would be pleased with the immediate results and that seem to be positive. The test will be in the coming weeks when there is one or two cases and how they handle them.
Seems here in NSW we always have these annoying one or two cases that keep popping up but are well handled. It would be good if each state resident flew directly to their home state, so it’s time for WA and QLD to step up and take their residents back then NSW could escape those pesky false headlines of “covid cases rise” blah blah blah from international travelers. Other states want to block NSW from traveling I would be very happy if NSW stopped international travels that do not reside in NSW.

Had the options pre Covid been able to avoid using Sydney for my flights and cruises, I would happily avoided the place like the plague.

Regarding 4 days of zero cases today was cup day and 30 degrees. I would say two to 300,000 people would of attended beaches from
Williamstown all the way round to Rosebud maybe more. It will be interesting if all of them were tested for covid in the next 10 days.
If zero cases amongst that lot, then it is safe to say that covid is caught indoors not outdoors. Plus more than half were not wearing
masks or not properly. There lies the paradox. Dan Andrews said a few months back if you walk out your front door you will die and
kill others. All the beach goers at Bondi/Manly have also proved no cases. Must be that Vit D thing that all CHOs don't want to know
about because it's against their philosophy in fact have any health departments around the world mentioned boosting your immune
system and good gut flora.

If you sneeze does UVA/UVB obliterate and dissipate Covid, that's another good question. More tests need to be done
on this and Vit D. Sneezing indoors is so much more contagious due to no ventilation and possibly know sunlight hitting it.
I suspect the mask thing will be optional outdoors and compulsory indoors when the ring of steel goes on 11th Nov.

Everyday an English doctor does an update Dr John Campbell and let me tell you he gives you a pretty good
presser not like some of our CHOs and premiers that got know idea what their talking about. Even the WHO and Fauci at times
don't know what their talking about. That's my rant for the week.

Havent heard her say that Qld tourism facilities are only for queenslanders but thats exactly what she is doing with her border closing politically motivated decisions.
Well done to the theme park operators who refused her entry last week,time it was more than all about her.
Lets see what she does when she wakes up & sees the amount of people in queensland who will not have a job to go back to in the tourism sector due to the people of other states voting with their feet & spending their tourism $ where its appreciated.

Vic has just scored 5 ducks, going for a double hat trick tomorrow that WA bloke and the QLD matriarch must be getting worried.
What, open the border to the leper colony you must be joking?

On the contrary

The USA records 60,000 cases a day and all 50 state borders are open and the amount of
aircraft activity is frantic on Radar24 almost like a normal pre covid day.

NSW will open border with Victoria on November 23

To her credit, Hot Mess Gladys seems to be the Premier taking the most practical approach to border closures in this country. :D

Yes i think her decisions come from dealing with reality not fantasy unlike queen p to her north.
Maybe her decision to hook up with that guy wasnt the smartest but lots of us make wrong decisions in our personal life.
It reinforces that playing politics needs to be put aside as rebuilding the country with common sense decisions is what is needed.

She is the best premier in the country. Who cares what she did or who she did in her personal life nothing illegal.

NSW is doing the best in the world. Maybe QLD and WA could take some notes

I don't entirely buy her line "I didn't know or care about his finances" - especially when she's reported to have told him "I don't need to know about that". To me, it sounds like she knew, or suspected he was up to something dodgy and wanted plausible deniability.

That being said, ICAC hasn't found her to 1. Have actual knowledge about ol' mate's dodginess, 2. Participated in said dodginess or 3. Been dodgy herself. So I'm happy to give her the benefit of the doubt at this point, and roundly applaud her handling of the COVID issues. I do think they screwed the pooch with the Ruby Princess, but that may well have been the wakeup call they needed to get their shyte sorted and deliver the results they have from then on.

NSW has processed more international arrivals than anyone else, has had several minor outbreaks thus far, managed to keep their borders open to every state bar one and still managed to keep the states economy plugging away. That's worthy of a :ok: in anyone's book.

ExpressJet Shuts Down, Idling 3,000 Airline Workers
American Airlines begins furloughs for 19,000 workers
Airlines Near 50,000 Job Cuts as American, United Feel Squeeze
Miami Air ends operations after 29 years

And that's only for now, more expected next year because the dysfunctional US government can't provide assistance for the airline industry.

Letting the virus rip through the nation doesn't mean boom times for airlines. It's the opposite.

In comparison:
China Southern Turns Third Quarter Profit Amid Rebounding Market
How major South Korean airlines made profits during pandemic
Air New Zealand will operate 90 per cent of its pre-COVID-19 domestic schedule

Nations that took strict initial measures and dealt with the pandemic seriously are doing better and rebounding. It's obvious which path Australia should follow.