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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Chris2303 14th Aug 2021 05:55

I may have said this before but it needs saying again

The world will NEVER EVER be what it was pre Covid.

If you can't accept that then I am sorry for you.

Xeptu 14th Aug 2021 06:06


Originally Posted by Gnadenburg (Post 11094803)
I've struggled to follow the meanings of your posts. Some of our States have an economically unsustainable, though political acceptable, policy of Elimination. Yours has always been a policy of Fear.

Australia has the means to come out of this pandemic yet many seem to lack the will. It's too cosy for many not affected.

Have you been infected personally, are you a long covid sufferer, if the answers to that question is no, then go and get yourself infected, preferably while helping those that are.
Then come back and have this conversation, we'll see if you still follow the same line of learn to live with it, no matter what.

43Inches 14th Aug 2021 06:27


43Inches - what a lot of bollocks.

The USA owes its death rate to ignoring the virus under trump. Since the vaccinations came online and Biden, the US are way ahead wrt to vaccination rates. The US is fully open. You DO NOT need a vaccination passport or even to be vaccinated to enter the US.

Studies are showing that Delta is infecting even vaccinated people. Lockdowns will not stop the infections. Excess deaths are the only metric that governments should be reporting. Gladys talking about people in there 90s dying of Covid is pointless. She even reported of a person in his 90s dying - Fully Vaccinated. Today she announced some poor person dying from Covid - oh but he was in palliative care .....

The Australian public is fed fear. End these bloody lockdowns. THE VIRUS IS HERE and we need to live with it. if you are scared of catching it, don't mix with the public.
If the USA recovered so well why is their Covid recovery package over double per capita than Australia? $6 Trillion USD with more slated to come, which is over $22,000 per person with about another $10,000 per person expected in the next year. That is Stimulus alone, not the cost of Covid.

Meanwhile Australia has only spent around $11,000 AUD ($8000 USD)per person on Covid stimulus and still is better off compared the US when you factor recovery since last year.

Again ranting emotive language will not change the data.

As far as scared, you should be if you are not vaccinated, if you are then you have no reason to fear it. The mortality rate and severe complications become comparable to the flu once vaccinated. My Opinion is that Australia will most likely open around New Year or earlier if vaccine targets are met. From then you are either vaccinated or have Covid the natural way.

machtuk 14th Aug 2021 07:05


Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc (Post 11094804)
43Inches - what a lot of bollocks.

The USA owes its death rate to ignoring the virus under trump. Since the vaccinations came online and Biden, the US are way ahead wrt to vaccination rates. The US is fully open. You DO NOT need a vaccination passport or even to be vaccinated to enter the US.

Studies are showing that Delta is infecting even vaccinated people. Lockdowns will not stop the infections. Excess deaths are the only metric that governments should be reporting. Gladys talking about people in there 90s dying of Covid is pointless. She even reported of a person in his 90s dying - Fully Vaccinated. Today she announced some poor person dying from Covid - oh but he was in palliative care .....

The Australian public is fed fear. End these bloody lockdowns. THE VIRUS IS HERE and we need to live with it. if you are scared of catching it, don't mix with the public.


couldn't agree more Rexy but trust me you are wasting yr breath on some in here, they are locked in to the fear and nothing will sway them!-) I'm not vaxed never will be and that drive some crazy, I love it, still waiting to die, according to them! -)

43Inches 14th Aug 2021 07:17


I don't follow your economic modelling. However, I did not say let it rip. I believe the politics of COVID elimination will be devastating by next year. Eventually some of us will have to die. Hopefully, vaccinations protect most. But this path is not sustainable, not for the economy, not for social cohesion, not for dealing with emerging security threats.
No doubt, but that's why I said i believe that that will all change in a few more months as the vaccine rate hits targets. Remembering that from when you start getting vaccinated it's a minimum of 6 -8 weeks before you are fully protected, that's assuming Pfizer, Az being 3 months or so. Its pretty important to get on the way soon if that's what you want.


I'm not vaxed never will be and that drive some crazy, I love it, still waiting to die, according to them!
If you want to be Macho about it and wrestle with the virus with your pure unadulterated immune system, go for it. It just sounds like challenging the gods to a duel for no reason other than an authority complex. I'm sure the virus will appreciate the easy ride, if it had that ability, to appreciate that is.

Xeptu 14th Aug 2021 07:32


Originally Posted by machtuk (Post 11094837)
couldn't agree more Rexy but trust me you are wasting yr breath on some in here, they are locked in to the fear and nothing will sway them!-) I'm not vaxed never will be and that drive some crazy, I love it, still waiting to die, according to them! -)

I actually admire your decision, not judging either way, your one of those we need to stay in touch with to see how that goes long term.

43Inches 14th Aug 2021 07:59

The only further point I'd cover is that statement probably just null and voided any loss of medical insurance you have, so not necessarily smart to let it be known public if you are covered by a policy. Same as suicide clauses you wont be covered for anything you could reasonably be expected to have covered yourself against. If you should have issues due to covid.

S0L0 14th Aug 2021 08:20


Originally Posted by machtuk (Post 11094837)
couldn't agree more Rexy but trust me you are wasting yr breath on some in here, they are locked in to the fear and nothing will sway them!-) I'm not vaxed never will be and that drive some crazy, I love it, still waiting to die, according to them! -)

Iím not allowed to post links but do a quick search of anti vaxxers who have died from COVID.
Good luck champ!

Capn Rex Havoc 14th Aug 2021 08:45

43in

If you want to be Macho about it and wrestle with the virus with your pure unadulterated immune system, go for it. It just sounds like challenging the gods to a duel for no reason other than an authority complex. I'm sure the virus will appreciate the easy ride, if it had that ability, to appreciate that is
Did you miss my post re VACCINATED people still transmit the virus.


As far as scared, you should be if you are not vaccinated, if you are then you have no reason to fear it.
But vaccinated people are still catching it and dying - so I guessed you are stuffed. I heard Gladys say that a gentleman died yesterday in Sydney - fully vaccinated.

MachTuck - I will have a beer with you - no vaccination passport required.

43Inches 14th Aug 2021 08:58


Did you miss my post re VACCINATED people still transmit the virus.
I think you have missed that the point of mass vaccinations is to reduce the symptoms and rates of death in individuals. Vaccinated people with breakthrough cases have more than 90% less rate of death or severe symptoms. Reduced symptoms like coughing and such would also reduce the spread relative to someone coughing all over the place.

Once enough of the population is vaccinated the country can open, people will still get sick, but they will not die and far less will require hospital/medical services. That will happen towards the end of the year. After that I'm pretty sure empathy for unvaccinated will go out the window and economics will prevail.

Not quite sure why people thinking it still spreads while you are vaccinated means it don't work. Same as the flu vaccine its there to reduce effects, not stop it. However some individuals may even be protected enough to claim full immunity from it.

Just look at the UK, massive case rates, very low death and hospitalisation rates. Not ideal to have large cases, as it allows for mutation, but as long as the death and hospitalisation rates state way down like they are, things will open.


SHVC 14th Aug 2021 09:00


Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc (Post 11094878)
I heard Gladys say that a gentleman died yesterday in Sydney - fully vaccinated.

Thatís true, donít let the facts ruin the story tho.
there was a 90yr old
there was a 40yr old that was already in palliative care
the was a 70 yr old with pre existing medical conditions all three the only fully vaccinated to die in NSW.

43Inches 14th Aug 2021 09:10


The only further point I'd cover is that statement probably just null and voided any loss of medical insurance you have, so not necessarily smart to let it be known public if you are covered by a policy. Same as suicide clauses you wont be covered for anything you could reasonably be expected to have covered yourself against. If you should have issues due to covid.
What a load of rubbish...AGAIN!
Um, I don't think you've ever read the fine print on your insurance policy. You are one funny character, sounds like you don't like me and just have to say something that isn't particularly intelligent just to amuse me.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-v...ance-premiums/

Here's one way the US system may be covering for unvaccinated employees.

In the US where some states are mandating you can't force employees to vaccinate the health insurers are responding that premiums will rise for unvaccinated due to elevated risk. It will either follow here, or further that they just exclude those that don't vaccinate.

Taggert 14th Aug 2021 09:20

If anyone thinks for a minute that the individual state's won't lockdown after the target of 70/80% is reached, then you are delusional. Why would they risk voter backlash? Andrews has already said he will if he has to.

Capn Rex Havoc 14th Aug 2021 09:21

This is from the England Public Health weekly Technical Briefings - the integrity of their data is probably the best out there (or at least the best that is written in English). The English govt updates this every week. Amazing data really.

Here is the link to their Technical Briefing #20 which covers everything to do with Covid cases, hospitalisations and deaths from Feb 1, 2021 – August 2, 2021.

You can see the data on this link: https://assets.publishing.service.go...riefing_20.pdf

They cover all the variants, but these days, nearly everything is all Delta. You can see this on page 20.

If you go to page 18, you can see data for Cases, People who attended Emergency but did not get hospitalised, Hospitalisations and Deaths. Take a look through it.

Where you see the word “Unlinked” – this means that they are not sure if it is Delta or a different variant. Either way they could not determine the genome sequencing.

Where you see the word “Inclusions”, this means that that the patient presented for another reason, but by chance, upon testing, also had Covid. So they have included these cases in the figures.

Where you see “Exclusions”, this means that they have excluded cases where Covid was not the reason of going to the hospital.

Anyway here are the results; and through laziness, I have counted “Vaccinated” are those who have had at least 1 shot; but the data separates out 1 shot and double shot if you want to drill down.

Total Delta Cases Vaccinated Unvaccinated

300,010. 117,115 147,612

Delta Hospitalisations Vaccinated Unvaccinated

3,030 1,249. 1,738

Delta Deaths Vaccinated Unvaccinated

742. 481 253

Fascinating numbers. Either way, deaths are super low. But I think it would surprise most to see current Vaccinated deaths are nearly twice of the unvaccinated. And also that those vaccinated deaths are coming from slightly less cases and slightly less hospitalizations

Conclusions: Well the death rate last year for the Alpha strain was much higher. The Delta strain is more contagious but less deadly. And likely the Vaccine is more effective against Alpha than with Delta, because it was designed for Alpha OR maybe the vaccines are waning. Boosters designed for Delta are likely on the way but by the time they come, Delta may no longer be the dominant strain.

So 43inches - There is some data for you. You may have a tad misplaced faith in the vaccines. Delta is winning the war. Vaccinations passports - Useless/pointless.

43Inches 14th Aug 2021 09:27

No misplaced faith at all, spent a number of days last week talking to actual doctors in a hospital. They pretty much all agreed the data from around the world is unanimous in that the vaccines reduce deaths and hospitalisations from Covid in as much as 97%. If the data you presented is accurate it goes directly against what health care professionals are being informed. BTW they were all 100% vaccinated some with AZ. Doctors and nurses, many with stories of friends with long covid from last years episode.

I'm, mostly fighting to get people to vaccinate because I've seen and talked to medical staff who are just frustrated with the crap circulating on this, basically trying to help them out, as they are the ones on the front line that cop it when it gets out of control. That and the others that actually argue with them while they are dieing of covid that covid doesn't exist. The shite you see people do in hospitals just goes beyond belief, when all the staff are doing is trying to help.


So 43inches - There is some data for you. You may have a tad misplaced faith in the vaccines. Delta is winning the war. Vaccinations passports - Useless/pointless.
I just read the document, you have either been intentionally mischievous or not understood it properly.

The Delta Death vs Vaccintated or Unvaccinated has to be done vs age group.

SO in the over 50 bracket. The total that received two doses and died was 389 of 21,472 cases, 1.8%, 1131 needed overnight hospitalisation 5.3%. The total Unvaxed death rate was 205 of 3440 cases, 6%, 670 hospitalised overnight, 20%.

Those figures show about 75% reduction in severity of outcomes for the vaccinated, that's still pretty compelling evidence vaccinations are doing what they should.

One thing that really stands out is that under 50, 4 times more infections were among unvaccinated than vaccinated. Thats why your total figures came to a skewed answer, only 20,000 under 50 vaccinated had the virus, vs 147,000 unvaccinated with virus. So if you grouped them with the over 50s it would give you a flawed death rate. Fact is it shows that as well as slowing symptoms it is actually infecting less vaccinated persons. Connsidering the majority of the UK is now vaccinated to have such one sided figures means there is some complete immunity happening at a high rate.

machtuk 14th Aug 2021 09:57

This thread is more entertaining than Question time in the kindergarten they call Parliment house! -)
You couldn't dream this sh1t up for a fiction novel if ya tried! -)


Rexy we won't live long enuf to have a beer mate, by all accounts we should be dead by now and a few will be very disappointed if we don't! -) -)

43Inches 14th Aug 2021 10:11


If anyone thinks for a minute that the individual state's won't lockdown after the target of 70/80% is reached, then you are delusional. Why would they risk voter backlash? Andrews has already said he will if he has to.
They would have to have a damn good reason to lockdown without voter backlash if we did reach targets and not "unlock". I think you would face too much civil disobedience for them to go that route even if they wanted to. Once you promise something you need to deliver or you will get the flick.

unexplained blip 14th Aug 2021 10:13

Vaccinations passports might be a little pointless only if you think that the purpose is to indicate that said person won't catch it nor won't transit it. Quite useful if you think the purpose is to (i) save them from themselves ie make sure they have taken some basic precautions (ii) not displace an ICU bed from a cancer or trauma patient, if and when they return home needing hospitalization (iii) not transmit COVID to some poor immuno-suppressed bugger in hospital when they drag their unvaxxed asre home and have to share a ward.

I have not heard anyone half-sensible say/write something other than once we are at 70% to 80% vaxxed then the unvaxxed can basically get shafted and mother nature can pick off the weak ones. Even so-called Chairman Dan said stuff to this effect about six weeks ago. Right now however we have a huge slice of the population that have not had prior opportunity.

It is perfectly clear that there is a significant % of case fatality in Aus amongst not particularly vulnerable pax not lucky enough to secure a vax, and that nowhere in the world has any authority managed to keep COVID in a simmer state. You either crush it, let it rip, or sit hopelessly in purgatory like NSW. Happy happy simmer state does not exist. Welcome Glady and friends to the reality, truly sorry for 5m people or so in Sydney that lost a full six weeks before it clicked.

Just get to 70% and 80% vax and then social and political pressure will deal with the rest. We're all sick of this and the vaxxed will not tolerate 2022 being restricted whatsoever. First hand experience says that certainly that is more or less where the CoA thinking is at in Aus at the present time, and probably from here on in.

So stop bashing 43 and DD from boredom; we're not at a point where let-it-rip is yet wise, but it is coming and it will happen. Until then it will all be sh*t.


Paragraph377 14th Aug 2021 11:15

43 inches truly lives in eternal fear of catching the dreaded China virus. Itís so funny because you 43 inches being a triple vaccinated, 5 x mask wearing, face shield wearing, hand sanitizer strapped to the waste belt, locked in a basement with its own oxygen supply person will likely catch it anyway!!!

neville_nobody 14th Aug 2021 12:01


If anyone thinks for a minute that the individual state's won't lockdown after the target of 70/80% is reached, then you are delusional. Why would they risk voter backlash? Andrews has already said he will if he has to.
If that holds true there won't be an airline industry in this country anymore. Noone is going to last another year of the current insanity.

It's illegal but all three airlines should just collude and go to the government with a date on which they will close the doors if the borders don't fully open without restriction.


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