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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

43Inches 22nd Jul 2021 10:57


Also some of us suggested back then, Why not isolate the elderly and vulnerable and keep the young ones working. That was without a vaccine at the time. Wuhan strain. Deadly
So I will ask that same question today, Why not isolate the elderly and vulnerable and keep the young ones working. Now 70% vaxed over 70yo protected . Delta strain. Not as Deadly.
But all comes back to that word suppression.
The Andrews gov tried that coming out of the very first lockdown and were lulled into a warm fuzzy feeling by the federal gov that it would be easy to track and trace the virus and keep the community levels low. What they found was that this was not the case, the virus got loose in a school, and in the casual workforce due to the socio-economic locale of the breakout. Before you could blink it was in several aged care facilities that were still in complete lockdown and numbers swelled to 700 cases and deaths mounted, one of those aged care facilities was not more than 500 mtrs from me and 15 km from the nearest outbreak spot. I still have no idea how the virus got into that one. It was unnerving to see the area roped off and spacesuits walking around throwing out bedding and fittings into a giant plastic lined skip. Sydney was lucky as its breakout locations were easily contained back then. This is why Melbourne moved to suppression as it was clear you could not isolate vulnerable people within a community from the community, as the facilities require the community to operate. Also you then have the million plus Victorians over 50 and vulnerable who are not in care and definitely can not isolate from the community indefinitely.

This year the tables were turned, in a way, Melbourne had learned from harsh reality that they had to stomp on it early and hard, which has worked every-time since. Sydney tried to play politics in the last month rather than deal with it and is now paying the price.

If we had 80% vaccinations, no prob, non event, but its the opposite of that presently.

Xeptu 22nd Jul 2021 12:38


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 11083053)
Also some of us suggested back then, Why not isolate the elderly and vulnerable and keep the young ones working. That was without a vaccine at the time. Wuhan strain. Deadly
So I will ask that same question today, Why not isolate the elderly and vulnerable and keep the young ones working. Now 70% vaxed over 70yo protected . Delta strain. Not as Deadly.
But all comes back to that word suppression.

Because 80% of our population want "zero community transmission" particularly while the vaccination rate is so low. when those two numbers come closer together then policy will be
re-assessed. Until then, we do it the way we're currently doing it. There is still plenty of room for improving the way we're doing it.

itsnotthatbloodyhard 22nd Jul 2021 12:46


Originally Posted by Aussie Bob (Post 11082923)
From the ABC news web site today.
Two deaths in the last week and you blokes wonder why there is hesitancy in Australia?

Because we are a bit irrational when it comes to assessing risk. This was a good article on it: https://www.smh.com.au/national/worr...20-p58beh.html

Muttley Crew 22nd Jul 2021 13:50


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11082812)
You guys keeping posting those numbers without ever including this statement on the exact same page:

FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines.

You keeping repeating those figures but never include that statement. Every time you do someone sensible here points out that CDC statement, but you guys continue to post that rubbish again and again as if you’ve just made some incredible discovery the “brainwashed sheeple” aren’t aware of.

Can’t you see people on this page aren’t falling for this?

Using what is nothing more than a disclaimer on the VAERS website as support for your specious argument while ignoring the acknowledged fact of deaths with (or after having had) Covid 19 being counted as deaths from Covid 19 in this country and others, thereby inflating death tolls and adversely influencing public opinion, is hypocritical and disingenuous at best. At worst it is grossly misleading and potentially damaging to the ignorant who, amazingly, seem to find the basis for their beliefs in, of all places, this forum. Your skill is in cherry-picking factoids and assembling them in such a way as to imply authority and a veracity beyond question, to suit your own preferred perspective. Despite urging others to acknowledge some vague proposition of your own you won't acknowledge or clarify your true motivation for your attempts to convince the uncertain.


Originally Posted by Gnadenburg
And out of interest ( again ) can reluctant vaxers post as to whether they've lost their livelihoods in aviation due to COVID?

I suppose they can. If you're insisting that they do so, let's also ask that the "vaxers" also "post as to whether (or not) they've lost their livelihoods in aviation due to COVID19" vaccination? I know of several who have but doubt they're contributing on here.


Originally Posted by sumtingwong
And here you post as self appointed Lord of the peanuts.
Condescending hypocrite.

My apologies, wong, obviously I hadn't thought of you, specifically, when I referred to the desperate, ignorant, occasionally rabid, knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers of the peanut gallery and am saddened to learn you consider yourself one of them. If it helps, I firmly doubt your knuckles truly drag.

dr dre 22nd Jul 2021 14:26

What a valuable contribution Muttley, can you please post a link from a credible source where you verify these “facts”:


Originally Posted by Muttley Crew (Post 11083198)
Using what is nothing more than a disclaimer on the VAERS website


while ignoring the acknowledged fact of deaths with (or after having had) Covid 19 being counted as deaths from Covid 19 in this country and others, thereby inflating death tolls and adversely influencing public opinion,


PoppaJo 22nd Jul 2021 22:09

It’s curfew time Gladys.

The stories being put on talkback this morning the mind boggles. Home to Home transmission will be impossible to contain. Can they not go a few weeks of their lives without going to someone else’s house? Is it really that bloody hard?

blubak 22nd Jul 2021 22:32


Originally Posted by PoppaJo (Post 11083387)
It’s curfew time Gladys.

The stories being put on talkback this morning the mind boggles. Home to Home transmission will be impossible to contain. Can they not go a few weeks of their lives without going to someone else’s house? Is it really that bloody hard?

Couldnt agree more,its not what i or anyone else wants but as you say 'is it really that bloody hard'.
The same can be said about groups of people exercising together at bondi,is it that bloody hard to exercise alone or if with someone to stay a couple of metres apart?

SHVC 22nd Jul 2021 22:48

You can’t exercise with a coffee in hand. Bondi are treating it as a joke.

ScepticalOptomist 22nd Jul 2021 23:08


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11083402)
You can’t exercise with a coffee in hand...

Walk, talk, drink coffee. Perfect way to get in some exercise.

Xeptu 22nd Jul 2021 23:10

Just out of interest, to the pilot group, hard wired for contingency. How many have a bugout plan in the event of a breakout strain that turns out to be fatal, vaccinated or not.
That's a pre-planned course of action and the trigger, not what you're going to do on the day when the news breaks.

ScepticalOptomist 22nd Jul 2021 23:16


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11083407)
Just out of interest, to the pilot group, hard wired for contingency. How many have a bugout plan in the event of a breakout strain that turns out to be fatal, vaccinated or not.
That's a pre-planned course of action and the trigger, not what you're going to do on the day when the news breaks.

Bugout of what? Aviation? Society? There’s shit loads of stuff that can kill us including life itself. What are you afraid of?

Xeptu 22nd Jul 2021 23:19

well we need something to spice up the thread abit. It's got boring with the same old crap, Time for some new crap.

Gnadenburg 22nd Jul 2021 23:19


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11083407)
Just out of interest, to the pilot group, hard wired for contingency. How many have a bugout plan in the event of a breakout strain that turns out to be fatal, vaccinated or not.
That's a pre-planned course of action and the trigger, not what you're going to do on the day when the news breaks.

My survival template for Martian invasion should hold up for this scenario.

WingNut60 22nd Jul 2021 23:21


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11083407)
Just out of interest, to the pilot group, hard wired for contingency. How many have a bugout plan in the event of a breakout strain that turns out to be fatal, vaccinated or not.
That's a pre-planned course of action and the trigger, not what you're going to do on the day when the news breaks.

My plan? Wait for another vaccine!

ScepticalOptomist 22nd Jul 2021 23:22


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11083413)
My plan? Wait for another vaccine!

Seems like the Aussie way nowadays is to cower, hide, and wait for someone else to do something! :-)

Foxxster 22nd Jul 2021 23:25

Heard a professor from Harvard medical school on radio this morning. Made the most sense of anyone. Simply put he said get the vulnerable vaccinated, those over 60. Then open up. No lockdowns. We are just about at that point now. He also said getting children vaccinated was not a good option as they are at more risk of the vaccine than the virus. But what do we have nsw saying today, get the 12 plus year old kids vaccinated. How many 12 year olds have died worldwide of WuHu flu.

lockdowns cause massive financial and mental harm and delay other treatment for serious disease.

we should get the over 60s vaccinated which could be achieved by the end of August. Then no more lockdowns in any state, no more border closures.

as an aside, as we all knew about the Queensland border closure, apparently a hotel on the border near tweed heads was booked a week ago for 80 police starting today. So yes the border closure was pre planned a week ago, just after all the league families arrived .

KRviator 22nd Jul 2021 23:29


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11083210)
What a valuable contribution Muttley, can you please post a link from a credible source where you verify these “facts”:

The UK counts dying from any cause within 4 weeks of a positive test in their "Covid Deaths" summary. I am led to believe they have now moved exclusively to (2), but it still does not differentiate someone dying with Covid from someone dying because of Covid.


Originally Posted by The UK Government
There are 2 definitions of a death in a person with COVID-19 in England, one broader measure and one measure reflecting current trends:
1) A death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 test and either died within 60 days of the first specimen date or died more than 60 days after the first specimen date, only if COVID-19 is mentioned on the death certificate
2) A death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 test and died within (equal to or less than) 28 days of the first positive specimen date. Source

You could die from a heart attack or stroke within those 28 days and it'll still count towards their "Death by Covid" statistics. I do not have the time nor inclination to try to find and go through their published cause-of-death statistics to try to determine any significant differences from previous years for each listed cause of death. You're more than welcome to if you so desire...



Xeptu 22nd Jul 2021 23:36


Originally Posted by Gnadenburg (Post 11083412)
My survival template for Martian invasion should hold up for this scenario.

War of the Worlds 2019, two seasons, not a bad sci-fi show, keeps you engaged.

mattyj 22nd Jul 2021 23:56

Hey Foxster:


He also said getting children vaccinated was not a good option as they are at more risk of the vaccine than the virus. But what do we have nsw saying today, get the 12 plus year old kids vaccinated. How many 12 year olds have died worldwide of WuHu flu
From the CDC:

“331 minors under 18 have died with Covid out of 626,000 deaths overall, and 41 minors under 18 have died after receiving the Covid vaccine out of 6,000 deaths overall.”

Foxxster 23rd Jul 2021 00:12


Originally Posted by mattyj (Post 11083427)
Hey Foxster:



From the CDC:

“331 minors under 18 have died with Covid out of 626,000 deaths overall, and 41 minors under 18 have died after receiving the Covid vaccine out of 6,000 deaths overall.”

Kids, look at the 0 to 9 year old group. 12 year olds, I suspect most of those under 18 would be nearer 18. There are also complications associated with vaccines.

https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2...CFR-by-age.png

Interestingly, the age distribution of mortality by COVID-19 (the distribution of the proportion of deaths per age group among all deaths), is similar between Italy, Japan, and Spain, even though the number of deaths are quite different among them23,24,25 (Fig. 1). The reported number of deaths was 3 in 0–9 years old (yo), 0 in 10–19 yo, 11 in 20–29 yo, 58 in 30–39 yo, 257 in 40–49 yo, 1,051 in 50–59 yo, 3,107 in 60–69 yo, and 25,038 in 70 + yo in Italy as of May 13, 2020. In Japan, that was 0 in 0–9 yo, 0 in 10–19 yo, 0 in 20–29 yo, 2 in 30–39 yo, 8 in 40–49 yo, 16 in 50–59 yo, 44 in 60–69 yo, and 330 in over 70 + yo as of May 7, 2020. In Spain, that was 2 in age 0–9 yo, 5 in 10–19 yo, 23 in 20–29 yo, 61 in 30–39 yo, 198 in 40–49 yo, 607 in 50–59 yo, 1669 in 60–69 yo, and 16,253 in over 70 + yo as of May 12, 2020.

but I think I have misquoted him. Or got two separate interviews mixed. So ignore the children vaccine bit, apologies.

here is the link to the actual interview.

https://www.2gb.com/harvard-professo...-lockdown-now/


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