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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

compressor stall 6th Aug 2021 12:13


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11090583)
I think the confusion arises out of what we non medical people believed a vaccination "was" prior to Covid and I'll put my hand up, I was one of them.
I understood once I had been vaccinated I couldn't be infected, at least a very low chance of that happening. It turns out as it applies to Corona Virus's, that's not the case, all it's going to do is reduce the severity, who knew.

From the UK using up to date data....
"Although individuals may not develop symptoms of COVID-19 after vaccination, it is possible that they could still be infected with the virus and could transmit to others. Understanding how effective vaccines are at preventing infection is therefore important to predict the likely impact of the vaccination programme on the wider population. In order to estimate vaccine effectiveness against infection, repeat asymptomatic testing of a defined cohort of individuals is required. Studies have now reported on vaccine effectiveness against infection in healthcare workers, care home residents and the general population. With the Pfizer-BioNTech, estimates of effectiveness against infection range from around 55 to 70%, with the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine they range from around 60 to 70% (5, 13, 14, 15). With 2 of 2 doses of either vaccine effectiveness against infection is estimated at around 65 to 90% (5, 13)."
Latest UK Vaccination Summary Report

machtuk 6th Aug 2021 12:17

I would never have thought our society would end up ruined, divided fighting each other and on our knees like this! Oddly enuf not from wars, not from some Virus that 99% of people who get it recover from or even from an alien attack but from an evil force right under our noses, the silent killers the corrupt grubby Govt hell bent on destruction!
We are doomed for the foreseeable future!

turbantime 6th Aug 2021 12:42


Originally Posted by machtuk (Post 11090712)
I would never have thought our society would end up ruined, divided fighting each other and on our knees like this! Oddly enuf not from wars, not from some Virus that 99% of people who get it recover from or even from an alien attack but from an evil force right under our noses, the silent killers the corrupt grubby Govt hell bent on destruction!
We are doomed for the foreseeable future!

Survival does not equal recovery. It’s like saying you survived a car crash but you may never recover from the injuries sustained. Lots of info around long COVID. You’re about 12 months behind on the whole debate.

Transition Layer 6th Aug 2021 12:43


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11090638)
The consensus here in the West tonight, on all radio and TV news services seems to be, that unless Gladys does something fast and big, NSW will be locked out of WA until at least the end of the year.

Meanwhile, in the rest of Australia, no one gives a flying f*ck what the media in WA thinks!

Cloudee 6th Aug 2021 12:53


Originally Posted by machtuk (Post 11090712)
I would never have thought our society would end up ruined, divided fighting each other and on our knees like this! Oddly enuf not from wars, not from some Virus that 99% of people who get it recover from or even from an alien attack but from an evil force right under our noses, the silent killers the corrupt grubby Govt hell bent on destruction!
We are doomed for the foreseeable future!

So if half the population get covid, that's 13 million, only one percent will not recover. Thats ok then isn't it, only 130,000 deaths.

43Inches 6th Aug 2021 13:15


I would never have thought our society would end up ruined, divided fighting each other and on our knees like this! Oddly enuf not from wars, not from some Virus that 99% of people who get it recover from or even from an alien attack but from an evil force right under our noses, the silent killers the corrupt grubby Govt hell bent on destruction!
We are doomed for the foreseeable future!
Unfortunately the uneducated fools can't even do the math with Australia currently running at about 2.5% death rate. Which would boost that number to 325,000... but of course they don't give a dam about other people as long as it's not them. 932 deaths vs 36,000 cases equals about 2.6% death rate, to equate that to your daily life that's one 1 in 40 chance of dieing from it. Long covid being about 15% which means your taxes would have to foot long term medicare and disability payments for another 2 million possibly for the rest of their life span. And the possible loss of their productivity, adds up to some big economic downsides.

Also on the last point, WA has proven that with no virus they are doing pretty well economically with numbers all up on 2019. Compare that to the UK where GDP is still almost double figures in the red from 2019 figures.

SOPS 6th Aug 2021 13:33


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 11090731)
Meanwhile, in the rest of Australia, no one gives a flying f*ck what the media in WA thinks!

Perhaps WA does not care what the rest of Australia ( or should that be Sydney) thinks?
As this continues…

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...115e8339a1bac6

ruprecht 6th Aug 2021 13:36


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11090750)
to equate that to your daily life that's one 1 in 40 chance of dieing from it.

Depending on your age, of course…

Global Aviator 6th Aug 2021 17:44

The entire way Australia has dealt with this is an absolute joke to the world. Mind you that’s been said on here enough. A quick google and I can’t seem to find another first world nation that has screwed it up so badly.

It really seems to be pretty simple looking at the rest of the first world, vaccinations high, borders open. That’s international borders! Whilst Australia cannot even keep domestic borders open, what a joke.

Canada announces easing of travel from the 9th, USA is fairly free, UK, Europe. In Asia Singapore is working hard to open. All this time Australia goes backwards, industry is decimated and people seriously over it.

As we all know the biggest issue is zero unity in the country, zero leadership and a media that blows it all sideways.

Watch the rest of the world slowly get back to normal, I honestly even fear for domestic Christmas holidays in Straya!

Dannyboy39 6th Aug 2021 18:32


Originally Posted by Global Aviator (Post 11090845)
The entire way Australia has dealt with this is an absolute joke to the world. Mind you that’s been said on here enough. A quick google and I can’t seem to find another first world nation that has screwed it up so badly

Hang on, what happened to Australia being great and UK being bad?

compressor stall 6th Aug 2021 19:09

That changed in the second quarter of this year.

it is clear that up to March our response had been - through good geographic fortune and brutal border policies - successful and we enjoyed a standard of life and freedoms much of the rest of the world envied. The economy was recovering and we watched as the rest of the world had harder longer lockdowns, mass death and economic hits.

But by March steadily people in many of the worst hit western countries had rolled up their sleeves and got jabbed. Meanwhile we suffered from mixed messaging about what was safe, bungled orders became apparent, and fatally were told vaccination was not a race. And then came delta.

I would rather be in the UK now than here.

43Inches 6th Aug 2021 22:04


So Dr Fauci didnt fund the Wuhan lab? Bill Gates (now a medical expert) not pushing through his teeth for vaccinations? mRNA tech does not alter DNA (never been tested on humans before)? The Government and its puppets always tell you the truth? 1000's of Doctors/Scientist speaking out about the truth are all of a sudden 'conspiracy theorists' and silenced? Breakthrough cases are another conspiracy? Lockdowns are not against the WHO recommendations ? Vaccinations make you more contagious and they are not a vaccine because they dont stop you from getting the virus? You need a booster shot every Six months? I could go on and on...But if people dont wake up, these borders/lockdowns aren't going anywhere!!!!
Yes the population will never get anywhere if they keep regurgitating Sky News headlines and US Republican party crap that has been disproved and just makes you look stupid and uneducated over and over.


I would rather be in the UK now than here.
I really hope you are joking on that front, you'd have to be mildly insane to want to even visit the UK right now, things are pretty dire over there. I don't mean just the Covid issues, everything from crime to unemployment to well, yes, the risk of getting covid. The UK has the double wham of dealing with brexit and covid at the same time and things are not going well.


The entire way Australia has dealt with this is an absolute joke to the world.
When you state that you make a joke of yourself, no one outside of Australia is caring about how Australia handles it because most of them have been inundated with Covid and are more worried about fighting. I agree Scomo has handled this incredibly badly, but due to some state premier diligence and the lockdowns working we are one of the few Western nations with a positive GDP from 2019. There is one thing that is certain, the countries that have had large spread of covid in the community have had massive economic downturns as a result. France, Germany, USA all sit at -3% or worse than 2019 figures, UK is clawing back some losses at -8%. If the virus had not been mishandled by Sydney playing politics we'd be up 1-2% by now. China and India are positive, but they are major developing nations, so they just burn through peasants to go forward, but they are still way down on pre-2020 expansion rates.

compressor stall 6th Aug 2021 22:12


When you state that you make a joke of yourself, no one outside of Australia is caring about how Australia handles it because most of them have been inundated with Covid and are more worried about fighting.
What load of bollocks. I have spoken to plenty of people overseas who are interested and that has not really changed. But now they are interested in the "what the #$%$ happened to you guys?" sense. Australia's current situation and outbreak(s) is in the news regularly across three continents maybe more.


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11090962)
I really hope you are joking on that front, you'd have to be mildly insane to want to even visit the UK right now, things are pretty dire over there.

No I'm not joking. Maybe I am insane as I was in the UK just 10 days ago.

43Inches 6th Aug 2021 22:19


Its people like yourself that get all worked up over such division on a topic.

I was never going to get involved in this forum debate because I watch most of you just abusing each other and throwing emotions around!

I just felt like I needed too state what I had too. Whether you agree with it or not, I said what I had to say!
Not worked up at all, I'm quite happy sitting with nothing much to do but debate Covid misinformation, one of the side products of lockdown. I figure the longer people perpetuate moronic ideas that disuade people from just getting out and getting vaccinated we will stay in lockdown even longer.

Your statement of things have all been covered in this thread, probably numerous times and are well debunked by science and critical research.

So yes I have reached the stage where I just say it's stupid to just regurgitate it over and over.

43Inches 6th Aug 2021 22:35


So, does the Vaccine provide Immunity?
Yes.

Immunity in medical terms is not complete protection from the virus, it just means your body has the ability to fight the virus.

Almost all the current vaccines have been proven to reduce severity of symptoms of Covid by a factor of 90% reducing the death rate significantly among affected.

Due to the high replication rate of the virus, especially delta strain, live virus can still be shed and yes a person may still have active infection along with being infectious to others.

43Inches 6th Aug 2021 22:53


Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.
That is a dumbed down wording of immunity. Protection does not mean, does not get, in actuality you must be infected first for your immune system to respond to the threat and deal with it.

If it was to say provides "complete" protection then you might consider that as the immunity you are searching for. Terms like you "can" be exposed and not get infected is a way of saying in most cases yes you wont notice you were exposed to a virus. Goverment agencies use wording like that to ensure people don't pick at the edges. Same way your antibacterial wipes say they protect vs 99.9% of bacteria. You will always get sick from the .1% if you challenge it in court.


Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease.
If the vaccine removes 90% of severe symptoms vs a non vaccinated I would say it offers protection from that disease, just not "complete" protection.

compressor stall 6th Aug 2021 22:54


Originally Posted by Blackout (Post 11090981)
Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.
Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease.
Is it a Vaccine then?

Nice play of semantics, but from your own link - Immunization: A process by which a person becomes protected against a disease through vaccination. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation.

You'd also better tell the Federal Gov health department to change their wording

Xeptu 6th Aug 2021 23:08

This was my point a way back, should we really be calling it a vaccine. In our aviation world we do all we can to remove ambiguity, for example we don't use runway 13 and 31, vertical distance in feet, horizontal distance in metres.

Most of us pre Covid understood a vaccine meant immunity, I can't be infected. Whilst that may be the case for some vaccines it isn't for corona viruses.

Transition Layer 6th Aug 2021 23:10


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11090760)
Perhaps WA does not care what the rest of Australia ( or should that be Sydney) thinks?
As this continues…

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...115e8339a1bac6

So why does WA carry on with countless news articles about the rest of Australia and the COVID situation?

My only hope is that the bad news from NSW/VIC spurs the WA population into vaccination because something needs to be done about that. The hermit nation has created a lacklustre approach to the jab and a general feeling that “it can’t happen here”. It can, and it will.

43Inches 6th Aug 2021 23:12


for example we don't use runway 13 and 31
You might want to check with Moorabbin on that one.


Most of us pre Covid understood a vaccine meant immunity, I can't be infected. Whilst that may be the case for some vaccines it isn't for corona viruses.
I think this all was evident around the Flu vaccine and the constant reminder it was there to reduce symptoms not prevent it.


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