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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

SHVC 6th Aug 2021 07:39


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 11090545)
The PM about to speak again after another cabinet meeting. I don't wreken will will see 70% never mind 80% vaxed, just maybe, they discussed lowering these
numbers. Just guessing as we need to reach something tangible. You get this feeling that the exit strategy will change on a week to week basis.

Dam he just spoke still 70%. Still a long long way to freedom.

Yes another pointless meaningless national cabinet that is yet to achieve anything. One thing I agree with 80% will not be reached anytime soon to save a lot of Australians from financial ruin in many industry. However if our fearless leader Gladys has proven with her half assed lockdown the bloody vaccine works and seems to work well. The nay sayers can argue all they want the last 3 weeks have proved it. Glad Iím fully vaxed to be honest

Tucknroll 6th Aug 2021 07:48


Originally Posted by mattyj (Post 11090137)
Lockdowns havenít had any measurable benefit anywhere they were tried..masks neither..why donít you try doing something else..something that works

Opinion stated as fact. Of course lockdowns work to slow the spread of disease.

MickG0105 6th Aug 2021 07:49


Originally Posted by compressor stall (Post 11090561)
I wasn't supporting its rigour or methodology (I'll let the established process take care of that) rather I was just pointing out that even if does pass, its conclusions are not paradigm shifting, and hardly anything to base an alternative narrative on.

Fair enough. Sadly, regardless of where that study lands you'll have some touting the no difference in viral load malarkey as proof that vaccines don't work.

Xeptu 6th Aug 2021 08:23


Originally Posted by MickG0105 (Post 11090569)
Fair enough. Sadly, regardless of where that study lands you'll have some touting the no difference in viral load malarkey as proof that vaccines don't work.

I think the confusion arises out of what we non medical people believed a vaccination "was" prior to Covid and I'll put my hand up, I was one of them.
I understood once I had been vaccinated I couldn't be infected, at least a very low chance of that happening. It turns out as it applies to Corona Virus's, that's not the case, all it's going to do is reduce the severity, who knew.

As I read through previous posts here, there is still some that are of that same understanding. On that basis when someone says it doesn't work are they technically correct, just misguided by what it does.

Xeptu 6th Aug 2021 08:52

Two Billion Dollars a week the lockdowns are costing, surely that would have justified a dedicated quarantine facility outside of our Capital Cities in each State, similar to Howard Springs.

mattyj 6th Aug 2021 09:08


Of course lockdowns work to slow the spread of disease.
opinion stated as fact

Turnleft080 6th Aug 2021 09:39


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11090568)
Opinion stated as fact. Of course lockdowns work to slow the spread of disease.

You forgot to add, they prolong them forever.

PoppaJo 6th Aug 2021 09:47

Will be interesting to see how she tries to respond tomorrow to the statements made from the CHO in Canberra this evening. Normally the stock
standard ĎWe follow the medical adviceí...Errrrr the big boss is calling for a circuit breaker Gladys...isnít that not following the advice?

She did say cases will continue to deteriorate tomorrow, and as she had 18 hours of data already at todayís presser, seems like we are into the 300s now.

mattyj 6th Aug 2021 10:12

Dry timber

SOPS 6th Aug 2021 10:15

The consensus here in the West tonight, on all radio and TV news services seems to be, that unless Gladys does something fast and big, NSW will be locked out of WA until at least the end of the year.

AerialPerspective 6th Aug 2021 10:25


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11090583)
I think the confusion arises out of what we non medical people believed a vaccination "was" prior to Covid and I'll put my hand up, I was one of them.
I understood once I had been vaccinated I couldn't be infected, at least a very low chance of that happening. It turns out as it applies to Corona Virus's, that's not the case, all it's going to do is reduce the severity, who knew.

As I read through previous posts here, there is still some that are of that same understanding. On that basis when someone says it doesn't work are they technically correct, just misguided by what it does.

Isn't the relative threat of infection following full vaccination a factor of the individual vaccine efficacy?? I've had the first AZ and decided to wait the whole 12 weeks to get the second one as it apparently pushes the efficacy to near 100% (certainly in the 90s, as opposed to the 70s I believe when 1 and 2 are 4 weeks apart).

I'm happy to be corrected as I am not a Doctor but that would suggest to me on logic that at 90%+ the chance of getting infected or getting infected and having ANY symptoms is pretty slim, whereas lower efficacy might mean infection and slight symptoms.

I watch Bill Maher's Real Time occasionally and a month or two ago he was tested for Covid and tested positive although he had been fully vaccinated (not sure which one or the time between the doses, but since he's in the US, I'd guess Moderna, Pfizer or J&J) and according to his Press Release, while the virus was present in his system, he had absolutely zero symptoms.

KRviator 6th Aug 2021 10:26


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11090638)
The consensus here in the West tonight, on all radio and TV news services seems to be, that unless Gladys does something fast and big, NSW will be locked out of WA until at least the end of the year.

It's going to take WA that long to get your vaccination rates above the mythical 70/80% for Phase B?

Turnleft080 6th Aug 2021 10:32


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11090638)
The consensus here in the West tonight, on all radio and TV news services seems to be, that unless Gladys does something fast and big, NSW will be locked out of WA until at least the end of the year.

Phew. You scared the absolute crap out of me Sops, I thought you were going to say this time next year.

Xeptu 6th Aug 2021 10:40


Originally Posted by AerialPerspective (Post 11090647)
Isn't the relative threat of infection following full vaccination a factor of the individual vaccine efficacy?? I've had the first AZ and decided to wait the whole 12 weeks to get the second one as it apparently pushes the efficacy to near 100% (certainly in the 90s, as opposed to the 70s I believe when 1 and 2 are 4 weeks apart).

I'm happy to be corrected as I am not a Doctor but that would suggest to me on logic that at 90%+ the chance of getting infected or getting infected and having ANY symptoms is pretty slim, whereas lower efficacy might mean infection and slight symptoms.

I watch Bill Maher's Real Time occasionally and a month or two ago he was tested for Covid and tested positive although he had been fully vaccinated (not sure which one or the time between the doses, but since he's in the US, I'd guess Moderna, Pfizer or J&J) and according to his Press Release, while the virus was present in his system, he had absolutely zero symptoms.

Yes!, that's exactly the way I understand it works "today" we'll still become infected, we'll still be contagious albeit to a lesser degree, we just may not know it (assymptomatic). That still doesn't address any long term implications that infection may cause.

Reiterating prior to Covid, most thought as I did, vaccination prevents infection, which isn't the case for Corona Viruses. Sorta makes sense otherwise we should have eliminated the flu by now.

SOPS 6th Aug 2021 10:42


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11090648)
It's going to take WA that long to get your vaccination rates above the mythical 70/80% for Phase B?

I think it was because of this statement from the Golden Girl who Does It Differently.


https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cor...down-c-3607977

Tucknroll 6th Aug 2021 10:57


Originally Posted by mattyj (Post 11090605)
opinion stated as fact

No, I think youíll find it is fact stated as fact:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3616969

Are you seriously suggesting that lockdowns do not reduce the spread of a virus within a community?

KRviator 6th Aug 2021 11:02


Originally Posted by SOPS
I think it was because of this statement from the Golden Girl who Does It Differently.
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cor...down-c-3607977

And if the mindset behind publishing that article is to be understood, it shows WA likely has no intention of honouring the so-called "fully agreed" National Cabinet Phase B. Th goal of which is to

Originally Posted by Our Fearless Leader
This phase seeks to minimise serious illness, hospitalisation and fatalities from COVID-19 and measures will include:
  • Restrictions easing on vaccinated residents, which could include lockdowns and border controls
  • Lockdowns only in "extreme circumstances" to prevent escalating hospitalisation and fatality
  • Restore inbound passenger caps at previous levels for unvaccinated returning travellers and larger caps for vaccinated returning travellers
  • Allow capped entry of student and economic visa holders subject to quarantine arrangements being available
  • Introduce new reduced quarantine arrangements for vaccinated residents
  • The possible introductions of a COVID vaccine booster programme

    That leaves vaccination, however, if/when NSW makes the target and still has cases, then what? I'll stake a carton of beer that irrespective of the actual vaccination %-age above target, case numbers or hospitalizations, the borders won't reopen so long as there is community transmission in NSW.

    Xeptu 6th Aug 2021 11:10

    Restrictions easing on vaccinated residents, which could include.....

    That would be all of them would it not.

    dr dre 6th Aug 2021 11:23


    Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11090676)
    And if the mindset behind publishing that article is to be understood, it shows WA likely has no intention of honouring the so-called "fully agreed" National Cabinet Phase B.

    Actually no, the National Roadmap does include lockdowns in Phase B, and also in Phase C for specific locations in extreme circumstances. Thereís no conflict between what the Federal government and the WA government have said regarding the roadmap.

    MickG0105 6th Aug 2021 11:39


    Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11090583)
    I think the confusion arises out of what we non medical people believed a vaccination "was" prior to Covid and I'll put my hand up, I was one of them.
    I understood once I had been vaccinated I couldn't be infected, at least a very low chance of that happening. It turns out as it applies to Corona Virus's, that's not the case, all it's going to do is reduce the severity, who knew.

    As I read through previous posts here, there is still some that are of that same understanding. On that basis when someone says it doesn't work are they technically correct, just misguided by what it does.

    Yes, for sure, I think that if you're of a certain age you might remember getting the oral polio vaccination and the tuberculosis BCG vaccination as a kid and associating that with essentially zero cases of either. Or if you've got kids of your own, associating the MMR or MMRV vaccines with essentially zero cases of any of measles, mumps, rubella or chicken pox (Varicella).

    One of the big differences, of course, is that none of those vaccines or our experience of them was during a pandemic, where the targeted disease was prevalent.

    Interestingly or otherwise, one of the hitherto most commonly received vaccinations is for seasonal flu. The purpose of that vaccine is not to stop infection, it is to stop an infection manifesting as a serious illness. People would sometimes get crook from an influenza infection after being vaccinated against the seasonal flu but would not be perturbed because the vaccine prevented the serious illness that is properly associated with the flu. Most people would shrug the mild presentation off as a cold. And no one got bent out of shape about it because there was no associated flu test to demonstrate that despite being vaccinated against the flu you were in fact infected by it.

    That's why understanding the efficacy end point is important. What you want from a vaccine is for it to condition your immune system such that when you are infected you don't become seriously ill, don't need to be hospitalised, don't need to be admitted to ICU and don't subsequently die. Ideally it should also reduce your ability to transmit the disease if you do become infected but frankly if the vaccine is efficacious at preventing serious illness AND you have a good uptake of the vaccine in the population, forward transmission isn't as much of a concern.

    And what we are seeing in the data out of places like Israel is that the vaccines are reducing hospitalisations, ICU admissions and deaths by an order of magnitude (that is, by around 90 percent).


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