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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

WingNut60 24th Apr 2021 05:25

Every time that there is a release from a quarantine hotel, it seems that there are big gaps in the explanations given.
When specifics are omitted you can't hep but wonder whether it isn't deliberate obfuscation.

For instance, this person entered Australia from Shanghai and after release from quarantine visited the UWA campus on several occasions before departing for Melbourne.
No other details were given which lead to a rumour circulating around that he was neither an Australian citizen nor resident.
The question of whether that is true or not could have been countered by simply including in the press releases that he was a "returning Australian resident", but it wasn't.
Why not?

Similarly, it has been announced that of the other 24 people on the same floor as the infected person, five have already left the country.
What the heck is that about? People are now flying into Australia to spend a little relaxation time in quarantine and then flying out again?

C'mon people, we don't want or need to start a racial backlash, but a few more details might make the explanation a lot easier to swallow.
Or not.


dr dre 24th Apr 2021 05:55


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11033192)
Every time that there is a release from a quarantine hotel, it seems that there are big gaps in the explanations given.
When specifics are omitted you can't hep but wonder whether it isn't deliberate obfuscation.

For instance, this person entered Australia from Shanghai and after release from quarantine visited the UWA campus on several occasions before departing for Melbourne.
No other details were given which lead to a rumour circulating around that he was neither an Australian citizen nor resident.
The question of whether that is true or not could have been countered by simply including in the press releases that he was a "returning Australian resident", but it wasn't.
Why not?

Similarly, it has been announced that of the other 24 people on the same floor as the infected person, five have already left the country.
What the heck is that about? People are now flying into Australia to spend a little relaxation time in quarantine and then flying out again?

C'mon people, we don't want or need to start a racial backlash, but a few more details might make the explanation a lot easier to swallow.
Or not.

Does his origin, ethnicity or purpose for being here have add any tangible substance to this issue? He legally entered the country (hard to do at the moment without jumping through a lot of hoops), completed 14 days in quarantine and then upon developing symptoms several days later seems to have isolated himself immediately. He did the right thing, far more so than a lot of Australian born citizens have when it comes to complying with the rules associated with this pandemic.

The matter is we're still getting outbreaks from hotels in major capital cities over a year into this outbreak when they were only going to be a temporary solution. As international quarantine looks to continue for at least 12 months it's time for all quarantine to be in facilities like Howard Springs.


Icarus2001 24th Apr 2021 06:02


Does his origin, ethnicity or purpose for being here have add any tangible substance to this issue?
Yes, insofar as the seats to Australia are limited, there is a strong argument as SOPS alluded to, for restricting entry to Australian residents or citizens only.
Every “tourist” visitor takes a seat that could have been used by a citizen or resident trying to get home.

StudentInDebt 24th Apr 2021 06:14


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11033192)
For instance, this person entered Australia from Shanghai and after release from quarantine visited the UWA campus on several occasions before departing for Melbourne.
No other details were given which lead to a rumour circulating around that he was neither an Australian citizen nor resident.
The question of whether that is true or not could have been countered by simply including in the press releases that he was a "returning Australian resident", but it wasn't.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-...otel/100092718

He went straight to his home in Melbourne's eastern suburbs, then moved to Victoria's hotel quarantine system at his request and later tested positive on Friday morning.

Mr Weimar said he wanted to thank the Burwood man for being proactive after being told he was a close contact.

"He immediately started wearing a mask, he distanced himself, his wife came and picked him up from the airport, he isolated at home, the family stayed within their house," he said.
Strongly suggests that he is a citizen or permanent resident.

Similarly, it has been announced that of the other 24 people on the same floor as the infected person, five have already left the country.
What the heck is that about? People are now flying into Australia to spend a little relaxation time in quarantine and then flying out again?
Or they arrive as maritime crew at a WA port, are flown to Perth by closed charter and remain in quarantine until their international flight to their home country? https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/-/media...-Transfers.pdf

WingNut60 24th Apr 2021 06:29


Originally Posted by StudentInDebt (Post 11033211)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-...otel/100092718

Strongly suggests that he is a citizen or permanent resident.
Or they arrive as maritime crew at a WA port, are flown to Perth by closed charter and remain in quarantine until their international flight to their home country? https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/-/media...-Transfers.pdf

All good and (hopefully) valid replies.
But none of that information was given initially and some of it not at all.

So my question remains, why do I need to ask you for the answer.




StudentInDebt 24th Apr 2021 06:43


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11033219)
All good and (hopefully) valid replies.
But none of that information was given initially and some of it not at all.

So my question remains, why do I need to ask you for the answer.

I read the information about him returning to his home yesterday afternoon, I canít speak for why you were unaware of it but perhaps you werenít looking for it? The situation with maritime crew has been the case since January, again if youíre not looking for something then you probably wonít see it. There is also confirmation bias to consider.

WingNut60 24th Apr 2021 06:48


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11033198)
He legally entered the country..............

That only came out later.
It is not something that I would have assumed.


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11033198)
He legally entered the country.......... (hard to do at the moment without jumping through a lot of hoops)

Again, not something that I would have assumed.
And even if legal, is it always reasonable? The exemptions have never been explained to the point that I would have your level of faith in them.

As for the inadequacy of the quarantine hotel system, I couldn't agree more.

From Mark McGowan's mid-day press release, he stated that >40,000 returning citizens or residents have now been processed through the Perth quarantine hotel system.
So you could infer that, on a per capita basis, maybe 400,000 have now been processed in total - all states.
Round figures, 20,000 in quarantine at any one time.
Yes, some may have been maritime crew or aircrew but surely the flow must start to dwindle some time soon.
Or perhaps the government could give us an estimate of how many citizens / residents are still leaving the country with an expectation of short-term return.



WingNut60 24th Apr 2021 06:58


Originally Posted by StudentInDebt (Post 11033227)
I read the information about him returning to his home yesterday afternoon, I can’t speak for why you were unaware of it but perhaps you weren’t looking for it?

Or perhaps I was; along with a lot of other people.
By the way, Friday afternoon was more than 12 hours following the first release which was the one that inspired the "tourist" rumours.


Originally Posted by StudentInDebt (Post 11033227)
The situation with maritime crew has been the case since January, again if you’re not looking for something then you probably won’t see it. There is also confirmation bias to consider.

No confirmation bias involved. I still have no idea who they were or why they were kept in quarantine or why they left immediately thereafter.
But then, nor do you. Unless you can point me at some source that confirms your assumption.
McGowan's address was the first that I had heard of the five departees and he gave no explanation.

And that's my entire point. Half-arsed explanations.

dr dre 24th Apr 2021 07:10


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11033203)
Yes, insofar as the seats to Australia are limited, there is a strong argument as SOPS alluded to, for restricting entry to Australian residents or citizens only.
Every “tourist” visitor takes a seat that could have been used by a citizen or resident trying to get home.

https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/travel-restrictions

There aren't any tourists allowed.

From the fact his wife picked him up from the airport in Melbourne it's clear he lives in Australia and is a permanent resident or citizen.

So again, why is his ethnicity and point of departure now suddenly an issue?


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11033219)
All good and (hopefully) valid replies.
But none of that information was given initially and some of it not at all.

So my question remains, why do I need to ask you for the answer.

I'm not sure why as I found out all that information from a quick internet search. Sometimes the correct info is out there if you look for it

Icarus2001 24th Apr 2021 07:47


There aren't any tourists allowed
Read the list on your link again.

I know there are "tourists" arriving as I have met a couple.

WingNut60 24th Apr 2021 08:17


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11033240)
https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/travel-restrictions

There aren't any tourists allowed.

From the fact his wife picked him up from the airport in Melbourne it's clear he lives in Australia and is a permanent resident or citizen.

So again, why is his ethnicity and point of departure now suddenly an issue?



I'm not sure why as I found out all that information from a quick internet search. Sometimes the correct info is out there if you look for it

I didn't mention ethnicity and do not think that it should be a factor at all.

But citizenship and / or residential status are definitely factors.
If it doesn't pique your curiosity that there appears to be non-resident / non-citizens entering Australia without any explanation from our government then you're a very easily pleased person.


jrfsp 24th Apr 2021 10:47

So the guy that came back from India left Australia and went over for wedding - was granted an exemption from the fed gov. Why on earth are we giving exemptions for attending weddings, hardly necessary

Keg 24th Apr 2021 11:13


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11033198)

As international quarantine looks to continue for at least 12 months it's time for all quarantine to be in facilities like Howard Springs.

And where in NSW are we building this town capable of housing 6,000+ in a Covid safe manner? Then there is the workers required each day. Obviously they need to get in/ out. Probably another couple of thousand there too.

dr dre 24th Apr 2021 11:53


Originally Posted by Keg (Post 11033378)
And where in NSW are we building this town capable of housing 6,000+ in a Covid safe manner? Then there is the workers required each day. Obviously they need to get in/ out. Probably another couple of thousand there too.

There's about 12,000 spaces in quarantine needed at any one time. Howard Springs can take care of 1/6th of that number. The rest would have to be temporary, military bases, mining camps, detention facilities, dongers on the outskirts of cities etc. Doesn't necessarily need to be proportioned by state as it would be a Federal Government responsibility. Would it cost money? Yes, but if we get more outbreaks especially coming into this winter it'll cost more.

Experts have been calling for an end to hotel quarantine since last year. Probably too late for more purpose built facilities before winter.

I just fear that with the bungled vaccine rollout the time taken to herd immunity and an end to the disruptions has increased, so better take better care of returnees in the meantime.

Keg 24th Apr 2021 12:19

I’m not sure that Howard Springs is capable yet of 2,000. I thought they were upgrading it so it could cope with 1500- just 750 people per week.

I’m all for quarantining people in a Covid safe way but many solutions such as the ‘build it and they will come’ solution introduce a number of extra touch points where Covid can ‘leak’ out.

Global Aviator 24th Apr 2021 21:44


Originally Posted by Keg (Post 11033405)
Iím not sure that Howard Springs is capable yet of 2,000. I thought they were upgrading it so it could cope with 1500- just 750 people per week.

Iím all for quarantining people in a Covid safe way but many solutions such as the Ďbuild it and they will comeí solution introduce a number of extra touch points where Covid can Ďleakí out.

Howard Springs is or was a facility for 3000+ for Inpex. Quarantine it started at 500/750/1500? Surely itís at 2000 already? Ramp it up to capacity. The cyclone season is over, thatís why the CM said it wasnít being fully utilised.

There is another facility not far away Wickam Point? Itís where the marines quarantined, not sure how many 500? Whoops the marines are still coming so itís not available.

Point is, I am sure with a bit of digging there are facilities close to suitable that wouldnít take much. Then it is all about the man power and staff.



CFD 24th Apr 2021 22:55

One of the problems we have at Howard Springs is they required an additional 400 staff to ramp it up to capacity. As of last week I heard they had recruited only 70. Additionally there is a shortage again of rental housing in Darwin, rents have strongly increased - how many people would want to relocate to Darwin for a 12 month contract - I would think most appropriately qualified medical staff would be happily employed where they are at the moment. I think it will be some time yet before they are operating to capacity. An additional point.... we are getting quite a few positive cases from India. Last week the Deputy CMO was warning that our local system could easily be swamped if the hospital is required... We have only 18 intensive care beds in Darwin so it wouldnt take much to make it a major issue for the Northern Territory.

Global Aviator 25th Apr 2021 00:50


Originally Posted by CFD (Post 11033583)
One of the problems we have at Howard Springs is they required an additional 400 staff to ramp it up to capacity. As of last week I heard they had recruited only 70. Additionally there is a shortage again of rental housing in Darwin, rents have strongly increased - how many people would want to relocate to Darwin for a 12 month contract - I would think most appropriately qualified medical staff would be happily employed where they are at the moment. I think it will be some time yet before they are operating to capacity. An additional point.... we are getting quite a few positive cases from India. Last week the Deputy CMO was warning that our local system could easily be swamped if the hospital is required... We have only 18 intensive care beds in Darwin so it wouldnt take much to make it a major issue for the Northern Territory.

Pausing repat flights from India fixes that issue.

SOPS 25th Apr 2021 03:08

The couple that started the latest outbreak in Perth, had been given permission to go to India for a wedding!!! WTF??? People in Australia have had to cancel weddings. This has to stop. If you want to leave fine. But if you are going to go to a high risk area.. donít expect to come back soon.

WingNut60 25th Apr 2021 03:34


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11033621)
....... But if you are going to go to a high risk area.. donít expect to come back soon.

I agree. But wouldn't a "high risk area" be anywhere with a current infection rate that is higher than Australia's?
That wouldn't leave a lot of acceptable destinations.


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