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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

DROPS 29th Jun 2021 06:49

It's the Vaccine stupid...
 
It's the Vaccine stupid...

Even the US eventually got this bit right.

turbantime 29th Jun 2021 07:15

Foxxster - It’s the Medicare app on your phone. You can save the digital certificate offline within the app. The digital certificate also has holographic features which makes it extremely difficult to forge.
No different to the NSW digital driver’s licence.

Foxxster 29th Jun 2021 07:19


Originally Posted by turbantime (Post 11070143)
Foxxster - It’s the Medicare app on your phone. You can save the digital certificate offline within the app. The digital certificate also has holographic features which makes it extremely difficult to forge.
No different to the NSW digital driver’s licence.

I have the app.

please tell me how you propose to enforce this. And the answer is NOT just the same as drivers licences. That’s a hint for you.

Fuel-Off 29th Jun 2021 07:23


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11070130)
bully for you,

is that mandatory. It would have to be.. or to carry a physical form of proof of vaccine.

and how are you going to police it without stopping everyone on the street. Papers please…..logistically impossible.

Europe does it with passport on the phone mostly when checking in on flights, on intercity trains, international ferries and crossing land borders. Some venues with large gatherings have a set up with scanners at the ready at the entrance. Just a smartphone app, produces a QR code so it can be verified and you're on your way The US have a pretty flimsy system of just producing a card from the CDC, but several states (both red and blue) have removed ALL pandemic related policies and are effectively back to normal. Hence why we are seeing a post pandemic boom in travel. Might have something to do with the fact almost 70% have had one dose. US-EU travel this northern summer will be unrestricted, no quarantine either side. I mean, if the Americans can do it...

The UK, while it doesn't have a vaccine passport per se and BoJo is pretty reluctant to implement that type of policy is moving along with his 'irreversible' path out of the pandemic. They've actually set out a target for the threshold the government is willing to accept in the amount of vaccinations that will get the UK out of pandemic control and on with the rest of the world - all while 18,000 cases a day but with minimal hospitalisations. Because treatments are a whole lot better, vaccinations aside.

But alas, Australians know how to do it better. A clear concise message of getting vaccinated but you're still subjected to lockdowns and travel restrictions and can't travel abroad to safe countries and upon returning (if you can get a seat because numbers are still capped) you're still required to quarantine at your expense. A message of changing who is eligible to get the vaccine but change the goal posts every five minutes. A message of you can wait, we've got time, but we want you to get vaccinated as soon as you're eligible (as long as you meet the recently changed eligibility criteria). Most of the developed world have ordered at least 4 or 5 different types of vaccine per country back in July. Australia ordered 2 types in November - but don't forget, according to SloMo, we're ahead of the queue. But the main message that all politicians in Australia would have you believe is that 'there is nowhere else I'd rather be during a pandemic but Australia!'. Really? The 12 or so million people currently in lockdown at the moment might take on a different view to that. You know you've screwed up as a Liberal PM when even Sky News journos are openly bagging and questioning your policies and lack of direction. Maybe he should go back to marketing school.

But we've had little cases! Some here would bellow, to profess a type of arrogant superiority over all others. That was last year's battle. Casualties and the associated fallout was minimal which was terrific and highly commendable. That battle was won, but as the war continues, new fronts with slightly different enemies are approaching from all sides and like any adversary looks for chinks in the armor. This year's battle is different, but we have a highly effective weapon to our advantage, but our generals didn't order enough ammunition.

Our generals prefer to hide under the doona instead.

Fuel-Off :ok:

Foxxster 29th Jun 2021 07:26


Originally Posted by Fuel-Off (Post 11070149)
Europe does it with passport on the phone mostly when checking in on flights, on intercity trains, international ferries and crossing land borders. Some venues with large gatherings have a set up with scanners at the ready at the entrance. Just a smartphone app, produces a QR code so it can be verified and you're on your way The US have a pretty flimsy system of just producing a card from the CDC, but several states (both red and blue) have removed ALL pandemic related policies and are effectively back to normal. Hence why we are seeing a post pandemic boom in travel. Might have something to do with the fact almost 70% have had one dose. US-EU travel this northern summer will be unrestricted, no quarantine either side. I mean, if the Americans can do it...

The UK, while it doesn't have a vaccine passport per se and BoJo is pretty reluctant to implement that type of policy is moving along with his 'irreversible' path out of the pandemic. They've actually set out a target for the threshold the government is willing to accept in the amount of vaccinations that will get the UK out of pandemic control and on with the rest of the world - all while 18,000 cases a day but with minimal hospitalisations. Because treatments are a whole lot better, vaccinations aside.

But alas, Australians know how to do it better. A clear concise message of getting vaccinated but you're still subjected to lockdowns and travel restrictions and can't travel abroad to safe countries and upon returning (if you can get a seat because numbers are still capped) you're still required to quarantine at your expense. A message of changing who is eligible to get the vaccine but change the goal posts every five minutes. A message of you can wait, we've got time, but we want you to get vaccinated as soon as you're eligible (as long as you meet the recently changed eligibility criteria). Most of the developed world have ordered at least 4 or 5 different types of vaccine per country back in July. Australia ordered 2 types in November - but don't forget, according to SloMo, we're ahead of the queue. But the main message that all politicians in Australia would have you believe is that 'there is nowhere else I'd rather be during a pandemic but Australia!'. Really? The 12 or so million people currently in lockdown at the moment might take on a different view to that. You know you've screwed up as a Liberal PM when even Sky News journos are openly bagging and questioning your policies and lack of direction. Maybe he should go back to marketing school.

But we've had little cases! Some here would bellow, to profess a type of arrogant superiority over all others. That was last year's battle. Casualties and the associated fallout was minimal which was terrific and highly commendable, but as the war continues, new fronts with slightly different enemies are approaching from all sides and like any adversary looks for chinks in the armor. This year's battle is different, but we have a highly effective weapon to our advantage, but our generals didn't order enough ammunition.

Our generals prefer to hide under the doona instead.

Fuel-Off :ok:


WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NOW IN AUSTRALIA WITH EXTREMELY LOW,VACCINATION RATES.

now how are you going to police it..on the street. NOT getting on a plane or entering an entertainment venue.


Chronic Snoozer 29th Jun 2021 07:27


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11070130)
bully for you,

is that mandatory. It would have to be.. or to carry a physical form of proof of vaccine.

and how are you going to police it without stopping everyone on the street. Papers please…..logistically impossible.

Do your own legwork instead of sprouting off on here.

Torukmacto 29th Jun 2021 07:28

Watch Scomo tonight , his smile will be just a bit bigger . Australians have moved a few more inches to mass vaccinations today .

Foxxster 29th Jun 2021 07:29


Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer (Post 11070153)
Do your own legwork instead of sprouting off on here.

thanks for admitting it is impossible to police and a bloody stupid idea.

the original post being if you are vaccinated then you do not have to obey lockdowns. The numbers of police required to adequately enforce and check that people moving about are fully vaccinated would require doubling the police force and stopping EVERYONE on the street.

we don’t have 50%, 60% + vaccinated here so our population is still very vulnerable.. any measures taken in countries where they do have those vaccinated rates therefore are irrelevant.


there are some real …… on here. Grow a brain

jrfsp 29th Jun 2021 07:32


Originally Posted by Fuel-Off (Post 11070149)
Europe does it with passport on the phone mostly when checking in on flights, on intercity trains, international ferries and crossing land borders. Some venues with large gatherings have a set up with scanners at the ready at the entrance. Just a smartphone app, produces a QR code so it can be verified and you're on your way The US have a pretty flimsy system of just producing a card from the CDC, but several states (both red and blue) have removed ALL pandemic related policies and are effectively back to normal. Hence why we are seeing a post pandemic boom in travel. Might have something to do with the fact almost 70% have had one dose. US-EU travel this northern summer will be unrestricted, no quarantine either side. I mean, if the Americans can do it...

The UK, while it doesn't have a vaccine passport per se and BoJo is pretty reluctant to implement that type of policy is moving along with his 'irreversible' path out of the pandemic. They've actually set out a target for the threshold the government is willing to accept in the amount of vaccinations that will get the UK out of pandemic control and on with the rest of the world - all while 18,000 cases a day but with minimal hospitalisations. Because treatments are a whole lot better, vaccinations aside.

But alas, Australians know how to do it better. A clear concise message of getting vaccinated but you're still subjected to lockdowns and travel restrictions and can't travel abroad to safe countries and upon returning (if you can get a seat because numbers are still capped) you're still required to quarantine at your expense. A message of changing who is eligible to get the vaccine but change the goal posts every five minutes. A message of you can wait, we've got time, but we want you to get vaccinated as soon as you're eligible (as long as you meet the recently changed eligibility criteria). Most of the developed world have ordered at least 4 or 5 different types of vaccine per country back in July. Australia ordered 2 types in November - but don't forget, according to SloMo, we're ahead of the queue. But the main message that all politicians in Australia would have you believe is that 'there is nowhere else I'd rather be during a pandemic but Australia!'. Really? The 12 or so million people currently in lockdown at the moment might take on a different view to that. You know you've screwed up as a Liberal PM when even Sky News journos are openly bagging and questioning your policies and lack of direction. Maybe he should go back to marketing school.

But we've had little cases! Some here would bellow, to profess a type of arrogant superiority over all others. That was last year's battle. Casualties and the associated fallout was minimal which was terrific and highly commendable. That battle was won, but as the war continues, new fronts with slightly different enemies are approaching from all sides and like any adversary looks for chinks in the armor. This year's battle is different, but we have a highly effective weapon to our advantage, but our generals didn't order enough ammunition.

Our generals prefer to hide under the doona instead.

Fuel-Off :ok:

The uk is actually seeing 200 hospitalisations PER DAY and is starting to increase. What happens when the hospitals reach capacity? More restrictions?

Israel (highest % vaccination rate in the world) has re-imposed restrictions with face masks and quarantining people who have the delta variant.

Anti Skid On 29th Jun 2021 08:37


Originally Posted by John Eacott (Post 11070003)
There's a significant difference in vaccinations given and being fully vaccinated: being at the end of the supply chain and initially limited to mainly AZ jabs with a 12 week gap between the two, we stood little chance of matching countries who (understandably) kept the production for themselves. I'm among a significant number who will be getting their 12 week booster this weekend, and I suspect that the fully vaccinated figures will then boost noticeably.

Apathy and outright agitation against vaccination doesn't help: I can't help but remember everyone (yes, everyone) getting vaccinated against polio, the scourge which has virtually disappeared.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....094b1ff817.jpg

https://www.health.gov.au/initiative...accine-rollout

People forget that polio was a killer and is virtually gone (and smallpox too)

Re. NZ we went for Pfizer but also had the ability to source AZ; I believe we gave out AZ to Fiji, and NZ has also vaccinated the Cook Islands with Pfizer so that tourist bubble could open. It was on our news that we are running low on Pfizer, and like Australia NZ waited so the countries with the highest death rates had access ti it first, which maybe explains the slow rates,

-41 29th Jun 2021 08:57


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11070155)
thanks for admitting it is impossible to police and a bloody stupid idea.

the original post being if you are vaccinated then you do not have to obey lockdowns. The numbers of police required to adequately enforce and check that people moving about are fully vaccinated would require doubling the police force and stopping EVERYONE on the street.

we don’t have 50%, 60% + vaccinated here so our population is still very vulnerable.. any measures taken in countries where they do have those vaccinated rates therefore are irrelevant.


there are some real …… on here. Grow a brain

maybe they will use tattoos

Icarus2001 29th Jun 2021 09:10


Problem there is people play the game by leaving on one passport, but when they need to come back to Australia to get away from Covid they whip out their Australian Passport and demand to be let in
I had looked into this. When you present a foreign passport to leave “they” will see you do not have a visa for Australia and will ask how you entered the country. This force you to show a NZ or AUS passport anyway, so now you are sprung.
The reality is they know if you are an Australian citizen, your name and DOB will flag on the Border Farce system.

We are all being distracted, lock down is only needed because they cannot get us vaccinated due poor management of the purchase of vaccines.

Then they can open borders like most of the world.

Icarus2001 29th Jun 2021 09:13


The uk is actually seeing 200 hospitalisations PER DAY and is starting to increase.
200 in a population of 67 million people.

PoppaJo 29th Jun 2021 09:26


Originally Posted by vne165 (Post 11070124)
This has to be peak insanity...12 million people in lockdown....nearly 50% of the entire country.

I just hope the states don’t try and suppress the death rate when it takes off once we live in the land of herd immunity. I wouldn’t put it past some states to bring in restrictions when people start dropping like flies (not my problem get the fn jab)

People didn’t like it when Jayne made those statements. I’m glad she didn’t backtrack 100% on those words.

jrfsp 29th Jun 2021 09:48


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11070210)
200 in a population of 67 million people.

Im not saying, but like everywhere there is a finite capacity. Im not saying that this is an unacceptable number - but what are we doing to get ready for it? Adjusting for population we would see 60-70 per day - can you imagine? No wonder there are no plans for the border to open.

Our hospital system is pretty much maxed out as it is. We should have started preparing for increased capacity 18 months ago. In many states there is little to no ICU dept in the regions.


Lead Balloon 29th Jun 2021 10:03

I can imagine proper quarantine arrangements and adequate ICU infrastructure, all of which would cost less than the real cost of the lockdowns and border restrictions.

Foxxster 29th Jun 2021 10:47

Interesting…regarding the new European vaccine passport.

the interesting part was when she said only AstraZeneca vaccine MADE IN EUROPE is acceptable. Much of ours is made in Australia.



aviation_enthus 29th Jun 2021 10:59


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 11070157)
The uk is actually seeing 200 hospitalisations PER DAY and is starting to increase. What happens when the hospitals reach capacity? More restrictions?

200 per day.

In a country of 67 million…..

That has 122,000 hospital beds available….

Between January-March, 250 people PER DAY were admitted for “General Medicine” (22,000+ in 3 months).

Ahhhhhhh!!!

Bit of perspective please.



A public health system exists to improve outcomes for people affected by disease and injury. If we just “lockdown” for everything, why even bother to have a health system at all???

Ban smoking, driving and alcohol while you’re at it.

And how do you propose a lockdown should be used to prevent the spread of cancer? Or perhaps should people just go to the doctor and use the health system we all pay for?

3Greens 29th Jun 2021 11:14


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11070210)
200 in a population of 67 million people.

and this figure is ten times less than the numbers in previous waves. The demographic is vastly differant too. Many more younger people this time, which haven’t been vaccinated yet, and they are much less likely to need ICU treatment or ventilation.
The data is freely available on the U.K. NHS website.

aviation_enthus 29th Jun 2021 11:17


Originally Posted by 3Greens (Post 11070281)
The data is freely available on the U.K. NHS website.

Ssssshhhhhhhh!

Don’t tell anyone these things called “facts” are available! They’d all rather believe the latest panic driven, click bait headline.

Thanks to the rest of the world, there is a huge amount of data available to show the effectiveness of vaccines. But in Australia we wouldn’t know that because “the data isn’t clear yet”.

Transition Layer 29th Jun 2021 11:38


Originally Posted by aviation_enthus (Post 11070274)
200 per day.

In a country of 67 million…..

That has 122,000 hospital beds available….

Between January-March, 250 people PER DAY were admitted for “General Medicine” (22,000+ in 3 months).

Ahhhhhhh!!!

Bit of perspective please.



A public health system exists to improve outcomes for people affected by disease and injury. If we just “lockdown” for everything, why even bother to have a health system at all???

Ban smoking, driving and alcohol while you’re at it.

And how do you propose a lockdown should be used to prevent the spread of cancer? Or perhaps should people just go to the doctor and use the health system we all pay for?

Don’t bother reasoning with jrfsp, he/she has clearly been brainwashed with fear living happily under Herr McGowan’s reich. You know, the people who are OK with a “circuit breaker” lockdown to “crush” the virus, because of 3 whole cases in Perth :rolleyes:

Chronic Snoozer 29th Jun 2021 12:15


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 11070295)
Don’t bother reasoning with jrfsp, he/she has clearly been brainwashed with fear living happily under Herr McGowan’s reich. You know, the people who are OK with a “circuit breaker” lockdown to “crush” the virus, because of 3 whole cases in Perth :rolleyes:

And he as the temerity to provide veiled criticism of Gladys. WA's health system is an utter sh1tfight at the moment. 3rd world stuff. They cannot afford any sort of breakout because the system will quickly become overwhelmed. It's all good though, we have Ningaloo.

SOPS 29th Jun 2021 13:09

I don’t think we can afford a break out ( big) anywhere in Australia. Not just WA. ( yes I agree it seems WA Health is a bit fxxxxd). But I feel that this Delta thing as put a stop to normal again. I just want my second AZ.

AerialPerspective 29th Jun 2021 13:51


Originally Posted by Lead Balloon (Post 11070238)
I can imagine proper quarantine arrangements and adequate ICU infrastructure, all of which would cost less than the real cost of the lockdowns and border restrictions.

Yes. When you consider that the initial evacuation flights out of Wuhan, flew to XMas Island where the passengers were isolated for 14 days and as far as I know they didn't lead to community transmission, that should have been the model for repatriation. I'm sure if we dig through the archives we'll find there was probably some facility perfect for this but governments over time have thought "Nah, let it fall apart, we'll never need it". A bit like Trump abolishing the pandemic task force or whatever it was called, thinking it was a waste of money.

Clare Prop 29th Jun 2021 13:54

Provisional estimates of overseas trips in May 2021 show:
  • A total of 115,600 arrivals
  • 44,600 Australian citizens arrivals (39%), 9,900 permanent visa holders (9%), 52,300 New Zealand citizens (45%) and 10,100 temporary visa holders (9%)
  • A total of 108,300 departures
Overseas Travel Statistics, Provisional, May 2021 | Australian Bureau of Statistics (abs.gov.au)

AerialPerspective 29th Jun 2021 13:57


Originally Posted by chookcooker (Post 11070093)
except for the messaging.

it’s not a race,
AZ for adults.
Az only over 50s
wait , AZ only over 60s
hangon, AZ for everyone,
and hurry up and get it!! It’s a race!

then add the fact they knocked back Pfizer for a Israeli style total vaccination plan that would have had us 40M doses by now.
they do perhaps deserve some blame.

This government couldn't roll out a yoga mat. You don't need to look too far at their sheer incompetence and bastardry....... robodebt, sports rorts, community safety grant rorts, prosecution of witness K and BC, not to mention as the 'juice media' observe, the 'useless sack of sh-t' that orchestrated/approved the bugging, goes on to a cushy consultancy with the private company that stood to benefit from the result of the bugging despite at least one legal expert suggesting he broke the law and should be in court instead, who pays the price, the whistle-blowers, the people who they mismanage everything on behalf of, the journalists who try to report it but never those in charge....

SOPS 29th Jun 2021 14:01

NSW just shut to WA. I think we are almost done. Front doors locked , fire on, wine opened , lets see where this goes.

Icarus2001 29th Jun 2021 14:06

Yep those THREE cases in Perth must be pretty scary.

Keg 29th Jun 2021 14:20


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11070389)
NSW just shut to WA. I think we are almost done. Front doors locked , fire on, wine opened , lets see where this goes.

Shut? Or just require a declaration that you haven’t been to any of the exposure sights?

dr dre 29th Jun 2021 15:42


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 11070295)
Don’t bother reasoning with jrfsp, he/she has clearly been brainwashed with fear living happily under Herr McGowan’s reich. You know, the people who are OK with a “circuit breaker” lockdown to “crush” the virus, because of 3 whole cases in Perth :rolleyes:

Yeah, should’ve just sat on his ass like Gladys over in Sydney, and let it all develop into a 14 day lockdown.

WA has done 5, 3, and 4 days. So less total time for 3 breakouts than Sydney for 1. Even Bruz admitted today they should’ve locked down last week. Whoops.

I don’t like any of this going on either, but either make quarantine air tight and remote, which they won’t or vaccinate a lot of people, which they haven’t.

Chronic Snoozer 29th Jun 2021 16:33


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11070447)
Yeah, should’ve just sat on his ass like Gladys over in Sydney, and let it all develop into a 14 day lockdown.

WA has done 5, 3, and 4 days. So less total time for 3 breakouts than Sydney for 1. Even Bruz admitted today they should’ve locked down last week. Whoops.

I don’t like any of this going on either, but either make quarantine air tight and remote, which they won’t or vaccinate a lot of people, which they haven’t.

The outbreak started outside quarantine didn’t it? Each state follows its own CMO’s medical advice.

morno 29th Jun 2021 19:33


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11070155)
thanks for admitting it is impossible to police and a bloody stupid idea.

the original post being if you are vaccinated then you do not have to obey lockdowns. The numbers of police required to adequately enforce and check that people moving about are fully vaccinated would require doubling the police force and stopping EVERYONE on the street.

we don’t have 50%, 60% + vaccinated here so our population is still very vulnerable.. any measures taken in countries where they do have those vaccinated rates therefore are irrelevant.


there are some real …… on here. Grow a brain

Settle down dipshit. Think of it like a drivers license, we all need one to be out on the road, and you’re right, they can’t possibly police everyone, but the deterrent to driving without a license is the risk of getting pulled over and checked, followed by the consequences of a fine and possible court appearance. Now translate that into a vaccine certificate that permits you to be out and about during a lockdown.

Some people really need to grow a brain….

ChrisJ800 29th Jun 2021 22:52

Ops normal here in Tassie except my wife works in one of the large hotels which is now full of mainlanders in quarantine. First time that her hotel has had significant quarantine numbers.

gordonfvckingramsay 29th Jun 2021 23:10


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11070392)
Yep those THREE cases in Perth must be pretty scary.

Are you suggesting the THREE cases are scary or are you suggesting the potential number of cases that could come from those THREE people is? Three cases is not scary at all, but The Delta strain has an R0 of about 7, your THREE cases could be thousands in less than 30 days. A short, sharp lockdown prevents this.

cloudsurfng 29th Jun 2021 23:55


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11070389)
NSW just shut to WA. I think we are almost done. Front doors locked , fire on, wine opened , lets see where this goes.


this guy works for news.com.au or the dailymail I’m sure of it.


ScepticalOptomist 30th Jun 2021 00:06


Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay (Post 11070635)
Are you suggesting the THREE cases are scary or are you suggesting the potential number of cases that could come from those THREE people is? Three cases is not scary at all, but The Delta strain has an R0 of about 7, your THREE cases could be thousands in less than 30 days. A short, sharp lockdown prevents this.

And how many of those potential cases will need hospital treatment? Data from first world countries showing it’s definitely more infectious but causes serious illness approximately 90% less than previous strains. You don’t see Aussie media reporting that though do you? Doesn’t fit the “let’s keep em scared” narrative.

gordonfvckingramsay 30th Jun 2021 00:42


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 11070654)
And how many of those potential cases will need hospital treatment? Data from first world countries showing it’s definitely more infectious but causes serious illness approximately 90% less than previous strains. You don’t see Aussie media reporting that though do you? Doesn’t fit the “let’s keep em scared” narrative.

Throwing borders open doesn’t fit any health based narrative either.

Foxxster 30th Jun 2021 00:44


Originally Posted by morno (Post 11070535)
Settle down dipshit. Think of it like a drivers license, we all need one to be out on the road, and you’re right, they can’t possibly police everyone, but the deterrent to driving without a license is the risk of getting pulled over and checked, followed by the consequences of a fine and possible court appearance. Now translate that into a vaccine certificate that permits you to be out and about during a lockdown.

Some people really need to grow a brain….

no it doesn’t translate at all. The drivers licence scenario is not at all comparable to a pandemic with a highly contagious deadly virus.

God almighty. I sure hope you aren’t a pilot with people’s lives under your responsibility.

WingNut60 30th Jun 2021 00:48


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 11070654)
............ Data from first world countries showing it’s definitely more infectious but causes serious illness approximately 90% less than previous strains. ..........................

That fits the general model for evolution of pathogens, as I understand it.
There is no evolutionary advantage to killing your host.

And you are correct in that I have seen no such statistical data in the Australian media.
So I'm interested to see your source. I suspect that the 90% reduction that you mention would be linked to vaccination rates.
Because fatality rates at it's source (India) do not appear to be insignificant.

NumptyAussie 30th Jun 2021 00:48


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 11070654)
And how many of those potential cases will need hospital treatment? Data from first world countries showing it’s definitely more infectious but causes serious illness approximately 90% less than previous strains. You don’t see Aussie media reporting that though do you? Doesn’t fit the “let’s keep em scared” narrative.

Since you are across all the data, what are the vaccination rates in these "First world countries " of which you speak?


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