Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Network Aviation PIA

Old 22nd Aug 2023, 00:02
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Good luck and well done on getting the ball rolling.
Imagine for a second that you are an executive at a large businessÖ..your whole purpose is to minimise expenses and maximise profits. Thatís what you get paid to do and thatís what you get judged on. If your large business is an Airline you need to minimise the expense of fuel ( try some smart hedging and comms to pilots about how much they order, create an app that shows pilots where they sit compared to their peers etc),you also need to minimise the expense of labour, ( try divide and conquer, a Ďwages policyí , dragging out negotiations etc). Just do your best to minimise the cost, but at the end of the day if your hedging was off, or the Saudiís restrict supply, that doesnít mean you stop buying fuel, just that it was a tough day at the office. Same same with labour. The execs know exactly how much other industries( healthcare, education, IT etc) are increasing salaries by, they know itís coming for them too and that it is just a cost of doing business. Just a tough day at the office for them.
Donít feel too bad for them though, crack into it
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 02:16
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Network flying RPT Perth to Darwin, Broome and soon Hobart and Adelaide is just the beginning.

Don’t for a second think that all of those shiny new A321 NEOs are going to mainline, dangle that carrot in front of the Network crews and they’ll be falling all over themselves to sign any deal.

Between the E190s at Alliance, A220s in QantasLink and A320s at Network, Qantas domestic is slowly being outsourced.

Slice and dice the master plan is coming together perfectly!
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 02:48
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Originally Posted by Jester64
The same friends who voted in the current EBA which includes the day-off payment bit in it?
No. All newish starters from recent years 👍
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 03:06
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Originally Posted by Bull_Shark
Network flying RPT Perth to Darwin, Broome and soon Hobart and Adelaide is just the beginning.

Donít for a second think that all of those shiny new A321 NEOs are going to mainline, dangle that carrot in front of the Network crews and theyíll be falling all over themselves to sign any deal.

Between the E190s at Alliance, A220s in QantasLink and A320s at Network, Qantas domestic is slowly being outsourced.

Slice and dice the master plan is coming together perfectly!
I can assure you network crews won't be falling over for the 321s.. Crews call in sick for an overnight in the same state....don't kid yourself the planes and work aren't wanted by any of the pilots. The only people falling over for network to have these carrots dangled is management....crew just want more money and time off.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 03:12
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Originally Posted by Bull_Shark
Network flying RPT Perth to Darwin, Broome and soon Hobart and Adelaide is just the beginning.

Donít for a second think that all of those shiny new A321 NEOs are going to mainline, dangle that carrot in front of the Network crews and theyíll be falling all over themselves to sign any deal.

Between the E190s at Alliance, A220s in QantasLink and A320s at Network, Qantas domestic is slowly being outsourced.

Slice and dice the master plan is coming together perfectly!
Keep dreaming mate. All the A321ís and a dare say a fair chunk of the A220ís will be going to mainline. Donít believe it? When the company canít get pilots to fly them at the subsidiaries, do you think theyíre just going to accept their shiny new metal just sitting around parked up? Itís already close to happening, give it a bit longer and itíll only get worse.

Good luck to the NWA crews with your PIA. Itís the beginning of the end for managements erosion of Pilot terms and conditions finally.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 04:05
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Originally Posted by soseg
No. All newish starters from recent years 👍
I see, the same friends that joined the airline, signing up to the terms and conditions of the current EBAÖ.you get my point?
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 06:33
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Originally Posted by maverick4442
Captains saving the day for $500 a day too! Flying a A320!
Break it down less 47 percent for tax bringing it to a total $265, work a 10 hour day (Fixed day off payment) that is $26.50 an hour take home!
Might as well get a job at the local cafe most likely paying cash with zero responsibility.
I didn't know this, but if Captains are coming in at a lousy $500/day, that's really shitting in their own backyards, and nothing is going to save that kind of employee. Absolute morons!
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 07:42
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Originally Posted by morno
All the A321ís and a dare say a fair chunk of the A220ís will be going to mainline. Donít believe it? When the company canít get pilots to fly them at the subsidiaries, do you think theyíre just going to accept their shiny new metal just sitting around parked up?
I hope you're right, at least the existing 29 A220s and 20 321s have already been 'allocated' to the intended AOCs.

Unfortunately I can't see the crewing issues even being a contributing factor to where any more orders go to.
I'd say DECs, a heap of cadets, and dare I say it - mainline pilots parachuted in on secondment (cough JQ and EFA?) will keep the subsidiaries going until the next global calamity.
I've read somewhere in the public domain about orders for the 220 being able to be pushed back if required.

But to the point of the thread goodluck to NAA. Remember plenty of these guys joined a sleepy little charter mob to happily ply the Pilbara on weekday returns and thier old EBA probably reflects thier needs of those days gone.
A good number of them didn't want any RPT flying anymore than they wanted to join the white hat brigade in the first place.
Remember that for anyone inclined to call someone a 'bin chicken'.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 08:21
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno
Keep dreaming mate. All the A321ís and a dare say a fair chunk of the A220ís will be going to mainline. Donít believe it? When the company canít get pilots to fly them at the subsidiaries, do you think theyíre just going to accept their shiny new metal just sitting around parked up? Itís already close to happening, give it a bit longer and itíll only get worse.
That's a type of wishful thinking too, just from a different perspective.
People create in their mind the narrative that best suites their situation, but the reality is that only time will tell.

Best of luck to the Network pilots, I really hope you succeed and you show to the rest of the Qantas group how to put up a fight.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 09:55
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And Virgin. With negotiations about to get underway, and no doubt a sh1t sandwich being offered initially by Bain, resolute PIA will be a requirement for any future restoration of previous salary and conditions.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 10:09
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Originally Posted by slice
And Virgin. With negotiations about to get underway, and no doubt a sh1t sandwich being offered initially by Bain, resolute PIA will be a requirement for any future restoration of previous salary and conditions.
You cannot cave in, you need to educate the entire pilot body on how critical it is, for the current and future ranks, to get that deal done right.

I have my doubts that your group will fight for the future, considering behaviour Iíve seen in other agreements recently, but this would be the most important agreement for the VA Group since the place started. Huge ramifications for the future of that pilot group if a turkey is voted in. Do not cave in for a quick dollar like a few others have done.

Your negotiations should be starting at the old base salary reinstated. If the company doesnít even want to adhere to that, well then negotiations simply will not continue. Push bloody hard, and donít forget, the old base salary is just the bread crumbs, much more to be pushed after that bare minimum. Iíll be supporting from the sidelines.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 11:15
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Best of luck to the Network pilots, I really hope you succeed and you show to the rest of the Qantas group how to put up a fight.
Interested to know what the PIA actually involves. From what i have read so far it just appears to be a vote for taking PIA. Best of luck indeed but I can't see whether its a knife fight or a jelly wrestle.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 12:40
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Originally Posted by morno
Keep dreaming mate. All the A321ís and a dare say a fair chunk of the A220ís will be going to mainline. Donít believe it? When the company canít get pilots to fly them at the subsidiaries, do you think theyíre just going to accept their shiny new metal just sitting around parked up? Itís already close to happening, give it a bit longer and itíll only get worse.

Good luck to the NWA crews with your PIA. Itís the beginning of the end for managements erosion of Pilot terms and conditions finally.
Wish I shared your optimism. Yeah, theyíre struggling to crew the a220s and I am sure youíve heard the same rumours on the line that I have. But getting that fleet on the QF AOC would be the biggest win in our careers.

Iíll believe it when it comes to fruition.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 12:47
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Originally Posted by Jester64
I see, the same friends that joined the airline, signing up to the terms and conditions of the current EBAÖ.you get my point?
An upgrade from their previous jobs. However, as far as I know, these guys donít answer their phones for that pitiful call out. Theyíre not hours chasing for pennies. And were all AFAP members the day they joined.

My jab is at the expense of the scabs who are happy to come in for that ridiculous call out fee and those that only recently joined a union.

Id love to know how many pilots there as a percentage are union members and which morons didnít vote in favour of PIA. It was 3% wasnít it? Management stooges? Arenít the votes anonymous?
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 21:13
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Originally Posted by soseg
An upgrade from their previous jobs. However, as far as I know, these guys donít answer their phones for that pitiful call out. Theyíre not hours chasing for pennies. And were all AFAP members the day they joined.

My jab is at the expense of the scabs who are happy to come in for that ridiculous call out fee and those that only recently joined a union.

Id love to know how many pilots there as a percentage are union members and which morons didnít vote in favour of PIA. It was 3% wasnít it? Management stooges? Arenít the votes anonymous?
so they join Network on a sub-par and seriously eroded EBA in order to upgrade from their previous jobsÖlol donít you think itís a bitch rich to complain and bitch about your own colleagues who are trying to earn an extra buck (whilst not yet in PIA) and under a clause in an EBA that was voted in by the network pilots, and in an EBA that was accepted by all who decide to join? Iíd understand the resentment if working on a day off was collectively decided against as part of PIA, but itís not.

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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 21:45
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You can whinge and carry on about Pilots joining and accepting the Network EA all you want but if they want to live in Perth what other options do they have?

Many donít meet the puppy patting requirements of Coward street and the rest of the companies based in Perth are less secure jobs. Watch the Qantas 737 Pilots scrabble across to Network when they start downsizing the Perth Maggot base. Plenty of Jetstar and NJS Pilots both were on better conditions and both scrabbled across when faced with unemployment or East Coast relocation.

The best thing we can all do is throw our full support behind the NA Pilots.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 21:55
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Not complaining here about people accepting NWK conditions just to live in Perth. I just find it ridiculous one NWK pilot bitching about another when in they too choose (for whatever the personal reasons are) to come into work and fly day in day out for a shitty salary, day off or not. What a toxic place to be.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 23:08
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I've been told its best for all Australian pilots to focus on increasing mainline salaries, even if you arent a mainline pilot, as it will eventually pull up everyones salary.
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Old 22nd Aug 2023, 23:51
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
You can whinge and carry on about Pilots joining and accepting the Network EA all you want but if they want to live in Perth what other options do they have?

Many donít meet the puppy patting requirements of Coward street and the rest of the companies based in Perth are less secure jobs. Watch the Qantas 737 Pilots scrabble across to Network when they start downsizing the Perth Maggot base. Plenty of Jetstar and NJS Pilots both were on better conditions and both scrabbled across when faced with unemployment or East Coast relocation.

The best thing we can all do is throw our full support behind the NA Pilots.

hang on, arenít you the biggest user of Ďbin chickení on this website?

youíre seriously deluded thatís for sure. No 737 pilots will be scrambling to network. QF wonít close a pilot base, OR force people to leave. It costs them too much. More likely they will let the base shrink in size as people leave the fleet.

seriously, you have no idea about anything.
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 00:13
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Originally Posted by CaptainInsaneO
I've been told its best for all Australian pilots to focus on increasing mainline salaries, even if you arent a mainline pilot, as it will eventually pull up everyones salary.
And then be sure to call everyone in every other subsidiary a bin chicken, even though you voted a B scale into effect to throw new hires under the bus.
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