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Network Aviation PIA

Old 21st Aug 2023, 09:46
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Snoop Network Aviation PIA

https://michaelwest.com.au/a-joycefu...iners-carrier/
this could be interesting

Last Sunday, at a meeting in Perth, pilots belonging to the Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP), which covers about 80% of the around 240 pilots at Network Aviation, agreed to proceed with an application for Protected Industrial Action (PIA).That’s the same route that the division’s flight attendants plan to go down after a successful PIA vote was tallied last week, “much to the concern of management”, as one insider said. Both pilots and flight attendants are the worst paid in the Qantas Group, according to documents seen by MWM. They also miss out on rostering flexibility, optional time off and their staff perks – including basics such as meals – are down a rung from staff on the East coast.

MWM has learned that Network’s cabin crew, totalling about 300, could be on strike within a week.

Perth based Network Aviation started life as a mining charter specialist, catering to the countless thousands of fly-in-fly-out (FIFO) workers who operate Australia’s economic engine room, the iron ore mines of the Pilbara and their copper, zinc, nickel and lithium cousins. This remains its main business, but it is fast expanding into regular passenger services. It has taken over Qantas routes from Perth to Darwin, and insiders say plans to add flights from Perth to Adelaide and Hobart are well advanced.

A strike action has the capacity to severely upend Australia’s mining sector, as well as souring Alan Joyce’s farewell tour. Qantas’ resources are stretched, as one insider says, “to breaking point;” On any given day, a sick pilot or cabin crew member can throw the entire group into turmoil. Even staff now call it “Jetstar with a red tail,” – due to its ultra low-cost model.

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7th Oct 2023, 01:06
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I'm at Network & I don't normally post here but I want my aviation "colleagues" to know what its like for me. I live in constant anxiety about money & stress from Qantas. I worry every day, I don't sleep and my quality of life is non-existent. I have a small mortgage (less than 600k) and young family. My mortgage plus insurance is almost 70% of what I take home.The rest goes on food, petrol and utilities. In the last two years I have burnt through all of our savings (almost $20,000) . We have no money for anything extra, we never go out & don't drink, our life is ****, it's embarrassing. Perth & Network was supposed to be a good option, they told me all about how they were growing so fast & successful, quick command for a guy like me etc etc, all lies. I know they make a lot of money, but I ain't seeing it. We put our house on the market because we can't keep living like this. The company just threatens me, intimidates me and I work my arse off. I feel like a sucker, I still go to work but I hate it (not the people I fly with, they are great from front to back). I expect I'll be gone soon, I have a video interview for a job in the US this month. But be warned, anyone thinking about taking a job with these greedy fu**ers, do your homework, their GM is a fool and Qantas will not give two Shi*s about you or your family.
Old 21st Aug 2023, 10:46
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And maybe (hopefully!) this is where the move towards better terms and conditions for the entire industry - and the challenge to some arbitrary ‘wages policy’ - all begins
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 11:15
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink
And maybe (hopefully!) this is where the move towards better terms and conditions for the entire industry - and the challenge to some arbitrary ‘wages policy’ - all begins
Sure, but everyone still keeps voting the rubbish agreements up. 🤷‍♂️
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 11:31
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Networks union uptake has apparently sky rocketed in recent weeks/months. This raises the question of what the hell were these pilots thinking before? Fat dumb and happy getting paid half of what the mainline guys get and suddenly now the light bulb moment occurs?

Happy to sign off on ridiculous conditions in the past all for promised expansion which they got. Bravo. The company milks the mining contracts and now you’re stealing mainline RPT. Amazing. Congratulations. All at half of what you should be getting paid. Oh and when someone goes sick and it’s about to cost QF tens of thousands of dollars for a cancelled or delayed charter flight and their FOs agree to come in and save the day for $360/day purely because they’re hour building for emirates? And now suddenly they’re annoyed?!?!

You got your jets. You have a dozen more a319s coming. And yet some of you still aren’t union members?!?!

And the small percentage of you who still didn’t vote in favour of PIA?





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Old 21st Aug 2023, 11:45
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Wait till soseg realises it's not the pilots taking the work and there is a ceo that runs qantas....divide and conquer tactics seems to be working on the simple minded.
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 12:04
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Captains saving the day for $500 a day too! Flying a A320!
Break it down less 47 percent for tax bringing it to a total $265, work a 10 hour day (Fixed day off payment) that is $26.50 an hour take home!
Might as well get a job at the local cafe most likely paying cash with zero responsibility.







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Old 21st Aug 2023, 12:04
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Originally Posted by soseg
and now you’re stealing mainline RPT
Wrong. Mainline never 'owned' any RPT routes that Network now operate remember.

For someone who was still studying CPL exams in 2008 (a "smarter" way in sitting CPL/ATPLs ?) its even richer to imply an entitlement to such, or indeed labelling NAA crews as bin chickens while simply inheriting your own SH T&Cs from your forebearers rather than your own championing.

Goodluck to NAA guys/girls anyway

Last edited by Lapon; 21st Aug 2023 at 12:15.
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 12:11
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Originally Posted by soseg
Networks union uptake has apparently sky rocketed in recent weeks/months. This raises the question of what the hell were these pilots thinking before? Fat dumb and happy getting paid half of what the mainline guys get and suddenly now the light bulb moment occurs?

Happy to sign off on ridiculously **** conditions in the past all for promised expansion which they got. Bravo. The company milks the mining contracts and now you’re stealing mainline RPT. Amazing. Congratulations. All at half of what you should be getting paid. Oh and when someone goes sick and it’s about to cost QF tens of thousands of dollars for a cancelled or delayed charter flight and their FOs agree to come in and save the day for $360/day purely because they’re hour building for emirates? And now suddenly they’re annoyed?!?!

You got your jets. You have a dozen more a319s coming. And yet some of you still aren’t union members?!?!

And the small percentage of you who still didn’t vote in favour of PIA?


Only one dense one present here. Good one boomer. 🤦‍♂️

I think you'll find most of the gals and guys there now weren"t there for 2016 after significant growth. Maybe that has something to do with them making a stand to improve conditions now? Good luck to them.
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 12:14
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Originally Posted by Lapon
Wrong. Mainline never 'owned' any RPT routes that Network now operate remember.
No one ‘owns’ any routes. But it’s undeniable Network (along with other subsidiaries) has had a negative effect on mainline careers. The CP was publicly saying the latest batch of 320s rocking up were going to accelerate already fast promotion times. Hard words for mainline pilots who’ve been waiting two decades to get a sniff at the most junior commands.
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 12:16
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Wasn’t NJS under the ‘Airlink’ brand operating most of the intra-state WA routes before Mainline became Mainline…

Can’t believe it’s taken this long for Network to get PIA going, the agreement expired years ago! Good luck to em!
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 12:27
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Originally Posted by dr dre
No one ‘owns’ any routes. But it’s undeniable Network (along with other subsidiaries) has had a negative effect on mainline careers.
I remember hearing exaclty the same thing in the early JQ days and probably true then.
With the exeption of a few high time 320s arriving to Network, none of the other subsidiaries really operate routes/frequency that justify a 737. From a 50 seat dash 8 to 110 seat B717 it a bit of a step up to justify anything else, infact most of the subsidiary flying/frequency wouldn't exist with 737s alone.

The A220 might be a different story, but that ship has all but sailed just as the JQ one did years ago.
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 12:52
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Originally Posted by 1234fly
Wait till soseg realises it's not the pilots taking the work and there is a ceo that runs qantas....divide and conquer tactics seems to be working on the simple minded.
Genius.

I think the post went over your head. I’m in full support of them fighting aggressively and getting some wins.

The ones I am mocking are the ones who until very recently were not part of a union. So my question stands, what were they doing twiddling their thumbs until recently?

And dont try to excuse anyone offering to come into work on a day off to save the day for $360/day. Those pilots are a big problem and my friends who work at NAA are sick of them.

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Old 21st Aug 2023, 13:03
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Oh look, a new thread about pay and conditions...... oh wait, everyone is fighting each other again already. That didn't take long.

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Old 21st Aug 2023, 13:14
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Originally Posted by Lapon
Wrong. Mainline never 'owned' any RPT routes that Network now operate remember.

For someone who was still studying CPL exams in 2008 (a "smarter" way in sitting CPL/ATPLs ?) its even richer to imply an entitlement to such, or indeed labelling NAA crews as bin chickens while simply inheriting your own SH T&Cs from your forebearers rather than your own championing.

Goodluck to NAA guys/girls anyway
No, nobody “owns” a route but NAA was set up to service the resource sector primarily with charter ops for mining clients.

Perth Darwin is now a Netlink airbus.
Perth Broome same story.
Rumours of Adelaide and Hobart potentially going.

So tell me where does this stop? The company argues right aircraft right route. The bus and maggot are pretty damn similar. Then they argue that J class doesn’t sell anyway on these routes, when last year they increased Perth Hobart services as they wanted more J class on that route due to premium demand.
The Darwin and Broomes aren’t full. So you fill 140 economy seats out of 162 on the 737 or 140 economy on the a320 which I think has 180 total. What’s the difference? It’s the wages.

Mainline has the airbus 320 family on their EBA now. They could give a few of them to mainline right now instead of Network and keep them all economy to satisfy that lie about no demand for J class.

So why don’t they?

They claim the planes aren’t utilised much so they go to Network then literally, and I’m not making this up, five minutes later claim Network planes aren’t utilised enough between charters so that’s why they’ve gotten the ex-mainline RPTs.

Hundreds on hold with mainline. It’s the job almost everyone wants. It would sure help fix the lack of progression at mainline all thanks to management slowly carving everything up to poorly paid subsidiaries. Hell, it might even begin attracting people to SH if they see a stronger future there, instead people are turning it down happy to wait for an SO slot as there’s no glamour in SH.

So tell me where this is meant to end? Maybe when Netlink are running a320s between Melbourne and Sydney?
Those coming in for the 7 hours of log book time for a juicy Darwin return for $360 to save the day sure aren’t helping anyone.

Stop helping the company. Do the minimum and let them struggle. Then maybe they’ll really have no choice but to consider raising conditions when nobody answers their phone.

And no, not an entitlement just because 15 years ago I was still studying. I’ve had the older generation tell me over the years what it took to get the wins we all enjoy now especially on the LH EBA. I have thirty years left in this game as do my friends and colleagues. So excuse me for getting a little annoyed when all I’ve seen in my short time in the group is a continuous erosion of everything and expansion only in the subsidiaries.

Really makes you want to bang your head against a wall when you hear that until recently a large portion of Network pilots weren’t part of a union.




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Old 21st Aug 2023, 13:45
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It’s funny with all of this …to reflect …because I’m old enough to do so. Before a certain year… the AFAP was strong enough to ensure that if a airline ( or a some other sort of smaller operator) was bought by the lager airline, the pilots from the smaller airline, generally joined with similar conditions. ( for example when Ansett bought Skywest . ) Then after that year occurred, the race to the bottom started…and it still has not stopped.

I’m so glad I’m out of it.
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 13:49
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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA
Oh look, a new thread about pay and conditions...... oh wait, everyone is fighting each other again already. That didn't take long.
Welcome to PPRuNe. I don't know why it's like this either. So much for a united front.
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 14:10
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Originally Posted by soseg
Genius.

And dont try to excuse anyone offering to come into work on a day off to save the day for $360/day. Those pilots are a big problem and my friends who work at NAA are sick of them.
The same friends who voted in the current EBA which includes the day-off payment bit in it?
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 15:46
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Originally Posted by soseg
And dont try to excuse anyone offering to come into work on a day off to save the day for $360/day. Those pilots are a big problem and my friends who work at NAA are sick of them.
Did your friends also tell you that whatever the 'Day-Off' payment is you so valiantly quote, is not a Day Off rate but technically a roster adjustment rate - My friends tell me they get the $'s (not enough, I know)...but they also get to keep their Day Off in Lieu.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good mid-career rant...
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 21:45
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Good luck to those involved.
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Old 21st Aug 2023, 22:16
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Belittling pilots who are in the process of standing up for their rights and asserting their value is stupid and destructive.

Network taking PIA is fantastic news for the whole industry. When the Qantas Group and other RPT operators realise they can no longer treat pilots like crap and get away with it, the benefits will flow to all.

Network guys are in the very fortunate position of not having a looming threat of their flying being sent to a cheaper subsidiary. You have no reason not to push hard and get an outcome that properly values your contribution to the Group. Good luck and I hope for the best.
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