QF mandates Vaccine
Considering that only 4% of 12,000 respondents were against a vaccine mandate by Qantas there seems to be a fair weight of anti vaxers here with dubious stats and information. Sounds like the vast majority do not even work at Qantas or when given the chance they didn't respond. Pretty sure I only see a couple of names that are truly Qantas related. And like voting if you didn't respond, you probably lost your chance to affect any outcome. Qantas can impose the jab, there's precedence in child care and other industries that mandate vaccination or can't attend work, they just put you on sick leave until vaccinate, or leave and then it's done. Anyone thinking it's illegal and won't stand up in court is deluding themselves.
Considering that only 4% of 12,000 respondents were against a vaccine mandate by Qantas there seems to be a fair weight of anti vaxers here with dubious stats and information. Sounds like the vast majority do not even work at Qantas or when given the chance they didn't respond. Pretty sure I only see a couple of names that are truly Qantas related. And like voting if you didn't respond, you probably lost your chance to affect any outcome. Qantas can impose the jab, there's precedence in child care and other industries that mandate vaccination or can't attend work, they just put you on sick leave until vaccinate, or leave and then it's done. Anyone thinking it's illegal and won't stand up in court is deluding themselves.
It will be interesting to see how they go about actually enforcing vaccinations. From what I have seen, they seem incapable of even enforcing proper government mandated mask wearing protocols. So if you can't even get someone to wear a mask, good luck getting them to inject an unwanted vaccination into their arm! (Disclaimer: I'm vaccinated).
It will be interesting to see how they go about actually enforcing vaccinations. From what I have seen, they seem incapable of even enforcing proper government mandated mask wearing protocols. So if you can't even get someone to wear a mask, good luck getting them to inject an unwanted vaccination into their arm! (Disclaimer: I'm vaccinated).
Same with any company, you only get disciplined if you get caught out doing the wrong thing. Like speeding or any other civil offence, you have to be caught to be dealt with. That said if they require proof of vaccination and you forge that document, you will be terminated on the spot, I know the answer to that one, they could even refer it to authorities and charges could be laid.
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Although you weren't referring to me, if I was not vaccinated and caught C-19 I would not expect to require hospitalisation because of my condition and because the prevalent Delta variant, while more communicable, is much less virulent. I'd sit at home and wait for my immune system to deal with it, just as I do with a cold or flu. The mainstream media don't report that in India, where Delta was cooked up, the death rate was 1/7th that of the western world's experience up to then. Muller's ratchet dictates deleterious mutational effects in asexual species reproduction which is what we're seeing here. That means it's less harmful to you and me. That means you needn't live in fear, Turban. Why should anyone be forced to submit to an investigational vaccine just for something which is becoming closer and closer to flu-like effect?
That said, if I hadn't had the vaccine and I caught C-19 and was suffering enough to require hospitalisation I would not hesitate to present myself to a hospital and demand all the services they provide and I wouldn't for one single moment consider not doing so just because pro-vaccine people didn't like my hypothetical decision. And you'd have to just like it.
It's becoming understood that catching the disease and developing a natural immune response is safer than catching it and being "immunised" later with the experimental vaccine and that the latter process is producing some very unpleasant hyperimmune response effects for those people. This happens because there's no requirement to screen test-subjects for anti-bodies prior to their "vaccination." Given that many people have been unknowingly exposed and asymptomatic, that's a roll of the dice you'd be crazy to make in the face of the much less virulent Delta strain. Good luck with that.
In the UK there are currently 15,000 breakthrough cases a day of Delta in the "vaccinated"; this rate would normally preclude approval of a vaccination by the regulator and yet the hysteria and rush to become "vaccinated" are fanned every day. Why would you bother with it, other than to assuage your personal and irrational fears?
The people who bully others into submitting to this experiment may well have a lot to answer for down the track.
Seriously? Phase III trials usually take as long as four years before the drug is approved for broader use. In this case they tested the drugs on many times more people than normal in order to speed it up and called it Phase III trials. Conventionally they use those years to scrutinise the longer term effects of the drug. These drugs have not at all been scrutinised the way others have been. Everyone who's had this injection is a Phase IIIB guinea pig; a lab rat. Good luck.
I hope all those that are worried about putting a vaccine in their body don't eat chicken or any other mass produced meat. Most cattle is poked and prodded with various antibiotics and vaccines these days, GM growth supplements etc... Even your veggies are probably assisted by lab altered gene splicing and such for pest and weed control, climatic resistance etc.... You are best not eating anything, better still hold your breath if you live near a farm or city, the stuff floating around in the atmosphere might affect you over the long term.....
You're right about the prevalence of these toxins in our day-to-day world but to compare it to this investigational vaccine is disingenuous and ignorant and a pretty cheap shot.
I agree with most of what you're say Mutley, however, here's my take on it,
I took the vaccine AZ not out of fear or dying and I do see it as experimental whether it is in fact or not. I do see myself as an experimental subject and knew that at the time. I concluded on account of my age and circumstances I would be the best place to start before the rest of my younger family roll up their sleeves.
I hope that there are no consequences in the longer term. Had I been 20 I would not have been at the front of the queue and I'm still not comfortable with that age group.
Having personal exposure to the effect of long covid I do honestly believe that if the vaccination solves that issue, which appears to be the case then it's a better way to go, although I believe the long term consequence of having been infected will be significant enough and yet to reveal itself.
I respect anyone's decision not to be vaccinated, that must remain a personal decision as must being vaccinated. If you choose not to, then don't get infected and I really don't know how you can avoid that and remain within our society.
I took the vaccine AZ not out of fear or dying and I do see it as experimental whether it is in fact or not. I do see myself as an experimental subject and knew that at the time. I concluded on account of my age and circumstances I would be the best place to start before the rest of my younger family roll up their sleeves.
I hope that there are no consequences in the longer term. Had I been 20 I would not have been at the front of the queue and I'm still not comfortable with that age group.
Having personal exposure to the effect of long covid I do honestly believe that if the vaccination solves that issue, which appears to be the case then it's a better way to go, although I believe the long term consequence of having been infected will be significant enough and yet to reveal itself.
I respect anyone's decision not to be vaccinated, that must remain a personal decision as must being vaccinated. If you choose not to, then don't get infected and I really don't know how you can avoid that and remain within our society.
That's funny. I'd be amazed if you're not aware there are easily accessible alternatives in mainstream supermarkets to those foods to which you've referred; there is "organic" chemical and hormone-free chicken and beef easily available and the F&V sections have produce grown without pesticides or genetic modification. Not much you can do about the air but you can filter your water. It all costs money though so most are content to eat and drink with eyes and mind closed to the reality of what they're consuming.
You're right about the prevalence of these toxins in our day-to-day world but to compare it to this investigational vaccine is disingenuous and ignorant and a pretty cheap shot.
What I find even funnier is that this is a pilots forum, where you are encased in a Aluminium tube coated in horribly cancerous anti corrosion fluid, surrounded by hydrocarbon fittings that emit cancerous fumes when heated or exposed to UV, breathing bleed air that with small mechanical faults lets in mists of cancerous turbine oil and aircon lubricant while hurtling in a part of the atmosphere that offers little protection from solar radiation. And you care about the future effects of a vaccine that is doing everything it should, and well, with what is considered very small side effects compared to many other medicines. I could go on, but the kids might start getting scared of flying.
Last edited by 43Inches; 24th Aug 2021 at 05:02.
You're right about the prevalence of these toxins in our day-to-day world but to compare it to this investigational vaccine is disingenuous and ignorant and a pretty cheap shot.
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This discussion is sooo 2020.
43Inches wrote:
You are spot on. A recent survey here into who writes anti vaccine posts on various internet forums, found a small group of people who produce a large amount of anti-vaxx posts. A few people making a lot of noise and they do it wherever they can. Seen any first time posters in this thread?
Believe it or not, but the vaccine resistance is organized with directions on how and what to say. They often point to what looks like official information, say you need to educate yourself, ask you not to trust the official information since the authorities have a hidden agenda, call normal information channels fake news, make claims that are incorrect, but difficult to prove not to be, all pro vaxx are sheep, and so on.
I even got a nicely done pamphlet in my mailbox (quite early on in the pandemic), describing a spiders web of who is trying to press us into taking the vaccines. Designed to scare me.
Why would anybody work so hard against something that is completely voluntary to do?
43Inches wrote:
Considering that only 4% of 12,000 respondents were against a vaccine mandate by Qantas there seems to be a fair weight of anti vaxers here with dubious stats and information. Sounds like the vast majority do not even work at Qantas or when given the chance they didn't respond. Pretty sure I only see a couple of names that are truly Qantas related.
Believe it or not, but the vaccine resistance is organized with directions on how and what to say. They often point to what looks like official information, say you need to educate yourself, ask you not to trust the official information since the authorities have a hidden agenda, call normal information channels fake news, make claims that are incorrect, but difficult to prove not to be, all pro vaxx are sheep, and so on.
I even got a nicely done pamphlet in my mailbox (quite early on in the pandemic), describing a spiders web of who is trying to press us into taking the vaccines. Designed to scare me.
Why would anybody work so hard against something that is completely voluntary to do?
Whilst I agree with most of what you say too 43, you need to understand that when someone is presented with something they don't know about or even unsure about and they believe they are being coerced into doing something without consideration, then they will respond adversely, possibly aggressively or even violently, it's our fundamental defensive reaction. Some 30 year olds in the unaffected states haven't even thought about it yet let alone discussed it, Think about it like someone is trying to sell you something you don't want and they won't take no for an answer.
I even got a nicely done pamphlet in my mailbox (quite early on in the pandemic), describing a spiders web of who is trying to press us into taking the vaccines. Designed to scare me.
Believe it or not, but the vaccine resistance is organized with directions on how and what to say.
Last edited by 43Inches; 24th Aug 2021 at 10:03.
Concur entirely. It is hard to judge though on here who is genuinely a lost soul that has got caught up in the "conspiracy" or is one of the protagonists pushing it and just recycling old information to swamp what's real out there or, just a pot stirrer amusing themselves.
The other issue is that what we write has no body language and can easily be misinterpreted. Years ago I has a lecturer that what say "You will do this" and You will do that" after a day of that I was so infuriated I wanted to knock him out. That night among colleagues and telling the story, they said no mate he's a really good guy, english isn't his first language, are you sure he didn't mean "will you" oh! oh ****! he must think I'm the biggest arsehole that walks the planet.
Last edited by Xeptu; 24th Aug 2021 at 11:24.
I'm not a pilot. I do know that aeronautical pursuits involves science. Ergo, I would have thought that pilots would trust science more than say Tarot card readers or water diviners. From an SLF perspective, I'm more than happy that Qantas is mandating this. Any pilot that believes so strenuously that "Karen from Facebook" has all the answers when it comes to vaccines is not the dude I want behind the yoke when I am in the back. If a failure of some sort occurs, I want the crew to consult the aircraft manual for the correct procedure to fix the issue, rather than instead decide that there was a you-tube video last week from a 13 year old that showed an alternative solution, and we'll take their advice.
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I'm not a pilot. I do know that aeronautical pursuits involves science. Ergo, I would have thought that pilots would trust science more than say Tarot card readers or water diviners. From an SLF perspective, I'm more than happy that Qantas is mandating this. Any pilot that believes so strenuously that "Karen from Facebook" has all the answers when it comes to vaccines is not the dude I want behind the yoke when I am in the back. If a failure of some sort occurs, I want the crew to consult the aircraft manual for the correct procedure to fix the issue, rather than instead decide that there was a you-tube video last week from a 13 year old that showed an alternative solution, and we'll take their advice.
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Since we're going to allow Companies to just make up laws why stop at vaccinations. You won't mind then if your company mandate all those over age 40 that are overweight and or have diabetes are in a high risk group to both yourself and those you work with, we therefore mandate those in that high risk group to resolve that condition by November 15. This is made after careful consideration of the undisputed science.
On that basis you'll be more than happy with that.
Last edited by Xeptu; 24th Aug 2021 at 13:52.
Except that those making the Mandate are not pilots either and vaccines have nothing to do with what pilots do.
Since we're going to allow Companies to just make up laws why stop at vaccinations. You won't mind then if your company mandate all those over age 40 that are overweight and or have diabetes are in a high risk group to both yourself and those you work with, we therefore mandate those in that high risk group to resolve that condition by November 15. This is made after careful consideration of the undisputed science.
On that basis you'll be more than happy with that.
Since we're going to allow Companies to just make up laws why stop at vaccinations. You won't mind then if your company mandate all those over age 40 that are overweight and or have diabetes are in a high risk group to both yourself and those you work with, we therefore mandate those in that high risk group to resolve that condition by November 15. This is made after careful consideration of the undisputed science.
On that basis you'll be more than happy with that.
How many non believers are going to sell their souls for pieces of silver (vaccine)?
Ex reservations consultant now retired and fully vaccinated.
Some of the smartest people on the planet have been involved in the research and development of the COVID vaccines. Budgets worth billions. Thousands of scientists, doctors, immunologists and virologists yet the non believers think they’re smarter with a glass of red and half an hour using google to confirm their bias.
The next time you get on an aeroplane how do you know it’s safe to fly on? Is the engineering up to scratch? Has the Captain had a bender the night before due to their divorce. What about the F/O whom just scraped through on their last sim. Nope you get onboard having faith and trust in those appointed as specialists in their field to keep you safe so you can recline knowing that the thousands of engineers and pilots that built and fly the machine are experts in what they do.
At what point in society do we acknowledge and let the experts make the call? What makes the ignorant suddenly such experts on immunology and vaccines? Do you even know what a confidence interval or p value is? Let us all know when you understand the full gamut of the subject otherwise you’re not qualified to comment.I’m certainly not either.
I trust the science. I’m not smart enough to know otherwise and I’m certainly no expert in any of the above fields but I’m humble enough to know what I don’t know and that’s a significant amount.
Alan Jones either maliciously or stupidly failing to understand data. Ironically backed up by Craig Kelly calling for having government officials that “can understand the data”.
Freedom of speech isn’t the same thing as telling dangerous lies.