Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

QF mandates Vaccine

Old 9th Oct 2021, 20:20
  #841 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: melbourne
Posts: 787
Received 66 Likes on 35 Posts
Originally Posted by cloudsurfng
It states what was said pages ago. No jab, no job.

Is it lawful? Didn’t SPC or someone just win a case about it?

how will they police it? Probably the same was as something like a passport or visa. . If a jab is required, it will be required by a certain date. No jab, stand down until you get it.
Yes,SPC did win a case a few days ago. I didnt hear a lot of the detail but the judge agreed with them.
blubak is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 21:02
  #842 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 2,468
Received 310 Likes on 116 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Excellent, at least the company is now responsible for it. It remains to be seen if it is lawful. Most of us in the business community are back peddling on this issue for that reason. Who pays, who polices it and how do we do this. We think it's all too hard and un-necessary. We intend to wait it out and see what happens.

P.S what does the policy state
Mate I’ll simplify it for you.
  • Who pays? The government, it’s free
  • Who polices it? The same people who police any licenses/Medicals/permits you are required to have.
  • How do we do this? You say “send us your vaccination certificate”

Quite simple really.
morno is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:08
  #843 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,117
Received 66 Likes on 40 Posts
Originally Posted by morno
Mate I’ll simplify it for you.
  • Who pays? The government, it’s free
  • Who polices it? The same people who police any licenses/Medicals/permits you are required to have.
  • How do we do this? You say “send us your vaccination certificate”

Quite simple really.
Only the vaccination itself is free
Everything else someone has to do, it remains to be seen how "quite simple really" that will be in practice.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:16
  #844 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 916
Received 19 Likes on 12 Posts
Originally Posted by cloudsurfng
It states what was said pages ago. No jab, no job.

Is it lawful? Didn’t SPC or someone just win a case about it?

how will they police it? Probably the same was as something like a passport or visa. . If a jab is required, it will be required by a certain date. No jab, stand down until you get it.

Canned food giant SPC has been cleared by Victoria's work safety regulator of not properly consulting staff on its COVID-19 vaccination mandate.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:18
  #845 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Mycenae
Posts: 506
Received 9 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Only the vaccination itself is free
Everything else someone has to do, it remains to be seen how "quite simple really" that will be in practice.
Create new recency item in employee recency management software with expiry on relevant deadline.
Send email to all staff telling them to get vaccinated and send in certificate.
As staff send in certificates, upload them to recency management software.
After deadline send list of unvaccinated staff to HR for termination.
EndEx.
StudentInDebt is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:18
  #846 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Doomadgee
Posts: 280
Received 47 Likes on 25 Posts
From the abc, it takes about 10 minutes to fake a vaccination certificate ....
Capn Rex Havoc is online now  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:19
  #847 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Mycenae
Posts: 506
Received 9 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc
From the abc, it takes about 10 minutes to fake a vaccination certificate ....
Same time to fake a class 1 or Part 61 licence. Doesn’t seem to happen that often.
StudentInDebt is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:22
  #848 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,780
Received 411 Likes on 227 Posts
Pretty sure it's now policy at Virgin and Rex, so your options for a career path in Aviation are diminishing fast if un-vaccinated. The RAAF also has mandatory vaccination, inclusive of covid vaccine, prior to deployment.

From the abc, it takes about 10 minutes to fake a vaccination certificate ....
And if you get caught doing it, you will probably never work in an airline again or hold an ASIC. I could forge numerous things, if i did and got caught, I pay the penalty, so it's stupid to say it's something related to Covid.

I mean I could get an Uzi and do drive by shootings of shops that don't let me in, is it possible, yes, is it legal, no, is it stupid.....
43Inches is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:34
  #849 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Timbuktoo
Posts: 261
Received 152 Likes on 46 Posts
Create new recency item in employee recency management software with expiry on relevant deadline.
Send email to all staff telling them to get vaccinated and send in certificate.
As staff send in certificates, upload them to recency management software.
After deadline send list of unvaccinated staff to HR for termination.
EndEx.
Everyone else look on in glee as selfish anti-vaxxers (who also often were the ones pushing cuckoo conspiracy theories in the flight deck) disappear off the seniority list and that path to command becomes clearer.
brokenagain is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:36
  #850 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,117
Received 66 Likes on 40 Posts
The whole issue of Lawful isn't a problem whilst a State of Emergency exists, once that no longer applies all those health directives are no longer relevant.
In terms of practical it's less of an issue for company staff where there are few and the turn over is low, it becomes a problem when there are many and the turn over is high and those same conditions apply to the business clientele. In an Airlines case, it's passengers. Not all business's can use a flight attendant to check as you pass through the boarding process 3 times.

If it's flawed it won't work. I see it as just another fatigue related issue that will end up ugly.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:51
  #851 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,780
Received 411 Likes on 227 Posts
The whole issue of Lawful isn't a problem whilst a State of Emergency exists, once that no longer applies all those health directives are no longer relevant.
Hence why the government is leaving it to businesses to fight the mandate. However the CHO still has powers to direct individuals to isolate and test etc via individual notice. The SOE only provides for general overall directives of the overall public, restriction of movement on a mass scale. The CHO can still tell the individual that has or has contacted someone with covid to isolate and restrict their movement outside of SOE.

In an Airlines case, it's passengers. Not all business's can use a flight attendant to check as you pass through the boarding process 3 times.
Airlines are moving to mandate only staff be vaccinated, pretty sure like allergy control they won't be doing much to check passengers.
43Inches is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:51
  #852 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,117
Received 66 Likes on 40 Posts
Originally Posted by brokenagain
Everyone else look on in glee as selfish anti-vaxxers (who also often were the ones pushing cuckoo conspiracy theories in the flight deck) disappear off the seniority list and that path to command becomes clearer.
From flight staff perspective, I doubt there are any antivaxxers, that's something all of us knew would be necessary when we signed up. The issue will be the 3% the vaccine simply doesn't work for, which in a practical sense is no different to an unvaccinated person.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:54
  #853 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Timbuktoo
Posts: 261
Received 152 Likes on 46 Posts
From flight staff perspective, I doubt there are any antivaxxers,
I can tell you for a fact there are. The best approach I have found is either to call in sick or suck it up, look out the side window, and smile and nod.
brokenagain is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:56
  #854 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,780
Received 411 Likes on 227 Posts
From flight staff perspective, I doubt there are any antivaxxers, that's something all of us knew would be necessary when we signed up. The issue will be the 3% the vaccine simply doesn't work for, which in a practical sense is no different to an unvaccinated person.
There are anti-vaxxers and there are the principle holders against mandatory jabs, both types exist in aircrew. I've met both types. I'm generally against mandatory vaccination, however It's not a strong position that I would ruin my career over. So no, I won't be striking or taking action for it as I see the benefit of being vaccinated over not, greater good, so on....

I look at this from the medical point of view, the vaccination does far less harm, and has better outcomes than getting the virus. So the vaccination wins my vote. If others take it to mandatory settings, it has no real harm and has benefits. The only real downside is the loss of some rights of choice. I could still choose to go un-vaccinated and restrict my movement potential and career choices and be legal. I could choose to forge documents and say I'm vaccinated and be illegal, just like I could choose to run a red light today and close my eyes for fun, nothing stopping me from doing it.
43Inches is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 22:59
  #855 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,117
Received 66 Likes on 40 Posts
[QUOTE=43Inches;11123951Airlines are moving to mandate only staff be vaccinated, pretty sure like allergy control they won't be doing much to check passengers.[/QUOTE]

If that's the case and I hope you're right, then there's no need for a mandate then, leave it to everyone's own common sense.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 23:06
  #856 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,117
Received 66 Likes on 40 Posts
Are they antivaxxers or anti mandate, being an anti mandate, like myself doesn't mean antivaxer.
I agree with you, I wouldn't act for an antivaxxer, but I would and have for anti mandate. We are not doing it,
Xeptu is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2021, 23:08
  #857 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,780
Received 411 Likes on 227 Posts
The airline thing will be interesting to watch, overseas they have some vaxxed only flights, where all passengers are proved vaccinated to purchase. Other flights are only dependent on what the entry requirements of the nation/state they are travelling to. It may come down to what the travelling public want, if they want to pay for vaxxed only flights, they might become the norm.

Are they antivaxxers or anti mandate,
Both types. True anti vaxxers are very rare though.
43Inches is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 02:06
  #858 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 19 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Are they antivaxxers or anti mandate, being an anti mandate, like myself doesn't mean antivaxer.
I agree with you, I wouldn't act for an antivaxxer, but I would and have for anti mandate. We are not doing it,
Just to clarify whom you are from your comments, are you a lawyer? If so why this forum and not an equivalent law forum? Just curious. Are you looking to gauge a reaction for a class action perhaps?

So there are now two camps apparently.
“Antivaxxers”
“Antimandaters” to vaccination but not anti vaxxers per se.

How is it for professional pilots in particular whom are required to abide by a myriad of strict rules governing the operation in order to keep things disciplined on the flight deck primarily for safety, are questioning the vaccine mandate as unlawful. How can you be so disciplined in one sphere and yet so recalcitrant in another? Would you push a minima? No. Would you let the joker sitting next to you bust a limit knowingly? No. Would you disregard a checklist, thinking you have a better solution? No. So why is it, that for antimandater airline pilots that have spent thousands of hours maintaining a disciplined, safety conscious operation, are now questioning a rule/mandate that ultimately will keep them safe and healthy, relatively.

Is it more to do with your individuality or being told what to do? Are you anti authority? We all suffer from crap rules sometimes. I’ve had my fair share of security altercations that’s for sure, but to put your job on the line for it appears unbalanced. The consequences for complying with the mandate verses saying NO are pretty compelling for YES. Perhaps pride is clouding your logic. I’m afraid I just don’t understand at the end of the day.
Troo believer is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 02:20
  #859 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,906
Received 386 Likes on 201 Posts
Forging a Covid vaccination certificate? Your covid jab info is on line, don't know who has access to your info besides yourself at the moment, but I'm sure it could be made available to anyone the government decides, such as a company HR perhaps who wishes to keep tabs on their employees. Your doctor has access.
megan is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 03:19
  #860 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,780
Received 411 Likes on 227 Posts
So there are now two camps apparently.
“Antivaxxers”
“Antimandaters” to vaccination but not anti vaxxers per se.
There has been two camps for a while, they are very different points of view so the argument differs between them. Why is that important? because anti vaxxers tend to be unreasonable and can't be swayed. The mandate protesters tend to have more shades or levels of objection and can be reasoned with as it's generally an informed or educated position based on rights and such. I would say the number of people who object to mandates are quite high, similar to those who object to female pilot mandates, minority mandates etc. Similar to those other mandates there are only a few who will stand up against as a point of principle. Yes you can throw in some other issues like anti authority and other issues one might have, but its not one thing. Some people have very strong views on human rights and some don't.
43Inches is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.