Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

QF mandates Vaccine

Old 10th Oct 2021, 04:42
  #861 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes on 11 Posts
Troo believer: You can't see the anti mandate issue because you are an employee, hard wired in your field to comply with those directions I the employer impose upon you.

I the employer have absolutely no right to impose upon you or anyone else other than myself anything that is both personal and permanent, regardless of what I believe to be a good thing or not. Unless I make it a condition of your employment before I employ you.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 04:48
  #862 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by megan
Forging a Covid vaccination certificate? Your covid jab info is on line, don't know who has access to your info besides yourself at the moment, but I'm sure it could be made available to anyone the government decides, such as a company HR perhaps who wishes to keep tabs on their employees. Your doctor has access.
How much of your personal information will you accept being available to anyone the government decides.

P.S Mmmm!!! about friday night megan.....
Xeptu is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 05:59
  #863 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 576
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu

I the employer have absolutely no right to impose upon you or anyone else other than myself anything that is both personal and permanent, regardless of what I believe to be a good thing or not. Unless I make it a condition of your employment before I employ you.
The residential aged care sector might beg to disagree. Was it only last year that the flu vaccine became mandatory there?
itsnotthatbloodyhard is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 06:32
  #864 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Not at work
Posts: 1,552
Received 25 Likes on 15 Posts
Xeptu is one confused little person.

He/she is more than happy to get on here and shout from the rooftops about how awesome McGowan is, and what a fabulous job WA is doing. But not willing to support mandatory vaccinations for certain workers, which is the only real way out of this pandemic.

The answer is not hard borders, and definitely not tough talk and spin from Emperor MaoGowan.
Transition Layer is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 06:34
  #865 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by itsnotthatbloodyhard
The residential aged care sector might beg to disagree. Was it only last year that the flu vaccine became mandatory there?
That's because it is under the control of Federal Health, they have those powers as do the States Health. That doesn't extend outside of those areas of responsibility, except in the case of an individual subject to a health order.

The topic is about health/vaccine mandates made by a Company, it has morphed away from QF specifically.

Anyhow, this topic is done from me, enough said, it's not something I will do for our staff other than health directive compliance.

Extended: Hahaar! all hail Emporer McGowan, how's Gladys getting on.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 08:21
  #866 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 223
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
That's because it is under the control of Federal Health, they have those powers as do the States Health. That doesn't extend outside of those areas of responsibility, except in the case of an individual subject to a health order.

The topic is about health/vaccine mandates made by a Company, it has morphed away from QF specifically.
Question for you then - if, as has happened, thereís a State order requiring employees of businesses at Sydney Airport to be vaccinated, and itís a condition of employment that employees work at/fly into Sydney Airport, does that then become an inherent requirement of the job? Making it reasonable to require employees to be vaccinated as a condition of their employment?

I have no idea what your company is Xeptu, it may be perfectly reasonable not to have a vaccine mandate. If, say, itís an aged care provider for example and your employees were required under State or Federal law to be vaccinated to enter aged care homes though, would you keep employees on in positions where they could not do productive work, or have to make them redundant? Because then you effectively have a vaccine mandate - you could require all new employees to be vaccinated, or existing ones to be vaccinated by a certain date or be placed on unpaid leave as there is no productive work they can do.
De_flieger is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 08:34
  #867 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2,955
Received 49 Likes on 20 Posts
Question for you then - if, as has happened, thereís a State order requiring employees of businesses at Sydney Airport to be vaccinated, and itís a condition of employment that employees work at/fly into Sydney Airport, does that then become an inherent requirement of the job? Making it reasonable to require employees to be vaccinated as a condition of their employment?
That's what we have courts to answer those questions.
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 09:45
  #868 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by De_flieger
Question for you then - if, as has happened, there’s a State order requiring employees of businesses at Sydney Airport to be vaccinated, and it’s a condition of employment that employees work at/fly into Sydney Airport, does that then become an inherent requirement of the job? Making it reasonable to require employees to be vaccinated as a condition of their employment?
I wasn't going to say anymore about this issue, but I'll answer your question as I understand it. When the federal Government mandated "some airport workers" these are those that fall under their jurisdiction, immigration, border control, quarantine, AFP, there may be others. It doesn't extend to the airport cafe and those business types.
To my knowledge the states haven't mandated anyone outside of their juristiction, health department employees, hospitals, those employed by the state. Note that not all the states have applied that particularly among their own hospitals. I have family in ICU and they have not been mandated. The appropriate way to do this is as an act of federal parliament, all of us including non citizen permanent residents.
If the Federal Government won't do it, what business does a Company/Business have doing it, hence the anti mandate argument. Do it right and you have my support. I don't mind a Company doing it for new employees.

Thats it from me on this issue.

Correction to Statement: Mandate for ICU staff in effect as of mid Sept, family member exempt as are those infected pre vaccine.

Last edited by Xeptu; 10th Oct 2021 at 10:56.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 10:32
  #869 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
I wasn't going to say anymore about this issue, but I'll answer your question as I understand it. When the federal Government mandated "some airport workers" these are those that fall under their jurisdiction, immigration, border control, quarantine, AFP, there may be others. It doesn't extend to the airport cafe and those business types.
To my knowledge the states haven't mandated anyone outside of their juristiction, health department employees, hospitals, those employed by the state. Note that not all the states have applied that particularly among their own hospitals. I have family in ICU and they have not been mandated. The appropriate way to do this is as an act of federal parliament, all of us including non citizen permanent residents.
If the Federal Government won't do it, what business does a Company/Business have doing it, hence the anti mandate argument. Do it right and you have my support. I don't mind a Company doing it for new employees.

Thats it from me on this issue.
Family in ICU and vaccination isnít mandated. Thatís absolute horse shit mate. Dead set ******.
Troo believer is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 10:48
  #870 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Mycenae
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
I have family in ICU and they have not been mandated.
If they work in ICU in WA then youíre wrong, you can find out more here https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/~/media...Guidelines.pdf

Youíre also off on your ideas on the conditions under which you can tell your employees to get vaccinated but youíre out of that conversation.
StudentInDebt is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 11:01
  #871 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 4,196
Received 51 Likes on 25 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
I
To my knowledge the states haven't mandated anyone outside of their juristiction, health department employees, hospitals, those employed by the state.
try VIC. List here. Anyone involved in the provision of air transport for one.
https://www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au/i...-be-vaccinated
And jab 1 by the end of this weekÖ.
compressor stall is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 11:18
  #872 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 6 Posts
From Victoria
https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/sites/de...directions.pdf.

From WA.
https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.a...e-workers.aspx

Xeptu you are so full of patronising crap. Go back and crawl under a sand dune somewhere. Seriously please just fuc* off.
Troo believer is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 19:07
  #873 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,514
Received 239 Likes on 120 Posts
How much of your personal information will you accept being available to anyone the government decides.

P.S Mmmm!!! about friday night megan.....
Can't think of one solitary thing I feel a need to keep really, really secret, if you really want to know something about somebody ask giggle, I'm sure they even know your squeezes inside leg measurement, don't know what they charge though.

And what about Friday night?
megan is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 21:11
  #874 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: brisbane
Age: 57
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by megan
Forging a Covid vaccination certificate? Your covid jab info is on line, don't know who has access to your info besides yourself at the moment, but I'm sure it could be made available to anyone the government decides, such as a company HR perhaps who wishes to keep tabs on their employees. Your doctor has access.
there is a privacy act in place to prevent that. Qantas, virgin or Rex HR do not give a sh$t about validation of vaccination certificates. It is purely a box ticking exercise so on Qantas.com they can put a logo stating that “all our crew are fully vaxxed “.

so yes people will submit fake certificates and yes you will be flying and mixing with unvaxxed crew.
union is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 22:00
  #875 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by union

so yes people will submit fake certificates and yes you will be flying and mixing with unvaxxed crew.
Potential Commonwealth offence with prison time for anyone convicted of doing that. Goes without saying that you would also not be able to hold an ASIC.
theheadmaster is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 22:02
  #876 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 639
Received 8 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by union
so yes people will submit fake certificates and yes you will be flying and mixing with unvaxxed crew.
If some numbnut submits a fake certificate and then gets kicked out of QF, I will laugh so hard I may actually rupture a blood vessel.
ruprecht is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 22:20
  #877 (permalink)  
Whispering "T" Jet
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Melbourne.
Age: 67
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by union
Qantas, virgin or Rex HR do not give a sh$t about validation of vaccination certificates. It is purely a box ticking exercise so on Qantas.com they can put a logo stating that ďall our crew are fully vaxxed ď.
I would NOT like to test that theory in a court of law.
3 Holer is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2021, 23:36
  #878 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu

I the employer have absolutely no right to impose upon you or anyone else other than myself anything that is both personal and permanent, regardless of what I believe to be a good thing or not. Unless I make it a condition of your employment before I employ you.
You have stated on several posts what you believe are the circumstances an employer can mandate vaccination. To clarify for you and for others that may be confused, the Fair Work website states the following:

Can an employer require an employee to be vaccinated?

Employers can only require their employees to be vaccinated where:See Fair Work web site: https://coronavirus.fairwork.gov.au/...-the-workplace

Note, that there are circumstances other than a health order or employment contract/EA where an employer can mandate vaccination - where it is 'lawful and reasonable'. Note also that 'lawful and reasonable' is not what you might believe is 'reasonable', but a legal test of fact.
theheadmaster is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2021, 02:12
  #879 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,528
Likes: 0
Received 266 Likes on 145 Posts
it would be lawful and reasonable for an employer to give their employees a direction to be vaccinated, which is assessed on a case-by-case basis (see Lawful and reasonable directions to get vaccinated).
Considering Pilots, Flight Attendants and Customer Service in Airlines are considered at least tier 2 and possibly tier 1 this statement generally applies.

An employer’s direction to employees performing Tier 1 or Tier 2 work is more likely to be reasonable, given the increased risk of employees being infected with coronavirus, or giving coronavirus to a person who is particularly vulnerable to the health impacts of coronavirus.
Tier 2 would be the minimum as airline employees in customer facing or involved in flight operations can not avoid being in contact with aged or vulnerable unless the airline undertakes not to carry such passengers. It would be easier to require everyone be vaccinated than to discriminate based on age and disability. Aircraft also have limited ingress and egress points and very limited chance for segregation and social distancing, making ruling in favor of mandate almost a certainty.
43Inches is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2021, 02:25
  #880 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Fieldsworthy
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes on 17 Posts
Originally Posted by theheadmaster
You have stated on several posts what you believe are the circumstances an employer can mandate vaccination. To clarify for you and for others that may be confused, the Fair Work website states the following:

Can an employer require an employee to be vaccinated?

Employers can only require their employees to be vaccinated where:See Fair Work web site: https://coronavirus.fairwork.gov.au/...-the-workplace

Note, that there are circumstances other than a health order or employment contract/EA where an employer can mandate vaccination - where it is 'lawful and reasonable'. Note also that 'lawful and reasonable' is not what you might believe is 'reasonable', but a legal test of fact.
Great post. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out though as not everything the gov't mandates is immune to successful legal challenge and the wheels of justice turn slowly most of the time (they certainly will for anyone challenging a health order).

There was an interesting commentary in The Australian today in which was addressed, amongst other things, the fear which has been deliberately sowed in the community to help induce compliance among the masses. Obviously you'd disagree though in that the coercion has not abated with the arrival of vaccines but in fact increased, much to the unbounded joy of so many zealots who are climbing over themselves to do the gov't's dirty work for them:

"Until the arrival of vaccines, governments around the world relied on behavioural psychology to coerce citizens to comply with the most extreme quarantine rules imposed for over a century. The public were fed a non-stop diet of bad news devoid of context. New cases have been highlighted rather than deaths, hospitalisations and recoveries, which would have painted a very different picture of the level of threat. It would no doubt be news to most people that 88% of those who have died of Covid-19 or required acute hospital care suffered from at least one other serious condition and that by far the best predictor of life-threatening infection is obesity. The population-wide strategy pursued in most countries would not have been helped by highlighting these and other facts governments, to varying degrees, have suppressed."


On state handling of the event:

"The elevated level of fear in Australia, even now, is exacerbated by the existence of crisis cabinets and the retention of emergency powers. For most people, the unprecedented use of force by Victorian police is not a sign that freedom is being eroded, but a reminder of how bad the virus must be."


And on the bureaucracy:

"The extraordinary powers given to chief health officers since the start of last year has eroded the authority of parliament, diminished the standing of our state political leaders and devalued democracy. It has delivered the kind of policy blunders that become inevitable when too much power is placed in the hands of a few. We have seen the kind of tin-eared insensitivity to human feelings that results from empowering bureaucrats paid to follow the rule book."


It's a sad day when the average Aussie wholeheartedly jumps on board with this totalitarianism but the vast majority of the masses appear to have played their role to the hilt as evidenced:
If some numbnut submits a fake certificate and then gets kicked out of QF, I will laugh so hard I may actually rupture a blood vessel.
Eclan is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.