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QF mandates Vaccine

Old 6th Sep 2021, 23:44
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https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-in...vaccine-safety

Read that it covers mRNA technology simply and to the point.

Best you don't take any medications if you are worried about long term effects. All medications have side effects, hence why very few are compatible with aviation and driving in general. The Covid Vaccines actually have very mild side effects except for the extremely rare conditions that just about every medicine can invoke in some way. The nature of a medication is it changes something inside you so that it fights the condition/symptoms better than your immune system alone. But this is done by any food you eat or drink also. Anything you consume alters things inside your body in some way. Aspirin causes allergic reaction in 1% of users and up to 30% in asthmatics, but people still use that regularly, it can cause a severe asthma reaction in some people.

But like suicide rates and small businesses failing, no one cares about these things unless they can use these statistics (poorly) in their own selfish argument against something that just needs to be done. Prior to 2020 almost no one gave a dam about the suicide rate, mental health of others and woes of small business, or whether a vaccine gave you a rash except the raging lunatic anti vaxxers.
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Old 7th Sep 2021, 00:03
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I recently went through a year of immunotherapy to treat late stage cancer. First thing they do is sit you down and tell you about this possible side effects, some of which are serious. Did I say yes ? Of course. And it worked.
Love to be a fly on the wall when an antivaxer is told that the only treatment option is immunotherapy.
Their head would explode !
LOL
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 07:40
  #343 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Grumps. I saw your post in the other thread and was amused. Someone else commented to the effect that when you (ie the gent who recently posted a video online explaining his outlook) wear the airline's uniform, you carry the airline's reputation, or something of that nature.

I laughed out loud at that quaint but antiquated notion. Considering the current uniform would fit better as Mr. Ice Cream, the Village People's 7th flouncing member, I'd say the reputation and pilot image is beyond salvaging. That ridiculous get-up, foisted upon the unresisting drivers by the pink element and complete with pink rank bars, is the laughing stock of airports around the world. Nevertheless, our fine captain donned it with pride in his video post and good on him, too.

I applaud his video presentation for the reasons that he stood up for his beliefs and did his own thinking, one way or the other, and, not least, because it has with fantastic simplicity outraged the cowering and spinelessly anonymous, self-centred, virtue-signalling, ovine-minded line-toers in here. With his experience I'd fly as a pax on the good Captain's aircraft any day over that of the rest of you dullards incapable of independent thought (or civil discourse), most of whom are the spiky-haired, magenta-following product of new-age mushroom academies and couldn't point to a DC3, let alone start the engine on one.

Carry on, Captain, and good luck to you. Please post the go-fund-me details so we can contribute to the cause.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 07:41
  #344 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Keg
With effect from when? It’s not at the moment. I know of a nurse working directly with Covid patients who was unvaccinated as at four weeks ago. She’s been 1A since March but ‘wanted to wait and see’.
It's mandatory for all workers in aged care to be fully vaccinated by 15 September. Hospitals will likely follow suit.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 08:02
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Originally Posted by Muttley Crew
Hi Grumps. I saw your post in the other thread and was amused. Someone else commented to the effect that when you (ie the gent who recently posted a video online explaining his outlook) wear the airline's uniform, you carry the airline's reputation, or something of that nature.

I laughed out loud at that quaint but antiquated notion. Considering the current uniform would fit better as Mr. Ice Cream, the Village People's 7th flouncing member, I'd say the reputation and pilot image is beyond salvaging. That ridiculous get-up, foisted upon the unresisting drivers by the pink element and complete with pink rank bars, is the laughing stock of airports around the world. Nevertheless, our fine captain donned it with pride in his video post and good on him, too.

I applaud his video presentation for the reasons that he stood up for his beliefs and did his own thinking, one way or the other, and, not least, because it has with fantastic simplicity outraged the cowering and spinelessly anonymous, self-centred, virtue-signalling, ovine-minded line-toers in here. With his experience I'd fly as a pax on the good Captain's aircraft any day over that of the rest of you dullards incapable of independent thought (or civil discourse), most of whom are the spiky-haired, magenta-following product of new-age mushroom academies and couldn't point to a DC3, let alone start the engine on one.

Carry on, Captain, and good luck to you. Please post the go-fund-me details so we can contribute to the cause.
Quaint? Antiquated ?
Dont think you have had a Command at a major.
No argument about the QF uniform though. Truely dreadful. But the point stands.
When you finish your Command training and the Chief Pilot slides the 4 bars across the desk it is made very clear what is expected.
Forget it at your peril.
And not just at QF either.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 14:15
  #346 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by blubak
Some people prefer to take the opinions of social media influencers who like to post just what will get them some more followers.
I also have had AZ x 2 & the discussion was with my gp.
When i have had surgery i discussed it with a surgeon & he explained the risks & i based my decision on an experts advice.
I wonder how many of these armchair experts who keep popping up ask for a scientific analysis of every medicine or pain killer they have ever taken.
The essence of what annoys me here is that, yes, the process for assessing vaccines has been compressed (no steps skipped, no corners cut, just a stick behind the arse of organizations and departments to accelerate the process)....... BUT, do people really think that anyone who was exposed to cow pox NEVER contracted or had smallpox virus enter their bodies, that those vaccinated against smallpox NEVER were exposed to the disease. As a child I was vaccinated against Poliomyelitis and I traveled all over the world, undoubtedly being exposed to molecules of polio at some stage but I didn't get sick because I WAS VACCINATED.

People going on and on, based on some BS internet sourced moron who if they look a little further than the end of their collective noses, will find has been discredited completely, that "if you're vaccinated, you can still 'catch' Covid19....... YEH, if you're vaccinated against smallpox you can still 'catch' smallpox, the difference is you don't know you have because it does NOTHING.

Ask Bill Maher, he was completely vaccinated, then tested positive for C19, guess what??????? He isolated for 14 days but experienced ZERO symptoms and ZERO damage, etc. to his body. Why???? Because the vaccine ensured his body had immunity.

No one has ever questioned this before until the era of the 'Uber-MORON' Trump, et al who think they know more than people who have spent their entire lives studying immunology - Why???? "Because my Uncle Cletus found a possum trapper on the internet who graduated the Twin Banjos School of Shootin' an' Prayin' who said otherwise.

I AM joking but maybe just open all the Churches and Conspiracy HQ's and let them mingle and meet without masks as often as they like. In the long run it will solve the problem, as society is rid of the moron class who think they know better than experts - like flat-Earthers who promote whack-job BS to support their 'beliefs' (beliefs are not facts) and yet STILL manage to put on their website for their conference in London a couple of years ago "Flat Earthers are not a fringe, they come from all over the GLOBE".

Pardon me, but isn't that akin to the celebrated sign at a 'Tea Party' rally some years ago that proclaimed "Get you Government Hands off my Medicare......."

I'm all for accepting everyone's views and being tolerant but does society really have to slow down to contemplate the 'opinions' of MORONS and stunning examples of intellectual incapacity???????
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 14:24
  #347 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat
Tbh it's probably for the best. As expected he's been stood down and having a thread where everyone is putting the boot in can't be helping someone clearly already suffering a mental health crisis.
Good result in my view. I am totally behind Qantas on this. Airlines and companies are NOT democracies. It amounts to "We pay you a wage and provide you training and a safe workplace if you abide by the conditions we set."

What astounds me is it is no different to someone welcoming a friend to their place for dinner or to clean their house for which they are paid and saying "By the way, while you're here we do not smoke so please do not smoke while you work". Totally reasonable, but all of a sudden it is the big ogre Qantas denying people their 'freedom of choice'.

Newsflash - if you go and work for Gina Reinhardt, the arch capitalist, you don't get to work unless you wear the safety gear they insist on. I don't like her personally but good on her, it's her premises and she has responsibilities to ALL who enter the premises so, so be it.

For some reason "Qantas" and "32 Years Service" are supposed to provide exemptions to the rules. My father worked for more than 32 years for Qantas and he's had both doses of AZ, for him it was a no brainer, if he'd been at QF still he would have done the same, it doesn't mean he didn't stand up against unjust things in his career - difference is, he never was, and still isn't, in his late eighties, mesmerized by some fictitious deity that commands his every move.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 15:48
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective
It amounts to "We pay you a wage and provide you training and a safe workplace if you abide by the conditions we set."
Except, of course, for the past 18 months, you didn’t.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 21:43
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective
Good result in my view. I am totally behind Qantas on this. Airlines and companies are NOT democracies. It amounts to "We pay you a wage and provide you training and a safe workplace if you abide by the conditions we set."

What astounds me is it is no different to someone welcoming a friend to their place for dinner or to clean their house for which they are paid and saying "By the way, while you're here we do not smoke so please do not smoke while you work". Totally reasonable, but all of a sudden it is the big ogre Qantas denying people their 'freedom of choice'.

Newsflash - if you go and work for Gina Reinhardt, the arch capitalist, you don't get to work unless you wear the safety gear they insist on. I don't like her personally but good on her, it's her premises and she has responsibilities to ALL who enter the premises so, so be it.
You make the employers sound benevolent. They’re doing these things because it’s legislated.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 22:11
  #350 (permalink)  
 
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Listened recently to a very interesting interview of Lee McIntyre. He is a Research Fellow at the Center for Philosophy and History of Science at Boston University. He wrote How to talk to a Science Denier: Conversations with flat earthers, climate deniers, and others who defy reason. He goes to 'Flat Earth' conventions and other denier group meetings to try to understand the thought processes of the adherents. (I did laugh when I learned that there are different factions of Flat Earthers, with differing fundamentalist views. One faction considers Australia to be a hoax!)

Turns out that it's an issue of trust. The deniers simply do not trust the sources of any information contrary to their views.

Though I'm not a 'denier' and have been vaxxed for Covid, it is undeniable - pun intended - that there are legions of examples of government 'authorities' spouting bull**** and medical 'studies' that conclude what turns out to be bull****. Trust in the institutions of governments is at an all time low.

Thus, Mr McIntyre's thesis is that the only way to change the beliefs of deniers of anything is NOT to plonk facts in their laps and ask why they are so stupid as to not understand the implications of those facts. Rather, it is to gain their trust - hence the word "conversations" in the name of his book - or gain the trust of people whom the deniers trust, then nudge them with facts that are the most easily demonstrated as being from a trustworthy source. But don't bother wasting your breath citing 'the government' or 'the medical authorities' or 'the scientists' in the abstract.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 22:53
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective

No one has ever questioned this before until the era of the 'Uber-MORON' Trump, et al who think they know more than people who have spent their entire lives studying immunology - Why???? "Because my Uncle Cletus found a possum trapper on the internet who graduated the Twin Banjos School of Shootin' an' Prayin' who said otherwise.
Spot on. This is why you can see a significant portion of the deaths are now hitting the southern parts of the US. This is where the majority of those who aren’t vaccinated live - it’s also scary how that ties in with where Trump support was at its greatest.

Make no mistake - this is about to be a pandemic of the unvaccinated. That is very sad for the minute percentage of people who are unable to be vaccinated because of medical conditions. But for those who chose not to be - well it’s Darwinism at its finest.
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 23:26
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Make no mistake - this is about to be a pandemic of the unvaccinated. That is very sad for the minute percentage of people who are unable to be vaccinated because of medical conditions. But for those who chose not to be - well it’s Darwinism at its finest.
There was an ICU nurse from Idaho expressing her frustration the other day at the amount of patients coming in wanting the vaccine AFTER having contracted covid and it infesting their town. Once people start getting severely ill and die the locals take it seriously, but it's too late as the vaccine lead time is a minimum of 6 weeks from first jab. Unfortunately Trump is very much to blame in these areas, along with the republican leaders towing the line, some of whom have died as well. The other issue is those that get sick tend to go on a self prescribed administration of various quack drugs like ivermectim and hydroxychloroquine, then when they have no effect (as expected by medical science) they then rush to hospital in severe distress.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 00:02
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
Once people start getting severely ill and die the locals take it seriously, but it's too late as the vaccine lead time is a minimum of 6 weeks from first jab. Unfortunately Trump is very much to blame in these areas, along with the republican leaders towing the line, some of whom have died as well. The other issue is those that get sick tend to go on a self prescribed administration of various quack drugs like ivermectim and hydroxychloroquine, then when they have no effect (as expected by medical science) they then rush to hospital in severe distress.
Oh the perils of “groupthink”.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 00:37
  #354 (permalink)  
 
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various quack drugs like ivermectim
Major studies are being conducted now, (I think Oxford is one) which in the preliminary stages are showing promising results. It may end up proving to be a winner, or it may not.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 00:51
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Major studies are being conducted now, (I think Oxford is one) which in the preliminary stages are showing promising results. It may end up proving to be a winner, or it may not.
I very much hope it does, but all the evidence so far points to large dose requirements that pose actual dangers to humans or it has limited use as a prophylactic, that is must be administered before you get any covid. The fact it was removed from treatment advice in India where it was widely used is a pretty big 'against' vote.

PS, The PRINCIPLE studies so far have only found 1 out of 3 tested have had any benefit vs Covid, that one being the Asthma medication, inhaled budesonide, alleviated post covid symptoms and reduced recovery time.

Last edited by 43Inches; 10th Sep 2021 at 01:07.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 01:52
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DON'T READ BETWEEN THE LINES -

At present QF/JQ have stated in their email to staff. Quote: "with a view to having the workgroup fully vaccinated by 15 November"

This is not an instruction or an order.

The company had that email written by their Lawyers, they want as many of you to infer that this is mandatory so that you trot along and VOLUNTARILY get your prick. Any consequential adverse reaction now or in the future is your problem alone.

The company to be able to start disciplinary procedures have give a specific order to you individually, which then would carry liability. The QF group have bullying and intimidation policies and the country has privacy laws on the statute books that protect.

As Morrison stated. It is not unlawful for a company to mandate a vaccine, this may materially change the terms of your EBA. Further it is illegal for a company to discriminate against you for choosing not to be vaccinated and illegal (as the law stands today) for them to terminate you.

The company will apply pressure to you to get you to take this vax voluntarily. If you really don't want this vax, make them order you in writing, outlining consequences, then you have the ammunition you need for the inevitable class action law suits that will be brought. This all comes down to your financial position and the level of stress you are under, to be ale to go into this fight.

Certainly Sept, Oct Nov 2021 are going to be tough, nothing worth fighting for is easy.

Join Telegram Group - Aircrew Against Mandatory Vax for legal tactics and support resources.
https://t.me/joinchat/7upZ9a7Cg3JmMWQ1



Last edited by Senior Pilot; 10th Sep 2021 at 04:28. Reason: Lose the nonsense meme 🤔
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 02:03
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Serious Trump derangement syndrome going on here for which there is unfortunately no vaccine.

Quick reminder, he was vaccinated LONG BEFORE his opposition who were extremely vocal about “NOT EVER GETTING THE TRUMP VACCINE” both Biden and Harris.. and now somehow think otherwise.
Trump has ALWAYS RECOMMENDED getting vaccinated, although believes it is an individuals right to choose.
Operation WARP speed which provided the vaccines you’re pushing came about under his leadership.. the full results we might know in about another three years, so it’s OK to be skeptical and after all, these are the same “experts” who sent millions of US taxpayer dollars to The Wuhan Institute of Virology to study Bat Virus mutations …..full disclosure I’m vaccinated.. but it’s completely reasonable to be distrustful or skeptical.
And lastly..
The US demographic most likely not to get the vaccine are African Americans who are ninety percent democrats.
Having an absolute hatred for someone unfortunately for some, does not change facts.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 02:35
  #358 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
Unfortunately Trump is very much to blame in these areas, along with the republican leaders towing the line, some of whom have died as well.
Flawed commentary.

Trump was vaccinated in January 2021 and has repeatedly told the public to get vaccinated. Even when booed by party faithful at the most recent rallies.
Do you recall what Kamala Harris said in 2020 about the vaccine development.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 02:49
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Aircrew Against Mandatory Vax ………
Wow……
You mean Aircrew for the self-immolation of their careers and financial collapse of QF ?
Amusing on the day Biden announces mandatory vax for Federal Government employees in the US.
Oh well , no more QF to LA I guess ……
Or Singapore……
Or Europe……
Oh well , there’s always Emirates…..


Boy , am I glad I’m retired.
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 02:50
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Originally Posted by VeeoneCUT
DON'T READ BETWEEN THE LINES -

At present QF/JQ have stated in their email to staff. Quote: "with a view to having the workgroup fully vaccinated by 15 November"

This is not an instruction or an order.

The company had that email written by their Lawyers, they want as many of you to infer that this is mandatory so that you trot along and VOLUNTARILY get your prick. Any consequential adverse reaction now or in the future is your problem alone.

The company to be able to start disciplinary procedures have give a specific order to you individually, which then would carry liability. The QF group have bullying and intimidation policies and the country has privacy laws on the statute books that protect.

As Morrison stated. It is not unlawful for a company to mandate a vaccine, this may materially change the terms of your EBA. Further it is illegal for a company to discriminate against you for choosing not to be vaccinated and illegal (as the law stands today) for them to terminate you.

The company will apply pressure to you to get you to take this vax voluntarily. If you really don't want this vax, make them order you in writing, outlining consequences, then you have the ammunition you need for the inevitable class action law suits that will be brought. This all comes down to your financial position and the level of stress you are under, to be ale to go into this fight.

Certainly Sept, Oct Nov 2021 are going to be tough, nothing worth fighting for is easy.

Join Telegram Group - Aircrew Against Mandatory Vax for legal tactics and support resources.
https://t.me/joinchat/7upZ9a7Cg3JmMWQ1
If you are truly concerned about what your rights and obligations are as a Qantas pilot regarding the vaccination policy, please give the legal department of your union a call. I believe the views expressed in the post I have quoted above are misguided.
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