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Old 30th Aug 2020, 16:21
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Originally Posted by Buttscratcher
......and then everyone in Melbourne went to the friggin beach!
Muppets!
Living near the beach, I drive along Beach Road to go shopping.
And yes, most afternoons the bike path and walking track along the beach are crowded while the shopping centre is deserted.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 20:56
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Originally Posted by Buttscratcher
......and then everyone in Melbourne went to the friggin beach!

Muppets!
Rather be a muppet than a Dan Andrews puppet.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 21:04
  #1103 (permalink)  
 
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The opportunity to suppress this virus with social distancing, limiting numbers in groups etc has passed. We had the winter to achieve this and now that the warmer months are coming people will congregate in the masses in the outdoors which could possibly make this virus run out of control up and down the eastern states. I have been informed off a reliable source that the NSW and VIC border will be closed until February so it is time to plan for the future.

The real question that needs to be answered by these premieres that continue to play god for political gain- What is the plan to generate jobs and what is the economic road map? the borders are closed we don't need to hear that every press conference anymore. I want to hear a plan for real action now what are you going to do?!
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 21:12
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
Well there you go, the 17% that don't give a **** about infecting other people and are happy to lie, cheat, abscond, cross a state border and attempt to disappear into the community are exactly that. Criminals on the run.
I was wondering when you would comment on my criminals on the run quote. I set it up so you would answer it with 17% couldn't give a toss, meaning 83% are in favour of lockdowns.
How about we take away their toy? Jobkeeper.
Then 83% would be saying "OPEN THOSE BLOODY BORDERS I GOT A FAMILY TO FEED".
State premiers love power, they eat it night and day. They even supplement with vitamin P.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 21:48
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
You guys can stop blaming our premiers for closed borders, they are doing what we the citizens of the state (83%) want them to do and that's close the borders quarantine the infected.
Medical advice has nothing to do with our borders, we have listened to the arguments and conclude it's still high risk because we know the remaining 17% won't help contain the pandemic, they don't give a ****, if your 17% infects our 17% our state will fall just the same as Victoria.
Before we agree to open our borders one of two things must happen, a vaccine or a quick test similar to the lick drug test that can identify an infected person within minutes.
And what do you foresee happening if neither of those things come to fruition? Just keep the WA border closed for all eternity because that's what 2.2M people want? What about the other 23M Australian citizens? You don't think they should have a say in being able to enter WA? WA residents need to realise they are not their own country - even if they'd like to be - and the Constitution was framed so as to give protection to an individual citizen from protection against a State singling out their residence as grounds for discrimination. Same for trade & commerce.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 21:48
  #1106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ragnor
The opportunity to suppress this virus with social distancing, limiting numbers in groups etc has passed. We had the winter to achieve this and now that the warmer months are coming people will congregate in the masses in the outdoors which could possibly make this virus run out of control up and down the eastern states. I have been informed off a reliable source that the NSW and VIC border will be closed until February so it is time to plan for the future.

The real question that needs to be answered by these premieres that continue to play god for political gain- What is the plan to generate jobs and what is the economic road map? the borders are closed we don't need to hear that every press conference anymore. I want to hear a plan for real action now what are you going to do?!
Funnily enough remember the last few days of last summer when Bondi and Manly beaches were packed lapping up good sun (you know what UVA/UVB does to covid as I expressed before) their was
not one case of transmission, until the Sea Princess docked.
Funnily enough the European summer is about to end and cases flatlined because of the warmth. France, Italy, Germany, Spain their cases will now increase coming into winter. Hope they don't though.
Same can be said for North America. Texas & Florida I can't explain though. US news reports suggest that walking in and out of air condition rooms could be a factor.
From the graphs thus far I find Covid spreads more easily in winter than in summer.

As far as jobs and economic road map, I think Dan will talk to the private sector today. Details to come.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 22:01
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Originally Posted by Turnleft080
I was wondering when you would comment on my criminals on the run quote. I set it up so you would answer it with 17% couldn't give a toss, meaning 83% are in favour of lockdowns.
How about we take away their toy? Jobkeeper.
Then 83% would be saying "OPEN THOSE BLOODY BORDERS I GOT A FAMILY TO FEED".
State premiers love power, they eat it night and day. They even supplement with vitamin P.
Well actually no we won't. The economy in our state is pretty much back to normal. Our covid wards are empty and our reserve staff waiting to be called are still waiting, hopefully we won't need to call upon them. The only ones on jobkeeper are about half the state based airline staff and a significant number of the tourism industry. Otherwise you would'nt know there's a crisis going on. It's really important to us to keep covid out here, we can't depend upon any other state for our essential services, nor can we access them. We are pretty much self contained. We produce everything we need locally To allow covid in would collapse our health system and most likely our essential services as well. we really don't want to end up like Victoria and possibly NSW as well.
The only thing we can't do is travel outside of our state, unless you want to mandatory quarantine at your own expense when you return. We can wait. It's not a big ask. when the quick test arrives we will review our position.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 22:03
  #1108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Buttscratcher
......and then everyone in Melbourne went to the friggin beach!

Muppets!
Same applies to Sydney!,check out the pics of coogee beach on sunday.
Im sure theres plenty of people on the beaches in every state when the sun is out.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 22:29
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Originally Posted by KRviator
And what do you foresee happening if neither of those things come to fruition? Just keep the WA border closed for all eternity because that's what 2.2M people want? What about the other 23M Australian citizens? You don't think they should have a say in being able to enter WA? WA residents need to realise they are not their own country - even if they'd like to be - and the Constitution was framed so as to give protection to an individual citizen from protection against a State singling out their residence as grounds for discrimination. Same for trade & commerce.
Well both of those things will happen, you just need to be patient. Being an Airline discussion it comes as no surprise you think the way you do. A pandemic hasn't happened like this for 100 years, Airlines are the first effected and the last to recover when there's a crisis, an industry hazard. The last 30 years of growth in air travel hasn't happened before either, you have grown up with it, it's natural to think that is forever. Well nothing is forever, airlines will again be deeply impacted by something like this, all it would take is an armed conflict to break out between China and the USA, that would be even worse than a pandemic. One thing is for sure air travel will change one way or another eventually. It's just another issue we can't keep ignoring, like plastics in the ocean.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 22:50
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According to Federal Treasury data, five local governments ó Exmouth, Shark Bay, Dundas, Augusta-Margaret River and Denmark ó had 50 per cent or more businesses apply for the payment.

That was the highest number of all the States and Territories.

Closing the borders totally is a good idea,.....as long as you donít live in those local Govt areas I suppose.

Always has been, and always will be...Western Australia and the rest of Australia. Probably keep the borders closed even when the pandemic is over. Now all they need is their own military, customs, consular, currency, taxation, education welfare system.etc etc
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 22:58
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Originally Posted by Square Bear
According to Federal Treasury data, five local governments — Exmouth, Shark Bay, Dundas, Augusta-Margaret River and Denmark — had 50 per cent or more businesses apply for the payment.

That was the highest number of all the States and Territories.
I'm not surprised. The majority of their tourism income traditionally comes from international and eastern state visitors.

Originally Posted by Square Bear
Always has been, and always will be...Western Australia and the rest of Australia. Probably keep the borders closed even when the pandemic is over. Now all they need is their own military, customs, consular, currency, taxation, education welfare system.etc etc
Just like a bigger version of the Principality of Hutt River!
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 22:59
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Three months since the OP and borders, Tasman included, are still locked up.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 23:01
  #1113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Square Bear
According to Federal Treasury data, five local governments ó Exmouth, Shark Bay, Dundas, Augusta-Margaret River and Denmark ó had 50 per cent or more businesses apply for the payment.

That was the highest number of all the States and Territories.

Closing the borders totally is a good idea,.....as long as you donít live in those local Govt areas I suppose.

Always has been, and always will be...Western Australia and the rest of Australia. Probably keep the borders closed even when the pandemic is over. Now all they need is their own military, customs, consular, currency, taxation, education welfare system.etc etc
Those businesses employ very few people, it's not a major drain. It's not like a manufacturing plant that employs hundreds.

As for our military, well special ops and half the navy is based here, just saying
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 23:17
  #1114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
Well both of those things will happen, you just need to be patient. Being an Airline discussion it comes as no surprise you think the way you do. A pandemic hasn't happened like this for 100 years, Airlines are the first effected and the last to recover when there's a crisis, an industry hazard. The last 30 years of growth in air travel hasn't happened before either, you have grown up with it, it's natural to think that is forever. Well nothing is forever, airlines will again be deeply impacted by something like this, all it would take is an armed conflict to break out between China and the USA, that would be even worse than a pandemic. One thing is for sure air travel will change one way or another eventually. It's just another issue we can't keep ignoring, like plastics in the ocean.
Conveniently didn't answer the question though.

"A vaccine will come, I promise". Standard politician speak.

So I ask again, what do you foresee as happening if a vaccine (or quick test as you said) doesn't become available? Should the desire of those 2.2M people in WA outweigh the wishes - and the constitutional right to not be penalised based on their state of residence - of the other 23 million Australian citizens to keep the WA border closed?

I think the way I do because I look at the big picture. A statistical human live in Australia is valued at $4.6M AUD ($4.2M 2014 adjusted for inflation) Source. The political response to this pandemic, including border closures, lockdowns, etc, has seen a $90 billion turnaround in the budget, from a projected $5B surplus to an $85B deficit and it isn't stopping there. The statistical value of that is nearly 20,000 lives saved, true. But that is only the current cost - not the costs going forwards which I reckon would be an order of magnitude higher. To what end? We lost more people from the common flu last year, and much more again in 2017. Hell, lung cancer kills nearly 9,000 people every year - yet Governments refuse to ban tobacco!

The response to this pandemic needs to be proportional and reasonable, yet a border closure while effective yes, is not the be-all and end-all, for the judge in the recent Palmer v WA trial found other reasonable alternatives exist to a hard border closure. Mandatory hotel quarantine has been found - legally - to present no increase in risk to the current border closure. In WA's case, though, the issue is one of capacity.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 23:25
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WA can stay closed, I would vote to turn off the Fed money they can look after themself. QLD premier just saying now that borders will remain closed she will not be moved she said she wonít worry about the economy until the health of QLD is assured. So she does not give any economic road map out of this or understand that one I needed not even entertaining a balance of learning to live with it. QLD VIC and TAS are really dragging their feet in the sand with this.

I have a genuine fear of what our great country will look like this time next year Aviation aside which by the looks will not be the same by density and by what carriers we have.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 23:30
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[QUOTE=KRviator;10874556]Conveniently didn't answer the question though.

"A vaccine will come, I promise". Standard politician speak.

So I ask again, what do you foresee as happening if a vaccine (or quick test as you said) doesn't become available? Should the desire of those 2.2M people in WA outweigh the wishes - and the constitutional right to not be penalised based on their state of residence - of the other 23 million Australian citizens to keep the WA border closed?[QUOTE]

Then I'll be bold and answer the question. We would continue doing what we are doing, keep the borders closed and find a way to allow easier access to the state without risking exposure to general population, something like inbound services into a central hub like merredin and setup a screening and quarantine operation before allowing travellers to continue into the state. I'm sure it won't come to that though.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 23:33
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Xeptu who will want to come to Australia to have to isolate on a random island and when our own citizens canít travel domestically?
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 23:35
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Originally Posted by Ragnor
WA can stay closed, I would vote to turn off the Fed money they can look after themself. QLD premier just saying now that borders will remain closed she will not be moved she said she wonít worry about the economy until the health of QLD is assured. So she does not give any economic road map out of this or understand that one I needed not even entertaining a balance of learning to live with it. QLD VIC and TAS are really dragging their feet in the sand with this.

I have a genuine fear of what our great country will look like this time next year Aviation aside which by the looks will not be the same by density and by what carriers we have.
We would'nt have any objection to cutting off federal funding all together if it comes to that, so long as you don't expect us to contribute to it either.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 23:39
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Originally Posted by Ragnor
Xeptu who will want to come to Australia to have to isolate on a random island and when our own citizens canít travel domestically?
Unless they plan to stay awhile, probably not many, but then International visitors are out of the question for any state at this point in time.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 23:45
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Originally Posted by Square Bear
According to Federal Treasury data, five local governments — Exmouth, Shark Bay, Dundas, Augusta-Margaret River and Denmark — had 50 per cent or more businesses apply for the payment.

That was the highest number of all the States and Territories.

Closing the borders totally is a good idea,.....as long as you don’t live in those local Govt areas I suppose.

Always has been, and always will be...Western Australia and the rest of Australia. Probably keep the borders closed even when the pandemic is over. Now all they need is their own military, customs, consular, currency, taxation, education welfare system.etc etc
Dundas is an interesting one!
It is great to see % used to make a point! 50% businesses sounds a lot, but the total population of all these places is only around 20,000 people ( I used a near replacement for Dundas). As mentioned tourism is a big part to these places as is backpacker labour.

Denmark had a population of 2,558; however, the population can be several times the base population during tourist seasons.

Denham is the administrative town for the Shire of Shark Bay, Western Australia. At the 2016 census, Denham had a population of 754. Denham survives as the gateway for the tourists who come to see the dolphins at Monkey Mia,

The Shire of Augusta Margaret River had a population of over 14,000 at the 2016 Census, about half of whom live in the towns of Margaret River and Augusta. Margaret River is a small town south of Perth in western Australia, known for its craft breweries, boutiques and surrounding wineries. Beaches and surf breaks line the nearby coast, whose waters host migratory whales.

Dundas is the name of an abandoned town in the Goldfields-Esperance Region of Western Australia. The town is located about 22 kilometres (14 mi) south of Norseman. Norseman is a town located in the Goldfields-Esperance region of Western Australia along the Coolgardie-Esperance Highway, and the last major town in Western Australia before the South Australian border 720 kilometres to the east. At the 2016 census, Norseman had a population of almost 600.

Exmouth is a small resort town on Western Australia’s North West Cape. It’s a gateway to nearby Ningaloo Marine Park with its coral reefs, colourful fish and migratory whale sharks. Nowadays, the town relies more on tourism than the US military station for its existence. At the 2016 census, Exmouth had a population of 2,486. At the height of the tourist season, the population swells to 6,000.
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