HyperMerged: Q Engineering LAME EBA VIII/Industrial Strategies
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: n.s.w
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Headcone and like minded individuals, listen up. Come in,take the money. If short term gain is your agenda, by all means do what you got to do. But the long memories shall endure. Taken a contract out lately out in the big world? Not so big is it. Seems to be QF guys everywhere you go. Weigh it up. Think long and hard. If the dollar signs are still flashing and your conscience isn't causing you any discomfort, do what you have to do. I shall look forward to the beer we have to congratulate you. Go get em' tiger!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Aus Town
Age: 38
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do what you got to do, just don't try and jepodise the current eba. I wasn't around in the time of the Syd HM closure and don't know what happened but if you have been there and know what it feels like regardless why would you have no care in the world for the current LAME's? By not sticking by them isn't that just hypocritical? Punishing others for what past lame's may have done? And altough i do not know the full story i do know that many of the lame that weren't hm did try with that. Like i said you do have to do whatever to get you by but don't take others down just because your living in a past world. Use some empathy, what is being said about well you guys didn't stick by us why should we stick by you that's schoolyard crap and you guys have to be extremely intelligent to do what you do as a profession don't bring the image of lame's down.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree totally NO1. we need to stick together, i am ready for the fight , from what i have heard about the readiness of our foe i am hoefull that we all stick solid, we might slaughter the kiwis in criket , but dont want to loose our jobs to them, i hear some of them have applied for leave without pay from current jobs, its gonna get tough so lets all dig in, the time has comer.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 54
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mite have known the kiwis would come running to jeopardise us! Surprise surprise!!!
As far as a publicity campaign goes, I think the ALAEA should not focus on money at all. The general public would be offside immediately thinking the whole PIA campaign is about money.
The publicity campaign should focus on how Qantas is slowly jeopardising its reputation for safety. The outsourcing of maintenance to questionable MROs, the increased pressure on staff due to excessive workload (due to lack of staff) etc etc.
Get Joe public questioning Qantas's motives......not the engineers motives!
As far as a publicity campaign goes, I think the ALAEA should not focus on money at all. The general public would be offside immediately thinking the whole PIA campaign is about money.
The publicity campaign should focus on how Qantas is slowly jeopardising its reputation for safety. The outsourcing of maintenance to questionable MROs, the increased pressure on staff due to excessive workload (due to lack of staff) etc etc.
Get Joe public questioning Qantas's motives......not the engineers motives!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney
Age: 54
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the 100k for 6 months is if correct is pretty attractive, i had a call from a mate in NZ apparently they are queuing up over there, or so he says , but you never know
Kiwi's coming over here as scabs what a surprise,there's an ANZAC sprite for you,perhaps we can return the favor in the not to distant future
Kiwi's coming over here as scabs what a surprise,there's an ANZAC sprite for you,perhaps we can return the favor in the not to distant future
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For God's sake guys FIGHT SMART. Fight with your head not your heart!
At 100k for 6 months , the strikebreakers will surely come!!
It would be much better for you guys still employed at the Rat if the "strikebreakers" were ex heavy guys sympathetic to the fight and unconcerned about delays.
I don't know what the ALAEA strategy is but you can be sure that QF will come down hard on you otherwise it will open the floodgates company wide. I wouldn't be expecting too much help from the labour federal government either. They'll be looking to flex their muscles and show the public how they can keep the unions under control.
My bet is that after 1 or 2 four hr stop work meetings they'll lock you out and play hard ball. They'll be able to keep the show going to some extent with Jetstar and non union labour. Then they'll ask the new Kevin Rudd to intervene and sort you out.
Personally I don't think that the carrying out the 4 hr stop work meetings and associated disruption will achieve the result.It will only
1) Give QF a reason to lock you out.
2) Alienate the ALAEA from the general public.
3) Give the New labour Government an opportunity to flex their muscles regading the unions.
Hit QF where it hurts.
1) Despatch reliability- Keep doing what your doing (No higher duties, OT etc). There should be an unofficial goal amongst members to drive the despatch reliability down to 50%. That is your new KPI. Lets see how long they can handle that pain for.
2) Forward Bookings - Highly publicise your stop work meetings but cancel them at the last minute. This way you don't get the public too offside, don't give QF a chance to lock you out and don't give the government a chance to intervene on behalf of their mates (you know who that is and its not YOU).
People are going to have to decide if they are really part of the ALAEA. Its the Heroes amongst you that are your worst enemy!! You need to bring them under control or excommunicate them.
Good Luck!!
At 100k for 6 months , the strikebreakers will surely come!!
It would be much better for you guys still employed at the Rat if the "strikebreakers" were ex heavy guys sympathetic to the fight and unconcerned about delays.
I don't know what the ALAEA strategy is but you can be sure that QF will come down hard on you otherwise it will open the floodgates company wide. I wouldn't be expecting too much help from the labour federal government either. They'll be looking to flex their muscles and show the public how they can keep the unions under control.
My bet is that after 1 or 2 four hr stop work meetings they'll lock you out and play hard ball. They'll be able to keep the show going to some extent with Jetstar and non union labour. Then they'll ask the new Kevin Rudd to intervene and sort you out.
Personally I don't think that the carrying out the 4 hr stop work meetings and associated disruption will achieve the result.It will only
1) Give QF a reason to lock you out.
2) Alienate the ALAEA from the general public.
3) Give the New labour Government an opportunity to flex their muscles regading the unions.
Hit QF where it hurts.
1) Despatch reliability- Keep doing what your doing (No higher duties, OT etc). There should be an unofficial goal amongst members to drive the despatch reliability down to 50%. That is your new KPI. Lets see how long they can handle that pain for.
2) Forward Bookings - Highly publicise your stop work meetings but cancel them at the last minute. This way you don't get the public too offside, don't give QF a chance to lock you out and don't give the government a chance to intervene on behalf of their mates (you know who that is and its not YOU).
People are going to have to decide if they are really part of the ALAEA. Its the Heroes amongst you that are your worst enemy!! You need to bring them under control or excommunicate them.
Good Luck!!
Last edited by numbskull; 22nd Dec 2007 at 19:54.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: in a house
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr numbskull, there is some merit in what you say.
Being accurate and particular at the specifics of the job is possibly just as unsettling to the company. Use the manual the way it should have been used.
Being accurate and particular at the specifics of the job is possibly just as unsettling to the company. Use the manual the way it should have been used.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sydney
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would you sell you soul?
A measly $100 000 for six months, I bet you arse is theirs for that period as well!
So is it really that good for unlimited call ins and hours and then tax.
Even if you were a mercenary how does it compare to Malaysia on contract etc, little tax and you can still have a conscience by not f***ing over fair and reasonable claim against a bunch of self serving greedy pigs.
For F sake we want 5% not the bloody world!
Shortsightedness is the weakness of the unintelligent. Think beyond the six months, think is it unreasonable, think not just of your own future even if you can handle being a scab but what damage you may be doing to your friends and families future work!
So is it really that good for unlimited call ins and hours and then tax.
Even if you were a mercenary how does it compare to Malaysia on contract etc, little tax and you can still have a conscience by not f***ing over fair and reasonable claim against a bunch of self serving greedy pigs.
For F sake we want 5% not the bloody world!
Shortsightedness is the weakness of the unintelligent. Think beyond the six months, think is it unreasonable, think not just of your own future even if you can handle being a scab but what damage you may be doing to your friends and families future work!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Kiwi version of the ALAEA has told both QF and our ALAEA that NONE of their members will be scabbing in Aus.
ALL I CAN SAY IS GOD HELP THOSE THAT DO
because this little black duck will not be treading lightly, you fk up on my watch and I'll bury them and their licence
ALL I CAN SAY IS GOD HELP THOSE THAT DO
because this little black duck will not be treading lightly, you fk up on my watch and I'll bury them and their licence
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: A Happy Place
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Headcone, maybe you aren't Bruce, just some other deluded fool.
Pull your head in. We supported you as much as our corrupt union of the time would allow us. If we had done any form of industrial action we would be out there with you right now as our 'union' failed to even approach the IR commision with regard to any form of industrial action.
Get your facts straight, and if you come in and SCAB, which is exactly what you'll be doing, you will find $100k will not be close to enough for what you will endure.
If you are looking for someone to throw blame at, look at your hero mates from HM who helped set up the 'overflow' facility. the writing was on the wall the moment Avalon opened. We were discussing the demise of SydHM all around the country 3 years before it happened, you just couldn't see past your blinkers !
And if you are considering scabbing go read a few stories from the british miners strike and the australian dock dispute about what happened to scabs after the dispute ended....it ain't pretty......families broke up over the stress !!
$100k to risk your family life......not worth it !
Besides, if you need money, go work for J* or VB, they pay way more than QF and it'll last for years !!
Pull your head in. We supported you as much as our corrupt union of the time would allow us. If we had done any form of industrial action we would be out there with you right now as our 'union' failed to even approach the IR commision with regard to any form of industrial action.
Get your facts straight, and if you come in and SCAB, which is exactly what you'll be doing, you will find $100k will not be close to enough for what you will endure.
If you are looking for someone to throw blame at, look at your hero mates from HM who helped set up the 'overflow' facility. the writing was on the wall the moment Avalon opened. We were discussing the demise of SydHM all around the country 3 years before it happened, you just couldn't see past your blinkers !
And if you are considering scabbing go read a few stories from the british miners strike and the australian dock dispute about what happened to scabs after the dispute ended....it ain't pretty......families broke up over the stress !!
$100k to risk your family life......not worth it !
Besides, if you need money, go work for J* or VB, they pay way more than QF and it'll last for years !!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: A Happy Place
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"My bet is that after 1 or 2 four hr stop work meetings they'll lock you out and play hard ball."
BIG NOTE TO MR PURVINAS......
Don't be surprised if they do it after 1 stop work. Stop work meetings will play into their hands. Please DON'T use them....use DR&R's as our main weapon. We can win this with minimal financial pain if we are strong. Given current levels of debt, if we get locked out people will cave within days and find themselves on AWA's if they want their jobs back.
By all means schedule meetings....then cancel them. They will probably pull out the pilot's strike handbook and given ANY excuse we will all be out the gate......doubt me.....then why are the press ALREADY comparing the impact to the pilot's strike ?
Legally sit the planes on the deck with a mountain of defects. If we are smart we could have half the fleet stuck around australia in days given their current condition.
OH, and don't forget the 5S strategies.......correct me if I'm wrong as I am known to be forgetful.....
...if it's an A check make sure you do a D check inspection........or something like that.......
Our motto for this PIA should be "Inside the gate we WILL win, outside the gate we HAVE lost"
BIG NOTE TO MR PURVINAS......
Don't be surprised if they do it after 1 stop work. Stop work meetings will play into their hands. Please DON'T use them....use DR&R's as our main weapon. We can win this with minimal financial pain if we are strong. Given current levels of debt, if we get locked out people will cave within days and find themselves on AWA's if they want their jobs back.
By all means schedule meetings....then cancel them. They will probably pull out the pilot's strike handbook and given ANY excuse we will all be out the gate......doubt me.....then why are the press ALREADY comparing the impact to the pilot's strike ?
Legally sit the planes on the deck with a mountain of defects. If we are smart we could have half the fleet stuck around australia in days given their current condition.
OH, and don't forget the 5S strategies.......correct me if I'm wrong as I am known to be forgetful.....
...if it's an A check make sure you do a D check inspection........or something like that.......
Our motto for this PIA should be "Inside the gate we WILL win, outside the gate we HAVE lost"
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: A Happy Place
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's an idea....
get your selves to an internet cafe and start filling in this page at least a hundred times........and try to make it believable...........give them a moountain of work to try and find real candidates.....
http://www.resumedomain.com/displayad.asp?adcode=C8278
get your selves to an internet cafe and start filling in this page at least a hundred times........and try to make it believable...........give them a moountain of work to try and find real candidates.....
http://www.resumedomain.com/displayad.asp?adcode=C8278
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good idea sickofqf , apparently they are saying that their client is not QANTAS, given they have started in november i just hope that we have a clear plan of Action , as someone said earlier we do not want to be locked out and...... you can bet your bottom dollar that if we are then it could be all over
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just “take 5” and think about this.
If QF want to get some casual LAMEs in to take up the extra work that the OT bans would cause, where are these guys going to come from? The most likely source is ex Qantas HM LAMEs. But haven’t these guys moved on and got new lives and new careers? So I suggest that the few they do attract would not be sufficient to make any sizable impact.
I’m reading on this site that the Kiwis are coming. Well if that is true they sure won’t be certifying anything. They would all have to go through the tech school for some CAR214 training first to cover ANZ/QF differences. Then there is QF docs and procs, access to IMSP, ASIC passes, just to name a few hurdles. No A330 LAMEs in NZ! Or ZX series 767. B744ER- no way.
I’m also reading here about 4 hr stop work meetings. As another poster said, if you are going to have them then make ‘em count.
But most importantly, don’t forget what this is all about. There is a lot of pent up frustration amongst the QF LAMEs over what is perceived to be the eroding of QF engineering by M and DC. But the justification for this up coming industrial action is to advance the EBA negotiations. Stay focused on the EBA issues- the part time and casual employment clauses that will have a huge impact on the future of employment, the Heavy Maint flexibility clauses, the XPT clause, the quotas, and of course the 3%. But don’t get dragged in to the other emotional issues- these will only cloud the industrial action.
We are our own worst enemies. We must maintain a united front and stay focused on the EBA. Do not be swayed by management spin.
If QF want to get some casual LAMEs in to take up the extra work that the OT bans would cause, where are these guys going to come from? The most likely source is ex Qantas HM LAMEs. But haven’t these guys moved on and got new lives and new careers? So I suggest that the few they do attract would not be sufficient to make any sizable impact.
I’m reading on this site that the Kiwis are coming. Well if that is true they sure won’t be certifying anything. They would all have to go through the tech school for some CAR214 training first to cover ANZ/QF differences. Then there is QF docs and procs, access to IMSP, ASIC passes, just to name a few hurdles. No A330 LAMEs in NZ! Or ZX series 767. B744ER- no way.
I’m also reading here about 4 hr stop work meetings. As another poster said, if you are going to have them then make ‘em count.
But most importantly, don’t forget what this is all about. There is a lot of pent up frustration amongst the QF LAMEs over what is perceived to be the eroding of QF engineering by M and DC. But the justification for this up coming industrial action is to advance the EBA negotiations. Stay focused on the EBA issues- the part time and casual employment clauses that will have a huge impact on the future of employment, the Heavy Maint flexibility clauses, the XPT clause, the quotas, and of course the 3%. But don’t get dragged in to the other emotional issues- these will only cloud the industrial action.
We are our own worst enemies. We must maintain a united front and stay focused on the EBA. Do not be swayed by management spin.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: A Happy Place
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No their client is probably someone else,
like Atwell Engineering or Big Kev's Maintenance Manpower Supply......get the idea !! Simply a front who can go broke immediatly the dispute is over and not pay the rest of the contract.
Who the heck else would pay $100k for 6 months.......??
I know if I was daft enough to want to scab, I'd be demanding the cash up-front...........I can see the headline now.....
"Strike Breaking Employment Agency goes bankrupt, scabs owed thousands"
Not THAT would make me chuckle.........
like Atwell Engineering or Big Kev's Maintenance Manpower Supply......get the idea !! Simply a front who can go broke immediatly the dispute is over and not pay the rest of the contract.
Who the heck else would pay $100k for 6 months.......??
I know if I was daft enough to want to scab, I'd be demanding the cash up-front...........I can see the headline now.....
"Strike Breaking Employment Agency goes bankrupt, scabs owed thousands"
Not THAT would make me chuckle.........