HyperMerged: Q Engineering LAME EBA VIII/Industrial Strategies
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To make my previous post a little clearer for the dummies, 5% is not the only issue.
There is also the complete lack of regard for the great reputation that Qantas once enjoyed. The company is being stripped of this reputation through the pure greed of those that run the joint. The fleet is no longer fastidiously maintained as it once was. There is not enough manpower available to complete checks in the required time so heavy checks are off shored to questionable providers. People are leaving in droves.... they are not being replaced!
One obvious solution to the above crisis is to STOP the oscene greed of upper management and start paying the employees a FAIR and attractive wage to stop people leaving, attract more engineers and in turn, prevent the nesecity to offshore to questionable providers.
Makes no sense to you PAF? Then go fly Garuda or other such airlines. You deserve them.
There is also the complete lack of regard for the great reputation that Qantas once enjoyed. The company is being stripped of this reputation through the pure greed of those that run the joint. The fleet is no longer fastidiously maintained as it once was. There is not enough manpower available to complete checks in the required time so heavy checks are off shored to questionable providers. People are leaving in droves.... they are not being replaced!
One obvious solution to the above crisis is to STOP the oscene greed of upper management and start paying the employees a FAIR and attractive wage to stop people leaving, attract more engineers and in turn, prevent the nesecity to offshore to questionable providers.
Makes no sense to you PAF? Then go fly Garuda or other such airlines. You deserve them.
Last edited by NAS1801; 23rd Dec 2007 at 10:45.
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Patience is a virtue the bans may take a little while before the wheels fall off.
Going out on the grass for any length of time will give the company ammunition to go to the media with an oh my god look what they're doing to us.
Just sit tight support the union and trust them.
Don't under estimate what a bungling bunch of idiots DC and Ms team is.
Even if we don't get our 5% we may be able to rid ourselves of some of these clowns.
As for strike breakers how many Captains will accept aircraft signed off with questionable fixes by people who are just here for a quick buck.
Tech crews may not be concerned with our problems but they have a vested interest in getting to their destination safely and legally.
I'm sure if any of these these strike breakers step over the line there will be plenty of people willing to report it.
Also if we break the 3% cap then other unions will be able to do the same so we may get a lot more help from other QF workers than we think.
Going out on the grass for any length of time will give the company ammunition to go to the media with an oh my god look what they're doing to us.
Just sit tight support the union and trust them.
Don't under estimate what a bungling bunch of idiots DC and Ms team is.
Even if we don't get our 5% we may be able to rid ourselves of some of these clowns.
As for strike breakers how many Captains will accept aircraft signed off with questionable fixes by people who are just here for a quick buck.
Tech crews may not be concerned with our problems but they have a vested interest in getting to their destination safely and legally.
I'm sure if any of these these strike breakers step over the line there will be plenty of people willing to report it.
Also if we break the 3% cap then other unions will be able to do the same so we may get a lot more help from other QF workers than we think.
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Does anyone know more.....
Has anyone heard of any major ads back in August/September, can anyone shed some shed some light on this, have heard that their was a major size ads in Hong Kong, and NZ ,this is second had info but reliable from an expat in HK who is Tech,
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If the union push for a headline 5% this will not happen the company to save face will give 3% plus bonus on the side hopefully extra points ect.
so if pride does not come in to it we can comprise but if we seek to pressure the company into 5% they will try to f@@@ us hard as an example, also the labor goverment is trying to prevent an inflation outbreak the last thing they want is a union campaine to drive up wages.
we are pis@@ off over the way management has run engineering however if we show senior management that we care about the company more than these bad managers they might replace them with better ones, because in the heat of battle lets rember where our paycheck comes from.
so if pride does not come in to it we can comprise but if we seek to pressure the company into 5% they will try to f@@@ us hard as an example, also the labor goverment is trying to prevent an inflation outbreak the last thing they want is a union campaine to drive up wages.
we are pis@@ off over the way management has run engineering however if we show senior management that we care about the company more than these bad managers they might replace them with better ones, because in the heat of battle lets rember where our paycheck comes from.
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Where has PAF gone...
back to his management hole perhaps.
Out of touch with reality imo.
back to his management hole perhaps.
Out of touch with reality imo.
The company seems very serious about organising these "strike breakers" (although I do believe the idea of strike action has neither been entertained or mentioned, so the headlines in the tabloids are spurious at best) but how many LAMEs do you think they can rustle up?
Boys and girls strap yourselves in, it's going to be one hell of a start to 2008.
Just remember work to rule works both ways, be carefull out there.
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Strikebreakers Could Allegedly Break Strike
In todays Sydney Morning Herald...........
Qantas seeks overseas help with strike threat
Scott Rochfort
December 24, 2007
QANTAS has become so desperate to recruit strikebreakers to ward off industrial action by its aircraft engineers that it has asked Air New Zealand and even the 400 engineers it made redundant last year for help.
Faced with work stoppages by its 1700 engineers from January 9, which are set to cripple operations, Qantas has attempted to lure back former engineering staff who took redundancies when it closed its Sydney 747 heavy maintenance base in May last year.
"The money being offered is nearly double what they were paid previously," said one engineer, who asked not to be named.
Qantas's head of people, Kevin Brown, declined to comment on the speculation. But he said the airline was "pursuing a variety of arrangements … [to] ensure our passengers can book with confidence through January".
In a move set to further inflame tensions, the airline has gone across the Tasman for help.
"Air New Zealand came to us and told us they had had been approached by Qantas and if our members would be interested," Andrew Little, the national secretary of the New Zealand Engineering Printing and Manufacturing Union, said.
Mr Little said it was unlikely the licensed aircraft maintenance engineers - LAMEs - at Air New Zealand would want to help out.
"Our members will not be playing any role," he said. "We're 100 per cent unionised over here."
But it is understood Qantas has had better luck signing up some of the licensed engineers Air New Zealand made redundant last year. The airline's attempts to raise a workforce of temporary engineers follows the breakdown of 13-month-old enterprise bargaining talks with the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association.
The union has demanded a 5 per cent annual pay rise for its members, compared to Qantas's 3 per cent offer.
"We think our 5 per cent is not only reasonable but something that all people in the company should be taking," said the ALAEA's federal president, Paul Cousins, in a dig at the large salary increases Qantas executives have enjoyed in recent years.
Qantas's executive general manager of engineering, David Cox, for example, saw his pay packet increase 50 per cent to $1.89 million last financial year.
The association was given the green light to start four-hour stoppages against Qantas last Friday, when 87 per cent of its members voted in favour of industrial action. This could represent the biggest disruption to air travel in Australia since the 1989 pilots dispute which grounded the domestic market for months. Qantas jets can only take off once they have been cleared by a licensed engineer.
The problem for Qantas is that even without strike action, it has become difficult to find trained engineers. Those who are brought in from overseas also need to go through an exhaustive accreditation process with the Civil Air Safety Authority.
The last chance for Qantas to avoid strike action will come on January 4, when it resumes talks with the ALAEA. But the union has insisted it will not compromise its claim for a pay rise, making the chances of an agreement more remote. "It's never been an ambit claim," Mr Cousins said.
Good luck with your eba guys.........Go for it
Memo to Kevin Brown.... you are head of people.......try acting like one for a change
Qantas seeks overseas help with strike threat
Scott Rochfort
December 24, 2007
QANTAS has become so desperate to recruit strikebreakers to ward off industrial action by its aircraft engineers that it has asked Air New Zealand and even the 400 engineers it made redundant last year for help.
Faced with work stoppages by its 1700 engineers from January 9, which are set to cripple operations, Qantas has attempted to lure back former engineering staff who took redundancies when it closed its Sydney 747 heavy maintenance base in May last year.
"The money being offered is nearly double what they were paid previously," said one engineer, who asked not to be named.
Qantas's head of people, Kevin Brown, declined to comment on the speculation. But he said the airline was "pursuing a variety of arrangements … [to] ensure our passengers can book with confidence through January".
In a move set to further inflame tensions, the airline has gone across the Tasman for help.
"Air New Zealand came to us and told us they had had been approached by Qantas and if our members would be interested," Andrew Little, the national secretary of the New Zealand Engineering Printing and Manufacturing Union, said.
Mr Little said it was unlikely the licensed aircraft maintenance engineers - LAMEs - at Air New Zealand would want to help out.
"Our members will not be playing any role," he said. "We're 100 per cent unionised over here."
But it is understood Qantas has had better luck signing up some of the licensed engineers Air New Zealand made redundant last year. The airline's attempts to raise a workforce of temporary engineers follows the breakdown of 13-month-old enterprise bargaining talks with the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association.
The union has demanded a 5 per cent annual pay rise for its members, compared to Qantas's 3 per cent offer.
"We think our 5 per cent is not only reasonable but something that all people in the company should be taking," said the ALAEA's federal president, Paul Cousins, in a dig at the large salary increases Qantas executives have enjoyed in recent years.
Qantas's executive general manager of engineering, David Cox, for example, saw his pay packet increase 50 per cent to $1.89 million last financial year.
The association was given the green light to start four-hour stoppages against Qantas last Friday, when 87 per cent of its members voted in favour of industrial action. This could represent the biggest disruption to air travel in Australia since the 1989 pilots dispute which grounded the domestic market for months. Qantas jets can only take off once they have been cleared by a licensed engineer.
The problem for Qantas is that even without strike action, it has become difficult to find trained engineers. Those who are brought in from overseas also need to go through an exhaustive accreditation process with the Civil Air Safety Authority.
The last chance for Qantas to avoid strike action will come on January 4, when it resumes talks with the ALAEA. But the union has insisted it will not compromise its claim for a pay rise, making the chances of an agreement more remote. "It's never been an ambit claim," Mr Cousins said.
Good luck with your eba guys.........Go for it
Memo to Kevin Brown.... you are head of people.......try acting like one for a change
Last edited by Shlonghaul; 24th Dec 2007 at 00:41.
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whilst this pia is underway your shiny bird will be maintained to within an inch of its life capt,thats not to say it isnt already but just to reassure yourself and other techs and cc.
hopefully you will enjoy m.e.l free aircraft,but if you notice anything and i mean anything on your walkaround please inform your lame, as he will be in no doubt in a mood to rectify and aquite your concerns.
hopefully you will enjoy m.e.l free aircraft,but if you notice anything and i mean anything on your walkaround please inform your lame, as he will be in no doubt in a mood to rectify and aquite your concerns.
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To Mr Little and the NZ Engineers, I SALUTE YOU !!!!
To the Sydney Heavy LAMEs who told them to shove their 100k, I SALUTE YOU !!!!
To all those that have supported our cause, both from within and without, I SALUTE YOU !!!!
To the Sydney Heavy LAMEs who told them to shove their 100k, I SALUTE YOU !!!!
To all those that have supported our cause, both from within and without, I SALUTE YOU !!!!
JANUARY 4
QANTAS' D DAY
ENGINEERS' SAY
"YOU BRING THE PAY OR THERE"LL BE NO PLAY"
Ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight
QANTAS' D DAY
ENGINEERS' SAY
"YOU BRING THE PAY OR THERE"LL BE NO PLAY"
Ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight
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Company spy
I hope your "Ex roo" mates are
not going to take up these positions!!!!
Let us not forget what they are to be used for.
I would suggest they go and rewatch Basterd Boys
I hope your "Ex roo" mates are
not going to take up these positions!!!!
Let us not forget what they are to be used for.
I would suggest they go and rewatch Basterd Boys
If I can give a little advice, since I don't like what Qantas has done to you guys one bit....
1. Firstly anything they DON'T pay you is pure profit - straight to the bottom line.
Thats why they DELAY things as long as possible. Whoever is running QF's negotiating strategy will no doubt be congratulated for making the company
3% x average LAME monthly wage x number of LAME's x 12 months = a handy chunk of money, work it out yourselves. Thats what its cost you to negotiate for 12 months.
So rule #1 is no more delay and don't let them "phase in" pay increases either.
2. Please, please! Get professional help with your PR and do it real quick like yesterday! Mr. Purvinas came over all right on ABC radio today, but as the prospect of strike action gets closer, Qantas will increase the PR pressure, painting you as un australian, greedy neanderthals.
You need to get your argument down to a ten second sound bite and repeat it all the time every time. It will help, blunt the Qantas media onslaught. Personally, I would be sending the public a safety message, the average punter still thinks Qantas has a great safety record because of you guys.
Unless Qantas is silly enough to get out masked goons with Rottwielers, you are not going to get much sympathy from the public. Your will be successful in my opinion if you can just get them to remain neutral.
3. For Christ sake, if you aren't already in dialogue with the ACTU, then get connected. Get connected with the Government as well if possible. The obvious Qantas tactic will be to get the usual suspects (eg the Institute of Public Affairs, plus Brendan Nelson) to claim the the Rudd Government really is going "soft on unions" and that the ACTU has their hand up his backside.
Remember that it was a Hawke Labor Government that broke the pilots union. Do NOT back the Rudd Government into a corner by doing anything really provocative, although the company will do its best to make that happen. If Rudd is backed into a corner, there is a possibility that he will thump you to prove his credentials.
My advice to you is that if delays are impacting the travelling public, then suggest to the Government that the best way to help the public is to temporarily let more international flights in, let them carry domestic pax as well etc. Talk to Singapore Airlines. That would set GD's hair on fire.
4. Just remember that you are dealing with a lieing, cheating pack of thugs led by someone whose eye is on maximising his income for his forthcoming retirement.
They will try and portray themselves as honest people negotiating in good faith but being frustrated by a rotten and unreasonable bunch of thugs in the ALAEA. Its your job to show to the public exactly what creeps Qantas management is.
It was nauseating reading some of the postings by your former union exec's about how gentlemanly and professional their negotiations were, you want to "negotiate" like the proverbial junkyard dog. Stuff the niceties, they will try and get you to make concessions to show your "Good Faith" (an old trick). If they do that, then immediately ask for a similar sized concession in return, but I hope your reps have gone to the Union negotiating school.
Good luck and merry Christmas.
P.S. Don't listen to the likes of PAF, he is a hypocrit who has no knowledge of what he speaks.
1. Firstly anything they DON'T pay you is pure profit - straight to the bottom line.
Thats why they DELAY things as long as possible. Whoever is running QF's negotiating strategy will no doubt be congratulated for making the company
3% x average LAME monthly wage x number of LAME's x 12 months = a handy chunk of money, work it out yourselves. Thats what its cost you to negotiate for 12 months.
So rule #1 is no more delay and don't let them "phase in" pay increases either.
2. Please, please! Get professional help with your PR and do it real quick like yesterday! Mr. Purvinas came over all right on ABC radio today, but as the prospect of strike action gets closer, Qantas will increase the PR pressure, painting you as un australian, greedy neanderthals.
You need to get your argument down to a ten second sound bite and repeat it all the time every time. It will help, blunt the Qantas media onslaught. Personally, I would be sending the public a safety message, the average punter still thinks Qantas has a great safety record because of you guys.
Unless Qantas is silly enough to get out masked goons with Rottwielers, you are not going to get much sympathy from the public. Your will be successful in my opinion if you can just get them to remain neutral.
3. For Christ sake, if you aren't already in dialogue with the ACTU, then get connected. Get connected with the Government as well if possible. The obvious Qantas tactic will be to get the usual suspects (eg the Institute of Public Affairs, plus Brendan Nelson) to claim the the Rudd Government really is going "soft on unions" and that the ACTU has their hand up his backside.
Remember that it was a Hawke Labor Government that broke the pilots union. Do NOT back the Rudd Government into a corner by doing anything really provocative, although the company will do its best to make that happen. If Rudd is backed into a corner, there is a possibility that he will thump you to prove his credentials.
My advice to you is that if delays are impacting the travelling public, then suggest to the Government that the best way to help the public is to temporarily let more international flights in, let them carry domestic pax as well etc. Talk to Singapore Airlines. That would set GD's hair on fire.
4. Just remember that you are dealing with a lieing, cheating pack of thugs led by someone whose eye is on maximising his income for his forthcoming retirement.
They will try and portray themselves as honest people negotiating in good faith but being frustrated by a rotten and unreasonable bunch of thugs in the ALAEA. Its your job to show to the public exactly what creeps Qantas management is.
It was nauseating reading some of the postings by your former union exec's about how gentlemanly and professional their negotiations were, you want to "negotiate" like the proverbial junkyard dog. Stuff the niceties, they will try and get you to make concessions to show your "Good Faith" (an old trick). If they do that, then immediately ask for a similar sized concession in return, but I hope your reps have gone to the Union negotiating school.
Good luck and merry Christmas.
P.S. Don't listen to the likes of PAF, he is a hypocrit who has no knowledge of what he speaks.
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PAF,I doubt whether you are even qualified in an aviation related field,and that you are most likely some office clerk who has been given the task of starting fires amongst engineers,pilots and cabin crew,for the management.Wish I had a job like that.Imagine being paid to work 9-5,have weekends and public holidays off,sit in an airconditioned office,and still get paid to post on PPRUNE.
Now that is a great job.....
As for the proposed strike breakers,they must have rocks in their heads if they think $100K for six months is worth the six months of living in hotels,being driven to work from undisclosed locations,and most likely not being allowed to tell anyone outside of work that you are part of a strike breaking workforce.Yeah that is money earned easily,I dont think....
At this point in time,I am not overly concerned about what will happen after jan 9,because at this point in time the ALAEA has conducted a well organised and legal campaign.They have followed what the legislation has asked,and this is the result.
Well done boys and girls.
Lets just see what the wind blows in a weeks time.......Remember a week is a long time in politics.
Now that is a great job.....
As for the proposed strike breakers,they must have rocks in their heads if they think $100K for six months is worth the six months of living in hotels,being driven to work from undisclosed locations,and most likely not being allowed to tell anyone outside of work that you are part of a strike breaking workforce.Yeah that is money earned easily,I dont think....
At this point in time,I am not overly concerned about what will happen after jan 9,because at this point in time the ALAEA has conducted a well organised and legal campaign.They have followed what the legislation has asked,and this is the result.
Well done boys and girls.
Lets just see what the wind blows in a weeks time.......Remember a week is a long time in politics.
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Resume.domain are already paying their strikebreakers.
I now believe that QF will deliberately engineer an escalation of the situation to test the resolve of members and force LAMES to takes sides. I believe they are well down the path of planning for this.
My prediction is that they will pick on someone who has made any breach of policy and procedure and stand them down.
The association will then call a stop work meeting and chaos will follow.
Qantas will cry that "the evil unions are trying to bully us and hold our business to ransom. They are selfish and have no regard for the travelling public. Blaa blaa blaa".
The next shift will find their ASICS no longer get them through the gate and that a workforce of strikebreakers will be bussed in to fill the breach.
Qantas will implore the Labour government to intervene. The new government will be keen to show that they can stand up to the unions (and won't want to set a precedent which causes a wages blow out which in turn will cause higher inflation/interest rates).
Qantas will keep the LAMES locked out until such time as the Government can force the ALAEA to eat their s@#t sandwich.
Gees I hope it doesn't happen like this!!!
Don't give them any reason to stand you down. Follow policy and procedures to the letter.
I have met with Resume.Domain. They are willing to sign people (and pay) immediately.
Unfortunately I won't be joining them.
Good Luck!!
I now believe that QF will deliberately engineer an escalation of the situation to test the resolve of members and force LAMES to takes sides. I believe they are well down the path of planning for this.
My prediction is that they will pick on someone who has made any breach of policy and procedure and stand them down.
The association will then call a stop work meeting and chaos will follow.
Qantas will cry that "the evil unions are trying to bully us and hold our business to ransom. They are selfish and have no regard for the travelling public. Blaa blaa blaa".
The next shift will find their ASICS no longer get them through the gate and that a workforce of strikebreakers will be bussed in to fill the breach.
Qantas will implore the Labour government to intervene. The new government will be keen to show that they can stand up to the unions (and won't want to set a precedent which causes a wages blow out which in turn will cause higher inflation/interest rates).
Qantas will keep the LAMES locked out until such time as the Government can force the ALAEA to eat their s@#t sandwich.
Gees I hope it doesn't happen like this!!!
Don't give them any reason to stand you down. Follow policy and procedures to the letter.
I have met with Resume.Domain. They are willing to sign people (and pay) immediately.
Unfortunately I won't be joining them.
Good Luck!!
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So Wingers & Numbskull,where is this www.resumedomain.com ?
All I see is a resume writing service.If you know their correct website,why not publish it.Otherwise,give it a break as someone may mistake you for a stooge.
Maybe the joke is that we will all be updating our resumes come late January......lol
All I see is a resume writing service.If you know their correct website,why not publish it.Otherwise,give it a break as someone may mistake you for a stooge.
Maybe the joke is that we will all be updating our resumes come late January......lol
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So Wingers & Numbskull,where is this www.resumedomain.com ?
All I see is a resume writing service.If you know their correct website,why not publish it.Otherwise,give it a break as someone may mistake you for a stooge.
Maybe the joke is that we will all be updating our resumes come late January......lol
All I see is a resume writing service.If you know their correct website,why not publish it.Otherwise,give it a break as someone may mistake you for a stooge.
Maybe the joke is that we will all be updating our resumes come late January......lol
http://www.resumedomain.com
Job Code C8278