Southampton-3

[willy wombat]

Nope, Loganair also needs the leisure market and must offer higher fares to make multiple daily frequencies work on a smaller aircraft. They will likely lose enough volume to easyJet to tip the operation into the red and that will be the end of that. This isn't a market that's about to explode in volume IMHO.

Someone actually knew what he/she was talking about.

[SWBKCB]

If they are filling planes then why stop?

Are they filling planes, and at what price? Maybe a chance for them to stick their prices up? :E

[RW20]

So that's one flight per day compared to three or four. Terrible for connectivity- so many business travellers used those Loganair SOU-GLA flights (including myself).
I'm seeing this as a blow for SOU and the region. That's not me being anti-SOU or negative, but as someone who lives locally and travels a lot I'll really miss the option of business-friendly flights from SOU to GLA and I think others will too.
Its a blow that was predicted ,one flight a day from Easy will not cut it with business travellers . What happens if Easy pull out?SOU have bent over backwards to attract Easy in ,Its time for more Easy routes to prove it was right.

[GayFriendly]

I think the days of multi times daily regional flying in the UK are mostly over. Like SOU, BHX once boasted multiple daily, business friendly frequencies with BE: 8 a day to GLA, EDI, twice daily MXP, BER, 4 times daily to DUS, daily LYS.....these ex BE routes are now all served (except DUS) by EZY but at very much reduced frequency, and in the case if GLA and EDI, sometimes just a flight a day! It's tough to fill an A320 on a daily basis on such routes.

DUS is operated by EW at twice daily, the frequency they operated alongside BE - from 6 flights a day Mon-Fri to 2 - another good example of an Airbus operator at BHX matching frequency to demand

If EZY do come to SOU with a base, you will for sure get new routes but at a 2 or 3 times weekly service. It's either that or no service at all

The big difference with BHX of course is that we have Jet2, FR and TUI who, with EZY now added into the mix, provide a decent frequency of service combined between them on key routes. SOU won't have this with just EZY and am sure nobody wants the all eggs in one basket scenario at SOU again.....but without EZY, what for SOU?

[SouthernAlliance]

The airport are certainly ramping up easyJet coverage across their SM platforms, not before time!

[VickersVicount]

Wonder if theres an AGS GLA-SOU-EZY love triangle?

[LTNman]

What happened at Southend regarding EasyJet domestic services from that airport is a concern despite being regarded as having good loads at the time.

[Albert Hall]

It is a huge concern but now the worry expressed by many (and I was amongst them) has materialised, the airport has no choice but to pursue easyJet to the far ends of the earth for growth on Glasgow. And given that they own both airports, they should be placed to really make this happen.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Someone actually knew what he/she was talking about.
I'd rather have been wrong but all the eggs are goin' in the orange basket who now have SOU by the balls.

[darren1]

When the orange bubble bursts the airport will be left with nothing.

[Sotonsean]

When the orange bubble bursts the airport will be left with nothing.

Easyjet operate 6 routes out of 20 destinations that are currently served from SOU.

Easyjet will soon be the only airline operating from GLA to SOU.

Easyjet for summer 2024 only compete on Faro and Palma from SOU and to a certain extent with BFS.

Easyjet are one of 9 airlines currently serving SOU.

Easyjet has been successfully operating since it was founded in 1995.

There is the demand from SOU to GLA as well as EDI.

In what way are you describing "When the orange bubble bursts"?

Are you describing the collapse of easyjet itself or if the airline ceased operations at SOU.

Either way you're statement is ridiculous.

If by any chance easyjet abandons SOU 'which they won't btw' then Loganair in my opinion would instantly reinstate GLA to SOU.

SOU needs more airlines and routes but at this present time, easyjet are not a huge player at the airport.

The 'bubble burst' at SOU with the collapse of Flybe 'Mark 1'. But that's a completely different scenario.

[stewyb]

Easyjet operate 6 routes out of 20 destinations that are currently served from SOU.

Easyjet will soon be the only airline operating from GLA to SOU.

Easyjet for summer 2024 only compete on Faro and Palma from SOU and to a certain extent with BFS.

Easyjet are one of 9 airlines currently serving SOU.

Easyjet has been successfully operating since it was founded in 1995.

There is the demand from SOU to GLA as well as EDI.

In what way are you describing "When the orange bubble bursts"?

Are you describing the collapse of easyjet itself or if the airline ceased operations at SOU.

Either way you're statement is ridiculous.

If by any chance easyjet abandons SOU 'which they won't btw' then Loganair in my opinion would instantly reinstate GLA to SOU.

SOU needs more airlines and routes but at this present time, easyjet are not a huge player at the airport.

The 'bubble burst' at SOU with the collapse of Flybe 'Mark 1'. But that's a completely different scenario.

Well said. On this thread for years people have been crying out/demanding a low cost carrier come in to stimulate proper growth, now it looks like this is starting to materialise and the result is we have questions around eggs in one basket again whilst the bubble will undoubtedly burst. What on earth are the airport and its owners supposed to do for the best when they have the uk’s largest airline operating an Airbus fleet showing interest?

[Albert Hall]

Take a leaf out of Bristol’s management book perhaps where they seem to manage and grow the network without squabbles of the Glasgow-Southampton nature and still keep easyJet happy?

Travel Weekly also reporting cuts on EDI from four to three a day and NCL from 15 to 13 a week.

[SWBKCB]

The point about the bubble bursting is that EZY currently have little invested in SOU, and can move away as quickly as they arrived - can they make more money elsewhere than they can at SOU? That is what LM have decided. If you read their statement, it is all about resilience in their network. Suggesting they would leap back if EZY pulled off GLA is optimistic. What with? Also, what are the odds of a LM MAN service now?

[MidlandsWanderer]

Also, what are the odds of a LM MAN service now?

About the same as they were before. Neither airport is a base for them so they either have to invest in a new base or operate a range of W flights adding operational risk to an already stretched schedule. The added complication is that MAN airport don't want a domestic carrier based at their airport as they have higher aspirations than that (according to them).

[laviation]

The added complication is that MAN airport don't want a domestic carrier based at their airport as they have higher aspirations than that (according to them).

Obvious sly dig aside (convenient geographical hint in your name) MAN literally has based domestic carriers !

[tallaonejuliet]

Obvious sly dig aside (convenient geographical hint in your name) MAN literally has based domestic carriers !

Not many domestic based carriers left that would be naive enough to commit corporate suicide going up against EasyJet.
Unfortunately it's the free market economy, LM will eventually retreat from SOU should the orange expansion prove successful, SI will be looking behind their shoulders given the volume of flights they provide at SOU.

[Hial Flyer]

LM were becoming a nightmare on the route in the last year, even before EZY turned up. Used the GLA route often and out of the last 6 return flights only one was less than 2 hours late, one was over 3. All due to tech E145. It was becoming a joke. It wasnt reliable. On one occasion the LM flight landed at SOU 30 mins before the EZY, yet the EZY was away back to GLA long before the LM as the E145 required an air start.
The E145 was the wrong aircraft for the route, they should have used their ATR72,. More seats and could have competed better with EZY on price. I think the pulling of the route is more to do with whats going on with LM themselves rather then the route itself. Pilots are jumping ship at an alarming rate.

[Diff Tail Shim]

LM were becoming a nightmare on the route in the last year, even before EZY turned up. Used the GLA route often and out of the last 6 return flights only one was less than 2 hours late, one was over 3. All due to tech E145. It was becoming a joke. It wasnt reliable. On one occasion the LM flight landed at SOU 30 mins before the EZY, yet the EZY was away back to GLA long before the LM as the E145 required an air start.
The E145 was the wrong aircraft for the route, they should have used their ATR72,. More seats and could have competed better with EZY on price. I think the pulling of the route is more to do with whats going on with LM themselves rather then the route itself. Pilots are jumping ship at an alarming rate. ATRs are as equally unreliable. Horrible things. Your last statement is easy to believe. The big players are hoovering pilots from LM because their pay is way better. Economics.

[darren1]

Easyjet operate 6 routes out of 20 destinations that are currently served from SOU.

Easyjet will soon be the only airline operating from GLA to SOU.

Easyjet for summer 2024 only compete on Faro and Palma from SOU and to a certain extent with BFS.

Easyjet are one of 9 airlines currently serving SOU.

Easyjet has been successfully operating since it was founded in 1995.

There is the demand from SOU to GLA as well as EDI.

In what way are you describing "When the orange bubble bursts"?

Are you describing the collapse of easyjet itself or if the airline ceased operations at SOU.

Either way you're statement is ridiculous.

If by any chance easyjet abandons SOU 'which they won't btw' then Loganair in my opinion would instantly reinstate GLA to SOU.

SOU needs more airlines and routes but at this present time, easyjet are not a huge player at the airport.

The 'bubble burst' at SOU with the collapse of Flybe 'Mark 1'. But that's a completely different scenario.


Nothing ridiculous dear. If SOU goes orange and current airlines jump ship, problems lie ahead if yields don't stack for U2. They will go where the money is. Yes U2 could find a niche and work wonders, but all the armchair CEOs on here have to remember EI, LM and KL could all easily go for good. Taking T3 out of the equation as they are just awful. A daily JER fro U2 could easily wipe out SI. Be careful what you wish for.

[Sotonsean]

Nothing ridiculous dear. If SOU goes orange and current airlines jump ship, problems lie ahead if yields don't stack for U2. They will go where the money is. Yes U2 could find a niche and work wonders, but all the armchair CEOs on here have to remember EI, LM and KL could all easily go for good. Taking T3 out of the equation as they are just awful. A daily JER fro U2 could easily wipe out SI. Be careful what you wish for.

Just to inform you "dear" but I'm not personally wishing for anything. I would prefer to keep the incumbents and allow them to expand. I would prefer it if SOU could attract further airlines and routes without having to rely on easyjet.

Easyjet expansion is obviously very welcome at SOU but I don't want it to be detrimental to existing operators. Loganair pulling GLA-SOU is the first obvious sign of this.

I personally don't fly with easyjet so it doesn't affect me one way or another. All I want to see is my local airport prosper. The airport serving the region to destinations that include both sun and city breaks.

Southampton Airport is totally underutilised and in my opinion totally underappreciated. It has so much potential that is not taken advantage of.

[Asturias56]

"if SOU could attract further airlines and routes without having to rely on easyjet."

Beggars can't be choosers - and the only airlines likely to expand are LCO's - if it wasn't Easy who would you like to see? The mainline airlines aren't interested in serving small airports

[SouthernAlliance]

"if SOU could attract further airlines and routes without having to rely on easyjet."

Beggars can't be choosers - and the only airlines likely to expand are LCO's - if it wasn't Easy who would you like to see? The mainline airlines aren't interested in serving small airports

As you say, the likelihood of attracting other airlines nowadays is becoming limited. The airport may see the new Lufthansa City set up in the future with Frankfurt but cannot think of many other mainlines that might be interested, low cost perhaps Wizz with a route or two. SOU doesn’t have too much choice but to throw everything at easyJet which could become a lucrative partnership (could!). One thing is pretty certain however, I don’t see LM or BA being at the airport in 12/18 months time if the orange relationship blossoms. Not ideal to loose airlines but it may be the only way for SOU to build growth, a risky game to be played out in the future quite possibly.

[Rivet Joint]

The usual suspects having a field day I see. I have repeatedly posted stats that prove the Belfast city route hasn’t been affected by Easy’s new route to the other Belfast airport. In fact the city route grew. Logan are clearly going through a difficult patch with losing pilots and availability of ATR parts, new planes. Also the sale of the business hanging over their heads. The CEO that left recently could obviously see what was on the horizon. None of this has anything to do with SOU or Easy. The fact they still operate 145s when no other big operator in Europe does was always a red flag.

Most importantly, let’s approach this factually. The loss of Logan on the Glasgow route means only a loss of 147 passengers. Hardly the end of the world. I still feel like there is a place for Logan operating one super early and one late night flight to cater for people after a full day either end. But I also can see Easy doing two daily flights. Perhaps a based aircraft could fly down from Glasgow in the morning do a few routes from SOU and then fly back up to Glasgow in the evening.

[SWBKCB]

None of this has anything to do with SOU or Easy.

You're right - it's just coincidence that the route LM dropped from SOU is the one EZY are competing on.

Perhaps a based aircraft could fly down from Glasgow in the morning do a few routes from SOU and then fly back up to Glasgow in the evening.

How do you crew this? Is it a model EZY operate elsewhere?

[SouthernAlliance]

You're right - it's just coincidence that the route LM dropped from SOU is the one EZY are competing on.


How do you crew this? Is it a model EZY operate elsewhere?

AMS based plane operates morning to SEN, then ALC return followed by evening back to AMS. Guess SOU could do similar with GLA crew?

[Albert Hall]

If you are short of pilots and need to cut back your schedule, you won't cut back on your most profitable routes. You'll take the worst performers and ditch those. The fact that GLA-SOU has been ditched says everything about the performance of the route since easyJet started on it.

And I would be concerned about this. "It's only 147 passengers" - yes, those who needed the business schedule Loganair offered but easyJet does not provide. You do not want to be losing that type of passenger from SOU and ending up with them using LHR instead. Not all passengers are equal. It's a bad day for the airport, for sure.

[SKOJB]

If you are short of pilots and need to cut back your schedule, you won't cut back on your most profitable routes. You'll take the worst performers and ditch those. The fact that GLA-SOU has been ditched says everything about the performance of the route since easyJet started on it.

And I would be concerned about this. "It's only 147 passengers" - yes, those who needed the business schedule Loganair offered but easyJet does not provide. You do not want to be losing that type of passenger from SOU and ending up with them using LHR instead. Not all passengers are equal. It's a bad day for the airport, for sure.

Not sure a small number of business travellers for GLA moving to LHR will bother the airport if easyjet do indeed set up a base. It’s a game of risk and reward and it’s clear to see which side the airport is swaying towards. Never be surprised to see EDI go orange next.

[SotonFlightpath]

If you are short of pilots and need to cut back your schedule, you won't cut back on your most profitable routes. You'll take the worst performers and ditch those. The fact that GLA-SOU has been ditched says everything about the performance of the route since easyJet started on it.

And I would be concerned about this. "It's only 147 passengers" - yes, those who needed the business schedule Loganair offered but easyJet does not provide. You do not want to be losing that type of passenger from SOU and ending up with them using LHR instead. Not all passengers are equal. It's a bad day for the airport, for sure.

That's very true. I appreciate that things have changed and fewer people travel on business, but in the days when I flew very regularly for business as a self-employed person it was pretty much essential that the return trip could be made in a day. I regularly used SOU for Manchester, Glasgow, Newcastle and Dublin and the schedules made this possible. I also used LHR for Amsterdam, Oslo, Dusseldorf, Hamburg and Athens and these were also out and back the same day. Sadly the lack of a super early out and late evening return precluded using Southampton for Amsterdam.

Even with the lower passenger numbers now, Southampton will lose business traffic if the schedules are not flexible.

[stewyb]

Good interview shown with AGS at Routes Europe recently. Mentioned that SOU was the most exciting project of all 3 of their airports, has huge potential and are looking to increase pax numbers with much more leisure. EasyJet was discussed as expanding at the airport and general growth would ‘snowball’ over the next few years, promising!

[The Nutts Mutts]

It's not "only 147 passengers" though, is it? It's almost 300 per day if you count the return legs too.
9000 a month, 108000 a year. That's a lot less people paying for car parking, food & drinks, magazines, lounges etc. That'll hit the airport's bottom line.
There's also the loss of landing fees, fuel uplift and passenger fees. Losing an established operator on a trunk route is never a good thing.
Airports exist as an economic driver for the wider region, and the Southampton region has had business and commuter friendly flights to Scotland's largest and most industrial city for decades. After the 10th of May it won't have anymore, and that's an economic loss to the area.

[SouthernAlliance]

It's not "only 147 passengers" though, is it? It's almost 300 per day if you count the return legs too.
9000 a month, 108000 a year. That's a lot less people paying for car parking, food & drinks, magazines, lounges etc. That'll hit the airport's bottom line.
There's also the loss of landing fees, fuel uplift and passenger fees. Losing an established operator on a trunk route is never a good thing.
Airports exist as an economic driver for the wider region, and the Southampton region has had business and commuter friendly flights to Scotland's largest and most industrial city for decades. After the 10th of May it won't have anymore, and that's an economic loss to the area.

Er, it’s not though is it as from the start of May easyjet go daily so capacity is not lost!

[The Nutts Mutts]

It is a loss compared to LM remaining on the route and coexisting with easyJet which they had been until now.
And regardless of the passenger numbers, going from 3/4 flights per day to one is a net negative for the region's travellers, particularly business travellers, many of whom will use Heathrow instead.

[SotonFlightpath]

Er, it’s not though is it as from the start of May easyjet go daily so capacity is not lost!

Capacity may not be lost, but for those like me who need to be able to travel there and back in the day, it will entail an earlier start and an hour or more on the M3 to Heathrow.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Capacity may not be lost, but for those like me who need to be able to travel there and back in the day, it will entail an earlier start and an hour or more on the M3 to Heathrow.
Sorry to hear that.

[LTNman]

If nothing else it will make the departure board look even more sparse and will remove a whole category of passenger that seeks flight times that easyjet will not be offering, while attracting a new category of passenger that is happy with the easyjet offering, if the price is right, despite the inflexibility of the random flight programme.

There is also the question of incentives, if any, that SOU had to offer easyjet vs the charges LM were paying as the established airline. Did SOU management approach LM with a better deal to try and keep them or has LM got itself into a huff at being forced off the route so jeopardising its other routes? The danger for the airport is that if easyjet pull the route it is unlikely LM will return.

[Asturias56]

"The danger for the airport is that if easyjet pull the route it is unlikely LM will return"

Not so sure - if they were making money before EJ came then they KNOW they can make money if EJ leave - it might not be instant but LM have survived by being very focused on what works FOR THEM.

[Link Kilo]

Good interview shown with AGS at Routes Europe recently. Mentioned that SOU was the most exciting project of all 3 of their airports, has huge potential and are looking to increase pax numbers with much more leisure. EasyJet was discussed as expanding at the airport and general growth would ‘snowball’ over the next few years, promising!

Can you post a link to this please, it sounds like it would be interesting to see in its entirety.

[ATNotts]

If nothing else it will make the departure board look even more sparse and will remove a whole category of passenger that seeks flight times that easyjet will not be offering, while attracting a new category of passenger that is happy with the easyjet offering, if the price is right, despite the inflexibility of the random flight programme.

There is also the question of incentives, if any, that SOU had to offer easyjet vs the charges LM were paying as the established airline. Did SOU management approach LM with a better deal to try and keep them or has LM got itself into a huff at being forced off the route so jeopardising its other routes? The danger for the airport is that if easyjet pull the route it is unlikely LM will return.
What you describe on your first paragraph is pretty well what is happening at all UK airports excepting LHR and to a lesser extent LGW. Leisure is now dominant even at major regionals such as EDI, MAN, BHX and BRS, with business travel in steady decline, Covid and corporate "green" policies being largely to blame.

[Diff Tail Shim]

What you describe on your first paragraph is pretty well what is happening at all UK airports excepting LHR and to a lesser extent LGW. Leisure is now dominant even at major regionals such as EDI, MAN, BHX and BRS, with business travel in steady decline, Covid and corporate "green" policies being largely to blame.
Always was..

[stewyb]

Can you post a link to this please, it sounds like it would be interesting to see in its entirety.

Its on YouTube

[GeorgeNTravels]

Can you post a link to this please, it sounds like it would be interesting to see in its entirety.
Here you go, SOU talk starts just after the halfway point, it begins talking about GLA.

https://youtu.be/vXws3GuyMCQ?si=2xZSPXJ73i-ah-EU

[Irishshamrock]

So which destinations Should easyJet be adding?

High frequency regional is in decline the world over.

Emerald will be the next to make cut backs.

[Dropoffcharge]

Anyone have any info or updates on the refinancing of the 757m depts AGS currently have, I believe the payment maturity date is 18th June 24?

[RW20]

So which destinations Should easyJet be adding?

High frequency regional is in decline the world over.

Emerald will be the next to make cut backs.
If this happens where does it leave SOU ?
I'm afraid that the runway extension has been a damp squib, we are back to relying on one airline ,that is EASY,just like FLYbe pre covid.
There is no airlines coming through with new route,bar a 2x Caen service,the domestic routes are contracting at a alarming rate,we can't complete with BOH rapid expansion,how can the airport reach break even figures of 1.2 mill?
​​
​​

[Albert Hall]

There is a fixation with a certain passenger volume to break even. If the airport has 750,000 pax from eight airlines then it might be profitable depending on what those airlines are paying and the average spend of those passengers on car parking and other income streams. If the airport has 2 million pax from one airline, it might still be loss-making if the airline has a deal to pay very little and the average spend per passenger is low.

[Sharklet_321]

Exactly, and you can be sure easyJet won’t be paying fully published fees.

Another supposed ‘strength’ of SOU is actually its biggest weakness. SOU is double the size of the BOH catchment area, but that population includes a big swathe along the M3 corridor which includes greater south west London. Residents with the equidistant geography between SOU or LHR would naturally flow to LHR. It would be a very costly exercise to try to stop that flow which is facilitated by significant transport and infrastructure capacity. Therefore the ‘true’ catchment of SOU needs to be better understood by its owners. A similar issue can be seen when analysing GLA v EDI or CWL v BRS. CWL and GLA could be seen as ‘in decline’ versus their closest counterparts.

SOU has two options: focus on low cost airlines to try and disrupt that natural flow in its catchment area, or, to downsize so it focuses on higher frequency, regional flying which potentially could be more cash lucrative for existing infrastructure without the need to invest in larger facilities. The latter is possibly not sustainable however, so the answer is obvious.

[Sotonsean]

Exactly, and you can be sure easyJet won’t be paying fully published fees.

Another supposed ‘strength’ of SOU is actually its biggest weakness. SOU is double the size of the BOH catchment area, but that population includes a big swathe along the M3 corridor which includes greater south west London. Residents with the equidistant geography between SOU or LHR would naturally flow to LHR. It would be a very costly exercise to try to stop that flow which is facilitated by significant transport and infrastructure capacity. Therefore the ‘true’ catchment of SOU needs to be better understood by its owners. A similar issue can be seen when analysing GLA v EDI or CWL v BRS. CWL and GLA could be seen as ‘in decline’ versus their closest counterparts.

SOU has two options: focus on low cost airlines to try and disrupt that natural flow in its catchment area, or, to downsize so it focuses on higher frequency, regional flying which potentially could be more cash lucrative for existing infrastructure without the need to invest in larger facilities. The latter is possibly not sustainable however, so the answer is obvious.

Excellent post :ok:

[SWBKCB]

They aren't exclusive. The mistake will be to concentrate on one thing. Spread the risk and maximise income from as many sources as possible

[Asturias56]

"Residents with the equidistant geography between SOU or LHR would naturally flow to LHR."

Not totally sure about that - SOU has advantages IF they make the best of them - ease of transiting the airport is one, getting to the actual terminal is another. Not everyone likes a drive up the M3 and the trains don't go right to LHR

[DC3 Dave]

"Residents with the equidistant geography between SOU or LHR would naturally flow to LHR."

Not totally sure about that - SOU has advantages IF they make the best of them - ease of transiting the airport is one, getting to the actual terminal is another. Not everyone likes a drive up the M3 and the trains don't go right to LHR

Gosh! This is an epiphany moment. Quite right, accentuate the positive.

[Wycombe]

"Residents with the equidistant geography between SOU or LHR would naturally flow to LHR."

Don't agree either. I live in West Berks, about 40 miles from LHR and SOU. Back a few years ago when I was flying for work trips I always used SOU to go to places like JER, GCI, BHD and GLA. LHR (or LGW) for longer-haul stuff.

My SOU trips were nearly always daytrips aswell. SOU made that easy as, for example, at LHR it's just not possible to be driving out of the airport 10 minutes after getting off the aeroplane. I lament that many of these daytrip options now seem to be increasingly unavailable.

[Rivet Joint]

Some facts to clear up some confusion:

- A direct quote from the airport was that it cannot be profitable with the likes of Loganair serving regional routes. So it needs the scale of a low cost operator as a regional the size of Flybe is unlikely ever to happen again. So let’s all stop caring about bloody Loganair! They have been making hay whilst the sun-shined but are of no use to a profitable airport that want thousands using their shops, parking and facilities rather than a hundred or so. Please let this sink in as it’s direct from the airport and puts any debate of a low cost operator vs a regional to bed. It’s a low cost operator or nothing in today’s world.

- Frequency and the ability to do a day trip is a nice to have but I bet you can fly Easy to Glasgow, get a hotel for the night and a meal and still have paid less than a day return on Logan. Less frequency is only going to be an issue for a very small amount of people.

- It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Emerald as things stand are doing very well and are seeing growth. Having the Aer Lingus code share and brand gives them an edge. It’s the same reason why Easy could probably do AMS and KLM still stay with its world connections.

- The current rumours are that more routes will be added but from aircraft based elsewhere. Other bases have grown this way. You can still have a crew base in SOU but no aircraft based.

-Easy are now starting to rapidly add new aircraft so will now have capacity for growth.

[Albert Hall]

You can still have a crew base in SOU but no aircraft based.

If we're dealing in facts as you suggest, there's nowhere on the easyJet network where they do that. Any crew base has aircraft based there. It's ludicrous to suggest they might have Southampton-based crew but no Southampton-based aircraft.

They do nightstop away from base in a few locations - ABZ, INV, BHD and JER spring to mind for Gatwick - but that's about as far as it goes.

[SouthernAlliance]

Hopefully easyJet will add another couple of routes for this winter season.

[Asturias56]

"Gosh! This is an epiphany moment. Quite right, accentuate the positive."

I see SOU has a place - but not the millions of PAX a year that the fanclub think will use it. And I pointed out a few months back that their lack of advertising is a real issue - if people in Basingstoke don't realise there's an airport down the road how will they ever manage to keep it afloat?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The usual suspects having a field day I see. I have repeatedly posted stats that prove the Belfast city route hasn’t been affected by Easy’s new route to the other Belfast airport. In fact the city route grew. Logan are clearly going through a difficult patch with losing pilots and availability of ATR parts, new planes. Also the sale of the business hanging over their heads. The CEO that left recently could obviously see what was on the horizon. None of this has anything to do with SOU or Easy. The fact they still operate 145s when no other big operator in Europe does was always a red flag.

Most importantly, let’s approach this factually. The loss of Logan on the Glasgow route means only a loss of 147 passengers. Hardly the end of the world. I still feel like there is a place for Logan operating one super early and one late night flight to cater for people after a full day either end. But I also can see Easy doing two daily flights. Perhaps a based aircraft could fly down from Glasgow in the morning do a few routes from SOU and then fly back up to Glasgow in the evening.
This from the man who got his arse handed to him on the Loganair thread for an angry rant about he can't comprehend Loganair and they're doomed to failure for abandoning Southampton for "barren Scottish islands". What you're continually ignoring after having it spelled out to you, is SOU can have one of two things on a route.
1) High frequency, higher cost on a turboprop or an ERJ
2) High volume, low cost, poor frequency on an A320 series

With a SOU sized market, there's no room for both. No point raging at Loganair when they do exactly what they were expected to do to survive.

[adfly]

A break from the usual arguments/repeated posts/personal attacks:

Summary of passenger numbers & changes on all regular scheduled and charter routes for 2023, including % change on 2022.

UK

Aberdeen - 6,115 (+95%)
Alderney - 17,214 (+1%)
Belfast City - 79,810 (+32%)
Belfast International - 5,332 (New)
Edinburgh - 89,058 (+9%)
Glasgow - 87,044 (+16%)
Guernsey - 97,466 (+1%)
Jersey - 99,895 (+0%)
Manchester - 5,515 (-49%)
Newcastle - 46,908 (+20%)
Stornoway - 5,201 (New)

Total UK - 493,119

Republic of Ireland

Dublin - 76,300 (+150%)

France

Bergerac - 3,452 (-53%)
Chambery - 4,445 (+47%)
Limoges - 981 (-65%)
Paris Orly - 9,043 (New)

Total France - 17,921

Netherlands

Amsterdam - 86,015 (+63%)

Switzerland

Geneva - 17,934 (+92%)

Austria

Salzburg - 1,895 (+46%)

Spain

Alicante - 1,112 (-73%)
Palma - 16,239 (+27%)
Malaga - 3,868 (-48%)

Total Spain - 21,219

Portugal

Faro - 3,766 (-4%)


Total Overall - 754,931 (+20%, includes charters/one off flights/diversions etc)

[Ascupart]

Summary of passenger numbers & changes on all regular scheduled and charter routes for 2023, including % change on 2022...

What is the source of your data? The CAA table 12.3 (https://www.caa.co.uk/Documents/Download/10288/81d07410-dbcd-46e7-aacc-d0a5accf0d90/16429) gives slightly different numbers (not that it matters)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1929x1474/caa_3660bc9e283fdf84fe2f55b8d01e71c7cc7eeb57.png

[adfly]

What is the source of your data? The CAA table 12.3 (https://www.caa.co.uk/Documents/Download/10288/81d07410-dbcd-46e7-aacc-d0a5accf0d90/16429) gives slightly different numbers (not that it matters)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1929x1474/caa_3660bc9e283fdf84fe2f55b8d01e71c7cc7eeb57.png
The same tables in a different document has different numbers! There is presumably a counting detail difference between them. https://www.caa.co.uk/Documents/Download/10288/81d07410-dbcd-46e7-aacc-d0a5accf0d90/16429

[LTNman]

Some facts to clear up some confusion:

- The current rumours are that more routes will be added but from aircraft based elsewhere. Other bases have grown this way. You can still have a crew base in SOU but no aircraft based.

.

So how would that work without some non based flight crew day stopping at SOU while a SOU crew took over?

[Rivet Joint]

A break from the usual arguments/repeated posts/personal attacks:

Summary of passenger numbers & changes on all regular scheduled and charter routes for 2023, including % change on 2022.

UK

Aberdeen - 6,115 (+95%)
Alderney - 17,214 (+1%)
Belfast City - 79,810 (+32%)
Belfast International - 5,332 (New)
Edinburgh - 89,058 (+9%)
Glasgow - 87,044 (+16%)
Guernsey - 97,466 (+1%)
Jersey - 99,895 (+0%)
Manchester - 5,515 (-49%)
Newcastle - 46,908 (+20%)
Stornoway - 5,201 (New)

Total UK - 493,119

Republic of Ireland

Dublin - 76,300 (+150%)

France

Bergerac - 3,452 (-53%)
Chambery - 4,445 (+47%)
Limoges - 981 (-65%)
Paris Orly - 9,043 (New)

Total France - 17,921

Netherlands

Amsterdam - 86,015 (+63%)

Switzerland

Geneva - 17,934 (+92%)

Austria

Salzburg - 1,895 (+46%)

Spain

Alicante - 1,112 (-73%)
Palma - 16,239 (+27%)
Malaga - 3,868 (-48%)

Total Spain - 21,219

Portugal

Faro - 3,766 (-4%)


Total Overall - 754,931 (+20%, includes charters/one off flights/diversions etc)

Some great figures there. Circa 90k on Glasgow and Edinburgh is food for thought for the likes of Easy. Let’s not forget that those numbers are largely from people paying Loganair prices so imagine what the numbers could be if both routes were served by Easy? Belfast, Dublin and Amsterdam also very strong.

[Breathe]

Interview with Christopher Tibbett, Aviation Director, AGS Airports, at Routes Europe 2024.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXws3GuyMCQ

[SouthernAlliance]

A break from the usual arguments/repeated posts/personal attacks:

Summary of passenger numbers & changes on all regular scheduled and charter routes for 2023, including % change on 2022.

UK

Aberdeen - 6,115 (+95%)
Alderney - 17,214 (+1%)
Belfast City - 79,810 (+32%)
Belfast International - 5,332 (New)
Edinburgh - 89,058 (+9%)
Glasgow - 87,044 (+16%)
Guernsey - 97,466 (+1%)
Jersey - 99,895 (+0%)
Manchester - 5,515 (-49%)
Newcastle - 46,908 (+20%)
Stornoway - 5,201 (New)

Total UK - 493,119

Republic of Ireland

Dublin - 76,300 (+150%)

France

Bergerac - 3,452 (-53%)
Chambery - 4,445 (+47%)
Limoges - 981 (-65%)
Paris Orly - 9,043 (New)

Total France - 17,921

Netherlands

Amsterdam - 86,015 (+63%)

Switzerland

Geneva - 17,934 (+92%)

Austria

Salzburg - 1,895 (+46%)

Spain

Alicante - 1,112 (-73%)
Palma - 16,239 (+27%)
Malaga - 3,868 (-48%)

Total Spain - 21,219

Portugal

Faro - 3,766 (-4%)


Total Overall - 754,931 (+20%, includes charters/one off flights/diversions etc)

Thanks Adfly, good data as ever. Apart from numbers for the Channel Islands, EDI/LM with 90k seems to have held up well (but with limited growth) and there has no doubt been some leakage to Ryanair at BOH with 48k on the same route. With this in mind, I would stake money on easyJet jumping on this from October with a daily 320 that would deliver well over 100k seats. LM coming off GLA means easyjet may see this as a time to move in for the kill. Really hard on LM when they delivered a decent recovery for the airport after Covid/BE but I guess this is how the big, bad, ruthless LCC operate!

[055166k]

It's the nature of the business. Flybe and Air Southwest for example.

[Asturias56]

"how the big, bad, ruthless LCC operate!"

ye s- the people who bring cheap fares to the masses and fly to all sorts of places the "legacy" flag carriers could never bother about

[SouthernAlliance]

"how the big, bad, ruthless LCC operate!"

ye s- the people who bring cheap fares to the masses and fly to all sorts of places the "legacy" flag carriers could never bother about

Was said tongue in cheek

[Asturias56]

Was said tongue in cheek
apologies its hard to tell on this thread TBH

[Ascupart]

I see EasyJet has just flown a new A320 neo on the Southampton to Glasgow route. Is this a first for the airport?

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/337x918/ez_3dfd91d8fb652ecd1f2b7cc0a290f49356106944.png

[stewyb]

I see EasyJet has just flown a new A320 neo on the Southampton to Glasgow route. Is this a first for the airport?

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/337x918/ez_3dfd91d8fb652ecd1f2b7cc0a290f49356106944.png

easyjet regularly fly in the NEO and believe they first appeared a couple of winters ago on GVA

[S.o.S.]

Oi. What is with you lot? Do not insult other posters. Thus far, I am deleting posts and giving warnings. be polite, we do not want this to become like other social media places. I will not say this again.

[Albert Hall]

A bit of news for everyone who thought Loganair fares were/are too high. One high fare monopoly has been swapped for another, just with far less flights and choice at SOU to show for it.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1125x1024/img_0381_b5d4591844f33716ee7cbf98fb43d8023a72b45e.jpeg
Inspired move by AGS to encourage easyJet onto the route. Edinburgh next?

[RW20]

Total nonsense I expect Easy have a few seats left to sell at premium prices!

[SKOJB]

As has been mentioned on here, GLA with easyJet is selling very well so assume full load on this date with only a seat or two left and hence can sell at a premium. Prices definitely didn’t start at that type of figure. And yes EDI will probably be next for this winter

[TartinTon]

Total nonsense I expect Easy have a few seats left to sell at premium prices!

Correct, they have about 15 seats left. Plus it's the school half-term so hardly surprising that flights are busy. A selective choice by Albert trying to make a non-existant point apparently seeing as outside of the half term the prices are from £23 upwards. You'd never find anything like that from Logan.

[mudcity]

Titan A321 tomorrow 1610 / 1740 STN / BRU charter

[Rivet Joint]

Correct, they have about 15 seats left. Plus it's the school half-term so hardly surprising that flights are busy. A selective choice by Albert trying to make a non-existant point apparently seeing as outside of the half term the prices are from £23 upwards. You'd never find anything like that from Logan.

Beat me to it. The start of a school holiday was certainly an interesting choice. And as others have put, the first 49 passengers that would fill a Loganair plane would have bought their tickets at no more than £50 with Easy.

Out of interest, I’ve just checked Loganair to EDI for the same dates and it’s circa £430. So £200 more than Easy! And you go on a bigger plane with Easy.

Also did a quick search for train tickets for the same dates, that will be £219. Just the 5 changes to make and 13.5 hour trip. £237 (just £18 more) on Easy isn’t looking too bad is it?

Yeah, think SOU are going to be ok with Easy.

[SWBKCB]

And you go on a bigger plane with Easy.

Having flown both, I don't think that's an advantage - and you get a Tunnocks's! :ok:

[LTNman]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/24246695.southampton-hailed-stress-free-london-alternative-summer/

[055166k]

KLM via Amsterdam.......£253.09 return....choice of flights and connections......AND 4 legs means FOUR of my favourite KLM cookies and free coffee.....AND.....duty free shopping. Don't think Orange.....think Blue. The earlier morning flight is brilliant for connections Europe-wide!!!!!!

[The breeze]

Some facts to clear up some confusion:

- A direct quote from the airport was that it cannot be profitable with the likes of Loganair serving regional routes. So it needs the scale of a low cost operator as a regional the size of Flybe is unlikely ever to happen again. So let’s all stop caring about bloody Loganair! They have been making hay whilst the sun-shined but are of no use to a profitable airport that want thousands using their shops, parking and facilities rather than a hundred or so. Please let this sink in as it’s direct from the airport and puts any debate of a low cost operator vs a regional to bed. It’s a low cost operator or nothing in today’s world.

- Frequency and the ability to do a day trip is a nice to have but I bet you can fly Easy to Glasgow, get a hotel for the night and a meal and still have paid less than a day return on Logan. Less frequency is only going to be an issue for a very small amount of people.

- It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Emerald as things stand are doing very well and are seeing growth. Having the Aer Lingus code share and brand gives them an edge. It’s the same reason why Easy could probably do AMS and KLM still stay with its world connections.

- The current rumours are that more routes will be added but from aircraft based elsewhere. Other bases have grown this way. You can still have a crew base in SOU but no aircraft based.

-Easy are now starting to rapidly add new aircraft so will now have capacity for growth.


emerald lost 21 million euros last year. They are not ‘doing very well’, and wont be doing it much longer at that rate

[cavokblues]

Also did a quick search for train tickets for the same dates, that will be £219. Just the 5 changes to make and 13.5 hour trip. £237 (just £18 more) on Easy isn’t looking too bad is it?
.

Many made this argument when people were complaining Loganair were too expensive.............

Anyway, the prices seem to be an anomaly more than a long term trend.

[Albert Hall]

The point I was making is that it isn't all sweetness, light and low fares. They're just as able to charge high fares as any other airline - and with a monopoly on SOU/GLA from next week, are taking the opportunity. They are a business at the end of the day, so why wouldn't you. But SOU is also a business and I'd wager that the airport's income is lower from 1 x A320 carrying the same number of passengers as 4 x Embraers, so hardly helping profitability.

[SKOJB]

The point I was making is that it isn't all sweetness, light and low fares. They're just as able to charge high fares as any other airline - and with a monopoly on SOU/GLA from next week, are taking the opportunity. They are a business at the end of the day, so why wouldn't you. But SOU is also a business and I'd wager that the airport's income is lower from 1 x A320 carrying the same number of passengers as 4 x Embraers, so hardly helping profitability.

The harsh reality and fact of matter is that having easyjet jump on GLA and most likely EDI, thus LM being removed, is a price I bet the airport and its owners are willing to pay in return for an orange network/base of say 15-20 routes in the future. Economies of scale and the bigger picture etc etc

[Rivet Joint]

Titan A321 tomorrow 1610 / 1740 STN / BRU charter

Looks to be their A321 Neo. Be interesting to know how many it is able to carry from SOU.

Having flown both, I don't think that's an advantage - and you get a Tunnocks's! :ok:

The offer of Tunnocks was a good move from Logan. Many have a weakness for those, including me :ooh:

The point I was making is that it isn't all sweetness, light and low fares. They're just as able to charge high fares as any other airline - and with a monopoly on SOU/GLA from next week, are taking the opportunity. They are a business at the end of the day, so why wouldn't you. But SOU is also a business and I'd wager that the airport's income is lower from 1 x A320 carrying the same number of passengers as 4 x Embraers, so hardly helping profitability.

Good point in respect of less flights meaning less landing fees. The increase in passenger numbers and spends in the shops, car parking should make up for that though. Plus as another poster has said a larger portfolio of routes are an option with Easy unlike with a regional like Logan. Except for the the few airports that are lucky to have a diverse revenue stream or luck with being near oil fields etc, the way to break even today if you are predominantly a commercial ops airport is to have a low cost carrier. There are no regionals of sufficient scale to prop up airports like Flybe use to.

[TCAS FAN]

Looks to be their A321 Neo. Be interesting to know how many it is able to carry from SOU.

.

Simples, if it’s only going to BRU, full house if needed!

[SouthernAlliance]

Simples, if it’s only going to BRU, full house if needed!

I have seen many Wizz A321 lift off from LTN in a very short length of runway and presumably going to destinations all over Europe. Very impressive performance for a larger aircraft.

[L1011effoh]

Interesting to note that the Ezy to Palma last night was having performance problems, requested RW02 for departure with wind 260/7 on a dry runway with QNH 1007 and still sounding a bit unsure, needing to “check figures” before takeoff. That doesn’t bode well for everyone’s EZY expansionist fantasies.

I have an acquaintance who was planning to travel GLA-SOU for a cruise and had to rebook due to LM stopping the service - EZY prices were in excess of £800 for 3 people including baggage so she has booked the train and a hotel, still more than the LM flights cost.

[wanna]

The high ground will always be an issue at the end of 20, until your sat on the threshold its hard to appreciate how large an obstacle it is.

Shame they didn't look at EDI - BOH with RYR for the flights, very reasonable prices and times for the most part and whilst not as convenient, still much more convenient than the train.

[L1011effoh]

The high ground will always be an issue at the end of 20, until you’re sat on the threshold it’s hard to appreciate how large an obstacle it is.


I’ve seen it lots of times as you describe. The point I was trying to make was this was a SOU-PMI flight in relatively benign performance conditions, almost calm winds, close to ISA conditions in the dry. Many people in this thread have suggested grand destinations for EZY (Canaries anyone?) and here they are stressing about takeoff performance limiting mass for a PMI.

Thanks for your other suggestion BTW.

[inOban]

Beat me to it. The start of a school holiday was certainly an interesting choice. And as others have put, the first 49 passengers that would fill a Loganair plane would have bought their tickets at no more than £50 with Easy.

Out of interest, I’ve just checked Loganair to EDI for the same dates and it’s circa £430. So £200 more than Easy! And you go on a bigger plane with Easy.

Also did a quick search for train tickets for the same dates, that will be £219. Just the 5 changes to make and 13.5 hour trip. £237 (just £18 more) on Easy isn’t looking too bad is it?

Yeah, think SOU are going to be ok with Easy.
Two changes and about 6 hours. Change at Waterloo to Northern line and then Euston to Glasgow

[Sotonsean]

Two changes and about 6 hours. Change at Waterloo to Northern line and then Euston to Glasgow

That is by far the quickest way of getting from Southampton to Glasgow by train.

The same applies by travelling from Southampton to Manchester via London Euston.

Quick, fast, and easy with a good schedule. It's a lot quicker than a lengthy cross-country railway journey.

The London underground might not be for everyone but there's always the option of getting a taxi between London Euston and London Waterloo..

[Asturias56]

depends on how much baggage you have - via London is a pain if you're loaded up with heavy baggage

Cross Country has its advantages (not many I'd agree)

[SotonFlightpath]

That is by far the quickest way of getting from Southampton to Glasgow by train.

The same applies by travelling from Southampton to Manchester via London Euston.

Quick, fast, and easy with a good schedule. It's a lot quicker than a lengthy cross-country railway journey.

The London underground might not be for everyone but there's always the option of getting a taxi between London Euston and London Waterloo..

But even as a lifelong rail enthusiast, I have to say unless the journey by rail is being made partly for the pleasure of being on a train, any journey from the Southampton area to points north of Birmingham are a complete pain by rail. And, unfortunately, there’s very little pleasure in either using Cross-Country with their short-formed, mega crowded trains, or battling with the crowds across London.

Oh how I wish for the return of a blissful relaxing bimble up to Manchester after lunch on a sunny summer afternoon, with just enough time to enjoy a quick cuppa in a lovely clean, new EMB 175!

[Rivet Joint]

Two changes and about 6 hours. Change at Waterloo to Northern line and then Euston to Glasgow

Was just a quick look on Trainline app but can see there are trains earlier in the day for that date between 6-7 hours with 2-3 changes.

Regardless, outside people with a fear of flying, I’d be surprised if anyone would not pay the extra £18 to get to Glasgow in 1.5 hours vs 6-7 hours. Let’s wait and see what the passenger numbers are like when Logan drop off the route.

[LTNman]

It is all about frequency with a train at least every hour.

[BOHskies]

Weird Glitch...

Oman Air 789 flight WY101 shown as diverted to Southampton this evening on FR24

Maybe one day.