Southampton-3

[shamrock7seal]

What’s interesting is that easyJet serves both BOH and SOU to GVA with pretty much the same capacity give or take. This could indicate that the region itself is underserved and both BOH and SOU will continue to grow. If GVA can be sustained by both then the likes of Palma or Malaga for example certainly can.

[TCAS FAN]

I guess opening hours and lighting are easily fixed so if an LCC was interested you can bet the airport will tell them it’s 24hrs and lighting will be upgraded.

Sorry, you guess wrong.

H24 ops are never going to happen due to restrictions on operating hours specified in a Section 106 Agreement.

CAT 3 lighting would be extremely expensive to install, and make absolutely no business sense as RWY 20 operates with a CAT 1 ILS and RWY 02 operates with non-precision IAPs.

Due to obstacles off both ends of the runway nothing anywhere near CAT 3 minima is possible.

RWY 02 IAP minima could be improved if UK government regains access to the EU EGNOS satellite constellation (which they had until May 2021), or comes up with something to do the same job. That would then permit LPV minima to be restored for the current 02 RNP IAP.

[stewyb]

I guess opening hours and lighting are easily fixed so if an LCC was interested you can bet the airport will tell them it’s 24hrs and lighting will be upgraded.

Pretty sure it’s only a matter of time before 3 easyJet A320N are based there. The opportunity is frankly massive. Congestion in the terminal would also be a good problem for the airport to solve.

Opening hours are non negotiable as outlined in the latest S106 and played a large part in the planning application being approved

[SKOJB]

Sorry, you guess wrong.

H24 ops are never going to happen due to restrictions on operating hours specified in a Section 106 Agreement.

CAT 3 lighting would be extremely expensive to install, and make absolutely no business sense as RWY 20 operates with a CAT 1 ILS and RWY 02 operates with non-precision IAPs.

Due to obstacles off both ends of the runway nothing anywhere near CAT 3 minima is possible.

RWY 02 IAP minima could be improved if UK government regains access to the EU EGNOS satellite constellation (which they had until May 2021), or comes up with something to do the same job. That would then permit LPV minima to be restored for the current 02 RNP IAP.

An added crossbar on R02 wouldn’t go amiss as pretty standard lighting at present

[TCAS FAN]

An added crossbar on R02 wouldn’t go amiss as pretty standard lighting at present

Basically this is a case of where length matters. Based upon my understanding of EU OPS minima I would make the following observations.

Together with high intensity lighting that SOU has the RVR minima for IAP is determined by length of approach lighting. SOU has what EU OPS define as "intermediate lighting" which requires 420-719 metres length of lighting. RWY 02 currently has 426 metres and RWY 20 434 metres.

To go up to the next level "Full facilities" lighting the approach lighting needs to be 720 metres or greater. This would require lighting on 20 to extend past the large rail sheds. For this there could be a 150 metre reduction in the RVR minima for RWY 20 (700 to 550 metres). Purely on financial grounds cannot see this ever happening.

[RW20]

Basically this is a case of where length matters. Based upon my understanding of EU OPS minima I would make the following observations.

Together with high intensity lighting that SOU has the RVR minima for IAP is determined by length of approach lighting. SOU has what EU OPS define as "intermediate lighting" which requires 420-719 metres length of lighting. RWY 02 currently has 426 metres and RWY 20 434 metres.

To go up to the next level "Full facilities" lighting the approach lighting needs to be 720 metres or greater. This would require lighting on 20 to extend past the large rail sheds. For this there could be a 150 metre reduction in the RVR minima for RWY 20 (700 to 550 metres). Purely on financial grounds cannot see this ever happening.
TCAS FAN
If Southampton wants based LCC aircraft,then they are going to have to upgrade there approach and landing aids including lighting,as as it stands SOU must have the highest minimas for landing in the UK!

[SWBKCB]

TCAS FAN
Their is a council meeting on Friday 03/02 ( Airport Consultative Committe) on the agenda is the runway extension update.
One would hope to get news on this,although I must say there there has been little or no news for many months. Surely the airport management have put in place the details to get this done by later in the year?

Any update?

[TCAS FAN]

TCAS FAN
....................,as as it stands SOU must have the highest minimas for landing in the UK!

No contest. London City is the clear winner of that one.

[TCAS FAN]

Any update?

Unfortunately I was elsewhere working. Do not know how long it takes for the meeting minutes to be completed and posted. Link below to see them when they appear::

https://meetings.eastleigh.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=267#:~:text=The%20purpose%20of%20 the%20Committee%20is%20to%20act,external%20Committee%20merel y%20facilitated%20by%20Eastleigh%20Borough%20Council.

Nothing updated on the SOU website since announcement of the appeal rejection on 1 August 2022.

[inOban]

It's not two years since the appeals process was exhausted.

[TCAS FAN]

It's not two years since the appeals process was exhausted.

It’s not, the announcement that the appeals processes were exhausted was made on the SOU website 1 August 2022, that makes it just over 5 months.

[gkmeech]

Any update?

This is this the page to track for all EBC discussions/decisions ref Southampton Airport …

https://meetings.eastleigh.gov.uk/ieListMeetings.aspx?CommitteeId=267

[rog747]

What’s interesting is that easyJet serves both BOH and SOU to GVA with pretty much the same capacity give or take. This could indicate that the region itself is underserved and both BOH and SOU will continue to grow. If GVA can be sustained by both then the likes of Palma or Malaga for example certainly can.

FYI
Palma is already well served from SOU with BACF (3 a week) and TUI twice a week (using their own chartered flights from BACF)
Malaga is 1 a week with BACF.
All the SOU flights mentioned are seasonal summer only.

Incidentally, BOH has no TUI Holiday flights to Malaga anymore.
(BOH-AGP is only served by Ryanair)
TUI nor Ryanair do not operate BOH to Palma in the winter months.

If you want to go to Majorca in the winter from our local area you will have to go from LCY LGW or BRS (On BACF, BA, or Easyjet)

TUI do not offer Palma Majorca at all from any airports in the winter.

[SouthernAlliance]

Any whispers of new airlines/routes on the horizon?

[SouthernAlliance]

The airport really is doing very well during this winter season when you compare their x25 daily departures versus x4/5 with the likes of EXE/BOH/SEN/NWI/HUM/MME/CWL. Makes you wonder how some of these regionals can survive and SOU will likely get even stronger with an extended runway and maybe more airlines and routes forthcoming!

[SWBKCB]

The others survive by not being reliant on airline services, but have a range of other activities to support them (oil and gas heli operations, MRO, painting etc). So arguably they are in a stronger position than SOU.

Maybe wait and see what the impact is of the yet to be built runway extension?

[stewyb]

Now official, runway extension commences 31st March and completes 17th August, fabulous news!

[Cazza_fly]

Now official, runway extension commences 31st March and completes 17th August, fabulous news!

Finally !!! Great news and well done SOU.

[TCAS FAN]

Now official, runway extension commences 31st March and completes 17th August, fabulous news!

You say "official", are you indicating that CAA have signed off the CAP 791 Compliance and Control project issues?

[stewyb]

You say "official", are you indicating that CAA have signed off the CAP 791 Compliance and Control project issues?

comms sent out to local residents and the airport having set up a runway app, all project dates detailed in them so think that’s official enough. I’m sure CAA confirmation will follow shortly!

[TCAS FAN]

comms sent out to local residents and the airport having set up a runway app, all project dates detailed in them

Somewhat academic unless the CAA have signed off the project.

[RW20]

Somewhat academic unless the CAA have signed off the project.
This is good news,but needs confirmation from CAA , it will be interesting to see that any additional airlines will submit to operating from SOU given the news?
SOU needs additional airlines/routes to survive and progress.


​

[Rivet Joint]

Now official, runway extension commences 31st March and completes 17th August, fabulous news!

Great news! Credit to the airport for persevering with this. Fingers crossed it will act as a catalyst to more routes and the other development in the master plan.

[Expressflight]

[QUOTE=stewyb;11387362]comms sent out to local residents and the airport having set up a runway app,/QUOTE]

Just having the information on an app doesn't seem a particularly good way of disseminating the information to all potentially interested parties. Why not use the airport website as the primary source for this information?

[stewyb]

[QUOTE=stewyb;11387362]comms sent out to local residents and the airport having set up a runway app,/QUOTE]

Just having the information on an app doesn't seem a particularly good way of disseminating the information to all potentially interested parties. Why not use the airport website as the primary source for this information?

Believe all information will be available on their website from 1st March

[TCAS FAN]

[QUOTE=Expressflight;11388239]

Believe all information will be available on their website from 1st March

Ahead of this should be the Ops Director's report to the 3 February meeting of the Airport Consultative Committee, for which I understand that the Minutes will be on the EBC website by the end of this week. If all is still on schedule for a 31 March kick-off the "official" notification of the construction project should appear with the next batch of AIP Supplements, which should appear on the NATS AIS website around 28Feb/1 Mar.

[stewyb]

[QUOTE=stewyb;11388240]

Ahead of this should be the Ops Director's report to the 3 February meeting of the Airport Consultative Committee, for which I understand that the Minutes will be on the EBC website by the end of this week. If all is still on schedule for a 31 March kick-off the "official" notification of the construction project should appear with the next batch of AIP Supplements, which should appear on the NATS AIS website around 28Feb/1 Mar.

Fingers crossed TCAS, all very exciting now it has reached a near start date!

[TCAS FAN]

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11389239]

Fingers crossed TCAS, all very exciting now it has reached a near start date!

Agree, have been waiting many decades for this moment. Will be most interested to see what beyond FAO and PMI will end up on the S24 schedules.

[stewyb]

[QUOTE=stewyb;11389260]

Agree, have been waiting many decades for this moment. Will be most interested to see what beyond FAO and PMI will end up on the S24 schedules.

Yep and maybe W23 also, go on make a prediction or two and I’ll start with Orange to BFS/EDI

[GrahamK]

So what happens if the runway extension gets built but no new airlines/routes come in?

[RW20]

So what happens if the runway extension gets built but no new airlines/routes come in?

​​​although additional airlines / routes are the aim for the airport,the extra length provides existing airlines to operate at full weight in challenging conditions.

[TartinTon]

​​​although additional airlines / routes are the aim for the airport,the extra length provides existing airlines to operate at full weight in challenging conditions.

And that pretty much is all the extension was aimed to do. The airport MD has repeatedly stated as much so all these dreams about Easy/Ryanair additional med routes etc etc are just pie in the sky. It just re-enforces the operations that are currently there and allows a less restrictive operating environment.

[stewyb]

And that pretty much is all the extension was aimed to do. The airport MD has repeatedly stated as much so all these dreams about Easy/Ryanair additional med routes etc etc are just pie in the sky. It just re-enforces the operations that are currently there and allows a less restrictive operating environment.

You clearly have absolutely no idea on why the extension is being built and the MD has stated no such thing!

[TCAS FAN]

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11389316]

Yep and maybe W23 also, go on make a prediction or two and I’ll start with Orange to BFS/EDI

In the absence of access to current performance data, particularly relating to the A320, to ascertain the improved max take-off weights with the extended runway, I would have to resist speculating on new operators/destinations.

With the substantial investment that AGS are making I am sure that their business case for it included definition of potential new destinations, and thereby the additional revenue that can be generated, to ensure a return on it.

[TCAS FAN]

So what happens if the runway extension gets built but no new airlines/routes come in?

I feel sure that the AGS business plan for the extension was far more robust than “build it and they will come”!

[TartinTon]

You clearly have absolutely no idea on why the extension is being built and the MD has stated no such thing!

You're entitled to your opinion. Let's see who pitches up......

[stewyb]

Somewhat academic unless the CAA have signed off the project.

CAA held their regular board meeting at the airport yesterday so hopefully all was signed off!

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I feel sure that the AGS business plan for the extension was far more robust than “build it and they will come”!
Genuine question, how many flights per day is the multi million pound runway extension at BHX needed for? I don't think Emirates needs it most of the time, so while the extension is welcome at SOU, the benefits may well be marginal in future years. I'd expect a flurry of B737/A320 operators to give it a go and see in the short term though.

[SWBKCB]

I'd expect a flurry of B737/A320 operators to give it a go and see in the short term though.

Ok - I'll bite, like who?

There aren't that many about - Mr O'Leary has said 'never', so they are nailed on..., EZY - large base at LGW, Wizz - possible..., TUI - currently a couple of charters a week - larger operations already at BOH and LGW, Jet2 - said to be not looking at new bases at present, don't normally dabble in 'W's' into non-bases.

After that you are down to wildcards like Volotea, Vueling, Eurowings?

[cavokblues]

I wouldn't be surprised if easyJet initially tried something like a 3x weekly service in the summer from their PMI and AGP bases.

[SouthernAlliance]

If anyone tries the airport, certain it will be EZY and don’t foresee the odd route here and there diluting their mammoth base of 80+ aircraft at LGW!

[RW20]

[QUOTE=stewyb;11389327]

In the absence of access to current performance data, particularly relating to the A320, to ascertain the improved max take-off weights with the extended runway, I would have to resist speculating on new operators/destinations.

With the substantial investment that AGS are making I am sure that their business case for it included definition of potential new destinations, and thereby the additional revenue that can be generated, to ensure a return on it.
TCAS FAN

Lets hope the airport attracts additional / higher capacity with airbus type aircraft to Sun routes,I dont see domestic routes upgrading to this size of aircraft due to limited PAX demand
I received this email today from airport managemrnt"
Timescales for the project are as follows:

20th Jan - 3rd Apr - Enabling work, incl. set up of site compound
3rd Apr - 17th Aug - Main construction works"

Thanks
Mike
Southampton Airport

[stewyb]

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11389495]
TCAS FAN

Lets hope the airport attracts additional / higher capacity with airbus type aircraft to Sun routes,I dont see domestic routes upgrading to this size of aircraft due to limited PAX demand
I received this email today from airport managemrnt"
Timescales for the project are as follows:

20th Jan - 3rd Apr - Enabling work, incl. set up of site compound
3rd Apr - 17th Aug - Main construction works"

Thanks
Mike
Southampton Airport

So my timescales have been correct from the very beginning :ok:

[055166k]

Why did Air Berlin pull out and go to Bournemouth? Were they fed up of being terrified trying to operate off an aircraft carrier?

[Sotonsean]

Why did Air Berlin pull out and go to Bournemouth? Were they fed up of being terrified trying to operate off an aircraft carrier?

You have obviously posed two questions there with two sentences and the use of two "question marks".

Strange question to ask though, "were they fed up of being terrified trying to operate off an aircraft carrier"?

Really🤔

To answer that childish question. Yes, that was the official statement from Air Berlin at the time, exact words as well.

Getting to the real question you posed.

Air Berlin were using a Boeing 737-800 on the Paderborn route. The Boeing 737-800 is not an ideal aircraft for the current runway at Southampton and this won't change even with the very short 164m extension.

Air Berlin obviously realised this and therefore eventually moved to Bournemouth. The flight to Paderborn did not remain at Bournemouth for long as it was cancelled within four months of moving from Southampton.

Air Berlin from Paderborn actually flew to Southampton for just under a year before it moved to Bournemouth.

Air Berlin opened up Paderborn to Southampton as the British Army had a major base in the German city which had close connections to the British army base's in Hampshire and Wiltshire.

Not long after Air Berlin commenced Paderborn to Southampton it was announced that the British army would be leaving the Paderborn area. After that announcement along with less than expected passenger figures it was fairly obvious that the market for the flight was limited hence why it was finally cancelled.

[rog747]

TUI Airways does not fly its own holidays charters from SOU -

For the past 2 years they have bought seats on BACF's scheduled Palma flights and in 2022, and for 2023 actually charter their own aircraft.

2 a week for Palma using BACF 98 seat EMB190's.

A sensible load to sell - and they still offer holidays on the BA scheduled Palma flights as well (3 a week) if they fill their own up.


Future routes - ?

We know it will always be an 'Airbus airline' should any Leisure routes attract an airline wishing to dip their toe in at SOU.


Jet2 (and Jet2 Holidays) are getting new A320N's, but they do not do any 'W' pattern flying from their UK Bases.

So it would be a huge gamble for them to make a new year round Base at SOU.

Winter flights are always popular to the Canary Islands and Madeira, so of course the performance/payload issues could restrict a SOU operation, until we know more later.


However Jet2 Holidays is a very strong brand and would scare the s*** out of TUI at BOH if they did come to SOU.


TUI did really well with its own Base at DSA Doncaster - but it was only them that used the Airport, and all was very seasonal.


Other routes needed back are AF CDG and LH FRA, plus an EI DUB service that actually connects with their USA/Canada flights interlining at DUB

Liverpool would be great, it's a ghastly long drive, or an all day train ride.


BACF dropped Florence, Nice, and Berlin before they even started - I think those, plus Venice, Munich, and Barcelona are great routes with the right size a/c.

[TCAS FAN]

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11389495]
TCAS FAN

Lets hope the airport attracts additional / higher capacity with airbus type aircraft to Sun routes,I dont see domestic routes upgrading to this size of aircraft due to limited PAX demand
I received this email today from airport managemrnt"
Timescales for the project are as follows:

20th Jan - 3rd Apr - Enabling work, incl. set up of site compound
3rd Apr - 17th Aug - Main construction works"

Thanks
Mike
Southampton Airport

As yet the Minutes from the 3 February Consultative Committee meeting have not appeared on the EBC website, maybe later today?. When they do it is expected that the Airport Ops Director's Report will include the amended work schedule.

The "Draft Schedule" presented at the 7 October meeting indicated that the main construction (ie including what CAA had to sign off) was scheduled 1 March-25 July with the "Runway go live" on 1 August.

We can only speculate that the slightly delayed schedule now indicated could have been caused by the wait for the CAA sign off.

The recent post about CAA Board holding their recent meeting at SOU is indeed encouraging. That said, I have today seen the next batch of AIP Supplements that become effective on 9 March. Nothing there relating to the runway extension project. Again, another possible indication that CAA project approval may have been delayed.

IMHO the delay with publication of the AIP Supplement shouldn't further delay the kick off. The 3 April start could initially be covered by a NOTAM which could then be superseded by a Supplement, which should appear on the NATS website during the last week of March to become effective from 6 April.

Hopefully we are almost there, maybe the new SOU construction App will announce the CAA project sign off?

[Le Tirer]

Air Berlin obviously realised this and therefore eventually moved to Bournemouth. The flight to Paderborn did not remain at Bournemouth for long as it was cancelled within four months of moving from Southampton..

While I'm not sure why this has been brought up more than 15 years later, I feel obliged to correct the post.

The Paderborn flight operated from Bournemouth from December 2005 until October 2007 which I make 23 months or rather more than 4 months! While winter loads were not great, July to October consistently saw over 3,000 passengers per month on the 3 days a week service.
July 06 - October 06 13,825
July 07 - October 07 13,975

The highest monthly passenger numbers were in July 2007 with 3,921 or around 150 per flight based on 26 flights in the month. In fact the last 4 months of the service saw some of the highest loads - possibly connected with the troop withdrawal?

LT

[zantopst]

Re: plus an EI DUB service that actually connects with their USA/Canada flights interlining at DUB

checking the Aer Lingus website would seem to indicate many of the USA and Canada flights are bookable as a through connection via Dublin.

[BACsuperVC10]

TUI Airways does not fly its own holidays charters from SOU -

For the past 2 years they have bought seats on BACF's scheduled Palma flights and in 2022, and for 2023 actually charter their own aircraft.

2 a week for Palma using BACF 98 seat EMB190's.

A sensible load to sell - and they still offer holidays on the BA scheduled Palma flights as well (3 a week) if they fill their own up.


Future routes - ?

We know it will always be an 'Airbus airline' should any Leisure routes attract an airline wishing to dip their toe in at SOU.


Jet2 (and Jet2 Holidays) are getting new A320N's, but they do not do any 'W' pattern flying from their UK Bases.

So it would be a huge gamble for them to make a new year round Base at SOU.

Winter flights are always popular to the Canary Islands and Madeira, so of course the performance/payload issues could restrict a SOU operation, until we know more later.


However Jet2 Holidays is a very strong brand and would scare the s*** out of TUI at BOH if they did come to SOU.


TUI did really well with its own Base at DSA Doncaster - but it was only them that used the Airport, and all was very seasonal.


Other routes needed back are AF CDG and LH FRA, plus an EI DUB service that actually connects with their USA/Canada flights interlining at DUB

Liverpool would be great, it's a ghastly long drive, or an all day train ride.


BACF dropped Florence, Nice, and Berlin before they even started - I think those, plus Venice, Munich, and Barcelona are great routes with the right size a/c.

I used to fly from Liverpool to Southampton quite often, it was a very convenient and popular link. Would be good to see it back, as you say surface transport is slow.

[rog747]

Re: plus an EI DUB service that actually connects with their USA/Canada flights interlining at DUB,
checking the Aer Lingus website would seem to indicate many of the USA and Canada flights are bookable as a through connection via Dublin.

Yes, thanks I see now that for summer 2023 there is a morning DUB at 09:15 from 27/03/23-28/10/23 daily, except SUN, when the flight awkwardly leaves at 12:55, arrives DUB 14:20,
and there is also a 10:40 DUB on a SAT with British Airways BA2938, High Season only 16/07/23-03/09/23
(also a ONE WORLD partner)

and more Votes for LPL Liverpool please (which could feed IOM too?)
Perhaps EI could op SOU-LPL-BHD on one of their 2 dailys >?

[Musket90]

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11390835][QUOTE=RW20;11390545]

" I have today seen the next batch of AIP Supplements that become effective on 9 March. Nothing there relating to the runway extension project. Again, another possible indication that CAA project approval may have been delayed.

IMHO the delay with publication of the AIP Supplement shouldn't further delay the kick off. The 3 April start could initially be covered by a NOTAM which could then be superseded by a Supplement, which should appear on the NATS website during the last week of March to become effective from 6 April."

Just wondering if the construction was done overnight when the airport was closed then is an AIP Supplement needed if normal operations are not affected when the airport is open ?

[TCAS FAN]

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11390835][QUOTE=RW20;11390545]

" I have today seen the next batch of AIP Supplements that become effective on 9 March. Nothing there relating to the runway extension project. Again, another possible indication that CAA project approval may have been delayed.

IMHO the delay with publication of the AIP Supplement shouldn't further delay the kick off. The 3 April start could initially be covered by a NOTAM which could then be superseded by a Supplement, which should appear on the NATS website during the last week of March to become effective from 6 April."

Just wondering if the construction was done overnight when the airport was closed then is an AIP Supplement needed if normal operations are not affected when the airport is open ?

If there is no operational impact on runway operations technically the answer would be “no”. However the cost of achieving this would excessively escalate the cost of the project.

The need would be to ensure that the current runway strip-end and RESA requirements are always available together with the RWY 20 runway approach lighting.

[Musket90]

Thanks TCAS - I assume the RESA requirements during the work would have been checked by CAA in the approval process (which presumably they have). I think any temporary impact on approach lights could be covered by Notam. Stansted seems to be doing this for any lighting downgrade during their present runway work..

[TCAS FAN]

Thanks TCAS - I assume the RESA requirements during the work would have been checked by CAA in the approval process (which presumably they have). I think any temporary impact on approach lights could be covered by Notam. Stansted seems to be doing this for any lighting downgrade during their present runway work..

The RESA requirements are continuously in force to reduce the possibility of damage to an aircraft in the event of an overrun or undershoot.

Protection in the event of an overrun or undershoot is provided firstly by a "runway strip" which extends 60 metres beyond the end of the runway available for take-off, and before the threshold, ie the earliest point available for landing. Secondly by a RESA which extends for a further minimum of 90 metres beyond the strip end.

SOU has a standard 60 metres strip end and the minimum 90 RESA for both runways.

The project plan submitted to CAA will have to demonstrate how the strip end and RESA are going to be safeguarded. If one or both cannot, the runway declared distances will need to be temporarily reduced.

Reduction of RWY 20 declared distances, involving a reduced LDA, is not really an option as, due to the insetting of a temporary threshold (which is already 45 metres inset from the north end of the runway) it will prevent use of a ILS IAP and will require the expense of provision of temporary PAPIs. Apart from this it will reduce the LDA which could be unacceptable to current scheduled operators, particularly Loganair, KLM and City Flyer.

Any reduction of RWY 20 LDA would impact on RWY 02 TORA/ASDA and LDA.

Consequently I am waiting with interest to see how AGS are going to manage the strip end and RESA issue, which should be revealed in the AIP Supplement.

If it will not be possible to ensure approach lighting for RWY 20 during the project this will require a temporary raising of approach minima for RWY 20, but as we are looking at the weather during summer months this may be tolerable.

[TCAS FAN]

[QUOTE=stewyb;11388240]

Ahead of this should be the Ops Director's report to the 3 February meeting of the Airport Consultative Committee, for which I understand that the Minutes will be on the EBC website by the end of this week. If all is still on schedule for a 31 March kick-off the "official" notification of the construction project should appear with the next batch of AIP Supplements, which should appear on the NATS AIS website around 28Feb/1 Mar.

The Minutes of the 3 February Airport Consultative Committee Meeting finally appeared on the EBC website.

Total non event with nothing that we did not already know.

https://meetings.eastleigh.gov.uk/documents/g7015/Printed%20minutes%20Friday%2003-Feb-2023%2014.00%20Airport%20Consultative%20Committee.pdf?T=1

[stewyb]

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11389239]

The Minutes of the 3 February Airport Consultative Committee Meeting finally appeared on the EBC website.

Total non event with nothing that we did not already know.

https://meetings.eastleigh.gov.uk/documents/g7015/Printed%20minutes%20Friday%2003-Feb-2023%2014.00%20Airport%20Consultative%20Committee.pdf?T=1

forecast pax for 2023 of 850k. Where are those extra 250k coming from?

[adfly]

As a guess, extra capacity from Aer Lingus and Loganair on BHD/DUB/EDI/GLA/NCL would probably account for about half of that.

[stewyb]

As a guess, extra capacity from Aer Lingus and Loganair on BHD/DUB/EDI/GLA/NCL would probably account for about half of that.

Which will be offset somewhat by a reduced BACF summer schedule

[SouthernAlliance]

EZY flights for W23/24 (Dec-Mar) on sale this Thursday. Apart from GVA do we reckon any further destinations will be added?

[SKOJB]

EZY flights for W23/24 (Dec-Mar) on sale this Thursday. Apart from GVA do we reckon any further destinations will be added?

You would have to believe that sooner rather than later the airport will want to announce some additional routes in order to justify the new runway financial outlay!

[SWBKCB]

You would have to believe that sooner rather than later the airport will want to announce some additional routes in order to justify the new runway financial outlay!

Who do they need to justify it to? Any annoucements will be aimed at maximising bookings.

[SKOJB]

Who do they need to justify it to? Any annoucements will be aimed at maximising bookings.

Their shareholders possibly, it’s called return on investment

[RW20]

Their shareholders possibly, it’s called return on investment
As previously mentioned the extension is two fold,one to allow existing aircraft to operate in challenging conditions i.e. temperature highs,and to allow full loads on A320 types to Med destinations . With the financial squeeze on ,this will not be happening over night,expect some small development 2024,and hopefully route increases 2025


​​​​​​

[SWBKCB]

Their shareholders possibly, it’s called return on investment

Don't think that will need public announcements.

[TCAS FAN]

Few on this thread will know that today marks the retirement of one of Southampton’s longest serving Air Traffic Controllers, David Reynolds. From a young trainee in the 1980s until today he has been a consummate professional which I had the privilege to work with.

A long and happy retirement mate.

[The Nutts Mutts]

No more F-15s at SOU then! Happy retirement Dave, an ATC legend.

[TCAS FAN]

Latest batch of AIP supplements, effective 6 April, published today, nothing related to the runway extension project, however, NATS AIM today also published NOTAM C1514/23
Q)EGTT/QFAAH/IV/BO/A/000/999/5057N00121W005B)2303260530 C)2306262115 E)AD OPERATING HOURS
MON-SAT 0530-2100
SUN 0630-2100
ANY EXTENSION TO OPR HR WILL ONLY BE GRANTED IN EXCEPTIONAL
CIRCUMSTANCES DUE TO RWY EXTENSION WORKS AND ONLY WITH PERMISSION OF
AIRPORT DUTY MANAGER (02380 697924)

Could indicate that all or most of the work will take place at night with the RWY strip ends/RESAs restored each day.

Awaiting the next instalment! We may get the project unfolding in bite sized portions via NOTAMs rather than an overview via an SI. That said, good to see that things are at last apparently moving

[globetrotter79]

Southampton - paris orly has appeared within the eastern airways booking engine (although no flts loaded yet).

[commit aviation]

Southampton - paris orly has appeared within the eastern airways booking engine (although no flts loaded yet).
According to the Eastern thread it will operate EMA-ORY-SOU-ORY-CWL-ORY-EMA
A "W pattern" on steroids and an operational nightmare to recover when it goes wrong.

[rog747]

According to the Eastern thread it will operate EMA-ORY-SOU-ORY-CWL-ORY-EMA
A "W pattern" on steroids and an operational nightmare to recover when it goes wrong.

also, SOU-Paris flights....ORY does NOT connect/interline with AF long haul from CDG

AF long haul from Orly is only to the ex French Colonies in Ivory Coast, North Africa, Reunion, Martinique and Guadeloupe

Doubt we will be able to use Virgin Flying Club rewards points on this flight, or get through fares (unlike we can on the SOU-AMS KLM interline long haul flights)

so frankly not a very forward step for SOU IMO

[RW20]

According to the Eastern thread it will operate EMA-ORY-SOU-ORY-CWL-ORY-EMA
A "W pattern" on steroids and an operational nightmare to recover when it goes wrong.
Although we all must welcome the return of Paris flights from SOU ,I cant see this lastng long term,tne airport needs a dedicated Paris service linking in with international connections,may be Air France for the future

[Cazza_fly]

According to the Eastern thread it will operate EMA-ORY-SOU-ORY-CWL-ORY-EMA
A "W pattern" on steroids and an operational nightmare to recover when it goes wrong.

As someone who used to work in airline operations, this schedule gives me nightmares! The fog in both Paris and Southampton is going to cause a logistical nightmare for getting that plane back to EMA anywhere near on time every evening. I'd guess it will be CWL that takes the hit the most for cancellations.

[willy wombat]

Excuse my ignorance but who is taking the commercial risk on these new Paris flights? If it is Eastern, I do not see them lasting long. It would be brave enough starting one new route to Paris but three at once??? And additionally, as pointed out, it looks an operational nightmare. Is there any catch up time (firebreak) built into the schedule?

[Jn14:6]

Southampton Airport email states an ATR-72 will be used.

[cavokblues]

Looks like a E170 from the seat plan on the Eastern booking engine

[SWBKCB]

Easterns press release says Atr-72

[stewyb]

Runway extension works officially kick off this Friday 31st!

[ATNotts]

Runway extension works officially kick off this Friday 31st!
At least its not the following day!

[BOHEuropean]

Looks like a E170 from the seat plan on the Eastern booking engine

Showing 72 seats for flight on 14th April, so ATR 72?

[cavokblues]

I'm sure when I looked at a random date in July it showed 19 rows making a 76 seat config so I thought it would be the 170

[stewyb]

I'm sure when I looked at a random date in July it showed 19 rows making a 76 seat config so I thought it would be the 170

A jet on that route would be preferable

[Asturias56]

A jet on that route would be preferable

but would it make any money?

[adfly]

A jet on that route would be preferable

Would it? It's a very short flight so any speed and comfort improvements offer little advantage, and the increase in operating costs (mostly fuel) would be substantial.

I couldn't see much justification for a jet on the route unless you got to the point where 3/4 ATR's a day was insufficient capacity, and that alone seems some way off.

[stewyb]

1hr 20 to Paris is not great, you do that to GVA or 50min with KLM to AMS which is further. Get the point with regards to cost saving in an ATR but just don’t see T3 as a long term alternative, in fact not even short term. Think T3 will warm up the route for a future AF/HOP takeover

[Asturias56]

"1hr 20 to Paris is not great, "

yea but it gets you to Orly - which is a lot easier to get to/from on the ground than CDG - the traffic up there is horrendous. It's not flight times that are important - its journey times

[cavokblues]

Amusingly the Eastern Airways booking system on their website hasn't yet taken into account the time difference between the UK and France, so it's showing it ia 2 hrs 25 mins outbound from Southampton to Orly and a short 25 min hop back.

[cavokblues]

According to ACL's report for S23 Eastern requested slots for EDI, Cork and Sumburgh.

Blue Islands asked for EMA and NCL.

Loganair asked for Stornoway.

Also looks like BACF will be flying to Bologna this summer.

[dixi188]

Amusingly the Eastern Airways booking system on their website hasn't yet taken into account the time difference between the UK and France, so it's showing it ia 2 hrs 25 mins outbound from Southampton to Orly and a short 25 min hop back.
I think those timings do take account of the 1 hour time difference.

[cavokblues]

I should have been clearer - the duration is down as 2hrs 25m and 25 mins.

[SKOJB]

According to ACL's report for S23 Eastern requested slots for EDI, Cork and Sumburgh.

Blue Islands asked for EMA and NCL.

Loganair asked for Stornoway.

Also looks like BACF will be flying to Bologna this summer.

Didn’t BE try for ORY before going pop? Don’t reckon any of these routes are happening however

[dixi188]

I should have been clearer - the duration is down as 2hrs 25m and 25 mins.
Gotcha.
I always liked the idea that Concorde arrived in New York before it left london. Never got the chance though.

[Asturias56]

Woop woop - managed it once from Paris New York - think we took off at 11:00 and arrived just before 09:00 to an empty JFK arrivals

[SealinkBF]

According to ACL's report for S23 Eastern requested slots for EDI, Cork and Sumburgh.

Blue Islands asked for EMA and NCL.

Loganair asked for Stornoway.

Also looks like BACF will be flying to Bologna this summer.

Does this mean they want to fly Southampton to Sumburgh? If so at least they aren't taking on Loganair again! Sorry if I have misunderstood.

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2023-03-31/work-begins-on-controversial-expansion-of-southampton-airport

[SouthernAlliance]

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2023-03-31/work-begins-on-controversial-expansion-of-southampton-airport

Good news and at last it has begun, just hope they have an airline/s lined up asap to offer some much needed route expansion!

[SKOJB]

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2023-03-31/work-begins-on-controversial-expansion-of-southampton-airport

Guess this will now put a stop to a few posters on this thread doubting this project would ever take off, they won’t be missed with their continued pessimism. Now to wait and see if/when some new airlines and routes will materialise. I did read somewhere recently of rumours in Hungary that EZY will be operating BUD

[SWBKCB]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who can't wait for it to be finished.

[Pain in the R's]

I suspect there will be a great deal of frustration when the runway is open. So what is deemed as a success or a failure? I think there will only be the odd flight that needs the extra length but we will wait and see.

[LBA]

According to ACL's report for S23 Eastern requested slots for EDI, Cork and Sumburgh.

Blue Islands asked for EMA and NCL.

Loganair asked for Stornoway.

Also looks like BACF will be flying to Bologna this summer.

Blue Islands EMA and NCL are charters

[CharlieYankee]

Blue Islands EMA and NCL are charters

Football related I presume?

[Wallsendmag]

Football related I presume?
Southampton play Newcastle on the 30th

[rog747]

work finally starts on the runway - spades are out digging - Expect works to be completed by the end of AUG (they say the 17th)

so look out for Summer 2024 for new routes and new airlines >>> if we get lucky !

[SouthernAlliance]

work finally starts on the runway - spades are out digging - Expect works to be completed by the end of AUG (they say the 17th)

so look out for Summer 2024 for new routes and new airlines >>> if we get lucky !

I wonder if there will be anything added for W23?

[rog747]

I wonder if there will be anything added for W23?

There is a ''rumour'' that EZY was looking at flying in from Budapest...
They do of course have their popular winter GVA flights which have seen increased services - as has their GVA-BOH too.

[SouthernAlliance]

There is a ''rumour'' that EZY was looking at flying in from Budapest...
They do of course have their popular winter GVA flights which have seen increased services - as has their GVA-BOH too.

Neither SOU or BUD are bases so flying a W pattern

[SWBKCB]

There is a ''rumour'' that EZY was looking at flying in from Budapest...
They do of course have their popular winter GVA flights which have seen increased services - as has their GVA-BOH too.

Is that from #1347?If so, we are in danger of creating a self re-inforcing cycle!

[shamrock7seal]

If easyJet were to set up an operation at SOU I would expect the routes to be Malaga, Alicante, Faro, Palma, Ibiza, Menorca and maybe even Bordeaux, Amsterdam and Paris.

[SouthernAlliance]

If easyJet were to set up an operation at SOU I would expect the routes to be Malaga, Alicante, Faro, Palma, Ibiza, Menorca and maybe even Bordeaux, Amsterdam and Paris.

Also BFS, EDI, BER, NCE, BCN, BUD may be possibilities

[davidjohnson6]

Why would SOU-BUD be a priority for Easyjet ? Their other routes to Budapest are to significant Easyjet bases... they don't even fly Milan-Budapest. I don't recall SOU-BUD being of importance for Flybe pre Covid

[RW20]

The talk of easy jet running to all the quoted destinations from a base at SOU is pie in sky,simply there is not enough stands to accommodate the aircraft needed,and more importantly the demand is not there,given a A320 passengers capacity.There might be a limited number of sun routes introduced in 2024 on a a W pattern,by one of the big carriers ,but primarily the extension will allow existing airlines like Loganair to operate fully on challenging weather days.

[AirportPlanner1]

Has someone misread BOD (Bordeaux) for BUD (Budapest)?

Bordeaux is far more plausible given it is a base and the French regional network from SOU has in the past been strong

[SouthernAlliance]

The talk of easy jet running to all the quoted destinations from a base at SOU is pie in sky,simply there is not enough stands to accommodate the aircraft needed,and more importantly the demand is not there,given a A320 passengers capacity.There might be a limited number of sun routes introduced in 2024 on a a W pattern,by one of the big carriers ,but primarily the extension will allow existing airlines like Loganair to operate fully on challenging weather days.

RW20 - take off those rose tinted BOH spectacles and get real, you cannot honestly believe SOU has any less demand than BOH, they seem to do ok with RYR and the catchment for SOU is huge so to suggest otherwise is quite frankly crazy!

[SWBKCB]

RW20 - take off those rose tinted BOH spectacles and get real, you cannot honestly believe SOU has any less demand than BOH, they seem to do ok with RYR and the catchment for SOU is huge so to suggest otherwise is quite frankly crazy!

Everybody is just guessing at the moment.

[ATNotts]

Everybody is just guessing at the moment.
I would say trips to fantasy land!

[Rivet Joint]

Anyone else starting to believe that the individual named after a runway of an airport it hates with a passion is actually an alter ego of another poster on here? Would explain the lack of logic on display if it’s merely a troll account looking to get bites.

[FRatSTN]

This speculation of routes is exactly that... speculation. The runway extension will give a flight ops performance benefit to incumbent carriers and may open up new opportunities to some larger airframes on a likely seasonal, inbound basis. Why would EZY specifically look to introduce a base at SOU with such strong network positions in LGW and BRS? Given they closed 3 UK bases during Covid with no sign of re-opening I'd consider an EZY base at SOU highly unlikely. They surely have bigger fish to fry.

[Albert Hall]

From what I’m led to believe, the prospect of an EasyJet base is so low as to be non-existent. Opportunities for away-based flying into SOU from bases in Spain and France are rather higher. It’s fanciful to be setting out notions as to what they would do with two or three based 319s or 320s.

[RW20]

I'm sure we will see some additional Sun flights on a low frequency basis in 2024,but inbounds and not based.
At least the airport future is more secure with the extension.

[stewyb]

I’m fairly certain there will be a summer seasonal programme of away based flights, most likely from EZY, to the likes of PMI, FAO and AGP with 3/4/5 weekly frequency that mirrors SEN. Beyond that I am not sure although wouldn’t rule out a few winter European city destinations and summer french regionals of NCE and BOD etc. Demand is certainly there and it will be interesting to see how the airport progresses over the next few months!

[Pain in the R's]

So what will be the ILS categories for each end of the runway? What will be the minimums?

[Pain in the R's]

So what will be the ILS categories for each end of the runway? What will be the minimums?

It seems that either no one knows or it is not good so shouldn’t be discussed. I can’t see it being above Cat 1, but Cat 1 is not good in this day and age. Looking at Google satellite view it looks like only runway 20 has an ILS while runway 02 has to make do with visual approaches. Both sets of approach lights seem to be very limited and once the runway is extended will there even be any approach lights for runway 20 as the railway sidings will get in the way?

[TCAS FAN]

The issues that you have raised have been discussed on this thread on many occasions.

RWY 20 has a CAT 1 ILS, unlikely to ever change. RWY 02 has IAPs, including a RNP IAP, also never likely to change.

RWY 20 approach lighting configuration will not change, apart from current elevated light fittings will be inset into the new paved surface.

[gkmeech]

It seems that either no one knows or it is not good so shouldn’t be discussed. I can’t see it being above Cat 1, but Cat 1 is not good in this day and age. Looking at Google satellite view it looks like only runway 20 has an ILS while runway 02 has to make do with visual approaches. Both sets of approach lights seem to be very limited and once the runway is extended will there even be any approach lights for runway 20 as the railway sidings will get in the way?

Approach lights won’t change as touchdown position for 20 remains unchanged due glide slope requirements over railway works. Remember this is only a ‘starter strip’ extension.

[TCAS FAN]

............................ Remember this is only a ‘starter strip’ extension.

Not technically correct Graham.

Firstly the maximum length of a starter strip is 150 metres.

What is being constructed is an integral part of the runway. While only used on RWY 20 to extend the TORA/ASDA/TODA, according to the proposed extended declared distance shown in the Planning Application, it is also to be partially used to extend the RWY 02 LDA/TORA/ASDA/TODA, something that you cannot do if classified as a starter strip.

[rog747]

Neither SOU or BUD are bases so flying a W pattern

Thanks, sorry I am not up to speed as to where EZY have fleet bases overseas - Hence BUD-SOU was obviously just a Pprune Rumour
LOL!
Nor do EZY do any flying on a W pattern afaik.


RYR do fly BUD-BOH...

[SKOJB]

Not technically correct Graham.

Firstly the maximum length of a starter strip is 150 metres.

What is being constructed is an integral part of the runway. While only used on RWY 20 to extend the TORA/ASDA/TODA, according to the proposed extended declared distance shown in the Planning Application, it is also to be partially used to extend the RWY 02 LDA/TORA/ASDA/TODA, something that you cannot do if classified as a starter strip.

Correct, a starter strip it is not. The extension north forms part of the main runway, not like RWY 05 at SEN where you can clearly see a starter strip of 135m and only 30m in width

[easyflyer83]

Thanks, sorry I am not up to speed as to where EZY have fleet bases overseas - Hence BUD-SOU was obviously just a Pprune Rumour
LOL!
Nor do EZY do any flying on a W pattern afaik.


RYR do fly BUD-BOH...

EZY do do some W patterns and used to operate triangles as well.

I definitely wouldn’t rule out out some out of base EZY’s from the seasonal bases on and around the Iberian peninsula. I’m not envisaging a base mind.

[RW20]

TCAS FAN
Can you remind me what the TODA for RW20 after the extension is complete?,I guess also 02 LDA will increase.
​​​

[TCAS FAN]

TCAS FAN
Can you remind me what the TODA for RW20 after the extension is complete?,I guess also 02 LDA will increase.
​​​

Here are the projected declared distances from an earlier post of mine when I was comparing them with SEN. The final version will be subject to CAA approval following completion of work and an “as built” runway survey being completed. The latter could cause a delay before the distances become operationally useable due to the approval process.

SOU RWY 02 (M) (SEN RWY 05)
TORA 1745 (1739)
TODA 1805 (1799)
ASDA 1745 (1739)
LDA 1673 (1604)

SOU RWY 20 (M) (SEN RWY 23)
TORA 1814 (1739)
TODA 1874 (1799)
ASDA 1814 (1799)
LDA 1605 (1604)

[RW20]

Thank you,very interesting, in all departments greater then SEN!
Lets hope the distances are serviceable ASAP,allowing operators to consider routes for 2024.

[SouthernAlliance]

Here are the projected declared distances from an earlier post of mine when I was comparing them with SEN. The final version will be subject to CAA approval following completion of work and an “as built” runway survey being completed. The latter could cause a delay before the distances become operationally useable due to the approval process.

SOU RWY 02 (M) (SEN RWY 05)
TORA 1745 (1739)
TODA 1805 (1799)
ASDA 1745 (1739)
LDA 1673 (1604)

SOU RWY 20 (M) (SEN RWY 23)
TORA 1814 (1739)
TODA 1874 (1799)
ASDA 1814 (1799)
LDA 1605 (1604)

With those projected declarations, are these best suited to an Airbus or Boeing fleet? Only ask as SEN had both types operating using slightly less distances!

[willy wombat]

As I’m sure TCAS FAN will tell you, you also have to consider obstacles when looking at performance.

[commit aviation]

I think the obstacle environment will be the challenge here. Not an expert on it but I'm pretty sure TCAS FAN will have the info to hand

[dixi188]

I don't understand the quoted distances for SEN, as from GE the paved runway is about 1970 meters, so the ASDA should be around this figure.
Long time since I did performance in the classroom.

[TCAS FAN]

I don't understand the quoted distances for SEN, as from GE the paved runway is about 1970 meters, so the ASDA should be around this figure.
Long time since I did performance in the classroom.

To me the give away is the number of 1799M declared distances. This indicates to me that SEN's runway is classified as a Code 3 runway, which the maximum for any declared TORA/ASDA/TODA is 1799M. SOU is classified as a Code 4 runway, so the 1799 restriction does not apply.

[TCAS FAN]

As I’m sure TCAS FAN will tell you, you also have to consider obstacles when looking at performance.

Correct, but this is a complex issue which I believe will vary between aircraft types/power-plants, and is something that I am not competent to comment on.

[TCAS FAN]

I think the obstacle environment will be the challenge here. Not an expert on it but I'm pretty sure TCAS FAN will have the info to hand

Moving the start of TORA away from the obstacles will be beneficial, but some obstacles may still impact on take-off performance, albeit less than they currently do.

Unfortunately AGS's attempts to resolve the main tree issue by purchase of Marhill Copse and subsequent action to reduce tree height therein were thwarted by Southampton City Council. Had they have been successful, this would have been the icing on the cake.

Discounting the Marhill Copse tree issue, I would think that AGS would have assessed, during formulation of their business case, the improved performance issue with input from prospective operators to quantify exactly the additional destinations that could be served by the extended runway. Until the extension is done and dusted cannot envisage that they are going to reveal this information.

From what I see on the current RWY 20 Type A Obstacle Charts there are other problem trees between Marhill Copse and the southern end of runway. which may not be subject to TPOs. If any of these impact on take-off performance, time to start talking again to the City Council and/or land owner? The surveyors will be back to do the "as built" runway survey, they could easily do an update to the Type A charts at the same time.

[Dropoffcharge]

are these best suited to an Airbus or Boeing fleet?

Suited or not, where would this supposed Boeing fleet actually come from? Ryanair have categorically stated SOU does not suit them, nor Jet2 as they are not looking to expand elsewhere anytime soon, TUI, very slim to zero chance of them coming to SOU due to bases at EXT and BOH.

[SouthernAlliance]

Suited or not, where would this supposed Boeing fleet actually come from? Ryanair have categorically stated SOU does not suit them, nor Jet2 as they are not looking to expand elsewhere anytime soon, TUI, very slim to zero chance of them coming to SOU due to bases at EXT and BOH.

That wasn’t my question, just wanted to know if the revised airfield performance chart favoured one type more than the other!

[cavokblues]

I'm not saying Ryanair would go but I would take their comments about Southampton with a pinch of salt.

The quote from them about it not being 'top of their list' was at Bournemouth airport where Ryanair were announcing an extra aircraft there and new destinations.

If a few incentives are offered on top sometimes I wonder if Ryanair are more likely to potentially base a single aircraft or so, as opposed to easyJet who don't tend to ever have such a low number of aircraft based at an airport.

[SWBKCB]

I'm not saying Ryanair would go but I would take their comments about Southampton with a pinch of salt.

The quote from them about it not being 'top of their list' was at Bournemouth airport where Ryanair were announcing an extra aircraft there and new destinations.

If a few incentives are offered on top sometimes I wonder if Ryanair are more likely to potentially base a single aircraft or so, as opposed to easyJet who don't tend to ever have such a low number of aircraft based at an airport.

Didn't O'Leary say something similar before then? Even if was first said at a BOH event, in response to a direct question, it would have ben easy to give a bland answer.

[cavokblues]

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/ryanair-boss-says-southampton-isnt-033100761.html

They seem fairly bland to me. Certainly not a categorical 'never.'

[SouthernAlliance]

O’Leary’s lot will go wherever the money and incentives are so I wouldn’t give those press releases too much substance

[Expressflight]

To me the give away is the number of 1799M declared distances. This indicates to me that SEN's runway is classified as a Code 3 runway, which the maximum for any declared TORA/ASDA/TODA is 1799M. SOU is classified as a Code 4 runway, so the 1799 restriction does not apply.
You are correct.

[055166k]

Why did Air Berlin move to Bournemouth? They were only operating to/from Paderborn (EDLP).

[SouthernAlliance]

Why did Air Berlin move to Bournemouth? They were only operating to/from Paderborn (EDLP).

Think they were using the 738 which was not suited to airfield performance

[SouthernAlliance]

Good to see the south coast increase it’s offering with BOH getting an additional TUI 738 for next summer. Isn’t it about time SOU followed and announced some new routes before they are left behind?

[Sotonsean]

Good to see the south coast increase it’s offering with BOH getting an additional TUI 738 for next summer. Isn’t it about time SOU followed and announced some new routes before they are left behind?

Unless airlines are committed how on earth are SOU expected to follow suit in announcing new routes.

It's the responsibility of airlines to announce new routes not Southampton Airport management.

SOU is already left behind I'm afraid, especially regarding routes to the Mediterranean.

[ATNotts]

Good to see the south coast increase it’s offering with BOH getting an additional TUI 738 for next summer. Isn’t it about time SOU followed and announced some new routes before they are left behind?
The problem for SOU is that they need to be able to tell airlines and tour operators precisely when the additional runway length is going to be commissioned but with the best will in the world building projects seldom get completed on time and no airline/tour operator is going to sell seats they aren't sure they'll be able to deliver (from the airport they are booked from).

[shamrock7seal]

Has everyone forgotten that SOU is doing really well already? The BA network is something that other UK airports would kill for.

[RW20]

The problem for SOU is that they need to be able to tell airlines and tour operators precisely when the additional runway length is going to be commissioned but with the best will in the world building projects seldom get completed on time and no airline/tour operator is going to sell seats they aren't sure they'll be able to deliver (from the airport they are booked from).
The problem is that the runway extension has been a long and protracted affair,even when all objections have been delt with only recently work has commenced .
The declared distances will probably not be forthcoming till the end of the year.With this being the case its probably to late for the 2024 season and airline planning for summer routes,in meantime BOH continues to expand and increase there PAX with new routes.

[TCAS FAN]

The problem is that the runway extension has been a long and protracted affair,even when all objections have been delt with only recently work has commenced .
The declared distances will probably not be forthcoming till the end of the year.With this being the case its probably to late for the 2024 season and airline planning for summer routes,in meantime BOH continues to expand and increase there PAX with new routes.

I would suggest that you are being a bit pessimistic in respect of the the formal notification of the extended declared distances.

The ball is firmly in AGS’s court to schedule the “as built” survey. Until the airport’s survey contractor has completed the survey, compiled the new Report and submitted it to NATS AIM, with a copy to their designated Aerodrome Inspector, nothing can happen.

NATS will verify the results, liaise with the Aerodrome Inspector, who will, acting on their verification, then rubber stamp the new distances. A NOTAM can then be sent by the Aerodrome Operator to formally notify the distances.

The time scale? I would have the surveyors on-site as soon as the paint markings have been applied. One day for the survey, allowing for disruptions caused by aircraft movements, one possibly two days for compilation of the new Report, then sent electronically to all recipients.

Even at the speed that NATS AIM and Aerodrome Inspectors work (from personal experience of the latter, not renowned for fast turnarounds) I would not be surprised if the much awaited NOTAM appears by early/mid September, possibly sooner if AGS get lucky.

[willy wombat]

Seems a bit pessimistic. What the new declared distances will be is well known and if I was (still) in airline management I would be confident about planning for S24 using them. I suspect that there are far more pertinent factors influencing airline planning at SOU than any doubts about the runway extension being completed for S24.

[MARKEYD]

Goodness me Summer 24 !!

Plenty of time to sort out a flight schedule from TUI , EasyJet or Cityflyer

[LTNman]

Has everyone forgotten that SOU is doing really well already? The BA network is something that other UK airports would kill for.


Sorry, are you having a laugh?

[pabely]

Has everyone forgotten that SOU is doing really well already? The BA network is something that other UK airports would kill for.
Don't read this then, https://simpleflying.com/uk-airports-17-million-passengers-february-2023/
SOU is in the worst recovered airports section.

[RW20]

These figures are are quite stark! ,and only underlines the need for Easy,or another airline to take up routes from SOU asap.

[davidjohnson6]

Proof of the runway extension pudding will come around December 2023 or January 2024 ?

[Sotonsean]

Proof of the runway extension pudding will come around December 2023 or January 2024 ?

Runway extension PUDDING 🤔

With your use of the unnecessary 'question mark' are you telling us this or actually posing a question.

[TCAS FAN]

We are now three weeks into the project, anyone an idea when the next update might appear on the development App?

[stewyb]

We are now three weeks into the project, anyone an idea when the next update might appear on the development App?

I hear all is going well and keeping to project timescales (early/mid Aug completion)

[LTNman]

I hear all is going well and keeping to project timescales (early/mid Aug completion)

This means November/ December with another few months added for approval of distances and checks.

[TCAS FAN]

I hear all is going well and keeping to project timescales (early/mid Aug completion)

Suggestion for AGS, a weekly drone view of progress, could then be incorporated into a time lapse record.

Plenty of local drone operators, who with the offer of repeat business over a
few months would no doubt be able to offer a very realistic price for their services.

[TCAS FAN]

This means November/ December with another few months added for approval of distances and checks.

Get real, bar a monsoon or the contractor going bust over the next few months cannot see any significant project overrun.

See my post 1403, if AGS get their act together the new declared distances should be available within a few weeks of project completion.

You mention “checks”, agree that friction testing and lighting checks are likely to be needed post construction completion. Should be scheduled in the project completion phase of their CAP 791 approval process.

[LTNman]

I have been watching different Luton projects for many years. Never seen one yet get finished even close to time. The latest one is a 4 stand Apron started last August. After 8 months it is still not finished.

[LTNman]

I lied, just found photos dated July of the apron under construction so that makes 9 months of work and it still isn’t complete. So SOU runway extension complete in 4 months? Unlikely. Realistically airlines will be looking at the summer 2024 season for using the extra length.

[SouthernAlliance]

The airport has uploaded latest pictures of the construction on their runway app and seems good progress is being made

[TCAS FAN]

The airport has uploaded latest pictures of the construction on their runway app and seems good progress is being made

A lot more could be seen with a few seconds of drone video footage.

[stewyb]

Rumours of a new base being announced by Jet2 soon, stranger things have happened and is exactly what the airport requires

[DC3 Dave]

Rumours of a new base being announced by Jet2 soon, stranger things have happened and is exactly what the airport requires

Think you may be half right. Just wrong about the hampton.

[rog747]

Sorry Guys and Ladies,
but how many times do we need to make you all aware that it's not gonna happen at SOU with Jet2, as the 737-800 flying economically into or out of SOU is not possible with the runway there, and with the clearway/obstacle clearance issues which are a way different criteria to that of Southend SEN.
Jet2 do have 737-300's for now, that are suitable.
Hence as to why also no TUI nor Ryanair seen at SOU.

The A320 is what is suitable for SOU but Jet2 do not take their new A320N deliveries until 2028.

Jet2's spiritual home is BOH, but in IMO I cannot see them going there and taking on an even bigger TUI and Ryanair there, who are both now basing 2 x 737's for S24.

[Pain in the R's]

Rumours of a new base being announced by Jet2 soon, stranger things have happened and is exactly what the airport requires

A rumour started by you no doubt. I would call it a fantasy.

[stewyb]

A rumour started by you no doubt. I would call it a fantasy.

Nope, taken off a Jet2 forum elsewhere

[rog747]

Nope, taken off a Jet2 forum elsewhere

Apart from flying their 737-300's in and out of SOU,
Jet2 would need to look (most very carefully) at the 189 seat 737-800NG FCOM and Ops manuals for the performance figures for SOU's runways.
They might be in for a shock when they find they can't get anywhere near a full load on in, or out flying non-stop to Palma, or even Gerona.
I doubt that they would have the stomach to take such an economic hit on the obvious payload limits, or face an expensive pop in to BOH for fuel on the way...
Not gonna happen.

IMO a new Jet2 base could be, with my money would go to: LPL, MME, CWL in that order; with EXT or BOH as rank outsiders.
***************

[pug]

Apart from flying their 737-300's in and out of SOU,
Jet2 would need to look (most very carefully) at the 189 seat 737-800NG FCOM and Ops manuals for the performance figures for SOU's runways.
They might be in for a shock when they find they can't get anywhere near a full load on in, or out flying non-stop to Palma, or even Gerona.
I doubt that they would have the stomach to take such an economic hit on the obvious payload limits, or face an expensive pop in to BOH for fuel on the way...
Not gonna happen.

IMO a new Jet2 base could be, with my money would go to: LPL, MME, CWL in that order; with EXT or BOH as rank outsiders.
***************

LPL close to MAN (but not impossible) MME wedged between LBA and NCL with a tiny core catchment area, don’t see the logic. CWL next door to their newest base.

LGW is the only logical next step if there really is to be a new base and assuming they do not change their strategy to focus on much smaller bases.

[VLCfkight]

LPL would seem the obvious choice for a number of reasons if this rumour is true. They are close enough to Manchester to staff the base from there intially, Liverpool has both the terminal capacity and more than sufficient stands available. A considerable number of their Manchest customers must surely come from the Lverpools City region and North Wales. Manchester has capacity problems during redevlopment - reported elsewhere that Easyjet have been told not to operate UK domestic departures from MAN because of this. There is no competition with any other full package holiday operator at Liverpool, - Easyjet holidays offering is somehat different to Jet2´s

[RW20]

A rumour started by you no doubt. I would call it a fantasy.
I cant see any airline like Jet 2,Easy etc operating a base out of SOU,first of all 737-800 operations area a non starter due to runway restrictions and obstacles,320 operations yes,but the airport opening hours restrictions preclude basing aircraft for operations. The main hope is W operations from european bases,this might happen in the future,but time will tale. SOU needs the Sun routes to make a profit,there's a longway to go before this happens.

[Pain in the R's]

SOU needs sun routes to pay for the runway expansion.

[rog747]

LPL close to MAN (but not impossible) MME wedged between LBA and NCL with a tiny core catchment area, don’t see the logic. CWL next door to their newest base.
LGW is the only logical next step if there really is to be a new base and assuming they do not change their strategy to focus on much smaller bases.

Southend's rumour mill is in melt down over Jet2's ''new base''
However,
I cannot see Jet2 coming to make a base at SEN (as much as folk and spotters may like it) because their newish base up the road at STN is doing rather well -
However the opportunity is there for them if they were to take the risk (but Jet2 tend not to take risks, and SEN's operational hours are too restrictive to an IT airline).

They won't IMHO, go to LGW - Jet2 like to self-handle, and I'm not sure they would be able to do that at LGW, plus the slots issue and the high costs.
As for LPL - seems possibly the highest poll votes amongst the current web chit chats lol.
The LPL catchment area is immense with no major Tour Operator competitor there so could be a player for Jet2.

If Jet2 had the A320N now then IMHO a SOU base for them offering summer holidays and ski would be a goer for their Commercial chaps to do their sums on.

[SKOJB]

Southend's rumour mill is in melt down over Jet2's ''new base''
However,
I cannot see Jet2 coming to make a base at SEN (as much as folk and spotters may like it) because their newish base up the road at STN is doing rather well -
However the opportunity is there for them if they were to take the risk (but Jet2 tend not to take risks, and SEN's operational hours are too restrictive to an IT airline).

They won't IMHO, go to LGW - Jet2 like to self-handle, and I'm not sure they would be able to do that at LGW, plus the slots issue and the high costs.
As for LPL - seems possibly the highest poll votes amongst the current web chit chats lol.
The LPL catchment area is immense with no major Tour Operator competitor there so could be a player for Jet2.

If Jet2 had the A320N now then IMHO a SOU base for them offering summer holidays and ski would be a goer for their Commercial chaps to do their sums on.

TUI seem to make their 738 work from NWI ok with a shorter runway?

[SWBKCB]

Damn flat in Norfolk, fewer obstacles.

[SKOJB]

Damn flat in Norfolk, fewer obstacles.

point taken, however the airport has always said that the runway will be viable for 320/737 ops once complete and it’s no secret that they are courting tour operators/LCC’s so to suggest that they won’t be going after the likes of Jet2 is probably naive. Also the airport boss is ex Jet2 director so this might assist in any conversations, assuming of course they departed on amicable terms!

[pug]

point taken, however the airport has always said that the runway will be viable for 320/737 ops once complete and it’s no secret that they are courting tour operators/LCC’s so to suggest that they won’t be going after the likes of Jet2 is probably naive. Also the airport boss is ex Jet2 director so this might assist in any conversations, assuming of course they departed on amicable terms!

It is not just theoretical take-off performance that should be considered, but rather each companies procedures for using things like de-rate where possible, which require longer take-off runs without payload restrictions. This is where you might have an issue, but that would be down to business and commercial decisions no doubt.

[SKOJB]

It is not just theoretical take-off performance that should be considered, but rather each companies procedures for using things like de-rate where possible, which require longer take-off runs without payload restrictions. This is where you might have an issue, but that would be down to business and commercial decisions no doubt..

Maybe although RYR didn’t see this as a problem at SEN when basing aircraft. I think they also used SFP models to aid field performance as well, of which I know Jet2 also have the same

[pug]

.

Maybe although RYR didn’t see this as a problem at SEN when basing aircraft. I think they also used SFP models to aid field performance as well, of which I know Jet2 also have the same

I understand Ryanair are perfectly happy to take off full chat. Different way of operating. Jet2 like to get a longer service life out of their engines and use of de-rate is common place. Not saying it’s a deal breaker as I wouldn’t know, but just things to consider. You can’t compare like for like.

[SouthernAlliance]

Mentioned on another site that EZY are looking to start routes once the extension is complete, would be great if true!

[Dropoffcharge]

Mentioned on another site that EZY are looking to start routes once the extension is complete, would be great if true!
Link to said site and info??

[rog747]

Link to said site and info??

Likewise, I too, have not seen any news or any rumours as to Easyjet making inroads to expand at SOU.

Only SEN Southend has seen EZY's small and cautious return there with 4 (very short season) routes - But a good sign though is that the uptake is most positive.

If Easyjet are making plans at SOU for a few summer leisure routes for Summer 2024 (especially if BACF do pull out of SOU)
then the likes of Faro, Palma, Malaga and possibly Venice are the main 'players' as EZY Euro have bases there.

EZY have no Canaries bases so not sure if they would be looked at, unless W flights were flown into SOU.
The Canaries anyway, are more than well covered from BOH LGW and BRS and those Islands are more busy in the winter.

EZY Switzerland do the winter GVA flights for SOU and BOH.
They also have a large Basel base, which used to be a very popular summer destination for Brits.

I doubt they will take on UK Domestics, although LPL GLA and MAN could be candidates -
The train or the drive from the SOU area to LPL and MAN is a nightmare and thus a Low Cost on those routes rather than a high cost niche local airline could work...
However their foray into BOH did not work with EDI BFS and LPL which was a short lived venture set up at a very weird and difficult time;
but BOH Domestics have never succeeded historically.

[SouthernAlliance]

Link to said site and info??

On the airport FB group that someone mentioned EZY were interested to start once runway done. How true I don’t know but wouldn’t be surprised if they added some med and French routes

[SWBKCB]

On the airport FB group that someone mentioned EZY were interested to start once runway done. How true I don’t know but wouldn’t be surprised if they added some med and French routes

Ah right! They probably read it on Pprune...

The sooner this runway gets finished, the better.

[ezyBoh]

The EZY BOH domestic services were to help keep crews current aswell as to promote a UK destination whilst mainland European destinations were closed. Some of the load factors were good, but as we know it's revenue etc and not the load factor that counts.

[rog747]

The EZY BOH domestic services were to help keep crews current as well as to promote a UK destination whilst mainland European destinations were closed. Some of the load factors were good, but as we know it's revenue etc and not the load factor that counts.

Many thanks - Yes I gather the BFS and EDI loads were pretty good but LPL was poor.

[BACsuperVC10]

Likewise, I too, have not seen any news or any rumours as to Easyjet making inroads to expand at SOU.

Only SEN Southend has seen EZY's small and cautious return there with 4 (very short season) routes - But a good sign though is that the uptake is most positive.

If Easyjet are making plans at SOU for a few summer leisure routes for Summer 2024 (especially if BACF do pull out of SOU)
then the likes of Faro, Palma, Malaga and possibly Venice are the main 'players' as EZY Euro have bases there.

EZY have no Canaries bases so not sure if they would be looked at, unless W flights were flown into SOU.
The Canaries anyway, are more than well covered from BOH LGW and BRS and those Islands are more busy in the winter.

EZY Switzerland do the winter GVA flights for SOU and BOH.
They also have a large Basel base, which used to be a very popular summer destination for Brits.

I doubt they will take on UK Domestics, although LPL GLA and MAN could be candidates -
The train or the drive from the SOU area to LPL and MAN is a nightmare and thus a Low Cost on those routes rather than a high cost niche local airline could work...
However their foray into BOH did not work with EDI BFS and LPL which was a short lived venture set up at a very weird and difficult time;
but BOH Domestics have never succeeded historically.


I went on a jolly for a day when EZY did LPL - BOH, times were crack of dawn , really not very inviting for many. Travelled back via BFS . BOH - BFS , not a bad load, BFS - LPL full. Nice day out sat on the beach in the sun.

[stewyb]

Surely it’s only a matter of timing before easyjet add capacity from the airport. Not necessarily to base aircraft but from other orange outposts and would predict S24 for this to happen. A lot of money is being spent on improving infrastructure for this exact scenario!

[SWBKCB]

Surely it’s only a matter of timing before easyjet add capacity from the airport. Not necessarily to base aircraft but from other orange outposts and would predict S24 for this to happen. A lot of money is being spent on improving infrastructure for this exact scenario!

Can we not call a truce on all this repeated speculation until something actually happens?

[stewyb]

Can we not call a truce on all this repeated speculation until something actually happens?

You mean like the speculation that we get all the time on nearly every other airport thread, MME being a prime example

[SWBKCB]

This thread gets the same repeated speculation - I agree that there must be some basis for the investment, but how many times does the same thing need to be repeated?

[RW20]

Absolutely, speculation that has been going on since the proposed runway extension was raised a few years ago!
Truth is there have been no concrete news from any carriers on Sun routes,and indeed it might not happen in 2024!, at least the new extension will give current carriers full capacity in challanging weathers.

[TCAS FAN]

The airport has uploaded latest pictures of the construction on their runway app and seems good progress is being made

With nothing posted since 25 April on the app and and the lack of Construction Updates on the SOU website, have to admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by the PR response to the runway extension project.

[RW20]

With nothing posted since 25 April on the app and and the lack of Construction Updates on the SOU website, have to admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by the PR response to the runway extension project.
TCAS FAN

latest update now viewable on SOU Runway app,looks like good progress,blast screen foundations have been laid.
Excellent response from constructors.
Concrete strength being tested.

[stewyb]

TCAS FAN

latest update now viewable on SOU Runway app,looks like good progress,blast screen foundations have been laid.
Excellent response from constructors.
Concrete strength being tested.

Excellent progress indeed RW20 and they seem to be cracking on with it at a decent rate, will be a valuable addition once complete!

[rog747]

TUI Holidays have SOU-PMI Mallorca holidays on sale for Summer 2024 from MAY - SEPT again using BACF charters on TUES and SAT

[RW20]

TUI Holidays have SOU-PMI Mallorca holidays on sale for Summer 2024 from MAY - SEPT again using BACF charters on TUES and SAT
Interesting!, So even with the runway ​​​​ extension are we going to see BACF only servicing the sun routes in 2024?

[inOban]

Nothing to stop TUI swapping to EZY if they offer a flight from their summer Palma base.

[LTNman]

With nothing posted since 25 April on the app and and the lack of Construction Updates on the SOU website, have to admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by the PR response to the runway extension project.

Probably because apart from the Pprune community no one would be interested.

[MARKEYD]

TUI Holidays have SOU-PMI Mallorca holidays on sale for Summer 2024 from MAY - SEPT again using BACF charters on TUES and SAT

TUI have copied and pasted the flight information from this year using BACF as a provisional operator for Saturday again

The Tuesday flight is the old Volotea flight’s and at the moment still has no operator

Once the extension is completed everyone will have a far better idea of what is in place going forward

[TCAS FAN]

Probably because apart from the Pprune community no one would be interested.

With the contractor apparently producing/managing an app and AGS adding provision for Construction Updates on the SOU website I would suggest that general public interest was/is anticipated, otherwise why spend the time and money producing them?

[Asturias56]

to fill out your time sheet I guess

[Sotonsean]

Probably because apart from the Pprune community no one would be interested.

Absolutely wrong I'm afraid.

No one with any interest in aviation other than my father has asked me about the progress regarding the runway extension.

On the other hand I'm been surprised by the amount of interest shown by work colleagues and friends who are interested in the progress of the runway extension. Non of them would have a clue about pprune. I don't personally know anyone on pprune other than myself. The majority of interest has been shown by those without any real interest in aviation but about the actual runway extension itself.

Regarding no one would be interested. The same could be said about the DART at Luton Airport.

[CabinCrewe]

The same could be said about the DART at Luton Airport.
Yet that was everywhere with people moaning because they actually had to pay to use it… who knew?!

[Sotonsean]

With the contractor apparently producing/managing an app and AGS adding provision for Construction Updates on the SOU website I would suggest that general public interest was/is anticipated, otherwise why spend the time and money producing them?

I hope you don't mind me asking but your usually a man who knows.

I have not read or seen anything recently regarding the northern taxiway. I have asked the airport on their LinkedIn page but with no real direct answer.

Do you know if it is going ahead as part of the construction of the runway extension. It would be a great shame if it wasn't built at the same time with the construction company and equipment already in place.

Regarding interest, as you rightly pointed out, lots of local interest regarding the long awaited runway extension. Perhaps the people of Luton don't take much interest in their local airport as we do.

[stewyb]

I hope you don't mind me asking but your usually a man who knows.

I have not read or seen anything recently regarding the northern taxiway. I have asked the airport on their LinkedIn page but with no real direct answer.

Do you know if it is going ahead as part of the construction of the runway extension. It would be a great shame if it wasn't built at the same time with the construction company and equipment already in place.

Regarding interest, as you rightly pointed out, lots of local interest regarding the long awaited runway extension. Perhaps the people of Luton don't take much interest in their local airport as we do.

No northern taxiway in this phase of construction (phase 2 I believe) and instead the current building works are concentrated on runway extension and stands 1-5 being reconfigured to accommodate x 4 320/737

[TCAS FAN]

No northern taxiway in this phase of construction (phase 2 I believe) and instead the current building works are concentrated on runway extension and stands 1-5 being reconfigured to accommodate x 4 320/737

Roll on Phase 2, in the mean time commiserations to the NATS Tower controllers, RWY 20 backtracks could often be a p-i-a, the extra 164 metres is going to increase the frequency of irritation.

[Sotonsean]

I'd like to assume that stands 2-5 are to be reconfigured to 3 A320 capable. I stated 3 stands as stands 2-5 are to supposed to be reconfigured. Stand 1 will eventually be lost to an extension to the terminal.

But I hope you are correct with that information when you state that it's actually going ahead at this time. Again I asked this question on the airports LinkedIn page a few months ago with no real direct answer.

Regarding "phase 2", when is that going to happen and what will it involve other than the northern taxiway.

I know that finances are tight but the airport would benefit from doing as much now as possible so that it's in a better state for any future expansion. If it's left to "later" it might not ever happen.

[stewyb]

I'd like to assume that stands 2-5 are to be reconfigured to 3 A320 capable. I stated 3 stands as stands 2-5 are to supposed to be reconfigured. Stand 1 will eventually be lost to an extension to the terminal.

But I hope you are correct with that information when you state that it's actually going ahead at this time. Again I asked this question on the airports LinkedIn page a few months ago with no real direct answer.

Regarding "phase 2", when is that going to happen and what will it involve other than the northern taxiway.

I know that finances are tight but the airport would benefit from doing as much now as possible so that it's in a better state for any future expansion. If it's left to "later" it might not ever happen.

Agreed that now would be an opportune time to add a taxiway from 14 out to runway (although not full length and never has been on current plans submitted). To confirm 1-5 is being made to 4 larger in the cul-de-sac, thus small stand 1 being incorporated within new footprint

[LTNman]

Regarding no one would be interested. The same could be said about the DART at Luton Airport.

Different as chalk and cheese. The runway extension is not being funded by the council taxpayer nor will it leave the Southampton taxpayer with a £186m write down on a £300m bill, as per the auditors report.

The Southampton runway extension is being funded by business, which is how it should be.

[TCAS FAN]

Different as chalk and cheese. The runway extension is not being funded by the council taxpayer nor will it leave the Southampton taxpayer with a £186m write down on a £300m bill, as per the auditors report.

The Southampton runway extension is being funded by business, which is how it should be.

A Luton council regime change chance missed at the recent local authority elections? Maybe time for the taxpayer burden to be off-loaded by an airport sell off?

Thank you for a positive comment in the last paragraph of your post.

[N123JB]

Was once a regular flyer between Scotland and Southampton, using the airport as a gateway to the rest of the South Coast. Pre-COVID I’d always be happy with Flybe at <£100 return, however cheapest I’ve seen on Loganair is closer to £200.

Need to get back down there in a few weeks, it’s either Loganair at £250 or Ryanair to Bournemouth at £40 return, and I’m afraid I think the choice is pretty obvious. Sorry lads, SOU is one of my favourite little airports but Loganair and their absurd pricing really doesn’t cut it.

[inOban]

If FR are only charging £40Return, then they're losing money, unless they succeed in screwing you for lots of extras.

[willy wombat]

You may be unhappy that Loganair’s fares tend to be higher than Flybe’s were but Loganair is still here. Nuff said.

[SWBKCB]

Jonathan Hinkles, chief executive of Glasgow-based Loganair (https://www.scotsman.com/topic/loganair), admitted that was a “very difficult message”, but said travellers had to make “conscious decisions” about who they flew with if they wanted to use the same route in the winter. It follows no-frills airlines such as Easyjet and Ryanair launching UK summer routes from Scotland over the last few years in competition with Loganair which operated on only a few days a week, with some subsequently being scrapped....

...Speaking to The Scotsman in the first part of Future Flight, our new series on Scottish aviation, he said: "People say 'I can get a cheaper flight on a Thursday in June', and yes you can, but when you want to fly on a Tuesday in February, you won't see them for dust, but we are going to be there. If you want the year-round service of three flights every weekday come rain or shine, we will provide that consistency. If that’s what you want as a customer, please support us.

The Scotsman - Future Flight: ‘Very difficult message’ that year-round Scottish flights cost more than summer-only budget airlines’ fares – Loganair chief executive Jonathan Hinkles (https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/future-flight-very-difficult-message-that-year-round-scottish-flights-cost-more-than-summer-only-budget-airlines-fares-loganair-chief-executive-jonathan-hinkles-4060075)

[rog747]

For those of you who maybe just a tad interested Jet2 are to base 4 aircraft at Liverpool LPL from next summer 2024.

British Airways BACF are at the moment contracted to TUI Holidays for 2 x weekly charters from SOU to Palma May-Sept on TUES and SATS,

It seems that the BACF program is returning to SOU as the FAO and AGP flights have been now been loaded on the BA.com booking system starting at the end of April 2024.

[rog747]

The Scotsman - Future Flight: ‘Very difficult message’ that year-round Scottish flights cost more than summer-only budget airlines’ fares – Loganair chief executive Jonathan Hinkles (https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/future-flight-very-difficult-message-that-year-round-scottish-flights-cost-more-than-summer-only-budget-airlines-fares-loganair-chief-executive-jonathan-hinkles-4060075)

Quoting >>>
Jonathan Hinkles, chief executive of Glasgow-based Loganair, admitted that was a “very difficult message”, but said travellers had to make “conscious decisions” about who they flew with if they wanted to use the same route in the winter. It follows no-frills airlines such as Easyjet and Ryanair launching UK summer routes from Scotland over the last few years in competition with Loganair which operated on only a few days a week, with some subsequently being scrapped....
...Speaking to The Scotsman in the first part of Future Flight, our new series on Scottish aviation, he said: "People say 'I can get a cheaper flight on a Thursday in June', and yes you can, but when you want to fly on a Tuesday in February, you won't see them for dust, but we are going to be there. If you want the year-round service of three flights every weekday come rain or shine, we will provide that consistency. If that’s what you want as a customer, please support us.

Yes, a very fair comment and sound observations,

However it is eye watering that a recent SOU-GLA-SOU flight I checked on to fly up a couple of weeks ago was well over £300 return.
It did fly though, at the very times I needed;
The Ryanair alternative, albeit flying to EDI from BOH was £29 each way, plus whatever extras I wanted.
BA full service fare from LHR was around £200 return.

[SouthernAlliance]

For those of you who maybe just a tad interested Jet2 are to base 4 aircraft at Liverpool LPL from next summer 2024.

British Airways BACF are at the moment contracted to TUI Holidays for 2 x weekly charters from SOU to Palma May-Sept on TUES and SATS,

and it seems that the BACF program is returning to SOU as the FAO and AGP flights have been now been loaded on the BA.com booking system starting at the end of April.

Great news that BA seem to be returning next summer. Will be interesting to see if they have any competition on the Med/French routes

[rog747]

Great news that BA seem to be returning next summer. Will be interesting to see if they have any competition on the Med/French routes

Fingers crossed, it does of course, mean that BA are hopefully upbeat of decent figures for this summer first.

[Sharklet_321]

Was once a regular flyer between Scotland and Southampton, using the airport as a gateway to the rest of the South Coast. Pre-COVID I’d always be happy with Flybe at <£100 return, however cheapest I’ve seen on Loganair is closer to £200.

Need to get back down there in a few weeks, it’s either Loganair at £250 or Ryanair to Bournemouth at £40 return, and I’m afraid I think the choice is pretty obvious. Sorry lads, SOU is one of my favourite little airports but Loganair and their absurd pricing really doesn’t cut it.

if you compare apples to apples (check in bag) then it comes out as Ryanair at £96 return and Loganair £131. However Loganair is four times per day and takes you straight to the Southampton train line at the terminal. Ryanair is 4 times per week and you will either need a taxi (£25) to the train station in Bournemouth or a friend who will likely be paying £5/7.50 drop off fee. The train fare from Bournemouth station to Southampton is £13 one way. Not to mention the time it takes to get to Southampton.

[SouthernAlliance]

ALC announced as next EZY base, that’s core sun routes of PMI/AGP/FAO/ALC (away based) sorted for SOU in S24!

[Sotonsean]

ALC announced as next EZY base, that’s core sun routes of PMI/AGP/FAO/ALC (away based) sorted for SOU in S24!

Are you jumping ahead of yourself AGAIN 😉

As much as I would love to see EasyJet fly those 'sun routes' to SOU I'm not being too optimistic about it actually happening until the day it is officially confirmed.

Until that time I take everything I read on pprune about EasyJet and SOU with a pinch of salt.

If EasyJet did indeed expand from SOU I would personally love to see service from BCN. I regularly fly to BCN, more often than not from LHR with BA. It pains me to think that I can't currently fly from my local airport to BCN especially as I pass it on the M27 on my way to join the M3.

It's a shame that the previous Vueling flight from BCN to SOU didn't last long. I used it once and it would be great to see Vueling make another go at BCN to SOU. Even though Vueling have a base at LGW I can see a return of BCN to SOU working for the airline, especially with a BA code share.

But throughout my life I've never taken anything seriously until something has been officially confirmed. From my early year's as a young plane spotter I remember the endless rumours. It's what actually put me off plane spotting by my mid teens.

[Albert Hall]

As much as I would love to see EasyJet fly those 'sun routes' to SOU I'm not being too optimistic about it actually happening until the day it is officially confirmed.

Suggest we come back tomorrow.

[RW20]

Suggest we come back tomorrow.
Interesting , Easy has to be SOU only real option,the airport operating hours restrict any based operation from Jet2 etc.
To come back to profit and justify the runway extension the airport needs a Summer LCC operating into it.

[Sotonsean]

Suggest we come back tomorrow.

I usually tend to 'check in' to pprune on a daily basis so we're see you tomorrow 😉

[MATaxi]

News on Twitter tonight via Sean M that Easy start Belfast and Glasgow from Southampton in October. Three flights a week and two flights a week respectively. It’s modest but it’s a start nonetheless.

[stewyb]

News on Twitter tonight via Sean M that Easy start Belfast and Glasgow from Southampton in October. Three flights a week and two flights a week respectively. It’s modest but it’s a start nonetheless.

There will be more for S24

[ib26uk]

There will be more for S24

Hopefully a MAN-SOU on an A319 - Its one route I would use, it would be very popular with the cruising market... pipe dream I know...

[MARKEYD]

Good news for sure to see EasyJet testing the waters this winter

One bit of concern is not to dilute the already established routes operated by Emerald and Loganair and chase them off in lieu of just 1 flight a day using a 180 seater jet

[BOHEuropean]

Shame to see them choosing routes already established by Loganair and Aer Lingus. Let's hope if there's further route developments it doesn't come at the cost of our other operators at Southampton.

EZY13 BFS-SOU 10:25-11:40 MON (Starts 30 October, ends 25 March)
EZY14 SOU-BFS 12:30-13:50 MON (Starts 30 October, ends 25 March)

EZY13 BFS-SOU 11:40-12:55 FRI (Starts 03 November, ends 29 March)
EZY14 SOU-BFS 13:30-14:50 FRI (Starts 03 November, ends 29 March)

EZY409 GLA-SOU 16:00-17:20 THU (Starts 02 November, ends 28 March)
EZY410 SOU-GLA 17:50-19:15 THU (Starts 02 November, ends 28 March)

EZY409 GLA-SOU 08:05-09:25 SAT (Starts 04 November, ends 30 March)
EZY410 SOU-GLA 09:55-11:20 SAT (Starts 04 November, ends 30 March)

EZY13 BFS-SOU 09:50-11:05 SUN (Starts 29 October, ends 24 March)
EZY14 SOU-BFS 11:55-13:15 SUN (Starts 29 October, ends 24 March)

[davidjohnson6]

I'm wondering when Easyjet will start a route to Edinburgh...

[SWBKCB]

Good news for sure to see EasyJet testing the waters this winter

One bit of concern is not to dilute the already established routes operated by Emerald and Loganair and chase them off in lieu of just 1 flight a day using a 180 seater jet

A concern already expressed by Loganair - see post #1472

[willy wombat]

I never thought I’d say this but I almost feel like there should be some return to light touch route regulation by the CAA.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Shame to see them choosing routes already established by Loganair and Aer Lingus. Let's hope if there's further route developments it doesn't come at the cost of our other operators at Southampton.

EZY13 BFS-SOU 10:25-11:40 MON (Starts 30 October, ends 25 March)
EZY14 SOU-BFS 12:30-13:50 MON (Starts 30 October, ends 25 March)

EZY13 BFS-SOU 11:40-12:55 FRI (Starts 03 November, ends 29 March)
EZY14 SOU-BFS 13:30-14:50 FRI (Starts 03 November, ends 29 March)

EZY409 GLA-SOU 16:00-17:20 THU (Starts 02 November, ends 28 March)
EZY410 SOU-GLA 17:50-19:15 THU (Starts 02 November, ends 28 March)

EZY409 GLA-SOU 08:05-09:25 SAT (Starts 04 November, ends 30 March)
EZY410 SOU-GLA 09:55-11:20 SAT (Starts 04 November, ends 30 March)

EZY13 BFS-SOU 09:50-11:05 SUN (Starts 29 October, ends 24 March)
EZY14 SOU-BFS 11:55-13:15 SUN (Starts 29 October, ends 24 March)

This was the battle on IOM, multiple daily connections vs. at best once daily volume on the same route. You guys may end up with very little net new routes and losing out on existing flexibility on timings, all to save some money. Swings and roundabouts as this schedule could kill the margins of both competitors stone dead and the assets will be flown elsewhere potentially leaving days with no service at all.

[willy wombat]

I very much hope that SOU haven’t given EZY a discount/marketing assistance for these duplicate routes. Anyone know?

[tallaonejuliet]

The Easyjet announcement is the beginning of the end for the high frequency services that have been re-established since COVID and demise of Flybe.
Expect reductions in services by Emerald and Loganair due to this, they can't compete in terms of cost. Regional connectivity will become a thing of the past.

[davidjohnson6]

I get that frequency will decline, but so will cost.
30 years ago, airfares were high, and people often couldn't afford to fly. The idea of flying London-Glasgow for leisure was generally unthinkable for most people. Low fares and LCCs significantly stimulated the market, and demand rose by a large degree.
Loganair's niche at SOU was because of the temporary effects and affer-effects of Covid. That niche is disappearing. An E145 should be used on genuinely niche routes - not a major city in southern UK to the central belt. Even a Flybe Dash 8 had almost double the seats.
SOU is one of the few non-trivial-sized UK airports to have largely missed out in the past on seeing the commercial benefits of substantial low-cost 100+ seat jet service and the associated passenger demand increase - it needs that boost.

We're not talking here about routes to small rural islands like the Orkneys.

[Albert Hall]

Loganair response (https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jonathan-hinkles-31116a26_flyloganair-tartanarmy-activity-7067423424955998209-owN2?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop)

Clearly not happy, but having a spirited go.

Who flies between Glasgow and Southampton on a Saturday morning in winter? Certainly not enough to fill an Airbus, surely?

[Asturias56]

get the price right (ie vv low) and people will fly

You can't have it both ways - a LCO and a couple of niche, relatively high cost, regional airlines on the same route

[GAZMO]

Loganair response (https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jonathan-hinkles-31116a26_flyloganair-tartanarmy-activity-7067423424955998209-owN2?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop)

Clearly not happy, but having a spirited go.

Who flies between Glasgow and Southampton on a Saturday morning in winter? Certainly not enough to fill an Airbus, surely?

Still think there may be a few more GLA SOU flights, Thurs / Sat not really working for a lot of people

[Albert Hall]

The Easyjet announcement is the beginning of the end for the high frequency services that have been re-established since COVID and demise of Flybe.
Expect reductions in services by Emerald and Loganair due to this, they can't compete in terms of cost. Regional connectivity will become a thing of the past.

You'd think so, but given easyJet's ability to screw up almost everything they touch at the moment, it might not be so. You'd have said the same for MAN/ABZ. but that turned out in Loganair's favour.

There seem to be some very poor management and network decisions being made in easyJet and this is another one, IMHO.

[VickersVicount]

LM SOU quite lucrative by all accounts so no wonder theyre kicking off! Very weird routing /frequency for EZY though… would have been better doing IOM!

[RW20]

LM SOU quite lucrative by all accounts so no wonder theyre kicking off! Very weird routing /frequency for EZY though… would have been better doing IOM!
This announcement is not the best of news for SOU,very strange limited times,are SOU pandering to Easy,hoping for Some Summer routes?
Lets hope SOU doesnt go down the Southend route with Easy, we need Loganair and air lingus.