Southampton-3

[Dropoffcharge]

I noticed that as well, how many times will the budget get stretched? I'd say the more times they raise the limit, the more people might loose interest in backing them.

[BA318]

Its quite common for these crowdfunding schemes to extend the donation target once they hit one. In anything like this you can never have too much money so they usually extend it with a small explanation of what the next stage would support.

[RW20]

It's clear that there will be a substantial delay in the runway extension,and with many covid mutations to come,the question is will this ever happen?
The airport can and will survive ,but the hope of progressing to the next level must be very dubious at least!.

[Buster the Bear]

Airport fees increasing, air traffic navigation charges likely to rise and the price of oil heading slowly to $150 a barrel, does not bode well for fares. This may well impact discretionary travel.

[SKOJB]

Drove by airport recently and noticed Eastern’s E190 nose in on stand 10. Didn’t think these stands capable of accommodating this size of aircraft, bodes well for BA ops!

[dixi188]

Some years ago a FlyBe E195 was parked nose out on stand 10 or 11 and the APU exhaust set fire to the stand number sign. The signs were lowered after that.

[Rivet Joint]

BA at SOU are taking their time to adapt to the changing rules. Also not sure why the Spain routes are not being run this year. They would probably be the most popular given BEs long-standing offering. Flights to Spain being done from most the other airports and have been for a while, so cannot point to the rules for that country.

[stewyb]

BACF commence PMI and IBZ on 17th July with all remaining routes starting on 07th Aug (according to BA website)

[Rivet Joint]

Good spot! Guess that’s not long to wait.

[RW20]

BA318

looks like they have reached a level of funding to fully engage a company to sustain a judicial review to stop the expansion
They certainly mean business,and the expansion doesn't look like starting for some time,if not ever?

[adfly]

More chopping and changing and cutting as per, but here is an up to date summary. Stars by the stuff that looks like it could just be a placeholder. Govt are proudly placing more nails in the industry coffin by not allowing double vaxxed to return from France without isolation (what is the :mad:ing point of everyone getting vaccinated if this sort of rubbish rubbish is still a thing?)

Southampton to Newquay has also appeared in Eastern's booking engine but is not presently bookable. Probably a fair market for that in the summer - much better than the awful 4-5 hour drive!

As of today Southampton has the following operating:

Aurigny

Alderney - 14 weekly D28
Guernsey - 14 weekly AT7 - Blue Islands aircraft used for some flights

BA Cityflyer

Edinburgh - 1 weekly E90
Ibiza - 2 weekly E90
Palma - 2 weekly E90

Blue Islands

Jersey - 14 weekly AT7

Eastern Airways

Belfast City - 6 weekly AT7
Gibraltar - 2 weekly E90/E70/ER3...
Leeds Bradford - 4 weekly J41
Manchester - 4 weekly AT7

KLM Cityhopper

Amsterdam - 4 weekly E75

Loganair

Edinburgh - 14 weekly ER4
Glasgow - 14 weekly ER4
Newcastle - 14 weekly ER3/ER4


19/07

Eastern start Dublin - 4 weekly AT7

26/07

Loganair increase Edinburgh to 19 weekly
Loganair increase Glasgow to 20 weekly

01/08

* Blue Islands resume Guernsey - 14 weekly *

02/08

Blue Islands increase Jersey to 20 weekly

07/08

BA Cityflyer resume Faro
BA Cityflyer start Alicante, * Bergerac *, Berlin, Florence,* Limoges *, Malaga, Mykonos,* Nice *

31/08

Blue Islands start Dublin - 7 weekly AT7
Blue Islands start Manchester - 19 weekly AT7

01/09

Loganair increase Edinburgh to 24 weekly
Loganair increase Glasgow to 25 weekly

03/09

Blue Islands increase Jersey to 23 weekly

06/09

Eastern increase Belfast City to 11 weekly
Eastern increase Leeds Bradford to 10 weekly
Eastern increase Manchester to 11 weekly
Eastern start Nantes - 3 weekly AT7
Eastern start Rennes - 3 weekly AT7
Loganair increase Newcastle to 18 weekly

[Jamesair1]

Thank you for the update of the schedule of operation at SOU.....your efforts are appreciated

[Rivet Joint]

Thanks for keeping up these posts, very useful. It looks like KLM are often using the E90 on the route which hopefully is a good sign.

[stewyb]

Florence has been put back until S22 and EGC has Tue departure removed

[Wycombe]

Southampton to Newquay has also appeared in Eastern's booking engine

Noticed recently (I think sometime last week) that a SOU-LBA flight was operated by a J41 that came from NQY.

[Buster the Bear]

Eastern booking engine shows that there are flights on Saturday and Sunday to Newquay, but not bookable yet.

[BAladdy]

The launch of BACF flights to Limoges and Nice has been pushed back to S22

[stewyb]

No surprise given the ridiculous quarantine rules applied to France. Assume Bergerac remains as many passengers using this service will be 2nd home owners in the Dordogne and 10 day quarantine will not be an issue!

[stewyb]

EZY GVA has added an additional early evening departure on Sat (excluding Jan where Sat has been removed altogether) now up to x 4 weekly!

[richardwpprn]

G-LCYU is inflight to SOU for a big day tomorrow for BACF.

[SKOJB]

Fantastic day for the airport tomorrow with BA back in town and hope they will add some winter sun routes very soon

[RW20]

can't see how SOU could have any winter sun routes as the E190 hasn't the range to meet the canaries,and where else could it reach?

[dixi188]

When Flybe bought the E195 I seem to recall it being able to do Pafos from SOU on a 25C day. They had a penalty clause that meant they received payments until the engines were upgraded.

[TCAS FAN]

In all the years that I was at SOU never remember Pafos (Cyprus), that would be almost four hours flying, similar to the Canaries. The longest sector I believe was Faro, which on occassions would have needed a tech stop en-route.

[SKOJB]

RW20

was meaning ALC/AGP just as BE used to

[Downwind_Left]

Very unlikely I’d have thought. The SOU programme is a relocation of the STN and MAN programmes operated since 2016 and 2017 respectively. They only every operated winter ski and associated aircraft positioning flights in recent years. The STN-LIN/GVA etc in winter 2016/17 were fairly short lived leaving CMF and SZG as the only regulars. And SZG was only scheduled from MAN with peak time charters from STN.

[dixi188]

IIRC back in 2006 when Flybe got their first E195 there was some marketing blurb showing circles of the range possible from several airports and Pafos was the limit from SOU and Cairo the limit from BHX.
The longest route I remember from SOU was Skiathos.

[Buster the Bear]

At least 7 different Cityflyer Embraer visited Southampton on Saturday. I guess all were via 'W' pattern from other airports?

[SKOJB]

x 8 based overnight on Saturday with schedules that end up back at LCY for Sun pm

[zantopst]

plus eastern 135, 170 and 190 and a corporate A319cj it was a good Saturday !
11 E-jets and the airbus all nightstopping.

[The Nutts Mutts]

One stays parked up at SOU all week (but I'm sure this will change as air travel continues to pick up), one arrives from EDI on Friday evening, one arrives from BER on Friday evening, and the rest are W patterns, overnighting at SOU on Saturday.

[MARKEYD]

Load factors on the BA flights to PMI on Saturday were around 80 % which was excellent, it was a shared flight with TUI ( originally Volotea flight ) so no doubt helped boost the load
ALC was about 50 %
AGP , FAO , IBZ about 40 %
JMK and EGC about 30 %

EDI was almost full which goes to show how popular this summer has been with the UK

[dixi188]

Re. post 505, which stands are being used for the night stopping E190s?

[The Nutts Mutts]

This weekend there were BA E190s parked on 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 11 and 12, with the Eastern E170 on 1, E135 on 6 and E190 on 10. The A319CJ was nose out on 13/14.

[TCAS FAN]

With RYR and EZY's withdrawal from SEN, bring on the runway extension to see SOU becoming the fastest growing airport in UK?

[RW20]

TCAS CAN ,the sentiments of all SOU supporters who.like me have seen the airport progress from a grass strip through to today's operation.
However the opposition groups have raised enough cash to oppose the EBC decision,and the airport management acknowledge that there will be a substantial delay before any work might get away.Do you believe that the airport can come through this and survive,if the legal agruments go on for a long time?
BACF give an extended lifeline to the airport,let's hope they stay.

[TCAS FAN]

Ah the grass strip days, still remember watching a Cambrian DC3 going past my classroon window while making an approach to runway 09.

IMHO the judicial review process is not indefinite in duration, whilst a temporary frustration I personally think the airport while come through with a sucessful result. If you look at the AXO website and some of the comments made by people who have thrown their pocket money at it, one thing stands out to me NIMBYS!

[willy wombat]

Out of interest, given this peak of activity at weekends, how are ground services being staffed and how are they coping?

[RW20]

TCAS FAN

Yes I must agree,it's a uncertain covid world,but surely SOU is in a better position then other Regional airports,Bournemouth will survive due to its runway length,and diversity.On the SOU grass days,I remember B170 freighters with there short bases and finals,and the Alderney herons.

[SKOJB]

Under staffed and under paid from what I hear!

[The96er]

So back to normal then :-)

[The Nutts Mutts]

According to the Flybe thread, Flybe 2.0 are recruiting for bases in MAN, BHX, BHD and SOU. Assuming their plans come to fruition, it'll be interesting to see what routes they intend to serve and who they decide to compete against.

[Buster the Bear]

This article is rather interesting and very applicable to Southampton which has a large number of domestic flights.

https://www.businesstravelnewseurope.com/Management/Survey-Virtual-to-replace-domestic-business-travel-for-many-UK-companies?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=eltrbtneurope

[adfly]

Blue Islands have delayed their SOU base yet again. Was due to start 31/08, now 28/03/22. MAN 12 weekly and DUB 7 weekly. It does feel like they've left it very late before delaying the launch the last few times. There have been a fair amount of annoyed customers on social media (many who've booked the flights through Loganair to connect to Aberdeen/Inverness).

I suppose it is good news for Eastern, gives them more time to develop their own MAN and DUB routes and hopefully get them up to some more useful frequencies for business travel, or even to be a more useful alternative to flying from London for the DUB route.

[kcockayne]

What's the betting that these routes never happen ? Not a natural fit for Blue Island. The base, too.

[adfly]

I am inclined to agree with you.

However I think the carrot on the stick for causing them to persist is maybe that with the Loganair partnership they can offer a more appealing product to customers - offering connections, and when travel further afield improves interlining onto long haul through MAN/DUB/EDI/GLA which is never something Eastern have done (what happened to their proposed codeshare with Aurigny...) Between the two carriers they would then serve most of Southampton's busiest routes, and be able to book them all via a single website (closer to what Flybe offered).

It is certainly a gamble though.

[kcockayne]

You have made some good points on connections & interlining, &, as you say, that may persuade them to continue with their plans. My feeling is that, as far as Manchester is concerned, they are competing with Easy & Jet 2, who both offer direct jet services from Jersey. I don't think that they can seriously compete on this route operating via Southampton. Dublin is a bit different in that Aer Lingus haven't returned to the route from Jersey, yet. So, no competition there. But, are there enough pax for them to open a base at Southampton: & do they have the aircraft available to operate the routes, especially in competition with Eastern ?

[adfly]

Agree with the comments regarding Jersey. The thought of connection options on my previous post was somewhat Southampton centric - i.e SOU-MAN-ABZ which would probably have a small market with no direct ABZ service available any more (Eastern and Loganair via Teesside/Newcastle were direct, if not non stop). That would give it a bit of a boost alongside having to fight for the local SOU-MAN market and compete with Eastern.

I think there are enough passengers for one carrier to serve those routes. For two carriers each with a fairly niche presence though I am less sure, likewise of Blue Islands having or making sufficient aircraft available.

[rog747]

Looked at booking BA's SOU-JMK-SOU flights in SEPT - fares are very cheap £77 o/w including 23kgs bag, (Club Europe was £182) and I noted some flights routing via Ibiza.

[MARKEYD]

Loads on the Mykonos flight have been pretty low around the 33 / 40 % factor

[Downwind_Left]

I think that may be a website error, now corrected. None planned that I could find.

[gkmeech]

MARKEYD

lots of reasons ... first year, very little marketing, Covid, and 3 hour flight on an E190 from a 5500ft runway restricts payload..

[pamann]

Also 6 or 13 night duration. Not an issue for me I’d just go for 13. But maybe some folk want a full week not 6 nights.

When the flights routed ex Stansted, perhaps it wasn’t such an issue to do 7 night ex STN back to LCY if you are based in London or the local area. Doing SOU-JMK-LCY just to get a 7 night duration probably isn’t such a viable option to most.

[SKOJB]

Looking at BA's current program of flights from the airport utilising x 8 E90's at weekends, this would become almost impossible to mirror if as reported Cityflyer order the E190-E2/A220-100 as a replacement. Their wingspans are 5-6m wider than current E90 and therefore would have a detrimental effect on airfield capacity. SOU stands are configured for current E90 sizing so any replacement aircraft could cause big issues for future flying schedules and guess this is the conundrum the airport faces with lack of apron space!

[RW20]

Is it not true that that stands 1-5 would be adjusted for A320 use if the extension goes ahead ?,also couldn't stands 7-12 be adjusted for 190-e2?
Can TCAS FAN give a informitive answer to this?

[dixi188]

Stands 1-5 can be widened to become 1-4, so you lose a stand. Same sort of thing for the higher no. stands.
There was talk a few years ago of a new stand nose to the road behind stand 1, but I don't think that would suit A320s or B737s.

[Buster the Bear]

Let me get this right, a runway extension to being larger aircraft types into Southampton, but that will mean less stands to park them, due to their size? What are the other options to ensure Southampton does not rapidly reach 'full' should the larger aircraft arrive post runway lengthening?

[stewyb]

Apron space is always going to be a limiting factor at SOU. There just isn’t the room to accommodate a BA schedule of 8 Embraer’s plus the potential for say 3 A320 post extension. The airport also has to hope that BA choose the E90 E2 as the A220 is even longer in length and won’t fit on stands 6-12. A longer runway will certainly be beneficial but will SOU be able to cope with the variety of airlines knowing their planes are only getting bigger in size and dimension?

[willy wombat]

I rather think that struggling to park a large number of airliners actively engaged in revenue flying is the sort of problem that.the majority of airports would currently like to have. I can’t imagine that SOU management are losing sleep worrying that their airport may be too busy.

[stewyb]

Not suggesting the airport is loosing sleep, moreover the need to reconfigure stand capability which will obviously be carried out during extension works and hopefully assist in attracting an additional airline or two. However, it doesn't alleviate the lack of options available with apron space being limited and thoughtful planning will be required

[stewyb]

Loganair take over MME from Eastern and connect to ABZ from 27th March 2022, x 6 weekly

[Rivet Joint]

Guys, as always the answer is in the masterplan. Link below. See pages 36-37. An indication of possible stand layout. Of course the previous master plan had larger stands planned for the big parcel the airport own to the north east, but it seems they now want to waste that land on yet more big haulage sheds with miniscule low skilled employment.

I did wonder at the time why the airport did not include the stands and the northern taxiway link in with the runway extension planning but I assume the airport want to do it in stages. I guess adding planning for big stands to the runway extension would not have been a good idea as the ecomentalists would have used it as proof that the extension is just about bigger aircraft. Of course they used that argument anyway but if true I guess there is some logic in the airport avoiding linking the two.

https://www.southamptonairport.com/media/fwnh31wg/sou-a-vision-for-sustainable-growth.pdf

[Rivet Joint]

What happened to Stewyb? Lol

BA adding Salzburg from SOU from December to April. Good that they are continuing to add routes.

[Buster the Bear]

More detail here.

https://mediacentre.britishairways.com/news/09092021/british-airways-extends-its-uk-destinations-this-winter

[Buster the Bear]

I'm not sure it has been reported here, but Cityflyer will be opting to Belfast City this winter? That would account for the Saltsburg originating from Southampton.

[BAeuro]

No, BACF won’t be flying from Southampton to Belfast. The aircraft will operate the following pattern:

Friday:

EDI-SOU

Saturday:

SOU-CMF
CMF-SOU
SOU-SZG
SZG-SOU

Sunday:

SOU-CMF
CMF-SOU
SOU-EDI

[The Nutts Mutts]

Are you saying that BACF will be operating SOU-BHD this winter? I haven't heard anything to suggest that and haven't seen it mentioned on here or anywhere else.
My understanding is that an E190 will be operating EDI-SOU, SOU-CMF-SOU-SZG-SOU, SOU-CMF-SOU-EDI as a weekend's flying from Friday evening to Sunday afternoon.

[MARKEYD]

Buster the Bear

No it hasn’t been reported because it’s not happening , think you have been misinformed

[Rivet Joint]

Anyone know why nearly all departures are from 02 now? Been like that for a few months now when traditionally the majority would be from 20.

[stewyb]

Wind direction, longer TORA, keeping neighbours happy?

[Rivet Joint]

The latter maybe but then they are meant to go against the wind direction. I can’t imagine the wind direction has permanently changed so that 02 sees the bulk of the departures now. I remember reading a while ago that 20 saw about 80% of the annual departures but I would say it has completely flipped the last few months. All very strange.

[SWBKCB]

You'd be surprised.Sounds like the most likely reason to me.

[RW20]

No pilot is going to take off with any significant tailwind!
also the TODA for 02 is much greater the 20,so with the wind less then 5 knots or northly 02 gives a few plusses for Pilot's

[TCAS FAN]

Nothing more than the prevailing wind direction favouring use of RWY 02.

[RW20]

TCAS FAN
I believe that LPV approaches to all UK airports are now stopped directly because of brexit,given Southampton has RNAV to 02,surely this limits the minima on approaches,and it seems VOR approaches are back on the agenda,a retrograde step I fear

[dixi188]

The prevailing wind is still Southwesterly, however the wind for the last few weeks has been mostly East or Northeast hence 02 in use.
As soon as the autumn weather arrives they will be back on 20. Looking at the forecast I think it will be 20 by the weekend.
Bournemouth has been on 08 most of the last month with 26 is in use sometimes, including today.

[TCAS FAN]

RW20

The lower approach minima has accordingly gone due to not being able to use LPV, but LNAV/VNAV or LNAV minima should still be applicable albeit it is around 100 FT higher.

The VOR/DME approach is now only a short term option due to the planned withdrawal by NATS of the VOR/DME.

[adfly]

Few changes from Eastern.

- Gibraltar to end on 11/10, probably not all that surprising as loads have not been brilliant and most more popular med destinations are open again
- Belfast has increased to 10 weekly, with the second morning flight operating via Cardiff on Mon, Thurs, Fri and Sun
- Southampton to Cardiff is bookable on the above days as well
- Dublin has increased from 4 to 6 weekly (ex. Sat) and is now an afternoon flight
- Manchester has increased from 4 to 6 weekly (ex. Sat) and is now an evening flight
- The above now means that both ATR72's are needed at some times of the day - progress is slow but at least there is some!
- Leeds Bradford has increased from 4 to 9 weekly (ex Sat, 2x Tues-Thurs)

Hopefully they can operate this more useful schedule with less short term cancellations than have been seen over the past few months, as I have seen some very frustrated reviews on social media and indeed here from where people have been caught out.

[SKOJB]

Maybe you can confirm but looks like NQY operating on several days during Dec/Jan!?

[northsands]

Eastern has SOU - NQY scheduled on nine days between 17 Dec and 3 Jan, arising from combination of the usually separate LBA to SOU and LBA to NQY routes, across the Xmas/New Year holiday period.

[Alteagod]

Did some at T3 used to work for DANAIR Metropolitan of the 1980s. A bit bonkers the schedule but good to see the BHD twice a day of sorts.

[RW20]

All this is further encouraging news,but with things opening up for 2022,I feel the airport could be left in the side lines with the restricted runway length.
With fuel costs spiralling the need for larger economic aircraft becomes a necessity,With no further news on the runway extension and forthcoming legal challenge,things look challenging for the airport management.

[055166k]

This morning, Sat 9th Oct, is the reality.... a little fog in the area. Up above the aeroplanes fly in frustrating circles.... unable to land. Bournemouth traffic is unaffected because of the superior landing aids/approach lighting systems/runway length. Do you really think an extra couple of metres of runway will make a difference? Time for a reality check. Remember Air Berlin!

[wanna]

Granted Bournemouth (on 26) has lower minima compared to SOU, but the operators also need to be approved for CAT 2 / CAT 3 approaches. Does Eastern, Aurigny, Blue Islands, Loganair, City Flyer etc have CAT2 approval? None maybe except City Flyer would have CAT3 (and then i very much doubt they do) so the comparison between SOU and BOH is irrelevant in this instance. The extension will only benefit, maybe it will attract new operators but the reality is the CURRENT operators will benefit the most, a constant trend on this thread is that the runway extension will bring in all these new operators, forgetting the current users who lets be realistic have certainly helped (as much as they could) the airport throughout the toughest time aviation has seen.

Bournemouth and Southampton are two very different airports that can / do operate together well. Bournemouth has a lot of ancillary business, with Cargo, Draken, GAMA, JETS etc and a primarily leisure focused scheduled airline network. Southampton is a primarily business / commuting airport, with only a very small 'other' type operations such as Jetworks. The airport also has the benefit of the lifeline routes to the channel islands and is the primary link for the channel islands air ambulances. Southampton is Southampton and Bournemouth is Bournemouth, neither will ever be the other and why should they?

[davidjohnson6]

In the blue corner.... in the red corner...

[L1011effoh]

wanna

Your assertion is incorrect. At least one of the operators you have listed is equipped, trained and approved for CAT II.

[V_2]

Cityflyer’s entire fleet was Cat 3 autoland capable. With the “new” aircraft from China being Cat 2 man land only and the 170s leaving, the Cat 3 ratio approaches 50%. (Although in my experience not sure I’ve ever done a Cat 3 approach where I wouldn’t have got in with Cat 2 minima.)

[Saabdriver1]

The Loganair Embraers are Cat II and the ATRs are expected to be any day now.

[SKOJB]

Am I right in thinking SOU will never be any more than CAT1 because of runway width?

[Buster the Bear]

The future of course is not ILS, RNAV is already beneficial to Southampton.

[055166k]

The EMB 145 might need up to an additional 15% of runway in low visibility as it might need to use reduced flap settings, and bear in mind that RW20 has a displaced threshold.... which the proposed runway extension will not affect. Previous comments reflect a good common sense attitude.

[SKOJB]

Which your original post clearly did not. SOU may not have the perfect instrumentation set up but i'm sure it will cope just fine with any future opportunities that present themselves!

[wanna]

L1011effoh

It was actually a question, im not to familiar with the ins and outs of the airlines listed. I would imagine City Flyer is CAT2 but the others... id be surprised.

[055166k]

I'm actually pro Southampton big time. N88ZL Boeing 707 got in and out OK regularly, but the weather is not always kind, such as the Fokker 100 that slid off the end of RW20. Recent movements suggest the E135/145/170/190 types are ideal. Occasional A319/320 seem to be no problem but I would question the reliance on that size of aircraft for regular and frequent schedules. The Dash 8 still ticks all my boxes.

[zantopst]

hmm think you will find N88ZL used hurn. There has never been a 707 in Southampton. The replacement BBJ VP-BZL visited once as far as I can remember.

[055166k]

SORRY.... AGED MEMORY FAILURE.. apologies.

[Expressflight]

SKOJB

That is correct.

[RW20]

SOU will only be CAT 1,and with a very high 20 RVR of 800 mtrs or more for landing ,it must be the worst regional airport for poor visability operations.
additional to this 02 minimal has been raised again to about 500 feet due to the RNAV withdrawn of LPV approaches.
Not the best of aids for any airline to consider with the runway extension in the future pipeline.

[TCAS FAN]

SKOJB

IMHO no, contrary to that posted at 597 the reason for the current, and possible future, operation at CAT 1 is due to the lack of a full (ie 900 metre) approach lighting system on RWY 20 together with obstacles in the final approach area. The presence of the latter will preclude significant lowering of the Descision Height (ie the point at which a missed approach must be initiated) therefore it is not financially viable to extend the approach light system to faciltate adoption of something better than CAT 1.RVR minima.

The issue of runway width is only applicable for Code 1 & 2 precision runways which requires a minimum width of 30 metres (ref ICAO Annex 14) which SOU already has if it were applicable,

Has anyone any update of Aurigny having EVS (Enhanced Vision Systems) fitted to their ATRs? This was apparently being done to counter a similar approach minima problem at Guernsey and could accordingly be applied at SOU to enable a less than CAT 1 minima to be used.

[Asturias56]

How often is the airport closed due to poor visibility? How many flights a year are affected??

if it's a low number there is no point in investing when there are a lot of alternatives relatively close by

[TCAS FAN]

Technically its never closed due to poor visibilility. As runway centreline lighting is available take-offs can take place down to RVR 200m. Its just that approaches to land cannot be legally flown when the RVR falls below approxinately 800 metres. This value is calculated using a combination of the lowest decision height for a particular aircraft and the length of the approach lighting system.

[Expressflight]

TCAS FAN

I think the physical characteristics of SOU would preclude CAT II with regard to the size of the protected area surrounding a CAT II runway being greater than that for CAT I.

[TCAS FAN]

Thanks I accept that may well be the case. Consequently any focus should be to get the RVR minima down to 550 metres or hope that everyone fits EVS?

[Expressflight]

Yes, that could be possible with improved lighting and removal of all possible approach path obstructions etc.. Does SOU have runway centreline lighting at present? I know SEN were hopeful of reducing the RVR approach minima to 550m and I carried out a survey of all RVR data over a number of years which showed that only around 15% of those were between 550m and 750m, so the practical difference it would make in reducing away diversions was not that great.

[TCAS FAN]

Yes, my post 601 refers.

[SWBKCB]

While it gets this thread excited, does anybody know what actual real world impact of reduced visibility is at SOU? How often affected, flights diverted?

[Expressflight]

The CAA used to publish the numbers of diverted flights at UK airports but I cannot find them from a quick search. However, perhaps the numbers of cancelled flights at UK airports would have some relevance to diverted flights, as the former is often the result of the latter. On that basis SOU seems to have had more cancelled flight in 2019 than virtually any other UK airport. Of 32,529 SOU movements around 3% were cancelled while at LCY around 2% were cancelled - both having CAT I ILS.

Maybe someone has access to the actual CAA diverted flights statistics.

[Dropoffcharge]

Something else to mention when this usual SOU RVR topic pops up is ref to any future plans for getting a LCC based (post any extension) CAT3 lighting is generally a requirement, diverting A320/737 aircraft is a costly exercise and heavily frowned upon by the likes of EZY and RYN.

[Flitefone]

SWBKCB

…negligible impact on an annual basis, LCY and the 3 Channel Island Airports suffer rather more. But like most airports with a single runway, x-winds likely equally problematic..

[Asturias56]

"SOU seems to have had more cancelled flight in 2019 "

In my experience cancellation is correlated with the airline rather than the airport... :( some are /were pretty bad

[SWBKCB]

And who was the major operator out of SOU in 2019? :ok:

[SKOJB]

Exactly, how many of those cancellations were to do with weather, I bet very few!

[Rivet Joint]

It can be fairly frequent a this time of the year but probably not enough to justify significant investment. I believe they installed some equipment a year or so ago that checks the visibility (previously done by a man on a ladder) which seems to have resulted in less diversions. The runway lighting system must be due an upgrade though. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same one from when the airport opened. A grooved runway like SEN would also help and the runway must be due a resurface. Small things can be done to improve things. The armchair experts on here thought Embraer's larger jets could not use the stands parallel to the runway but we have now seen a number of BA ones use them. Clearly they made changes to improve the operating environment.

On a side note, I see the demolition of South Stoneham House is about to happen. Its a 17 story tower block which 20 departures to the north fly over. I wonder if this will help runway performance a little bit.

[stewyb]

I understand the runway surface is good for another 5 years (not been done since late 90’s so this is disappointing) and agree that the runway approach lighting seems substandard and needs investment!

[TCAS FAN]

The approach and runway edge lighting was upgraded around the time that it was re-surfaced with asphalt. When the latter took place it was grooved but due to having a cross fall for drainage rather than being cambered the grooving does not work as it was intended to. This was the subject of one of my much earlier posts.

[dixi188]

Sometimes the diversions can be due to poor operations planning. About 3 years ago I was maintenance for Flybe at SOU.
One evening at around 2000 just as the last departures took off the fog arrived as forecast. I took a look at the BBC weather and saw that at around 2200 they were showing a little bit of wind picking up and I thought, "That will lift the fog".
We watched the flight tracker as the inbounds all went into the hold. One by one they diverted to EXT, BHX. BRS, CDF. Just as the last one landed at BRS I looked out of the window and could see the runway, the RVR was at least 800m. It was too late for the 8 diverted aircraft to get airborne again. Very big cost in transport and reputation.
If I could see the possible improvement in the vis why couldn't Flybe ops. the met men or the crews? A delay of about 1/2 hour in the departures would have got all 8 aircraft in at SOU. Airport closes at 2300 or 2330.
For info, I did 20 years night freighting around Europe and got a lot of experience of spring and autumn fogs.

[stewyb]

High Court throw out the two appeals for a judicial review on the runway extension. One step closer to spades in the ground!

[Rivet Joint]

Great news! Fingers crossed this finally clears the way for a business being allowed to invest its own money in its business and creating jobs in the process.

Oh, and there were two objectors it turns out! Guess who the second objector was? BOH airport! Absolutely vile business! Personally there should be repercussions for that kind of behaviour.

[Pringle_]

Care to elaborate on what these repercussions might be?

[Dropoffcharge]

Rivet Joint

Hardly surprising tho is it, doesn't this happen in business every day, am pretty sure Tesco's complain everytime a new Lidl is planned to open near one of there stores.

[MerchantVenturer]

The Welsh Government that owns Cardiff Airport formally objected to Bristol Airport's expansion planning application which was rejected last year by North Somerset Council (the rejection decision is currently subject of appeal). In the mid-1990s when BAE sought permission to set up a city airport at Filton one of the objectors to the plan was Bristol Airport. The secretary of state rejected the BAE application after a planning enquiry.

It's about businesses trying to protect their own interests. There is nothing illegal or immoral about it.

[MARKEYD]

Rivet Joint
Quote
“ Oh, and there were two objectors it turns out! Guess who the second objector was? BOH airport! Absolutely vile business! Personally there should be repercussions for that kind of behaviour. “

What do you expect exactly, public flogging , named and shamed or how about being pulled up and asked to explain to a “ Select committee “

It’s business and all companies do it , get over yourself

[stewyb]

BOH has every right to show displeasure not least because they clearly see it as a threat, however their appeal is quite frankly futile and its now obvious that the extension will take place, just when and not if. Understand still on track for S23 opening!

[RW20]

it's pretty obvious that Bournemouth airport are going to object as the Southampton planning permission is a threat to there business.
However I'm sure there will be a few twists to the story yet before any work will begin.
There might be questions now on "is it really necessary" ,given BA involvement and future short field performance aircraft in the pipeline

[Flitefone]

It is fair to say that this is pretty normal practice, during the Airport Commission process (remember that big development debate!?) easyJet came out publicly against LGW development and BA against LHR, neither airline wanted the additional capacity that would give competitors free reign at their main bases.

In the end still nothing has been built, nor is likely in the foreseeable.

The good news for SOU is that for the time being, the existing infrastructure is just fine and the airport will rub along nicely as traffic recovers and corporate aircraft usage grows.

The bad news is that in the medium term the aircraft du jour will increasingly be A321neo - see Wizz, Jet2, Ezy, BA etc. These 235 seat aircraft need big stands and bigger runways.

For TUI & RYR its already the Max, which is smaller and less constrained.

[TCAS FAN]

Great news that the last hurdle has now been passed. Did not see any "no win/no fee" provision for the NIMBYs/tree huggers that contributed to the crowdfunding on the AXO wensite, so presume they will not get their money back!

When work finally commences would love to know the cunning plan for retaining the 20 displaced threshold in place. As its 45 metres from the beginning of paved surface the remainder of the 60 metre pre-threshold runway strip-end and RESA is grass, and therefore subject to excavation. If planned right it could be a case of night work to excavate/backfill to restore the surface for next morning's ops. This of course will also be the case for the 02 overrun strip-end and RESA.

Will be watching the AIS website for relevant NOTAMs to see if they manage to do it

[shamrock7seal]

SOU's extension should be done quickly to help support the incumbent carriers to operate more efficiently. For existing SOU operators using the ERJ-145's or even ERJ-190's they are hit with payload penalties which doesn't do anyone any favours. The E2 and A220 I believe will also need the longer runway length (?) to operate completely freely (unless i'm mistaken) - and these aircraft are not the model that BOH is interested in so I see no immediate threat.

Flitefone's comments about LCC's increasingly using A321NEO aircraft with over 220/230 seats is an important one. BOH and SOU will continue to operate in a complimentary manner long into the future in my opinion.

[Rivet Joint]

Ok to answer the usual suspects where did I state that there should be repercussions for BOH and not the other businesses that have carried out similar tactics? Of course businesses try to sue each other but there is always an element where a vaguely legitimate argument can cling to. More often than not if tax payer money is being used to help a competitor or there have been underhand tactics to steel business or distort markets.
Regardless of who it is I absolutely do not think anyone can justify one business trying to stop another business from investing its own money in its own business and I would be astounded if anyone on this forum thought differently.

let’s not forget that we are not talking about a letter of objection at the planning stage, which indeed BOH lodged and are entitled to do so. This latest revelation is that they submitted a challenge in the highest court in the land which isn’t exactly a place where you raise matters of this nature. I also think civilisation wouldn’t have come this far if rivals could simply stop competitors from investing their own money in their own business out of jealously or insecurity like BOH’s points seem to come down to. I suppose all the numerous shops that have gone out of business should have sued Amazon for putting them out of business? So when I talk about repercussions I mean for wasting the high courts time and for anti-competitive behaviour which by the way airlines have been fined for as do people who waste the courts time.

I want to make it clear that even when the extension is built I see it having pretty much no affect on BOH as FR and TUI have no interest in having a large base south of London and oldies in BOH are their customer base down here. I wonder if it’s fair to say that passenger flights aren’t even a big part of BOHs business as it has a diverse revenue stream. SOU Will just be able to open routes to further destinations and generate a higher yield by having less payload restrictions.

[rog747]

To our Chaps and all our good friends here -
Sorry to bang on and have yet another reality check here again but none of those types of aircraft mentioned are simply not yet in the mix for SOU airports' expansion plans.
BA were unable to fill up (even selling tickets at rock bottom prices) on many of it's flights this summer on their newly launched summer sun routes -
Yes, we know it was a most difficult summer, but that sort of business model may not stand the test of time.
But I really do hope BA return to SOU for 2022 as I will like to use them again.

As an aside observation from our neighbours at BOH, Easy Jet's 3 new BOH domestic routes (using A320Neo's much of the time) to BFS EDI and LPL, will end next week with no winter schedule for them. I heard that some of these flights (not in high season though for EDI and BFS which were more than 80%) were running at 30% - sorry I cannot amplify that much further, save to say that some folk who flew, and who did use the routes to LPL and EDI all said they would have continued to do so, but sadly all flights end next week.
I too, was about to book to LPL and EDI for NOV but alas now not to be.

TUI have a 737-800 at BOH for winter 2021/2022 flying one rotation on just 5 days of the week to only ACE LPA and TFS, with no WEDS or SAT flights allocated as yet. (TUI at EXT is the same)
Ryanair also fly a 737 on the same 2 days a week BOH-TFS (TUE and FRI) as do TUI, which is almost 800 seats a week to sell.
Ryanair's fares from BOH are from £4.99 to most of their destinations, with LPA and TFS from £14.99 and £19.99.
There is no flight to Palma this winter at all with any airline from BOH nor EXT, until they restart end of MAR/APR 2022.

So that is the current state of play with SOU's neighbours that CAN take the bigger planes that many here lament to see lined up and parked at SOU....Not gonna happen.

I am pleased to see that the PP is hopefully now un-stalled to go-ahead at SOU, but will BOH and SOU continue, as mentioned here, to operate in a complimentary manner long into the future?
Well, BOH and SOU are TBH, like chalk and cheese...

[RW20]

The planning permission won't be going ahead for sometime:
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/19674338.campaigners-battle-southampton-airport-runway-extension/

[SKOJB]

planning permission already granted, it’s the appeal that is stalling things. At least one less now with Bournemouth Airport not contesting any longer!

[TCAS FAN]

According to the Southern Echo "GOESA has the opportunity to renew the application for a judicial review at an oral hearing, and it intends to do that.", but have they actually done that within the apparent seven day limit?

[MARKEYD]

August stats are out for Southampton and unfortunately the BA operation has fared pretty poorly for them
Fares were heavily reduced but still hasn’t made much of an impact
Hopefully next summer things will improve

Bergerac 782 43 pax
Berlin 265 27 pax
Mykonos 120 15 pax
Faro 338 42 pax
Alicante 448 56 pax
Ibiza 641 36 pax
Malaga 700. 30 pax
Palma 1089 60 pax ( shared with TUI hols )

[RW20]

Disappointing pax for BA, let's hope they will return in 2022
The airport will need them ,given that there is no other carrier for the Sun routes.

[stewyb]

BA are returning for S22 and hopeful that numbers will improve. This summer season has seen unprecedented interruptions with many staycations taking place. Apart from Berlin which is to all intents and purposes a positioning flight and Mykonos, numbers although not brilliant are ok for half a season on a 98 seater. With a full summer ahead, people wanting to travel abroad again and with further marketing, BA will do just fine!

[Rivet Joint]

Agreed. Figures this year are not a yardstick and the Alicante and Malaga figures are testament to that. BE served those for over 10 years at fares probably triple the price.

it would be interesting to see the figures for BA’s LCY routes. Obviously a more established base but would be a good comparison.

[cavokblues]

LCY's figures were:

Bergerac- 1427
Berlin - 712
Faro - 2082
Ibiza - 8431
Malaga - 6990
Mykonos - 3861
Palma - 7444

Hard to know how they break down as a load factor as I'm not sure of the frequency. But those Ibiza figures break down to 21 full flights a week, which is quite impressive!

[rog747]

Grateful for the trouble you chaps take to collate the Pax figures and the load factors - are these based just on departures or on round trip traffic?

Just asking as LCY does not surely, have 3 daily IBZ flights...

[MARKEYD]

The load factors are averaging roughly a passenger load on both an outbound and return flight

LCY does indeed have up to 3 flights a day to IBZ in July - Sept tremendously popular !!

I do agree that SOU has been hit badly by customer reaction to travelling abroad and Govt decisions on green / red list countries, but many over UK airports have seen good returning load factors to the Med

BA and SOU have done a lot of advertising and promotions for the flights , BA dropped many of the fares heavily but still pretty grim loads on some routes though
Good to see BA returning and keeping the faith

[Wycombe]

Just asking as LCY does not surely, have 3 daily IBZ flights...

It does indeed, on some days, today being a case in point, even though the airfield closes at lunchtime
(I think one of them returns to SOU)

[rog747]

Well I never ! BACF is doing OK then from LCY on it's sun routes, although this is the last weekend and inbounds of the summer season for most of the Med.

[RW20]

MARKEYD

BA will certainly have to do much better in 2022 at SOU if they are to continue there. Maybe there just isn't the demand for the operation,given Bournemouth Sun route operation.
One thing is sure SOU needs to up there game in attracting more routes and airlines to return to profitability.

[BA318]

All things given SOU has done a fantastic job of attracting operators and routes. Given they were so reliant on Flybe and have managed to attract BA plus the others. Who else is there realistically for SOU to attract?

[stewyb]

Quite right, the airport has recovered brilliantly from BE/Covid and not much more could be expected at this point, maybe a Paris & Frankfurt connection and some winter sun to ALC/AGP etc but all other major routes have been re-instated at frequencies dictated to by current demand. Cup again is half empty with RW20!

[rog747]

Some airline and Tour Operator integration would be a huge start for certainly the BA routes.

I do note that TUI took seats this summer from BA on the PMI flight for Mallorca Package Holidays (not sure if that was an allocation, or just buying in ad-hoc) as TUI had long cancelled it's own summer series from SOU to PMI, IBZ and MAH using Volotea charters.
TUI's charters SOU-PMI was, prev-covid, for a twice weekly A319, 150 seats.

If BA and TUI crunch numbers amicably (with big boys pants on) then TUI can easily fill a sizeable allocation to any of those destinations;
plus, TUI could also offer holidays to the Algarve (FAO) and Costa del Sol (AGP) using the BA SOU flights.
I do not think for one moment that it messes with TUI's BOH or EXT series - SOU has enough catchment of it's own.

Mykonos is very niche, and does really well from LCY (and LHR BA mainline) even in Club Europe cabins, but for TUI accommodation there is way too expensive for TUI to try to sell it as a package; even TUI's own LGW and MAN-JMK series' was dropped yonks ago.
Easy Jet have a huge JMK market from LGW and LTN, along with Santorini too.
Santorini also does really well for BACF and BA from both LCY and LHR, also with TUI flying from LGW and BRS with a weekly TUI 757 or 737M-8.

I think Corfu from SOU would fare much better from SOU than JMK ever can.
There are mass and upmarket niche and mainstream Greek Tour Operators that feature family and also high-end villa and hotel holidays in Corfu and Paxos and SOU is well placed as an alternative to the LON or BRS airports.

It has to be said that the Skiathos series from SOU was pathetic in 2018, again due to no Tour Operator integrations which confounds my feelings about SOU and the way now to go forward.
SOU-JSI with an A319 was canned in 2019 with 2000 seats sold...Was that true?

One route sorely missing from SOU is Verona, it was really popular with Inghams and Crystal Holidays selling Lake and Mountains hotel packages, and coach tours.
Inghams used to take whole plane allocations on a WEDS and SAT with Flybe.
Salzburg could do well too, again this has a WED and SAT turn round day for Tour Operators to Austria's Tyrol.
BACF's aircraft are sized perfectly for these two routes and also Corfu.

If anyone wants to employ me (sic) haha lol I really could get the Tour Operators on-board, but seriously though, [i][b]no one seems to be doing it.
Folk are gagging to book but need to be aware of what's on offer and what/where can be offered from SOU.
Travel Agents and Tour Operators must be on-board.

Domestic routes out of SOU have been hard and slow so far to gain momentum again, as is AMS FRA DUB and CDG - so maybe the Sun and Lakes leisure markets is the way to go.

Best all for a good weekend - the last one of the historic summer holiday charter series season.

[RW20]

Lots of speculation,but the reality is that the airport is not a Sun airport ,but has a niche in the domestic routes,can these sustain the airport?
The runway extension is the lifeline,given that it can then complete better with nearby Sun airports

[Alteagod]

And now the T3 program to BHD is up the left as well.

[BA318]

I would imagine one reason for the routes chosen was because they already operate from LCY so it probably made it easier to add more. Alicante was a route not served from LCY and seemed to do well so maybe that will inspire them. But don’t forget it’s been a year with a pandemic and constantly changing travel rules and regulations. For what they have managed is pretty decent. Exeter or Southend for example have added very few routes.

[RW20]

with respect Southend was just an overspil airport pre covid,and Exeter is constrained by Bristol,yes SOU has fared reasonably well in the pandamic,but it's limited runway and stands is a problem .The airport needs maximum publicity and development to take it on from post civic restrictions.

[stewyb]

Alteagod

Care to explain what you mean?

[rog747]

Does it mean that T3 (Eastern Airways) has given up their BHD route (Belfast City Airport) ??

[Wycombe]

Their booking engine suggests otherwise, with 2 rotations (1 on J41) showing on various weekdays over the coming months
(the ATR flights routing via CWL appear to have been dropped, after only a few weeks)

Eastern (as demonstrated above) are known for their short-notice schedule changes!

[SKOJB]

Don’t think I would ever book with this lot as you can never be certain of flight/route cancellations, they seem all over the show!

[RW20]

Wycombe

Clearly there are over optimistic contributors to SOU threads,the runway extension appeals will drag on into 2022,at best given rejection of the appeals,the extension won't be ready to after the Summer season 2023.This alone gives Bournemouth and to a certain extent Exeter time to build on there already rapid recovery and increasing route structure. Bournemouth have shown that there is very good business with Easy to Scotland,and indeed could capitalise on opening a Amsterdam schedule .
Southampton management need to pull out all the stops on pushing BACF to the front,this is the airport short term lifeline,the domestic scene with 59-72 seaters isn't going to sustain great passenger growth.

[EI-BUD]

Just getting up to speed on this thread and developments on same. Couple of things stand out. Firstly, kudos to SOU for huge business development to try to fill the gaps left by Flybe's collapse.

Seems logical that BOH would try to draw all levers in any developments by SOU. They certainly have some good reason to be concerned. Any improvement in the runway infrastructure at SOU has the potential to reduce the price of poker. Giving Ryanair a bargaining chip opposite BOH can only drive fees and charges downwards. Moreover, while it is excellent to attract BACF, this is a mode of convenience for BACF until their corporate activity improves at LCY. While that segment is way behind and may never be as great as it is was, some competitors have to exited. They'll also find new business orientated routes as they broadly enjoy the lion's share of ops at LCY. No reason why SOU can't gain weekend ops to compliment BACFs LCY ops. BA will be keeping a watchful eye on corporate activity and nobody really knows what that will look like in the Spring.

When SOU extend the runway a low cost operator is the obvious addition at volume. If it's not easyJet, it'll likely be Wizz. Given easyJet scale at LGW, they may like to have the SOU business and deter others. Once competition kicks off it will be make or break for BOH. In my estimation, both SOU and BOH are primarily supported by the local market for their business and less inbound traffic. SOU has the big ticket items of cruise, a significant freight port and the city has a larger population than BOH. So for all these reasons, if SOU can accept the aircraft it would be the preferred local airport.

[Sharklet_321]

Southampton and Bournemouth catchments when combined are big enough to warrant a major regional airport. However, the reason they currently do not have a 5 mppa airport on the doorstep is threefold: 1) Bournemouth airport is positioned too far from the main urban areas so will never be able to support high frequency regional connections, 2) Southampton airport is space restricted both runway and apron and can't (currently) offer adequate LCC operations, 3) both locations are close to Heathrow and Gatwick, but Southampton is very close - in fact it's closer to LHR than other other regional airport in the UK at just 60 miles.

The future for SOU especially post pandemic (not over yet!) is going to have to be LCC with improved runway length and additional apron space in order to address all 3 points above.

Till then it's status quo.

[AirUK]

Southampton/Eastleigh has always been - and will always primarily remain - a business airport for Hampshire and border areas of neighbouring counties and lifeline link to the Channel Islands, with the occasional seasonal leisure flight. It doesn’t need to be anything else because the area is very well catered for by London airports and larger charters from Bournemouth. The status quo is just fine, as it has been for decades.

[SKOJB]

BOH obviously don’t feel the same if their recent appeal against the court judgment is anything to go by!

[Wycombe]

RW20

Not sure why you're making points directly to me (maybe hoping to influence?), but as you have my thoughts are as follows....

- I don't think any of us know the exact timescales for the runway extension, but (assuming legal obstacles are overcome) I agree it seems unlikely it will be done in 2022

- I'm not sure where you see "rapid recovery and increasing route structure" at BOH and EXT? Looking at today's schedules as an example, SOU has 24 inbound and outbound scheduled airline movements. BOH has 3 and EXT has 5. I can't see that changing much through the Winter (there will be some ski flights at SOU and BOH, as we know, but nothing very much different to pre-Covid times, apart from BA doing some of what Flybe did (eg, CMF, SZG) at SOU.

- Yes, 2 of the 3 EZY routes that ran from BOH during the Summer did ok, but they are seasonal, and as people switch back to more foreign travel next year, may not do so well.

- SOU is mainly about high-frequency "business oriented" schedules on its key routes (eg, today there are 4 LOG rotations to both EDI and GLA), and will always be a better choice than BOH for these, due to the latter's location and inferior connectivity. Frequency to AMS (and others) will no doubt increase as demand dictates. Who do you think would operate an AMS route from BOH?

- Agree it would be great to see CFE do more from SOU, but the reality is that their honey-pot is LCY (which seems to be recovering quite well) and I'm sure they will have all their fleet back there as soon as it's commercially advantageous to do so.

As has been said many times, SOU and BOH are different animals, and have their own niches. I can't see this changing much. Even with the runway extension, SOU is not optimised for anything other than fairly small-scale low-cost ops. BOH has the space and runway to be so, but it's location doesn't work in it's favour.

[cavokblues]

Unless LCY's weekend hours change CFE will always be looking to do something, somewhere other than LCY at the weekend. The regions, BRS, BHX and Manchester didn't really work due to crewing logistics so I think they will be prepared to do another season at Southampton at the weekends. I would be very surprised if SOU ever became anything other than a place for them for their planes to do some weekend flying.

[Wycombe]

Agreed, I overlooked the LCY weekend opening hours situation. In the past CFE used to do a lot of charters out of Scotland at the weekends, but I think this changed when they closed a base up there.

[muggins]

Wycombe

They did a lot of charters for Barrhead Travel at the weekends from the Scottish airports, obviously not last year or this.

[RW20]

Looking at BACF operation,given it was late coming on,just.wasn't advertised enough!
At the.moment local radio is advertising throughout the day flights to the Sun for 2022 and also Salzburg and Chambery winter ski,from guess where? ...... Bristol
SOU management and BACF need to get there act together if the airport is to.progress.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Advertising wasn't the problem in S21. Covid testing and travel restrictions across the UK and Europe were. Keep in mind that S21 demand was very limp nationally for leisure travel to the Med, and many of those who did brave the required tests and restrictions were redeeming time-critical travel vouchers from earlier cancelled trips. With BACF being a new entrant at SOU, they didn't even have voucher redemptions to backfill capacity. It was just a very tough market. But SOU enjoys a prosperous catchment area, so if Covid testing and travel restrictions are fully removed in time for S22, the demand environment will be a different proposition entirely. BACF will certainly take account of that, how ever they decide to deploy their fleet next Summer.

[EI-BUD]

Hi AirUK, great title by the way. Memories of 146 aircraft at STN in the 90s. Just remembering that this must be 30 yes since the new Stansted opened? I have 1991 in my head. However, unrelated to SOU.

I'd tend to disagree with your perspective. I don't see why if SOU eventually has the infrastructure to facilitate leisure flying at scale why it cannot tap into substantial volumes and pick up those who currently do need to do to London, Bournemouth etc. Hence, I'd see it being more than occasional and seasonal

[RW20]

What is happening on the progress with the runway extension?
There seems to be a black out on the appeal process,I guess it going ahead? What is the timescale and is there further appeals likely?
The developing climate protests including airport expansion is surely going to come to Southampton Airport when the appeal protests are exhausted,are we going to see people sitting on the runway?,the airport boundary is fully exploitable from the Itchen Country park.

[SKOJB]

Nice try RW20 and suggest nobody replies to your continual negative questioning!

[RW20]

How is this negative questioning?
With all that is going on regarding the climate,airport development etc,I would say this is a very relevant set of questions.
We all have to face up to the fact that there are going to be major changes to regional airports,the bucket and spade days are gone.
We don't need all the airports in the UK, Covid 19 has exposed this fact, Southend for example which quoted SOU progress as an expansion example in recent years is a dead duck!I
SKOJB you and other well known contributors to the SOU blog have valid opinions,but please do not try to influence other contributors who have views contrary to your beliefs!

[SWBKCB]

the bucket and spade days are gone.

Are you having a laugh? Social media isn't the real world, talk to some normal people and ask them about their holiday plans.

[BA318]

What do you mean the bucket and spade days are gone? Any evidence for it? As it looks it’s the bucket and spade travellers keeping things afloat at the moment. Most new routes being added across Europe are holiday focused.

[TCAS FAN]

Would have hoped that SOU would have taken the initiative to provide updates, cannot see anything on their website to indicate this.

Maybe now is the time for SOU to think outside of the box to counter AXO and their tree hugging allies? The land in the northeast corner of the airport site is near impossible to economically develop due to access problems. With the SAM VOR’s days numbered maybe time to devote part of the land to a nature reserve and maybe plant a few trees? Remember frequently seeing many deer outside the boundary fence in that area.

By all means keep some land in reserve for future use, long term car parking of even the slightest chance of Terminal 2 (LOL) but return the rest to nature?

[zantopst]

TCAS FAN. I seem to recall that the land in the northeast corner is all part of the Southampton Freeport proposal.

[TCAS FAN]

Due to access difficulties, which will be even worse when the runway extension goes in, suggest that any significant development in the northeast corner is probably pie in the sky unless part of the rail yard can be procured. Unless this can be done a tunnel would be prohibitively expensive, partly due to a major gas pipeline running east/west across the runway development area (no mention of any tunnel in the runway extension planning application) leaving surface access the only option.

Due to proximity of the runway surface access would need to be controlled, only possible between aircraft movements. This issue came up many years ago when a previous attempt at development in the northeast corner was being planned. Planners indicated that ATC could control traffic lights, to which a very short reply was forthcoming, second word being “off”!

[055166k]

Another reality day. Southampton traffic stacked up and holding for weather (fog). Bournemouth traffic landing without problem in similar conditions (eg B737/bizjet.. etc). An extra few metres of runway won't improve things... Dreamland?

[TCAS FAN]

BOH = ILS CAT III

SOU = ILS CAT I

Same situation with LCY vs STN or LTN

For the rare occasions that it happens the airlines will take the hit. SOU is where the punters want to fly to.

[MerchantVenturer]

https://simpleflying.com/istanbul-europe-busiest-airport/

SOU along with three other UK airports is on Istanbul Airport's 'desired list of destinations in Europe'. See fifth paragraph in above linked report.

If this has been mentioned before my apologies - I could not find anything looking back through this thread.

[davidjohnson6]

Sounds like somebody who works in business development at IST knows the likely audience of a publication, and wants to target their message to those people. When negotiating in business, one begins with a silly price and gradually move towards something more realistic - same in this case with saying one hopes for 4 airports to be linked to IST when one expects to get no more than 2 any time soon. It seems wishful thinking to expect SOU has a route to Turkey before either Bristol or Newcastle - so there will be a number of years to wait.

Had it been (e.g.) a French website doing the interview, I imagine the talk would have been of a very different set of routes.

[RW20]

TCAS FAN

I think you have explained SOU approach aids and limitations on past occasions,I believe 900 mtrs RVR is the very high minimum for 20 operations,which perhaps is just one of the highest in the country for Cat 1 approach.

[Musket90]

Like BOH, SOU also has runway centreline lights at 15m spacing which means for take-off the RVR minima for both airports should be similar.

[RW20]

That's true,but the difference is that there is no aircraft to take off from SOU if the RVR is 800mtrs or less prohibiting landings!

[Musket90]

If FlyBe were still around with their overnight based aircraft then it would be a benefit for the first wave morning departures but sadly this is no longer the case. Let's hope another operator can eventually fill this gap.

[TCAS FAN]

The flip side is when the airport went below limits in the early evening and the based aircraft ended up in EXT/BOH/BRS/BHX leaving an empty apron next morning. Recovering something near to a normal operation would the take the rest of the next day or even in to the following day.

[Buster the Bear]

Portsmouth and surrounding area has a large Turkish population.

[SWBKCB]

But not a large runway at SOU that would allow TK to operate a scheduled service to Istanbul

[TCAS FAN]

RW20

A technicality, for a CAT C aircraft (which most SOU arrivals are) with the combination of approach lighting and MDH available, under EU OPS criteria the approach minima is 800 metres, so the approach ban comes in less than RVR 800.

[adfly]

Looks like Aurigny/Blue Islands have now put Guernsey on sale with the morning flight operated by Aurigny and all others by Blue Islands.

Jersey has had a frequency boost by Blue Islands and there are a couple more flights to Guernsey compared to this year too.

Alderney - 14 weekly Aurigny D28 (2x every day)
Guernsey - 23 weekly Aurigny (7x) and Blue Islands (16x) AT7 (4x Mon/Fri and 3x on all other days)
Jersey - 26 weekly Blue Islands AT7 (4x Mon-Fri, 3x Sat/Sun)

[Wycombe]

Looks like from today that the Eastern MAN service is being operated by a J41 that comes from (and returns to) LBA. Guess this is to free up an ATR for the LGW-NQY route which starts next week?

[SKOJB]

Looks like from today that the Eastern MAN service is being operated by a J41 that comes from (and returns to) LBA. Guess this is to free up an ATR for the LGW-NQY route which starts next week?

And to think MAN was once the airports busiest route!

[RW20]

And to think MAN was once the airports busiest route!
Domestic pax from the airport are likely to decrease rather then increase,the airport desperately needs to have other routes,but this goes with the runway extension ( is this going to happen?) . As with a lot of regional airports - difficult times ahead!

[adfly]

Looks like from today that the Eastern MAN service is being operated by a J41 that comes from (and returns to) LBA. Guess this is to free up an ATR for the LGW-NQY route which starts next week?
Must be, presumably the remaining ATR does BHD/DUB/BHD. I assume they are the stronger routes for Eastern. Striking that they can't even manage a day return to MAN. Wonder if they have a plan for the summer - can they afford another ATR for SOU or will they use the E190 I wonder?

Loganair seem to be doing pretty much matching Flybe's former frequency to EDI/GLA, even if they are using smaller aircraft (but charging more!).

[Sharklet_321]

Seems there will be a delay to the extension as it has been called in for Judicial Review

[RW20]

Seems there will be a delay to the extension as it has been called in for Judicial Review
The economics and covid has allowed very strong arguments to surface for the extension to never happen,and I'm sure the airport are now rather concerned.
Bournemouth airport however has in place all the requirements for holiday traffic should it return to normal (which is nowhere certain).
The question remains can SOU survive with what will be dwindling domestic traffic, the area might only require one airport in the future,Bournemouth has the runway,aids and stand capacity to provide the requirements.With transport links urgently needed to be improved,could then be the last link required.

[RW20]

With the onset of difficult times ahead for all households,will the runway extension now go ahead?,domestic pax are likely to continue to decrease, holidays in the sun more expensive
The question : is the investment in the runway extension financially viable in tough financial times? I believe it isnt.
​​​​
​​​

[SKOJB]

Isn’t the investment coming from a private company, therefore it has nothing to do with Joe public and the tax payer, you have clearly had a life changing experience with the airport in times gone by which has scarred you for life!

[SWBKCB]

I believe it isnt.

So you've told us - many times...

[Link Kilo]

Was this not all thrashed out on the existing Southampton thread? Not sure it warrants a new one.

https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599769-southampton-2-a-68.html#post10936775

[RW20]

Was this not all thrashed out on the existing Southampton thread? Not sure it warrants a new one.

https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599769-southampton-2-a-68.html#post10936775
A lot of things have moved on from then- Keep up!

[stewyb]

A lot of things have moved on from then- Keep up!

unfortunately you are not one of them!

[bad bear]

Admittedly we are just emerging from a pandemic and its middle of winter but the departures board and many airports makes depressing viewing. Wick, Inverness, Prestwick, Carlisle, Doncaster, Norwich, Southend, Cardiff, Exeter, all of them with 2, 3,4 and sometimes as many a 6 departures per day. Southampton seems to be doing rather well.

[EI-BUD]

I think the question isn't so much can they afford to do it (viability) but rather can they afford not to. They need to grow the business and be ready for whatever form the demand will take, whether that be momor leisure orientated or the return of business travel. There definitely is pent up demand.

[SWBKCB]

This is the most recent thread:

Southampton-3 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/637145-southampton-3-a-35.html#post11154097)

And this is the last post

The economics and covid has allowed very strong arguments to surface for the extension to never happen,and I'm sure the airport are now rather concerned.
Bournemouth airport however has in place all the requirements for holiday traffic should it return to normal (which is nowhere certain).
The question remains can SOU survive with what will be dwindling domestic traffic, the area might only require one airport in the future,Bournemouth has the runway,aids and stand capacity to provide the requirements.With transport links urgently needed to be improved,could then be the last link required.

Not a lot of things have moved on from then

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Is your house on the flightpath by any chance RW20 ? That might explain why a Southampton based person has such a bee in their bonnet?

[Wycombe]

That might explain why a Southampton based person has such a bee in their bonnet?

....and seems to be so much in favour of a larger airfield on the other side of the New Forest!

[ETOPS]

Any runway work accomplished now will appear cheap in a few years time.

[stewyb]

All I can say is that the airport and owners are 100% fully committed to seeing this project through to a successful completion!

[MARKEYD]

Meantime back in the real world ….

TUI have contracted BA cityflyer to continue operating the Palma flights for this summer with a stand alone flight in the afternoon on a Saturday, instead of Volotea
BA cityflyer are also operating on a Sunday to Palma a shared flight with TUI holidays
It does come unfortunately at a cost with Tuesday services with Volotea now cancelled for this summer

[davidjohnson6]

Flybe disappeared 2 years ago, and its revival is unlikely to grow to the same size for a long time. Soton cannot rely on one carrier any more
The future of commercial passenger aviation is 100+ seat aircraft, not sub-75 seat aircraft

SOU can either extend its runway and hope to survive long term... or be assured of long term decline into irrelevancy. I hope only that the extension planned is enough

Think of how airports with grass runways acted in the years post WW2... or examine the case of Sheffield STOLport

[055166k]

Sheffield's problems included subsidence. Even the biggest airports can be affected, for example Burtonwood was the largest US base in Europe. A forty years plus career in aviation at a variety of airports leads me to disagree with your 100+ seating capacity remark......regional airport success for the business community pax depends on frequency and connectivity. As for the runway extension, it will be practically useless without a major upgrade in landing aid and associated lighting.....and the LDA is not being increased anyway. Even now there is still the comical circling approach due lack of Regulated airspace.

[bad bear]

Even now there is still the comical circling approach due lack of Regulated airspace. yes, the people who are currently using that airspace cant just disappear so this is another good reason why Southampton should not expand. As many people have said there is a perfectly good airfield just a few miles to the west with plenty of regulated airspace and wasting the scarce resource that is airspace having two very quiet airfields with two portions of airspace is not a good use of that resource. If we look at the arrivals board there are not that many arrivals from the north, particularly during the hours that the airspace to the north is actually very busy, so no pressing need to extend the airspace north.

[TCAS FAN]

Sheffield's problems included subsidence. Even the biggest airports can be affected, for example Burtonwood was the largest US base in Europe. A forty years plus career in aviation at a variety of airports leads me to disagree with your 100+ seating capacity remark......regional airport success for the business community pax depends on frequency and connectivity. As for the runway extension, it will be practically useless without a major upgrade in landing aid and associated lighting.....and the LDA is not being increased anyway. Even now there is still the comical circling approach due lack of Regulated airspace.

Do not understand the logic of starting a new Southampton thread when Southampton-3, and its predecessors served us well.

IMHO it appears that a new thread has already brought with it a number of factually incorrect/misleading statements. I will deal with those above first, the other will be addressed in my next post to another player.

While I do not dispute any subsidence issue with Sheffield City, my perception is that its financial viability came into doubt when operators pulled out due to a lack of Controlled Airspace and provision of a Radar Surveillance service. This resulted in a number of Airproxes involving Sheffield traffic when operating in Class G airspace (aka bandit country!). Interest in using the airport soon diminished.

SOU is in need of the extended declared distances that the runway extension will bring in order to increase the viability of destinations beyond southern Spain and the Balearics. I would however point out that the 02 LDA could well increase, albeit that this would be a bonus beyond the increased TORA/TODA that are sought. Linked to both LDA and TORA is the change to take-off performance calculations afforded by the new contaminated runway criteria that was introduced worldwide in November 2021. Unlike the previous criteria there is now no performance penalty when a runway is reported WET, providing that any water is 3MM or less in depth and the runway surface is such that it does not require declaration of SLIPPERY WET.

Based on evidence seen at SEN the A320's & B738s (presumably SFP) can handle LDA's less than that already available at SOU.

On the subject of upgrades to landing aids and lighting, we have already done that one to death at Southampton-3. Any discussions with current/prospective operators will have probably covered this in that it is impracticable to make significant improvements. So any continued interest will have apparently accepted what is going to be available. Look at LCY's limits!

The "comical circling approach" has also been done to death on Southanpton 2 & 3, what I used to refer to as a Winchester 2 arrival on 20 as you got to see Winchester twice! To their credit SOU's owners are at last looking to resolve this by embarking on an Airspace Change Proposal to extend the CTA to the north. This was temporarily suspended due to Covid, but is imminently about to restart.

[TCAS FAN]

yes, the people who are currently using that airspace cant just disappear so this is another good reason why Southampton should not expand. As many people have said there is a perfectly good airfield just a few miles to the west with plenty of regulated airspace and wasting the scarce resource that is airspace having two very quiet airfields with two portions of airspace is not a good use of that resource. If we look at the arrivals board there are not that many arrivals from the north, particularly during the hours that the airspace to the north is actually very busy, so no pressing need to extend the airspace north.

On the contrary BOH does not have "plenty of regulated airspace". Aircraft being vectored for runway 08 have to invaraibly be vectored outside of regulated (ie Controlled Airspace) due to a lack of it to the west of BOH. I refer you to UK AIP ENR 1.6, para 1.4.1 which specifies this.

[Rivet Joint]

Mods, please close down this thread.

Nothing has changed at SOU to warrant a question over its future and it has been started by a longstanding troll with the intention to antagonise other users. I can speak from personal experience that this individual is driving other users away from visiting this site as a result of their trolling. They have been at this for the best part of two years now so surely a ban is in order. Enough is enough surely?

The fact anyone would question whether a private business is right to invest its own money in its own property is mind blowing but of course the intention here is not to instigate a healthy debate.

[bad bear]

TCAS FAN, "I refer you to UK AIP ENR 1.6, para 1.4.1 which specifies this." very interesting ! I would love to know why the procedure allows a platform at 1,500' where the base is 2,000'. I feel sure there is a story there? it looks at first glance that an aeroplane maintaining 2,500 to the west and be within the airspace till capturing the glide but I guess not.

[RW20]

Mods, please close down this thread.

Nothing has changed at SOU to warrant a question over its future and it has been started by a longstanding troll with the intention to antagonise other users. I can speak from personal experience that this individual is driving other users away from visiting this site as a result of their trolling. They have been at this for the best part of two years now so surely a ban is in order. Enough is enough surely?

The fact anyone would question whether a private business is right to invest its own money in its own property is mind blowing but of course the intention here is not to instigate a healthy debate.
Rivet joint you fail to realise that that things have changed due to covid,looking at the very recent threads there has been very little SOU chat,but there is now!
There's been healthy debate since,but I note you have not been evident. The airport to survive needs to move away from UK destinations ,but it's limitations are apparent and the long going Runway extension may be put on the back burner further to financial restrictions

[mwm991]

Wouldn't say it's particularly great. Some of that is down to market conditions but some of it is also down to the poor ownership. They operate three stagnant airports.

[TCAS FAN]

Wouldn't say it's particularly great. Some of that is down to market conditions but some of it is also down to the poor ownership. They operate three stagnant airports.

Totally disagree, you obviously have no understanding of the airport’s history, please don’t make generic statements about things that you cannot substantiate. If you want to get involved in poor ownership issues, there is one much closer to home, Carlisle.

I worked through a number of airport owners’ regimes, including Bl**dy Awful Airports Plc who were originally responsible, due to a lack of long term planning, for the state of the airport that the current owners bought into.

Although not perfect the current owners are the first to have invested in securing a future for the airport by applying for a runway extension and also solving the lack of controlled airspace that BAA chose to accept, rather than challenge, when CAA re-designed controlled airspace into what is now the Solent CTA.

[Buster the Bear]

Loganair will code share with BA on certain routes making them available on the British Airways website.

[Buster the Bear]

Should Southampton be successful with their City of Culture bid for 2025, even more reason why a local airport could help with tourism.

If the planned start up Odyssey (?) at London City were planning to operate to New York from London City with a two-twenty fleet, the major issue that the airport may face is a lack of large stands. Slightly extending the runway will certainly benefit attracting airlines.

[TCAS FAN]

TCAS FAN, "I refer you to UK AIP ENR 1.6, para 1.4.1 which specifies this." very interesting ! I would love to know why the procedure allows a platform at 1,500' where the base is 2,000'. I feel sure there is a story there? it looks at first glance that an aeroplane maintaining 2,500 to the west and be within the airspace till capturing the glide but I guess not.

Its a very long and complex story. The RWY 08 ILS instrument approach procedure is designed in accordance with ICAO PANS OPS Doc 8168, as adopted by the UK. This specifies descent gradients which are applied with regards to the surrounding obstacle environment. BOH is fortunate in that surrounding obstacles permit a descent to 1500 FT on the outbound leg of the IAP, thereby keeping the overall track miles necessary to fly the procedure to a minimum.

The instrument approach descent profile should be considered when designing Controlled Airspace, in that an ICAO Annex 11 Standard, which the UK said it complied with but ignored when the present Controlled Airspace was designed in the late 1980s, required (and still does) that IAP are enclosed within Controlled Airspace.

I am not aware of any action taken by the BOH airport operator, past or present, to resolve this issue.

Radar vectoring to the IAP will require sufficient track miles to permit ATC to provide a base leg and then a closing heading to intercept the LLZ, with ideally a period of level flight before GP intercept. Hence the IAP entry to warn of the likelihood of leaving Controlled Airspace, which should of course be of adequate extent (IAW Annex 11) to contain aircraft within.

[TCAS FAN]

Thanks Mods for sorting out the nonsensical new thread and placing all posts where they should be.

[N123JB]

Blue Islands have removed SOU-MAN/DUB from their booking system...

[adfly]

It would appear that Blue Islands have now dropped their plans to serve Dublin and Manchester from Southampton. Source: SeanM1997 on a certain social media site...

Maybe Eastern will be as to increase their frequencies on these routes as the year goes on, but I'm not particularly sure if they have the aircraft to do so unless the E190 starts getting used for more scheduled services, as one of the ATR has gone to Newquay for the Gatwick PSO.

[cavokblues]

It would appear that Blue Islands have now dropped their plans to serve Dublin and Manchester from Southampton. Source: SeanM1997 on a certain social media site...

Maybe Eastern will be as to increase their frequencies on these routes as the year goes on, but I'm not particularly sure if they have the aircraft to do so unless the E190 starts getting used for more scheduled services, as one of the ATR has gone to Newquay for the Gatwick PSO.

I, genuinely, thought those routes would certainly be an instant win for someone like Blue Islands out of Southampton. Have pre-bookings been that bad or is it something else?

[stewyb]

I, genuinely, thought those routes would certainly be an instant win for someone like Blue Islands out of Southampton. Have pre-bookings been that bad or is it something else?

Don’t believe it’s something SOU specific as they have also removed EXE - MAN recently, more likely a change to future business strategy!

[adfly]

Some at odds news from Eastern over the last few days.

- Leeds Bradford to be dropped from 6th March
- Nantes and Rennes have been cancelled
- They are recruiting ATR72 crew for their Southampton base...

Elsewhere there has been mention that Southampton to Manchester may be one of Flybe v2's first routes, with the suggestion that it could infer that Southampton will be a base for them. Also, TUI are no longer using Volotea for Palma flights this summer and instead and selling packages using BA's flights, as they are to some other med destinations as well.

[wanna]

Some at odds news from Eastern over the last few days.

- Leeds Bradford to be dropped from 6th March
- Nantes and Rennes have been cancelled
- They are recruiting ATR72 crew for their Southampton base...

Elsewhere there has been mention that Southampton to Manchester may be one of Flybe v2's first routes, with the suggestion that it could infer that Southampton will be a base for them. Also, TUI are no longer using Volotea for Palma flights this summer and instead and selling packages using BA's flights, as they are to some other med destinations as well.

From looking at the Flybe rumours, i would make more sense BHD - MAN - SOU reverse than a base in SOU. All the social feeds you see is crew training for BHD and BHX only. I cant see them opening a base in SOU anytime soon. Eastern must have realised the market has changed and theres little interest in the French routes. They must have fairly good intel within the French domestic market from their previous ops there.

[BACsuperVC10]

From looking at the Flybe rumours, i would make more sense BHD - MAN - SOU reverse than a base in SOU. All the social feeds you see is crew training for BHD and BHX only. I cant see them opening a base in SOU anytime soon. Eastern must have realised the market has changed and theres little interest in the French routes. They must have fairly good intel within the French domestic market from their previous ops there.

If they fly from BHD to the Northwest, I think Flybe will go to Liverpool, as there is no competition from BHD to LPL, there would be to MAN. Flybe have been training in and out of LPL frequently .

[SKOJB]

Suggestions on another thread that SOU will most likely see a return of BE on MAN/BHD/CDG initially. Clearly a threat to the continuation of Eastern at the airport as they never hang around for long on competitive routes!

[LBIA]

LBA-SOU route axed as the LBA based BAe Jetstream 41 is moving to SOU so to operate SOU-MAN route twice daily from March 7th.
​​​​​

[SKOJB]

BACF add a weekly summer service to Dublin departing on Sunday’s, Berlin has been dropped!

[adfly]

Flybe website reporting that they will launch the following routes from Southampton, all from late July:

Avignon - 1x weekly
Belfast City - 7x weekly increasing to 11x weekly from mid Sept
Toulon - 1x weekly

Timings not up yet as routes aren't on sale. Nothing too surprising, probably a lot more sensible looking than some of the other routes announced! No Southampton to Manchester as previously rumoured, that that is probably tricky logistically if their only bases are currently planned for Belfast City and Brum.

Update: flights now on sale, Belfast has a mid/late morning and evening flight Mon and Weds-Fri, one flight on Tues/Sat/Sun.

Avignon is served on Sat, and Toulon on Sun by an aircraft that appears to overnight stay at Southampton. Not sure how it gets in/out and the Belfast flight timings don't appear to tie up with it.

[BOHEuropean]

Southampton Flybe Summer 2022 routes

From 23rd July until 18th September:

BE1523 SOUTHAMPTON AVIGNON 3:05 PM 6:05 PM DH8D FLYBE SATURDAY 23rd July 2022 17th September 2022
BE1524 AVIGNON SOUTHAMPTON 6:55 PM 8:05 PM DH8D FLYBE SATURDAY 23rd July 2022 17th September 2022
BE1823 SOUTHAMPTON TOULON 7:40 AM 11:00 AM DH8D FLYBE SUNDAY 24th July 2022 18th September 2022
BE1824 TOULON SOUTHAMPTON 11:35 AM 1:00 PM DH8D FLYBE SUNDAY 24th July 2022 18th September 2022

From 28th July until 14th September:

BE983 BELFAST SOUTHAMPTON 10:40 AM 12:05 PM DH8D FLYBE DAILY 28th July 2022 14th September 2022
BE984 SOUTHAMPTON BELFAST 12:35 PM 2:05 PM DH8D FLYBE DAILY 28th July 2022 14th September 2022

From 15th September until 29th October:

BE983 BELFAST SOUTHAMPTON 9:30 AM 10:55 AM DH8D FLYBE MONDAY, TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, FRIDAY, SATURDAY
BE984 SOUTHAMPTON BELFAST 11:25 AM 12:55 PM DH8D FLYBE MONDAY, TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, FRIDAY, SATURDAY
BE987 BELFAST SOUTHAMPTON 5:45 PM 7:10 PM DH8D FLYBE MONDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, FRIDAY, SUNDAY
BE988 SOUTHAMPTON BELFAST 7:40 PM 9:10 PM DH8D FLYBE MONDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, FRIDAY, SUNDAY

[adfly]

With the summer season now underway there are a few frequency increases taking effect over the next few weeks and months. Good to see the airport slowly but surely growing back towards where it was pre pandemic.

BA Cityflyer

30/04 - New route to Florence 1 weekly
14/05 - New route to Dublin 1 weekly
14/05 - New route to Limoges 1 weekly
14/05 - New route to Nice 1 weekly

Blue Islands

27/03 - Jersey increases from 21 to 22 weekly

Eastern - appear to need two ATR's from mid April to operate their planned schedule, no idea where the second will come from with the Newquay PSO needing one of the existing two, or if it will become a J41...

16/04 - Belfast City increases from 6 to 7 weekly (Sat flight added)
17/04 - Dublin increases from 4 to 7 weekly
22/05 - Belfast City increases to 13 weekly
23/05 - Manchester increases from 6 to 11 weekly

Flybe - Returning later in the year, the timings of the French leisure flights suggest an SOU based aircraft, I do wonder if we are awaiting an additional announcement from them, especially with the previous rumours of SOU-MAN being one of their early routes...

23/07 - New route to Avignon 1 weekly
24/07 - New route to Toulon 1 weekly
28/07 - New route to Belfast City 7 weekly
15/09 - Belfast City increases to 11 weekly

KLM -

27/03 - Amsterdam increases from 4 to 7 weekly
20/06 - Amsterdam increases to 14 weekly

Loganair -

27/03 - Newcastle increases from 12 to 13 weekly
01/04 - Edinburgh increases from 19 to 23 weekly
01/04 - Glasgow increases from 19 to 22 weekly
01/04 - New route to Aberdeen via Teesside 6 weekly (no Sat)
20/04 - Glasgow increases to 23 weekly

[GCILover]

Any idea on when the hearing will be ref the runway extension?

[wanna]

Flybe - Returning later in the year, the timings of the French leisure flights suggest an SOU based aircraft, I do wonder if we are awaiting an additional announcement from them, especially with the previous rumours of SOU-MAN being one of their early routes...

23/07 - New route to Avignon 1 weekly
24/07 - New route to Toulon 1 weekly
28/07 - New route to Belfast City 7 weekly
15/09 - Belfast City increases to 11 weekly



It will be interesting to see how much of this does operate, we've seen over the last couple of years Blue Islands ambitions to start a base at the airport but never materialising. No doubt due to lack of bookings and the last minute decision to pull the flights. We may see a similar thing with Flybe where some of the flights never actually operate.

[SKOJB]

Flybe - Returning later in the year, the timings of the French leisure flights suggest an SOU based aircraft, I do wonder if we are awaiting an additional announcement from them, especially with the previous rumours of SOU-MAN being one of their early routes...

23/07 - New route to Avignon 1 weekly
24/07 - New route to Toulon 1 weekly
28/07 - New route to Belfast City 7 weekly
15/09 - Belfast City increases to 11 weekly



It will be interesting to see how much of this does operate, we've seen over the last couple of years Blue Islands ambitions to start a base at the airport but never materialising. No doubt due to lack of bookings and the last minute decision to pull the flights. We may see a similar thing with Flybe where some of the flights never actually operate.

BE will blow Eastern out the water with BHD route if current pricing is anything to go by!

[SWBKCB]

Returning later in the year, the timings of the French leisure flights suggest an SOU based aircraft, I do wonder if we are awaiting an additional announcement from them, especially with the previous rumours of SOU-MAN being one of their early routes.

Don't the French leisure flights suggest a short season of not very intensive weekend detachements?

[zantopst]

KLM -

27/03 - Amsterdam increases from 4 to 7 weekly
20/06 - Amsterdam increases to 14 weekly

seems the return to 14 weekly is just for a couple of weeks. Only single flight each day available from July through to end of October on the KLM website

[055166k]

G-JECY surprise visit. Welcome back!

[TCAS FAN]

See in the Airport Operator's latest marketing email "Lets Fly" that "We are delighted to welcome the new Flybe to Southampton Airport".

Presumably they were successful in retreiving all outstanding debts from the previous Flybe by detaining aircraft via liens placed upon them when Flybe Mk1 went down the pan. Were Swissport quite so fortunate?

[bean]

See in the Airport Operator's latest marketing email "Lets Fly" that "We are delighted to welcome the new Flybe to Southampton Airport".

Presumably they were successful in retreiving all outstanding debts from the previous Flybe by detaining aircraft via liens placed upon them when Flybe Mk1 went down the pan. Were Swissport quite so fortunate?
Once the airline went into administration, any assets were frozen prior to the administrators eventually dstrbuting funds based upon payments by creditors. In the case if British Eagle International Airlines, it took 40 years to complete the wind up. Most of the aircraft were never the property of Flybe and once a formal winding up commenced,
were released to their rightful owners, the lessors.Flybe limited are a completely new Airline with nothing orher than existing liabilities connected to start up costs. Ir's UK company law, get it?

[TCAS FAN]

Once the airline went into administration, any assets were frozen prior to the administrators eventually dstrbuting funds based upon payments by creditors. In the case if British Eagle International Airlines, it took 40 years to complete the wind up. Most of the aircraft were never the property of Flybe and once a formal winding up commenced,
were released to their rightful owners, the lessors.Flybe limited are a completely new Airline with nothing orher than existing liabilities connected to start up costs. Ir's UK company law, get it?

Do not dispute company law, however in common with other UK airport operators pursuant to the provisions of Section 88 (1) of the Civil Aviation Act 1982 the airport manager is able (and presumably did) detain Flybe Mk1 aircraft for non payment of airport charges. Maybe the reason why aircraft remained at SOU for sometime after the airline ceased operations?

Swissport, the SOU handling company, is not covered by this section of the Civil Aviation Act and therefore would have needed to stand in line with other creditors to claim whatever pittance, if any, was left when funds were distributed.

[shamrock7seal]

The Swissport CEO is the same guy that was the Stobart CEO who had very strong influence on/with the previous Flybe. There is effectively no bad blood between the two organisations anyway.

[SealinkBF]

[QUOTE=wanna;11207216]

BE will blow Eastern out the water with BHD route if current pricing is anything to go by!

They are now charging £69.99 each way for some dates - which includes 15kg of luggage. FlyBe with luggage starts at £66.99. It's going to be a scrap!

[GCILover]

Has anyone heard what is happening with the appeal against the runway extension?

[stewyb]

Has anyone heard what is happening with the appeal against the runway extension?

Believe it’s being heard within next few weeks

[GCILover]

Fingers crossed they sort it asap and they can crack on with it.

[SKOJB]

Things really looking up at the airport. 30 arrivals tomorrow and for the first time a full schedule of BA flights with 14 inbound!

[Janet Spongthrush]

KL have re-timed KL919/920 from evening to morning (1010/1050 at SOU) from 8-Jul-22 until 26-Aug-22 with no flight at all on Friday 5-Aug-22.

[RW20]

Things really looking up at the airport. 30 arrivals tomorrow and for the first time a full schedule of BA flights with 14 inbound!
Good to see the airport picking up,but apart from weekends the PAX numbers are not exciting,simply domestic routes are now limited and unlightly to provide long term survival for the airport. The only route to survival and development is for the airport to have its runway extension finally approved.Bournemouth have diversified and seem to be doing very well.
Let's hope for a positive announcement very soon,but for Southampton it's critical that the decision does not go against it.