Southampton-3

[rog747]

Easy to slag off Eastern, but what is stopping Air France/Hop operating now?

Indeed,
I too would like to see the Air France CDG service come back with it's Interline connections.

However, we do have KLM (AF's Flying Blue partner) twice daily AMS fights which offer all of the interlining opportunities to many of the same Euro and long haul destinations.
KLM & AF are also now a Virgin Atlantic Flying Club Rewards Partner.
All rather handy for me as I have just booked Venice-AMS-SOU on VS Miles in Business Class, for just 45 euros in Taxes.
With a 2-3 hour stopover in AMS, I can enjoy the rather nice KLM Crown Lounge there.

I can see the AF CDG coming back to SOU, but as for when, I have no idea.
There is of course the Eco hoo hah in France about culling all short domestic flights so maybe the AF CDG-SOU is not top of their list right now.

I think the Eastern ORY flight was frankly useless, and a wasted opportunity.

[TCAS FAN]

According to this morning's Guardian "Green Energy tycoon to launch the first electric airline"

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/17/green-energy-tycoon-to-launch-uk-first-electric-airline

This indicates operations to commence early next year with a Twin Otter between SOU - EDI! Don't think that Loganair will lose any sleep over this competition?

[RW20]

According to this morning's Guardian "Green Energy tycoon to launch the first electric airline"

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/17/green-energy-tycoon-to-launch-uk-first-electric-airline

This indicates operations to commence early next year with a Twin Otter between SOU - EDI! Don't think that Loganair will lose any sleep over this competition?
Probably not ,but might be the way forward on the Paris route?

[TCAS FAN]

Probably not ,but might be the way forward on the Paris route?

There is 350 metres of grass runway at the Issy-Les-Moulineux heliport, might work if it can get in/out of there?

[RW20]

Nice to see the runway extension is starting to attracting new airlines!

[Pain in the R's]

Have I missed a post or is the claim that the runway extension has attracted a potential Twin Otter operation that could probably take off using just the runway extension?

[SWBKCB]

Given the views of the potential new operator, I'd be keeping quiet about pouring lots of new concrete.... :suspect:

[RW20]

Have I missed a post or is the claim that the runway extension has attracted a potential Twin Otter operation that could probably take off using just the runway extension?
Balkan Airways have announced 2024 holidays,disapponting SOU is not on the list. The airport was mentioned in recent blogs as a possible 2024 destination along with Southend who will be operating a service. With Southampton past service by Balkan and with the extension in place,surely a 2024 destination?

[stewyb]

It will be interesting to see if the airport can attract additional airlines apart from easyJet for S24

[GLCYZ]

My only negative, was that the BACF's all only had one set of boarding steps ISO two -
This meant no pax boarding until the refuelling was finished - that then caused boarding delays, and missed slots.
(We missed out slot into JMK and had to sit on the ramp for almost an hour)
I fed this back to the BA Crew (who had already noted this each weekend on their flight reports) and to the SOU's Ops Director and he said he was not aware of this.
But in his favour, he did say he would take it up with the Handling Agents as a matter of importance.

Do we have 2 sets of steps on the BACF's this summer?


Best R.

BACF doesn’t require a second set of steps during fuelling so long as slide deployment areas are clear of obstructions. A SOU rule, perhaps?

[LTNman]

It will be interesting to see if the airport can attract additional airlines apart from easyJet for S24

I wasn’t aware that Easyjet had announced a summer 24 program from Southampton. Did I miss something?

[SouthernAlliance]

I wasn’t aware that Easyjet had announced a summer 24 program from Southampton. Did I miss something?

Nothing announced but I would say it’s highly likely there will be some flying by them next summer

[RW20]

Nothing announced but I would say it’s highly likely there will be some flying by them next summer
This is based on assumption only,as time goes on Summer 2024 looks less likely,the airport needs new destinations ,however without a based LCC airline there are great limitations for expansion.

[SouthernAlliance]

This is based on assumption only,as time goes on Summer 2024 looks less likely,the airport needs new destinations ,however without a based LCC airline there are great limitations for expansion.

Don't easyJet announce new summer routes around Oct-Dec? Maybe there is still time

[rog747]

BACF doesn’t require a second set of steps during fuelling so long as slide deployment areas are clear of obstructions. A SOU rule, perhaps?

The crews on my SOU-JMK and PMI flights (both the Flight Deck and Cabin) told me they needed 2 sets to board pax during refuelling, so we had to stay crammed to the rafters on the Coach for 10-15 minutes, which was all rather unpleasant ---
and that has always been the case of having the need for 2 sets in my whole airport work career as Duty Officer at both LHR & LGW.

It is news to me that you can today board pax during refuelling with just one set of steps - as you say perhaps nowadays there are varying rules >?

From your nametag do you work for BACF at LCY>?

cheers R.

[ATNotts]

Don't easyJet announce new summer routes around Oct-Dec? Maybe there is still time
There is, but surely if any bucket and spade destinations were in the offing then they would have been put on sale with the Easyjet Holidays release a month or so ago?

[RW20]

There is, but surely if any bucket and spade destinations were in the offing then they would have been put on sale with the Easyjet Holidays release a month or so ago?
This is true,maybe the expansion down the road to sun route( where incidently Bournemouth reached 100,000 pax in May) has stopped any LCC from coming in.
Certainly BACF have further reduced there routes,SOU needs some announcement sooner then later.

[Pain in the R's]

So as it stands all easyjet services from Southampton end in March. I would have thought easyjet jet would have added something by now but there is still plenty of time.

[SouthernAlliance]

This is true,maybe the expansion down the road to sun route( where incidently Bournemouth reached 100,000 pax in May) has stopped any LCC from coming in.
Certainly BACF have further reduced their routes,SOU needs some announcement sooner then later.

It will also be interesting to see what impact any summer services to the sun from SOU would have on passenger numbers at BOH. Wasn’t this one of the main reasons why BOH put in a rejection to the extension application?

[SouthernAlliance]

Seems Eastern has removed MAN from sale, how long before the ORY route does the same?

[rog747]

Seems Eastern has removed MAN from sale, how long before the ORY route does the same?


Oh great, I was just about to plan and book SOU-MAN-SOU flights to visit an old pal in Liverpool !
UGH!
Nothing flying from EXT, nor from BOH to MAN either :(

But I can fly from SOU to MAN via AMS on KLM, via GCI on Aurigny, or even on AER LINGUS via DUB!!
:P with good connections too

[stewyb]

Oh great, I was just about to plan and book SOU-MAN-SOU flights to visit an old pal in Liverpool !
UGH!
Nothing flying from EXT, nor from BOH to MAN either :(

But I can fly from SOU to MAN via AMS on KLM, via GCI on Aurigny, or even on AER LINGUS via DUB!!
:P with good connections too

Incredible to think this route was for many years the airports busiest with over 200k pax per annum. Loganair have applied for slots so this may be the reason for Eastern’s departure!

[GLCYZ]

The crews on my SOU-JMK and PMI flights (both the Flight Deck and Cabin) told me they needed 2 sets to board pax during refuelling, so we had to stay crammed to the rafters on the Coach for 10-15 minutes, which was all rather unpleasant ---
and that has always been the case of having the need for 2 sets in my whole airport work career as Duty Officer at both LHR & LGW.

It is news to me that you can today board pax during refuelling with just one set of steps - as you say perhaps nowadays there are varying rules >?

From your nametag do you work for BACF at LCY>?

cheers R.

Next time tell the crew to read their Company Ops Manual OMA section 8.2.1.1.2 which states "It is acceptable to use a single set of stairs as long as the other main doors meet the above criteria" (ie. ground beneath exits and slide deployment areas free from obstructions).

[rog747]

Next time tell the crew to read their Company Ops Manual OMA section 8.2.1.1.2 which states "It is acceptable to use a single set of stairs as long as the other main doors meet the above criteria" (ie. ground beneath exits and slide deployment areas free from obstructions).

Thanks for the BACF update, I think the issue here at SOU was that the baggage was still being loaded, and the large Bowser was likely blocking some areas too....stuff was all over the place front and back, so perhaps they were not happy?

[RW20]

Update from Runway extension Contractors ,all is on time to finish by 17/08,subject to weather!
Lets hope for some airline announcements very soon!

​​

[stewyb]

Update from Runway extension Contractors ,all is on time to finish by 17/08,subject to weather!
Lets hope for some airline announcements very soon!

​​

Beneficial use of extension very soon, you may have latest info on dates!

[Sotonsean]

There has been no further updates on the airport's runway extension APP since the 11 July. Hopefully your correct with your assumption that the runway extension is scheduled for completion by the date you have quoted. Hopefully the APP will be updated this week with some more recent drone images of the extension.

[RW20]

There has been no further updates on the airport's runway extension APP since the 11 July. Hopefully your correct with your assumption that the runway extension is scheduled for completion by the date you have quoted. Hopefully the APP will be updated this week with some more recent drone images of the extension.
No assumption,message from contractor projects manager!

[stewyb]

Update from Runway extension Contractors ,all is on time to finish by 17/08,subject to weather!
Lets hope for some airline announcements very soon!

​​

With regards to routes and airlines RW20, keen to hear your thoughts?

[TCAS FAN]

There has been no further updates on the airport's runway extension APP since the 11 July. Hopefully your correct with your assumption that the runway extension is scheduled for completion by the date you have quoted. Hopefully the APP will be updated this week with some more recent drone images of the extension.

Understood that most of the asphalt has been laid and, subject to weather, may be completed this week. Assume that it is then going to be grooved.

New runway markings to be applied to the extension, hopefully quickly followed by the airport’s surveyors visiting to verify (for CAA’s benefit) the new runway length + declared distances.

New lighting to be installed on the extension, set up and then flight checked?

Assume surface friction characteristics of new asphalt will need verification?

That all done and paperwork submitted to CAA by mid August, IMHO early/mid September for the NOTAM detailing the new runway dimensions + declared distances to appear to signify that the CAA have signed off the project.

[stewyb]

TCAS FAN - ties in perfectly with official opening date of 21st Sept (tbc), until then the extension will have beneficial use only

[Pain in the R's]

And then what? I am guessing the big wait and then frustration with the lack of business.

[Sotonsean]

With regards to routes and airlines RW20, keen to hear your thoughts?

With all due respect haven't we gone over this question over and over again and on so many occasions. And there's me thinking that you had put a stop to it.

Come on now stewyb surely your better than that.

[Pain in the R's]

How many return flights a day and new routes that actually need the runway extension would the good people here find as an acceptable number and were would the threshold be that triggers disappointment?

I am assuming easyJet’s temporary domestic routes don’t count, as they could have operated anyway without the runway extension.

[RW20]

I dont see a lot coming for 2024,as I believe they would have been announced by now. SOU biggest problem is there operational hours,so no based LCC planes!
I think the Canaries could be a bet for the future.

[stewyb]

With all due respect haven't we gone over this question over and over again and on so many occasions. And there's me thinking that you had put a stop to it.

Come on now stewyb surely your better than that.

May have been said tongue in cheek as RW20 seems to think none/very little growth will happen in S24! :ok:

[SKOJB]

about time the airport announced new routes. So disappointed the runway is almost complete and nothing has been added with airlines or destinations. If they want to add passengers and compete with BOH they have to sort it out and announce something quick, or else it’s the same old boring domestics and once weekly sun routes

[LTNman]

You’re blaming the airport yet it is the airlines that set the agenda. Maybe they are just not interested?

Southampton made a speculative investment with no agreements signed for new routes before work commenced. They hope that once finished that will change.

[RW20]

You’re blaming the airport yet it is the airlines that set the agenda. Maybe they are just not interested?

Southampton made a speculative investment with no agreements signed for new routes before work commenced. They hope that once finished that will change.
The question is " What happens to the airport if nothing materialises"?
​​​​​​

[SWBKCB]

Southampton made a speculative investment with no agreements signed for new routes before work commenced.

Presumably this is your opinion, rather than a staetment of fact like it appears? Just because nothing has been announced, doesn't mean nothing has been agreed.

Does the previous performance of SOU's owners suggest they are the type to make speculative investments on the off chance?

[ATNotts]

You’re blaming the airport yet it is the airlines that set the agenda. Maybe they are just not interested?

Southampton made a speculative investment with no agreements signed for new routes before work commenced. They hope that once finished that will change.
No airport ever extended their runway or doubled the size of their terminal on 'a promise' from an airline to use it.

Its an investment for the long-term and if there is negligible benefit in year one (2023/4) I would imagine the marketing goal is summer 2025 onwards.

[SouthernAlliance]

No airport ever extended their runway or doubled the size of their terminal on 'a promise' from an airline to use it.

Its an investment for the long-term and if there is negligible benefit in year one (2023/4) I would imagine the marketing goal is summer 2025 onwards.

Didn’t SEN announce a multi year partnership with EZY a few months prior to the extension being opened and in time for London2012?

[ATNotts]

Didn’t SEN announce a multi year partnership with EZY a few months prior to the extension being opened and in time for London2012?
To be honest I don't know how the flow chart ran, but if the investment came 'on a promise' so to speak, the outcome was a perfunctory lesson in how not to invest.

Of course at DSA it was done the other way round (infrastructure then business) and ultimately that didn't turn out well.

[LTNman]

Does the previous performance of SOU's owners suggest they are the type to make speculative investments on the off chance?

I have no idea but I suspect they have. I know Luton has done it. Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn’t. Sometime it appears to be paying off and then still ends in tears. Only time will tell.

[willy wombat]

Personally I think a point that is being missed in this debate is how much capacity EZY has to expand at SOU at the moment. For S24 their priority for the South East must be to maximise LGW slots. I appreciate that due to opening hours, any loco operations at SOU are like to be by aircraft based overseas but if I was running EZY and had a slot pair at LGW and the choice between using them (or losing them) vs operating a rotation into SOU it would be a no brainer.

[GayFriendly]

And how many aircraft they have. Remember, 3 have been allocated for the new BHX base opening March 2024.

I would wager that an EZY base will not happen in 2024 but that away based flying by EZY will, which is how they built up BHX into a base (admittedly over a very long time). They don't normally release their flight only summer schedules until mid Autumn so there's plenty of time for some away based routes to be announced for SOU.

[LTNman]

Why Easyjet are unlikely to ever base any aircraft at Southampton

Southampton

Flights operate between the following times Monday to Friday 06:30 - 22:30, Saturday 06:30 - 22:15 and Sunday 07:30 - 22:30.


Southend

Whilst passenger flights may only be scheduled between 06:30 – 23:00 (a limited number between 23:00 – 23:30) delayed aircraft may still operate back to Southend during the night-time period.
​​​​​​​

How long before the airport asks for an extension to operating hours?

[ATNotts]

LTNMan,
You'll be branded as a 'troll' by some, but given that straight jacket you're probably spot on.

You can see any application, even just for a minor extension of operating hours or a little latitude taking months, more likely years, to go through the planning process.

[stewyb]

And how many aircraft they have. Remember, 3 have been allocated for the new BHX base opening March 2024.

I would wager that an EZY base will not happen in 2024 but that away based flying by EZY will, which is how they built up BHX into a base (admittedly over a very long time). They don't normally release their flight only summer schedules until mid Autumn so there's plenty of time for some away based routes to be announced for SOU.

Glad you posted this and not me as I would have been shot down immediately. You are however spot on with your assessment of the situation!

[vectisman]

Actually EasyJet are feeling a little constrained at Gatwick at the moment. 80 plus aircraft is proving tough to accom and operate especially as they tend to have two intense departure waves a day. Also any slots they still have leased from BA will need to be returned. So not impossible they may be looking elsewhere. Surely even overseas originating flights are a good thing. It doesn’t need to be a base.

[vectisman]

On a personal level I am hoping that Loganair do indeed start Manchester to Southampton in the coming months.

[LTNman]

You'll be branded as a 'troll' by some, but given that straight jacket you're probably spot on

The troll accusations only come from those that want to close their ears to reality, as it doesn’t fit their narrative.

[Albert Hall]

For Summer 2024, it is likely that easyJet's Gatwick operation will be probably 10-15% smaller as the slots they leased are due to be returned to BA. For BA, that has been a shrewd move and for easyJet it has resulted in overcapacity, operational stress and has enabled a sworn rival to mark time and re-enter a stronger market without losses in the meantime to hold its slots. The issue that both of them were apparently worried about - Wizz establishing a meaningful foothold in Gatwick - looks to have been a damp squib partly because Wizz has needed no help to fail.

The next issue is that three of those aircraft coming out of Gatwick are headed to Birmingham for the new base there and ten others are unexpectedly going back to their owners who can make more money leasing the engines out to India.

The new base at Birmingham should mean that some capacity from easyJet's Spanish bases serving Birmingham today is available to shift elsewhere, with Southampton very likely to be a beneficiary for the likes of PMI, AGP, FAO etc. Timing of announcement? Who knows....but I'm strongly led to believe one is coming.

[stewyb]

For Summer 2024, it is likely that easyJet's Gatwick operation will be probably 10-15% smaller as the slots they leased are due to be returned to BA. For BA, that has been a shrewd move and for easyJet it has resulted in overcapacity, operational stress and has enabled a sworn rival to mark time and re-enter a stronger market without losses in the meantime to hold its slots. The issue that both of them were apparently worried about - Wizz establishing a meaningful foothold in Gatwick - looks to have been a damp squib partly because Wizz has needed no help to fail.

The next issue is that three of those aircraft coming out of Gatwick are headed to Birmingham for the new base there and ten others are unexpectedly going back to their owners who can make more money leasing the engines out to India.

The new base at Birmingham should mean that some capacity from easyJet's Spanish bases serving Birmingham today is available to shift elsewhere, with Southampton very likely to be a beneficiary for the likes of PMI, AGP, FAO etc. Timing of announcement? Who knows....but I'm strongly led to believe one is coming.

PMI, AGP, FAO, ALC all incoming although unsure of announcement timing and presume December

[TCAS FAN]

………….

The new base at Birmingham should mean that some capacity from easyJet's Spanish bases serving Birmingham today is available to shift elsewhere, with Southampton very likely to be a beneficiary for the likes of PMI, AGP, FAO etc. Timing of announcement? Who knows....but I'm strongly led to believe one is coming.

Timing, at the formal opening ceremony for the runway extension?

[stewyb]

Timing, at the formal opening ceremony for the runway extension?

Not that I am aware of, they do however have other surprises lined up

[Sotonsean]

Not that I am aware of, they do however have other surprises lined up

Without coming across as being pessimistic but where do you get your supposedly inside information from?

You seem insistent on the fact that easyJet are going to announce sun routes to Southampton for summer 2024.

I'm under the impression that you know no more than anyone else on this forum regarding the topic.

Along with the rest of us I want to see easyJet announce sun routes to Southampton for summer 2024 along with the hope that other airlines and routes might appear. But I'm personally not building my hopes up until the day that I finally read an official statement confirming it.

All this "yes they will, I'm waiting for the confirmation, that's what I've heard, fit's into the plans, etc" is really getting a bit tedious to be honest.

I know this is a public forum and a place to discuss Southampton Airport but really let's just bide our time and wait for any official statement to confirm otherwise. Throughout my life I've always been a believer in not getting over excited about something until it actually happens. I've never been interested in conspiracies or fact less rumours, I believe in the truth, I don't like to be let down. Until easyJet makes any official statement I'm regarding all this as just wishful thinking.


​​​​​

[GayFriendly]

EZY do not currently serve AGP or ALC from BHX so any future flights to/from SOU would have to be fitted in existing base schedules / aircraft availability

They do currently serve PMI and FAO although according to the schedules for BHX on the EZY Holidays website, not all flights to/from these airports next summer are BHX based aircraft,

This doesn't mean there will be no EZY sun flights from SOU next year but it's not as simple as the BHX base opening and aircraft therefore becoming free at PMI, AGP etc to operate to SOU.

[SWBKCB]

I follow this thread because I've always found SOU a conundrum - good transport links, affluent catchment area but struggles to attract airlines to serve routes that look like winners. We are told that MAN is a good route, Eastern operate it intermittently. Paris is a good route but Eastern operate it as a slot sitter. EZY pile in on GVA during the winter but haven't committed to anything else. The Channel Islands operate consistently as do the Scottish routes and NCL. Maybe the current runway length is more of a constraint than we think - interesting times.

[Asturias56]

I've always though the catchment is the problem - you have three other airports within easy reach and two of them are monsters. Its very hard to differentiate SOU in such a position. If Cardiff struggles because of Bristol think how much worse the location of SOU is

[rog747]

I follow this thread because I've always found SOU a conundrum - good transport links, affluent catchment area but struggles to attract airlines to serve routes that look like winners. We are told that MAN is a good route, Eastern operate it intermittently. Paris is a good route but Eastern operate it as a slot sitter. EZY pile in on GVA during the winter but haven't committed to anything else. The Channel Islands operate consistently as do the Scottish routes and NCL. Maybe the current runway length is more of a constraint than we think - interesting times.

Great points, but SOU lost Flybe, and then Covid killed the cat.

SOU was very much a Businessman's ''go to'' airport - so as you say MAN, GLA, EDI, BFS, DUB were all once very busy, plus the KLM/AF Interline hubs at AMS and CDG.

The historical Channel Islands routes have been flown from SOU since BEA's Dragon Rapide days lol.
Long may they continue.

Businessman and many workers, now sit on their fat behinds and work from Home; costly Business Travel expenses are now frowned upon by their Accounts Departments.
It's now 'Zoom' this, and 'Teams' that (yuk)

As for SOU-Geneva and Easyjet --- This route flown in the peak ski-winter is a cash cow for them, with flights from BOH and now SEN too, for the cash rich Skiers.
The EZY GVA base and the aircraft is operated by Easyjet Switzerland.
A summer series could be attractive, as could Basel and Zurich too (all Easyjet Switzerland bases)

Any other EZY expansion at SOU will come from Easyjet Europe bases, such as PMI FAO and AGP etc.

The KLM AMS is now twice daily, and I am using it myself next month, flying VCE-AMS-SOU in Biz.

Eastern Airways have been playing games at SOU with MAN, & the ORY is a disaster.

I wanted to book MAN (I actually want to go to LPL) but MAN is now canned,
so I am flying SOU to LPL via JER (Blue Islands and EZY)
Or I can fly from EXT to LPL, via JER or even BFS, and I still get there quicker than taking the train or driving.

[cavokblues]

Has the demand for previous successful routes like SOU - MAN and Paris fallen because of COVID or because there hasn't been a competent airline on it or a mixture of both.

I can't believe how badly Eastern have done with some of the old Flybe routes from Southampton. I'm not expecting pre Covid style demand but surely they could get on average 60+ bums on seats on a morning and evening rotation?

[SWBKCB]

Two very SOU thread type responses! Do the cash rich skiers not want to fly anywhere else? Is the drop off in business demand the same elsewhere?

It's easy to blame Eastern, but if these routes are so good, why is nobody else interested?

[cavokblues]

Loganair apparently do want to operate Manchester, although a bit late to the party so seemingly way down their list of priorities.

IAG claiming their pax numbers are almost as they were pre pandemic but obviously behaviours have changed in the UK domestic market.

However, there is such a clear cost and time saving with flying over the train, that demand can't have evaporated entirely? We're talking about routes which used to serve 500k pax a year. There must be some market remaining- even if it's at 10-20% of pre covid numbers.

[rog747]

Two very SOU thread type responses! Do the cash rich skiers not want to fly anywhere else? Is the drop off in business demand the same elsewhere?

It's easy to blame Eastern, but if these routes are so good, why is nobody else interested?

LOL, yes cash rich skiers (mainly Consultant Surgeons in my experience lol) do go elsewhere - usually in the School Hols >> Xmas/NY Easter, and in Summer >> Nice Faro Bergerac Limoges Calvi Skiathos and Olbia are all popular for them ;)


and Cavokblues says:
Has the demand for previous successful routes like SOU - MAN and Paris fallen because of COVID or because there hasn't been a competent airline on it, or a mixture of both?

The latter.......

Seems nobody else is interested because we have now fewer UK domestic airlines that want to fly these routes, nor have the right aircraft for it.

Yes, EZY can fill an Airbus from JER to MAN BFS LTN LGW LPL etc, but they would not fill a twice daily MAN-SOU, or JER-SOU.

Ryanair as we all know, cannot operate in, or out of SOU - Had they could, then it's possible they would be here by now - not sure though that UK or Irish flights to/from SOU would work for them, as Ryanair at BOH now have only a few DUB and EDI flights - both are not daily and some are at crap times.
BUT its cheap as chips.
Tomorrow's BOH-EDI is sold out (189 seats)

[LTNman]

Ryanair as we all know, cannot operate in, or out of SOU
​​​​​​​
If Ryanair could operate from Southend then why not Southampton when the extension opens?

[MARKEYD]

This has been discussed so many times now the whole thread is fast becoming tedious to read
Round and round in circles…..

[cavokblues]

I know it's been stated before about the clearance still being prohibitive but 737-800s have operated commercially into Southampton before with Air Berlin and a few others.

If the new extension doesn't allow for 738 to Spain and southern France etc then an awful lot of eggs have been put in an orange coloured basket.

[Mr A Tis]

Whenever I have used the SOU-MAN on Eastern it has been at least 2/3rds full. However, the stop start Eastern schedule is hopeless. It is canned until at least October, but when I asked if they would actually operate it - they said they couldn't guarantee it. So, I've booked via LHR to get to SOU.
From 6 x Dash 8s a day to nothing. You can blame covid etc for the big reduction, but given that the trains are so slow, expensive & frequently on strike there was never a better time to get some reliability into the route & at least provide a day return schedule. Many of my booking on Eastern were cancelled late, so alternative options became expensive, so now, I wouldn't book at all. If only Loganair would take it on, I wouldn't hesitate in booking.

[adfly]

A good comparison is Southampton to Newcastle/Glasgow/Edinburgh, even if the latter do attract more leisure travel - by having a reliable carrier operating those routes they have built up to now match or exceed the Flybe frequencies from before they went bust. This is despite the drop off in demand for business travel, and on smaller aircraft with higher fares than before.

I hope that Loganair can find a way to operate Manchester, they are probably the only likely carrier with the right aircraft and operational reliability to do so. They also have quite a few partnerships with other airlines, which allows them to capture some connecting traffic via Manchester as well.

Having ridden the alternative CrossCountry train for about 1/3 of the route I can confirm that it is a truly dreadful experience - slow, horrifically overcrowded, understaffed and unreliable.

[rustythumb]

If Ryanair could operate from Southend then why not Southampton when the extension opens?
But why would they leave BOH? What incentive is there?

[SouthernAlliance]

But why would they leave BOH? What incentive is there?

Think this was meant from a purely operational/field performance perspective. The airport have said all along that the extension is for 320/738 ops so wouldn't rule 738 out completely, albeit unlikely to be RYR!

[RW20]

Think this was meant from a purely operational/field performance perspective. The airport have said all along that the extension is for 320/738 ops so wouldn't rule 738 out completely, albeit unlikely to be RYR!
Its not just the runway extension that matters,its the obstacles on 20 climb out including Marhill copse,has anything changed there?

[The Nutts Mutts]

Its not just the runway extension that matters,its the obstacles on 20 climb out including Marhill copse,has anything changed there?

THIS is the pertinent issue that an extra 137m on the end of runway 20 sadly won't solve. SOU is hugely performance limited on that runway due to these trees, and unless the airport can figure out a way around this issue (as the council keep rejecting their woodland management applications), the problem will only get worse as the trees continue to grow.
The runway extension will help a little bit on its own, but I don't think it's enough to suddenly open SOU up to commercially-viable summer jet operations without the obstacle environment changing significantly.
At the moment runway 02 is often requested by the current operators for performance reasons whenever they're heavily loaded due to it's less-restrictive obstacle environment.

[SouthernAlliance]

Marlhill Woods continues to be an issue for the airport and something they will need to remedy in the near future for improved operations, however an A320 to the Med region I don’t see as a problem once the extended runway is open as they can lift off from a fairly short runway length in most conditions, but 738 is a different beast and most likely not possible!

[commit aviation]

ICAO did issue a state letter recently with proposals to update the Obstacle Limitation Surface parameters but it will be a few years until that happens.
The revised surfaces are designed to take current aircraft performance into account. I wonder if that will help the cause for SOU?

[LTNman]

I get the impression that SOU management thought those pesky trees would be cut down without any issues, which isn’t going to happen, so removing some of the benefits of the runway extension.

Those who fought and lost the battle to stop the runway extension will now put their efforts into making sure those trees are not touched to limit the impact of the runway extension. With preservation orders served on some of those trees they are off to a good start.

[rog747]

I get the impression that SOU management thought those pesky trees would be cut down without any issues, which isn’t going to happen, so removing some of the benefits of the runway extension.
Those who fought and lost the battle to stop the runway extension will now put their efforts into making sure those trees are not touched to limit the impact of the runway extension. With preservation orders served on some of those trees they are off to a good start.

Yes, Pesky Trees indeed....

TCASman is the 'Go To' chap for the Runway obstacle and clearway operational issues for SOU, for both Pre and Post runway extension.

I am no Naysayer, I love using SOU and follow its progress closely.
But,
As someone above quite rightly pointed out in their quote ''An awful lot of eggs have been put in an orange coloured basket'' does make for a good and debatable question.

Re the 737-800NG operations - Let us please get this misnomer correct,
SOU Directors have never said that the Runway Extension was suitable for Ops in/out of SOU with this type.
The Management stated clearly when announcing that the runway works were to go-ahead, that the Extension was to provide 'Existing aircraft types' to be able to fly to destinations further afield with a commercial payload.

Another fellow Poster quoted:
''however an A320 to the Med region, I don’t see as a problem once the extended runway is open as they can lift off from a fairly short runway length in most conditions, but 738 is a different beast and most likely not possible!''

Yes,
but even the EZY GVA and the Volotea PMI has faced Payload restrictions in the past - Albeit this was IIRC, due to the lower powered performance of the A319.

We know and hope that BACF is 'safe' for Summer 24, but this is a seasonal 'weekend only' operation, with TUI Holidays adding 2 more BACF PMI charter rotations in addition to the scheduled BA flights, plus the BACF winter weekend Ski flights to CMF & SZG.

We also see a new small Domestic series from EZY starting this Autumn.

​​​​​​​Apart from those, there is no other input so far, for more Airlines and services flying from SOU.

[TCAS FAN]

ICAO did issue a state letter recently with proposals to update the Obstacle Limitation Surface parameters but it will be a few years until that happens.
The revised surfaces are designed to take current aircraft performance into account. I wonder if that will help the cause for SOU?

Would be grateful if you could provide a link to the State Letter. Have my doubts that it will have any positive impact.

An earlier change to OLS in Annex 14 did benefit SOU due to the reduction of runway strip width from 150 to 140 metres, which improved the obstacle limitations beneath the 1:7 Transitional Surface. This resulted in larger aircraft being able to park nose in Stands 7-12.

[RW20]

In the past SOU thrived only on flybe presence,we all know how that eventually played out!
​​​​​Easy could come in with some routes,but like SEN could withdraw them just as quick!
Without Orange,what other airline could fufill the limited field options even with the extension at SOU?

[cavokblues]

Vueling might offer something to a few Spanish destinations.

[SKOJB]

Wizz, Volotea, Jet2, TUI could all be options if they can satisfy themselves of the new runway/obstacle performance data. I don’t buy this argument that regular 738 services will never operate from the airfield although time will tell. I would still place a cheeky bet on EXS planning something down the line but that’s just my opinion before posters get on my back!

[rog747]

Wizz, Volotea, Jet2, TUI could all be options if they can satisfy themselves of the new runway/obstacle performance data. I don’t buy this argument that regular 738 services will never operate from the airfield although time will tell.
I would still place a cheeky bet on EXS planning something down the line but that’s just my opinion before posters get on my back!

Well LOL, getting right on your literlal back, although this 737NG issue is now getting all rather tedious, I can assure you that it ain't gonna happen even in this decade...
Unless you want to propose on your bended knee to TUI, Jet2, and Ryanair to operate very payload restricted flights.
Or, by all means do go-ahead and get yourself a few secondhand examples and do try it...
Come back to us on that one :8;) (very broke):ouch:

Jet2 will have new A320Neos, but not for a long time, until the first orders arrive in 2028, so all bets on them are off for a while.

Vueling IMO are pretty awful, the Ryanair or Spirit Airlines of Spain, and they are frankly dire, as are Wizz too -
Their reputations go before them, and I cannot see the SOU catchment grabbing them at all...These airlines go into airports and are 'here today', and 'gone tomorrow'.

[SKOJB]

Well LOL, getting right on your literlal back, although this 737NG issue is now getting all rather tedious, I can assure you that it ain't gonna happen even in this decade...
Unless you want to propose on your bended knee to TUI, Jet2, and Ryanair to operate very payload restricted flights.
Or, by all means do go-ahead and get yourself a few secondhand examples and do try it...
Come back to us on that one :8;) (very broke):ouch:

Jet2 will have new A320Neos, but not for a long time, until the first orders arrive in 2028, so all bets on them are off for a while.

Vueling IMO are pretty awful, the Ryanair or Spirit Airlines of Spain, and they are frankly dire, as are Wizz too -
Their reputations go before them, and I cannot see the SOU catchment grabbing them at all...These airlines go into airports and are 'here today', and 'gone tomorrow'.

Wow, don’t we know it all and thanks for the arrogant reply. Please remember your thoughts and believes may not be the same as the next person!

[rog747]

Wow, don’t we know it all and thanks for the arrogant reply. Please remember your thoughts and believes may not be the same as the next person!

No, YOU bit LOL Didn't you see the smiley emojis ...:) >?

Chill up darling, lighten up a little, its Pprune, and it's Southampton wink ;);) pour a nice G&T, and it's all good.

It was all 'tongue in'' as they say - sorry u got a tad offended

[ATNotts]

Wow, don’t we know it all and thanks for the arrogant reply. Please remember your thoughts and believes may not be the same as the next person!
I would venture to suggest that given the professional experience of @rog747 as he has made it public on this forum, while nobody 'knows it all' he is one of the more qualified voices on UK commercial aviation who posts here!

[055166k]

I can fly to Amsterdam and back and the fare is cheaper than the car park. By the way the air fare itself is made up of several airport rip-off charges....the airline gets a fraction of the ticket cost. Can't even save a few quid by using the never-available long term car park. Does this airport have a death wish???????

[RW20]

Please no more bad news for SOU,lets have some route announcements

[adfly]

This isn't the grand headline people are hoping for but the following airlines have S24 flights on sale at the moment from Southampton already. Good to see Loganair maintaining higher frequencies, and let's remember that they have previously publicly stated that the runway extension will benefit their E145 operations.

Are Lingus/Emerald

Belfast - ~2 daily
Dublin - ~2 daily

BA Cityflyer

Looks similar to S23 - Alicante/Bergerac/Faro/Limoges/Palma/Malaga 1-2 weekly
​​​​​​
Blue Islands

Jersey - 3 daily

KLM Cityhopper

Amsterdam - 2 daily

Loganair

Edinburgh - ~5 daily
Glasgow - ~5 daily
Newcastle - ~3 daily

TUI

Palma - 2 weekly (BA Cityflyer)

[rog747]

This isn't the grand headline people are hoping for but the following airlines have S24 flights on sale at the moment from Southampton already. Good to see Loganair maintaining higher frequencies.
Blue Islands
Jersey - 3 daily


Many thanks for taking the trouble to note S24's plans for SOU, just wondered about both Blue Islands and Aurigny to GCI Guernsey (and Aurigny to Alderney) are set to continue ?

EZY are on sale for their BFS and GLA flights until the end of March.
Aer Lingus operate to Belfast City.

ATNotts - Thank you for your kind repose - I hope not to come over as a ''know it all'', yes at times it could be seen as that by some, but not my intention, but only to share life work experiences here, and perhaps offer some 'local' knowledge too.

[LTNman]

This isn't the grand headline people are hoping for but the following airlines have S24 flights on sale at the moment from Southampton already. Good to see Loganair maintaining higher frequencies, and let's remember that they have previously publicly stated that the runway extension will benefit their E145 operations.

Are Lingus/Emerald
Belfast - ~2 daily
Dublin - ~2 daily
BA Cityflyer
Looks similar to S23 - Alicante/Bergerac/Faro/Limoges/Palma/Malaga 1-2 weekly
​​​​​​Blue Islands
Jersey - 3 daily
KLM Cityhopper
Amsterdam - 2 daily
Loganair
Edinburgh - ~5 daily
Glasgow - ~5 daily
Newcastle - ~3 daily
TUI
Palma - 2 weekly (BA Cityflyer)

Noted that not a single route listed needs that runway extension.

[rog747]

Noted that not a single route listed needs that runway extension.

Indeed, and that is a 'given' I'm afraid for now;

A lot can happen in the next two Quarters -
Much depends on the Economy, Inflation figures and the next Election (plus World events)
I have no wish to pontificate on Politics here with regard to a local Airport's expansion, but IMO some of it is all relevant to any analysis by the Airlines and the Travel Industry,
and also that of the Customer demand too, whether that be the Businessman model, or of the Leisure Traveller.

[SouthernAlliance]

There was a posting on LinkedIn recently from a member of the airport management stating that they hope to have new route announcements before year end

[LTNman]

Sound like they share the same PR guy as Southend. Promises much and delivers little.

Southampton will have its day, it’s just a matter of being patient.

[vectisman]

LTNman if you ever make even a slightly positive comment most of us will probably suffer severe shock ! :ooh:

[vectisman]

Hopefully Loganair will start Southampton to Manchester by Summer 2024 if not sooner.

[adfly]

Noted that not a single route listed needs that runway extension.
I've pointed out in the very same post you've quoted that Loganair have publicly stated that the extension will benefit their current operations...
​​​​​https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/18288523.southampton-airport-bright-future-says-loganair-chief-executive/

The routes don't 'need' the extension to operate, but if it allows less passengers and bags to be left behind in more extreme weather conditions then Loganair, their passengers and the airport will all benefit from it.

[SKOJB]

Hopefully Loganair will start Southampton to Manchester by Summer 2024 if not sooner.

Thought I read somewhere that they were looking to introduce this route from Feb 24

[RW20]

Runway construction now finished,and groved,as per latest info fron the construction management!
Lighting and markings to follow,CAA approval to follow hopefully Very soon. Then fingers crossed for announcements on airlines from a very quite Airport management!

[SouthernAlliance]

Runway construction now finished,and groved,as per latest info fron the construction management!
Lighting and markings to follow,CAA approval to follow hopefully Very soon. Then fingers crossed for announcements on airlines from a very qui myAirport management!

The latest pictures on the airport app are those of the existing runway and not the extension, just an observation!

[TCAS FAN]

Runway construction now finished,and groved,as per latest info fron the construction management!
Lighting and markings to follow,CAA approval to follow hopefully Very soon. Then fingers crossed for announcements on airlines from a very quieAirport management!

Any CAA approval will need the runway markings applied. Until this is done the airport’s surveyors cannot verify the new dimensions/declared distances. Once they have done this the aerodrome Survey Report will need updating, together with a new 1:2500 scale Aerodrome Plan.

Once these are completed the updated package needs signing off by AGS before the surveyors file it with NATS AIM, who will check data for QA compliance.

Can anyone ascertain if the lighting changes have been completed and successfully flight checked?

In line with CAP 791 CAA will want to see a totally “Completed” document to provide evidence that everything that was promised, and they accepted, has been achieved.

CAA sign off probably still a few weeks away.

[TCAS FAN]

The latest pictures on the airport app are those of the existing runway and not the extension, just an observation!

Picture 2 of the 1 August series definitely the existing runway surface as the RWY 20 displaced threshold markings clearly visible. That said the pre-threshold paved surface of the original runway may not have been already grooved.

[LTNman]

Regarding the approach lighting to runway 20. Will there be any left seeing the runway extension now borders the railway sidings or has it been extended over the railway lines so maintaining the existing runway visual range minimum limits?

[SouthernAlliance]

Regarding the approach lighting to runway 20. Will there be any left seeing the runway extension now borders the railway sidings or has it been extended over the railway lines so maintaining the existing runway visual range minimum limits?

nothing changes accept final cross bar and centre line lighting will be sunk in to extension runway surface with threshold remaining as is

[LTNman]

Didn’t think of that option. Thanks

[stewyb]

BACF has added a short winter program to Bergerac x 1 weekly (Sat) in Dec/Jan utilising the Chambery airframe. Salzburg service seems to only be operating 10/02-17/02

[SKOJB]

You would think loads must be very low if Eastern are now offering kids go free with a paying adult on ORY. Also no dates on sale after 28/10 so assume route is being canned

[RW20]

You would think loads must be very low if Eastern are now offering kids go free with a paying adult on ORY. Also no dates on sale after 28/10 so assume route is being canned
​​​​Doomed to failure with Eastern performance.
Cant see this route operating in the new future ,no airline to take it on!

[SKOJB]

After a near on 6 hour delay last week, Eastern yet again delayed this morning by over 7 hours, desperate times!

[Albert Hall]

The aircraft left SOU this morning to do a charter between Edinburgh and Dublin. It'll go to Orly when it gets back from that merry jaunt. Tells you all you need to know about their priorities of scheduled v charter.

[Flitefone]

The aircraft left SOU this morning to do a charter between Edinburgh and Dublin. It'll go to Orly when it gets back from that merry jaunt. Tells you all you need to know about their priorities of scheduled v charter.

Eastern are operating a 3xdaily Newquay Gatwick service, its regularity and punctuality compares well with other airlines.

The Paris routes for some reason are a different story.

FF

[SKOJB]

Eastern are operating a 3xdaily Newquay Gatwick service, its regularity and punctuality compares well with other airlines.

The Paris routes for some reason are a different story.

FF

Newquay is a PSO route and likely to be financially lucrative for them, hence prioritisation

[TCAS FAN]

From what is now indicated on the contractor's app (8 Aug) the remaining inset approach/centreline lights should connected shortly, just an airborne flight check to do? Keep a look out for an evening visit by a Diamond Twin Star or other twin flying a number of approaches to RWY 20. That signed off paint markings to go down, weather permitting could be completed in one night.

Hopefully the airport's surveyors on standby for next week. The limited task necessary should be comfortably possible with a few hours work, day or two to wrap up the survey data, rubber stamping by SOU and then emailed to NATS AIM for verification.

Looks as if the contractors will be completed by or before the 18th, just a wait for SOU to wrap up the CAA "Completion" paperwork, then a wait for the CAA to sign it off.

As AGS will have paid mega bucks for the CAA's project involvement, they can reasonably expect that CAA will not drag their heels.

Nice to see a project come together as it should, on time, and hopefully on budget?

[stewyb]

How exciting (it is anyway for SOU supporters) that after many years of rumour, talk and disappointment, the runway extension is finally coming to fruition next week. Regardless of what negative comments certain posters have to say, this will be a positive for the airport and the local area and will certainly enhance the prospects of enticing future airlines and routes. Congrats to all concerned with this project and fingers crossed for a strong future!

[TCAS FAN]

How exciting (it is anyway for SOU supporters) that after many years of rumour, talk and disappointment, the runway extension is finally coming to fruition next week. Regardless of what negative comments certain posters have to say, this will be a positive for the airport and the local area and will certainly enhance the prospects of enticing future airlines and routes. Congrats to all concerned with this project and fingers crossed for a strong future!

in respect of the negative comments, maybe an airport just up the M1 from London could learn a lesson or two about project management?

[Asturias56]

How exciting (it is anyway for SOU supporters) that after many years of rumour, talk and disappointment, the runway extension is finally coming to fruition next week. Regardless of what negative comments certain posters have to say, this will be a positive for the airport and the local area and will certainly enhance the prospects of enticing future airlines and routes. Congrats to all concerned with this project and fingers crossed for a strong future!

Who is going to cut the ribbon and open it?

Hop[efully soem major Media person........... Ant or Dec maybe

[LTNman]

in respect of the negative comments, maybe an airport just up the M1 from London could learn a lesson or two about project management?

Absolutely. Progects are always finished late and substantially over budget.

[TCAS FAN]

Who is going to cut the ribbon and open it?

Hop[efully soem major Media person........... Ant or Dec maybe

On their contrary, surely someone who has devoted his whole working life to SOU deserves it more than some celebrity. Hope AGS resist the temptation to invite, and pay, for a celebrity who has no interest, apart from the fee, in the airport.

My nomination appears in an earlier post.

[stewyb]

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11481985]On their contrary, surely someone who has devoted his whole working life to SOU deserves it more than some celebrity. Hope AGS resist the temptation to invite, and pay, for a celebrity who has no interest, apart from the fee, in the airport.

My nomination appears in an earlier post.[/QUOT

Remind me of post number please

[LTNman]

It’s not like opening a new bridge. Hi Viz jackets, passports, paperwork for each invite and temporary passes required and visible if done properly with the runway closed via a NOTAM. I suspect they won’t bother, as it is an active runway and not a park bench that is being dedicated.

[RW20]

From what is now indicated on the contractor's app (8 Aug) the remaining inset approach/centreline lights should connected shortly, just an airborne flight check to do? Keep a look out for an evening visit by a Diamond Twin Star or other twin flying a number of approaches to RWY 20. That signed off paint markings to go down, weather permitting could be completed in one night.

Hopefully the airport's surveyors on standby for next week. The limited task necessary should be comfortably possible with a few hours work, day or two to wrap up the survey data, rubber stamping by SOU and then emailed to NATS AIM for verification.

Looks as if the contractors will be completed by or before the 18th, just a wait for SOU to wrap up the CAA "Completion" paperwork, then a wait for the CAA to sign it off.

As AGS will have paid mega bucks for the CAA's project involvement, they can reasonably expect that CAA will not drag their heels.

Nice to see a project come together as it should, on time, and hopefully on budget?
There being tested today,according to the project manager email to me.

[TCAS FAN]

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11481985]On their contrary, surely someone who has devoted his whole working life to SOU deserves it more than some celebrity. Hope AGS resist the temptation to invite, and pay, for a celebrity who has no interest, apart from the fee, in the airport.

My nomination appears in an earlier post.[/QUOT

Remind me of post number please

It’s 1597.

[Asturias56]

It’s not like opening a new bridge. Hi Viz jackets, passports, paperwork for each invite and temporary passes required and visible if done properly with the runway closed via a NOTAM. I suspect they won’t bother, as it is an active runway and not a park bench that is being dedicated.

Oh they don't have actually go out on to the runway! No - a simple photo opportunity in front of a parked aircraft (so the public will realise its about air travel), a smiling celeb (pref attractive) and an open bar for the hacks as close as possible to the photo shoot. This is PR not aeronautics

[SWBKCB]

Are there any celebrities associated with Southampton? My brain won't get past Matthew Le Tissier

[davidjohnson6]

Are there any celebrities associated with Southampton? My brain won't get past Matthew Le Tissier
Rishi Sunak, current UK Prime Minister - born in and grew up in Southampton

[LTNman]

I will do it, as I passed through Southampton docks in June, and visited the airport terminal maybe 30 years ago, so I have a long association with Southampton. Maybe they can cement a plaque to the runway?

[Asturias56]

perhaps inter you alive as a human sacrifice for good luck?

[Commanche 250]

perhaps inter you alive as a human sacrifice for good luck?

:D:D:D

[Rivet Joint]

perhaps inter you alive as a human sacrifice for good luck?

If only! One way to deal with a pest.

Truly great news that a runway extension is almost a reality after all these years. Credit to the airport for their perseverance.

[LTNman]

Shame about the trees though. More perseverance needed.

[TCAS FAN]

Anyone know why TWY A north of Hangar 1 has, and still is to end of September, NOTAMed as temporarily part of the Northern Apron? Aircraft parking?

[stewyb]

Anyone know why TWY A north of Hangar 1 has, and still is to end of September, NOTAMed as temporarily part of the Northern Apron? Aircraft parking?

I had heard this taxiway is now downgraded and was being used as an apron for Signature/Jetworks, for how long not sure but guess it could become permanent

[TCAS FAN]

I had heard this taxiway is now downgraded and was being used as an apron for Signature/Jetworks, for how long not sure but guess it could become permanent

If it’s long term hopefully only unti the TWY A missing link is built.

Presumably Stand 13 / 14 not currently needed by AGS?

[stewyb]

If it’s long term hopefully only unti the TWY A missing link is built.

Presumably Stand 13 / 14 not currently needed by AGS?

stands 13/14 has only been used in recent times for charter/biz. No knowledge but I think any taxiway link to 20 in the future will now come from main intersection up the north east side

[TCAS FAN]

stand 13/14 has only been used in recent times for charter/biz jet. No knowledge but I think any taxiway link to 20 in the future will now come from main intersection up the north east side

Presumably you mean from TWY B intersection? If so certainly the costly option which will only benefit RWY 20 runway movement rates.

By far the cheaper, and the most operationally beneficial option for both runways would be the northern TWY A connection.

[stewyb]

Presumably you mean from TWY B intersection? If so certainly the costly option which will only benefit RWY 20 runway movement rates.

By far the cheaper, and the most operationally beneficial option for both runways would be the northern TWY A connection.

Yes TWY B and agreed that it will be costly, however if the Freeport is developed in the NE corner then this may be an option with more apron/hangar space on that side. As I have mentioned previous and also drafted on the airport master plan, the easiest and quickest way would be a piece of tarmac out from stand 14 to runway, albeit there would still be a backtrack to 20!

[TCAS FAN]

Yes TWY B and agreed that it will be costly, however if the Freeport is developed in the NE corner then this may be an option with more apron/hangar space on that side. As I have mentioned previous and also drafted on the airport master plan, the easiest and quickest way would be a piece of tarmac out from stand 14 to runway, albeit there would still be a backtrack to 20!

In fact a considerably shorter backtrack on RWY 20 for takeoff, and same for after landing on RWY 02, with possibly no backtrack at all!

If you ask the question “which option?” to a SOU ATCO, I’m very confident what their answer would be to achieve the best runway movement rate.

[L1011effoh]

Early finish of extension?

C4579/23 NOTAMN
Q) EGTT/QMDCH/IV/NBO/A /000/999/5057N00121W005
A) EGHI B) 2308150530 C) 2310102200
E) DECLARED DISTANCES
RWY 02 TORA 1745M TODA 1805M ASDA 1745M LDA 1673M
RWY 20 TORA 1814M TODA 1875M ASDA 1814M LDA 1605M

[TCAS FAN]

Early finish of extension?

C4579/23 NOTAMN
Q) EGTT/QMDCH/IV/NBO/A /000/999/5057N00121W005
A) EGHI B) 2308150530 C) 2310102200
E) DECLARED DISTANCES
RWY 02 TORA 1745M TODA 1805M ASDA 1745M LDA 1673M
RWY 20 TORA 1814M TODA 1875M ASDA 1814M LDA 1605M

Would certainly appear so. Last I heard the extension paint markings are due to go down night of 14/15 August. As the NOTAM is effective as of airport opening on 15th would all tie in.

Must admit am trully amazed that CAA have apparently given approval in advance of completion of all work. NATS AIM would not have published the NOTAM without CAA approving it.

[Saabdriver1]

Believe it will be available for use as of Tuesday airfield opening. Paint is already down.

[davidjohnson6]

Is the runway extension ready in time for airlines to consider launching new routes in S24 instead of W24/25, or has SOU (ever so slightly) missed the boat on this ?

[ETOPS]

Picture or it never happened :rolleyes:

[TCAS FAN]

Is the runway extension ready in time for airlines to consider launching new routes in S24 instead of W24/25, or has SOU (ever so slightly) missed the boat on this ?

As the project kicked off in the first quarter of this year with a projected completion mid August, even with an overrun, which fortunately has not happened, the opportunity has been there for operators to plan for S24 routes.

There have been hints of something to be announced.

[LTNman]

Early finish of extension?

C4579/23 NOTAMN
Q) EGTT/QMDCH/IV/NBO/A /000/999/5057N00121W005
A) EGHI B) 2308150530 (tel:2308150530) C) 2310102200 (tel:2310102200)
E) DECLARED DISTANCES
RWY 02 TORA 1745M TODA 1805M ASDA 1745M LDA 1673M
RWY 20 TORA 1814M TODA 1875M ASDA 1814M LDA 1605M


Interesting, at Luton around 90% of all departures take off from an intersection with Twy A with a TORA of only 1771m when that runway is in use. That includes A321’s and Ryanair 737’s. The big difference is the TODA, which at Luton is 2657m, as it is like launching off an aircraft carrier due to the airports elevated position. A lack of a sizeable clearway is the limiting factor at SOU but you all know that anyway. I wonder how much TODA has been lost due to those trees?

Has it made a difference as at the other end the TODA will have remained the same?

[davidjohnson6]

As the project kicked off in the first quarter of this year with a projected completion mid August, even with an overrun, which fortunately has not happened, the opportunity has been there for operators to plan for S24 routes.
There have been hints of something to be announced.
I agree that an airlines had plenty of information what the plan was, along with delivery dates... but it's a somewhat foolish airline that makes commitments to routes until the metaphorical paint on the runway is completely dry. Until that point, one never knows 100% what unforeseen things might decide to raise its head !
Perhaps I should have rephrased the question better - do the airlines targetted by the SOU business development team still have significant internal and external flexibility to make substantive decisions for S24 about deploying capacity to SOU, or is it just a little bit too late in the route-planning process for this to happen ?

[Albert Hall]

I think it will be a while yet before announcements for S24. November would be my guess, but the announcements will come.

[stewyb]

The real question here is when do easyjet release their S24 flight only seats?

[SWBKCB]

The real question here is when do easyjet release their S24 flight only seats?

Don't new routes/destinations get announced separately from what is often just a roll over of previous schedules?

[stewyb]

Don't new routes/destinations get announced separately from what is often just a roll over of previous schedules?

Good point and seems in previous years EZY have announced new routes in December. The airport have stated they hope to have news before year end!

[RW20]

Would certainly appear so. Last I heard the extension paint markings are due to go down night of 14/15 August. As the NOTAM is effective as of airport opening on 15th would all tie in.

Must admit am trully amazed that CAA have apparently given approval in advance of completion of all work. NATS AIM would not have published the NOTAM without CAA approving it.
TCAS FAN
Good news on th declared distances,but I noticed that the notam is only up to mid October,surely the declared distanced are now permanent ?

[TCAS FAN]

TCAS FAN
Good news on th declared distances,but I noticed that the notam is only up to mid October,surely the declared distanced are now permanent ?

No worries, a NOTAM issued by an aerodrome can only be valid for a maximum of three months. If in this time the data is to become permanent the originator should file an AIP Change Request to formally change the relevant section (s) of the AIP. In this process there is the ability to designate the change as "PERM", which will then be published as such by NATS AIM.

SOU have until 1 September to file the Change Request, which if they meet this deadline will be published mid October to become formally effective on 30 November. Included within the AIP change will be a new Aerodrome Chart to depict the extension

[TCAS FAN]

Expressflight, that was a quick touch-and-go by your post! It had gone before I had completed my response!

Should you continue to be in any doubt, with a 164 metre extension the total runway length is now 1887 metres. The declared distances result in not all the runway being usable for TORA/ASDA performance calculations.

Displaced thresholds for both runways, have not moved. The 02 LDA is slightly extended to 1673, the 20 LDA is unchanged.

Other declared distances are, with the exception of the 20 TODA (1 metre more, which is plausible) are as per those contained in the Planning Application.

[Expressflight]

Expressflight, that was a quick touch-and-go by your post! It had gone before I had completed my response!

I commented originally because the new 02 numbers are less than previously apart from a 26m increase on TODA, but then looking at those for 20 I saw that there is an increase on all but LDA so deleted the post. Even so I'm rather disappointed at the increase in TODA on 20 of just 70m. Is this all that was expected?

[TCAS FAN]

I commented originally because the new 02 numbers are less than previously apart from a 26m increase on TODA, but then looking at those for 20 I saw that there is an increase on all but LDA so deleted the post. Even so I'm rather disappointed at the increase in TODA on 20 of just 70m. Is this all that was expected?

Apart from the 1 metre addition to the 20 TODA, the declared distances are what were specified in the Planning Application, so consequently what was expected.

[RW20]

No worries, a NOTAM issued by an aerodrome can only be valid for a maximum of three months. If in this time the data is to become permanent the originator should file an AIP Change Request to formally change the relevant section (s) of the AIP. In this process there is the ability to designate the change as "PERM", which will then be published as such by NATS AIM.

SOU have until 1 September to file the Change Request, which if they meet this deadline will be published mid October to become formally effective on 30 November. Included within the AIP change will be a new Aerodrome Chart to depict the extension
Many thanks for the detailed reply,I only hope that the Marhill copse trees dont compromise extended TORA through weight restrictions

[RW20]

On a separate note ,I understand the airport operations manager Steve Szalay is stepping down,,so whats going on at the management level? ​​​

[stewyb]

First departure this morning from the new extension was ATR72 Eastern to ORY and left at 0641 to launch a new era for the airport!

[TCAS FAN]

On a separate note ,I understand the airport operations manager Steve Szalay is stepping down,,so whats going on at the management level?​​​

Am often sceptical of "management-speak", may not be anything in it but why "stepping down" rather than "leaving to take up....." ?

[cavokblues]

First departure this morning from the new extension was ATR72 Eastern to ORY and left at 0641 to launch a new era for the airport!

Nice of Eastern to commemorate the special event with an unique on time departure. 😉

[TCAS FAN]

Nice of Eastern to commemorate the special event with an unique on time departure. 😉

Very good news about the extension coming into use, but based upon recent reports of very poor ORY loads, that should have been one flight that did not need the extension!

[SouthernAlliance]

On a separate note ,I understand the airport operations manager Steve Szalay is stepping down,,so whats going on at the management level? ​​​

Something at the back of my mind tells me AGS will offload the airport now they have a more saleable asset with the extension complete and have hired their own ABZ boss as a stop gap. EDI is still up for sale and maybe AGS see this as the final piece for the ‘Scottish collection’, probably totally wrong!

[Rivet Joint]

First departure this morning from the new extension was ATR72 Eastern to ORY and left at 0641 to launch a new era for the airport!

Brilliant news! How ironic after all these years it’s the day the runway extension is finally in use and the usual suspect is trying to focus the narrative on an apparent negative event. What an incredibly sad individual. I guess we are going to have a year now of the troll telling us it was a waste of money and why aren’t there new routes announced yet etc etc.

[Pain in the R's]

I guess we are going to have a year now of the troll telling us it was a waste of money and why aren’t there new routes announced yet



Actually it is probably the truth.

[LTNman]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/23725046.southampton-airport-runway-extension-unlock-potential/

“The fact that it will be extended will unlock prosperity for the area, will put Southampton on the map, and will provide more jobs.
​​​​​​​

An official opening will take place on September 21.

[SKOJB]

SOU really needs to act pretty damn quick and add some Summer 24 routes as BOH had 115k through the airport in June, a whopping 50k more than SOU. If the airport wants a share of this holiday traffic for next summer, announcements need to be made very soon before it’s too late and most people have already booked flights from elsewhere!

[adfly]

SOU really needs to act pretty damn quick and add some Summer 24 routes as BOH had 115k through the airport in June, a whopping 50k more than SOU. If the airport wants a share of this holiday traffic for next summer, announcements need to be made very soon before it’s too late and most people have already booked flights from elsewhere!
I'm quite sure the majority of people don't book this early for next Summer, so there's plenty of time yet. I think the peak time for booking is normally early in the New Year. I'd assume any carriers would aim to get most flights out this side of Christmas to have everything in place for that period. Anyone better informed on the topic?

[MARKEYD]

There is absolutely no need to panic about the release of Summer 24 flights

The only companies that do this is TUI and Jet 2 they amend constantly and update all the time

Ryanair and EasyJet don’t release anything until mid October / November so don’t expect anything until then

No one really books until Dec / Jan when it all goes crazy town !!

BA just copy and paste everything for the following year then just cancel at the last minute as always
I have access to BA loads and it’s a mixed bag
The TUI charter flights have done so far extremely well with BA Cityflyer , full to be precise ..

However the rest of the schedule like ALC , FAO and AGP about 60 / 70 % for August , the fares are pretty high and could be the reason , but not breaking loads for the height of summer I am afraid

[SKOJB]

Thanks MarkeyD, just a little concerned like others that nothing has been announced yet. Do TUI book seats with easyjet?

[MARKEYD]

Yes EasyJet have contracts with TUI but tend to use them when their airline don’t fly to that destination
A good example would be particular in the winter with Crystal Ski

[RW20]

The June Pax numbers for SOU are a little dissapointing ,indeed the airport will have diffuculty making the quoted break even figure of 1.2 mill for 2023.
Given that Bournemouth are still increasing flights and paxs numbers,its inperative SOU attract an airline to carry the number of paxs to return it to profitability asap.


​​​

[stewyb]

The June Pax numbers for SOU are a little dissapointing ,indeed the airport will have diffuculty making the quoted break even figure of 1.2 mill for 2023.
Given that Bournemouth are still increasing flights and paxs numbers,its inperative SOU attract an airline to carry the number of paxs to return it to profitability asap.


​​​

Don’t believe their forecast for 2023 was ever 1.2m, instead more like 750k which they should hit. If they can get some summer flying for next year and the odd additional route maybe year round, including MAN x 3 daily with Loganair, 1m could become much more achievable by 2024 year end!

[RW20]

Don’t believe their forecast for 2023 was ever 1.2m, instead more like 750k which they should hit. If they can get some summer flying for next year and the odd additional route maybe year round, including MAN x 3 daily with Loganair, 1m could become much more achievable by 2024 year end!
Its not the forcast that I was refering to,its the quoted figure of 1.2 mill pax by Steve Szazlay operations Manager .When consultations were ongoing for the extension he said that the airport was losing 4million a year,and 1.2 million paxs were the break even baseline. If so then its a long way off on the current figures.

[stewyb]

Its not the forcast that I was refering to,its the quoted figure of 1.2 mill pax by Steve Szazlay operations Manager .When consultations were ongoing for the extension he said that the airport was losing 4million a year,and 1.2 million paxs were the break even baseline. If so then its a long way off on the current figures.

Hopefully 2024 will be a little more reflective of their break even ambitions

[ETOPS]

What the heck - a banana shaped runway?


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1124/sou_runway_image_4261c37e3b6e6ab7b72dfaae17498fc6261229bb.jp g

[SWBKCB]

Ski jump!

[Downwind_Left]

At least one, and presumably several, Southampton scheduled carriers will not be using the extension anytime soon.

The runway extension was “opened” by NOTAM with new runway declared distances, however the procedures for updates to AIP information have not been concluded. If you look at the UK AIP September and October planned updates there’s no mention on the runway extension at Southampton. So no official charts, no surveys of new obstacles based on the new runway surfaces and surrounding areas.

Until official data is available from the likes of Jeppesen, Lido et al, via UK AIP updates, the extension is un-useable. No charts. No performance data using the new extension in either direction.

[RW20]

This is interesting,so officially the extension is unusable until nats aip is published in the future?
TCAS FAN please clarify!!

[SouthernAlliance]

This is interesting,so officially the extension is unusable until nats aip is published in the future?
TCAS FAN please clarify!!

Unofficially all airlines apart from BA have utilised it already

[TCAS FAN]

This is interesting,so officially the extension is unusable until nats aip is published in the future?
TCAS FAN please clarify!!

Firstly many thanks for the confidence expressed in my posts.

The NOTAM is official and therefore the increased declared distances can be used operationally for take-off performance purposes, and in the case of RWY 02 improved landing distance. That said it may be possible that some operators may have not have yet updated their own performance charts for SOU to reflect the improved declared distances.

My post 1901 explains where we go following the NOTAM.

Unless the new blast fence/wall north of the runway is of such height that it penetrates the RWY 02 Type A TOCS surface, which I sincerely doubt that it does, nothing has changed with obstacles. Albeit those south of the runway are farther away from the start of take-off point.

[RW20]

Firstly many thanks for the confidence expressed in posts.

The NOTAM is official and therefore the increased declared distances can be used operationally for take-off performance purposes, and in the case of RWY 02 improved landing distance. That said it may be possible that some operators may have not have yet updated their own performance charts for SOU to reflect the improved declared distances.

My post 1901 explains where we go following the NOTAM.

Unless the new blast fence/wall north of the runway is of such height that it penetrates the RWY 02 Type A TOCS surface, which I sincerely doubt that it does, nothing has changed with obstacles. Albeit those south of the runway are farther away from the start of take-off point.
Thank you for a clear explanation of the declared distances,I would presume that all operators would want to update there charts asap!

[TCAS FAN]

What the heck - a banana shaped runway?


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1124/sou_runway_image_4261c37e3b6e6ab7b72dfaae17498fc6261229bb.jp g

Nothing bent on what I assume to be the original copy on the SOU contractor’s app.

[ETOPS]

I know - but you might have thought more care would be taken to show off this welcome addition. Even a ground level well framed snap would have looked better :=

[TCAS FAN]

Nothing bent on what I assume to be the original copy on the SOU contractor’s app.

Thanks to Horizon Imaging Ltd, who I assume is the drone operator, here is the image on the contractor's app.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/962x624/sou_runway_extension_849998288831a3a038ea9fd7c9b99c0dec80210 5.jpeg
Bootiful!

[ETOPS]

PS Nothing to stop you using the new bit for take-off but with the "old" perf figures - used to do that all the time at LGW.

[willy wombat]

Have you got a “before” photo as not sure how it used to look?

[SWBKCB]

What's that odd shaped bit of tarmac near the piano keys - presumably not a turning circle, as that would be marked?

[TCAS FAN]

Thats the old turning circles, first installed when the runway was first constructed in the 1960s, a second added after initial construction.

[TCAS FAN]

Have you got a “before” photo as not sure how it used to look?

Here it is.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1570x936/sou_orig_runway_1e12cde1964a4b10165770a678fa457beae018c3.jpg

[willy wombat]

There should actually be some sort of general celebration for this as, in these eco warrior days, there is so little possibility of new or improved aviation infrastructure.

[Rivet Joint]

And so it’s been proved right. More hysteria. It’s only been open a few days, give things time to catch up! Aircraft are physically taking off from the new tarmac, what more evidence do you need? There was a calibration flight the other day.

[TCAS FAN]

Now that the runway extension is done and dusted, was getting bored so decided to have a look at the "Navigators Quarter" development, which includes the AGS land to the east of the runway, what used to be the 10/28 grass runway many many years ago.

This development is outlined in a website:

https://www.navigatorquarter.co.uk/

You may find it amusing to look at the home page graphics to see what some clown has done to show the runway extension!

The proposed development includes three parcels of land, "Railside" (the current old Locomotive Works site), "Riverside" (east of Campbell Road) and "Skyside" (the AGS land).

On a positive note "Railside" could benefit SOU as the current large/high Loco Works sheds will be demolished. These are a potentially weight limiting obstacle for RWY 02 departures. The question is "how will it be accessed?". All that is currently available is the narrow Campbell Road bridge, with two sharp bends on it. Must be great fun navigating an articulated truck around it.

Same question for "Riverside", only current access is Campbell Road bridge. Doubt if the Campbell Road residents are going to be impressed with all the extra traffic.

Finally, the one that I've previously been banging on about, "Skyside".

Firstly the "SAM" VOR/DME will need de-commissioning, has been talked about in past as part of an on-going NATS UK VOR reduction plan, anyone know the latest on when it goes?

Then of course is the issue of access. Would appear that the only viable option is around the north end of the runway. Just how is this going to work? In a past life the proposed site development was discussed with the somewhat naive view that "no problem, we will install traffic lights which ATC can control", the ATC response was to tell BAA where they could stick their traffic lights, and of course it was not north of the runway!

The next, potentially amusing episode is awaited.

[stewyb]

I believe there will be access to all 3 Navigator sites from the airport road and will perimeter around the north of the airfield with a cutting dug at the head of R20

[stewyb]

There is absolutely no need to panic about the release of Summer 24 flights

The only companies that do this is TUI and Jet 2 they amend constantly and update all the time

Ryanair and EasyJet don’t release anything until mid October / November so don’t expect anything until then

No one really books until Dec / Jan when it all goes crazy town !!

BA just copy and paste everything for the following year then just cancel at the last minute as always
I have access to BA loads and it’s a mixed bag
The TUI charter flights have done so far extremely well with BA Cityflyer , full to be precise ..

However the rest of the schedule like ALC , FAO and AGP about 60 / 70 % for August , the fares are pretty high and could be the reason , but not breaking loads for the height of summer I am afraid

Concur with MARKEYD and flight only release dates are usually Nov/Dec for the following summer. At that point there will be some route announcements for SOU so no need to panic!

[TCAS FAN]

I believe there will be access to all 3 Navigator sites from the airport road and will perimeter around the north of the airfield with a cutting dug at the head of R20

Have a look at Google Earth, albeit that it will be a while before the runway extension appears. It should become evident how many rail tracks are in the way, no way is there an economic option for access to Railside from the airport site.

If everything is to access from the airport side, is someone going to fund a new bridge from Wide Lane north of the Terminal and/or replace the current chicane on the current Wide Lane Bridge? In the case of the latter, the airport perimeter road is going to get very busy with 2 million + passengers and Navigator Quarter traffic!

This is beginning to look like something akin to the new Global Airlines! When does the Navigator Quarter merchandise go on sale?

[SWBKCB]

It should become evident how many rail tracks are in the way, no way is there an economic option for access to Railside from the airport site.

Judging by the illustrations on that website, it does look like the perimeter track round the end of 20 is the way in and out of all three sites (look at the trucks in the illustration). Certainly a very constrained site unless somebody starts adding bridges over the railway lines.

[Pain in the R's]

And so it’s been proved right. More hysteria. It’s only been open a few days, give things time to catch up! Aircraft are physically taking off from the new tarmac, what more evidence do you need? There was a calibration flight the other day.

Get a grip sonny. Those aircraft did not need the extra length. Success will be measured on aircraft that need the extra length.

[BA318]

Get a grip sonny. Those aircraft did not need the extra length. Success will be measured on aircraft that need the extra length.

And that doesn’t always happen instantly. Look at LCY. It was years before it was booming.

[Saabdriver1]

Get a grip sonny. Those aircraft did not need the extra length.

I’d love to know from what knowledge base you make that statement. The additional runway length has made a massive difference to the E145 performance. I understand ATR72 aircraft which have seen payload restrictions off R20 are seeing similar improvements.

[RW20]

Get a grip sonny. Those aircraft did not need the extra length. Success will be measured on aircraft that need the extra length.
You should remember this contributor has some extreme views. Im sure SOU will be seeing many airbuses in the near future.

[LTNman]

Im sure SOU will be seeing many airbuses in the near future.


Summed up nicely. Forget ATR 72’s, which seem to actually need 1315m at maximum takeoff weight but will use what is available. Success or failure here will be judged on Airbuses.

[LGS6753]

Summed up nicely. Forget ATR 72’s, which seem to actually need 1315m at maximum takeoff weight but will use what is available. Success or failure here will be judged on Airbuses.
The plural of Airbus is Airbi.:ok:

[TCAS FAN]

The runway extension is apparently completed? If so has someone at SOU forgotten about this NOTAM (C3536/23) that is still current until 25 September?
A)EGTT/QFAAH/IV/BO/A/000/999/5057N00121W005
B)2306270530 C)2309252145
E)AD OPERATING HOURS
MON-SAT 0530-2100
SUN 0630-2100
ANY EXTENSION TO OPR HR WILL ONLY BE GRANTED IN EXCEPTIONAL
CIRCUMSTANCES DUE TO RWY EXTENTION WORKS AND ONLY WITH PERMISSION
OF THE AIRPORT DUTY MANAGER (02380 627113)

[Asturias56]

whats the rush?

[Rivet Joint]

I’d love to know from what knowledge base you make that statement. The additional runway length has made a massive difference to the E145 performance. I understand ATR72 aircraft which have seen payload restrictions off R20 are seeing similar improvements.

That’s great to hear. Do you know what sort improvements for those aircraft it has had? Carry more passengers, burn less fuel etc? Hopefully it results in lower ticket prices.

[LTNman]

That’s great to hear. Do you know what sort improvements for those aircraft it has had? Carry more passengers, burn less fuel etc? Hopefully it results in lower ticket prices.

So where is the evidence? Looking up the manufacturers spec for the ATR72, it stated that at maximum takeoff weight the aircraft needs only 1315m. Why did those figures not apply at SOU?

[adfly]

So where is the evidence? Looking up the manufacturers spec for the ATR72, it stated that at maximum takeoff weight the aircraft needs only 1315m. Why did those figures not apply at SOU?
1315m is at ISA conditions - which assumes no wind 15°C, 1013mbar ambient pressure etc... Aircraft performance can drop off considerably when these values deviate. Those distances also don't factor in the effect of any obstacles around the runway.

[Pain in the R's]

The distances available and performance figures remain the same for departures from runway 02 at 1723m TODA. Airlines would have to factor in the shorter distances available for runway 02 for any new route calculation.

[RW20]

The distances available and performance figures remain the same for departures from runway 02 at 1723m TODA. Airlines would have to factor in the shorter distances available for runway 02 for any new route calculation.
This is incorrect ,the declared distance for TORA 02 is 1745mtrs.

[willy wombat]

But because of the shorter distances it is reasonable to assume that 02 will not be used if the wind is calm so when 02 in use there will always be some headwind to improve performance. There are other examples of regular A320 operations into airfields where one direction is very limiting. The best example that comes to mind is Florence.

[TCAS FAN]

But because of the shorter distances it is reasonable to assume that 02 will not be used if the wind is calm so when 02 in use there will always be some headwind to improve performance. There are other examples of regular A320 operations into airfields where one direction is very limiting. The best example that comes to mind is Florence.

Prior to the runway extension during calm or light wind conditions on occasions we received requests when runway 20 was in use for use of runway 02 in order to take advantage of the better TORA, even if this resulted in a slight tailwind component. Now that the extension is in use the situation means that 20 has the superior TORA.

I cannot for one moment believe that AGS made the large capital investment in SOU without having spoken to prospective new operators to ascertain what they need to consider operating from SOU. While now less than 20, I feel sure that operations from 02 would have been considered by prospective operators.

[Saabdriver1]

Departure off R20 is obstacle limited with five trees fairly close-in requiring an emergency turn even for an ATR72. The new performance with the starter strip is a big improvement.

[SKOJB]

Noticed on FR24 post extension that most aircraft have gained considerably more height over Marlhill Copse that was/is causing the obstacle restrictions

[rog747]

I flew in from Venice to SOU the evening on KLM via Amsterdam and both flights were full almost which was good to see, although I was the only person in Business Class from Amsterdam to Southampton on the evening flight.
What I did notice though that Southampton will need to improve their ground handling for Arrivals as when there could be two or maybe even 3 180-190 seat aircraft arriving at around the same time when the airport would simply struggle to cope with the Arrivals, the Border Force check controls (which are time consuming) and then the Baggage Reclaim area, so they do need to look at that once once an airline decides to operate in to Southampton with larger aircraft on a regular basis.

Baggage Handling and the Loading at both VCE and AMS was a complete shambles and caused lengthy delays to both flight's departures.
My commiserations to both of Flight Deck crews who seemingly have to endure this on many flights these days.
If I had taken the later VCE-AMS flight I wouldn't have made the 'booked' 45 minute connection from AMS to SOU.

Ground handling on arrival at SOU was OK, apart from just 1 Border Force desk open initially - but once the line was almost out of the door then desk #2 opened.
I was in the first 5 off so was not really an issue for me.

[stewyb]

Taking a quick look at easyjet schedules for W23, there should be no issues with overcrowding in baggage/arrivals etc as the majority of days only have 1 or 2 flights arriving although Saturday does have 3-4 flights, albeit at differing times so no major problem. However the first real test will be next summer when easyjet will be running a much larger program from the airport and could have multiple arrivals at once!

[RW20]

Taking a quick look at easyjet schedules for W23, there should be no issues with overcrowding in baggage/arrivals etc as the majority of days only have 1 or 2 flights arriving although Saturday does have up 3-4 flights, albeit at differing times so no major problem. However the first real test will be next summer when easyjet will be running a much larger program from the airport and could have multiple arrivals at once!
Im sure that if the airport management want to attract the likes of Easy next Summer they understand the need to up there game on handling both arrivals/departures quickly and efficiency.

[stewyb]

Im sure that if the airport management want to attract the likes of Easy next Summer they understand the need to up there game on handling both arrivals/departures quickly and efficiency.

Indeed and you would expect the airport to be properly resourced

[Pain in the R's]

However the first real test will be next summer when easyjet will be running a much larger program from the airport and could have multiple arrivals at once!

I must have missed the announcement, where are they flying to from Southampton?

[Sotonsean]

I must have missed the announcement, where are they flying to from Southampton?

Other than the usual winter only flights from Geneva and the very short lived winter flights from Belfast International and Glasgow there has been NO announcement by EasyJet regarding any other destinations to Southampton.

I as much as everyone else on this forum are hopeful in EasyJet announcing further expansion from Southampton. But until the day that EasyJet make an official statement it's all theoretical.

There are certain individuals who claim that they have inside knowledge and there are those that enjoy the consistent rumours.

We are all hoping that EasyJet announce expansion from Southampton, but until it's made official it's just rumours and wishful thinking.

[TartinTon]

Unless the contributors are working directly for Easy's Route Dev department then it's just wishful thinking. Even if the airport are saying it, it means nothing. Airlines talk to many, many airports all the time and things change overnight.

[RW20]

Congratulations to the airport staff,as the airport is rated 3rd best for in the UK by Which.
Lets hope it brings in more PAX and airlines!

[Pain in the R's]

Alas it makes no difference. Southend was voted best airport year after year but now look at them with passenger totals so low they have been removed from the table, while the airports at the bottom of the list still maintain their high passenger numbers.

[stewyb]

Alas it makes no difference. Southend was voted best airport year after year but now look at them with passenger totals so low they have been removed from the table, while the airports at the bottom of the list still maintain their high passenger numbers.

So you seriously believe SOU will go the same way as SEN? This time next year the airport will most likely be operating 30-40 departures daily and could be back at 1m pax annually again, give your head a wobble!

[SWBKCB]

So you seriously believe SOU will go the same way as SEN? This time next year the airport will most likely be operating 30-40 departures daily and could be back at 1m pax annually again, give your head a wobble!

Maybe read what was said? The comment was about the impact of Which surveys - PR said they are no guarantee of success, using SEN as an example, there was no implication that SOU would go the same way. I doubt they have any influence on where airlines chose to fly.

[davidjohnson6]

In the past I have been one if a very few (or even the only) passenger departing on a public commercial airline flight from an airport in a windiw of a few hours. The airport in question was pretty much empty - functioning effectively as a private terminal - making it a very enjoyable experience and I would have happily give a 10 out of 10 rating. Not sure that kind of experience is good for the airport though...

[RW20]

I do hope the airport management will make an annoucement soon on Sun routes for '24,it seems Bournemouth are buiding up for '24 with further based aircraft,this could seriously impact SOU prospects for attracting additional med routes in '24.

[stewyb]

The BOH thread has rumours of 4, yes 4, based RYR aircraft for next summer. That would be interesting with their current terminal setup, just like SOU with its limited terminal capacity. It certainly spices up the competition for market share on the south coast, albeit nothing is yet announced for SOU next summer. However we can expect something fairly soon and will no doubt draw away a certain percentage of BOH regulars, interesting times!

[Rivet Joint]

The BOH thread has rumours of 4, yes 4, based RYR aircraft for next summer. That would be interesting with their current terminal setup, just like SOU with its limited terminal capacity. It certainly spices up the competition for market share on the south coast, albeit nothing is yet announced for SOU next summer. However we can expect something fairly soon and will no doubt draw away a certain percentage of BOH regulars, interesting times!

As discussed time and time again for many years SOU is not targeting penny pinchers paying a few quid to fly the awful RYR. BOH are probably getting peanuts from RYR to base there in the first place. It’s all just an ancillary operation for BOH to keep their business diverse and of course keep SOU in check. You could see from the extremely jealous and mean spirited letters BOH submitted to object to SOU’s runway extension that they know SOU with a low cost operator will be much more successful than them. Most importantly it looks like SOU will get the best low cost operator of them all in EZY who will not lowball SOU on charges and will be a better fit to the more affluent catchment. I also expect WIZZ to move their Eastern European flights to SOU given the huge Eastern European population there.

So I will say it again, BOH is completely irrelevant to SOU. It’s a poor airport, poorly located, with poor transport links that gets by with Poundland flights. SOU is an airport people actually want to fly from and can conveniently which is why for many many years people have paid a premium to do so. As a long standing poster and one of the few positive people I’m surprised by your post.

[cavokblues]

Not sure how you can say an airport attracting an airline and passengers to be diverse is ancillary to their business. Isn't that the very nature of their business?

Also, if all of Southampton's eggs are in the easyJet basket than I would fully expect easyJet to low ball them into paying peanuts. Seems Southampton need them much more than do they do Southampton.

And is Southampton's surroundings really any more affluent than Bournemouth's? You suggest people wouldn't fly Ryanair from Southampton as they're too seemingly too posh. Yet they would fly Wizz?

The threat is, easyjet do not like getting into direct competition with Ryanair. They actively avoid it. But I don't think there ia enough of a threat from their BOU operations to jeopardise potential easy ops from Southampton

I'm sure if Ryanair could get into Southampton the airline and the local public would welcome them with open arms as much as they will easyjet.

[Pain in the R's]

So I will say it again, BOH is completely irrelevant to SOU. It’s a poor airport, poorly located, with poor transport links that gets by with Poundland flights.


I agree about its location and transport links but the truth is that BOH is already spoiling the SOU party. Let’s not mention both airports opening hours. There is a clue there as to Southampton’s major problem and why no LCC will never open a base there.

[stewyb]

As discussed time and time again for many years SOU is not targeting penny pinchers paying a few quid to fly the awful RYR. BOH are probably getting peanuts from RYR to base there in the first place. It’s all just an ancillary operation for BOH to keep their business diverse and of course keep SOU in check. You could see from the extremely jealous and mean spirited letters BOH submitted to object to SOU’s runway extension that they know SOU with a low cost operator will be much more successful than them. Most importantly it looks like SOU will get the best low cost operator of them all in EZY who will not lowball SOU on charges and will be a better fit to the more affluent catchment. I also expect WIZZ to move their Eastern European flights to SOU given the huge Eastern European population there.

So I will say it again, BOH is completely irrelevant to SOU. It’s a poor airport, poorly located, with poor transport links that gets by with Poundland flights. SOU is an airport people actually want to fly from and can conveniently which is why for many many years people have paid a premium to do so. As a long standing poster and one of the few positive people I’m surprised by your post.

Why surprised by my post? I have said nothing controversial and instead only pointed out that there will be interesting times ahead for both south coast airports

[SWBKCB]

RJ is Basil "No riff-raff" Fawlty, and I claim my five pounds 👍

[MARKEYD]

Definitely a strange post from RJ which rather contradicts ….
In one breath Ryanair is Poundland to BOH
but very happy to welcome Wizz air into the Southampton fold

I think SOU would “ NOT “ be jumping for joy if they suddenly rocked up to the party at the airport
Just have a read at how bad that lot are and the repercussions at the airport will follow

[RW20]

Why surprised by my post? I have said nothing controversial and instead only pointed out that there will be interesting times ahead for both south coast airports
Its clear that BOH have got there act together and are doing well,the fact that they can base aircraft for operations is major plus, Ryanair etc can operate without restrictions ,often landing into early hours if delayed..This is where LCCs have a problem with SOU very restricted hours.For future operations and long term survival SOU needs to attract a Sun route operater that can operate within the restrictive hours,time will tell!

[stewyb]

Its clear that BOH have got there act together and are doing well,the fact that they can base aircraft for operations is major plus, Ryanair etc can operate without restrictions ,often landing into early hours if delayed..This is where LCCs have a problem with SOU very restricted hours.For future operations and long term survival SOU needs to attract a Sun route operater that can operate within the restrictive hours,time will tell!

Not quite sure that is entirely correct as not many/if any flights land after 2330 into BOH and are regularly diverted if so. As for SOU, yes maybe restrictive hours but a large non based EZY operation will fit in well with their numerous scheduled services domestic and international. As for SOU long term survival, please don’t worry as they will be just fine!

[RW20]

I dont think you are correct with the the Boh diversion facts,for example in the last couple of days they have had two arrivals after 23-30,and one @ 00-15!

[Asturias56]

"As for SOU long term survival, please don’t worry as they will be just fine!"

I wish I could be so upbeat - its a small airport surrounded by developments- eventually the value of the land for building will far exceed any aviation business case. It's a sitting target for redevelopment - not this year, maybe not 5 years - but in 10 years........................... The Govt, the local authorities and the developers will be screaming for more land in the area

[TCAS FAN]

"As for SOU long term survival, please don’t worry as they will be just fine!"

I wish I could be so upbeat - it’s a small airport surrounded by developments- eventually the value of the land for building will far exceed any aviation business case. It's a sitting target for redevelopment - not this year, maybe not 5 years - but in 10 years........................... The Govt, the local authorities and the developers will be screaming for more land in the area

If AGS’s strategy is to ultimately sell off the site for non-aviation development why the recent large investment in a runway extension?

Without an extension a case could possibly have been made that the airport business was no longer viable and the land sold off. In such cases I understand that it may be considered as a brownfield site thereby circumventing many development constraints, making it very attractive to developers.

[Asturias56]

May not be their current plan - but times and shareholders (and even owners) change - especially when there are meg-buck to be made I'm afraid

[SouthernAlliance]

Don’t you just love PPrune, the tarmac on a new runway extension has hardly had a chance to set and already a suggestion of the airport closing for alternative commercial means!

[UnderASouthernSky]

I dont think you are correct with the the Boh diversion facts,for example in the last couple of days they have had two arrivals after 23-30,and one @ 00-15!

Hasn't there been an approved national relaxation of night restrictions in the days following the NATS failure?

[Asturias56]

Don’t you just love PPrune, the tarmac on a new runway extension has hardly had a chance to set and already a suggestion of the airport closing for alternative commercial means!

well someone was saying it would last forever - TBH smaller airports are under increasing pressure just about everywhere in the world. All that space is very attractive to just about any other industry (or politician). I reckon its good for ten years - after that.... I doubt it

[Rivet Joint]

Why surprised by my post? I have said nothing controversial and instead only pointed out that there will be interesting times ahead for both south coast airports

Mainly because it will stir up the BOH v SOU debate again and have the usual trolls rubbing their hands together and so it has proved correct. I know it wasn’t your intention but unfortunately so many trolls seem to be attracted to this thread.

Markeyd: Wizz is almost always the preferred airline for people from Eastern Europe. Many from the local area travel all the way to Luton to fly them. I doubt Ezy plan any Eastern European routes so Wizz could do those routes and not affect Ezy.

[Pain in the R's]

There are no trolls on the thread just people with a neutral stance who are not afraid to ask questions and to point out a few facts to those with deaf ears who keep spouting on about trolls.

[SWBKCB]

As discussed time and time again for many years SOU is not targeting penny pinchers paying a few quid to fly the awful RYR.

You could see from the extremely jealous and mean spirited letters BOH submitted to object to SOU’s runway extension that they know SOU with a low cost operator will be much more successful than them.

​​​​​​​So I will say it again, BOH is completely irrelevant to SOU. It's a poor airport, poorly located, with poor transport links that gets by with Poundland flights.

Yes, let's not "stir up the BOH v SOU debate again" !​​​​​​​

[Asturias56]

There are no trolls on the thread just people with a neutral stance who are not afraid to ask questions and to point out a few facts to those with deaf ears who keep spouting on about trolls.

Exactly- its not being a "troll" to point out facts that affect almost every Airport in Europe (and even the USA in places) - when you see the possibility of AMS being trimmed down you have to realise that not everyone thinks that airports are wonderful. The danger is that the anti- group is growing steadily in many countries. The smaller the airport the more likely that someone will decide to take a pop at it

[SouthernAlliance]

Eastern now loaded ORY for winter season, assume this is only continuing because AF subsidise a large number of seats on each flight!

[Rivet Joint]

Exactly- its not being a "troll" to point out facts that affect almost every Airport in Europe (and even the USA in places) - when you see the possibility of AMS being trimmed down you have to realise that not everyone thinks that airports are wonderful. The danger is that the anti- group is growing steadily in many countries. The smaller the airport the more likely that someone will decide to take a pop at it


Is that so? So tell me, if I go and check all the other airport threads I will see you and the aptly named pain in the R’s posting the same dose of reality on those threads? Doubt it. I have never seen another thread on this forum abused as much as the SOU one. Fair enough if it’s reasoned debate but people talking about the airport being closed for housing at a time when they have just invested lots of money in a new runway has no logic to it. It’s just someone racked with insecurities and rather than addressing them tries to make everyone else feel as bad as they do i.e. a troll.

Are you suggesting the AMS route is potentially at risk because of it’s performance rather that the well publicised clampdown by the Dutch government on flights?

[Rivet Joint]

Yes, let's not "stir up the BOH v SOU debate again" !

Which bit isn’t factual?

I actually point out BOH’s main strength and indeed the reason why both it and SOU can coexist very easily even when SOU has a low cost operator. SOU is a commercial flight airport, BOH does a little bit of everything and therefore will not live or die based on its commercial flights. TUI and FR will continue to do what they are doing regardless of SOU having low cost flights. Right, let’s move on.

[Sotonsean]

Which bit isn’t factual?

I actually point out BOH’s main strength and indeed the reason why both it and SOU can coexist very easily even when SOU has a low cost operator. SOU is a commercial flight airport, BOH does a little bit of everything and therefore will not live or die based on its commercial flights. TUI and FR will continue to do what they are doing regardless of SOU having low cost flights. Right, let’s move on.

Hopefully you will personally adhere to those last four words you have used in your latest rant 😉

[Flitefone]

All the regional airports on the south coast, when looking to drive growth - which they always are - will seek ways to serve more of the demand currently using the London airports, especially LHR/LGW. These two airports between them in 2019 handled near 100 times the combined annual throughput of BOH/SOU today. And are almost back to 2019 traffic.

By grabbing just 1% of that LHR/LGW market, these south coast airports could double their passenger figures. The management focus will be there, not eating the lunch of their nearer neighbour.

I wish them both luck.

FF