Southampton-3

[stewyb]

unfortunately a future with just those small regional carriers will not be enough for SOU to survive long term and therefore it’s essential they entice carriers that also add a few sun/city destinations. If you honestly believe the likes of EZY will continue to downsize once this pandemic is over, you are very much mistaken as pent up demand for short haul travel will be enormous and our nation will want to travel abroad to warmer climes again. In fact MOL stated recently that he expects demand to return to pre COVID levels during 2022, albeit with yield levels taking further time to recover!

[Albert Hall]

This fixation with easyJet and Southampton keeps coming back. It’s not happening - certainly not within any time frame that any of us can foresee.

There may be other developments. But this isn’t one of them.

[TCAS FAN]

Red Four

An answer to your last sentence may be shortly forthcoming.

[stewyb]

Albert Hall

not saying it is but how on earth do you know otherwise? Ryanair are happy to add ALC and
PMI at MME with route duplication just up the road at NCL so why not something similar at SOU. This extension and the millions being spent is certainly not to entice a watered down version of Flybe to come back!

[Expressflight]

Red Four

That's certainly the way I see it.

[SKOJB]

Whats 15m between friends!😃

[RW20]

The fixation with attracting Easy to Southampton with the runway starter strip by certain contributors to this blog seems to have reached a new high!
The runway plans which are shortly to be assessed by EBC are at best a small improvement to the airports capabilities.With the Covid on going situation and potential long recovery process , all that SOU can hope for is survival at a much reduced operating time. The chances of Easy or any other LCC coming to SOU are very small at best. It's difficult to see with even the runways possible extension an international future for the airport,to survive short time the best bet might be domestic flights with a selection of training,light movements and limited opening hours.

[Rivet Joint]

And so once again this thread resorts to armchair experts spouting absolute nonsense off the back of bits and pieces they can find on the internet. All of which of course is completely negative. If any of you seriously think any company, let alone one owned by a pension fund(!), would invest millions of shareholders money without a sizable business case you are a moron. God forbid a thread dedicated to an airport that is making a multi million pound investment during one of the biggest downturns of the aviation industry is talked about positively(!).

[SKOJB]

I always view this thread from a distance and comment occasionally on the airport and its goings on. SOU has clearly had its setbacks recently and will take a while to climb back up. However if the runway extension is built, I don’t understand why the airport can’t have its own ambitions and with the considerable investment being made, look to attract some of the more popular carriers. Other regional airports seem to provide the regular holiday destinations so why can’t SOU. A large base set up by a LCC will always be limited due to apron space available but it’s definitely feasible for a select choice of profitable routes, just my observation from a far

[SWBKCB]

Rivet Joint

While not quite the language I would use, I'm inclined to agree. Not that private companies never do anything stupid, but it seems unlikely that SOU would spending the money without an expectation of pay-off. Certainly training and light a/c movements won't pay for the infrastucture required for an airport used for scheduled services.

Anybody know how long the planning permission would be valid for - I've got 4 years in the back of my head?

[V12]

If any of you seriously think any company, let alone one owned by a pension fund(!), would invest millions of shareholders money without a sizable business case you are a moron. .

Oh I don't know... As an aviation professional I was staggered to watch how SH and COW destroyed FBE over its last 5 years with ridiculous plans that were never going to work. A public company (admittedly handicapped by JF's mad strategy) still choosing to write, and implement crazy business plans, with public and pension fund backing throughout. The chairman should have stopped it but he let it escalate. Picking a fight with LM on their home patch, where they could be relied on to fight to the death wasn't smart. COW rejecting a serious offer for FBE was the final curtain. The destruction of shareholder value was of its own making.

[Dropoffcharge]

SWBKCB

Anybody know how long the planning permission would be valid for - I've got 4 years in the back of my head?[/QUOTE]
3 years I would say, unless business/commercial is different from private/residential.

[Rivet Joint]

SWBKCB

Agreed there are exceptions to the rule, but very rarely when it comes to largescale pension funds. The amount of hurdles and due diligence involved is extensive, and lets not forget SOU was up until recently known for being massively tight when it came to investing in it's airside operations. It is pretty daft therefore to suggest that they are now loosening the purse strings on a whim. Clearly that is not how they conduct their business. Light aircraft and general aviation is also clearly not of interest to SOU, in fact if I recall correctly the flight school that was based there was asked to leave and ended up at BOH. I believe planning is valid for 3 years usually, but seeing as the MD is on record as stating that £15m is already set aside for the works, hopefully that means they will get on with it straight away.

[Rivet Joint]

V12

Very good point, although I think BE are a special case. They are also small fry compared to the billion dollar companies that own SOU. As you say, the individual egos of JF and COW would appear to be the architects of BEs demise, I am not sure individuals have as much control at companies like the ones that own SOU (you would hope).

[Dropoffcharge]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/18914634.southampton-city-council-objects-southampton-airport-plans/

[SKOJB]

The big event i think is on the 17th!

[stewyb]

Noting Wizz have opened a one aircraft base at CWL with 9 routes, this could be a decent option for SOU with a few sun routes post runway extension (assuming approval). Wizz have already stated they want UK expansion with more bases added so wouldn’t rule it out!

[PDXCWL45]

Would SOU runway be long enough for an A321/A321 neo to say Tenerife?

[Buster the Bear]

Southampton airport owners have milked the profits and now the cash cow has has been euthanised. All a bit to late this runway extension stuff and if the local Council are not backing it, trying to gain planning permission might well be too late? That is the problem with disconnected multi national owners. Terminal, apron and runway extensions should have been in place years ago, but whilst the cow was producing cash, why bother?

[RW20]

Good points
The runway application will be rejected and frankly it would make little difference in the short to medium term considering the impact of covid on aviation.
Other contributors have proposed old chestnuts like Easy and now Wizz coming to the airport,I'm afraid these are non starters.Even with a runway extension the sun routes would be limited to the Med,Tenerife would not be reachable with a full load.The airport owners missed the bus years ago for airport expansion,with capacity opened up at other regional airports Southampton future looks very uncertain.
​

[TCAS FAN]

Good points
The runway application will be rejected .......​

Can we assume that this is a personal viewpoint and that we can retain faith in the legal planning process?

[Rivet Joint]

stewyb

I agree Wizz are probably now the most likely to open some routes after the works are completed. Easy are probably still the best match for SOU but Wizz seem to be riding out the Covid crisis much better than them. Wizz’s links to Eastern Europe would also be perfect to serve the huge Easter European population in the south. I happen to know quite a few who travel as far as Luton to use Wizz. They are clearly also targeting sun routes that use to be served by Thomas Cook.

in terms of Southampton council objecting to the planning, this is hardly surprising when there are militant labour Councillors in charge that are ruining the city by making it only possible to get in and out on a bicycle. Their so called green city charter basically means they have tied their hands behind their back when it comes to supporting anything that goes against the deluded Eco-mentalists. The ridiculous thing is that they partly objected on the basis of noise despite the fact SOU have offered to implement a noise cap which currently doesn’t even exist. Also ironic that they are happy for the docks to start building a fifth cruise terminal when the boats are one of the biggest polluters in the city. There is still a glimmer of hope that Eastleigh Council will agree to give planning as it means jobs for their constituents but it is looking more likely that SOU will have to go down the appeal route. I fully expect SOU to win on appeal as the extension is crucial to their business and they have done enough to address noise/environmental concerns.

[shamrock7seal]

It's a shame that Southampton hasn't approved it. I still don't understand why the airport doesn't approach the issue differently, as a way of keeping it's existing operators planes fuller - this is an environmental benefit. If they avoid talking about 320's and 737's then the discussion becomes keeping existing business sustainable with an extension. I don't understand their thinking. Telling everyone they're going to attract more planes, louder planes, bigger planes is creating their own problems locally.

[shamrock7seal]

Good point Rivet Jet on the sou cruise terminal. Cruise/shipping in general is one of the worst polluters of carbon ever! Cruise industry is probably throwing money at the council. Double standards!!

[inOban]

Is the cruise industry throwing money at the council? I thought that the cruise industry existed offshore and famously didn't pay taxes anywhere. No fuel duty, no VAT, no social security levies, next to no corporation tax.

[shamrock7seal]

It's a manner of speaking. I don't mean literally. The associated infrastructure and businesses supporting cruise passengers must be massive in and around Southampton - I'm thinking hotels, shops, restaurants, transport, before and after their journey etc etc... it's more that the council have dollar signs in their vision when making decisions about a cruise terminal (ignoring pollution) but don't veiw SOU's runway in the same way (despite the lower emissions of aircraft versus cruise industry)

[Jamesair1]

What you say about cruise ships and pollution is certainly true in respect of most of the older ships but massive steps are being made to tackle this problem with most new build ships having much cleaner propulsion systems.

[southside bobby]

Planning decision delayed until 2021 (no date)...Southampton Airport to submit additional info...

[Rivet Joint]

inOban

It's worse than that, tax payer money is being used to build the new terminal. Whilst it looks like it is going to have shore power it is a bit ironic that the council are happy for a fifth cruise terminal and all its associated polution but not a small extension to its airport's runway.

Shamrock7seal: Good point, I guess the cruise industry does contribute more to the city. Surely any aspirational city requires a successful airport though. I guess it is indicative of the truly mad world we find ourselves in where double standards apparently don't exist.

Jamesair1: That is true but there is a brand new one in at the moment that has had smoke pouring out of it for a few days now. It seems the shipping industry is supported whereas aviation is blamed for everything. If it was supported better maybe there would be more investment in developing hydrogen/electric planes.

[RW20]

southside bobby

It is just going to go on and on ,and the longer it goes on then there will be more opposition,and less appetite for any airline to commit to SOU. The pressure of new needed housing will transmit to selling the airport land for development.

[Albert Hall]

Curious - Southampton has appeared in the drop-down menu on ba.com within the last few days. Anyone know what's afoot?

[SKOJB]

No idea but have seen rumours of a U.K. airport running a summer seasonal programme with BA Cityflyer!?

[scr1]

Loganair code share with BA Loganair fly to SOU

[adfly]

Pessimistic - BA codeshare on some existing routes - maybe Loganair/Blue Islands? But not sure how that would benefit BA, the only obvious connections being to Aer Lingus via DUB/MAN(assuming the latter goes ahead).
Optimistic - BA Cityflyer flying some weekend sun routes next summer as they have from other airports - ALC/AGP/PMI/FAO, possibly Greece too?
Up in the clouds - BA Cityflyer basing a few E170/190's flying a mix of European city and sun routes.

Regarding the second scenario, while they'll never be able to offer LCC fares, BACF are probably best placed for flying any longer routes at least off the current runway - their LCY spec (i.e. powerful) E-Jets manage LCY-JSI and similar non stop. Believe they are limited to ~75-80 seats or so, but the 200m runway advantage at SOU vs LCY would probably allow a full 98 passengers on their E190. In fact, I remember it being quoted that FlyLolo were limited to 97 seats on the Flybe E195 which would support this assumption.

Looking at the third it initially seems absurd, but business travel is predicted to recover very slowly BACF may find an excess of capacity at LCY, even accounting for the leisure routes that have grown in recent years there. Outside of SOU there are not many airports that do not have any significant LCC competition on the main european routes, and the runway length works in its favour in this sense to maintain this. In this purely hypothetical scenario, I can't see them not wanting a slice of the major domestic and Irish routes - EDI, GLA, BHD, DUB so it could spell bad news for the likes of Loganair and Eastern.

[LBIA]

BA City Flyer 11+ weekend routes from Southampton for summer 2021.

As reported on twitter: https://twitter.com/HeadForPoints/status/1336617753223041031?s=19
​​

Berlin – starts 2nd May, Sunday out, Friday back


Edinburgh – starts 16th May, Sunday out, Friday back


Bergerac – starts 15th May, weekends plus Tuesday in peak season


Faro – starts 1st May


Florence – starts 1st May


Ibiza – starts 2nd May


Limoges – starts 15th May


Malaga – starts 1st May


Mykonos – starts 16th May


Nice – starts 15th May


Palma – starts 1st May


https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/12/09/british-airways-opens-at-southampton-11-routes-coming/

[SWBKCB]

Great news for the airport - any ideas on how many a/c will be required each weekend?!?

[adfly]

Some very good news for SOU! The following seems to be bookable at the moment (some duplicate information from above...). All appear to be E190 operated, although some of the flight times seem a little lethargic for a jet (SOU-FAO is 3hrs!).

Berlin - out Sun/return Fri (positioning flight)
Bergerac - Tues/Sat/Sun
Faro - Sat
Florence - Sat/Sun
Edinburgh - out Sun/return Fri (positioning flight)
Ibiza - Sat/Sun
Limoges - Sat
Malaga - Sat/Sun
Mykonos - Sun
Nice - Sat
Palma - Sat/Sun

Looks like 3 aircraft needed Sat and 2 on Sun (the Edinburgh positioning flight departs in the morning).

[AirLCY]

looks like they’ve used LCY block times, should be at least 15 mins faster to/from SOU versus the odd routings in and out of LCY

[rog747]

Flybe's EMB 195 sat 118 pax so the JSI flights done for FlyLoLo were an awful payload penalty at 97 seats - and 1 or 2 flights still had to tech stop IIRC...

Someone mentioned above if an A321NEO can do TFS from SOU - answer is nope. Not even with the planned starter strip. The A321 has a higher risk of tail strike.
It can operate in/out of Skiathos but it will usually Tech stop on the way home.
An A320 maybe able to do SOU to Greece or the Canaries likely with a payload penalty of around 15-20 seats less.

The BACF program from SOU looks rather nice for summer 21.
Pray we have some normality back for our travel abroad to the Med by early summer, but if we don't then that lot will not happen in any quantity.

Needs around 3 aircraft both days -- unless W patterns are going to be happening>?
But W's on a SAT or a SUN originating at LCY are an issue with the LCY pm/am airport closures on those days.
So you cannot do LCY-JMK-SOU-JMK-LCY for instance.

The main major historical weekend charterer of BACF was Bar Head Travel in Scotland who did loads of holiday flights from GLA EDI and ABZ, but sadly they are not renewing their own BACF charter flight series for next summer after having to cancel all of their S20 programme.
This, I guess means BACF are going alone and having a stab at SOU...

The only other sunshine flights are with TUI packages to Palma on TUE and SATS (Volotea flying)
TUI cancelled the IBZ and MAH series.

[Auxtank]

A bit of good news for a change;
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/18931350.ba-unveils-plans-fly-southampton-european-cities/

[fanrailuk]

“...enhance British Airways’ UK regional network”

- from a city that is just 80 miles from London.

:rolleyes:

[SKOJB]

and re-engage with customers lost from the very same routes that were so popular with Flybe! 👍

[Irish Cream]

I’ve always thought this is a perfect airline for SOU

[BA318]

Indeed. It’s now SOU time to make them work and prove there is a market.

[RW20]

Great news for SOU,the runway extension strip becomes even less relevant,and in fact probably will not happen in today's world. Given that Covid 19 comes under control by next spring,then this move by BA could be SOU saviour.One note of caution will be WIzz announcement that they are starting a base at Bournemouth,which surely will be imminent!

[davidjohnson6]

I'm not sure how good this news really is for SOU. BACF will operate for max 6 months of the year, for 2 days per week. The aircraft and crew will not *really* be based at SOU - it's more akin to a night-stop, so BA are not making any significant commitment to SOU. It didn't matter at STN because BACF were a relatively small player in a very large market - there was plenty of effective clear commitment from Ryanair and Jet2
There is zero chance of BA restarting their SOU base from 15 years ago. I imagine the fees paid by BACF to SOU will be low, not much more than the cost to SOU to provide airport services - and certainly not enough to generate much for the "SOU long term investment" piggy-bank
SOU as a sizeable urban area which is very unlikely to ever have significant inbound seasonal tourism, needs airlines which operate to/from SOU at least 360 days of the year, not an opportunist skimming off the seasonal high-fat cream which will dissuade anybody from setting up a real SOU-centric non-transient operation

[Alteagod]

Well put and I believe they also doing VRN from BHD next Summer as well.

[Rivet Joint]

LBIA

And this is why it pays to be a glass half full person! :)

Well done to the management at SOU who have dealt with the demise of BE amazingly! :D

Apart from Stobart, who are in a very bad way currently, I make that now all the regional airlines in this country operating routes at SOU, indeed some have even been competing on routes. What other regional airport in the country, let alone during a global pandemic(!), can say that?

This news should not be underestimated, and leaves me with the following thoughts:

1. BACF have traditionally not strayed from their base at LCY, certainly not opening 11 new routes at a time! The fact they have chosen SOU for such an uncharacteristic move speaks volumes for SOU and its catchment. It further builds on the fact Volotea chose SOU as their first airport in the UK. These things speak volumes for SOU's potential.

2. The variety of routes is very encouraging and again speaks volumes of the confidence in SOU's potential. We have bucket and spade routes, regional French routes and even some city break routes like Berlin and Florence.

3. The fact that the frequencies are relatively low at this stage is irrelevant. The industry is obviously at a low point currently, so going all in with a base in these times is not going to happen. The possibility was someone coming along and testing the waters, and guess what, someone has. When times are better, a base could definitely be a possibility.

4. Seeing as pretty much all of the regional operators have now opened routes from SOU, I wonder if the runway extension was being built whether we would see the same urgency to open routes from the low cost carriers? As has long been discussed, their larger aircraft are not the right fit for SOU in its current state. In my opinion, we would see the same urgency, as if regional operators with their higher cost base are all very keen to have a piece of the pie, why would low cost operators with their low cost base not also see an opportunity to make money at SOU?

On the runway planning being delayed, lets hope this is not because of the BACF news, and perhaps what is going on behind the scenes with a new BE. I take comfort from the fact that it was previously delayed whilst SOU produced more reports on noise, so it could very well be true that they just need more time to produce something else to mitigate a particular concern. I suspect they will end up having to go down the appeal route, so the more stuff they collate to support their argument the better.

Lastly, although it is important to never mention anyone by name, and in turn feed the trolls if you like, I hope this latest bit of good new will give this thread some respite from their trolling and relentless negativity, but I will not hold my breath (indeed it looks like the usual suspects have already started). I would implore others to ignore their attempts at trolling though, if this thread is ever going to go back to a place of healthy debate which all other threads seem to be.

[_aax1]

Point 1 is rather incorrect, you saw this exact move by BACF to STN/MAN and to a lesser extent BHX and BRS. The BER aircraft rotation is the former STN positioning/destinations.

Either way great news for SOU.

[Irish Cream]

I for one think this will be a pre-curser to much more activity by BACF at SOU probably by autumn next year. Edinburgh should be increased in frequency at an appropriate time and with capacity to hand. It’s all up to us to support these new routes now.

If I were SOU management I’d be doing everything possible to sweeten BACF and keep them happy so that growth is forthcoming. I’m sure they’re already doing this and well done to them!

Does anyone know if the flights are being operated by ERJ-190’s or ERJ-170’s?

[BA318]

I believe it’s all E190. BACF only have 2 E170s left.

[SWBKCB]

davidjohnson6

In the current position, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush (or cash in the bank is worth more than the promise of cash in the future). These BACF weekend schedules have been rather nomadic, so doubt whether any one seriously thinking about a fulltime base would be put off.

We will need to see how quickly LCY recovers. There is at least the possibility that what at the moment is an exercise in keeping a/c earning rather than sitting on the ground might develop into something more substantial for SOU, and that's got to be worthwhile.

Changing the subject, presumably the Bergerac on the Tuesday is a 'W' from LCY?

[Albert Hall]

Well, that explains the appearance in the BA.com destinations menu right enough!

This is a good match. For Cityflyer, they find a weekend home for their aircraft outside LCY that doesn't involve a battle on price against Ryanair, Jet2, easyJet & others as the weekend operations at STN and MAN did. For SOU, they get the weekend leisure flying covered with a very credible carrier and even if that airline isn't paying much at SOU, the volume going through the airport and generating spend is good. The local perception of having BA flying from SOU is also a major boost and having these routes back on the map (and some new ones too) is a real plus.

I view it as good news in the most diabolical of times and I'm not inclined to agree with the views of those of a negative disposition towards it.

[Cuillin Hills]

Are they night stopping crews at SOU throughout the summer?

Sounds like an expensive overhead for a 100-seat aircraft with LCY and EDI based crews operating out of SOU.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Another potential benefit for SOU is that these flights should be pretty visible to BA's London customer base, perhaps more so than any flights operated by other carriers from SOU.
Head for points and other websites will be read by a lot of business travellers in the London area, so now they'll know that there are holiday flights from the airport down the road that they can spend and acquire Avios points on. This may entice a few more SW London passengers to drive down the M3 or jump on the train than may otherwise have been the case.

[GLCYZ]

Cuillin Hills

The EDI base was closed earlier this year. The previous MAN and STN weekend ops (plus GLA charters) saw crews night stopping so would imagine this will be the same. Remember that these aircraft only have four crew in total.

[MARKEYD]

Just a projection at what the departure board might look like over the summer period , pretty impressive have to say
Looks like 6 night stopping E 190 !!!
Just out of interest is there enough stands for this type of aircraft or would some have to parked at a different area of the airport


Friday

2050 EDI 190
2235 BER. 190

Saturday

190 IBZ 0645
190 PMI 0805
1045. EGC. 190 LIG 1130
1220. IBZ. 190. EGC 1420
1305 PMI. 319 PMI 1330 Volotoa
1310. PMI 190 FLR. 1440
1345. PMI 190. FAO. 1450
1355. AGP 190. AGP. 1505
1410 IBZ 190 NCE
1500. LIG 190
1715. JMK. 190
1800. EGC. 190
1940. FLR. 190
2030. NCE. 190
2125. FAO. 190

Sunday

190 FLR 0730
190. IBZ 0755
190. PMI 0800
190 EDI 0900
190 EGC 0915
190. JMK 1000
1230 FLR. 190. BER 1320
1335. PMI 190. AGP. 1420

[AvTom]

This is great news for SOU, but interestingly compared to previous route / airline launches at the airport from KLM, EasyJet and Volotea the reaction on social media is massive and I have seen numerous posts all over FB and Twitter from people who are not in the industry / interested in airliners etc sharing and commenting on the news. It's clear the value that the flag carrier has is huge and will likely generate demand in its own good. South Hampshire is the UK's 8th largest urban area and Hampshire has the largest economy in the UK outside of London/Surrey/Manchester/West Mids and could easily sustain demand, particularly with the high number of regular BA flyers in the area that would more than happily use the airport in comparison to places such as MAN, BRS and BHX.

[MARKEYD]

On a separate note it looks like Easy jet have pretty much binned the Geneva route for this winter, with the Saturday service gone in March now
With France wanting to keep the ski slopes closed it’s not really a surprise

[BOHEuropean]

Presumably four will use stands 2,3,4,5 and the other two would have to use stand 13 and 14 which would be problematic security/boarding wise. In the past SOU have parked Flybe/Aurigny ERJs on the taxiway behind stands 2,3,4,5 so maybe a repeat of that?

[SKOJB]

Stands 8-12 are big enough for E190 but not sure they have ever parked on these due to tail height obstacles lining up with ILS? Maybe some dispensation for this although unsure!

[stewyb]

Seen a Stobart E90 parked nose in on one of those stands before so is possible

[dixi188]

I think it was stand 10 or 11 that a Flybe E195 was parked nose out and the APU exhaust burnt the stand number sign on the lamp post.

[RW20]

Basically there are four stands that th e190 can use unristricted.The others could be possibly be used with nose out,although the ILS could be compromised ,something that the airport management overlooked many years ago.SOU is heavily restricted in stand aircraft size ,probably more then any other regional airport.

[SKOJB]

Shocking decision back then to sell off the Royal Mail site!

[LTNman]

https://www.anna.aero/2020/12/10/ba-cityflyer-adds-11-routes-from-southampton-strong-performance-likely/

[gkmeech]

if we ever get an A320 operator wanting to start an operation they are currently restricted to 3 at a time between stands 1 - 5 , as an A320 requires 1 1/2 stands, which is why they are planning to widen them, and re-designate them as stands 1 - 4. If that is done we can accommodate 4 A320 at a time.

[BAladdy]

Bergerac

BA2907 SOU 09:15 EGC 11:45 7
BA2909 SOU 14:20 EGC 16:50 6
BA2909 SOU 17:30 EGC 20:00 2

BA2908 EGC 10:15 SOU 10:45 6
BA2910 EGC 16:20 SOU 16:50 2
BA2910 EGC 17:30 SOU 18:00 6

Berlin

BA2937 SOU 13:20 BER 16:15 7
BA2938 BER 21:40 SOU 22:35 5

Edinburgh

BA2900 SOU 09:00 EDI 10:30 7
BA2939 EDI 19:15 SOU 20:50 5

Faro

BA2927 SOU 14:50 FAO 17:50 6
BA2928 FAO 18:40 SOU 21:25 6

Florence

BA2921 SOU 07:30 FLR 10:40 7
BA2921 SOU 14:40 FLR 17:50 6

BA2922 FLR 11:25 SOU 12:30 7
BA2922 FLR 18:35 SOU 19:40 6

Ibiza

BA2915 SOU 06:45 IBZ 10:10 6
BA2915 SOU 07:55 IBZ 11:20 7

BA2916 IBZ 10:55 SOU 12:20 6
BA2918 IBZ 12:45 SOU 14:10 6

Limoges

BA2911 SOU 11:30 LIG 13:55 6
BA2912 LIG 14:35 SOU 15:00 6

Malaga

BA2925 SOU 14:20 AGP 18:15 7
BA2925 SOU 15:05 AGP 19:00 6

BA2924 AGP 12:15 SOU 13:55 6

Mykonos

BA2933 SOU 10:00 JMK 15:50 7
BA2934 JMK 15:20 SOU 17:15 6

Nice

BA2931 SOU 15:45 NCE 18:50 6
BA2932 NCE 19:35 SOU 20:30 6

Palma

BA2903 SOU 08:00 PMI 11:25 7
BA2903 SOU 08:05 PMI 11:30 6

BA2902 PMI 11:45 SOU 13:10 6
BA2904 PMI 12:10 SOU 13:35 7
BA2904 PMI 12:20 SOU 13:45 6

[Cuillin Hills]

GLCYZ

It is still a considerable cost that EZY, RYR, EXS etc generally don’t have and is proportionate to the size of the aircraft - plus you need standby cover etc and there is also associated loss of efficiency of crews as they spend their working days (Friday pm, for example) positioning for Saturday earlies.

Taxi costs also add to the total bill.

Stansted was also considerably closer to London City than Southampton is.

Best wishes to SOU and CFE but all the above will hit the bottom line.

[nowhereasfiled]

The crews HOTAC costs will be covered by a return club fare to Mykonos by the look of the prices :}

[BOHEuropean]

I understand the need to operate aircraft in/out of Southampton through W-Pattern to save on positioning flights, but what is the rationale for operating only 1 inbound Malaga flight but with 2 outbound... and 2 outbound Palma but 3 inbound. How will half of the passengers get back from Malaga?

[The Nutts Mutts]

That's a very good point!

Perhaps there will be tweaks made to the schedule nearer the time.

[Dropoffcharge]

Great news for SOU that they've picked up some extra routes for S21, something quite positive after the extension decision delay etc. I can see France doing really well, not so confident initially on a few of the others but time will tell I guess, price will be key, good to see a BA presence returning.

[RJ100]

It will all be E190 as the !70's will have left the fleet by then. One 170 will go in Dec and the other possibly Jan.

[AirLCY]

6 replacement E190’s will have been delivered by summer G-LCAC-H, 4 already delivered to NWI and parked

[SKOJB]

Surprised the popular routes of CDG and ALC have not reappeared as yet although BACF don’t operate these from LCY either, any other carriers that would be interested?

[davidjohnson6]

Would Air Nostrum consider sending a CRJ 900 or 1000 from Alicante to Southampton ? Would a CRJ have payload issues with SOU's runway ?
Or is Ryanair's route from Bournemouth to Alicante too strong a competitor ?

[TCAS FAN]

It was never their's (BAA) in the first place. Gazeley Developments bought the whole airport site off Nat Somers, BAA then bought the current site and the still undeveloped NE corner, deciding that they didn't need the site that Royal Mail sorting office was built on. It was then all downhill with future deveopment opportunities, including the nonsensical decision made by their then MD to (against all operations staff advice) build the short term car park right up to the boundary fence, rather than leave room to extend Stands 7-12 to permit nose-in jet parking.

[Dropoffcharge]

I'd say no stronger than the Faro, Malaga and Palma routes BACF are going to be competing against RYN on. CDG and AMS would be good routes to add by another carrier.

[Wycombe]

KLM will be back on AMS in Feb I think, unless there's been a change I'm not aware of.

[The Nutts Mutts]

I've just been looking at the BA flights with a view to booking a family week in Ibiza next summer during the school holidays. Unfortunately, as we can only fly out on a Sunday we'd have to come back the following Saturday as there is no Sunday inbound flight from IBZ to SOU.

It all looks a bit confusing at this stage, with one outbound IBZ flight on a Saturday and two inbound, and then an outbound flight on Sunday but no inbound. Same with JMK, you have to fly out on Sunday but return the following Saturday, so if you fly from SOU you're limited to a six day holiday - I'd imagine this might put some people off and make them book a standard seven day trip from another airport.

Is there anyone with BACF knowledge out there who has any idea whether further flights will be added at a later date to fill in the schedule?

[pamann]

BA/CF aircraft effectively return to LCY on the Sunday via various destinations, this is why there are an imbalance of rotations/frequencies.

For instance LCY is closed for 24 hours over the weekend. It closes midday Saturday, opening midday Sunday. The aircraft leaves LCY Saturday for JMK and operates inbound to SOU. It will then stay at SOU operating a rotation or two before returning to JMK Sunday morning where it’ll return to LCY.

Same happens with IBZ on the Sunday, but the aircraft may not come from IBZ On the Friday/Saturday, possibly a different destination. This is how you get an extra outbound but no return;

Saturday;

LCY - XXX - SOU

SOU - XXX - SOU

Sunday;

SOU - IBZ - LCY

Hope the above makes sense.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Thanks for the explanation. It seems a little churlish to be complaining about the BACF operation already given that it's a great boost for SOU, but it's a bit of a pain that the schedule is so imbalanced due to all of the position flights and W-patterns. It certainly makes booking a holiday a little more complicated!

[BAeuro]

I do appreciate the misaligned days aren’t ideal, but BACF have done a better job at SOU than previous attempts.

For IBZ, yes the outbounds are Sat/Sun and inbounds Sat(x2), but that still allows a nice Sat-Sat holiday. You could argue the Sunday flight is an extra bonus.

The route where I see the biggest issue is JMK. Passengers will have to do 6 or 13 nights which isn’t ideal. I don’t envisage this route will do particularly well.

[nowhereasfiled]

While the schedule isn’t exactly ideal, I will put money on the people complaining about it and booking a 7 day Greek holiday from LGW instead of 6 from SOU will be the first to moan when BACF pull out or don’t return in S22 due to lack of demand.

[Jenny Tails]

Crazy that anyone is complaining about frequencies. In the current climate anything is gold.

[SKOJB]

Spot on, I think SOU have done a great job in attracting BA in this current climate and their departures board is already shaping up to look better than many other regionals. Let’s just wait and look forward to this summer hopefully getting back to some sort of normality with decent loads on these new routes!

[Wycombe]

The route where I see the biggest issue is JMK

Mykonos is mainly a young persons destination. If I take my own early twenties offsping as an example they won't be too bothered if it's a 6 or 7 day holiday.

[uptoncol]

Exactly a 6 or 13 night holiday is a 100 % more than what most have had this year .
We should all be grateful for what is being offered from our local airport ,rather than being ungrateful for what is not being offered .

[davidjohnson6]

Will hotels and villa rentals provide the same per-night rate on a 6 night stay as a 7 night stay ?

[pamann]

We are in the 2020’s.You can book any duration you like on most of the suppliers. Most of Mykonos is small hotels, B&B’s, the villa market on the island is minuscule compared to other places.

I actually think the 13 night option is great if you want to do some island hopping with some great islands within easy reach of Mykonos.

[adfly]

easyJet flights are now on sale for next winter. GVA-SOU is bookable again Dec-Mar 3x weekly (Thurs/Sat/Sun).

[adfly]

Aurigny clearly want a larger slice of the Guernsey - Southampton route. I believe it is the only route that has been increased compared to what was planned for S20. It is now due to be 3 daily every day (21 weekly) next summer. Alderney is not on sale yet though.

With Blue Islands offering 29 weekly flights that means 7 flights every day, and 8 on a Friday. I expect it may overtake Gatwick as the busiest UK route from Guernsey, as that has been cut back to 28 weekly.

[stewyb]

Let’s wait and see. With the current climate as is, this timetable will know doubt change throughout the next few months and will adjust according to how we are dealing with a pandemic exit and supplier demand that follows. In the meantime it’s nice to see route confidence

[Buster the Bear]

How on earth you are going to administer 100 million vaccinations before the commencement of the summer season? I agree with stewyb.

[shamrock7seal]

Since Ryanairs announcement that they are doing BOH-EGC, BACF have finally reduced their fares on their own SOU-EGC route. Will be interesting to see how this plays out given that the sort of people heading to EGC are affluent and probably want avios points over the horrendous experience that is Ryanair.

[SKOJB]

many who travel from the region are to their second homes down in the Dordogne etc. Quick check shows return fares midweek in August for BA is £140 v Ryanair £188

[The Nutts Mutts]

BA started running a sale on Thursday, could that explain the drop in prices you're seeing?

[SKOJB]

Pricing certainly seems to have been adjusted to become very competitive

[adfly]

Alderney is now on sale for S21, 14 weekly flights bookable all summer.

[adfly]

KLM start date now pushed back to 1st March. 1 daily E175 initially.

Eastern to Dublin now pushed back to 28th March. Still planned for 12 weekly AT7 for now.

Leeds Bradford and Manchester resumptions now 15th Feb. Teesside 29th March, although a Sunday flight via Belfast is bookable before then.

Manchester frequency dropped from 16 to 11 weekly for the summer, with just morning and evening flights now. Schedules still require 3 based AT7, all rather sparingly utilised...

[SKOJB]

Manchester now going x 2 daily tells its own story with regards to reduced business demand and can be said across the entire domestic network. Doubt we will ever get back to pre pandemic levels of business movement as a new way for UK plc working remotely has become the norm. With regards to SOU, this reduction makes it even more essential that they get the runway extension in place soonest in order that leisure travel to sun and city destinations can take up some of the slack that will undoubtedly be back in vogue once we are out of this crisis!

[SWBKCB]

With respect, this is speculation - we don't know what the situation will be if/when restictions are eased.

[SKOJB]

A new way of working is already being discussed in the corridors of all major companies up and down the land, including my own. As a way of reducing financial overheads, be that in the reduction of office space, removing unnecessary travel expenditure, employers carbon footprint and employee wellbeing, I think it’s safe to say we will never be going back fully to the rigid office 9-5 with all meetings being carried out face to face with clients based across the country. This therefore, in my eyes at least will have an adverse effect on business demand within our domestic air network!

[Rivet Joint]

Whilst I agree what you say is true, I suspect the changes won’t be as radical as they envisage. I think a lot of people have found working from home quite difficult, as it brings its own challenges which make the commute not as bad as once thought. Productivity at home is a lot less than in a workplace, and video calls are a pain and no substitute to meeting face to face. I also think the social aspect of being able to interact with colleagues in a workplace is much more appealing than working from home. I suspect the 9-5 will stay, but with agile working arrangements adopted, staff will be able to work designated days at home. This will help employers reduce their office space as desks can be shared. Domestic travel will return but frequencies might not recover to same levels. This is fine if a low cost operator comes along and does a morning and evening MAN rotation for example, rather than BEs 4/5 daily rotations of the past. Of course like a previous poster has said the runway Extension is absolutely key to facilitating survival going forward in these new times.

[GAXLN]

I see the Lufthansa UK website is offering Southampton as a recognised airport and also, although none available, is an origin point for special fare offers. Something brewing?

[davidjohnson6]

Bristol, East Midlands, Gatwick and Stansted (none of which currently have regular flights with Lufthansa) seem to be treated similiarly by the Lufthansa website as Southampton

[adfly]

A hangover from old BMI Regional codeshare flights and dropped Lufthansa routes?

[SKOJB]

Drop down menu of flight offers for 2021 on their website has SOU included within only those active U.K. airports operating with Lufthansa, may be something in it?

[The Nutts Mutts]

GAXLN

I guess the relevant question here is whether SOU has been left on the Lufthansa website ever since the BMI Regional to Munich days, or if it's recently re-appeared?
If the latter, then that would be a lot more interesting.

[SKOJB]

Seems interesting that the airport is showing in 2021 offers!

[The Nutts Mutts]

It didn't for me, nor did BRS. I was looking on mobile though so I could have been looking at a different area of the site.

EDIT: Sorry, I've looked again and you're right. All of Lufty's current UK airports appear in a drop down menu in the 2021 holidays feature on the homepage, along with BRS and SOU. Those two currently unserved airports don't have any specific destinations showing when you select them, whereas a list of suggested holiday destinations appears if you choose one of the other airports.

[SKOJB]

BRS was scheduled to commence earlier last year but was suspended, think Munich and Frankfurt have been flown before from SOU with BA Connect & BMI regional

[fanrailuk]

More than likely an overnight year date change glitch...maybe?

Can’t see them committing to such routes after all the cuts they’ve made in staffing and aircraft levels.

[Auxtank]

Let's see.
What with the RWY extension hanging in the balance there are a couple of big movers taking seats at the table and gently asking if they can be dealt in.
Interesting times. . .
Nothing's on paper yet but. . .intersting times for old Beastly Eastleigh Airport.

[EI-BUD]

I'd not be surprised if Lufthansa group added Southampton Berlin in due course, given easyJet were going to and now Lufthansa are planning sizeable enough operation at the new airport, it's conceivable.

[The Nutts Mutts]

The Isle of Man thread is saying that Loganair will be setting up a three aircraft base there for summer 2021. SOU is reported as being one of the new routes, among others. Nothing on the Loganair website yet though. Good news, it'll be nice to see another new destination on the departure boards.

[ATNotts]

EI-BUD

I really don't see BER being operated by LH to anywhere in the UK outside of London. It's not a business destination in the same way FRA and MUC are, and isn't a major hub for LH. It is still essentially a weekend break destination, though I really don't understand why; there are many other German cities I'd much rather visit ahead of Berlin, but each to their own.

[virginblue]

EI-BUD

Lufthansa group has a tiny operation at BER. Lufthansa proper only serves its hubs at MUC and FRA, Euowings is focused on three domestic routes, PMI and some ethnic routes. This despite Berlin's status as the nation's capital and Eurowings operating sizeable bases at DUS, STR, CGN etc. So I'd say SOU will happen when hell freezes over...

[stewyb]

The airport is building back up a nice departures board with IOM being added and rumours of Lufthansa to Munich. Only obvious routes missing are CDG and ALC of those being popular prior to BE’s demise. No airport is faring well in the current climate yet SOU should see a decent recovery once life starts to return to some normality!

[The Nutts Mutts]

Have you heard the LH MUC rumour from somewhere else apart from here then? The discussion on here was around BER.

[stewyb]

only further up this thread which mentioned SOU was now showing on Lufthansa’s 2021 flight offers, although currently without a destination. My guess would be MUC if any

[Buster the Bear]

A passenger feed for the cruise departures from Southampton would make sense. Are the operators of cruise liners and airlines that joined up in their thinking?

[SKOJB]

TUI are using BA’s Faro Saturday flights for some of their holidays this summer

[RW20]

Although the above is perfectly reasonable,the reality is that Summer 2021 is a non starter,this is a great shame considering that BA chose SOU for Summer operations of there city fleet.The rapidly mutating virus is set to challenge the world for some time,and as such flying is going to be severely curtailed for this year at least. Regional airports like SOU will struggle to survive,and some I'm sure will not be operational in the next couple of years. The world is under threat with covid,and many airlines and airports will suffer.

[Albert Hall]

Crumbs, you’re a barrel of fun!

I think the BACF flying will do OK this year and sufficiently well to warrant a return for a far stronger year in 2022.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Isle of Man flights now bookable with Loganair, 3x weekly (Tue, Thur, Sat) on an ATR72 from the 1st of June. Looks like a late morning arrival and lunchtime departure.

[Buster the Bear]

Fares not extortionate either.

[JSCL]

I'm not too convinced by a market in SOU for IOM. I know a big part of the assessment for the route viability on the IOM side has been at a target of the cruise market in particular. With that showing little to no signs of recovery in the next 12 months, I'm not too sure this is the year for IOM-SOU. Then again, SOU seems to be the fastest growing airport in the UK in terms of new routes these days.

[zantopst]

More good news for Southampton is that Jetworks appear to be relocating from BOH to Southampton. They are using hangar 1 (known locally as the Somers hangar) which normally just houses resident Da900 VP-BPW. First arrival was G-SMHA DA7x yesterday so excellent news to get an established Maintenance firm on site and get some use for that wasted hangar space!

[The Nutts Mutts]

Now that is excellent news. New routes aside, one of SOU's disadvantages in recent years has been its lack of diversified business. Having a based maintenance organisation is really positive and something that the airport hasn't had for at least ten years. The Somers hangar is large and occupies prime real estate, so it's great to finally see it provide more value to the airport than housing a single Falcon.

Is this definitely a relocation or are they opening an additional site at SOU?
Does this mean that Somers are vacating the hangar or will V-PW remain based there?

[zantopst]

It’s a relocation off the operation to Southampton. Not sure about Somers vacating the hangar but I suspect V-PW will remain based as it was already maintained by Jetworks.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Thanks for the reply!

[SKOJB]

BACF pricing seems very competitive if the PMI route is anything to go by. Adult return selling for £270 mid August compared to £380 with RYR from BOH on same dates, know who I would rather fly with!

[horatio_b]

Ryanair flight BOH>PMI departing Fri 13/8 and returning Fri 20/8 is showing as £60/£71 = £131 return

[MARKEYD]

To be fair and I am not a BOH v SOU never have been it’s a ridiculous scenario to get into as both airports complement each other , but I do think you you have to be careful regarding fare comparisons, as we all no they change by the hour

An example tonight
14th Aug to 21st Aug.
Palma no baggage, 1 person

SOU with BA city flyer £ 231
BOH with FR £ 221

[Buster the Bear]

Both are way below what the fares would normally be. August is a month that families get massively ripped off, or did. Do the comparison in a couple of months time, for the same flights, the comparison will be interesting.

I still think that the major issue for travel next summer will be a worldwide standard for a vaccine passport. No way will counties permit entry without double vaccine proof. I hope the airlines, in fact all modes of international transportation come together on a single format.

[adfly]

With the recent announcement of BA's return to Southampton, that has left me wondering how big an operation BA once had at SOU, and also where they flew. Found an old timetable for W01/02 (not sure if printed pre or post 9/11 though) which must've been near the peak as they had quite a large operation there. I understand from 2003 onwards BA started to cut down their regional operation, before of course flogging what was left off to Flybe in 2006.

For W01/02 it appears they had 4x E145 based (I think these are the only type they used to base in SOU, flight times look right for a jet...) flying the following:

BHD - 1x weekly (Sat)
BRU - 11x weekly
DUB - 17 weekly
EDI - 23 weekly
FRA - 6 weekly
GLA - 23 weekly
JER - 5 weekly (Mon-Fri)

On top of this there was also:

ABZ - 13 weekly (via NCL/LBA)
BHD - 11 weekly DH3? (12 weekly total)
JER - 30 weekly AT7 (35 weekly total)
LBA - 16 weekly J41
MAN - 16 weekly ATP?
NCL - 13 weekly DH3

All in all up to 30 departures on some weekdays. ​​​​​In comparison, some little regional airline called 'British European' could only fly you to Guernsey up to 5 times a day during the same period!

[uptoncol]

I see all the Volotea’s 717’s have left their fleet now ,
If the holidays do get started later this year ,I wonder if the 319’s will operate this flight but with reduced loads ?
cheers col

[stewyb]

319’s were used in the earlier days of ops from SOU, however rumour is BACF are taking over this summers charter service for TUI and dropping to Sat departure only to PMI!

[uptoncol]

I did wonder that ,as I had heard when the 319 was used on several occasions, some luggage was left behind because of the weight restrictions.

[RW20]

stewyb

Let's all be realistic!,Summer 2021 will be very limited with restrictions across the board. So BA operation from SOU will be very limited at best ,indeed the heralded return may be short lived.The aviation industry will be radically changed over the next couple of years ,Key airports in the UK will survive with government support,but some will close, SOU future must surely be in question,especially as the land at the airport must be worth a fortune to the owners. As for the runway extension application,this must now be a total non starter, becoming more irrelevant as the covid crisis continues and effects the aviation industry

[Rivet Joint]

SKOJB

Brilliant news that the fairs are competitive! also great news about the IOM route and the maintenance company moving from BOH. I have always thought that SOU could accommodate more private aircraft with its wealthy catchment. The plan has always been for the maintenance and business flights to relocate to the land on the north east. Maybe SOU could attract one of the big private jet companies to open up a base on that land and take some of FAB’s traffic.

I also wanted to generally comment about the much more positive posts that are appearing on this thread. It’s great to see and let’s hope it continues. We all know that one strange individual seems to have an agenda against SOU and if we could continue to ignore him hopefully he will go away. Being positive is clearly paying off for the management at SOU with all the good news lately.

[pabely]

Rivet Joint

Doesn't the Signature FBO already cover any demand?

[The Nutts Mutts]

Kind of but not quite- Signature regularly have to turn down potential business due to space available/bookings already made.
Another FBO would find enough make to make them viable IMHO, although the recent Jetworks news is probably the best scenario- more based bizjets and movements but not competing directly with Signature as they're offering different services not currently available at the airport.
An FBO serving G/A and light bizjets/props would definitely be welcome though- there's huge demand for these flights in the area and at SOU, but they're priced out by Signature's handling fees and airfield ops don't have the resources or space to handle them on a regular basis. This sort of business would do well at SOU and may pick up some work from Bournemouth, Lee on Solent etc.

[Sharklet_321]

Great news that BA Cityflyer is now teaming up with Loganair to sell UK domestic flights from Southampton! This could be the first step in the airline actually providing some of their own capacity in the future on these routes possibly....

[globetrotter79]

Is this cityflyer adding a code and selling Loganair flights, is it a BA code being added to Loganair flights (i.e. driven by BA themselves rather than cityflyer)...or is it simply a Loganair codeshare onto the cityflyer-operated Edinburgh-Southampton/vv glorified positioning legs in summer?

[adfly]

The airport's social media pages suggest that BA are putting a codeshare on the Loganair routes to Edinburgh, Glasgow and Newcastle.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1156/screenshot_20210118_151239_b6eba9807fd8b3eebebd705d43131f9f5 85f8dc9.jpg

[Dropoffcharge]

I would hazard a guess at the main reason why Jetworks are moving from BOH to SOU is due to the competition from GAMA now being on the doorstep.

[Buster the Bear]

Confirmed.

https://www.air101.co.uk/2021/01/british-airways-and-loganair-codeshare.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+co/fMxO+(Air101)

[Rivet Joint]

pabely

True but as Nutts Mutts has said they do seem to be constantly turning down business. I have witnessed a number of times a business flight landing whilst one is having to leave. I suspect apron space is very limited currently. The supposed move to the north east land would presumably provide more apron space, which the rich catchment could clearly fill. I also wondered whether SOU could approach one of the OEMs such as bombardier, Cessna etc to open up a maintenance base on that land, but they may already have such operations at the London airports. There cannot be much development land in the country with access to a runway. It would be a shame if it is just handed over for more industrial storage sheds that have no aviation connection.

[stewyb]

Any additional traffic outside of scheduled movements will be very difficult to accommodate, bad enough now trying to gain planning for increased core business. Hence don’t foresee the north east side of airport being redeveloped any time soon, especially for anything aviation related!

[fanrailuk]

Eastern Airways to launch 2 new routes from Southampton:

Rennes - begins 29 April 2021 operating on Tuesdays, Thursdays & Sundays
Nantes - begins 30 April 2021 operating on Mondays, Wednesdays & Fridays

Flights operated on ATR72-600 aircraft

Credit to Sean M 1997 on social media

[Rivet Joint]

stewyb

Unfortunately you are probably right. I still find it a scandal that the ford factory was turned over to some large sheds with a skeleton workforce of low skilled workers. Meanwhile in Wales and eastern europe car manufacturers are given tax payers money to open factories. You would like to think the Council would not want to make the same mistake with the airport's north east land, which could attract high skilled maintenance and design jobs. As we have seen with the runway extension though, the environment seems to outrank job creation which in global recession is quite insane.

Good news T3 have picked up some French routes. It does seem to be a constant stream of good news at SOU, if only the same positivity was present at the local authorites!

[stewyb]

Rivet - revised planning app went live today. Airport picking up some decent routes again with more to follow, all they need now is some passengers!

[RW20]

It's amazing that some contributors to this post continue to get excited about new routes and carriers who might come to SOU.The cold facts are that there will be little or no Sun routes this year,and indeed any so called second homes routes.Europe will like the UK struggle to contain the existing virus and will probably have to constrain many new mutants.BA much published Southampton return will surely be curtailed,KLM will not return for the forseable future,Easy winter operation might be active for 2021/2022 Winter.This leaves a restricted UK operation,something I can't see the airport surviving on .As for the runway extension,the farcical situation continues to roll on,bearing in mind it was 2019 that application was made! EBC need to confirm that this is not going to happen in the present covid climate,and allow some of the over speculative contributors to this post to get on with the life

[davidjohnson6]

If SOU airport is in any really serious danger of filing for bankruptcy AND not being able to reopen under some kind of debt restructuring / bankruptcy process, then it's likely Govt cash will be found from somewhere - be that Eastleigh, Southampton, Hampshire or Westminster, along with a bit of cash perhaps from major employers in the area. SOU will still be a functioning airport in 5 years time; the question is which passenger services will remain and who will own the airport

[The Nutts Mutts]

RW20

Top trolling, well done. I hope it makes you happy.

Move along, nothing to see here...

[Rivet Joint]

Well said. As I keep saying if you ignore a troll it will go away after a while. Constructive criticism is fine, but clearly there is an agenda here or a screw lose. The same message posted frequently for well over a year? Are there any mods on here? Surely a ban is in order by now.

[darren1]

Unfortunately ignoring the troll hasn’t made it disappear. Such a sad individual.

[rog747]

Emperors new clothes?

Whilst SOU is one of my local airports and I support flying from there where I can, one cannot sugar coat the facts anymore clearly as rounded up by the post of RW20 which has attracted some rather silly commentary.
We are grown ups here, and I do get it that when one gets excited when new SOU routes get announced and plenty of ''oohing & ahhing'' but please do step back and have a reality check.
To mention there is nothing to see here is simply daft.

SOU's and EXT's bosses have both openly said their airports are in danger of closing. We don't want that, but they cannot ignore that.

The announcement of BA's summer SOU programme was a joy to see, truly uplifting for the Industry, but - I too have to concur, I cannot foresee Summer 2021 leisure routes operating with any certainty, if at all.
This applies not just to SOU but to everywhere else - BOH, BRS, EXT etc...
We will be fortunate if we can all get a Staycation - should UK restrictions allow us.

KLM will come back once they can, and when we can all travel again.
Easy jet hopefully too - We hope for the next winter's Ski season, the demand is huge, but who knows for sure at this time if we will fly.
BA sunshine routes - Again we know the public demand is there. If plenty of advance bookings are made then BA has cash in the bank.
Loganair and Eastern - even Flybe2 if they start - they will have to try and get by with small pickings on some feeder routes for now.

Reality check folks -
Basically almost all air travel (both Business & leisure) and the Package holiday business has been lost for nearly 12 months up to now.
No bumper bookings for Easter or Whitsun 2020, Very little Summer 2020. No Winter Sun 2020-2021, and No 2020-2021 Ski season.
Now it's looking like no Easter and Whitsun 2021 - and as for Summer 2021 we have not a clue as yet.
How any airline or tour company can survive this much longer surely beggars belief.
I was in this business as many of you know from the early days of 1972, and I, knowing what margins we had to cover costs, let alone make any money -
I cannot see a lot of blue skies right now....

Let's not be mean to each other please - Frankly don't shoot down a messenger who frankly has just faced the hard reality of the mess we are in.

[Flitefone]

ROG makes good points - Here’s the latest Eurocontrol summary and forecast for 2021 A global view - its worth a read:

https://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/default/files/2021-01/covid19-eurocontrol-comprehensive-air-traffic-assessment-28012021.pdf

[kcockayne]

Well summed up rog747. I have no issue with any of the contributors on this thread, & am somewhat mystified by the amount of criticism flying to & fro between certain individuals. Everyone has valid viewpoints (sometimes over emphasised, maybe) & less valid ones, too; & all contributions are of interest to me. In short, I don't quite understand the degree of personal antipathy which is , sometimes, evident here.

[zantopst]

‘EBC need to confirm that this is not going to happen in the present covid climate,and allow some of the over speculative contributors to this post to get on with the life’

i agree about need for balanced realistic comments as we are very much in hard times and flying passengers for leisure or business could well be very restricted all year, but the above statement by the individual that seems to cause most annoyance on a forum that is for aviation professionals and people very much interested in that seems very strange to actually be demanding the council turn down the runway application. Surely if there ever was a time for that runway extension it is now to help drive route regeneration once all this hopefully is past us.

[SWBKCB]

EBC need to follow due process and the established guidlines or they'll end up on their backsides...

[SKOJB]

Before Xmas, EBC requested that the airport go away and refine the application, of which they have done and submitted again this week!

[davidjohnson6]

I'm rather cynical about suggestions that SOU or EXT might close forever as airports. Places like Lydd, Cambridge, Norwich, Coventry, Blackpool Humberside, Teesside, Swansea, Prestwick, Dundee, Derry and others seem to carry on somehow

Perhaps a debt restructuring event might see the current owner lose their ownership to creditors. Perhaps the airport might close for a month while the airport under new ownership is relicenced by the CAA. But would SOU or EXT airports really close permanently with the consent of local and national Govt ? Seems dubious...

[RW20]

kcockayne

At last some contributors have a more rational approach to the Covid/aviation crisis. There are some on this SOU blog that continue to remain blinkered to reality,resulting in Personal attacks which dilute there argument. Southampton future at best is precarious ,I hope it survives having been following its progress from pre concrete days.
These are challenging times,may be some airports won't survive,aviation will never return to the recent past

[Rivet Joint]

rog747

I think you need to read my post again as I clearly said “constructive criticism” is welcome. The issue with this individual is that he has been essentially copying and pasting the same negative post for more than a year now and there is more than enough grounds to suggest that the posts are not intended to engage or further debate. They are mean spirited statements mocking people for daring to have positive outlooks on life with the intention to antagonise rather than contribute to healthy debate. This behaviour is the epitome of trolling and results in forums losing all of its best posters and therefore I think it is more than justified for mods to ban individuals who engage in this behaviour. If not then such forums cease to exist.

With all issues you need to look at the source of the problem, for you to ignore the fact people understandably have good grounds to have lost patience with this Individuals destructive impact on this thread is very strange indeed. People have tried to ignore it for many months as most normal humans would give up trying to antagonise people after not succeeding but this individual is clearly very troubled or there is an agenda against SOU. I can only assume that you do not appreciate the long standing nature of this individuals behaviour and the fact that his posts are cut and paste jobs. Are you suggesting he is right that the airport is doomed and should be closed down and turned into housing? Should all us just subscribe to his way of thinking and stop posting on the thread? People should lead a glass half full life at the best of times, let alone in the times that we find ourselves in. For you to take the view that you should target the positive contributors on here rather than the troll is quite astounding and personally I think you should take a look at yourself in the mirror. If people on here we’re suggesting pie in the sky stuff like routes to America or a runway to accommodate the A380 yes perhaps a reality check might be required. However, all the comments are well reasoned and justified off the back of a large stream of good news.

On the Covid position, is there really any need to mention it? Should positive news really need to be negated by it? Should positive thoughts by posters really be tempered by its existence? We all know it exists, we all know it is sticking around for a while yet, we all know plans are subject to change. Despite all this the fact so many operators want to open routes at SOU and the airport still want to invest £15m is cause for celebration and positive discussion.

[yeo valley]

With Southampton port the top cruise port in Europe it makes no sense to have a airport with short runway and lack of terminal space.The airport and port should go hand in hand to offer the best service,and with the airport with the upgraded infrastructure it would attract airlines from much further afield and passengers would use the airfield as not far from airport to the port.

[Asturias56]

the problem Yeo is where do you put such an airport? The current airport is surrounded by housing & development on 3 sides. There is space for a very short runway extension and even that is under threat from objectors

[PinOnTheRight]

yeo valley

Top cruise port based on what? Passenger numbers wise, it ranks 6th in Europe.

[Kestrel]

BACF will have approx 6 acft flying ex SOU, SAT/SUN...High yield to be had from the relatively affluent area too, good move

[Buster the Bear]

Assuming the slow and gradual release of restrictions plus the slow progress of vaccinations in Europe permits European travel.

A double dose of vaccine, still means you can carry Covid abroad. The Brits may be vaxed up, but the Europeans, maybe not.

Add in any mutations........

Summer 2021 should be treated with caution.

[richardwpprn]

Kestrel

In summer peak there’s also EGC-SOU-EGC on a Tuesday.

[rog747]

From the Echo - Airport bosses have confirmed that from February 6 to March 7 all weekend operations including flights will be suspended.

It comes as during this period the airport will only open Monday to Friday until 17.15 or 20.30 on some days.

Airport bosses said "this is an extremely challenging period".

The news comes as new documents revealed at the end of last week airport bosses stressed the need to expand the runway in order to attract new airlines in the future, prior to the onset of the pandemic, passenger numbers at the airport fell by 90% due to the collapse of Flybe. Now COVID-19 has exacerbated this situation further with the suspension of routes and reduced passenger demand due to the travel restrictions in place. This is an extremely challenging period for the entire aviation industry."

Reported that apparently any emergency medical flights from the C.Is will use RAF Odiham during weekends this month.

[SealinkBF]

fanrailuk

Half expecting a similar announcement from Loganair 😂

[TCAS FAN]

rog747

Hopefully arrangements will include transfer to hospitals close to Odiham, rather than a long road journey to Southampton. Has anyone at SOU looked at the innovative method used by Bournemouth to handle out of hours medevac flights? Rather than the expense of ATC they provide an Air/Ground service to accomodate arrivals/departures. Plenty of local volunteers out there with the required ROCC to provide an A/G service and can role up at short notice to assist, I'll even volunteer.

[TCAS FAN]

We are presumably talking about Bournemouth. If so could be various reasons, radar (ie provided by a separate ATCO) probably not provided but ATC still provided by a single ATCO in the tower providing Aerodrome and Approach control. Don’t confuse this with non ATC Air/Ground service. As for a circling approach, if inbound from the east (?) flew 26 approach to break cloud then visual circuit to land 08 if the tailwind on 26 above limits? Probably saving a few minutes flying time over flying a full 08 instrument approach procedure from overhead.

[The Nutts Mutts]

There's some chat on Twitter saying that an Eastern route to Gibraltar could be announced imminently. Apparently Eastern are basing an E170 in Gib for Summer 21 with flights to BHX and SOU rumoured. I reckon they'll be announced tomorrow. Gibraltar is now on the airport's website and route map as a destination but with no days of operation showing yet.
Credit to SeanM1997 on twitter for the initial info.

[AirLCY]

Won’t last long with Easterns reliability

[adfly]

The Nutts Mutts

I saw on comment on the airports spotter/nostalgia fb page about how the two regional france routes launched last week seemed like a too sensible decision for Eastern. I can only assume someone from the company read the same thing and decided that a spectacular return to form was needed! :}

On a more serious note, while I'm not sure an E170 is a particularly economical aircraft for the job, in light of the current situation I think I can see some sense in the route. With all the uncertainty about borders, vaccines and the like, Gibraltar is could be in a very good position to attract more British visitors than usual this summer. No border woes, and over 1/3 of their population vaccinated already. Perhaps the local govt have offered some incentives for Eastern to fly some routes from there to capitalise on this, which might make the aircraft choice seem more viable? It has been noted that Birmingham has also reappeared in the booking engine, which is also currently unserved from the rock...

[AirUK]

What do you mean by no border woes?

[PDXCWL45]

Gibraltar is joining Schengen

[Asturias56]

You have to pass Schengen controls on arrival at Gib rather than at the actual border crossing

[The Nutts Mutts]

SOU-GIB is now announced and on sale. Flights on a Monday and Friday, Embraer 190. Interestingly, the aircraft will be operating from SOU in the morning, doing a W-pattern to BHX during the day, then returning to SOU at night. So there's potentially an E190 being based for the summer, unless it's positioning in on the GIB days.

[SWBKCB]

Which begs the question what does it do the other 5 days a week!

[The Nutts Mutts]

I wouldn't be surprised to see ALC appearing at some point.

[Rivet Joint]

The Nutts Mutts

Glad to see the good news train keep rolling :ok:

[adfly]

The airports press release seems to confirm that Eastern are basing an E190 at Southampton. Hopefully they'll be able to recruit some ex.Flybe Embraer crew locally for it.

“This is also a new destination for the airport and a positive step forward given the challenging conditions our entire industry continues to face. We look forward to working with Eastern to develop this service further and welcoming the first passengers later this year and indeed the basing of an Eastern Airways’ Embraer 190 aircraft to make this route and others possible.”

I wonder where else they'll look at? Alicante seems like the most obvious omission, along with Verona (popular with tour operators and attracted some rather high fares). Beyond that maybe some of the longer French routes - Avignon, Perpignan, Toulon, Bastia. Further out the box would be trying a new unserved market - Croatia has grown significantly in popularity since Flybe served Split and Dubrovnik from Southampton about 10 years ago, as an example.

[fjencl]

Perhaps they already have enough of there own crews to operate on the 190.

[shamrock7seal]

Does Eastern plan to have any tie up with BA city flyer? Could be a good partnership if risk is shared for expansion domestically and to sunshine spots. How many ERj-190’s can SOU take simultaneously? They’re going to be rather full at weekends 😂

[BA318]

I doubt it. The BA/Eastern deal on the Saab didn’t seem great and then went to Loganair and it seems BA and Loganair have already signed codeshares.

[stewyb]

shamrock7seal

will be tight for E90’s if the schedules remain as is. Up to 3 BA on Sat & Sun, 1 Eastern and potentially 1 KLM. 4 stands available!

[Rivet Joint]

If you include stand 14 then it’s 5.

Whilst we are on the subject of BA and E90’s, one has just gone over head taking the saints team up to NCL. Even more odd is that it’s using a Jota call sign. Work that one out.

[mmeteesside]

Appears one of the Jota 146s is off so guess they’ve hired Cityflyer to cover a run

[Rivet Joint]

Interesting, thanks for clarifying. They do seem to have a monopoly on the football charters, I guess that doesn't keep them that busy during the week though.

[Downwind_Left]

stewyb

There are planned to be 6 BA Cityflyer 190s on the ground on Saturday night at SOU, confirmed by 6 scheduled arrivals on Saturday evening. And 6 slot one departures on Sunday morning; Florence, Ibiza, Palma, Edinburgh, Bergerac, Mykonos.

[Jn14:6]

Question;
Is the 190, being a bit shorter than the 195, able to use more stands than the 195 was?

[The Nutts Mutts]

No, the tail is still too tall for nose-in parking on stands 6-12. I think there'll be a lot of towing for overnight nose-out parking on those stands once the pax have disembarked.

[SKOJB]

Just goes to show the stand limitations even with Embraer operations. Things could be improved if they removed the extended section of the short stay car park and moved stands 8-12 back. This would allow for maybe 3 or 4 larger which could accommodate Airbus aircraft. No idea if this has ever been looked at however!

[TCAS FAN]

Looking at E190 ops, based upon a total length of 36.24M and a fin height of 10.57 metres it may be possible to accommodate them nose in on Stands 8-12. Stands 6-7 are restricted by the baggage make-up area so probably non-starters.

Since the apron was constructed the ICAO obstacle clearance requirements for Code 3/4 runways has become slightly more liberal due to the runway strip width having been reduced from 150 to 140 metres. Extending out from this at a 1:7 gradient is the Transitional Surface (aka “sideslope”). This is the limiting obstacle clearance requirement for nose-in parking on Stands 6-14.

The strip width reduction (assuming that a Stand is at the same elevation as the point that its centreline meets the runway centreline) will buy an extra 1.42M fin height at the back of Stand. By adjusting the Stand markings/indicator boards, removing/reducing ground equipment bays, extension of Stand 12 definitely possible, although may mean moving the boundary fence into that part of the original short-term park that they didn’t multi storey. That would of course provide replacement storage area for ground equipment, currently used for hire car parking. Such mods may even permit larger aircraft.

Even if complete avoidance of the Transitional Surface is not possible it may be possible to secure CAA approval for nose-in parking due to the temporary nature that the fin presents, something that I believe may have already been secured for parking of E jets and larger on Stand 5.

From what I remember of the multi-decking of the Short Term, the folly of which I have banged on about in past posts, due to the way it is constructed it is unlikely to be economically viable to modify to provide additional Stand length for B737/A320 nose-in. That said Stand 12 may be viable due to the ability to move the fence.

The only other factor that could come into play is that the bearing strength of the apron on Stands 5-14 is considerably less than 1-4. Hopefully not another construction shortcut that will come back and bite.

[SKOJB]

Thanks TCAS great info. Yes, I had thought about stand 12 and maybe the airport could take this back slightly in to the car park area, it’s definitely wide enough to accommodate Airbus etc and this would potentially give them 5 larger stands with the apron also being reconfigured. They certainly need to do something as it’s probably not even fit for 5 E90’s in current configuration.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Given the hammering that the airport's finances have no doubt taken over the last year, it may be a case of making do for this summer and letting the increased demand build up a case for investment once passengers numbers start to build.
As much as I'd like to see more airside infrastructure I can't imagine the airport will be keen to spend money straight away if there's any way they can accommodate the current planned operations with the existing layout, even if it means a bit of extra hassle for a summer or two.

[BOHEuropean]

Blue Islands flights to Dublin and Manchester from Southampton postponed now until 7th June per booking engine.

[Capt Kremmen]

I've flown in and out of Southampton these past thirty years. Southampton's problem is space - lack of it ! Others have commented similarly. Bounded on the south by the M27, on the west by the M3 and sundry secondary road routes and on the north by the railway track, buildings and assorted sidings and as many chimney pots north and south as you won't be able to count.

The answer to an effective regional airport located virtually in Southampton lies in development of Lee-on- Solent or, if you prefer, the former HMS Daedalus. The last time I looked it was a haven of aviation surrounded by green fields on the edge of the Solent. There would be transportation/connection problems to overcome but, it looks, at least superficially, as worthy of a feasibility study. Indeed, it might have been done.

[Auxtank]

I'm conflicted on this. I work in aviation but I also live about 5 NM out below the G/S for 20 and don't want A320s/ 737s going overhead, on the other hand I don't want to see job losses and houses.

I'm also conflicted about development of Daedalus - as we all call it, still - I fly out of there regularly, and learned to fly there with Phoenix.

It's tricky - and no mistake.
That elusive balance.

Given present circumstances a definite HOLD should be put on any major proposals for at least the next 12 months.

[Flitefone]

The Airport Operators Association said earlier this month:

'Based on analysis before the pandemic worsened, Steer (their consultants) estimated that passenger numbers would not return to 2019 levels any earlier than 2025 in the most optimistic scenario (a gradual easing of travel restrictions in 2021 in line with a successful vaccine roll-out across the globe). So far, increased restrictions in 2021 mean a full traffic recovery by 2025 is an ever-more unlikely prospect'.

Meanwhile Eurocontrol said at the end of January:
“What remains unclear currently is the situation thereafter (Q1). It is reasonable to expect that the epidemiological situation will have improved in many European States by Q2 and that the most vulnerable citizens across Europe will have been vaccinated (despite delays in the roll-out). In turn, this could lead to the possibility for non-essential air travel to become more accessible, which would facilitate a small improvement during Q2, followed by a larger recovery in the summer period. If that’s the case, then we could see levels around -55% of 2019 (flights) by June. However, it is also reasonable to expect that, even if the epidemiological situation has improved by Q2, many States may potentially choose not to relax their national travel restrictions, which will severely curtail demand and any possibility for air travel to improve until the summer period at the very earliest. If that’s the case, then we’re still looking at -70% by June."

2021 looks increasingly shot, it will be a several years yet before airports anywhere (in UK) can spend money. Much the same right across Europe.

[SKOJB]

Putting a hold on airport development now will only kick the can down the road for a further time. Improvements should have happened years ago and now is arguably the absolute right time to bring forward the planning application in readiness for 2 years time when there is no doubt that leisure travel will become centre stage once again. I disagree with those who suggest air travel will never be the same as most families are chomping at the bit to go abroad once more and many have large amounts of disposable income saved up from these past 12 months. SOU will never be a 5m pax airport but back up to 2m and the airport will thrive once again with a good number of U.K. regional connections (albeit at reduced frequencies) and a better selection of European sun and city destinations. Airfield space is a problem but with BA and their smaller Embraer’s and maybe a low cost airline that is willing to base a single aircraft to a handful of routes, this shouldn’t be a problem and will be sufficient with the 4 larger stands. The airport still has many attributes over and above other regionals and looks to have built back well from the demise of Flybe so it’s future although uncertain, has the potential to thrive once again fairly quickly

[RW20]

It's very evident that it will be many years before SOU recovers from the covid19 outbreak,indeed it could be said that it and possibly other airports might never recover.Certainly investment will not be forthcoming and runway extension plans will be shelved. Sun holidays for this year surely have little chance of happening,and given the virus unpredictably for next winter 2022 looks very uncertain.

[easyflyer83]

A little overly pessimistic there somewhat. Whilst i don’t think it will be a normal summer in terms of numbers, I’m confident there will be a summer season in some form or another. I simply cannot see this summer being worse than last when the most vulnerable across Europe will have been vaccinated. I don’t think the public will stand for it and there would be intense pressure on governments from the airlines and tourism industries. The current theatre of quarantine is the result of a government reacting to pressure, come summer that pressure will swing quite the opposite way should the vaccination programme still be progressing at pace.

A failure to have any sort of summer this year will be absolute decimation for the airlines, let alone a disrupted summer 2022 which would be apocalyptic.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Well, most of the people I know and speak to have essentially written this year off for a foreign holiday. The main issue is that nobody can plan anything with any certainty. Who knows when the international restrictions will be lifted. The UK is leading the way with regard to vaccinations, but most of Europe is way behind with their programme which again casts further doubt as to the timing of those countries being open for tourism.

In short, it’s not a rosy picture.

[Buster the Bear]

I totally agree! Getting my cash back for cancelled trips meant credit card charge backs, lengthy travel insurance claim and hours on the phone. Airlines and tour operators illegally holding on to our money, no wonder millions like me will wait for certainty! You reap what you sow.

[AirUK]

I understand once bitten, twice shy - but I think it’s rather unfair to tar them all with the same brush and a shame you don’t seem to want to show any support for the industry for which you clearly take an interest in (causing you to frequent this forum for many a year) and for which you presumably hope will still be in existence to take you on your holidays in the future.

Whilst some companies more than others may have been more awkward when it came to dealing with applications for refunds last year, don’t forget that they all had to deal with millions of enquiries and refund transactions at a time when all call centres were effectively closed down and staff had to work from home, with booking systems that were not necessarily designed to be accessed remotely from a personal computer and personal telephone lines not previously integrated into the company networks. I’d say that like all of us, they’ve had a lot to learn and get used to in the past year, but I believe that even those companies that were being awkward last time around wouldn’t risk their reputations a second time if restrictions meant that travel plans had to be postponed or cancelled again this year.

Most now provide a COVID-safe booking policy for peace of mind and obviously if you book a package and then the worst happens, you’ll be ATOL protected.

[SKOJB]

Eastern basing an E90 at SOU is at present only going to be utilised 2 days a week for Gibraltar, they must surely have other work for it or is it the usual Eastern route methodology of square pegs in round holes?!

[Buster the Bear]

I do and have worked in the industry and the shameful manner in which many airlines and tour operators hung on to money, or exchanged them for unwanted vouchers even after many many months. Jet2 set the standard high, shame others were more concern about dividends to shareholder than customers. I shall withhold paying any airline money until I get certainty. When you are chasing a five figure sum, it kind of focuses your attention on the good and the bad.

[cavokblues]

SKOJB

Would have thought there are a few former Flybe French routes or even Palma / Malaga / Faro that might be worth a crack?

[easyflyer83]

From personal experience I’ve had nothing but good experiences with several carriers this last year including BA, LH and U2.

[adfly]

BA seem to have added an extra Malaga flight, now 2.5 weekly rather than 1.5. 1 departure on Sat, and 2 on Sun and 2 arrivals both on Sat.

TUI are also now selling holidays using the BA flights to Ibiza, Malaga, Palma (Sundays only) and Faro (previously on sale).

Volotea appear to just be flying a Saturday flight to Palma now for TUI.

[stewyb]

Good news and with the likelihood of vaccine passports now probable, not possible, this summer might not be completely lost as some have suggested. Seems the government are already speaking to several nations about brits abroad being allowed to enter including Greece and Spain

[AirUK]

easyflyer,

I've had the same experience as yourself - with the same three funnily enough! LH was probably the simplest, BA not bad and EZY the slowest to refund, but the option to came as soon as the flight was canx'd.

Buster,

I'm guessing you work for Jet2...!

[stewyb]

At present 41 departures midweek in July IF all go ahead and 230 weekly, a decent recovery for the airport!

[RW20]

This number is not remotely feasable,given that air travel will take to at least 2022 to begin to recover.
Today's IATA statement underlines this :Cuts across Europe expected. Latest IATA forecast published yesterday now expects demand this year to be just 38% of 2019 at best, with a risk of 33%..Bournemouth along with other TUI airports is expecting 5 routes being dropped. Over optimism by certain SOU contributors masks the reality of the airports predicament ,it's going to be a tough uphill battle to survive.

[Dropoffcharge]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/19115539.city-council-objects-southampton-airports-runway-plans/

[LTNman]

Seems Southampton Airport is within a Freeport Zone together with East Midlands Airport and Teeside Airport.

[southside bobby]

Southampton was previously Freeport until 2012.

[LTNman]

Can’t seeing making much difference to the airport but it is better to be inside one given a choice

[Sharklet_321]

I would imagine that the Port of Southampton would stand to benefit from any Freeport status. Freeport status tends to lend itself to freight and logistics not short-haul passenger transport unless it's super time-sensitive belly-hold cargo. Could be some side-effect business travel demand but who is to say how much? Did the Freeport status benefit SOU prior to 2012?

SOU is very fortunate to be in a position to nurture further BA Cityflyer development and to attract new in-bound business & global connecting traffic from the likes of other new airlines like Lufthansa, Aer Lingus (Dublin), Air France, KLM frequency & aircraft size increases etc etc. The runway extension will unlock these airlines in terms of removing existing payload penalties.

[The Nutts Mutts]

southside bobby

I believe that was the port, I don't think the airport was part of that. This time around the land owned by the airport to the NE corner of the runway is part of the Freeport and is being supported by Eastleigh Borough Council with road building earmarked to open it up.

[LTNman]

Steve Szalay, operations director at Southampton Airport – which is awaiting a decision on plans to extend its runway – said: “We have been working closely with the Solent LEP on their bid as the airport is a vital component to the freeport. We are optimistic about the pivotal role that we can play in repositioning and rebuilding the region.

"That is why we are calling on our councillors to approve the runway extension to ensure that we are able to continue to connect the central south, nationally and internationally.”

Peter Taylor, chair of Southampton Chamber of Commerce and managing partner at law firm Paris Smith, said: "The announcement by the Chancellor of the Exchequer for a new Freeport in the Solent region is a significant endorsement of the strategic role which the ports of Southampton and Portsmouth as well as Southampton airport have for the region and the UK. It will undoubtedly create business opportunities and jobs across the city.



https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/19132445.hampshire-get-freeport-create-25-000-jobs/

[Janet Spongthrush]

I’ve had Mikonos flights cancelled 16-May outbound (no surprise!) and 22-May return; a cursory look at BA website suggests that flights now start 29-May?

[stewyb]

The Nutts Mutts

Airport to Council - you pass the extension and we’ll supply the land!

[BAladdy]

BACF have pushed back the launch of services from SOU to 29th May.

[ATNotts]

Freeports are little more than a political gimmick, they didn't bring anything fundamentally beneficial to the party last time around, and it's doubtful they will this time either.

[adfly]

KLM now bookable for W21/22 - 14 weekly all on the E190 for the moment.

[Buster the Bear]

Far from a gimmick! https://www.business-live.co.uk/ports-logistics/pros-cons-freeports-explained-19961792

[SWBKCB]

Just repeating something doesn't make it true - even this article you've quoted lists the disadvantages, there is evidence to show that creating low tax free areas just sucks in activity from the surrounding area rather than generating new activity.

[Asturias56]

and in the medium term the number of people who think they are benefiting is far smaller than the number who think they're being disadvantaged -

[Dropoffcharge]

The Nutts Mutts

If this actually benefits the airport in anyway is yet to be seen, surely any industrial area won't have a direct airside/runway access?

[zantopst]

the picture shown as part of the Freeport plans shows 4 hangars on that side of the runway attached to the edge of the business park so I would say potentially yes the airport would benefit from it!

[Rivet Joint]

Yet another good news story that the usual individuals are desperately trying to turn into a negative. We would all love to know why you pea brained arm chair experts think the Government, who are probably quite busy at the moment, would spend time on freeports if they achieved no results. Last time I checked Singapore, which is smaller than Hampshire, is doing alright. Of course as has long been demonstrated on this thread there is no reasoned debate to be had with people who are just spreading hate as a result of their own deficiencies. The fact that you are belittling the prospect of thousands of jobs creating opportunities for families who are suffering in these awful times must mean that you are truly hateful to the core. I suggest all of you go away any seek help. Mods please take note, there are some frequent offenders here.

On a positive, lets hope this opens up better opportunities for the land on the north east side. Surely land with runway access that benefits from this new status would be wasted on more storage sheds for road hauliers. The new status will also presumably make the Council more confident that investing in the new link road will be money well spent. Meanwhile turning to the cruise industry, which i'm sure the arm chair experts would tell us is even more doomed than aviation, I note that the construction of a fifth cruise terminal is well underway and looks like no expense spared as well. Amazing what you can do with a bit of optimism.

[RW20]

River joint,your comments are offensive and show just how extreme you are!! "Of course as has long been demonstrated on this thread there is no reasoned debate to be had with people who are just spreading hate as a result of their own deficiencies. The fact that you are belittling the prospect of thousands of jobs creating opportunities for families who are suffering in these awful times must mean that you are truly hateful to the core. I suggest all of you go away any seek help. Mods please take note, there are some frequent offenders here. course as has long been demonstrated on this thread there is no reasoned debate to be had with people who are just spreading hate as a result of their own deficiencies. The fact that you are belittling the prospect of thousands of jobs "
Mods take note of this offensive contributor.
The runway extension will go to the wire,but does the airport need it know with the radical changes brought on be covid?​​

[SWBKCB]

We would all love to know why you pea brained arm chair experts think the Government, who are probably quite busy at the moment, would spend time on freeports if they achieved no results.

Maybe because they are a subject the Chancellor has been promoting for a while - see his paper from 2016, then some of the counter arguements from the FT

https://www.cps.org.uk/research/the-free-ports-opportunity/

https://www.ft.com/content/7ee9e853-bea6-4797-9119-f7e20cdae3c0

[stewyb]

Freeport status is a game changer for the airport, watch this space!

[ZULUBOY]

Genuine question for the Freeport supporters. Why were the last lot scrapped in 2012?

[inOban]

The legislation was time limited and wasn't renewed.

[Buster the Bear]

EU membership restrictions meant the Freeport status had marginal benefits. Free from the shackles of Brussels, there are massive investment opportunities. For our ports and airports.

[SWBKCB]

What are the differences?

[inOban]

EU membership restrictions? You mean the freedom of trade we had as members?

[Asturias56]

yeah we need Free Trade Port because we've just left one of the worlds biggest free trade organisations.............. and that applied across the whole country