Southampton-3

[Asturias56]

The problem is that the area south of London is by far the most under-resourced area in the country for new building, houses etc - many of the airports in S England are actually in or immediately adjacent to built up areas under severe development pressure. Lydd is the only real exception. Shoreham & Blackbushe must be a major concern - then Southampton. Bournemouth may last a bit longer. Exeter? who knows......................

[stewyb]

The problem is that the area south of London is by far the most under-resourced area in the country for new building, houses etc - many of the airports in S England are actually in or immediately adjacent to built up areas under severe development pressure. Lydd is the only real exception. Shoreham & Blackbushe must be a major concern - then Southampton. Bournemouth may last a bit longer. Exeter? who knows......................

You are on the wrong forum group and instead suggest you post on Construction News, tedious to say the least!

[kcockayne]

The problem is that the area south of London is by far the most under-resourced area in the country for new building, houses etc - many of the airports in S England are actually in or immediately adjacent to built up areas under severe development pressure. Lydd is the only real exception. Shoreham & Blackbushe must be a major concern - then Southampton. Bournemouth may last a bit longer. Exeter? who knows......................
You may find this “tedious”; personally, I find it “fair comment”. I can’t see why it would get anyone “hot under the collar”. Given the current concern about aviation generally (& I am an enthusiast), it only feels appropriate that people engage in this sort of speculation or discussion. “General interest” would cover it.

[Wycombe]

The problem is that the area south of London is by far the most under-resourced area in the country for new building, houses etc - many of the airports in S England are actually in or immediately adjacent to built up areas under severe development pressure. Lydd is the only real exception. Shoreham & Blackbushe must be a major concern - then Southampton. Bournemouth may last a bit longer. Exeter? who knows......................
I can assure you that there is no such concern at Blackbushe!

Apologies for off-topic response, but couldn't leave what is a very ill/not informed comment.

[Asturias56]

It's never the people who fly from an airport/airfield that you have to worry about - it's the financial types who drive by every day and think $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Then they start financial engineering and make offers that no-one can refuse

[SWBKCB]

Is there to be an official launch event in September?

[davidjohnson6]

Bit difficult to get the average person in So'ton excited about an asphalt strip being extended...

[SWBKCB]

Bit difficult to get the average person in So'ton excited about an asphalt strip being extended...

Yes - amazing how people can be so negative. :rolleyes:

[davidjohnson6]

Yes - amazing how people can be so negative. :rolleyes:
As the marketing saying goes, you sell the sizzle not the sausage - i.e. you gotta show real tangible benefits to somebody who is neither an airport employee nor somebody with special interest in the runway.
Show new routes appearing, and the average person is interested. Show them a strip of asphalt saying "in ye olden days the asphalt only came up to where I'm standing and everything behind where I'm standing was just grass", and the reaction is likely to be "Meh...".

[LTNman]

Never a truer word spoken. Most Southampton residents won’t give a monkey’s and the ones that will be interested will be more concerned about extra noise, as they were the ones that objected.

[RW20]

Never a truer word spoken. Most Southampton residents won’t give a monkey’s and the ones that will be interested will be more concerned about extra noise, as they were the ones that objected.
The proof of the pudding is when there is announcement of Summer routes 24 ?

[Pain in the R's]

There has been plenty of announcements at Southend but many still view the airport as failing.

[SouthernAlliance]

There has been plenty of announcements at Southend but many still view the airport as failing.

Difference being SOU has a very healthy and long standing domestic schedule of near on 30 departures per day, something SEN can only dream of. Add to that some expected holiday/European city destinations and you have an airport that is very much not failing and will most likely hit 1m pax per annum within 12/18 months!

[Pain in the R's]

Agreed. SOU existing routes are the bedrock of its operations and will remain so. We all await with great anticipation to see what will happen in the next 12 to 24 months. Getting new routes will not be an issue as surely they will come but the big question is will they be successful, as U.K. plc faces some challenging times ahead and there might well be some consolidation next summer.

An issue is that with no announcements forthcoming passengers are already booking their Gatwick flights for next year, business that could have come to Southampton.

[SouthernAlliance]

Aer Lingus - BHD goes x 3 daily from 29th October. No news as yet of Loganair taking on MAN x 3 daily!

[uptoncol]

Well EasyJet have released flights up until September 2024 this morning,still no new destinations from Southampton ☹️

[SWBKCB]

Well EasyJet have released flights up until September 2024 this morning,still no new destinations from Southampton ☹️

Does that include any new flights anywhere else, or just a roll over of the exisitng timetable? They tend to save launches of new routes and announce them separaretly

[stewyb]

Well EasyJet have released flights up until September 2024 this morning,still no new destinations from Southampton ☹️

New routes are released separate, these will be announced in the coming weeks!

[Sotonsean]

New routes are released separate, these will be announced in the coming weeks!

In the coming weeks 🤔

And you're absolutely convinced in your mind that any announcement by EasyJet will include Southampton.

I'm hoping like everything else on this thread that any announcement by EasyJet regarding new routes will include Southampton. But tbh I'm not as optimistic as you and several others are regarding this.

If EasyJet were to announce a range of new flights from Southampton I'm absolutely sure that they would have announced it by now. Schedules for Summer 2024 at Southampton would surely be available by now if EasyJet were as serious as you try and make out.

In previous post's you have more or less given the impression that you have some kind of inside knowledge. After reading the same same in nearly every post I'm under the impression that your not engaged with any "inside knowledge".

It's all hear say and totally based on unfounded rumours. As I've previously mentioned on several occasions, until there is an official announcement by EasyJet regarding any new routes from Southampton it's all wishful thinking.

FYI....one of the reasons why I gave up plane registration spotting in the early 1980s was because of the totally unfounded rumours that were continous and annoying.

[Dropoffcharge]

In the coming weeks 🤔

And you're absolutely convinced in your mind that any announcement by EasyJet will include Southampton.

I'm hoping like everything else on this thread that any announcement by EasyJet regarding new routes will include Southampton. But tbh I'm not as optimistic as you and several others are regarding this.

If EasyJet were to announce a range of new flights from Southampton I'm absolutely sure that they would have announced it by now. Schedules for Summer 2024 at Southampton would surely be available by now if EasyJet were as serious as you try and make out.

In previous post's you have more or less given the impression that you have some kind of inside knowledge. After reading the same same in nearly every post I'm under the impression that your not engaged with any "inside knowledge".

It's all hear say and totally based on unfounded rumours. As I've previously mentioned on several occasions, until there is an official announcement by EasyJet regarding any new routes from Southampton it's all wishful thinking.

FYI....one of the reasons why I gave up plane registration spotting in the early 1980s was because of the totally unfounded rumours that were continous and annoying.

Thats way too constructive and sensible a reply/view, may you be banished from this thread forever with that kind of negative thinking!!! 😉😂

Of course though, you are 100% correct, is far too many dreamers on here only believing there own made up fantasies......

What will be will be.......

[Dropoffcharge]

these will be announced in the coming weeks!
Spill the beans then, we won't dob you in. 🤐 You obviously have a direct link with the powers that be at EasyJet, seeing as you are so well informed on everything, or perhaps you've promised them not to say anything untill the official announcement happens....🤣

[LTNman]

If they had already decided to operate summer routes from Southampton why would they delay the announcement so costing them sales?

[SWBKCB]

If they had already decided to operate summer routes from Southampton why would they delay the announcement so costing them sales?

An arguement that could be applied at every airport about every airline - will we see no announcements from anybody anywhere about next summer, then?

[stewyb]

To be clear, post #2018 on easyjet releasing new routes in the next few weeks and after their scheduled release this morning was factual in that this has always been the case and the very same each year, I did not suggest this was related to SOU in any way. Let’s wait and see what is announced, if anything, for the airport and if I am wrong and nothing materialises, I am big and ugly enough to admit my mistake. Until then!

[Sotonsean]

To be clear, post #2018 on easyjet releasing new routes in the next few weeks and after their scheduled release this morning was factual in that this has always been the case and the very same each year, I did not suggest this was related to SOU in any way. Let’s wait and see what is announced, if anything, for the airport and if I am wrong and nothing materialises, I am big and ugly enough to admit my mistake. Until then!

Unlike yourself I'm actually not big and I'm definitely not ugly but I await the day when you are able to admit your many mistakes on this thread. Until then!

BTW, In my honest opinion your credibility rating on this thread was rather high at one point, what happened for it to deteriorate so quickly 🤔

[Dropoffcharge]

However the first real test will be next summer when easyjet will be running a much larger program from the airport and could have multiple arrivals at once!

However we can expect something fairly soon and will no doubt draw away a certain percentage of BOH regulars, interesting times!

To be clear, post #2018 on easyjet releasing new routes in the next few weeks and after their scheduled release this morning was factual in that this has always been the case and the very same each year, I did not suggest this was related to SOU in any way

Well that was a sudden back track (no pun intended) I draw attention to two of your previous posts of you suggesting EasyJet are VERY much related to SOU in S24......🤔🤷‍♂️

[RW20]

Well that was a sudden back track (no pun intended) I draw attention to two of your previous posts of you suggesting EasyJet are VERY much related to SOU in S24......🤔🤷‍♂️
The problem is and will always be is that due to SOU opening times there will never be a LCC base at the airport. Then down the road at BOH these restrictions dont exist,hence there ever increasing destinations and PAX numbers. Im not sure how this will effect SOU short term,but they will not be able to get back to profit without LCC operations.

[SouthernAlliance]

The problem is and will always be is that due to SOU opening times there will never be a LCC base at the airport. Then down the road at BOH these restrictions dont exist,hence there ever increasing destinations and PAX numbers. Im not sure how this will effect SOU short term,but they will not be able to get back to profit without LCC operations.

That doesn’t however deter airlines from operating non based flying, easyjet included. Think we all need to wait and see what if anything is announced. All I will say is that because EZY have already added some additional winter flying to the airport, this potentially bodes well for them also trying some summer schedules now the runway is complete!

[Sotonsean]

That doesn’t however deter airlines from operating non based flying, easyjet included. Think we all need to wait and see what if anything is announced. All I will say is that because EZY have already added some additional winter flying to the airport, this potentially bodes well for them also trying some summer schedules now the runway is complete!

Or it might be the case that with EasyJet discontinuing those "additional winter flying to the airport" for summer 2024 it might not bode well for them also trying summer schedules regardless of the fact that the runway extension is now complete 🤔

Those looking for their summer flights are looking elsewhere to fly from. EasyJet will have the data for them to target a local audience. If they felt there was a captive audience surely a company like EasyJet would have announced something by now.

It would have been a major announcement by the airline if they decided on expanding their ops at Southampton. The fact that they haven't yet done so regardless of the fact that the runway extension is now completed leads me to believe that they won't.

As I have mentioned on numerous occasions, until EasyJet make an official statement it's all hearsay and unfounded rumours. The topic is brought up by the same individuals over and over again. It's tedious and boring and dare I say it getting rather childish.

I know this topic more or less keeps this thread alive but enough is enough.

Perhaps it's a good idea to put the topic to sleep for now and wait for EasyJet to wake us all up as and when they feel like making any official announcement.

[cavokblues]

I've no idea if Easy will or won't but there is still plenty of time for them to announce something. When they relaunched Southend to Malaga and Palma for summer '22 they only announced it the previous December. When Jet2 launched their Bristol base they only announced it the previous November.

[RW20]

I've no idea if Easy will or won't but there is still plenty of time for them to announce something. When they relaunched Southend to Malaga and Palma for summer '22 they only announced it the previous December. When Jet2 launched their Bristol base they only announced it the previous November.
Both these airports have one specific advantage over SOU, i.e. Operational hours!

[SWBKCB]

What's the relevance of operating hours to when airlines announce new routes?

[RW20]

What's the relevance of operating hours to when airlines announce new routes?
Simply For LCC to operate from Southampton they need the flexability of landing after 23-00 when delays occur,its costly to divert to other airports.

[SouthernAlliance]

Or it might be the case that with EasyJet discontinuing those "additional winter flying to the airport" for summer 2024 it might not bode well for them also trying summer schedules regardless of the fact that the runway extension is now complete 🤔

Those looking for their summer flights are looking elsewhere to fly from. EasyJet will have the data for them to target a local audience. If they felt there was a captive audience surely a company like EasyJet would have announced something by now.

It would have been a major announcement by the airline if they decided on expanding their ops at Southampton. The fact that they haven't yet done so regardless of the fact that the runway extension is now completed leads me to believe that they won't.

As I have mentioned on numerous occasions, until EasyJet make an official statement it's all hearsay and unfounded rumours. The topic is brought up by the same individuals over and over again. It's tedious and boring and dare I say it getting rather childish.

I know this topic more or less keeps this thread alive but enough is enough.

Perhaps it's a good idea to put the topic to sleep for now and wait for EasyJet to wake us all up as and when they feel like making any official announcement.

Just an observation but your postings could also be construed as tedious and boring, you clearly have nothing positive to say about the airport even though your username suggests otherwise

[Sotonsean]

Just an observation but your postings could also be construed as tedious and boring, you clearly have nothing positive to say about the airport even though your username suggests otherwise

I'm very positive about my local airport. I first visited my local airport in 1969. I started my interest in aviation at my local airport aged 7 in 1972. I've supported the airport throughout my adult life.

But

The continous post's regarding unfounded rumours from those that assume they know better is in fact getting extremely tedious and boring.

Just an observation, construed 🤔

I'm just stating the actual facts, as obvious as they are.

[LTNman]

There are those without any inside information that can make a good educated guess as to what is going to happen. Due to their certainty they then start a rumour as there is a good chance they will be correct. This is done to increase their own standing as someone in the know.

A clue to what they know can be deduced, as to whether they are indeed insiders, by looking at their track record. For instance did they predict EasyJet’s new winter only domestic program to Southampton weeks in advance of its announcement?

[cavokblues]

Simply For LCC to operate from Southampton they need the flexability of landing after 23-00 when delays occur,its costly to divert to other airports.

Completely agree it's prohibitive for a base. But look at SEN's flights from Malaga and Palma - predominantly early morning and mid afternoon arrivals. I think that's the best Southampton can hope for at this point, a few arrivals from away based aircraft well away from the curfew. Whether that's enough to fill their financial hole, who knows?

[Asturias56]

"Just an observation but your postings could also be construed as tedious and boring, you clearly have nothing positive to say about the airport even though your username suggests otherwise"

I though Sean was the biggest SOU fan boy on here -

Clearly wrong - he and his friends in the People's Judean Front are clearly sell out traitors according to Southern Alliance and his mates in the Front for the Liberation of......................

;)

[SWBKCB]

Simply For LCC to operate from Southampton they need the flexability of landing after 23-00 when delays occur,its costly to divert to other airports.

But the comment you quoted related to a discussion about launch dates. You comment might be relevant if the discussion had been about opening a base, which it wasn't. :ok:

And both SEN and BOH have operating hours restrictions.

[RW20]

But the comment you quoted related to a discussion about launch dates. You comment might be relevant if the discussion had been about opening a base, which it wasn't. :ok:

And both SEN and BOH have operating hours restrictions.
In the case of BOH,just look at the arrivals board and you will see regular late arrivals sometimes after midnight,so the restictions dont limit its operations!

[RW20]

Easy BOH -Lyon announced today!
Theres a surprise!

[rustythumb]

Fantastic news.

[Sharklet_321]

Wait let me get this right. So the very routes SOU do want and need, post extension, seem to be appearing at Bournemouth instead?

[LTNman]

Don’t worry, this thread has insider information.

[TCAS FAN]

On the subject of late SOU arrivals my understanding is, pursuant to the original Section 106 Agreement, that flights should not be scheduled after 2300 however up to 10 flight per month may be permitted in the event of delays. That said my past experience, particularly with Flybe, was that the 10 per month limit was not the reason for diversions. The reason was normally that the airport did not have sufficient staff available to cover a late arrival;

The non availability of staff was invariably caused by NATS ATC. Late attendance was, due to a union agreement, voluntary. This was further complicated by duty time limitations. If one or both were applicable it was a case of trying to call someone in on their day off, which again was not always possible due to minimum off-duty requirements between shift cycles.

In fairness to the controllers, they have a legal obligation to not allow themselves to become fatigued to the extent that it could impact on their ability to do their job. In this respect I know of instances where they declined a request to stay late, simply because after a busy summer's day they were knackered.

From recent NOTAMs issued by SOU that temporarily closed the airport for controller duty breaks, the short staffing situation is even worse than it used to be.

As a contractor NATS have to stay competitive, cannot see that they can do so with having excess staff to cover the possibility of an occasional late arrival.

Maybe time for AGS to go the way that Birmingham did and dispense with NATS in favour of operating ATC themselves at SOU and other locations? They might even be able to entice back the ex NATS SOU controller who now manages the BHX ATC Unit? Additionally there are a number of recently retired SOU controllers/managers who I feel would welcome the short term opportunity to help set up a new ATC Unit.

[Dropoffcharge]

Don’t worry, this thread has insider information.

Ha ha, priceless 🤣

[stewyb]

Today was the official opening of the runway extension and it was a pleasure to attend this special occasion. The Spitfire display was fantastic and very fitting with it being the home to this iconic aircraft. Lots to look forward to with the airports future!

[Sotonsean]

Fantastic news.

🤔🤔🤔

Yeah "fantastic" news for BOH but you do realise that you are posting it on the Southampton thread.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to celebrate the "fantastic" news with those on the Bournemouth thread instead.

It honestly doesn't matter one way or the other but I personally don't understand why you felt the need to post it here 🤔

On a side note, the use of the word "fantastic" regarding this announcement is a bit OTT in my honest opinion.

But nonetheless it's obviously "good news" for BOH.

[Sotonsean]

With the official opening of the runway extension taking place today (21/09/23) there is some great aerial footage on BBC South Today this evening for those who missed it. Obviously available on the BBC iplayer for those who are interested.

[SWBKCB]

Easy BOH -Lyon announced today!
Theres a surprise!

Maybe your ire should have been directed here.

Hopefully the official opening will be followed by some SOU related announcements.

[Sotonsean]

Maybe your ire should have been directed here.

Hopefully the official opening will be followed by some SOU related announcements.

And don't you think that today out of all days would have been the ideal time to make any such announcement.

Until any such announcements are officially made it remains the same, "it is what it is"!

I'm not being pessimistic about my local airport at all, quite the contrary, I'm just being a realist.

[TCAS FAN]

And don't you think that today out of all days would have been the ideal time to make any such announcement.

Until any such announcements are officially made it remains the same, "it is what it is"!

I'm not being pessimistic about my local airport at all, quite the contrary, I'm just being a realist.

Totally agree today was the day to make an announcement, as it never happened what should read into it?

[AVBH]

🤔🤔🤔

Yeah "fantastic" news for BOH but you do realise that you are posting it on the Southampton thread.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to celebrate the "fantastic" news with those on the Bournemouth thread instead.

It honestly doesn't matter one way or the other but I personally don't understand why you felt the need to post it here 🤔

On a side note, the use of the word "fantastic" regarding this announcement is a bit OTT in my honest opinion.

But nonetheless it's obviously "good news" for BOH.

Some fantastic figures recently announced by the CAA too…

July 2023 passenger figures for BOH have increased by 26% on 2022, meanwhile SOU have only increased by 4%.

[Sotonsean]

Some fantastic figures recently announced by the CAA too…

July 2023 passenger figures for BOH have increased by 26% on 2022, meanwhile SOU have only increased by 4%.

Oh here we go again, the ridiculous use of the word "fantastic".

I think it's clearly obvious that passenger figures for BOU would have increased far greater than that at SOU. Considering the fact that BOH has far more destinations served by far larger aircraft lead's you straight away to that fact.

And I notice that you have not yet posted this news on the BOH thread. Why I ask myself, is there a personal agenda at play 🤔

[AVBH]

Oh here we go again, the ridiculous use of the word "fantastic".

I think it's clearly obvious that passenger figures for BOU would have increased far greater than that at SOU. Considering the fact that BOH has far more destinations served by far larger aircraft lead's you straight away to that fact.

And I notice that you have not yet posted this news on the BOH thread. Why I ask myself, is there a personal agenda at play 🤔

and there it is 🎣

[stewyb]

Totally agree today was the day to make an announcement, as it never happened what should read into it?

Absolutely nothing, takeaway from today was new routes are coming although we just need a little patience and things should become clearer before Xmas, if not earlier

[Rivet Joint]

I'm very positive about my local airport. I first visited my local airport in 1969. I started my interest in aviation at my local airport aged 7 in 1972. I've supported the airport throughout my adult life.

But

The continous post's regarding unfounded rumours from those that assume they know better is in fact getting extremely tedious and boring.

Just an observation, construed 🤔

I'm just stating the actual facts, as obvious as they are.

As opposed to the much greater amount of individuals who post nothing but negativity over and over again? I have not seen a single rumour that is anything other than realistic. We hardly have people talking about Emirates commencing flights to Dubai on an A380. Just a low cost operator who by the way already operates route from SOU and has added a few additional routes already and has history of operating from a very similar airport in SEN.

Also, unless you want this forum to
merely be a place where people copy and paste links to the news you might want to get use to rumours.

This thread truly represents the worse in people in society today. Rather than rally around the positive people and build a community we have glass half full malcontents trying to make others feel as sad and lonely as themselves.

[Rivet Joint]

On the subject of late SOU arrivals my understanding is, pursuant to the original Section 106 Agreement, that flights should not be scheduled after 2300 however up to 10 flight per month may be permitted in the event of delays. That said my past experience, particularly with Flybe, was that the 10 per month limit was not the reason for diversions. The reason was normally that the airport did not have sufficient staff available to cover a late arrival;

The non availability of staff was invariably caused by NATS ATC. Late attendance was, due to a union agreement, voluntary. This was further complicated by duty time limitations. If one or both were applicable it was a case of trying to call someone in on their day off, which again was not always possible due to minimum off-duty requirements between shift cycles.

In fairness to the controllers, they have a legal obligation to not allow themselves to become fatigued to the extent that it could impact on their ability to do their job. In this respect I know of instances where they declined a request to stay late, simply because after a busy summer's day they were knackered.

From recent NOTAMs issued by SOU that temporarily closed the airport for controller duty breaks, the short staffing situation is even worse than it used to be.

As a contractor NATS have to stay competitive, cannot see that they can do so with having excess staff to cover the possibility of an occasional late arrival.

Maybe time for AGS to go the way that Birmingham did and dispense with NATS in favour of operating ATC themselves at SOU and other locations? They might even be able to entice back the ex NATS SOU controller who now manages the BHX ATC Unit? Additionally there are a number of recently retired SOU controllers/managers who I feel would welcome the short term opportunity to help set up a new ATC Unit.

Or they could just go the route of having a remote digital tower operated from Swanick like LCY. In fact the master plan shows the tower moving the other side of the runway which is likely to be remote.

[eglnyt]

Or they could just go the route of having a remote digital tower operated from Swanick like LCY. In fact the master plan shows the tower moving the other side of the runway which is likely to be remote.
ATC staffing levels will be part of the contract between the Airport and NATS. If the Airport wanted a more guaranteed ATC presence after hours it could add that to the contract. Of course it would then have to cover the additional costs for that.

One potential benefit of Remote towers would be that where several Airports have an infrequent need to cover after hours they could share that extra resource with other Airports with a similar need. That's been done elsewhere but the question of staff with multiple ratings for different airports is contentious and we won't know until there is more than one Airport run from the same place whether the CAA will allow it.

[TCAS FAN]

ATC staffing levels will be part of the contract between the Airport and NATS. If the Airport wanted a more guaranteed ATC presence after hours it could add that to the contract. Of course it would then have to cover the additional costs for that.

One potential benefit of Remote towers would be that where several Airports have an infrequent need to cover after hours they could share that extra resource with other Airports with a similar need. That's been done elsewhere but the question of staff with multiple ratings for different airports is contentious and we won't know until there is more than one Airport run from the same place whether the CAA will allow it.

The bottom line is something that invariably businesses default to. Do not dispute that the TWR could be remoted to Swanwick but unlike LCY SOU also provides their own in-house APS, so that would also need remoting.

If AGS decided to go it alone with ATC provision maybe BOH could bury the hatchet and start talking to AGS on a cost sharing project to provide APS for both BOH and SOU at one location. Currently there is considerable duplication of resources (with an obvious cost impact) with each unit providing their own service. Going back many years, when the two airports were on much better terms, during the airport redevelopment the radar feed needed to be relocated from the old SOU tower to the current one. To accomplish this a group of the SOU APS controllers temporarily relocated to operate "Solent" from BOH.

[eglnyt]

Remote towers is new technology. Remote APS is far more established. All the London Airports have had remote APS since the early 90s and the now defunct Doncaster Airport did too.

AGS might be better grouping its own airports than partnering with its rival down the road although a combined EGHH/EGHI APS would make a lot of sense

[LTNman]

An ideal job for someone older who now wants a quiet life with not much happening, as he or she winds down towards ATC retirement. Maybe a greenhouse and a potting shed next to the control tower could be provided as an incentive for those quieter moments plus an allocated space for a Labrador’s dog bed.

[RW20]

An ideal job for someone older who now wants a quiet life with not much happening, as he or she winds down towards ATC retirement. Maybe a greenhouse and a potting shed next to the control tower could be provided as an incentive for those quieter moments plus an allocated space for a Labrador’s dog bed.
I do believe that you only contribute to this thread to get some form of reaction,its a meaningless piece of tripe!
Come forward with some constructive views,if you wish to be considered seriously!

[Sotonsean]

I do believe that you only contribute to this thread to get some form of reaction,its a meaningless piece of tripe!
Come forward with some constructive views,if you wish to be considered seriously!

HERE HERE👍

I'm sure those on the Luton thread would wholeheartedly agree with your comments as well. In saying that the same could be said for every thread on pprune.

It reminds me when you're parents used to say to you when you were a kid, "enough is enough" 🤐

[LTNman]

Lighten up chaps, no sense of humour comes to mind, as it was meant to be a light-hearted comment.

Here is a photo to cheer you all up courtesy of the airport’s publicity department. Shouldn’t they be wearing hi vis jackets?
https://i.imgur.com/FjBYIM6.jpg

[Buster the Bear]

Remote towers is new technology. Remote APS is far more established. All the London Airports have had remote APS since the early 90s and the now defunct Doncaster Airport did too.

AGS might be better grouping its own airports than partnering with its rival down the road although a combined EGHH/EGHI APS would make a lot of sense

Will someone please tell me where the Luton remote APS was please during the 1990s? Maybe management forgot to tell me. I guess we could have gone procedural from the fire station :)

[eglnyt]

Will someone please tell me where the Luton remote APS was please during the 1990s? Maybe management forgot to tell me. I guess we could have gone procedural from the fire station :)
Sorry I forgot it became a London Airport in 1990. It was as you point out a late adopter.

[Sotonsean]

Lighten up chaps, no sense of humour comes to mind, as it was meant to be a light-hearted comment.

Here is a photo to cheer you all up courtesy of the airport’s publicity department. Shouldn’t they be wearing hi vis jackets?
https://i.imgur.com/FjBYIM6.jpg

Whenever your called out you always make an excuse as in the use of "sense of humour" or something similar to make up for your negativite comments. That doesn’t wash with me and I'm sure it doesn't with the majority on pprune. Your consistent comments are intentional there's no doubt about that.

[stewyb]

Lighten up chaps, no sense of humour comes to mind, as it was meant to be a light-hearted comment.

Here is a photo to cheer you all up courtesy of the airport’s publicity department. Shouldn’t they be wearing hi vis jackets?
https://i.imgur.com/FjBYIM6.jpg

As far as publicity photo’s go, they don’t get much classier or iconic than that and instead suggest you stick with your Vauxhall Viva at LTN!

[ATNotts]

Whenever your called out you always make an excuse as in the use of "sense of humour" or something similar to make up for your negativite comments. That doesn’t wash with me and I'm sure it doesn't with the majority on pprune. Your consistent comments are intentional there's no doubt about that.
Well, for what its worth immediately I read it I saw humour. A few people are just a bit too touchy.

[Sotonsean]

Well, for what its worth immediately I read it I saw humour. A few people are just a bit too touchy.

And all the other post's on here and other threads are all based on humour, really, have you not been taking any attention over the last year or so 🤔

[Pain in the R's]

What a ridiculous massive over reaction to a funny comment but then what is happening at Southampton is no laughing matter. I can understand why when in the same week Bournemouth picks up a new route that Southampton should have got and Southampton’s new runway is officially opened with not a single new route announcement.

Regarding greenhouses and potting sheds, this is actually happening at Manchester Airport who have provided airport allotments so why the anger? Just maybe Southampton needs to do the same to stop their staff nodding off between movements?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/airport-allotment-where-they-plot-how-to-keep-891281

Green-fingered Manchester airport workers have been banned from growing fruit at their workplace allotments – because of the danger of attracting birds and causing a plane crash.

The new allotments – just yards from one of Europe’s busiest airports – have proved a huge hit with staff, with 100 signing up for plots.

[Asturias56]

There's disagreeing and pointing out issues and there's deliberate "yah! Boo!! Sucks!!!" posts

There is absolutely no relevance to SOU in PITR's last post

[stewyb]

What a ridiculous massive over reaction to a funny comment but then what is happening at Southampton is no laughing matter. I can understand why when in the same week Bournemouth picks up a new route that Southampton should have got and Southampton’s new runway is officially opened with not a single new route announcement.

Regarding greenhouses and potting sheds, this is actually happening at Manchester Airport who have provided airport allotments so why the anger? Just maybe Southampton needs to do the same to stop their staff nodding off between movements?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/airport-allotment-where-they-plot-how-to-keep-891281

All good things come to those who wait!

[Sotonsean]

There's disagreeing and pointing out issues and there's deliberate "yah! Boo!! Sucks!!!" posts

There is absolutely no relevance to SOU in PITR's last post

BUT Southampton was mentioned in that particular post four times, yes that's right FOUR times.

So no relevance to SOU 🤔

[LTNman]

Time to move on and end the anger and the abuse on this thread.

The good
https://www.eastleighnews.co.uk/2023/09/virtual-southampton-airport-gets-controversial-runway-extension/

Any comment on the accuracy of the Microsoft flight simulator YouTube video, as I haven’t been to the airport for years?

The not so good
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/swissport-british-airways-passenger-passport-b2419378.html

[SolentAir]

A good friend of mine works as route development for Easyjet, I caught up with him the other day and asked him about Southampton. He advised that AGS has not had any communication with them recently reference expanding from Southampton, the last communication they had was to do with the Belfast and Glasgow routes.

[MARKEYD]

Is this where everyone now gives a list of possible candidates again that are suitable for Southampton !!

[RW20]

Is this where everyone now gives a list of possible candidates again that are suitable for Southampton !!
There's so much speculation,but very little facts!
Lets hope for some positive news soon,if only to stop some of the speculative posts that have been going on for a very long time!

[SouthernAlliance]

There's so much speculation,but very little facts!
Lets hope for some positive news soon,if only to stop some of the speculative posts that have been going on for a very long time!

Lots of speculation there maybe but that’s not uncommon with an airport which is looking to expand soon after a runway extension and this being a rumour page. If easyjet are not adding routes then it’s probably safe to assume someone else is coming in to take on a route network, after all the airport has always said it’s looking for a LCC. Will be interesting to see how this develops!

[LTNman]

A good friend of mine works as route development for Easyjet, I caught up with him the other day and asked him about Southampton. He advised that AGS has not had any communication with them recently reference expanding from Southampton, the last communication they had was to do with the Belfast and Glasgow routes.

Interesting to know how someone from Hampshire just happens to know someone from Luton who just happens to work in route development for Easyjet. Even I don’t know anyone yet I have many Luton connections so I guess you are lucky with your insider information.

[Groundloop]

then it’s probably safe to assume someone else is coming in to take on a route network

That's some assumption!!

[stewyb]

More to become clearer during Oct/Nov

[Sotonsean]

More to become clearer during Oct/Nov

Stewyb.....With all due respect but,

With your continous post's regarding this topic and your so called inside knowledge you know that your going to be accountable for this post along with similar posts if nothing becomes clearer during Oct/Nov.

You have made very similar posts over the last few months and if nothing is "made clearer" as you assume or are making out then I'm afraid these particular posts won't go in your favour 😉

I as everyone else on this thread wants some good news regarding future airline announcements for Southampton.

I'm hoping on your part and of course on the part of Southampton International Airport that your post "More to become clearer during Oct/Nov" has some form of reality attached to it.

I'm not a fan of winter especially as the nights get colder and darker but there's a part of me that's now looking forward to Oct/Nov. But then again October is only two days away.

[stewyb]

Stewyb.....With all due respect but,

With your continous post's regarding this topic and your so called inside knowledge you know that your going to be accountable for this post along with similar posts if nothing becomes clearer during Oct/Nov.

You have made very similar posts over the last few months and if nothing is "made clearer" as you assume or are making out then I'm afraid these particular posts won't go in your favour 😉

I as everyone else on this thread wants some good news regarding future airline announcements for Southampton.

I'm hoping on your part and of course on the part of Southampton International Airport that your post "More to become clearer during Oct/Nov" has some form of reality attached to it.

I'm not a fan of winter especially as the nights get colder and darker but there's a part of me that's now looking forward to Oct/Nov. But then again October is only two days away.

I will step away from this thread for now and wish you all well, the airport does however have a bright future!

[SWBKCB]

I will step away from this thread for now and wish you all well, the airport does however have a bright future!

if you want to speculate about future routes and operators, the Gatwick thread is the place! :ok:

[Sotonsean]

I will step away from this thread for now and wish you all well, the airport does however have a bright future!

Myself and others are in total agreement with you regarding the potential future for the airport, none of us doubting the fact that it has a "bright future".

But we're bid you farewell for now then and hopefully we might see you make a return sometime in December after everything has become clearer of course. With all the good news expected shortly there will be no better way of rejoicing, especially prior to the festive season. If all doesn't go to plan, there's only one thing "ask father Christmas!"

Obviously we're not expecting a response back from you due to the fact that you have decided to step away from this thread for now. And on behalf of myself and everyone else on this thread we appreciate your comment regarding"wishing you all well".

Enjoy the next two months or so and don't forget the clocks go back on the 29 October 2023. We look forward to your return sometime in December after everything has become clearer of course. Personally I can't wait as I'm sure we will have absolutely loads to discuss. It's going to be wild, isn't it 😜

[SolentAir]

Interesting to know how someone from Hampshire just happens to know someone from Luton who just happens to work in route development for Easyjet. Even I don’t know anyone yet I have many Luton connections so I guess you are lucky with your insider information.
Someone who has worked in aviation for the last 20 years at Heathrow, Luton, Edinburgh and Southampton, the latter as management for 7 years. And has worked with many Arline's over the years, and funnily enough when you have worked in the I dustry for that long you get to know many a people. Your more the welcome not to believe a word I say, I'm just stating a fact. I guess that I live in Hampshire means I surely can't know anyone out of Hampshire and at other airport and airlines.

But I'm sure a man of your aviation experience is at the top of the list and no one else can surely know anyone else.

[LTNman]

I fully believe you seeing that there were no announcements or hints when the runway extension was officially opened. It was just that your interesting statement runs counter to what Strewyb has been long claiming if indeed Easyjet is the airline. The expectation are high for announcements soon so there could some fan club members here having a potentially miserable Christmas.

[TCAS FAN]

SouthernAlliance

Ref your post that did a touch-and-go, Stands 1-5 are indeed closed until 21 October, as NOTAM C5459/23 below indicates:

A)EGHI
B)2310011530 C)2310202359
E)APRON CUL-DE-SAC STANDS 1-5 AND TAXILANE CLOSED DUE MAINTENANCE.

To be closed for such a period of time may indicate that the Stands are being re-configured into four larger ones?

If I am correct with my speculation, why go to the expense to re-configure, unless there will shortly be a need for larger Stands?

We may have to wait for another NOTAM in about 3 weeks time for all to be revealed.

[SouthernAlliance]

SouthernAlliance

Ref your post that did a touch-and-go, Stands 1-5 are indeed closed until 21 October, as NOTAM C5459/23 below indicates:

A)EGHI
B)2310011530 C)2310202359
E)APRON CUL-DE-SAC STANDS 1-5 AND TAXILANE CLOSED DUE MAINTENANCE.

To be closed for such a period of time may indicate that the Stands are being re-configured into four larger ones?

If I am correct with my speculation, why go to the expense to re-configure, unless there will shortly be a need for larger Stands?

We may have to wait for another NOTAM in about 3 weeks time for all to be revealed.

apologies TCAS as no idea what happened there lol. Definitely looks like works going on and larger stands would be the guess. Maybe we can expect some airline news at some point?

[RW20]

I guess it would poor planning if they hadnt rejigged the stands,even if there is no immediate news on incoming 320 operations.

[LTNman]

No point in doing only half the job. Stand 1 looked tight anyway

https://i.imgur.com/irceE7F.jpg

[Sotonsean]

No point in doing only half the job. Stand 1 looked tight anyway

https://i.imgur.com/irceE7F.jpg

Stand 1 may look tight but it's been in use on a daily basis with no issues since 1991, when the "new" terminal was completed.

Unlike Stands 2-5, Stand 1 is only used for smaller aircraft such as the ATR and similar sized aircraft.

Stand 1 won't be realigned like Stands 2-5. The area currently occupied by Stand 1 is part of the airports planned terminal extension. (Whenever that gets started)

[LTNman]

So this closure is really just for new paint markings to be applied with SOU ending up with stands 1-4 then 6 onwards or for continuity the stands will start at stand 2?

By contrast Luton has more stand markings than simultaneously usable stands for flexibility allowing more aircraft to use more stands when the aircraft are smaller, as can be seen by the centre line arrows. Would Southampton not do this leaving them with a 4/5 stand arrangement? Best of both world then.

https://i.imgur.com/4eSR0sS.jpg

[Sotonsean]

So this closure is really just for new paint markings to be applied with SOU ending up with stands 1-4 then 6 onwards or for continuity the stands will start at stand 2?

By contrast Luton has more stand markings than simultaneously usable stands for flexibility allowing more aircraft to use more stands when the aircraft are smaller, as can be seen by the centre line arrows. Would Southampton not do this leaving them with a 4/5 stand arrangement? Best of both world then.

https://i.imgur.com/4eSR0sS.jpg

We're have to see when the works are completed. No good speculating at this stage because nothing has been confirmed regarding the recent notam. What we are aware of is that stands 2-5 are eventually going to be realigned.

Without going into too much detail I suggest that you search online as there are diagrams showing the new stands including the supposed relocation of stand 1.

A lot of airports troughout the world have the same flexible stands as you have pointed out in your post. It's not just your local airport. For various reasons I can't see Southampton having a similar arrangement to be honest.

[SouthernAlliance]

I know it’s been said many a time before but Eastern are truly shocking. Once again the ORY is delayed because their aircraft is being positioned in after the scheduled departure and 2.5hrs late. This happens on a regular basis and how anyone can book this route with any certainty is beyond me!

[Albert Hall]

If you think that's bad, you should see their E190 operation for ITA Airways out of Milan to London City. I think it's flown 2 days out of the last 7 - it's really bad. Far more flights cancelled than ever fly.

[TCAS FAN]

Stand 1 may look tight but it's been in use on a daily basis with no issues since 1991, when the "new" terminal was completed.

Unlike Stands 2-5, Stand 1 is only used for smaller aircraft such as the ATR and similar sized aircraft.

When originally built Stand 1 was a full size Stand. Sometime after completion of the Terminal the large building to the west of it, I believe called "Solent House", was constructed which required reduction of Stand 1 size.

[Le Tirer]

Can anyone confirm what stand 13 is marked as on the ground. From Google Maps all the other stands are clearly numbered 1 - 12 & 14 but stand 13 looks more like BEA. Are they avoiding 'unlucky' 13?

Also the map used by Planefinder labels all the stands apart from stand 6!

LT

[SouthernAlliance]

Can anyone confirm what stand 13 is marked as on the ground. From Google Maps all the other stands are clearly numbered 1 - 12 & 14 but stand 13 looks more like BEA. Are they avoiding 'unlucky' 13?

Also the map used by Planefinder labels all the stands apart from stand 6!

LT

Fly BEA is a luxury charter airline to the Channel Islands

[SWBKCB]

Fly BEA is a luxury charter airline to the Channel Islands = air taxi company

[Le Tirer]

Thanks SouthernAlliance and SWBKCB for the replies.

I have heard of BEA (Britsh European Airways) and Birmingham Executive Airways (later Birmingham European Airways) from the distant past! I wasn't aware of FlyBEA (British European Aviation) but I see from their website they have been at SOU since July 2021 using the Heli Air AOC. I guess I was right in saying the stand has been marked as BEA rather than 13?

LT

[Sotonsean]

When originally built Stand 1 was a full size Stand. Sometime after completion of the Terminal the large building to the west of it, I believe called "Solent House", was constructed which required reduction of Stand 1 size.

Yeah sure I'm aware of that fact but I didn't find it necessary to add that information in my previous post.

[TCAS FAN]

Can anyone confirm what stand 13 is marked as on the ground. From Google Maps all the other stands are clearly numbered 1 - 12 & 14 but stand 13 looks more like BEA. Are they avoiding 'unlucky' 13?

Also the map used by Planefinder labels all the stands apart from stand 6!

LT

The current Google Earth imagery was taken in March 2022, so how current is it?

The UK AIP lists Stands 1-14 as available. The current AIP Parking/Docking Chart also shows Stands 13 and 14.

If the lead in markings still show "BEA" and it is to be a permanent feature an appropriate change needs to be made to the AIP. If the markings are temporary it should be notified via NOTAM. Either way AGS have a legal obligation to ensure that aerodrome information is kept current.

[Rivet Joint]

I know it’s been said many a time before but Eastern are truly shocking. Once again the ORY is delayed because their aircraft is being positioned in after the scheduled departure and 2.5hrs late. This happens on a regular basis and how anyone can book this route with any certainty is beyond me!

Today’s flight was 11 hours late. New record?

[SouthernAlliance]

We're have to see when the works are completed. No good speculating at this stage because nothing has been confirmed regarding the recent notam. What we are aware of is that stands 2-5 are eventually going to be realigned.

Without going into too much detail I suggest that you search online as there are diagrams showing the new stands including the supposed relocation of stand 1.

A lot of airports troughout the world have the same flexible stands as you have pointed out in your post. It's not just your local airport. For various reasons I can't see Southampton having a similar arrangement to be honest.

Have seen it posted elsewhere that the NOTAM is indeed for stand realignment and will utilise a standard 1-4 configuration with no flexible capability

[Sotonsean]

Eastern Airways T3243 to Paris Orly scheduled for 06.30 got airborne at 10.59.

That's almost a 4.5 hour delay.

Other posters have mentioned the same situation occurring almost on a daily basis.

We have to ask ourselves or more to the point Eastern Airways have to ask themselves, "what the heck is going on"?

Eastern Airways are indeed an embarrassment of an airline, they are a total shambles. We can only hope that at some point Air France might resume their own flights between Paris CDG to Southampton.

Southampton Airport and the passenger's that use it need a more reliable airline than the totally pathetic Eastern Airways.

I was looking for flights departing this week to Paris Orly. Examples I came across were £288 single compared to flying with British Airways from LHR to CDG for £89 (even cheaper if I was to use my Avios miles). I'm not even going to make any further comments regarding their ridiculous pricing policy.

[cavokblues]

I can't see the details for yesterday's flight but based on today and the last 4 flights on FR24 (not included the cancelled flight on the 30th September) the average delay is 2 hours 20 mins.

That's pretty appalling.

[SKOJB]

A good friend of mine works as route development for Easyjet, I caught up with him the other day and asked him about Southampton. He advised that AGS has not had any communication with them recently reference expanding from Southampton, the last communication they had was to do with the Belfast and Glasgow routes.

Or negotiations for next summer have already taken place/been agreed several months ago and there is nothing at present to discuss? Just a thought and could of course be wrong!

[RW20]

People will be looking to plan there holiday for next year in the next few weeks,so if there is any airline that is going to operate to any sun routes next year,anouncements are needed pronto! .Its not going to be Easy holidays as they are already in place .Only W patterns from certain airfields that have based aircraft is possible(like winter Geneva).
As time goes on its not looking to be that hopeful,however theres 2025 to look forward to.

[TCAS FAN]

People will be looking to plan there holiday for next year in the next few weeks,so if there is any airline that is going to operate to any sun routes next year,anouncements are needed pronto! .Its not going to be Easy holidays as they are already in place .Only W patterns from certain airfields that have based aircraft is possible(like winter Geneva).
As time goes on it’s not looking to be that hopeful,however theres 2025 to look forward to.

My understanding is that projected PAX figures for 2023 are 800K and 1 million in 2024.

Am cautiously confident that the 2024 figure is not something that has been plucked from the air and consequently there is something yet to be announced. Guess that we will have to be patient.

Sincerely doubt that the 200K increase is coming from Eastern’s ORY service!

[LTNman]

https://www.eastleighnews.co.uk/2023/10/southampton-airport-consultative-committee-to-meet-on-friday/

The next meeting of Southampton Airport Consultative Committee (https://meetings.eastleigh.gov.uk/documents/g7128/Agenda%20frontsheet%20Friday%2006-Oct-2023%2014.00%20Airport%20Consultative%20Committee.pdf?T=0) will take place at 2 pm on Friday, October 6


The session is scheduled to include a detailed presentation from the interim director of airport operations, focusing on the airport’s present trading and operational status. In particular the impact of the recently completed 164-metre extension to the airport’s runway (https://www.eastleighnews.co.uk/tag/southampton-airport/).


Eastleigh residents are encouraged to attend the meeting to gain insights into the airport’s strategic initiatives and voice their opinions on matters impacting the community.


This would have been the ideal meeting to announce new routes together with a press release yet nothing with not even a hint of pending new routes coming out of the meeting it would seem. I am also somewhat surprised that no one from this thread appears to have attended.

[SWBKCB]

Airlines usually decide when new routes get announced

[BA318]

https://www.eastleighnews.co.uk/2023/10/southampton-airport-consultative-committee-to-meet-on-friday/

This would have been the ideal meeting to announce new routes together with a press release yet nothing with not even a hint of pending new routes coming out of the meeting it would seem. I am also somewhat surprised that no one from this thread appears to have attended.

I can't think of a single route announced to a consultative committee. Airlines and the airport's PR department will decide on the timing. Usually something that will maximise attention or works best for both sides. A consultative committee of staff and local councillors/busybodies is very low down the list.

[SouthernAlliance]

A certain someone seems to be stirring the pot again. I’m pretty confident something will be announced shortly and if the airports target of 1m for 2024 has any likelihood of being achieved!

[SouthernAlliance]

For info, Technical Working Group meeting held on 31/08 and from the notes it states the airports then Ops Dir expected an airline to announce in October. Guess this aligns with other posters comments

[cavokblues]

ACL's slot allocation for summer '24 should be out this week. Whilst not definitive I would say it will be a very strong indicator as to whether anything will be happening next summer.

[TCAS FAN]

A certain someone seems to be stirring the pot again. I’m pretty confident something will be announced shortly and if the airports target of 1m for 2024 has any likelihood of being achieved!

Totally agree with the first sentence, just topping up the near constant stream of drivel flowing down the M1. Wish I could bottle he/she/it’s posts, I’d have award winning roses!

With invariably a public attendance that could be counted on one hand or less, and not something that regularly attracts media coverage, the Consultative Committee meetings are definitely not the preferred method of first announcing new routes/operator. The term “press release” springs to mind?

[RW20]

Totally agree with the first sentence, just topping up the near constant stream of drivel flowing down the M1. Wish I could bottle he/she/it’s posts, I’d have award winning roses!

With invariably a public attendance that could be counted on one hand or less, and not something that regularly attracts media coverage, the Consultative Committee meetings are definitely not the preferred method of first announcing new routes/operator. The term “press release” springs to mind?
TCAS FAN
Everybody talking about Summer routes,but given the new declared distances,surely the Canaries is a winter possibility in the future?

[TCAS FAN]

TCAS FAN
Everybody talking about Summer routes,but given the new declared distances,surely the Canaries is a winter possibility in the future?

I am not qualified to provide a conclusive answer, however making a simplistic calculation the A320 Neo is shown as having a range of 3500 NM off a 1951M runway.

The direct distance SOU/TFS is 1537 NM. With weight allowances for hold/diversion factored in it would appear to me that SOU/TFS is commercially possible, especially with the lower winter temperatures.

[RW20]

Many thanks TCAS FAN, as I thought a clear potential destination from SOU,given the popularity of the Canaries.

[Flitefone]

I am not qualified to provide a conclusive answer, however making a simplistic calculation the A320 Neo is shown as having a range of 3500 NM off a 1951M runway.

The direct distance SOU/TFS is 1537 NM. With weight allowances for hold/diversion factored in it would appear to me that SOU/TFS is commercially possible, especially with the lower winter temperatures.

The devil is in the detail, I’ve seen but can’t share the estimates using Airbus/Boeing data - mainland Spain and Italy works without payload limits for the A320 ceo/neo.

More of a challenge for the Max. Faro is about the limit. The A321 is even more constrained unless payload limits used. BCN is about the limit.

The Canaries and Turkey are marginal even for the 320 and a non-starter for the Max and 321

Even so, that’s a lot of summer potential for the airport with the A320. Winter sun routes remain difficult. Keep on skiing! Its nearer to home.

FF

[Rivet Joint]

With the stands being realigned for bigger aircraft I think we can be confident an announcement isn’t too far off. Maybe a low cost operator has laid down a list of requirements that need to be actioned before they move in, such as the work to the stands.

Even if you don’t subscribe to rumours or educated guesses, there are two simple facts at play here. One is that SOU is clearly making the changes needed to accommodate a low cost operator and two that the London airports are likely going be back to being maxed out next summer. Growth will need to come from the likes of SOU.

On a final note isn’t it refreshing to not have any car park fires leading to the full closure of the airport :E

[davidjohnson6]

On a final note isn’t it refreshing to not have any car park fires leading to the full closure of the airport :E
Don't jinx it !

[SWBKCB]

On a final note isn’t it refreshing to not have any car park fires leading to the full closure of the airport

This thread truly represents the worse in people in society today. Rather than rally around the positive people and build a community we have glass half full malcontents trying to make others feel as sad and lonely as themselves.

Oh dear...

[SKOJB]

Could Jet2 be an option as heard them mentioned as an airline the airport may go after? Have no idea personally but guess it would match a LCC come tour operator

[ATNotts]

Could Jet2 be an option as heard them mentioned as an airline the airport may go after? Have no idea personally but guess it would match a LCC come tour operator
Doesn't the already comprehensively discussed 738 performance limitations make Jet2 unlikely unless / until they take delivery of A320s?

Not being critical or negative in any way. Jet2 could be really good for the airport.

[cavokblues]

With the stands being realigned for bigger aircraft I think we can be confident an announcement isn’t too far off. Maybe a low cost operator has laid down a list of requirements that need to be actioned before they move in, such as the work to the stands.

Even if you don’t subscribe to rumours or educated guesses, there are two simple facts at play here. One is that SOU is clearly making the changes needed to accommodate a low cost operator and two that the London airports are likely going be back to being maxed out next summer. Growth will need to come from the likes of SOU.

On a final note isn’t it refreshing to not have any car park fires leading to the full closure of the airport :E

An announcement may well be coming but I don't think work to the stands is necessarily a sign it is imminent. In the grand scheme of things, realigning a few stands is a fairly straightforward operation considering any announcement would be for operations starting in 2024, so I'm sceptical an airline would he holding back announcing because of that.

Similarly, disagree re London's market and potential implications. Southend isn't full whatsoever and won't be next year with capacity there for an extra 2 million at least. Stansted isn't anywhere near full, I think it can take 30m+ on current infrastructure.

But I don't think Southampton's future is dependent on the London market.

[Sotonsean]

An announcement may well be coming but I don't think work to the stands is necessarily a sign it is imminent. In the grand scheme of things, realigning a few stands is a fairly straightforward operation considering any announcement would be for operations starting in 2024, so I'm sceptical an airline would he holding back announcing because of that.

Similarly, disagree re London's market and potential implications. Southend isn't full whatsoever and won't be next year with capacity there for an extra 2 million at least. Stansted isn't anywhere near full, I think it can take 30m+ on current infrastructure.

But I don't think Southampton's future is dependent on the London market.

Absolutely spot on, I couldn't agree more regarding your excellent reply 👍

[vectisman]

[QUOTE=Rivet Joint;11518967]With the stands being realigned for bigger aircraft I think we can be confident an announcement isn’t too far off. Maybe a low cost operator has laid down a list of requirements that need to be actioned before they move in, such as the work to the stands.

Even if you don’t subscribe to rumours or educated guesses, there are two simple facts at play here. One is that SOU is clearly making the changes needed to accommodate a low cost operator and two that the London airports are likely going be back to being maxed out next summer. Growth will need to come from the likes of SOU.

On a final note isn’t it refreshing to not have any car park fires leading to the full closure of the airport :E[/QUOTE

Your final remark is appalling in light of circumstances! Please don’t give the excuse it was meant as humour. Completely out of order! A new low for the Southampton thread.

[ATNotts]

Well I read it as satire / black humour.

These days there appears to be a total loss of the humour gene, unless its harmless 'banana skin' stuff.

[SWBKCB]

Well I read it as satire / black humour.

These days there appears to be a total loss of the humour gene, unless its harmless 'banana skin' stuff.

I think the point is one poster here got pilloried and insulted for making humourous comments. I read it as hypocrisy.

[LTNman]

On a final note isn’t it refreshing to not have any car park fires leading to the full closure of the airport :E

vectisman replied

Your final remark is appalling in light of circumstances! Please don’t give the excuse it was meant as humour. Completely out of order! A new low for the Southampton thread.

The comment was aimed at me but I found it funny. I think vectisman is just being rather silly with his indignation so carry on.

Mind you, it wasn't as funny as my greenhouse and potting shed comment that went down like a led balloon. The comments here had me in stitches, as there was intense anger from some folk, who should have just ignored it.

[Rivet Joint]

I think the point is one poster here got pilloried and insulted for making humourous comments. I read it as hypocrisy.

Hmm, one comment in retaliation of months and months of negative comments from a poster that has clearly evidenced that he has no affiliation with the airport this thread is associated with? Where are your posts objecting to his much larger amount of negative comments? Odd person.

Oh and Vectis give your head a wobble. It was clearly a joke and making light of the fact that the fire had resulted in this thread being unusually free of its Luton based pessimist. No one died in the fire I might add. You might want to look in the news to see things that are actually worthy of such reaction.

Cavok, I didn’t say an announcement was imminent. I said that evidence suggest SOU is making moves that could lead to it materialising. Also, I obviously wasn’t including SEN in my London airports reference. They like SOU benefit from the big London airports reaching capacity. Also Stansted might not be at capacity but it’s still very busy and a pain to use.

[RW20]

With the stands being realigned for bigger aircraft I think we can be confident an announcement isn’t too far off. Maybe a low cost operator has laid down a list of requirements that need to be actioned before they move in, such as the work to the stands.

Even if you don’t subscribe to rumours or educated guesses, there are two simple facts at play here. One is that SOU is clearly making the changes needed to accommodate a low cost operator and two that the London airports are likely going be back to being maxed out next summer. Growth will need to come from the likes of SOU.

On a final note isn’t it refreshing to not have any car park fires leading to the full closure of the airport :E

it would be total nonsense if the stands werent realigned,given the new declared distances.The airport will then be prepared for 320 operations when they happen.
Airlines decide routes accordingly to demand,that demand is the key factor for SOU progress.


​​

[SouthernAlliance]

it would be total nonsense if the stands werent realigned,given the new declared distances.The airport will then be prepared for 320 operations when they happen.
Airlines decide routes accordingly to demand,that demand is the key factor for SOU progress.


​​

Everybody says it cannot happen but I still have a sneaky the airport may see some 737 action as well. Just that good old gut feeling I have and its not my IBS!

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

With the stands being realigned for bigger aircraft I think we can be confident an announcement isn’t too far off. Maybe a low cost operator has laid down a list of requirements that need to be actioned before they move in, such as the work to the stands.
Even if you don’t subscribe to rumours or educated guesses, there are two simple facts at play here. One is that SOU is clearly making the changes needed to accommodate a low cost operator and two that the London airports are likely going be back to being maxed out next summer. Growth will need to come from the likes of SOU.
On a final note isn’t it refreshing to not have any car park fires leading to the full closure of the airport :E
Growth in this market can come from using bigger aircraft, easyJet are moving from away from A319s to A320/A321, Ryanair have 20% more seats in the MAX vs. the B737-800. So on a per movement basis, there is still quite some scope for growth at LGW and STN. For example LHR was declared full in 1977 and has continued to grow ever since using ever larger aircraft. What that does mean is that the likes of SEN and SOU will have to do more than just wait for the other London airports to max out. The old SOU model of higher cost, high frequency business traffic on low volume aircraft may well have seen it's best days behind us now, and a move towards high volume low cost, low frequency won't come easily. I am not convinced SEN will ever make money again now that bubble has popped, it wiil be interesting to see how SOU manage the upcoming changes.

[MARKEYD]

Having worked in Jersey for the last three years at the airport a local travel company
Fly Direct
operated weekly charters to TFS using Smartwings B738 and Max B73M although the flight was capped at 155 passengers and baggage was standard at 23 kg per pax
The aircraft managed quite easily on the 5594ft runway

[cavokblues]

Has the new TODA at Southampton been confirmed yet? Jersey's has hardly any obstacles off 26 so performance not as inhibited as it may be at Southampton.

[SouthernAlliance]

Just a thought, could the 300 series work performance wise with Jet2? They have a year or two left in them and carry 150 pax so maybe an option, although locals might not be so keen with increased noise levels

[TCAS FAN]

Has the new TODA at Southampton been confirmed yet? Jersey's has hardly any obstacles off 26 so performance not as inhibited as it may be at Southampton.

RWY 20 TODA now 1875M. Unfortunately it does not have the luxury of Jersey's RWY 26 which has no significant obstacles allowing declaration of up to half TORA as a clearway, giving Jersey a whopping TODA 2472 M,

[SWBKCB]

With the stands being realigned for bigger aircraft I think we can be confident an announcement isn’t too far off.

Cavok, I didn’t say an announcement was imminent.

Oh dear...

[cavokblues]

RWY 20 TODA now 1875M. Unfortunately it does not have the luxury of Jersey's RWY 26 which has no significant obstacles allowing declaration of up to half TORA as a clearway, giving Jersey a whopping TODA 2472 M,

Quite a considerable difference. But the new TODA of 1875m is larger than Southend's, although TORA at Southampton marginally smaller. Southend saw flights to canary islands....

[RW20]

Quite a considerable difference. But the new TODA of 1875m is larger than Southend's, although TORA at Southampton marginally smaller. Southend saw flights to canary islands....
Isnt Southend Tora 1799,mtrs,SOU 1814mtrs?

[cavokblues]

I must have the old charts :oh:

[TCAS FAN]

I must have the old charts :oh:

Try the latest issue of the UK AIP, AIRAC 12:
https://www.aurora.nats.co.uk/htmlAIP/Publications/2023-11-30-AIRAC/html/index-en-GB.html
Part 2 Aerodromes, scroll down to Southampton for the latest declared distances and the new Aerodrome Chart which depicts the extended runway.

[TCAS FAN]

Isnt Southend Tora 1799,mtrs,SOU 1814mtrs?

Comparing SOU RWY 20 and SEN RWY 23, SOU's declared distances are all greater than SEN, albeit that the LDA is only 1 metre greater.

[TCAS FAN]

Just a thought, could the 300 series work performance wise with Jet2? They have a year or two left in them and carry 150 pax so maybe an option, although locals might not be so keen with increased noise levels

We've come a long way with noise, still remember the Mon-Fri BUA BAC 1-11 departures to GLA - that was real noise!

[SotonFlightpath]

We've come a long way with noise, still remember the Mon-Fri BUA BAC 1-11 departures to GLA - that was real noise!
Yes, I remember it well! The afternoon departure usually coincided with arriving home from School and Mum always referred to it as the ‘Four O’Clock Earthquake!’

[SouthernAlliance]

We've come a long way with noise, still remember the Mon-Fri BUA BAC 1-11 departures to GLA - that was real noise!

In which case, base a couple of 300 series down from LBA and offer jet2 holidays to a dozen destinations, job done lol!

[Rivet Joint]

Growth in this market can come from using bigger aircraft, easyJet are moving from away from A319s to A320/A321, Ryanair have 20% more seats in the MAX vs. the B737-800. So on a per movement basis, there is still quite some scope for growth at LGW and STN. For example LHR was declared full in 1977 and has continued to grow ever since using ever larger aircraft. What that does mean is that the likes of SEN and SOU will have to do more than just wait for the other London airports to max out. The old SOU model of higher cost, high frequency business traffic on low volume aircraft may well have seen it's best days behind us now, and a move towards high volume low cost, low frequency won't come easily. I am not convinced SEN will ever make money again now that bubble has popped, it wiil be interesting to see how SOU manage the upcoming changes.

Correct to some extent but good luck getting new aircraft anytime soon. Slots are at a premium especially for the A321. EZY just put a new order to their board that won’t see its first aircraft until 2029.

Also I don’t think SOU envisage a largish base and nor will any prospective operators. The likes of LGW, STN etc are a pain in many ways and when ever anyone uses them they suck up the fact it’s going to involve a lot of waiting, hassle etc but on balance they can bear it to get the cheap ticket. SOU is more about convenience and being a quick and hassle free experience. As a result people are happy to pay a bit more for that privilege. A smallish but decent low cost carrier base should still deliver this experience provided the right changes are made to facilitate it. So far we have seen with the runway extension and stand realignment. Maybe next is improvements to the security, baggage, northern taxiway etc and eventually the terminal expansion? SOU gives a low cost operator the opportunity to go after a different market and also charge more for tickets. Is it really that hard to see why this might be attractive to them?

I am not familiar with when SEN started to decline but was it not around the time covid hit? If so, of course being an ancillary operation to the main London airports (like SOU would be) it lost its routes whilst operators retrenched to smaller bases at the large airports.

[RW20]

Correct to some extent but good luck getting new aircraft anytime soon. Slots are at a premium especially for the A321. EZY just put a new order to their board that won’t see its first aircraft until 2029.

Also I don’t think SOU envisage a largish base and nor will any prospective operators. The likes of LGW, STN etc are a pain in many ways and when ever anyone uses them they suck up the fact it’s going to involve a lot of waiting, hassle etc but on balance they can bear it to get the cheap ticket. SOU is more about convenience and being a quick and hassle free experience. As a result people are happy to pay a bit more for that privilege. A smallish but decent low cost carrier base should still deliver this experience provided the right changes are made to facilitate it. So far we have seen with the runway extension and stand realignment. Maybe next is improvements to the security, baggage, northern taxiway etc and eventually the terminal expansion? SOU gives a low cost operator the opportunity to go after a different market and also charge more for tickets. Is it really that hard to see why this might be attractive to them?

I am not familiar with when SEN started to decline but was it not around the time covid hit? If so, of course being an ancillary operation to the main London airports (like SOU would be) it lost its routes whilst operators retrenched to smaller bases at the large airports.
Arrived back on Saturday 14/10 ( with BA Cityflyer from Palma,bang on time 19-40),a few observations : first we parked on the new stands in the cul-de -sac,certainly bigger,
ground crew were excellent ,left the terminal with cases by 20-05!. Im not sure the arrivals international will cope if two 320s were in,as there isnt alot of room in the passport control. Cityflyer were excellent,its a shame that they coudnt establish a full Summer base from the airport,maybe advertising wasnt up to scratch

[uptoncol]

Arrived back on Saturday 14/10 ( with BA Cityflyer from Palma,bang on time 19-40),a few observations : first we parked on the new stands in the cul-de -sac,certainly bigger,
ground crew were excellent ,left the terminal with cases by 20-05!. Im not sure the arrivals international will cope if two 320s were in,as there isnt alot of room in the passport control. Cityflyer were excellent,its a shame that they coudnt establish a full Summer base from the airport,maybe advertising wasnt up to scratch

l was also on that flight last night ,Excellent I think that’s the fastest I have ever been from landing ,waiting for luggage and outside in 25 minutes.

[SWBKCB]

How many other flights were in?

[SouthernAlliance]

How many other flights were in?

I think we know the answer to that

[Sotonsean]

We've come a long way with noise. Still remember the Mon-Fri BUA BAC 1-11 departures to GLA - that was real noise!

I'm just picking up on that story as it brings back happy memories from that era. Nostalgia is something that I am hugely interested in.

​​​​As we are fully aware, British United Airways was taken over by Caledonian Airways in 1970 to form British Caledonian Airways.

From 1970, British Caledonian Airways operated the GLA-SOU BAC 1-11 flights. In 1971, BCAL increased GLA-SOU to daily.

BUA introduced the BAC 1-11-200 on GLA-SOU in June 1968, replacing the Viscount 800, which previously operated the route. The route at that time operated daily except for Saturdays.

BCAL made huge cuts to their network in 1974, which included the axing of their GLA-SOU route. The Last BCAL GLA-SOU flight was in late September 1974

Cambrian Airways from 1971 operated a BAC 1-11-400 on their Cardiff-Bristol-Southampton-Paris Le Bourget-Southampton-Bristol-Cardiff routing. The airlines Viscount fleet originally operated this route before the BAC 1-11.

The Cambrian Airways BAC 1-11 used to fly into Southampton twice daily except for Saturdays. On both the outbound and inbound flights from Paris Le Bourget.

The BCAL BAC 1-11 from GLA would usually be on the ground at SOU in between the Cambrian Airways BAC 1-11 from Paris LBG. from 1971 to late September 1974, Southampton witnessed up to three daily BAC 1-11 movements.

CS 3707

CARDIFF 09.30
BRISTOL 09.50
BRISTOL 10.10
SOUTHAMPTON 10.40
SOUTHAMPTON 11.00
PARIS LBG 13.15 +1

CS 3708

PARIS LBG 15.00+1
SOUTHAMPTON 15.20
SOUTHAMPTON 15.40
BRISTOL 16.10
BRISTOL 16.30
CARDIFF 16.50

BR 841

GLASGOW 12.05
SOUTHAMPTON 13.20
SOUTHAMPTON 14.00
GLASGOW 15.10

From 1975 until 1980, there was the very occasional visit of a British Airways BAC 1-11-400 operating on their Jersey to Southampton route.

I can remember the Cambrian Airways and BCAL BAC 1-11s flying over our house when I was a young lad. My friends and I would then often cycle to the airport to witness their departures. On a couple of occasions, both the Cambrian and BCAL BAC 1-11s were on the ground together.

On a side note, it is related to the BAC 1-11. I can vividly remember in the late 1970s seeing two British Airways BAC 1-11s and three British Airways Viscounts on the ground together at SOU due to a strike at LHR. It was a Sunday if I remember correctly. The apron was rather busy on that particular day along with the usual BIA Herald movements.

[Sotonsean]

I wanted to post this CGI that I just came across online. I'm not making any suggestions or getting carried away but it makes for an interesting image.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x837/20230930114939_1_1_scaled_4e2d592952de7677d84a5cd790f2d4f161 820c79.jpg

[adfly]

It is from here: https://fselite.net/content/review-inibuilds-southampton/ It's an impressive rendering of the airport that's for sure.

[Sotonsean]

It is from here: https://fselite.net/content/review-inibuilds-southampton/ It's an impressive rendering of the airport that's for sure.

It sure is as are all of the others 👍

You were extremely quick with the response. Good for you 👍

I was half expecting the first response to be from one of several contributors to this forum who regularly posts rumours. I was looking forward to their great fanfare. You've ruined the party now 😉

[Retired LAE]

I also landed back at Southampton on the earlier Palma flight on Saturday 14/10. As my wife and I only had hand baggage we were driving out of the airport within 15 mins - bliss! BA Cityflyer excellent. Already booked twice with them next year..

[rustythumb]

This just popped up in my news feed... https://www.eastleighnews.co.uk/2023/10/airport-owner-reveals-june-deadline-for-757-million-debt-repayment/

[RW20]

Pax figures for August are around 75000,it seems the airport cant move above this ,unless further airlines come in. With AGS perdicament things are not brillant.
Good news needed urgently.

[Buster the Bear]

Been off line a while. Which routes and airlines have been announced post runway extension? Where new can I fly from Eastleigh?

[LTNman]

No one dare post the answer in fear of being accused of being a troll but silence will be the clue.

It will happen, it’s just a case of waiting.

[SWBKCB]

From Pprune Forum rules

No flaming/personal attacks. (Play the ball, not the player.)

[Aero Mad]

From Pprune Forum rules

In fairness, this is a pretty representative example of what Buster has missed.

The tone on PPRuNe has become coarser in recent years, and it's become a less interesting website as a result. Perhaps this creeping lack of civility reflects wider developments within society, but I for one now post a great deal less than I used to - there's just no point feeding the trolls. I do wish the admins would take a harder line; in the 'good old days' posts much milder than #2166 (now deleted - mods) used to get people banned permanently. A freeze on the Southampton thread for a couple of months might also do the trick.

[Sotonsean]

In fairness, this is a pretty representative example of what Buster has missed.

The tone on PPRuNe has become coarser in recent years, and it's become a less interesting website as a result. Perhaps this creeping lack of civility reflects wider developments within society, but I for one now post a great deal less than I used to - there's just no point feeding the trolls. I do wish the admins would take a harder line; in the 'good old days' posts much milder than #2166 (now deleted - mods) used to get people banned permanently. A freeze on the Southampton thread for a couple of months might also do the trick.

And a freeze on the Southampton thread for a couple of months would make no difference in my opinion. Currently there is nothing to write about regarding Southampton so a total freeze might be a good thing. Perhaps in a couple of months when it's unfrozen there might and I say it again might be something to write about.

Those who generally post on the Southampton thread do so because they have a valid interest in their local airport. The problem with pprune over the last few years is that threads and not only the Southampton thread are being taken over and hijacked by those who have no valid interest in the Airport in question. I can't explain why they do it but there are certain individuals who are purely here for opportunistic purposes only.

If you have been following the threads over the last couple of years and in particular the Southampton thread then surely you can relate to my last sentence.

[Rivet Joint]

And a freeze on the Southampton thread for a couple of months would make no difference in my opinion. Currently there is nothing to write about regarding Southampton so a total freeze might be a good thing. Perhaps in a couple of months when it's unfrozen there might and I say it again might be something to write about.

Those who generally post on the Southampton thread do so because they have a valid interest in their local airport. The problem with pprune over the last few years is that threads and not only the Southampton thread are being taken over and hijacked by those who have no valid interest in the Airport in question. I can't explain why they do it but there are certain individuals who are purely here for opportunistic purposes only.

If you have been following the threads over the last couple of years and in particular the Southampton thread then surely you can relate to my last sentence.

Very well said. I like you feel it’s very obvious which posts are only made in the interest of antagonising people. There is no news at the moment which isn’t that unusual and as this is a forum people should feel free to post thoughts or rumours without receiving abuse. I do not see this on any other threads on this forum. If you freeze the thread you let them win. The only solution in the absence of moderation is for the reasonable people on here to not bite when a post such as 2166 is made. Don’t give them the attention they are craving and they will get the message.

In fairness, this is a pretty representative example of what Buster has missed.

The tone on PPRuNe has become coarser in recent years, and it's become a less interesting website as a result. Perhaps this creeping lack of civility reflects wider developments within society, but I for one now post a great deal less than I used to - there's just no point feeding the trolls. I do wish the admins would take a harder line; in the 'good old days' posts much milder than #2166 used to get people banned permanently. A freeze on the Southampton thread for a couple of months might also do the trick.

I agree, certainly visit this thread a lot less now and the purpose of moderation is to stop this happening. I could give at least three names of people who shouldn’t be allowed to post on this forum any more or at least given a final warning.

[Sotonsean]

Very well said. I like you feel it’s very obvious which posts are only made in the interest of antagonising people. There is no news at the moment which isn’t that unusual and as this is a forum people should feel free to post thoughts or rumours without receiving abuse. I do not see this on any other threads on this forum. If you freeze the thread you let them win. The only solution in the absence of moderation is for the reasonable people on here to not bite when a post such as 2166 is made. Don’t give them the attention they are craving and they will get the message.



I agree, certainly visit this thread a lot less now and the purpose of moderation is to stop this happening. I could give at least three names of people who shouldn’t be allowed to post on this forum any more or at least given a final warning.

Many thanks for your comments regarding my recent post, it's appreciated.

And I totally agree with your comments as well, absolutely spot on👍

See this is how it works or should do. Two individuals with a valid interest in Southampton Airport and both in agreement with each other.

Will it last I ask myself until we are infiltrated again 🤔

[Albert Hall]

You’ll see an announcement in early November. Not as big or flashy as expected and probably a “was that what we were waiting for?” reaction.

[Sotonsean]

You’ll see an announcement in early November. Not as big or flashy as expected and probably a “was that what we were waiting for?” reaction.

Now Albert, I hope that you're not stringing us along with this latest statement. Or are you preparing us for yet another disappointment 😞

The only thing that I can think of is, if any announcement is to be made, why does it have to be made in early November? Why hasn't an announcement already been made.

Whatever this so-called announcement is, it can't be that important. Otherwise, I'm sure that those concerned could have made it by now. The day of the official opening of the extended runway would and should have been the ideal time.

I have to ask, and I'm only guessing by your comments, "was that what we're waiting for?" If any announcement is made in early November it might well be a confirmation of Loganair on MAN to SOU.

If everything is believed I'm sure that I'm not alone in looking forward to any such announcement being made in early November.

[Petersfield]

Fair to say thar the larger parking bays probably aren't for a LM plane. What with BA Cityflyer having so few routes next year an opportunity may very well be there for someone else.

[shamrock7seal]

Rumour on the Ryanair thread of DUB being served from SOU next summer. No indication of frequency.

[RW20]

Rumour on the Ryanair thread of DUB being served from SOU next summer. No indication of frequency.
Wow ,Ryanair has established a strong increasing base at BOH ,they are not in the slightest interested in Southampton,which they have confirmed many times before!

[LTNman]

Hmm, that wasn’t a rumour but an opinion, unless I have ready the wrong post.

My money would be on the odd low frequency Med route(s) to Norwich, Humberside or Inverness, perhaps Dublin-Southampton now they have their runway extension.
​​​​​​​

[Sharklet_321]

This works best if said in an Irish accent: ‘There’s more chance of pigs flying out of your ar*e, than Ryanair flying out of Southampton’

[SKOJB]

Agreed this is all speculation and rumour, however we have become accustomed to expecting the unexpected from RYR over the years so I guess never say never. They may wish to remove Aer Lingus from this route and introduce a daily connection utilising excellent ground transportation, something BOH will never provide!

[Albert Hall]

One of the most ridiculous debates on here for some time. There is a rumour about Ryanair launching a new UK airport, someone says that their money would be on SOU-DUB without any foundation that it's even a rumour, and it becomes a rumour. What a total load of tosh.

The Ryanair @ Norwich rumour seems to be an actual rumour and given that they already fly at two of the three airports in the same group - BOH and EXT - this might be realistic.

But as for Ryanair on SOU-DUB, I'd not even waste the airspace to discuss it.

A limited easyJet programme at SOU for S24, on the other hand.....

[LTNman]

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2023-10-24/low-level-fog-causes-disruption-to-flights-at-airport


Low level fog has caused disruption to flights at Southampton Airport this morning (Tuesday 24 October).

The airport says 10 flights were affected up until 10am.

Many inbound flights have been diverted to Bristol and flights from the Channel Islands were forced to return.

Outbound flights have also been unable to take off.

Southampton Airport is advising passengers to contact their airlines for further information.


Now why would outbound flights be unable to take off unless it was particularly thick? What are the minimums for both take off and landings at either end with the new runway length?

[SWBKCB]

That low level fog is the worst sort! 👍

[Cazza_fly]

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2023-10-24/low-level-fog-causes-disruption-to-flights-at-airport




Now why would outbound flights be unable to take off unless it was particularly thick? What are the minimums for both take off and landings at either end with the new runway length?

Most outbound flights will have been on aircraft that needed to make an inbound landing... its the way its worded.

[EI-BUD]

One of the most ridiculous debates on here for some time. There is a rumour about Ryanair launching a new UK airport, someone says that their money would be on SOU-DUB without any foundation that it's even a rumour, and it becomes a rumour. What a total load of tosh.

The Ryanair @ Norwich rumour seems to be an actual rumour and given that they already fly at two of the three airports in the same group - BOH and EXT - this might be realistic.

But as for Ryanair on SOU-DUB, I'd not even waste the airspace to discuss it.

A limited easyJet programme at SOU for S24, on the other hand.....
Ryanair had scheduled services ex NWI in the past. I'd be inclined to agree that FR unlikely to turn up at SOU, however, it is tantalising for them, the prospect of getting onto a route operated by EI or Emerald. I mean they couldn't resist Kerry/ Dublin, which has awful loads at super low prices. Many more examples; NQY, CWL (ex BFS, now being axed) and a list more besides.

[adfly]

I've taken a couple of different weeks to get a rough idea of some frequency variations, but it is unlikely to be exact. Compared to last winter there is some notable extra capacity from Aer Lingus, easyJet and Loganair, although there are reductions from Eastern (I think, very hard to work out what they actually operated last winter as there was lots of chopping and changing) and Blue Islands (to Guernsey). There's also an increase from KLM (last winter wasn't a consistent 14 weekly service) and minor reduction from BA (Salzburg dropped). Overall it appears to be a step in the right direction.

Passenger numbers from Jan to Aug inclusive are presently 501,886 from the CAA stats, which I would guess (with my finger firmly in the wind) leads to a full year number in the region of 750,000, which is about a 20% increase on 2022.

Aer Lingus Regional

Belfast City - 13-19 weekly AT7
Dublin - 13 weekly AT7

Aurigny

Alderney - 14 weekly D28
Guernsey - 7 weekly AT7

BA Cityflyer

Bergerac - 1 weekly E90 (only a few dates)
Chambery - 2 weekly E90
Edinburgh - 1 weekly E90

Blue Islands

Guernsey - 9 weekly AT7
Jersey - 21 weekly AT7

Eastern Airways

Paris Orly - 7 weekly AT7

easyJet

Belfast International (New) - 3 weekly 320 (from 29/10)
Geneva - 6-7 weekly 320
Glasgow (New) - 2 weekly 319 (from 02/11)

KLM

Amsterdam - 14 weekly E75/E90

Loganair

Edinburgh - 21-25 weekly ER4
Glasgow - 21-24 weekly ER4
Newcastle - 12-13 weekly ER4


Summary

167 - 180 weekly departures
24 - 26 daily departures


For comparison's sake, here is the planned operation from the start of the last pre pandemic winter (W19/20):

Aurigny

Alderney - 14 weekly D28
Guernsey - 12-13 weekly AT4


easyJet Switzerland

Geneva - 2-3 weekly 319/20


Flybe (5-6 Q400 Based)

Amsterdam - 29-33 weekly Q400
Belfast City - 15 weekly Q400
Bergerac - 2-3 weekly Q400
Chambery - 2 weekly Q400
Dublin - 24 weekly Q400
Edinburgh - 26-27 weekly Q400/E75
Geneva - 3 weekly Q400
Glasgow - 25-27 weekly Q400
Guernsey - 19-25 weekly AT4/7 (Blue Islands)
Jersey - 30 weekly Q400 / AT4/7 (Blue Islands)
Leeds/Bradford - 15 weekly J41 (Eastern)
Manchester - 36 weekly Q400/E75
Newcastle - 16-18 weekly Q400
Paris CDG - 15 weekly Q400


Overall

Flybe weekly departures: 257-271 (W18/19 - 228-282)
Other airline weekly departures: 30-31 (W18/19 - 27-35)
Overall weekly departures: 287-302 (W18/19 - 255-317)
Overall average daily departures: 41-43 (W18/19 - 36-45)

[SKOJB]

Great work as always adfly. One glaring omission from todays schedule is MAN and wonder if this will return any time soon. There must be a need for it surely!

[ETOPS]

One glaring omission from todays schedule is MAN and wonder if this will return any time soon

Having done this by train recently I can confirm the CrossCountry journey takes 4hrs 15mins and isn’t very comfortable. Can’t believe this route hasn’t restarted..

[TartinTon]

Great work as always adfly. One glaring omission from todays schedule is MAN and wonder if this will return any time soon. There must be a need for it surely!

I thought Logan were in the frame for that route? Didn't they apply for a 3/4 a day slot pool on that route for Winter? Not enough aircraft available maybe?

[Sotonsean]

Does anyone have any further information regarding the recent works connected with the "cul-de-sac" and realignment of stands 1 to 5.

Nothing online or on the airports social media regarding the works taken out. I'd be interested to know if the works have been completed. I'm fully aware of the stands being realigned but I would also be interested to know what other changes were made.

With the realignment of stands 1 to 5 taking place I wonder if the next phase will include the construction of the northern taxiway 🤔

[jensdad]

Great stuff, adfly, thanks for posting.
The standout change for me as opposed to W19/20 is the reduction in Guernsey (a route I've used myself several times connecting from NCL) from between 31 & 38 per week to just 16 now? Very surprising to see.

[TCAS FAN]

Does anyone have any further information regarding the recent works connected with the "cul-de-sac" and realignment of stands 1 to 5.

Nothing online or on the airports social media regarding the works taken out. I'd be interested to know if the works have been completed. I'm fully aware of the stands being realigned but I would also be interested to know what other changes were made.

With the realignment of stands 1 to 5 taking place I wonder if the next phase will include the construction of the northern taxiway 🤔

As previously speculated on this thread, and confirmed by a current NOTAM, the area formerly used for Stands 1-5 has been re-configured into four Stands numbered 2-5, which have now been brought into use.

While dimensions have not as yet been formally published it is highly probable that these will accommodate simultaneous parking of A320/B737.

From the limited information provided by the NOTAM it would appear that new surface markings have been applied, but vertical Stand designator signage is still to be installed.

[Sotonsean]

As previously speculated on this thread, and confirmed by a current NOTAM, the area formerly used for Stands 1-5 has been re-configured into four Stands numbered 2-5, which have now been brought into use.

While dimensions have not as yet been formally published it is highly probable that these will accommodate simultaneous parking of A320/B737.

From the limited information provided by the NOTAM it would appear that new surface markings have been applied, but vertical Stand designator signage is still to be installed.

Many thanks for the quick response TCAS it's appreciated especially by yourself.

I had noticed the limited information provided by the NOTAM hence why I put out a request for any further information. It was the dimensions I was rather interested in. Also if any other changes were made such as the holding area's for airside equipment.

[adfly]

The ACL S24 capacity declaration gives some additional information. https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/SOU_S24_Capacities.pdf

States stands 2-5 are suitable for 737 6-900, A318-21, MD80-88 and the 757 (not convinced about the latter as it is a Code D aircraft vs Code C for the others, it's pretty irrelevant regardless).

EDIT: actually 2 and 3 and 5J-M and 4 and 5 are 5JW. If W = wide then maybe those stands are a little wider.

jensdad I am also surprised by this. I'm sure even last winter the frequency was more like 21-22 weekly.

[SouthernAlliance]

The airport has submitted another application for Marlhill Copse tree reduction/removal, this time adding weight by using the Civil Aviation Act and the need for obstacle clearance safety, this may go through!

[LTNman]

Some of those trees have preservation orders on them. If it was such an issue maybe they should have thought of that before commencing the extension?

[willy wombat]

Just because a tree has a TPO it doesn’t mean it can never be reduced in size or felled. It means you have to get permission to do so which may or may not be granted depending on the individual case.

[inOban]

Surely the trees in a copse would in the past have been regularly coppiced?

[SKOJB]

Flying over them in to 02 recently made me realise how close you are now to the tops of these trees. Something needs to be done!

[Sotonsean]

The reasons why these trees remain a constant issue is mainly due to the fact that the most contentious of people who were against the runway extension live within the area where the trees are located.

The residents of Marhill Way which is adjacent to Marlhill Copse. They have been opposed to the trees being shortened or cut down for years. This has been an ongoing situation with the residents of Marhill Way ever since I can remember.

But I honestly think that the trees concerned will eventually be dealt with in one way or another.

LTNman are you getting bored with commenting on Airport car park fire's. Or are trees the new you 🤔

[SWBKCB]

this time adding weight by using the Civil Aviation Act and the need for obstacle clearance safety, this may go through!

Can somebody expand on this point raised by SouthernAlliance.

[LTNman]

More to do with what can be built in a safety zone rather than what already exists. Grandfather right?

[Musket90]

Can somebody exapand on this point raised by SouthernAlliance.

It's in Section 46 of the Civil Aviation Act which can be found on the Government website.

[SWBKCB]

Yes, but this isn't the first application so what has changed that it is being used now?

[SKOJB]

Seems BA has removed Alicante, Limoges, Dublin and Edinburgh from sale. Not surprising as DUB/EDI were positioning flights for weekend flying only and Alicante/Limoges were short summer season of a few weeks

[cavokblues]

I've just had a read of the Inspector's decision (available here https://planningpublicaccess.southampton.gov.uk/online-applications/appealDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=R2Q3F2OZ0SD00) and the inspector makes it clear on paragraphs 36 and 37 what specific information they require which may allow a successful application in the future.

I guess Southampton airport will make sure they have all of that info next time around?

[LTNman]

https://www.eastleighnews.co.uk/2023/10/protected-healthy-trees-threatened-by-new-airport-application/

Southampton Airport has applied (https://planningpublicaccess.southampton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=makeComment&keyVal=RRM88OOZIMO00) to Southampton City Council to reduce the height of 23 healthy trees in Marlhill Copse, citing air safety concerns.

the airport argues that it has the authority under the Civil Aviation Act to fell or reduce in height any trees “in order to secure the safe and efficient use [of land] for civil aviation purposes”.


So what happens if this application is appoved, will the safety margins improve or more likely will SOU increase the performance figures of the runway so actually there is no change in safety?

Of course if safety was the real concern they could always reduce the runway length available.

[Saabdriver1]

It will be an improvement in safety without doubt. The current procedures for an OEI departure off R20 comply with the requirements but rule out a straight-ahead climb on one engine because of these few trees.

[SWBKCB]

The inspectors report linked at #2204 is worth a read - the application seems to have been based on efficiency rather than safety. The inspector doesn't seem very impressed with the application and as cavokblues has mentioned has virtually told them what to put in the next application.

34. The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has also suggested that the trees to be felled are affecting flight operations at Southampton airport. Referring to the UK’s obligations under the Chicago convention, it pointed out that the airport is required to have procedures in place to ensure that the air space surrounding the airport remains safe at all times. The airport appears to have achieved this through weight restrictions placed on aircraft using its runways.

35. Nevertheless, and in this context, the CAA has referred to 95 tree obstacles at Marlhill, which supposedly penetrate the airspace around Southampton airport. It has also pointed out that the mitigation taken to compensate for this is resulting in airline inefficiency, due to them incurring seat penalties etc. It then goes on to refer to the safeguarding protection that the Secretary of State has afforded to Southampton airport, because of its importance both to the national transport system and the local economy

[SKOJB]

It will be an improvement in safety without doubt. The current procedures for an OEI departure off R20 comply with the requirements but rule out a straight-ahead climb on one engine because of these few trees.

I always thought a right turn after takeoff from 20 and to follow the river Itchen was to provide noise abatement?

[Saabdriver1]

Yes, that is. There's a different procedure for engine failure at take-off which is altogether more onerous.

[Asturias56]

One thing is certain - it'll be a massive bonus for lawyers . The locals will drag it through every court in the land, appeals, judicial reviews, more appeals

and it takes years :(

[Expressflight]

It will be an improvement in safety without doubt. The current procedures for an OEI departure off R20 comply with the requirements but rule out a straight-ahead climb on one engine because of these few trees.

Is the 15 degree skew to starboard 20 departure climb path still is use?

[TCAS FAN]

Is the 15 degree skew to starboard 20 departure climb path still is use?

Yes it is, the Type A Chart has not as yet been updated to account for the recent runway extension.

https://nats-uk.ead-it.com/cms-nats/export/sites/default/en/Charts/type-a-charts/NATS_AIM_TypeA_Southampton-EGHI_20-15deg.pdf

[LTNman]

So what is the driving force behind this application, safety or profit? If it was safety then the argument would be that SOU has compromised safety by extending the runway, as they have identified safety concerns that were understood before the extension was started. If it was profit then a bit more honesty would be in order. I suspect the performance figures will be increased if the application is approved meaning the increased safety margin will disappear for those aircraft needing a longer runway although smaller aircraft would benefit.

[Musket90]

On checking Town and Country Planning on the Government website Southampton is listed as an "Officially Safeguarded Aerodrome", meaning on the basis of its importance to the national air transport system that its operation and development isnot inhibited by buildings, structures, erections or works which infringe protected surfaces.

[LTNman]

So the runway extension should not have been built then? Seems a bit drastic.

[Buster the Bear]

So what are the new destinations that are bookable post runway extension?

[davidjohnson6]

So what are the new destinations that are bookable post runway extension?
Do Glasgow and Belfast-Aldergrove count ? (Tries to avoid the awkward silence while everybody else talks about the weather)

[SWBKCB]

Glasgow already served by Loganair

[LTNman]

Nothing for S24 but there is still plenty of time.

[SWBKCB]

On checking Town and Country Planning on the Government website Southampton is listed as an "Officially Safeguarded Aerodrome", meaning on the basis of its importance to the national air transport system that its operation and development is not inhibited by buildings, structures, erections or works which infringe protected surfaces.

Which makes you wonder while the issue is still outstanding

[LTNman]

Because the inconvenient truth is that the trees have preservation orders on them so are legally protected. If they just gave permission they would be subject to all sorts of legal challenges.

The truth is that this application has little to do with safety but allowing the runway to gain extra performance. I suspect the Council will be aware of this.

[Saabdriver1]

I'd challenge you to fly the emergency turn procedure off R20 in the sim and tell me that this has got little to do with safety! For those operating in and out of SOU on a daily basis, the airport's position is clear and obvious. It also undertook a lot of work on the copse and the work in all but the most critical area was agreed by the council, but the council then ducked the approval process for the one area of the copse in which the most limiting obstacles (trees) are located. It's been a political fudge by the council up to this point, so SOU is now doing the right thing and recognising it for the safety issue that it is.

[cavokblues]

I don't think it's as clear cut as that. Southampton isn't currently unsafe to operate to and from.

The inspector's decision on the last appeal stated the airport failed to outline their intentions clearly and provided no evidence re the impact of the trees on airspace or potential commercial viability.

With that in mind, it's hard to blame this all on the council. Seems like the airport omitted several bits of evidence to properly support their case.

[SWBKCB]

I don't think it's as clear cut as that. Southampton isn't currently unsafe to operate to and from.

The inspector's decision on the last appeal stated the airport failed to outline their intentions clearly and provided no evidence re the impact of the trees on airspace or potential commercial viability.

With that in mind, it's hard to blame this all on the council. Seems like the airport omitted several bits of evidence to properly support their case.

That's my reading of the inspectors report - his exasperation comes through in his comments.

[TCAS FAN]

I'd challenge you to fly the emergency turn procedure off R20 in the sim and tell me that this has got little to do with safety! ……

The option of a 15 degree turn is not primarily an emergency turn procedure, albeit that some operators may utilise it as such. The relevant Type A Chart depicts the improved obstacle environment that is present if a turn is possible.

[L1011effoh]

Engine failure procedures are company/fleet dependent. If there is a 15 degree turn option off RW20 at SOU, it’s not being used by the performance engineers that do our calculations. However the option may have been rejected because of wind effects on the ‘moving cone’ of the turn. There was a really onerous EFP at RW03 (Right turn at 50’ or Departure end of runway whichever came first, through 80 degrees) at ACE that had different maximum take off mass limits depending on the wind speed and direction (about 4 different cases) due to its effect on the ground track of the turn.

[rjrm]

Flew up to Glasgow this evening on the new easyJet route. I estimate between 130140 PAX, which I expect has been inflated due to the 2 cancelled Loganair’s today. All round good service.

[SouthernAlliance]

Seems EZY A319 from GLA had 100 pax inbound this evening. Not bad for its first visit and would imagine this route will only improve. Loganair would have some competition if it was more regular as you can be sure that both business/leisure users have jumped on this service as a cost alternative!

[darren1]

Depends what yield they can generate on just a few rotations a week. Putting bums on seats means nothing to the bean counters. LM have a robust operation, offering frequency at a price. Interesting to see what U2 start next summer, if it is indeed them to start rotations. SOU need to get an airline to make an announcement if indeed anything is starting next year as I and others have already booked from LGW and LHR.

[MARKEYD]

Loganair do indeed have a robust operation at Southampton and they have increased services accordingly
EDI now x 5
GLA now x 4
NCL x 2
Winter 23/ 24

The fares are pretty high granted but demand is there for sure
A question though , let’s ruin it by getting EasyJet in operating 2 flights a day at ridiculous hours and see what happens

[LTNman]

Easyjet could well compliment the Loganair service. One leg easyjet one leg Loganair for more flexibility so increasing the demand for Loganair as not everyone will find easyJet’s limited schedule convenient. One leg each will also reduce the total cost.

[RW20]

Depends what yield they can generate on just a few rotations a week. Putting bums on seats means nothing to the bean counters. LM have a robust operation, offering frequency at a price. Interesting to see what U2 start next summer, if it is indeed them to start rotations. SOU need to get an airline to make an announcement if indeed anything is starting next year as I and others have already booked from LGW and LHR.
Is it getting late for announcements?
Much needed for the airports viable future

[davidjohnson6]

November and 1st half of December is often packed with new route announcements for the following summer. I have no knowledge of what will happen at SOU... but I think there is still plenty of time to hear something good. If nothing is announced by Xmas... then you can worry.

[MARKEYD]

Easyjet could well compliment the Loganair service. One leg easyjet one leg Loganair for more flexibility so increasing the demand for Loganair as not everyone will find easyJet’s limited schedule convenient. One leg each will also reduce the total cost.

Since when has EasyJet complimented any airline in flexibility !!
This will end in tears for one airline who has stuck with the route consistently through thick and thin and another who will give random times, fares and then P… off !!
Compliment ???

[LTNman]

All depends if Easyjet increase its frequency. If they do it could well kill off Loganair but if they don’t split legs are more likely meaning an unaffordable return using just Loganair could become affordable if one leg was via Easyjet so stimulating demand for Loganair.

An example would be if I fly out say on a Thursday to GLA with Easyjet and want to return on a Sunday my choice is train or Loganair so Loganair could pick up business for a journey I might not have made in the first place if it wasn’t for Easyjet.

[willy wombat]

I don’t think the odd person using Loganair who wouldn’t have made the trip had they not been able to use EZY for the other leg will in any way make up for the traffic Loganair would have carried that will be lost to EZY.

[cavokblues]

A few moons ago I used to have to travel between BRS and NCL a bit with work.

Trying to use the easyJet schedule between the two was a nightmare as it flip flopped all over the place throughout the week. It often meant a flight one way and a long drive in a car rental or the train the other way.

That's the risk for SOU if easyjet push Loganair completely out. You will gain cheaper fares but at the cost of flexibility and a more regular predictable service.. And if the company is paying for them, most people travelling for work will take flexibility over cost and a 5 hr drive all day long.

[SouthernAlliance]

Flew up to Glasgow this evening on the new easyJet route. I estimate between 130140 PAX, which I expect has been inflated due to the 2 cancelled Loganair’s today. All round good service.

Inflated or not, it’s immaterial as EZY will see this as valuable data for possible future use when going up against competition and the opportunity to maybe scale up this service!

[SWBKCB]

Inflated or not, it’s immaterial as EZY will see this as valuable data for possible future use when going up against competition and the opportunity to maybe scale up this service!

Or maybe they'll look at more than one flight. I could look at the fares available going forward over the next few weeks and say scaling up isn't on option! :ok:

[SouthernAlliance]

Or maybe they'll look at more than one flight. I could look at the fares available going forward over the next few weeks and say scaling up isn't on option! :ok:

totally agree, only highlighting that this initial data was timely and it was rather opportune that Loganair had cancelled most flights on easyJet’s first day of flying

[willy wombat]

The problem with EZY domestics is that they seem to be treated very much as poor relations to their international routes and in many cases used to fill a gap in a line of flying when they can’t fit in anything longer. Even their Gatwick - Glasgow/Edinburgh schedules are dire at times. I have to regularly do day trips to Edinburgh and I live just a bit south of Gatwick. During the summer, on a Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday they have no flights EDILGW between 1500 and 2100. As such I try to travel on a Thursday or a Friday but if I have to go earlier in the week I go from LHR and back to LHR because that’s where my car is. I have seriously thought about going from/to SOU but the unpredictability of the Chichester bypass puts me off (and the alternative of the A272 is also unpredictable). In a nutshell, EZY will do no good whatsoever to the long term SOU Scotland market and I sincerely hope SOU are not giving them discounts on the GLA route. If they are they are short term fools.

[Aero Mad]

If only some clever chaps could invent a sort of road, perhaps made of iron and very straight, on which it were possible to travel very quickly from place to place. I hear they have such things overseas.

[SWBKCB]

If only some clever chaps could invent a sort of road, perhaps made of iron and very straight, on which it were possible to travel very quickly from place to place. I hear they have such things overseas.

We have a version in this country - used as an instrument of torture.

[rjrm]

I think at least with the current schedule easyJet have on offer, there is space for both airlines. Loganair only carried about 50% of pre-covid numbers this August (compared to August 2019). I understand that the route most likely won’t get back to its former numbers and that it’s winter too, but surely there is enough space for 2 A319s a week? Just my opinion though.
I have flown between Southampton and Scotland (mostly Edinburgh) over 100 times in the last 7 years, a lot of these flights actually being with Loganair. I noticed on the easyJet flight yesterday that they had attracted a different clientele to what I have seen on Loganair’s flight, so in the long run, I don’t think this will effect Loganair too much.

[willy wombat]

If only some clever chaps could invent a sort of road, perhaps made of iron and very straight, on which it were possible to travel very quickly from place to place. I hear they have such things overseas.
I’d like to see you do a day return from Sussex to Edinburgh, with a reasonable amount of time in Edinburgh (including travelling to Musselburgh) using trains. Bear in mind you have to travel between Victoria and Kings Cross (and vv).

[davidjohnson6]

I’d like to see you do a day return from Sussex to Edinburgh, with a reasonable amount of time in Edinburgh (including travelling to Musselburgh) using trains. Bear in mind you have to travel between Victoria and Kings Cross (and vv).
I've done a day trip in the past purely by train from Surrey via Waterloo and King's Cross to Edinburgh and back... Thameslink makes it relatively easy from Sussex. To those who dislike the train times... remember that 4+ hours on the train between London and Edinburgh can be filled with a long snooze to catch up on sleep, much like many of the pax on 6 am flights fall asleep the moment the aircraft doors are closed.

Monday 06 November
Gatwick dep 0421, St Pancras arr 0515
King's Cross dep 0548 Edinburgh Waverley arr 1008

Edinburgh Waverley dep 1730, King's Cross arr 2208
St Pancras dep 2220 Gatwick 2307

There are 2 later trains from Edinburgh to King's Cross at 1830 and 1930 respectively (and yes, there are onward connections from St Pancras to Sussex), in case you want to spend longer in Edinburgh and meetings run later than expected.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

All depends if Easyjet increase its frequency. If they do it could well kill off Loganair but if they don’t split legs are more likely meaning an unaffordable return using just Loganair could become affordable if one leg was via Easyjet so stimulating demand for Loganair.

An example would be if I fly out say on a Thursday to GLA with Easyjet and want to return on a Sunday my choice is train or Loganair so Loganair could pick up business for a journey I might not have made in the first place if it wasn’t for Easyjet.
No unregulated free market works like this. Perhaps once in the days of say BA and Air Canada pooling seats to Canada, but never as direct competitors, which easyJet and Loganair are. Huge majority of people, even savvy people, are carrier loyal on a booking.
easyJet don't offer regular domestics for business, business works around easyJet's offered timings. They're the dominant domestic carrier now surely?

[SWBKCB]

LTNman isn't talking about pooling seats, merely that more choice gives more options so may increase the market rather than two carriers competing for the same pax.

[willy wombat]

I've done a day trip in the past purely by train from Surrey via Waterloo and King's Cross to Edinburgh and back... Thameslink makes it relatively easy from Sussex. To those who dislike the train times... remember that 4+ hours on the train between London and Edinburgh can be filled with a long snooze to catch up on sleep, much like many of the pax on 6 am flights fall asleep the moment the aircraft doors are closed.

Monday 06 November
Gatwick dep 0421, St Pancras arr 0515
King's Cross dep 0548 Edinburgh Waverley arr 1008

Edinburgh Waverley dep 1730, King's Cross arr 2208
St Pancras dep 2220 Gatwick 2307

There are 2 later trains from Edinburgh to King's Cross at 1830 and 1930 respectively (and yes, there are onward connections from St Pancras to Sussex), in case you want to spend longer in Edinburgh and meetings run later than expected.
l commend you for taking up the challenge. However on my normal schedule I leave Gatwick at 0815 arrive EDI 0945. As I’m not travelling to central Edinburgh arriving at Waverley gives me little advantage. I then leave EDI at 1900, arrive LGW at 2030 and home by 2130. I think the plane is a no brainer..I also think we’ve probably hijacked the SOU thread quite enough!

[01475]

I think at least with the current schedule easyJet have on offer, there is space for both airlines. Loganair only carried about 50% of pre-covid numbers this August (compared to August 2019). I understand that the route most likely won’t get back to its former numbers and that it’s winter too, but surely there is enough space for 2 A319s a week? Just my opinion though.
I have flown between Southampton and Scotland (mostly Edinburgh) over 100 times in the last 7 years, a lot of these flights actually being with Loganair. I noticed on the easyJet flight yesterday that they had attracted a different clientele to what I have seen on Loganair’s flight, so in the long run, I don’t think this will effect Loganair too much.

I've been wondering what on earth is going on with EZY's GLA - STN service. It's increasingly becoming awful, which feels a bit like holding the door open for RYR. It feels like they're slowly giving up on domestics!