Southampton-3

[Sotonsean]

I've been wondering what on earth is going on with EZY's GLA - STN service. It's increasingly becoming awful, which feels a bit like holding the door open for RYR. It feels like they're slowly giving up on domestics!

"I've been wondering what on earth is going on" 🤣

With people posting stuff that is clearly intended for other threads.

I take it that you're fully aware of the fact that there are individual threads for both EasyJet and London Stansted. Don’t you think that your post should have been directed to either of those threads rather than this particular one. Your post has absolutely nothing to do with SOU.

[01475]

SOU - GLA is a domestic route, and EZY's approach to domestic routes could be relevant to the approach they might take to a domestic route? Like the discussion about whether they're fillers or serious attempts to pick up business traffic? Why people are discussing other random non SOU routes? No?

(PS, if you add me to your ignore list then neither of us will see each other's posts and there'll be no annoyance! :ok: )

[Sotonsean]

:rolleyes: :ugh:
Would you like me to spell out to you why SOU - GLA is a domestic route and why EZY's approach to domestic routes is relevant to the approach they might take to a domestic route? No?

Ah no, of course you wouldn't. Go on, feel very smart for your exceptionally clever sarcasm. Clever you!

I still dont think that it should have been directed to this particular thread regardless of your "sarcastic" response. "Clever me".

Regardless of the fact that you're referencing GLA-SOU as being a domestic route, which I'm totally aware of, btw.

You would have had a better response, in my opinion, if your post was directed to either the EasyJet or Stansted threads or even the Glasgow thread. Your debating EasyJet, Glasgow, and London Stansted in your post. Nothing of which really concerns Southampton Airport.

The emoji depicting "hitting your head on a brick wall" is one I dispise, btw. It's generally used by certain people on here. In my opinion, it says a lot about that particular individual 🤔

[SKOJB]

One thing is for certain, the new EZY-GLA service has stirred up emotions on LinkedIn with the Loganair CEO joining in, wow!

[Sotonsean]

One thing is for certain, the new EZY-GLA service has stirred up emotions on LinkedIn with the Loganair CEO joining in, wow!

At the time when it was first announced, it was stated that EasyJet BFS/GLA to SOU were both intended to be seasonal service.

EasyJet stated that flights would operate until the end of the IATA winter season, which ends on 29 March 2024.

EasyJet has so far made no commitment to operating BFS/GLA-SOU for the IATA summer season, which commences on 30 March 2024.

Some outlets state that these two EasyJet domestic flights between BFS/GLA-SOU are going to be year-round, whereas some are stating that they are seasonal only. Remember EasyJet at the time stated that they were for winter season only.

EasyJet is more than likely using spare aircraft capacity at both BFS and GLA to operate these domestic routes to SOU.

Until EasyJet confirm that these two domestic routes will continue after the IATA winter 2023/24 season, I can't see them being much of a threat in the long term.

EasyJet is only operating five weekly flights to Southampton, three from BFS and two from GLA. In my opinion, these flights will actually benefit SOU, and it won't have a real effect on Loganair. In any event, these two domestic routes by EasyJet will open up a new market rather than depress it.

I have flown Loganair from SOU on several occasions, and I will continue to do so in the future. But that hasn't stopped me from purchasing a return ticket for £52 from easyJet for SOU to GLA.

Obviously, in the long-term, I would like to see easyJet being committed to these two domestic routes to SOU and expanding even further. But until these flights are confirmed to continue into the IATA summer 2024 season, we can only assume that EasyJet were correct in announcing that they were to be for winter season only.

[rjrm]

Came back down to Southampton today with easyJet. 77 PAX on the flight, more representative of numbers going forward I expect. Managed to have a quick chat with the flight crew, 2,100 kg fuel used on each leg, so a definite advantage over the E145 with only 49 seats.

[Expressflight]

Easyjet could well compliment the Loganair service. One leg easyjet one leg Loganair for more flexibility so increasing the demand for Loganair as not everyone will find easyJet’s limited schedule convenient. One leg each will also reduce the total cost.

I think predictive text has struck again here.

I believe you meant to type "complement" and not "compliment" with regards to easyJet complementing the Loganair service.

I agree with you that travellers might well use the more expensive Loganair flights coupled with the complementary and cheaper easyJet service as their travel requirements dictate.

[GeorgeNTravels]

At the time when it was first announced, it was stated that EasyJet BFS/GLA to SOU were both intended to be seasonal service.

EasyJet stated that flights would operate until the end of the IATA winter season, which ends on 29 March 2024.

EasyJet has so far made no commitment to operating BFS/GLA-SOU for the IATA summer season, which commences on 30 March 2024.

Some outlets state that these two EasyJet domestic flights between BFS/GLA-SOU are going to be year-round, whereas some are stating that they are seasonal only. Remember EasyJet at the time stated that they were for winter season only.

EasyJet is more than likely using spare aircraft capacity at both BFS and GLA to operate these domestic routes to SOU.

Until EasyJet confirm that these two domestic routes will continue after the IATA winter 2023/24 season, I can't see them being much of a threat in the long term.

EasyJet is only operating five weekly flights to Southampton, three from BFS and two from GLA. In my opinion, these flights will actually benefit SOU, and it won't have a real effect on Loganair. In any event, these two domestic routes by EasyJet will open up a new market rather than depress it.

I have flown Loganair from SOU on several occasions, and I will continue to do so in the future. But that hasn't stopped me from purchasing a return ticket for £52 from easyJet for SOU to GLA.

Obviously, in the long-term, I would like to see easyJet being committed to these two domestic routes to SOU and expanding even further. But until these flights are confirmed to continue into the IATA summer 2024 season, we can only assume that EasyJet were correct in announcing that they were to be for winter season only.

easyJet press release from this week says that both routes are year round

https://mediacentre.easyjet.com/story/16394/easyjet-celebrates-new-flights-from-southampton-to-belfast-and-glasgow

[CabinCrewe]

easyJet press release from this week says that both routes are year round

https://mediacentre.easyjet.com/story/16394/easyjet-celebrates-new-flights-from-southampton-to-belfast-and-glasgow
Press releases mean nothing. One of these operators on this route will be gone this time next year.

[RW20]

Press releases mean nothing. One of these operators on this route will be gone this time next year.
We can only hope it's Easy,as they will drop SOU as sure as eggs are eggs in the future.
Loganair are the best fit for SOU,what the airport needs is for Easy to address the sun routes!

[LTNman]

Inclined to agree. Southend is a good example of Easyjet domestic routes that were claimed to be doing well by fanboys that just ended before anyone had heard of Covid.

[Rivet Joint]

I see the usual suspects are still trying to get their kicks from criticising an inanimate object. Odd.

As for comparisons to other domestic routes at the likes SEN. SOU routes to the likes of GLA EDI, BHD MAN etc were seeing 6 figure or near 6 figure annual passengers a few years ago. Yes times have changed a little but I know lots of people who still travel north regularly for business. The likes of SEN never had these kind of domestic figures.

As LM will never be able to cater for that amount of passengers as a result of their small planes and high prices, there is more than enough room
for EZY doing one rotation a day. Look at the DUB route for example, FR started serving it at BOH yet it didn’t stop EI still serving DUB at SOU and even increasing it to twice daily.

[LTNman]

I see the usual suspects are still trying to get their kicks from criticising an inanimate object. Odd.


Reading back on the posts I can’t find any evidence of criticism. Are you sure you have the right thread?

[SKOJB]

I see the usual suspects are still trying to get their kicks from criticising an inanimate object. Odd.

As for comparisons to other domestic routes at the likes SEN. SOU routes to the likes of GLA EDI, BHD MAN etc were seeing 6 figure or near 6 figure annual passengers a few years ago. Yes times have changed a little but I know lots of people who still travel north regularly for business. The likes of SEN never had these kind of domestic figures.

As LM will never be able to cater for that amount of passengers as a result of their small planes and high prices, there is more than enough room
for EZY doing one rotation a day. Look at the DUB route for example, FR started serving it at BOH yet it didn’t stop EI still serving DUB at SOU and even increasing it to twice daily.

And there are rumours of Ryanair DUB starting up at SOU!

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I see the usual suspects are still trying to get their kicks from criticising an inanimate object. Odd.

As for comparisons to other domestic routes at the likes SEN. SOU routes to the likes of GLA EDI, BHD MAN etc were seeing 6 figure or near 6 figure annual passengers a few years ago. Yes times have changed a little but I know lots of people who still travel north regularly for business. The likes of SEN never had these kind of domestic figures.

As LM will never be able to cater for that amount of passengers as a result of their small planes and high prices, there is more than enough room
for EZY doing one rotation a day. Look at the DUB route for example, FR started serving it at BOH yet it didn’t stop EI still serving DUB at SOU and even increasing it to twice daily.
There you go again. "Small planes and high prices" = Bad. So high volume low price is good? Until small plane frequency is lost due to easyJet using high volume low frequency to kill of Loganair. I am fairly sure there's not room for both, Loganair will review the damage and simply walk away before the summer, by which time easyJet will be focussing more on longer range sun routes. The FR/EI BOH/SOU one isn't the best here. Time will tell.

This notion that both Loganair and easyJet will co-exist and grow the market is for the birds....

[adfly]

And there are rumours of Ryanair DUB starting up at SOU!
Happy to be proven wrong but I feel like this was suggested by someone on here about a month ago and has been elevated to a 'rumour' and repeated on various threads here and elsewhere. I'd be very surprised if there was any substance behind it...

[Flightrider]

No Ryanair slot applications at SOU for S24 - I think that was indeed not even a rumour, just a figment of someone’s imagination.

The easyJet slot applications have what looks to be two sunshine EJU routes with two flights per week each, so a max of four a week. Belfast increasing to five per week and Glasgow in at daily.

So if all that happens, SOU will have seriously p***ed off both Loganair and Emerald who have been supporters of the airport’s recovery to get four A320s per week. No further forward, and quite possibly far worse off in the long run, I’d say.

[RW20]

No Ryanair slot applications at SOU for S24 - I think that was indeed not even a rumour, just a figment of someone’s imagination.

The easyJet slot applications have what looks to be two sunshine EJU routes with two flights per week each, so a max of four a week. Belfast increasing to five per week and Glasgow in at daily.

So if all that happens, SOU will have seriously p***ed off both Loganair and Emerald who have been supporters of the airport’s recovery to get four A320s per week. No further forward, and quite possibly far worse off in the long run, I’d say.
If SOU loose Loganair and Emerald ,then it would be a disaster!,for what just a couple of Summer routes ???

[Flightrider]

You’d have thought even losing them off the routes on which easyJet competing would be bad enough - it would be a huge loss in frequency and capacity.

And you have to think that neither would be particularly inclined to do anything else at SOU if the airport has stitched them up like this. Loganair to Manchester and Emerald to Cork would be a long way off …

[SWBKCB]

All a bit premature - the slot requests need to turned into flights and then we need to see what the impact is on the incumbents.

Will EZY split the current market it or grow it? Lots of cruise pax are still being coached down to Southampton.

[Albert Hall]

The easyJet slot applications have what looks to be two sunshine EJU routes with two flights per week each, so a max of four a week. Belfast increasing to five per week and Glasgow in at daily.

That’s a lot more Med flying than I am being led to believe is being announced any day now. If what I am hearing is what they actually do, it’s hardly worth bothering. And it is certainly not worthwhile upsetting Loganair and Emerald for.

I do wonder if easyJet’s main motivation here is keeping a foot on the heads of some upcoming rivals - which is exactly what they are trying to do at Belfast City with Emerald - and AGS have fallen for this with the lure of a tiny programme of Med routes that the airport feels it has to have to demonstrate progress to the local market?

[darren1]

Nice and Barcelona would be good routes, but lets see what happens. BA Cityflyer are retreating again next year and can't imagine Loganair or Emerald are too pleased with the Easyjet domestics. This could all end up a spectacular disaster for Southampton Airport. We don't need to see duplicate routes to the likes of Palma and Malaga.

[SouthernAlliance]

Another airline possibly flying to the med?

[SWBKCB]

I do wonder if easyJet’s main motivation here is keeping a foot on the heads of some upcoming rivals - which is exactly what they are trying to do at Belfast City with Emerald - and AGS have fallen for this with the lure of a tiny programme of Med routes that the airport feels it has to have to demonstrate progress to the local market?

Do Easy really see Loganair and Emerald as rivals?! I'd have though they had bigger things to worry about.

Nice and Barcelona would be good routes, but lets see what happens. BA Cityflyer are retreating again next year and can't imagine Loganair or Emerald are too pleased with the Easyjet domestics. This could all end up a spectacular disaster for Southampton Airport. We don't need to see duplicate routes to the likes of Palma and Malaga.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't Palma/Malaga/Alicante, maybe Faro. BA Cityflyer always seemed to be a marriage of convenience.

[inOban]

The fact that BACF have cut some routes may suggest that the tour operators who book space on these flights have instead got space on another operator who may not yet have put the route on public sale?

[stewyb]

Maybe there is a new player about to join the party! :ok:

[RW20]

Maybe there is a new player about to join the party! :ok:

Jet2? Two 737-300 based next year,then 320 neo in 25?

[TCAS FAN]

Jet2? Two 737-300 based next year,then 320 neo in 25?

Hopefully yes, that said AGS will need to sort out the staffing, both their own, handling agent's and NATS to ensure that delayed evening arrivals can RTB.

[SouthernAlliance]

As SOU is not slot restricted, do all new airlines/routes have to show up on ACL applications?

[Flightrider]

Good question - and the answer is no. An airline could theoretically pop up and announce something new without any prior signal through the slots data, then put their schedule into the system later. It's a facilitation exercise to avoid obvious conflict (e.g. international terminal arrivals capacity etc) and also to drive the data which powers the airport FIDS systems.

easyJet was one route on Mon/Thu (EJU1291/1292) and a second route on Thu/Sun (flight numbers EJU1514-1518).

[SouthernAlliance]

Good question - and the answer is no. An airline could theoretically pop up and announce something new without any prior signal through the slots data, then put their schedule into the system later. It's a facilitation exercise to avoid obvious conflict (e.g. international terminal arrivals capacity etc) and also to drive the data which powers the airport FIDS systems.

easyJet was one route on Mon/Thu (EJU1291/1292) and a second route on Thu/Sun (flight numbers EJU1514-1518).

thanks for the clarification

[Sotonsean]

Maybe there is a new player about to join the party! :ok:

Welcome back to the forum and very unexpected. We weren't expecting to hear from you again until after the month of November when everything "will become clearer" 😁

[Groundloop]

So if all that happens, SOU will have seriously p***ed off both Loganair and Emerald

You don't seem to realise that if Easy want to fly to SOU the airport cannot stop them. Allowing any operator access (if slots not a problem) is a requirement of the operating licence from the CAA.

[MARKEYD]

Jet2? Two 737-300 based next year,then 320 neo in 25?

I doubt it very much
Jet 2 plan years in advance look at the launch of the LPL base and S25 on sale already
No way are they going to allow 6 months to launch a new base , crew it and promote good sales for the summer

It probably will be EasyJet on a very low scale , test the market and go from there

If BA Cityflyer can’t make Alicante work though I am surprised , load factors in August being 34 % not good for peak season

Guess this coming week things may all become a bit clearer and everyone can breathe a collective sigh of relief …

[GayFriendly]

Not all new operators and routes appear on slot requests. Pegasus have just announced BHX-SAW starting December and I've never seen them listed on BHX slot requests.

So who knows for SOU? I think it could be a very interesting few weeks though as Nov/Dec is prime time for new route announcements for the following year.

Although I personally think the Jet2 brand/product are a good fit for SOU, they announced their new LPL S24 base months ago so I'd be surprised if they now announce S24 routes from SOU at this (for them) late stage. In addition, they only seem to launch 4 aircraft based as a minimum (can SOU accommodate 4 738 at the same time?) and summer season sees them operating virtually 24 hours a day at most bases with some arrivals through the night followed by a wave of early departures. I thought there were night flight restrictions at SOU?

​​​​Very happy to be proved wrong though!

[LTNman]

I doubt easyjet will base any aircraft at SOU due to the airports resticted opening hours. We can add that to the list of future planning applications.

[Sotonsean]

I doubt it very much
Jet 2 plan years in advance look at the launch of the LPL base and S25 on sale already
No way are they going to allow 6 months to launch a new base , crew it and promote good sales for the summer

It probably will be EasyJet on a very low scale , test the market and go from there

If BA Cityflyer can’t make Alicante work though I am surprised , load factors in August being 34 % not good for peak season

Guess this coming week things may all become a bit clearer and everyone can breathe a collective sigh of relief …

I totally agree with you regarding Jet2. There are some on here who don't think like that but just dream.

Regarding BA City Flyer.

If there was more of a comprehensive schedule rather than just a weekly flight I'm sure that the load factors would be far higher. Unless you're planning a week away the operation by BA City Flyer is totally useless for the majority of people including myself.

Alicante is a prime destination and the load factors don't represent the full story. It's the weekly flight and it's expensive, same goes with former and present destinations flown by BA City Flyer from Southampton.

I tend to have three sometimes four days off a week. I enjoy going on short breaks rather than lengthy holidays. In the summer I like to get away at least once a month maybe more for a short break away. Flying out on a Sunday or Monday morning and returning on a Tuesday or Wednesday evening. I can't do that with the likes of BA City Flyer from my local airport.

Because of the lack of service from my local airport I tend to use LGW and LHR. Being a British Airways Executive Club member my choice of airline tends to be British Airways. What annoys me most is that I have to drive past my local airport on the M27 on my way to either LGW or LHR.

​​​The Loganair schedules from SOU are excellent and hopefully they will make an announcement soon regarding MAN-SOU. The same applies to the Aer Lingus Regional (Emerald Airways) schedules to SOU.


I won't use BOH as I eventually stopped using Ryanair in 2015 after getting absolutely fed up with their continuous on-board announcements and their ever increasing baggage fees. My first flight with Ryanair btw was in 1997 and I've flown with them over 100 times since but not any longer.

[davidjohnson6]

Can we try to be nice to each other please ? We all have a common interest.

[SotonFlightpath]

From an airport user point-of-view, it's such a shame that we no longer have the frequency of flights we once had, it was just so convenient - like having a smaller version of London City on my doorstep. It was great being able to just pop-up to Manchester for a half-day's business, Newcastle, Dublin, Glasgow Edinburgh for the day, Dusseldorf for the exhibition centre when my clients were exhibiting there, multiple times daily to Amsterdam, again ideal for exhibitions and conferences. Even to Skiathos on one occasion which was so convenient to visit my Villa in nearby Alonissos!

I don't use the airport much these days, some of the routes are no longer operated, and those that still do are often at inconvenient times or with very limited numbers of flights, precluding useful out and back in day opportunities.

It's not the airport's fault, but the loss of Flybe was such a game-changer. From a business point-of-view, a Blue Islands base of three or four aircraft operating multiple times daily to the main business centres, plus some leisure flying at the weekend is what i would love to see, but I'm not daft and I realise that probably the market has moved on. Business travel is much reduced and those who do still fly have found other, but less convenient options elsewhere and it would be a herculean task to win them back and would need an enormous publicity and advertising push.

I guess the airport will hopefully be able to reinvent itself as a regional low-cost option, but how I long for the days when it was my local 'London City.'

[davidjohnson6]

Would it be fair to say that for calendar year 2023, SOU will likely handle between 750,000 and 800,000 passengers ?
If so, that's a hefty and rather disappointing fall from 2017 when it saw over 2 million passengers... the route development team really have got a lot of work to do for SOU to claw its way back

[SWBKCB]

Agreed - despite their many faults, Flybe have left a massive hole in UK regional flying. Emerald have stepped into Belfast and Loganair to a certain extent for Scotland and the north. Still huge gaps though. Not sure Blue Islands are in any state to step out from Jersey but there are very few alternatives now.

[SouthernAlliance]

Would it be fair to say that for calendar year 2023, SOU will likely handle between 750,000 and 800,000 passengers ?
If so, that's a hefty and rather disappointing fall from 2017 when it saw over 2 million passengers... the route development team really have got a lot of work to do for SOU to claw its way back

Projections are for 800k this year and 1m next so you would expect a certain amount of new routes with EZY etc to take up the slack. As has been gone over many times previous, the airport was so dependant on BE’s fleet of aircraft but now gone, there was nothing left to fill the void. Fortunately the runway extension is now complete and larger stands in place, therefore fingers crossed the airport should begin to claw its way back again to break even (1m-1.2m pa) in the not to distant future!

[Soton27]

EasyJet announces flights to ALC and FAO! Hopefully as they drip more announcements we build up a good network of sun routes.

[Sharklet_321]

easyJet now on sale with a single weekly service to Faro and a single weekly service to Alicante. I find it odd that the frequency is so low. Are they scared of Ryanair at Bournemouth?

[RW20]

easyJet now on sale with a single weekly service to Faro and a single weekly service to Alicante. I find it odd that the frequency is so low. Are they scared of Ryanair at Bournemouth?
Wow ,all the months of high speculation,and it comes down to two flights!, not as many as Southend!, Bournemouth must be running there hands together with glee!


​​​

[Sotonsean]

Wow ,all the months of high speculation,and it comes down to two flights!, not as many as Southend!, Bournemouth must be running there hands together with glee!




I'm so glad that I'm not the type of person who gets over excited. Especially concerning the number of unsubstantiated rumours over the last year regarding easyjet Sun routes at Southampton for summer 2024.

Hopefully, this announcement isn't part of a certain individuals claim in recent months that "everything will become clearer in October/November" 🤔

If that is the case, we'll I'm sure that I'm alone in commenting on the fact that it's a huge disappointment 😞

The only hope is that EasyJet, during the course of the next few days or so, might add, and I'll say it again, might add some more frequencies or at least two other destinations.

But at least it's a start, and it does show that easyJet obviously has some form of ambition for Southampton. Especially with the recent announcement that BFS and GLA to Southampton are going to be year-round and with increased frequencies.

Although it's not a huge increase in passenger traffic, at least Southampton Airport is now in a better position than before. A few months ago, Southampton Airport had one destination flown by EasyJet. Now, it has five.

If indeed easyJet is going to be at Southampton for the long term, then hopefully, there will be further expansion over the course of the next twelve months involving new destinations.

Obviously, Southampton would like to see more sun routes, but there could be plenty of other opportunities. It'll be nice if easyJet might consider a couple of additional destinations for the winter season 2024/25, such as Chambéry, Innsbruck, Lyon, and Salzburg.

If there is no further news from easyJet in the coming days then hopefully, the next announcement for Southampton Airport will be regarding Loganair and a resumption of a service to Manchester.

Another airline and destination I can forsee for Southampton in the near future is Lufthansa from either Frankfurt or Munich.

Lufthansa are planning on further expanding their regional presence in Europe over the next twelve months with their recently announced City Line subsidiary. Lufthansa are intending on using City Line to feed their hubs at Frankfurt and Munich in a similar way that KLM does at Amsterdam.

Over the last two years or so, Lufthansa have added or resumed service to their UK network such as Belfast City, Glasgow, Liverpool, and London Gatwick and to a certain extent London Stansted.

In my opinion, I'm fairly certain that Leeds and Southampton could well be two possible contenders in the future to see service from Lufthansa.

[SouthernAlliance]

Suggestion on the airports FB page that easyjet are to make SOU a base shortly, no idea if true!

[Sotonsean]

Suggestion on the airports FB page that easyjet are to make SOU a base shortly, no idea if true!

And that is one of reasons why I have never ever been a member of Facebook. Comments like that on Facebook totally validates the reasons why the "social networking site" has never appealed to me.

[Albert Hall]

Post 2171 on 20 October
You’ll see an announcement in early November. Not as big or flashy as expected and probably a “was that what we were waiting for?” reaction.

Post 2271 on 5 November
That’s a lot more Med flying than I am being led to believe is being announced any day now. If what I am hearing is what they actually do, it’s hardly worth bothering. And it is certainly not worthwhile upsetting Loganair and Emerald for.

I'm not sure if your comments are aimed at me - it's increasingly hard to ascertain who you are actually taking aim at on this thread right now - but the posts were referring to this news tonight. Announced in early November, one flight a week on each route isn't as big or flashy as expected and is less than easyJet had filed slots to operate. I am led to believe that there is a second round of announcements coming with another batch of routes and some services on existing routes to be released - apparently late this month.

[Wycombe]

And that is one of reasons why I have never ever been a member of Facebook. Comments like that on Facebook totally validates the reasons why the "social networking site" has never appealed to me.

I don't really understand why a rumour posted on FB is any different to one posted on here? At least on FB the poster has a name/profile and is not hiding behind a "nom-de-PPRuNe"!

Have to admit though that I am sceptical about a full Easy base, but it looks like the rumour (that you instantly dismissed) has come from inside the airline, so lets wait and see. It may be competely unconnected, but it is on record that they have announced that they will slightly reduce the size of their LGW base next summer (having realised, based on this summer's experience that the airport/infrastructure/manning cannot cope with 80-odd aircraft)

I'm not sure if your comments are aimed at me - it's increasingly hard to ascertain who you are actually taking aim at on this thread right now - but the posts were referring to this news tonight. Announced in early November, one flight a week on each route isn't as big or flashy as expected and is less than easyJet had filed slots to operate. I am led to believe that there is a second round of announcements coming with another batch of routes and some services on existing routes to be released - apparently late this month.

To be fair to Albert Hall what he/she posted on 20th Oct/5th Nov was bang on, so some slack needs to be cut I think - awaiting further news later in the month then!

[ATNotts]

There may be a difference in definition of the word "base".

To most on this forum the word means to have aircraft, crews etc located at an airport.

To corporate PR departments the same term is often used in terms of operating to an airport, so it marketing terms what SOU has / is getting is a "base" that will, with luck, grow.

[stewyb]

I'm so glad that I'm not the type of person who gets over excited. Especially concerning the number of unsubstantiated rumours over the last year regarding easyjet Sun routes at Southampton for summer 2024.

Hopefully, this announcement isn't part of a certain individuals claim in recent months that "everything will become clearer in October/November" 🤔

If that is the case, we'll I'm sure that I'm alone in commenting on the fact that it's a huge disappointment 😞

The only hope is that EasyJet, during the course of the next few days or so, might add, and I'll say it again, might add some more frequencies or at least two other destinations.

But at least it's a start, and it does show that easyJet obviously has some form of ambition for Southampton. Especially with the recent announcement that BFS and GLA to Southampton are going to be year-round and with increased frequencies.

Although it's not a huge increase in passenger traffic, at least Southampton Airport is now in a better position than before. A few months ago, Southampton Airport had one destination flown by EasyJet. Now, it has five.

If indeed easyJet is going to be at Southampton for the long term, then hopefully, there will be further expansion over the course of the next twelve months involving new destinations.

Obviously, Southampton would like to see more sun routes, but there could be plenty of other opportunities. It'll be nice if easyJet might consider a couple of additional destinations for the winter season 2024/25, such as Chambéry, Innsbruck, Lyon, and Salzburg.

If there is no further news from easyJet in the coming days then hopefully, the next announcement for Southampton Airport will be regarding Loganair and a resumption of a service to Manchester.

Another airline and destination I can forsee for Southampton in the near future is Lufthansa from either Frankfurt or Munich.

Lufthansa are planning on further expanding their regional presence in Europe over the next twelve months with their recently announced City Line subsidiary. Lufthansa are intending on using City Line to feed their hubs at Frankfurt and Munich in a similar way that KLM does at Amsterdam.

Over the last two years or so, Lufthansa have added or resumed service to their UK network such as Belfast City, Glasgow, Liverpool, and London Gatwick and to a certain extent London Stansted.

In my opinion, I'm fairly certain that Leeds and Southampton could well be two possible contenders in the future to see service from Lufthansa.

I have only ever tried to give a little information when I have heard it. Yes I mentioned months ago that easyjet would start a summer programme in 24 (to what extent we don’t know yet) and so it’s seems to be the case. I am also aware that a new airline to the airport is due to announce soon so it is looking more positive for next year. With regards to an EZY base, it seems to have come from within the airline so who knows although it might not be as far fetched as people make out when knowing that EZY are struggling massively at LGW with over capacity and loss of slots. Instead, some could be offloaded to SOU at a relatively short distance between both airports where staffing requirements and travel costs will be less obstructive for internal workers

[cavokblues]

Those operating hours need to change. No way will easyJet have a base at an airport which shuts at 10pm in the winter.

[MARKEYD]

So SOU gets a weekly Alicante and Faro service which is good news to start with

I would imagine that these two routes will at least double in frequency soon as at present this isn’t really much good as a starter schedule for most people

I don’t think there are many airlines that don’t operate at least 2x week

The Alicante flight gets you in just before midnight so again not brilliant for most travellers

Re the rumours on the SOU Facebook page it’s how you interpret it
I read it more like “ my hairdressers neighbour told me “ given the poor grammar and style it’s written in but happy to be proven wrong

It’s a positive start though all things considered

[LGS6753]

Some years ago, EasyJet said that their minimum criterion for a base was three aircraft.
Their development strategy seems to have changed now - and perhaps Birmingham is a template. They started there with iirc two routes using non-based aircraft and used them to build brand/location awareness. A gradual expansion followed until they were in a position to announce a crew/aircraft base, which can be built on to established routes.
Perhaps Southampton has to be patient whilst EZY build their presence.

[RW20]

Some years ago, EasyJet said that their minimum criterion for a base was three aircraft.
Their development strategy seems to have changed now - and perhaps Birmingham is a template. They started there with iirc two routes using non-based aircraft and used them to build brand/location awareness. A gradual expansion followed until they were in a position to announce a crew/aircraft base, which can be built on to established routes.
Perhaps Southampton has to be patient whilst EZY build their presence.
Interesting points,however the biggest stumbling block for any LCC,( which has been mentioned many times) is the restrictive airport opening hours,simply not acceptable for based aircraft.

[EI-BUD]

Those operating hours need to change. No way will easyJet have a base at an airport which shuts at 10pm in the winter.
Delighted for the easyJet announcement. Best of luck to SOU and the airline. It's unlikely they'll operate at weekly (I'd expect them to increase), unless they have something agreed with a tour operator for a weekly flight and they do this sort of thing. Or it could be focused on holidays with one week stays..

The logic would be that they won't base an aircraft with restricted opening hours, however, though not a base they do overnight an aircraft at BHD, which codes are 21.30. Irespective of the reasons for that exception, they still do it. No reason why SOU couldn't have a based unit and extensive routes dependent on other bases like Paris, etc, as they currently do. Any ex Flybe route that has reasonable volume will be if don't interest you them or somebody else and this likely would be free of Ryanair competition at the airport (yeah they are up the road but it's another city), so ostensibly they'd have reasonable yield.

​​​​
​​​

[GayFriendly]

Whilst I agree with the points made about EZY & BHX, if the same is true for SOU then you will need a LOT of patience, EZY launched GVA and BFS from BHX well over a decade ago and it's only in the last few years they started launching more routes before the base announcement.

Aside from the potential issue of opening hours, I guess any future EZY expansion at SOU will depend on what incentives/deals SOU can offer.

It is well known that for years BHX was apparently unwilling / unable to strike a deal with EZY and EZY stated that BHX didn't fit with their strategy.

A lot clearly has changed! If SOU can strike a deal, you may find EZY expansion happening a lot quicker than it did at BHX.

Without tempting fate, I'm beginning to wonder if the fact that new based BHX routes are still not for sale flight only is related to a move of the 3 A320's earmarked for BHX to SOU? Stranger things have happened ...

[Wycombe]

Without tempting fate, I'm beginning to wonder if the fact that new based BHX routes are still not for sale flight only is related to a move of the 3 A320's earmarked for BHX to SOU? Stranger things have happened ...

Any aircraft moving to SOU (if - big if - that happens) will be coming from LGW I reckon, for reasons already discussed above in the thread.

[TCAS FAN]

Those operating hours need to change. No way will easyJet have a base at an airport which shuts at 10pm in the winter.

The reason that the airport has shut at 2200HR during the winter is that there are no scheduled flights after that time, makes business sense?

The current Section 106 Agreement permits operations up to 2300HR. However in the case of delayed schedules, caused by a number of reasons including weather and ATC generated delays (ie normally slots) flights may operate beyond 2300HR.

From what I interpret from the 106, delays caused by aircraft unserviceabilities are not covered by the after 2300HR provision.

As mentioned in my earlier posts, the problem accommodating after 2300HR movements has historically been staff availability, something that will need to be resolved if any based aircraft are to get back for the following morning departures.

[willy wombat]

Any aircraft moving to SOU (if - big if - that happens) will be coming from LGW I reckon, for reasons already discussed above in the thread.
Someone who has access to the ACL S24 data for LGW (and the S23 data) would be able to ascertain how many slots at LGW EZY/EJU hold there for next summer vs this summer which, after allowing for other slots they may gain for next year via leasing, other airline handbacks, etc. would give a good indication as to whether EZY may have to move aircraft out of LGW next year, although it won't tell you where they might go. I am sure there is someone who posts on here regularly who has explained to others, me included, that any questions can quickly and easily be answered by using the internet. Sounds like a job for him/her.

[willy wombat]

The reason that the airport has shut at 2200HR during the winter is that there are no scheduled flights after that time, makes business sense?

The current Section 106 Agreement permits operations up to 2300HR. However in the case of delayed schedules, caused by a number of reasons including weather and ATC generated delays (ie normally slots) flights may operate beyond 2300HR.

From what I interpret from the 106, delays caused by aircraft unserviceabilities are not covered by the after 2300HR provision.

As mentioned in my earlier posts, the problem accommodating after 2300HR movements has historically been staff availability, something that will need to be resolved if any based aircraft are to get back for the following morning departures.
If the staffing issue was resolved, how late can the airport stay open?

[TCAS FAN]

If the staffing issue was resolved, how late can the airport stay open?

Normally 2300HR, airlines cannot publish schedule flights beyond this. However if delays on a particular day are caused by the 106 Agreement definition of "Extraordinary Air Traffic Control Procedures", examples as per my earlier post, I would speculate that technically it could be all night. That said I sincerely doubt that anything more than a few hours after 2300 would be economically viable/practicable for AGS to accommodate.

[SouthernAlliance]

Talk on this thread by some over the past few months has been of new airline/s coming to the airport to offer expansion. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the whispers have in fact been easyJet all the way along and it is them who could launch a new base, as has been suggested rightly or wrongly on FB. Much points to this with them slowly building a route network so would expect this to be the most likely outcome. It’s no secret they have been eyeing SOU for some time and with the Gatwick fallout, this could be a good alternative option. At present FAO and ALC are one weekly, that may increase along with others added with based units. Again all currently up in the air and no one knows but my take would be this as the most obvious option. With regards to opening hours, I’m sure this would have been discussed and worked through at length with any operator to come to an agreeable solution!

[SWBKCB]

Or they will just continue to pluck the low hanging fruit with non-based units and avoid the complications of a base. Doubt anybody knows yet and as always, it'll be a case of use it or lose it.

Either way, it will be making other potential operators think.

[Severn]

Interesting points,however the biggest stumbling block for any LCC,( which has been mentioned many times) is the restrictive airport opening hours,simply not acceptable for based aircraft.

Most easyJet Europe bases are at airports with restrictive operating hours. If they make bases work at these airports with time restrictions, so why not at SOU?
Below is a list of the EJU bases and shows the time that the last EJU based aircraft lands.

ORY - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
NTE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
AMS - last based EJU flight lands at 22:35
BCN - last based EJU flight lands at 22:50
NCE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
NAP - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
BER - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
LYS - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BOD - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
OPO - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BSL - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
GVA - last based EJU flight lands at 23:10
CDG - last based EJU flight lands at 23:25

[RW20]

This is Easy jet Europe,Easy jet UK may not follow or wish to adhere to the restrictive hours?

[Wycombe]

Not seen it mentioned yet, but for S24 the EZY BFS service is bookable 5 weekly (xTuWe) from the end of March, and the GLA service is daily, but not until 1st May (continues at current 2 weekly until the end of April)

[RW20]

Not seen it mentioned yet, but for S24 the EZY BFS service is bookable 5 weekly (xTuWe) from the end of March, and the GLA service is daily, but not until 1st May (continues at current 2 weekly until the end of April)
Lets hope Loganair continue for Glasgow,as they have been loyal servants to SOU,also what has happened to SOU- MAN ,surely a money spinner?

[SotonFlightpath]

Definitely the main issue with late arrivals is having sufficient staff available. In 2018 I was on a very late running flight from Skiathios to SOU. With such a late departure, it was obvious that there could potentially be problems, although nothing was mentioned form the flight deck or from cabin crew before departure. About half an hour into the flight the captain broke the news that Southampton would be closed and we would be diverted to Exeter, not the easiest place to travel back from in the middle of the night. The cabin crew were marvellous, spending much of the flight going up and down the cabin trying to find out where people were trying to get home to so taxis could be arranged and where possible, doubling-up small groups going to locations that were close together. Just after passing Paris, the flight deck informed us that Southampton had agreed to stay open - so all was well and we landed at about 23.45.

What many people probably forget is the shear number of people needed to keep the airport open. Fire crew, control tower, apron staff, ground handling/baggage, border control, baggage reclaim, long-stay car park bus driver etc.

It relies on goodwill and the overtime bill must have been a considerable cost, but there again, so would the coaches and taxis!

[Flightrider]

easyJet has 45 weekly slot pairs to return to BA at Gatwick for Summer 2024, so a reduction in the based aircraft count of three.

They have also lost their grandfather rights to 15 weekly slots (9 departures, 6 arrivals) at LGW for S24 under whatever criteria (use-it-or-lose-it or punctuality/regularity of slots) may have been applied to reach that decision.

My understanding was that the three based aircraft coming out of Gatwick were the three based aircraft to go into Birmingham and so already accounted for, but happy to stand corrected on that if anyone knows more. Either way, I'd still not expect to see a SOU base.

[MadB]

The problem is not lack of staff, its operating hours.

The agreement with local council (Eastleigh) states operating 06h30 to 23h30.
That means aircraft needs to be on the ground and engines shut by 23h30

So that was probably why your flight was diverted

Definitely the main issue with late arrivals is having sufficient staff available. In 2018 I was on a very late running flight from Skiathios to SOU. With such a late departure, it was obvious that there could potentially be problems, although nothing was mentioned form the flight deck or from cabin crew before departure. About half an hour into the flight the captain broke the news that Southampton would be closed and we would be diverted to Exeter, not the easiest place to travel back from in the middle of the night. The cabin crew were marvellous, spending much of the flight going up and down the cabin trying to find out where people were trying to get home to so taxis could be arranged and where possible, doubling-up small groups going to locations that were close together. Just after passing Paris, the flight deck informed us that Southampton had agreed to stay open - so all was well and we landed at about 23.45.

What many people probably forget is the shear number of people needed to keep the airport open. Fire crew, control tower, apron staff, ground handling/baggage, border control, baggage reclaim, long-stay car park bus driver etc.

It relies on goodwill and the overtime bill must have been a considerable cost, but there again, so would the coaches and taxis!

[RW20]

easyJet has 45 weekly slot pairs to return to BA at Gatwick for Summer 2024, so a reduction in the based aircraft count of three.

They have also lost their grandfather rights to 15 weekly slots (9 departures, 6 arrivals) at LGW for S24 under whatever criteria (use-it-or-lose-it or punctuality/regularity of slots) may have been applied to reach that decision.

My understanding was that the three based aircraft coming out of Gatwick were the three based aircraft to go into Birmingham and so already accounted for, but happy to stand corrected on that if anyone knows more. Either way, I'd still not expect to see a SOU base.
Thank you for a clear and realistic summary,Easy need 24 hr or close to operations for based aircraft,so SOU simply doesn't feature!

[pabely]

My understanding was that the three based aircraft coming out of Gatwick were the three based aircraft to go into Birmingham and so already accounted for, but happy to stand corrected on that if anyone knows more. Either way, I'd still not expect to see a SOU base.
Remember due x12 new frames from Airbus between January & April 2024 but also a few 319 retirements - so possible +/- to the fleet so not as easy just saying 3 LGW to BHX.
Either way, I agree SOU is not a likely base. An expanded away program maybe.

[Flightrider]

It may not be quite so simple, but I thought the coincidence in numbers is telling. After the experience easyJet has had this summer with ATC delays, airports with rigid closures (ask anyone in IOM and they'll tell you) and operational disruption, I'd be surprised if the prospect of setting up shop at another airport such as SOU with all of those risks and constraints even figures on the list.

The wider fleet position is anybody's guess unless you work at easyJet! They have had one 320N delivery and one 320 transferred from EJU in the last couple of months and in that timeframe, three 319s have gone to St Athan, five to Teesside and two to Lasham. Seems likely that the first eight are part-outs, unsure if the Lasham pair are part-outs or simply for maintenance or winter storage. Long-winded way of saying that within a fleet of 300-330 aircraft, there are a lot of tunes you can play.

[Wycombe]

Lets hope Loganair continue for Glasgow,as they have been loyal servants to SOU,also what has happened to SOU- MAN ,surely a money spinner?

Can't find it on LinkedIn now, but there was a post a few days ago by Loganair CEO Jonathan Hinkles bemoaning the competition that they will now face on the SOU-GLA route, and almost having a pop at SOU management for "allowing" the competitive situation that will now arise.

The Airport will have a different view, of course, and it might just be that Easyjet's lower fares might stimulate demand from different market segments such that they can co-exist with a higher number of people overall flying on the route.

[willy wombat]

We shall see but adding a daily A320 almost doubles the capacity on the route (1 x 180/186 seats vs 4 x 50 seats). Do you think that EZY will increase the market by almost 100%? If not, how much traffic do you think LM can afford to lose before their operation of the route becomes unsustainable? Answers on a postcard please.

[Sotonsean]

Can't find it on LinkedIn now, but there was a post a few days ago by Loganair CEO Jonathan Hinkles bemoaning the competition that they will now face on the SOU-GLA route, and almost having a pop at SOU management for "allowing" the competitive situation that will now arise.

The Airport will have a different view, of course, and it might just be that Easyjet's lower fares might stimulate demand from different market segments such that they can co-exist with a higher number of people overall flying on the route.

I totally agree with your last paragraph and the comments you've stated 👍

I fully understand Mr Hinkles' frustration, and he's obviously going to make his opinion known. LinkedIn is the ideal platform for him to post about it, and I, too, had read his comments. He has made similar comments on the Southampton Airport FB page as well as on X. Not that I'm a member of either of those two, but I have read them after a quick search online.

[Sotonsean]

We shall see but adding a daily A320 almost doubles the capacity on the route (1 x 180/186 seats vs 4 x 50 seats). Do you think that EZY will increase the market by almost 100%? If not, how much traffic do you think LM can afford to lose before their operation of the route becomes unsustainable? Answers on a postcard please.

After reading your excellent analysis, and looking towards the long term, you could well be correct. The seat comparisons definitely say a lot about the sustainability for two airlines to coexist. With easyjet operating year round on BFS/GLA to Southampton, I'm sure that the airline will look at a possible EDI to SOU route.

I think that we would all like to see the route coexist with easyjet and Loganair but it's going to be difficult for one of them.

Hopefully Loganair are still interested in resuming a Southampton to Manchester link. Loganair just before the pandemic had announced an Isle of Man to Southampton link but it was cancelled three months after it was first announced and it never operated. Before that Loganair had stated that they might be interested in a Carlisle-Liverpool-Southampton route. Obviously that latter route won't happen in the foreseeable future. I personally would appreciate a direct air link to Liverpool from Southampton.

[TartinTon]

Can't find it on LinkedIn now, but there was a post a few days ago by Loganair CEO Jonathan Hinkles bemoaning the competition that they will now face on the SOU-GLA route, and almost having a pop at SOU management for "allowing" the competitive situation that will now arise.

The Airport will have a different view, of course, and it might just be that Easyjet's lower fares might stimulate demand from different market segments such that they can co-exist with a higher number of people overall flying on the route.

Whining Jonny complains about any competion. Always has. The 2/3 flights a week operation from Easy is hardly a threat to his high yield ripoff multi-frequency ops but it will keep him honest on the days when Easy do operate.

[SWBKCB]

Hopefully Loganair are still interested in resuming a Southampton to Manchester link.

I think Loganair will wait and see what the impact of easy is on BFS and GLA before launching anything else from SOU, in case EZY jump on that as well.

[Sotonsean]

Whining Jonny complains about any competition. Always has. The 2/3 flights a week operation from Easy is hardly a threat to his high yield ripoff multi-frequency ops, but it will keep him honest on the days when Easy do operate.

I think that you're overlooking the fact that easyjet has recently confirmed that GLA-SOU is going to be year-round with increased frequencies.

easyjet GLA-SOU is now a year-round route, as recently confirmed by the airline. GLA-SOU will be daily from the beginning of the IATA summer 2024 season, which starts on 31 March 2024.

For the remainder of the IATA winter season 2023/24, easyjet BFS-SOU is two weekly, with GLA-SOU being three weekly. BFS-SOU is also going to be year-round from the IATA summer 2024 season with five weekly flights.

Mr Hinkles has every right to be concerned about the incoming competition despite your personal views of him along with Loganair itself. Wouldn't you be the same if you were in his position 😏

[ATNotts]

If 'Whining Jonny' pulls Loganair's business friendly operation in the face of Easyjet competion the loser is Southampton Airport and the wider Hampshire business community.

Its always wise to be careful what one wishes for.

[Sotonsean]

If 'Whining Johnny' pulls Loganair's business friendly operation in the face of Easyjet competion the loser is Southampton Airport and the wider Hampshire business community.

Its always wise to be careful what one wishes for.

I totally agree with you on all counts 👍

[Albert Hall]

The whole thing looks to be a total mess. SOU needed an airline to backfill the lost volume on Med routes but instead has got an airline which has given a token nod to that need and seems more focused on targeting the incumbent airlines who have - more than any others - brought the airport back from a near-death experience. You'd have to be surprised if Loganair would press ahead with any growth at SOU if that's how the airport has treated them, and the same for Emerald given the increasing easyJet presence on SOU-BFS. These look like spoling operations by easyJet to cap growth by others at SOU to a level which can never become a threat to Gatwick. Worse still, the airport management seems to be aiding and abetting their strategy.

[MadB]

Hard to understand.

Back in Flybe times, SOU was criticised for placing all eggs in one basket.

Now everyone seems afraid to piss off Loganair and is CEO.

Did i go into deep sleep to wake up to a world where monopolies are now healthy?

Maybe if Loganair didn’t rip off their customers on such high fares they wouldn’t fear a little competition as much.

Are Loganair and Emerald a business run for profit or a charity? Why would they look at the emotional side and give up on routes were they are profitable just because they have competition in one route?

And finally. 3 years since losing flybe and covid, yes they brought some business, but nowhere near break even, they airport NEEDS a new airline, no matter what this airline will bring.
Loganair and Emerald by themselves will never be able to bring SOU to positive results.

Sometimes you need to break some eggs.

[willy wombat]

If I believed that EZY was committed to domestic routes from SOU and planned to operate a “proper” business friendly schedule ie at least twice daily on the likes of EDI, BFS etc, I would be less critical of them. However based on their operations on other UK domestic routes, I don’t. IMHO EZY will do what they’ve done on other UK domestics. Slot flights in where they have a gap in the line of flying, often at commercially unattractive times meaning they have to charge sub optimal fares and hope that those plus the incremental revenue from onboard sales etc etc give them some contribution to overheads. Then, when a better opportunity presents itself they will abandon said domestic route without a second thought.

[shamrock7seal]

SOU will go the way of DSA if it chases low fare airlines. SOU has no other auxiliary income other than commercial aviation bar a little car-park income. The CAPEX they'd need to fork out on improvements will not help them in being able to offer low enough passenger charges to the low fare airlines. I can bet you that the likes of Emerald and Loganair are paying SOU much more than a low fare airline ever would.

[SWBKCB]

SOU has no other auxiliary income other than commercial aviation bar a little car-park income.

What's the position with the business park development?

https://www.navigatorquarter.co.uk/

[TCAS FAN]

The problem is not lack of staff, its operating hours.

The agreement with local council (Eastleigh) states operating 06h30 to 23h30.
That means aircraft needs to be on the ground and engines shut by 23h30

So that was probably why your flight was diverted

You do not appear to have read a correct copy of the Section 106 Agreement, a link to it from the SOU website is below.

https://www.southamptonairport.com/planning/section106/

You will note that the permitted operating hours are, with some exceptions, 0630-2300HR except SAT/SUN when they are 2300/0730HR. Outside these are referred to as "night time hours".

As indicated in a much earlier post of mine staffing was the problem for late arrivals. The previous version of the Section 106 permitted 10 movements per month during night time hours, but an ability to accept these arrivals/departures was down to staff availability.

I know as a fact that late attendance by NATS staff was voluntary. This required attendance of two controllers to provide TWR & APS. This has now been reduced due to approval to operate with one controller to provide TWR/APS from the control tower. This alone should improve the likelihood of ATC being available, albeit I do not know whether late attendance by NATS staff is still voluntary.

Returning to the current Section 106 Agreement, the term "expert" appears and is defined. It would appear that during the drafting of the new version there were few experts involved as there is still mention of Viper engined HS 125s, and among the aircraft banned (on noise grounds) from using the airport are DH Comet, Super VC10, Tupolev 104 and HS Trident!

[tallaonejuliet]

Hard to understand.

Back in Flybe times, SOU was criticised for placing all eggs in one basket.

Now everyone seems afraid to piss off Loganair and is CEO.

Did i go into deep sleep to wake up to a world where monopolies are now healthy?

Maybe if Loganair didn’t rip off their customers on such high fares they wouldn’t fear a little competition as much.

Are Loganair and Emerald a business run for profit or a charity? Why would they look at the emotional side and give up on routes were they are profitable just because they have competition in one route?

And finally. 3 years since losing flybe and covid, yes they brought some business, but nowhere near break even, they airport NEEDS a new airline, no matter what this airline will bring.
Loganair and Emerald by themselves will never be able to bring SOU to positive results.

Sometimes you need to break some eggs.

There aren't many eggs left to break when it comes to operational airlines in the UK.
Comparing the orange mob to Loganair or Emerald is pointless as many have said, two separate animals.
Easyjet are scrapping the bottom of the barrel for revenue as traditionally they have given non core UK domestics a wide berth..

[SKOJB]

If as suggested there are further route announcements from easyjet in the next few weeks, can we expect anything additional for SOU and/or FAO & ALC adding frequency?

[Rivet Joint]

Most easyJet Europe bases are at airports with restrictive operating hours. If they make bases work at these airports with time restrictions, so why not at SOU?
Below is a list of the EJU bases and shows the time that the last EJU based aircraft lands.

ORY - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
NTE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
AMS - last based EJU flight lands at 22:35
BCN - last based EJU flight lands at 22:50
NCE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
NAP - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
BER - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
LYS - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BOD - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
OPO - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BSL - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
GVA - last based EJU flight lands at 23:10
CDG - last based EJU flight lands at 23:25

Hard to understand.

Back in Flybe times, SOU was criticised for placing all eggs in one basket.

Now everyone seems afraid to piss off Loganair and is CEO.

Did i go into deep sleep to wake up to a world where monopolies are now healthy?

Maybe if Loganair didn’t rip off their customers on such high fares they wouldn’t fear a little competition as much.

Are Loganair and Emerald a business run for profit or a charity? Why would they look at the emotional side and give up on routes were they are profitable just because they have competition in one route?

And finally. 3 years since losing flybe and covid, yes they brought some business, but nowhere near break even, they airport NEEDS a new airline, no matter what this airline will bring.
Loganair and Emerald by themselves will never be able to bring SOU to positive results.

Sometimes you need to break some eggs.

Welcome both to the SOU thread. How nice to find some people with common sense posting on here.

It should amaze me that the post from Severn stating cold hard facts on why the operating times at SOU are clearly not an issue at many other airports EZY operate to and yet we still have dense people labouring the point.

Also, MadB your post is one of the best posts I’ve seen on here for ages. Why people are crying about LM having competition is mentally ill. I suppose Cadbury should stop selling their chocolate bars in Tesco as they also sell Nestle? The lack of intelligence from people on this thread is mind blowing. Guess what, if EZY push LM out, then the same amount if not more people will still want to fly on those domestic routes. If EZY have full planes and still demand for more seats maybe they will do two daily? If not, then LM can pick up the slack. If EZY disappear in the future then LM can come back? There is no issue to discuss or worry about.

we had this with the runway, oh it’s never going to be built, oh it’s going to be stopped by the courts etc. it’s built and should be a time for much positivity and people are moaning that there isn’t a huge base announced on day one. We now have EZY moving in and 4 routes already announced with more likely to follow and we have people making it out to be a bad thing. Some very angry little men on this thread.

Also, what is the completely ridiculous comparison to BHX about? BHX also has Ryanair, Jet2 and Tui competing with EZY on the holiday routes. SOU does not have this level of competition. As far as domestic routes are concerned, Birmingham is a lot closer to Manchester, Newcastle and Scotland than Southampton is and has a good rail service to London. Domestic routes aren’t really as needed as they are at SOU which is at the bottom of the country and that requires a number of changes to connect to a train going past London.

[Albert Hall]

Hard to understand.

Did i go into deep sleep to wake up to a world where monopolies are now healthy?

Maybe if Loganair didn’t rip off their customers on such high fares they wouldn’t fear a little competition as much.

Are Loganair and Emerald a business run for profit or a charity? Why would they look at the emotional side and give up on routes were they are profitable just because they have competition in one route?

And finally. 3 years since losing flybe and covid, yes they brought some business, but nowhere near break even, they airport NEEDS a new airline, no matter what this airline will bring.
Loganair and Emerald by themselves will never be able to bring SOU to positive results.

Sometimes you need to break some eggs.

The problem with this philosophy is that it assumes Loganair and Emerald can each continue to operate their routes profitably with easyJet also serving them. I'd have my doubts. Fares on regional aircraft are high as the seat costs are quite high - if you charge low fares, you go bust, as Flybe demonstrated twice by selling £10 notes for £5 and wondering why they ran out of money each time.

If those airlines cannot sustain their routes with easyJet competition, all you have done is replaced a Loganair or Emerald monopoly at Southampton with an easyJet one. In doing so, frequencies will drop - just look at the Birmingham/Scotland schedules with easyJet this winter as an example of how dire it becomes. Newcastle/Bristol is another good example. And given the typical LCC airport deals, the airport's income from landing and paxtaxes will almost certainly fall too. No-one wins there apart from easyJet who are then able to control the Southampton market to make sure it never becomes a threat to Gatwick.

I don't think this is as much a case of breaking eggs as choosing to import bird flu into a chicken farm.

[SWBKCB]

Yes Southampton needs new business, but not one that cannabalizes its existing customers. Why have EZY jumped on existing routes when there are so many still left unserved? We keep getting told MAN is a gold mine - unserved and a big Easy base

yet we still have dense people labouring the point.

Why people are crying about LM having competition is mentally ill.

The lack of intelligence from people on this thread is mind blowing.

RJ maintaining standards...

[Albert Hall]

Just seen the post above. On the opening hours point, those are the last scheduled arrivals into those places. The latest actual arrivals into those airports will generally be quite a bit later - of last night's easyJet arrivals into Gatwick, most were on time but a couple scheduled for much earlier didn't get back until after midnight. You need a buffer between last scheduled and closing time for all of those issues which happen. It's just not real-world to say that because easyJet schedules into all sorts of places at 22:30 and Southampton doesn't close until 23:00 that it's a viable base. The number of occasions where you'd end up with the last flight of the night diverting away - which then screws up the entire next day's schedule as the aircraft is starting in the wrong place - would be a major headache. What happens on paper and what happens in the world of airline operations are not one and the same thing.

[RW20]

Yes Southampton needs new business, but not one that cannabalizes its existing customers. Why have EZY jumped on existing routes when there are so many still left unserved? We keep getting told MAN is a gold mine - unserved and a big Easy base






RJ maintaining standards...

Rivet Joint back,but still not in the real World
Will anyone take him seriously with these rants. : I don't think so

[tallaonejuliet]

Welcome both to the SOU thread. How nice to find some people with common sense posting on here.

It should amaze me that the post from Severn stating cold hard facts on why the operating times at SOU are clearly not an issue at many other airports EZY operate to and yet we still have dense people labouring the point.

Also, MadB your post is one of the best posts I’ve seen on here for ages. Why people are crying about LM having competition is mentally ill. I suppose Cadbury should stop selling their chocolate bars in Tesco as they also sell Nestle? The lack of intelligence from people on this thread is mind blowing. Guess what, if EZY push LM out, then the same amount if not more people will still want to fly on those domestic routes. If EZY have full planes and still demand for more seats maybe they will do two daily? If not, then LM can pick up the slack. If EZY disappear in the future then LM can come back? There is no issue to discuss or worry about.

we had this with the runway, oh it’s never going to be built, oh it’s going to be stopped by the courts etc. it’s built and should be a time for much positivity and people are moaning that there isn’t a huge base announced on day one. We now have EZY moving in and 4 routes already announced with more likely to follow and we have people making it out to be a bad thing. Some very angry little men on this thread.

Also, what is the completely ridiculous comparison to BHX about? BHX also has Ryanair, Jet2 and Tui competing with EZY on the holiday routes. SOU does not have this level of competition. As far as domestic routes are concerned, Birmingham is a lot closer to Manchester, Newcastle and Scotland than Southampton is and has a good rail service to London. Domestic routes aren’t really as needed as they are at SOU which is at the bottom of the country and that requires a number of changes to connect to a train going past London.

Are you OK?
Seems the only Angry Little Man on this thread may be you with the above rant.
Business is business, some of us Neanderthals' do understand the concepts being discussed.
Relax, watch it all unfold as the Orange Mob obliterate regional connectivity and increase their prices when those pesky regional carriers retreat.

[Asturias56]

"SOU which is at the bottom of the country and that requires a number of changes to connect to a train going past London."

Hmm - you can get a train from SOU that goes via Reading to Birmingham and Manchester without changing - several times a day

[RivieraTouch]

I have only ever tried to give a little information when I have heard it. Yes I mentioned months ago that easyjet would start a summer programme in 24 (to what extent we don’t know yet) and so it’s seems to be the case. I am also aware that a new airline to the airport is due to announce soon so it is looking more positive for next year. With regards to an EZY base, it seems to have come from within the airline so who knows although it might not be as far fetched as people make out when knowing that EZY are struggling massively at LGW with over capacity and loss of slots. Instead, some could be offloaded to SOU at a relatively short distance between both airports where staffing requirements and travel costs will be less obstructive for internal workers
Is there a clue in the fact that Jet2 have been advertising on local radio for quite a while, suggesting we travel all the way to Bristol ! Clearly they would like a piece of the local action.

[Wycombe]

I am also aware that a new airline to the airport is due to announce soon so it is looking more positive for next year.

I'm wondering if (based on no inside knowledge at all!) this is Vueling, with a Cardiff-type operation? Maybe that's why EZY have only announced one Spanish destination so far?

[SotonFlightpath]

"SOU which is at the bottom of the country and that requires a number of changes to connect to a train going past London."

Hmm - you can get a train from SOU that goes via Reading to Birmingham and Manchester without changing - several times a day

Yes, a direct train from Southampton to Manchester without changing operates hourly from 05.15 to 20.15 daily.

[Rivet Joint]

Are you OK?
Seems the only Angry Little Man on this thread may be you with the above rant.
Business is business, some of us Neanderthals' do understand the concepts being discussed.
Relax, watch it all unfold as the Orange Mob obliterate regional connectivity and increase their prices when those pesky regional carriers retreat.

What is it about facts that antagonise you? Most people know where they stand when it comes to facts but clearly you don’t. Who cares if EZY push every single other operator out of SOU. People will still need to fly and for a fair price. If EZY get a monopoly and start charging too much people will fly from another airport. If the frequency drops and no longer suits again people will choose another option.

Here is one big hard fact for the dense brigade on here, SOU is not viable with the current selection of operators and circa 700k annual passengers. That is from the horses mouth, SOU themselves. So no keeping the current status quo is not an option. There is never going to be another Flybe so the next best thing for SOU is a low cost carrier base. Everything so far suggests that SOU and EZY are working together to get towards that. Again this will no doubt antagonise the odd lot but again is completely factual. I also predicted EZY would move in at SOU a few years ago so think I’m a pretty good judge at these things.

As for the other potential interested party, my bets are Wizz or Volotea. I look forward to collecting my winnings as usual.

[Sotonsean]

Without bashing BOH, but with the recent announcements made by easyjet, it does make you wonder why they are introducing Lyon to Bournemouth rather than a Lyon to Southampton route 🤔

Regarding the previous post.

I personally would very much welcome a return of a Barcelona route from Southampton, and it would be excellent news if indeed Vueling were to resume flights on the route plus, of course, any additional destinations.

I remember being very excited at the time when Vueling first announced a BCN to SOU route. I flew the route on a couple of occasions, and I was very disappointed when it suddenly ceased operating.

For those of you who are unaware, Vueling announced BCN-SOU in November 2011, with flights commencing in the following year in May 2012 with an A319. The route did not last long, though, with the last flight operating in late September 2012. Vueling did not reappear, and BCN-SOU did not operate in 2013. I blamed it purely down to a lack of airline awareness and absolutely dismal advertising.

Perhaps with a BA code share, Vueling flights from SOU might be more of a success compared to when they previously operated in 2012. Vueling were not part of IAG until November 2012, a couple of months after they ceased BCN-SOU.

[Sotonsean]

What is it about facts that antagonise you? Most people know where they stand when it comes to facts but clearly you don’t. Who cares if EZY push every single other operator out of SOU. People will still need to fly and for a fair price. If EZY get a monopoly and start charging too much people will fly from another airport. If the frequency drops and no longer suits again people will choose another option.

Here is one big hard fact for the dense brigade on here, SOU is not viable with the current selection of operators and circa 700k annual passengers. That is from the horses mouth, SOU themselves. So no keeping the current status quo is not an option. There is never going to be another Flybe so the next best thing for SOU is a low cost carrier base. Everything so far suggests that SOU and EZY are working together to get towards that. Again this will no doubt antagonise the odd lot but again is completely factual. I also predicted EZY would move in at SOU a few years ago so think I’m a pretty good judge at these things.

As for the other potential interested party, my bets are Wizz or Volotea. I look forward to collecting my winnings as usual.

Volotea have only just started operating Strasbourg to London Gatwick. This is currently their only scheduled flight to the UK with London Gatwick being their sole point of entry. Having recently obtained slots at London Gatwick I'm sure that Volotea will want to expand from there. Therefore, WHY would Volotea consider resuming scheduled flights from Southampton when their only UK airport is 78 miles or 1.40 hours away.

Obviously we're all aware of Volotea having previously operated from Southampton and their return would be a great addition but realistically I can't see them returning on a scheduled basis. The only way we could possibly see the return of Volotea to Southampton is if they resumed flying on behalf of TUI.

In one way or another, Wizz is retrenching from the UK regions rather than expanding. With their nearest base being at London Gatwick, the same applies to the last part of my previous paragraph.

I'm not denying that Volotea resuming scheduled flights to Southampton wouldn't be a good thing. Although there are many opportunities for Volotea to resume some of the destinations previously operated by Flybe from Southampton. Those possibilities could well include Bordeaux, Nantes, Nice, Toulouse, etc, where the airline has bases.

Easyjet, of course, is a completely different story to anything that I have noted above.

I wouldn't count on collecting your winnings just yet and btw, there were many on this thread in predicting Easyjet would "move in" to Southampton, although most of us never used that term. You should definitely not be taking credit for that. After Easyjet announced Geneva to Southampton in 2016, there was a lot of speculation on here at the time. You were definitely not alone.

So on that account, don't expect to receive too much from your winnings because it would have to be shared out amongst those who also shared the same view a "few years ago."

Also, regarding your previous "rant," You're like my water taps. They run hot and cold.

[01475]

There aren't many eggs left to break when it comes to operational airlines in the UK.

I'm certain SOU's first choice would have been to not annoy either of them, and that they deeply secretly wish easyJet had chosen a nice route to somewhere currently not served by another airline. They probably even started dropping hints about Aberdeen or something!

But ultimately, not really much they can do about it though, is there?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Welcome both to the SOU thread. How nice to find some people with common sense posting on here.
Why people are crying about LM having competition is mentally ill.
Here is one big hard fact for the dense brigade on here, SOU is not viable with the current selection of operators and circa 700k annual passengers.
I also predicted EZY would move in at SOU a few years ago so think I’m a pretty good judge at these things.
As for the other potential interested party, my bets are Wizz or Volotea. I look forward to collecting my winnings as usual.

Are you intentionally misrepresenting what others say just to call them names? Loganair operate on wafer thin margins, they're hardly on Ryanair levels of money making.
If you want frequency, you get the ATR or equivalent and you pay the comparably higher fares commesurate with that offering to market.
If you want the cheapest deal, and that's most of us. then easyJet is your airline of choice.
What we're saying you won't have with the competition in that market, is Loganair charging higher fares on an ATR alongside easyJet chasing volume but at low frequency. What will likely happen is Loganair will lose revenue and volume to easyJet in a free market and walk away. The net result is a lower average fare on a modern jet at a reduced frequency. If that makes you happy then OK, but the only point we're making to you is that you won't have frequency or connectivity. It's gonna be one or t'other, unlikely to be both.

Sorry if that's too grown up an analysis for you, and perhaps you might stop referring to others as "mental" please, or the "dense brigade. You're just showing yourself to be an angry person who can't debate with grown ups without reverting to playground antics. Raise your game please.

[Rivet Joint]

Are you intentionally misrepresenting what others say just to call them names? Loganair operate on wafer thin margins, they're hardly on Ryanair levels of money making.
If you want frequency, you get the ATR or equivalent and you pay the comparably higher fares commesurate with that offering to market.
If you want the cheapest deal, and that's most of us. then easyJet is your airline of choice.
What we're saying you won't have with the competition in that market, is Loganair charging higher fares on an ATR alongside easyJet chasing volume but at low frequency. What will likely happen is Loganair will lose revenue and volume to easyJet in a free market and walk away. The net result is a lower average fare on a modern jet at a reduced frequency. If that makes you happy then OK, but the only point we're making to you is that you won't have frequency or connectivity. It's gonna be one or t'other, unlikely to be both.

Sorry if that's too grown up an analysis for you, and perhaps you might stop referring to others as "mental" please, or the "dense brigade. You're just showing yourself to be an angry person who can't debate with grown ups without reverting to playground antics. Raise your game please.

I think you’re missing the point or perhaps the context here. This thread has long been polluted by trolls or angry individuals who always take the opposite view no matter how good the news might be. Case in point, EZY are slowly drip feeding new routes that could lead to something quite decent but even if it doesn’t one of the big low cost operators and the best in my opinion even serving two holiday routes is positive news. What do we get on this infected thread, oh it’s going to piss the existing operators off, they will leave, leaving passengers with less frequency and then EZY will have a monopoly and put prices up, then get bored and leave and SOU will have no routes any more. Are you genuinely defending that narrative?

I think the vast majority of people want the cheapest deal and don’t do day trips. Even the few business trips that are a day thing can be dealt with by a hotel. A premier inn is hardly expensive for a night. I have no issue with LM and hope they stick around at SOU and certainly in Scotland but I have no sympathy for them. They had a chance to make their mark and maybe become a bit more of a formidable challenger with bigger aircraft but all they have done is keep some old tiny jets that the previous owner went bankrupt using. There were plenty of q400s lying around that are fast and would have resulted in cheaper fairs but they went down the ATR route for their new fleet only to operate them on the likes of Glasgow - Isley, Isle of Man - Liverpool etc. Don’t think SOU owe them anything if that’s their priority.

[Albert Hall]

I seem to recall an earlier debate where you’d suggested LM should have taken Q400s and I think someone from there had pointed out what a bad idea that was!

[tallaonejuliet]

What is it about facts that antagonize you? Most people know where they stand when it comes to facts but clearly you don’t. Who cares if EZY push every single other operator out of SOU. People will still need to fly and for a fair price. If EZY get a monopoly and start charging too much people will fly from another airport. If the frequency drops and no longer suits again people will choose another option.

Here is one big hard fact for the dense brigade on here, SOU is not viable with the current selection of operators and circa 700k annual passengers. That is from the horses mouth, SOU themselves. So no keeping the current status quo is not an option. There is never going to be another Flybe so the next best thing for SOU is a low cost carrier base. Everything so far suggests that SOU and EZY are working together to get towards that. Again this will no doubt antagonise the odd lot but again is completely factual. I also predicted EZY would move in at SOU a few years ago so think I’m a pretty good judge at these things.

As for the other potential interested party, my bets are Wizz or Volotea. I look forward to collecting my winnings as usual.

Antagonise - I wouldn't waste my energy on your schoolboy rants to be honest - 'Dense Brigade' is a particularly prime example of a cunning linguist.
Your reply says it all about your grasp of a sustainable business model for SOU.

Now where did I put my dunce's cap?

[MadB]

Don’t think there is really a need for attacks and certain language.

Think we can all be adult and discuss things without offending each other.

One point is clear.
Connectivity for last 3 years, less than 700k pax annually, loosing millions and far from break even.

Investors won’t stick around if runway extension doesn’t start to yield profits.

Can AGS (the ones actually negotiating) afford to be picky?

[Mr A Tis]

That might be the timetabled cross country schedule. In reality many are regularly cancelled-totally unreliable service at ridiculous fares.
Two recent trips, 7 hours Bournemouth to Manchester. The next one 4.5 hours Winchester to Stockport, standing in first class for 4.5 hours. Most passengers denied boarding after Basingstoke due to overcrowding. People having to stand in toilets. This is reality of the so called train service.
The sooner someone gets back on the SOU-MAN route the better.

[SKOJB]

That might be the timetabled cross country schedule. In reality many are regularly cancelled-totally unreliable service at ridiculous fares.
Two recent trips, 7 hours Bournemouth to Manchester. The next one 4.5 hours Winchester to Stockport, standing in first class for 4.5 hours. Most passengers denied boarding after Basingstoke due to overcrowding. People having to stand in toilets. This is reality of the so called train service.
The sooner someone gets back on the SOU-MAN route the better.

Whether we like it or not, can see a time not too far away when MAN/GLA/BFS are double daily with orange. High frequency and 49 seats will not be sustainable in to the future, fact and reality!

[RW20]

Whether we like it or not, can see a time not too far away when MAN/GLA/BFS are double daily with orange. High frequency and 49 seats will not be sustainable in to the future, fact and reality!
You could be right,but for the airport to become profitable it needs a number of Sun/European routes,simply the domestic routes are not enough.
Let's wait and see!

[SotonFlightpath]

That might be the timetabled cross country schedule. In reality many are regularly cancelled-totally unreliable service at ridiculous fares.
Two recent trips, 7 hours Bournemouth to Manchester. The next one 4.5 hours Winchester to Stockport, standing in first class for 4.5 hours. Most passengers denied boarding after Basingstoke due to overcrowding. People having to stand in toilets. This is reality of the so called train service.
The sooner someone gets back on the SOU-MAN route the better.

Oh, I quite agree. I used to use most of the domestic routes from SOU as they offered such great flexibility. I remember organising an event for a client in Manchester which was over three days, but I needed to be back in Bishops Waltham for a short meeting over that period and it was all so easy to do. Up to Manchester on the Sunday afternoon, back to early Tuesday morning, back to Manchester that same afternoon and back again on the Wednesday morning. Similarly, day trips to Amsterdam, Newcastle and Dublin, and one-night trips to Düsseldorf made business travel so easy.
Nowadays I have to use LHR.

[rog747]

Yoohoo I'm back ---- Have I missed 'owt?

(The Greek Islands were rather nice)

I gather that LYS from BOH, and FAO from SOU has been added by EZY which is nice.
BACF culls more flights from SOU for S24 (Predicted)
Still no SOU-MAN flight yet, UGH!

I think I mentioned I wanted to go T'up North from SOU a while back to see an old pal in LPL.
Driving up there>? NO Way.
Train>? Are you MAD (Just read the Posts above about Cross Country Trains YUK)
Plane>?
Well, here's the thing --- Fly SOU-JER and then a nice quick connection on to EZY from JER to LPL and it's quicker than any other way possible,
and the cost was not too bad. (Under £100)

Apart from that, other news whilst I was away?,
TUI 737 goes off the runway on to the grass at LBA (Been there, done that twice in the early 1980's at BMA with 2 x Viscounts) Tea and Biscuits>? or Just Tea....
TUI's last 767's go to the Cargo Cash Converters, or in the case of 'YK' maybe now to the scrap man it seems.
A few more Ryanair winglets chopped off here and there.

[Rivet Joint]

I seem to recall an earlier debate where you’d suggested LM should have taken Q400s and I think someone from there had pointed out what a bad idea that was!

The point made was around the cost and extra hassle of having a new type of aircraft which of course is valid. However, Logan in only the last 5 years have shown they can still survive operating a wide range of aircraft at any one time. Various Saabs, embraers, dorniers, twin otters, islanders and ATRs. I understood the ATR selection on the basis the 42 model was the closest they could get to replacing the Saab 340s but they seem to be adding more of the 72 variety which is double the capacity of the 340s they are meant to be replacing. I haven’t got the figures to hand but the SOU Scotland routes have the potential to be the highest passenger demand routes they now serve. From memory they were seeing 200k annual at their peak. The 72 is clearly seen as not an option despite these routes warranting a larger aircraft. If Logan are happy to have 3 twin otters and 2 islanders then why not circa 8 q400s. The same argument applies in having the right equipment for the specific routes. My main point was that an EZY would see a q400 as much more of a contender than a tiny old business jet. Personally I’m glad EZY do not have much competition as I believe they and SOU are a perfect match and we will see a sizeable operation one day. We need to remember from a fleet standpoint they are playing catch-up post covid when all new deliveries were delayed.

[SWBKCB]

Any views as to why EZY's ski operation at BOH is bigger than SOU. Is it that specialist a market?

[MARKEYD]

EasyJet have been operating from BOH for over 18 years and most definitely have built up a strong customer presence
They also have contracts with Crystal Ski & Ingrams and use Ski club of Britain to advertise

Local ski clubs in France and ski apartments have a strong South coast presence a bit like ex pats who use the Bergerac route in the summer

[Saabdriver1]

I sometimes wish there was a guide to airline economics and why airlines do things. If there was, I wouldn't have to keep explaining to someone who seems very long on opinions but very short on practicalities of life!

Loganair flies a small fleet of Islanders and a small fleet of Twin Otters because it's paid to do so under PSO contracts on the routes they fly. The very nature of a PSO is to step in to make sure an air service exists on a route where none would be provided if the commercial market was left to itself. So by extension if Loganair wasn't paid to fly Islanders and Twin Otters under PSOs (and that's all those aircraft do) then it wouldn't do it. The inefficiency of a small fleet is taken into account in that process. Can we all agree that there's no way DFT or Eastleigh Borough Council would step in to cover that inefficiency for a small fleet of Q400s operating from Southampton?

Can you point me to any other airline which flies both ATR72s and Q400s in the same fleet? There may be one that I can't think of, but the illogical nature of having two aircraft of broadly similar size in a fleet means I don't believe there is. Loganair took the ATR because unlike the Q400 it was an aircraft type that was still in production and supported by the manufacturer and had a proven freighter variant as well. 4 of the ATRs are dedicted freighters. If you need an example of why manufacturer support is so important then you only need to look back as far as the disaster that was Flybe 2 which made much of its own bad luck but had some terrible trouble with spares and on-time delivery of Q400s.

The E145s have one big advantage which is speed. When you're operating GLA or EDI to SOU, it makes a big difference versus the ATR - so much so that the 145 can do four roundtrips in a day on those routes where an ATR could only do three.

It's pie in the sky to keep suggesting that a small fleet of Q400s is the way forward to serve Southampton. You must really hate Loganair to keep wishing Q400s on it so.

[RW20]

I sometimes wish there was a guide to airline economics and why airlines do things. If there was, I wouldn't have to keep explaining to someone who seems very long on opinions but very short on practicalities of life!

Loganair flies a small fleet of Islanders and a small fleet of Twin Otters because it's paid to do so under PSO contracts on the routes they fly. The very nature of a PSO is to step in to make sure an air service exists on a route where none would be provided if the commercial market was left to itself. So by extension if Loganair wasn't paid to fly Islanders and Twin Otters under PSOs (and that's all those aircraft do) then it wouldn't do it. The inefficiency of a small fleet is taken into account in that process. Can we all agree that there's no way DFT or Eastleigh Borough Council would step in to cover that inefficiency for a small fleet of Q400s operating from Southampton?

Can you point me to any other airline which flies both ATR72s and Q400s in the same fleet? There may be one that I can't think of, but the illogical nature of having two aircraft of broadly similar size in a fleet means I don't believe there is. Loganair took the ATR because unlike the Q400 it was an aircraft type that was still in production and supported by the manufacturer and had a proven freighter variant as well. 4 of the ATRs are dedicted freighters. If you need an example of why manufacturer support is so important then you only need to look back as far as the disaster that was Flybe 2 which made much of its own bad luck but had some terrible trouble with spares and on-time delivery of Q400s.

The E145s have one big advantage which is speed. When you're operating GLA or EDI to SOU, it makes a big difference versus the ATR - so much so that the 145 can do four roundtrips in a day on those routes where an ATR could only do three.

It's pie in the sky to keep suggesting that a small fleet of Q400s is the way forward to serve Southampton. You must really hate Loganair to keep wishing Q400s on it so.
Good points,It's essential that we keep loganair ,Q400 is a non starter, Easy and others for Sun routes,but there is big competition down the road which will have a major effect on destinations.

[Albert Hall]

One way or the other, the competition won’t last. Beyond a short term push for volume it also won’t be in SOU long term interest.

Look at the number of routes easyJet has gone on against Loganair and pulled off less than a year later. They do this to hold down smaller rivals - exactly what they’re doing at SOU on BFS and GLA and just like they do at LBA on BFS. You only need look at NCL-BRS for an example of a route once well served and now with a poor schedule from eJ but no other airline likely to go near - spoiling tactics all over the place.

And spare a thought for Newquay. They thought the arrival of easyJet was a route to big things. Their eJ Manchester service has been cut from five to two a week for next summer and the only other thing they do is Glasgow for about six weeks. That’s hardly generating much.

For all those saying Southampton wants volume, they might get it for a very short time. Just as Belfast City with easyJet trying to disrupt Emerald building a solid base there.

[davidjohnson6]

I get that spoiling tactics aren't ideal... but this is one of the consequences of free market competition. In any industry, dominant players always try to squeeze out weaker players to reduce competition - airlines are no different.

No competition regulator can regulate all industries perfectly all the time - to some extent players in a market have to deal with whatever happens instead of crying to Mummy.

Or would you prefer to go back to the 1970s when every potential new route had to spend months or years waiting for a rubber stamp from a bureaucrat ?

[SWBKCB]

Don't think anybody is crying to Mummy - just pointing out the consequences of a dominant player dumping capacity to stifle competition.

If EZY are truly interested in SOU there are plenty of routes they could chose to establish themselves (FAO and ALC being good examples) rather than existing routes. SOU are more likely to lose out from this approach than Emerald or Loganair. Neither are dependant on SOU, and can move on if EZY stick around whereas SOU could end up with a worse service on key routes.

Might all be fine, just seems like an odd move from EZY.

[SKOJB]

Don't think anybody is crying to Mummy - just pointing out the consequences of a dominant player dumping capacity to stifle competition.

If EZY are truly interested in SOU there are plenty of routes they could chose to establish themselves (FAO and ALC being good examples) rather than existing routes. SOU are more likely to lose out from this approach than Emerald or Loganair. Neither are dependant on SOU, and can move on if EZY stick around whereas SOU could end up with a worse service on key routes.

Might all be fine, just seems like an odd move from EZY.

You may be right although I personally believe there is more behind these recent domestic announcements and easyJet are planning something bigger at the airport. They have already committed further capacity for next summer on GLA/BFS and launched ALC/FAO with probably more to follow. They are definitely looking at the bigger picture and entrenching themselves for the future, at the possible expense of all smaller players. Whether that is good for SOU I guess only time will tell but it’s early days to be suggesting the airport has gone in the wrong direction!

[cavokblues]

That's certainly a positive spin. But it's the babiest of baby steps so far.

The airport really need easy on the PMI, Malaga, Tenerife style routes. That's where the growth is, in theory.

[SKOJB]

That's certainly a positive spin. But it's the babiest of baby steps so far.

The airport really need easy on the PMI, Malaga, Tenerife style routes. That's where the growth is, in theory.

Not really baby steps when you consider that up until recently the airport had only one orange route for the last 6 years. I do think the routes you mention will materialise sooner rather than later although I’m not saying it will happen in the next round of announcements that we are lead to believe will happen at the end of month?

[cavokblues]

1 flight per week to Faro and Alicante is, at this point, fairly underwhelming. Hopefully more to come.

[RW20]

That's certainly a positive spin. But it's the babiest of baby steps so far.

The airport really need easy on the PMI, Malaga, Tenerife style routes. That's where the growth is, in theory.
It certainly won't be Canaries,due to runway length ,also the highly popular Turkey is out of range.
So I don't see much inroads into.the vastly expanding BOH Summer operations.

[cavokblues]

I thought someone said on here last month all distances at SOU are now longer than SEN and Easy operated SEN - TFS.

[SouthernAlliance]

It certainly won't be Canaries,due to runway length ,also the highly popular Turkey is out of range.
So I don't see much inroads into.the vastly expanding BOH Summer operations.

Beg to differ and reckon TFS is very doable although maybe with a 10-15 load reduction on A320. As yet there is no vastly expanding BOH operation and any EZY route injection at SOU will for sure see an impact on numbers down the road. But, as we always say on here this is not a competition between south coast airports!

[Accura]

That might be the timetabled cross country schedule. In reality many are regularly cancelled-totally unreliable service at ridiculous fares.
Two recent trips, 7 hours Bournemouth to Manchester. The next one 4.5 hours Winchester to Stockport, standing in first class for 4.5 hours. Most passengers denied boarding after Basingstoke due to overcrowding. People having to stand in toilets. This is reality of the so called train service.
The sooner someone gets back on the SOU-MAN route the better.

Completely agree. It is one of the worst train services I've ever experienced. When factoring in delays it's usually quicker to go via London to the south coast from Manchester by rail... including the tube journey from Euston to Victoria/Waterloo. The service is usually formed of 4/5 coaches - far too short when the service doubles up as an intercity/commuter service due to the high number of stops. It's always overcrowded and is usually far more expensive than the flight. And like you said, so prone to delay due to the round-robin route that it takes. To put it into perspective I've previously caught the Piccadilly service from Southampton Central to the airport, and still been back in Manchester over an hour before the train arrives. And that's with getting to SOU 2 hours prior to departure, which is massively over cautious given how quick the door to gate experience is at Southampton.

I'm currently writing this from the 05:05 Avanti service from Piccadilly to London, from where I'll be later travelling onwards to Chichester to work for the next couple of days. Very much missing that route right now! Fingers crossed Loganair make an announcement soon.

[willy wombat]

The trouble is, if you were the Loganair CEO would you be keen to launch SOUMAN given that EZY has previously jumped on them at MAN (NQY and others) and at SOU (GLA obviously)?

[TartinTon]

The trouble is, if you were the Loganair CEO would you be keen to launch SOUMAN given that EZY has previously jumped on them at MAN (NQY and others) and at SOU (GLA obviously)?

I don't think this is the issue at all. You all seem to be missing the point that Logan don't have a based aircraft at either SOU or MAN. If you are going to serve the route properly, this is a prerequisite.
There are significant costs to setting up new bases and only SOU would actually be interested in having Logan base there. MAN actively discourage smaller gauge aircraft from basing there.

And then there's an issue with peak time slots/terminal capacity at MAN....

[SouthernAlliance]

I don't think this is the issue at all. You all seem to be missing the point that Logan don't have a based aircraft at either SOU or MAN. If you are going to serve the route properly, this is a prerequisite.
There are significant costs to setting up new bases and only SOU would actually be interested in having Logan base there. MAN actively discourage smaller gauge aircraft from basing there.

And then there's an issue with peak time slots/terminal capacity at MAN....

In which case get EZY on it asap. Eastern gave it a go but can’t organise a …. up in a brewery!

[The Nutts Mutts]

I thought someone said on here last month all distances at SOU are now longer than SEN and Easy operated SEN - TFS. Runway distances yeah, but it's the obstacle clearance on runway 20 where SOU currently suffers compared to SEN. Hence why the airport are so desperate to finally get those trees cut.

[cavokblues]

I must admit, I'm a tad confused by these trees and the obstacles.

TODA includes the clearway and the airport's recent appeal to cut the trees made very little reference to their impact upon performance.

Are they even still really an issue considering the distances now available and comparable to other airports like SEN?

[DC3 Dave]

I thought someone said on here last month all distances at SOU are now longer than SEN and Easy operated SEN - TFS.

So from memory SEN - TFS was restricted to 175 pax. Initially the based A320’s had 180 seats but are all now 186 I believe. I stand to be corrected but believe there were no restrictions between SEN-ACE.

[Flightrider]

I don't think this is the issue at all. You all seem to be missing the point that Logan don't have a based aircraft at either SOU or MAN. If you are going to serve the route properly, this is a prerequisite.
There are significant costs to setting up new bases and only SOU would actually be interested in having Logan base there. MAN actively discourage smaller gauge aircraft from basing there.

And then there's an issue with peak time slots/terminal capacity at MAN....

They have slots at MAN and SOU for Summer 2024 to fly the route. Aircraft overnights in SOU and schedule looks like it dovetails with some of the SOU-EDI flights so my guess would be an EDI based aircraft doing it.

Slots at MAN are within five minutes of what they asked for. Can’t easily tell if those are historic slots moved around from other routes. But it looks as if they have every ability to schedule this route with slots and aircraft if they actually want to do it.

And state of relations between Loganair and AGS at the moment can only be guessed!

[RA85684]

It would be a big and ballsy jump, but realistically - going forwards Loganair are going to have a big fight on their hands with price point. I think the next logical step is something like the E190E2.

A base at Southampton, alongside Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow and their Heathrow operations would easily support a fleet of 12 or so. It would open up opportunities with travel agents on charters out of the likes of Southampton, Isle of Man, Newquay and their bases, closer working partnership with BA perhaps even out of LCY again.

As mentioned, Flybe used to fill 78 seats multiple times a day out of SOU on at least 6 routes. Is it really behind belief that Loganair could offer a better price point, properly compete with easyJet and fill 110 seats on SOU-ABZ/EDI/GLA/NCL/MAN/BHD 3-6 daily?

I only recall NCL-SOU accurately enough to comment but Flybe operated up to 4 daily and pulled up to 12,000 monthly passengers. That should profitably sustain 3 daily flights on an 290 sized aircraft with decent load factors. And Flybe weren’t necessarily cheap either.

[willy wombat]

Don't want to be rude but I struggle to believe that someone could use the "Flybe used to do it" argument to suggest a route/aircraft type/frequency is a good idea. I think "Flybe used to do it" is basically a reason not to do something, or at least not to do it the Flybe way. Flybe tried the e jets and they didn't work for them. Even 'though the aircraft would be cheaper now, IMHO you will never achieve the cost per ASK on even an E 195 that you will on an A320.

[jmdavies86]

And state of relations between Loganair and AGS at the moment can only be guessed!

Considering that Loganair chose to completely suspend operations at NQY for the W22/23 season due to the "...short-sighted and short-term decisions by the airport’s management to incentivise unsustainable operations by other airlines" [as per the statement from their website (https://www.loganair.co.uk/our-story/latest-news/2022/loganair-suspends-cornwall-aiport-newquay-operations-this-winter/)] when it was announced that Flybe 2.0 were launching MAN-NQY flights, I can only guess that the state of relations between Loganair and AGS maybe a bit tense at the moment for the same/similar reason[s], although they've not made any kind of announcement regarding a reduction/withdrawal of services at SOU yet.

[rog747]

Someone above mentioned more growth about PMI Palma --- FYI this Summer (2023) saw BACF operate 5 weekly flights (2 were whole plane charters for TUI Holidays)
Do we need more?
If so, then it will be likely EasyJet Europe (who have a Palma Base) that will supply, as they have done with a SOU-FAO for Summer 2024
(and who have at last restarted SEN leisure flights again with some success)

Re TFS
EasyJet Europe have no bases of Aircraft nor Crews in the Canary Islands, so you will not see a TFS-SOU route unless that situation changes,
or, Easyjet UK actually open a fixed base at SOU with some aircraft and crews (as has been lamented on here for a decade or more).

[SouthernAlliance]

Someone above mentioned more growth about PMI Palma --- FYI this Summer (2023) saw BACF operate 5 weekly flights (2 were whole plane charters for TUI Holidays)
Do we need more?
If so, then it will be likely EasyJet Europe (who have a Palma Base) that will supply, as they have done with a SOU-FAO for Summer 2024
(and who have at last restarted SEN leisure flights again with some success)

Re TFS
EasyJet Europe have no bases of Aircraft nor Crews in the Canary Islands, so you will not see a TFS-SOU route unless that situation changes,
or, Easyjet UK actually open a fixed base at SOU with some aircraft and crews (as has been lamented on here for a decade or more).

would be surprised if easyjet’s next batch of route releases don’t include SOU to AGP/PMI. Always amazes me how many flights across the U.K. there is to PMI but clearly demand is there for a wonderful island!

[rog747]

would be surprised if easyjet’s next batch of route releases don’t include SOU to AGP/PMI. Always amazes me how many flights across the U.K. there is to PMI but clearly demand is there for a wonderful island!

Indeed, I think personally that EasyJet will mirror at SOU more similar routes that it has reintroduced at SEN Southend such as those you mention above.

FWIW - and applicable to SOU Leisure expansions

TUI have just dropped some new destinations it had planned out of BOH for next Summer (such as Tunisia) and have upped their Palma to 5 weekly flights.
With Ryanair also operating 9 services a week, Palma will now be 14 x 737-800 flights a week from BOH for S24, being the highest ever?
I remember when it was one Spantax CV990 a week, or later on a couple of Palmair 146's per week!

TUI have been advertising for more Bournemouth based cabin and flight crew for next summer, and have said that BOH will have the 2 TUI 738's again for S25.

From the BOH thread >
Hays Travel have sold-out their BOH-Barbados Fly Cruises for Winter 24 & 25 already.
P&O Cruises began the first of their BOH-BGI flights this month with 7 TUI Charters operating this winter for them.
Hays Travel could sell more Fly-Cruises from BOH but have trouble sourcing long-haul aircraft, as a shortage of TUI B787s this winter and no other suitable UK carriers anymore.

[RW20]

Will there be demand for extra Palma flights from SOU?

[MARKEYD]

TUI are using easyJet to fly holidaymakers to Portugal and Spain next summer and have added a programme of holidays to fit in

The Tuesday flight to Palma it’s still tba with TUI but I suspect it will be Cityflyer again as they have just added another Tuesday flight from LCY which fits in for the high season ( same as this summer )

There is a massive demand for Palma and not to be underestimated from this region

[SouthernAlliance]

Will there be demand for extra Palma flights from SOU?

Answer would be yes I suspect and many would rather fly with EZY for a small premium over RYR etc

[Dropoffcharge]

So Steve Szalay has now joined the RCA group (who own BOH) as Chief Operating Officer....didn't see that one coming.

[RW20]

So Steve Szalay has now joined the RCA group (who own BOH) as Chief Operating Officer....didn't see that one coming.
Great move for him,and for BOH, shame we lost him,the present SOU management are yet to shine!

[Sotonsean]

German Airways are operating an Embraer 190 on behalf of KLM for the next few months due to concurrent engine issues with their existing fleet.

German Airways Embraer 190 D-AMWO is currently planned to operate KL919/920 Amsterdam to Southampton and return on Saturday, 18 November 2023. I'm not sure if the aircraft has already been seen at Southampton, but it's due to operate on the route on a regular basis over the next few months.

Although German Airways is operating on behalf of KLM, it's still nice to see a new airline on the apron at Southampton Airport.

[Jn14:6]

D-ANJK has been a fairly regular visitor for KL for a couple of weeks now, and IIRC D-AMWO visited once, last week.

[Sotonsean]

D-ANJK has been a fairly regular visitor for KL for a couple of weeks now, and IIRC D-AMWO visited once, last week.

Many thanks for the further information it's appreciated 👍

I personally don't tend to keep up with aircraft movements. It's good to know that the German Airways Embraer 190 has been a recent and also a frequent visitor to Southampton Airport.

[rog747]

So, many of you are getting your Xmas wish....EasyJet Europe now serving SOU to Faro and to Alicante yay!

With EZY Swiss going all apace to GVA for this SKI season (and also to GVA and LYS from BOH)

There will be more.....

SEN also gets the ALC too,
along with PMI FAO AGP GNB GVA CDG and AMS
(SEN is really picking up, with BH Air doing a high season summer charter to Bourgas too)

[SouthernAlliance]

So, many of you are getting your Xmas wish....EasyJet Europe now serving SOU to Faro and to Alicante yay!

With EZY Swiss going all apace to GVA for this SKI season (and also to GVA and LYS from BOH)

There will be more.....

SEN also gets the ALC too,
along with PMI FAO AGP GNB GVA CDG and AMS
(SEN is really picking up, with BH Air doing a high season summer charter to Bourgas too)

Would expect to see AGP/PMI added soon with maybe further frequency on ALC/FAO

[RW20]

No sign of any other airline starting from SOU,and Easy Jet has gone quiet!
An we expect any news as December approaches?

[Sotonsean]

No sign of any other airline starting from SOU,and Easy Jet has gone quiet!
An we expect any news as December approaches?

No one knows the answer to your question. We've been told numerous times before by a couple of poster's that "all will become clearer in October/November" and all we've had so far is an announcement by easyjet confirming that BFS and GLA are to be year-round and a measly summer season of flights to Alicante and Faro.

I know you always ask the same questions, but to be honest, you will have to wait it out like the rest of us.

I think that our only hope is for easyjet to eventually announce AGP and PMI, but considering that December is fast approaching, I'm not holding my breath. It is a pity that easyjet announced BOH to LYS rather than SOU to LYS.

I'm also hoping that Loganair eventually announces a long-awaited service from MAN to SOU.

In the long term, I would like to see Lufthansa announce a route from either Frankfurt or Munich.

Other than that, I can't think of anything else to look forward to in the coming months at SOU 🤔

[SKOJB]

No one knows the answer to your question. We've been told numerous times before by a couple of poster's that "all will become clearer in October/November" and all we've had so far is an announcement by easyjet confirming that BFS and GLA are to be year-round and a measly summer season of flights to Alicante and Faro.

I know you always ask the same questions, but to be honest, you will have to wait it out like the rest of us.

I think that our only hope is for easyjet to eventually announce AGP and PMI, but considering that December is fast approaching, I'm not holding my breath. It is a pity that easyjet announced BOH to LYS rather than SOU to LYS.

I'm also hoping that Loganair eventually announces a long-awaited service from MAN to SOU.

In the long term, I would like to see Lufthansa announce a route from either Frankfurt or Munich.

Other than that, I can't think of anything else to look forward to in the coming months at SOU 🤔

What you mean the huge ski schedule of 4 BOH departures for LYS!

[Sotonsean]

What you mean the huge ski schedule of 4 departures for LYS!

Yes, considering that easyjet is obviously interested in expanding from Southampton. Regardless of the fact that it's only 4 departures. If LYS was at SOU rather than BOH, it could well have operated for a slightly longer period for winter 2024/25. At least it would have been another destination offered by easyjet from SOU, irrespective of the fact that it's only 4 flights.

[SKOJB]

Yes, considering that easyjet is obviously interested in expanding from Southampton. Regardless of the fact that it's only 4 departures. If LYS was at SOU rather than BOH, it could well have operated for a slightly longer period for winter 2024/25. At least it would have been another destination offered by easyjet from SOU, irrespective of the fact that it's only 4 flights.

I do find it bizarre that those flights couldn’t be operated from SOU when its clear EZY see their future at the airport, maybe keeping AGS on their toes!

[Sotonsean]

I do find it bizarre that those flights couldn’t be operated from SOU when its clear EZY see their future at the airport, maybe keeping AGS on their toes!

Exactly and that's why I made my initial comments. I'm pleased that you now agree to what I originally stated 🤗

[SKOJB]

Exactly and that's why I made my initial comments. I'm pleased that you now agree to what I originally stated 🤗

Yes. By all accounts EZY are due to release a 2nd batch of routes anytime now so would expect/hope that as you say PMI/AGP at the very least shall be added. Small steps but I can envisage a sizeable presence from orange over the next 12/18 months!

[SWBKCB]

As well as Lyon, Easy have more Geneva flights from Bournemouth, so maybe not that bizarre. They've been growing that market for years.

[Albert Hall]

I think you will see something more very soon, but don’t get too excited. If that’s to be the lot from easyJet, the airport must be sorely disappointed. The more I hear, the more it looks like easyJet are only in SOU as a spoiler in an effort to deter anyone else growing there and it becoming a threat to Gatwick.

[SKOJB]

I think you will see something more very soon, but don’t get too excited. If that’s to be the lot from easyJet, the airport must be sorely disappointed. The more I hear, the more it looks like easyJet are only in SOU as a spoiler in an effort to deter anyone else growing there and it becoming a threat to Gatwick.

Why disappointment, for the past 6 years easyjet has only ever operated one seasonal ski route, now with a runway extension hardly dry the airport possibly has 6 additional orange destinations for sun and domestics. Outside of based aircraft being present, what on earth more can be expected in such a short space of time?

[Sotonsean]

I think you will see something more very soon, but don’t get too excited. If that’s to be the lot from easyJet, the airport must be sorely disappointed. The more I hear, the more it looks like easyJet are only in SOU as a spoiler in an effort to deter anyone else growing there and it becoming a threat to Gatwick.

If you are assuming that "easyjet are only in SOU as a spoiler in an effort to deter anyone else growing there and it becoming a threat to Gatwick" then surely they would have started routes that currently don't have any existing operators.

The measly summer season of flights to Alicante and Faro aren't really a long-term threat to Gatwick nor is competing with Aer Lingus or Loganair at SOU. Regardless of what routes they announce, SOU will never be a threat to LGW. The likes of AGP, ALC, FAO, IBZ, PMI can easily exist at SOU without ever becoming a threat to LGW.

I get the impression that easyJet is just cherry-picking the routes rather than seeing SOU as a real threat to LGW. A very small airport such as SOU with under one million passengers is not really a threat to LGW with nearly 50 million passengers p/a. SOU is almost two hours away from LGW and is able to attract passengers without it being a threat to LGW, especially considering the large operation by easyjet based at that airport.

I don't necessarily think that easyJet is at SOU as a true spoiler. They are operating the routes because they feel that there is a demand not because they want to spoil any further competition.

As my previous post's show, I've never been over optimistic regarding any real expansion at SOU from easyJet. If they were that intent on growing at SOU, I think they would have announced by now more routes than they currently have. After all, they have had every opportunity to do so, but all we have so far is ALC, BFS, FAO, GLA, plus the existing GVA.

Hopefully, as you and others have mentioned, easyJet will announce further routes from SOU in the coming weeks.

People are saying "small steps" or something similar. Well, those steps are certainly small.

[TCAS FAN]

Have noticed that Stand 11 and Stand 12 NOTAMed as closed until 21 Feb/10 Jan respectively. What is happening, perhaps the boundary fence being moved to provide longer Stands to accommodate A320s?

[Sotonsean]

Why disappointment, for the past 6 years easyjet has only ever operated one seasonal ski route, now with a runway extension hardly dry the airport possibly has 6 additional orange destinations for sun and domestics. Outside of based aircraft being present, what on earth more can be expected in such a short space of time?

Of course SOU must be disappointed. The airport has recently completed a long awaited runway extension costing £17.5 million with the hope of attracting new airlines and routes.

If the airport were pinning their hopes on easyJet then surely they are disappointed with what has already been announced. I know I am and so are others on here.

Regardless of the fact that for six years easyJet have just operated a seasonal flight from GVA, one would have assumed that they would have announced more routes by now than they already have.

It's not really "a short space of time" considering that easyJet obviously knew about the runway extension in advance but made no announcements at the time.

EasyJet have so far announced ALC, BFS, FAO, GLA, thats four routes plus the existing GVA which makes it five routes. Where are you getting the six from, unless you're expecting them to shortly announce PMI. Other than ALC and GVA those other destinations currently see service from other airlines at SOU.

[cavokblues]

How many extra seats do the new routes equate to? As far as the airport is concerned, that's what matters.

[ATNotts]

Of course SOU must be disappointed. The airport has recently completed a long awaited runway extension costing £17.5 million with the hope of attracting new airlines and routes.

If the airport were pinning their hopes on easyJet then surely they are disappointed with what has already been announced. I know I am and so are others on here.

Regardless of the fact that for six years easyJet have just operated a seasonal flight from GVA, one would have assumed that they would have announced more routes by now than they already have.

It's not really "a short space of time" considering that easyJet obviously knew about the runway extension in advance but made no announcements at the time.

EasyJet have so far announced ALC, BFS, FAO, GLA, thats four routes plus the existing GVA which makes it five routes. Where are you getting the six from, unless you're expecting them to shortly announce PMI. Other than ALC and GVA those other destinations currently see service from other airlines at SOU.
The runway extension is a long term investment and I'm sure the airport owners view it thus.

That there are only comparatively few route developments announced so far for S24 probably doesn't matter. In the longer term I feel sure more services that require the extra runway length will follow in the months and years to come.

Patience is a virtue as we were told as kids!

[speedrestriction]

Organic growth is far superior to “throw a load of routes at it and see what sticks.” A company who expands on the basis of using data to figure out where demand is will make better, more informed and hopefully more sustainable investment decisions which ultimately benefits everyone employed by the airlines, airport and the ancillary businesses linked to both.

Also, what is the opportunity cost of taking those aircraft off other routes? If an airline was to show up tomorrow with ten airframes and forty routes you need to question what has this company been doing with their assets that they feel confident that trying them in an untested market is likely to give them more return than what they have been currently generating.

Additionally there is a lot of work that needs to be done around schedule to make sure that the aircraft are being used in an efficient manner. Arrival and departure slots, especially at holiday destinations during peak season are very valuable to a company and need to utilised to the company’s maximum benefit. To give capacity to these destinations ex SOU means that a company has had to reduce capacity on an existing route or apply for additional slots. Airlines do lots of market research before launching a route but the proof of the pudding is in the eating and if demand is high and yield is strong then it would be reasonable to expect more long term investment and growth.

[Rivet Joint]

The impatience on here is really something.

here is a question, does the runway extension mean SOU is instantly ready for a large increase in routes and larger aircraft? Or do all other facilities need time to be upgraded first? We have had the work to the stands after the runway extension, maybe next is the security areas? Maybe the third party that serves the aircraft is waiting on new equipment to serve more larger aircraft at once? Maybe the terminal extension is needed? Etc etc. I’m sure low cost operators have a list of requirements before they move in.

It’s going to be gradual growth whilst those things are dealt with.

I see Jet2 have just ordered a load more A320Ns….

[cavokblues]

Yeah, low cost operators are renown for demanding a lot of requirements before they move in. Usually it's a shed and a runway long enough.....

The issue with the patience aspect is Southampton's operators are losing millions of pounds a year and are on their latest accounts as saying there is a material concern to their ongoing viability.

The new routes may well be coming soon, but they need to be as the airport needs to return to pre pandemic numbers sooner rather than later.

[RW20]

Yeah, low cost operators are renown for demanding a lot of requirements before they move in. Usually it's a shed and a runway long enough.....

The issue with the patience aspect is Southampton's operators are losing millions of pounds a year and are on their latest accounts as saying there is a material concern to their ongoing viability.

The new routes may well be coming soon, but they need to be as the airport needs to return to pre pandemic numbers sooner rather than later.
Good points,the question is will there be enough routes to make SOU profitable again?

[easyflyer83]

Yeah, low cost operators are renown for demanding a lot of requirements before they move in. Usually it's a shed and a runway long enough.....

The issue with the patience aspect is Southampton's operators are losing millions of pounds a year and are on their latest accounts as saying there is a material concern to their ongoing viability.

The new routes may well be coming soon, but they need to be as the airport needs to return to pre pandemic numbers sooner rather than later.

LCC’s can be tough cookies to deal with. Whilst they might not necessarily be demanding of all the bells and whistles, they are very demanding of efficiencies, behind the scenes as it were.

Airports want the LCC’s because, whilst they may not have the prestige of a hub carrier flying to their hub, they do bring volume and destinations. With that in mind, the LCC can be fairly picky and demanding.

[Asturias56]

LCC's fill the car parks, the bars and the duty free's - that's where the money is made by the airport owners

and a lot of LCC traffic means you can run a full revenue generating operation almost 24/7 - people sitting there from 04:00 waiting for the curfew to end at 06:00 for example.

A few LCC flights isn't nearly as useful- see Doncaster

[cavokblues]

I agree they can drive hard commercial deals but my point was more about I don't think they're fussed about terminal expansions, security numbers etc. We've all flown with certain airlines, orange, pink and blue, where the airport is completely lacking in that department.

[Sotonsean]

LCC's fill the car parks, the bars and the duty free's - that's where the money is made by the airport owners

and a lot of LCC traffic means you can run a full revenue generating operation almost 24/7 - people sitting there from 04:00 waiting for the curfew to end at 06:00 for example.

A few LCC flights isn't nearly as useful- see Doncaster

Although I agree with most of your comments in the above post. (Must be a first for me) There's one thing I don't entirely agree with.

Doncaster isn't really a good example is it. At the end they only had TUI and before that Wizz as well. The airport was very reliant on LCCs and IT flights. SOU currently has eight airlines serving the airport, of which one is only an LCC. SOU is also a very important airport within the UK domestic scene whereas Doncaster wasn't. Two totally different airports serving totally different markets. If SOU had the same runway length and terminal size as Doncaster, it would without doubt be a far busier airport than it currently is, with or without a based LCC.

[Buster the Bear]

The plan pre-covid was a Hurn base for Jet2, so if they have ordered A320N, Southampton might have a case if 24/7.

[Retired LAE]

Having booked twice in 2024 with BA regional to fly SOU - PMI - SOU have just received text saying flights from SOU cancelled. Very disappointed. Anyone have any updates/news?

[RW20]

What has happened with BA cityflyer 2024, Palma not bookable for summer service? It was a excellent service ,a blow for SOU?

[Retired LAE]

Ref my post 2430 - getting my head around it now. My MAY 2024 booking with BA regional SOU - PMI - SOU still okay however 28 SEPT 2024 out & 5 OCT 2024 back now canx. BA programme from SOU to PMI now seems to end mid SEPT 2024. Same airfare ticket price to rebook however hotel price an additional £285 for bringing holiday forward 2 weeks! Annoying to say the least.

[SKOJB]

At present still operating a Sunday service although Sat and 2nd Sun have been dropped. Would imagine EZY possibly coming in with a summer schedule to PMI has made BA utilise their airframe elsewhere!

[RW20]

At present still operating a Sunday service although Sat and 2nd Sun have been dropped. Would imagine EZY possibly coming in with a summer schedule to PMI has made BA utilise their airframe elsewhere!
Shame I'm sure we will see the end of BA in 2024,good service ,lots of leg room and timing was good ! ,all the hype of 11 destinations from BA for SOU has fizzled out,I guess the demand wasn't there.

[Sotonsean]

Shame I'm sure we will see the end of BA in 2024,good service ,lots of leg room and timing was good ! ,all the hype of 11 destinations from BA for SOU has fizzled out,I guess the demand wasn't there.

The demand is surely there but not with the very limited schedule offered by BA. Week long holidays are not suited to everyone including myself. Being a BA Executive member I'm continuing to use my avios at LGW and LHR. I tend to go away for 3 or 4 days something that you can't do with BA from Southampton. Plus the limited amount of destinations that BA offered didn't necessarily appeal to me.

When you use the BA App the drop down menu has London for LGW and LGW. You have to either search or type Southampton as a departure airport. The App doesn't make it easy for anyone looking for flights from Southampton. I should imagine that the majority of the travelling public are totally unware of the fact that BA offer a limited number of flights from Southampton.

But in saying that it's an absolute shame to see BA go from 13 destinations down to four in 2024. BA in my opinion are a good fit for Southampton, it's just a pity that they never took it seriously. But then again I can often be at LHR T5 within n hour of leaving my front door.

I'm not a huge fan of easyJet but I have travelled with them on several occasions over the years. They have certainly improved as an airline since my first flight with them back in 2003. If easyJet offered more destinations from Southampton with a good schedule I would be more willing to use them especially if BCN was eventually announced.

[Pain in the R's]

So far Southampton has lost more destinations than it has gained despite the runway extension?

[RW20]

Maybe the management need to take responsibility for this,they recently lost their main man to BOH owners , perhaps significant!

[SouthernAlliance]

So far Southampton has lost more destinations than it has gained despite the runway extension?

Unfortunately BA we’re never going to hang around once the runway extension was complete. Prior to this their planes were suited to the shorter runway but now with the likes of easyjet adding routes, they are never going to be able to compete and will instead retrench back to LCY and other weekend charter work around the U.K.

[MARKEYD]

Its very disappointing to see BA reduce their services from SOU but not surprising to be honest
BA as we all know were only ever going to operate until something better came along , look at BRS , STN and BHX operations in the past years

Crewing and hotac was a massive problem and always will be when they operate away from home bases , the cost etc ( as previously discussed )

Alicante and Limoges has also been removed from the booking engine

TUI are still using BA to Palma but with revised flight times now

Would imagine that BA have second guessed EasyJet are lurking and have done the honerable thing and withdrawn

[SWBKCB]

I agree - always a marriage of convenience. What's the BA summer schedule now?

[SouthernAlliance]

I agree - always a marriage of convenience. What's the BA summer schedule now?

one weekly Sat/Sun to PMI, AGP, FAO, EGC (at present)

[easyflyer83]

I agree they can drive hard commercial deals but my point was more about I don't think they're fussed about terminal expansions, security numbers etc. We've all flown with certain airlines, orange, pink and blue, where the airport is completely lacking in that department.

That wasn’t my point. I have an insight into what LCC’s want from an airport. They have great leverage of where they park right through to kicking up a fuss when the crew car park buses aren’t running as they should. In other words, they aren’t just happy with a shoddy operation. That operation might not be required to have the full bells and whistles but it absolutely needs to be supporting the carriers flying programme.

There is an assumption by some here that LCC’s are very laid back about things. That’s not the case.

[MadB]

Maybe the management need to take responsibility for this,they recently lost their main man to BOH owners , perhaps significant!

Hum, can you explain more? What was the impact of the departure of Steve Szalay?

[Asturias56]

If Ryanair have taught us one thing it is that its about the need for remorseless attention to EVERY tiny detail that makes an LCC a cash machine

[cavokblues]

I was coming from the perspective of simply operating to rather than being based at an airport.

SeanM1997's twitter suggesting Belfast City seeing some new easyJet holiday action. Will we also see news on new routes from Southampton?

[SKOJB]

Hum, can you explain more? What was the impact of the departure of Steve Szalay?

Absolutely no impact, new airlines/routes are negotiated at group level within their commercial teams, local airport MD’s are in situ to primarily operate the airport on a daily basis!

[cavokblues]

New route from easyJet: PMI twice per week for the summer from 2nd May.

[Albert Hall]

Yep - and that's it for easyJet for 2024. It is a step forward but not the giant leap for mankind that Southampton hoped for and needed.

[RW20]

Yep - and that's it for easyJet for 2024. It is a step forward but not the giant leap for mankind that Southampton hoped for and needed.
If that is so,then it's very underwhelming and disappointing for the airport,potential holiday makers and more importantly it's not going to increase the PAX numbers greatly to get near 1.2mil to break even!

[SouthernAlliance]

Guess the only hope is EZY may add a little more frequency to their new summer routes

[RW20]

Guess the only hope is EZY may add a little more frequency to their new summer routes
There's been much speculation over weeks about another airline announcing routes from SOU,surely this would have come to light by now?,and what's happening domestically 're Manchester?
Much needed extra traffic needed for 2024!

[SWBKCB]

If EZY aren't going to do MAN, who else is likely to launch a domestic service to an EZY base?

EZY have launched popular routes, I guess it is 'use it or lose it'

[RW20]

If EZY aren't going to do MAN, who else is likely to launch a domestic service to an EZY base?

EZY have launched popular routes, I guess it is 'use it or lose it'
Loganair ? ATR 3x a day ,but they can't be happy with SOU at the moment!

[SouthernAlliance]

If that is so,then it's very underwhelming and disappointing for the airport,potential holiday makers and more importantly it's not going to increase the PAX numbers greatly to get near 1.2mil to break even!

Here goes, a back of a fag packet calculation on EZY seats available (departures & arrivals) that are currently in their booking engine suggests the following:

ALC 8184 (320), PMI 13020 (320), FAO 4836 (320), BFS 49296 (319), GLA 46176 (319), GVA 29388 (320) = 150900 seats (01/01/24 - 01/09/24). Expected total airport pax ‘23 is 750k so ‘24 with these orange additions will make circa 900k and this before anything added for Sept onwards. Predictions of 1m pa in 2024 definitely achievable, not withstanding there could be some reductions from Loganair/BA etc!

[SWBKCB]

Are all those GVA seats new one's?

[SouthernAlliance]

Are all those GVA seats new one's?

Data taken from booking engine Start Jan-end March for GVA. Apologies to all if my fag packet hasn’t worked correctly!

[Rivet Joint]

That wasn’t my point. I have an insight into what LCC’s want from an airport. They have great leverage of where they park right through to kicking up a fuss when the crew car park buses aren’t running as they should. In other words, they aren’t just happy with a shoddy operation. That operation might not be required to have the full bells and whistles but it absolutely needs to be supporting the carriers flying programme.

There is an assumption by some here that LCC’s are very laid back about things. That’s not the case.

Exactly the point I was originally making and which had been misconstrued as usual.

On one hand we have the usual suspects saying simply the curfew in isolation will prevent a low cost operator ever moving in and now the same people are saying such operators aren’t really fussy and are happy with just a runway and a shed. Contradiction much?

To make money at their margins everything has to be run like a well oiled machine with assets making money as much as possible. I seem to be one of the few supporters of SOU on here but I have the sense to appreciate that it currently struggles to serve 2 a320s at the same time. Many improvements are still no doubt needed be it larger security areas, terminal space for many hundreds more people to sit somewhere, more airside equipment like tugs, even the taxiway to reduce the time backtracking etc etc.

Regardless of the level of frequency if you told me last year SOU would now have EZY serving 6 routes I’d say that’s a great start. I’ve heard the domestic routes are nearly full which speaks volumes about the untapped market locally for cheap flights. A lot of these are people who are unlikely to ever pay LMs prices and frequency clearly isn’t an issue either. Exciting times but yes let’s moan moan moan.

[cavokblues]

Exactly the point I was originally making and which had been misconstrued as usual.

On one hand we have the usual suspects saying simply the curfew in isolation will prevent a low cost operator ever moving in and now the same people are saying such operators aren’t really fussy and are happy with just a runway and a shed. Contradiction much?

Well, that's clearly aimed at me and despite complaining about people misconstruing your claims, you then, amusingly, do exactly that to me.

My point was made in response to simply operating to an airport. A lot of smaller airports in Europe which are served more frequently than what easyJet are offering next summer are little more than a runway and a shed. If there is talk of a base, then obviously airlines are going to be more demanding. But we don't need based aircraft for a huge increase in seats offered by easyJet.

FWIW, I think there is plenty of latent capacity at Southampton currently to handle way more pax and operations than is currently being offered by easyJet. I don't think there needs to be some hugely detailed masterplan and agreement between the the airline and the operator to achieve more than what it is offering next summer.

[stewyb]

Good to hear easyJet domestic loads are doing very well and S24 routes have now been announced, I wish the airport the very best!

[RW20]

Any further info on a "a new player coming" as mentioned in your recent post?

[SKOJB]

Guess the only hope is EZY may add a little more frequency to their new summer routes

You can be sure the limited that are already on sale will be snapped up damn quick!

[BristolexFlyer]

The cost of establishing a new base is considerable, not to mention the forward planning required. Southampton will have to play this one carefully. These new routes for S24 are the best way of testing, experiencing and adapting the market to their brand. S25 will be here before we know it, and if next summer is a success, considered, appropriate expansion will take place. Chucking a 3 aircraft base at it this early on is too risky. There is Loganair to consider. Were easyJet to start double daily or more EDI/GLA flights for example, which would be likely, then you oust Loganair somewhat. Suddenly SOU is back to relying heavily on one carrier.

Growth will occur at SOU, but it needs to be at the right time, and on the appropriate scale.

BristolexFlyer

[easyflyer83]

Exactly the point I was originally making and which had been misconstrued as usual.

On one hand we have the usual suspects saying simply the curfew in isolation will prevent a low cost operator ever moving in and now the same people are saying such operators aren’t really fussy and are happy with just a runway and a shed. Contradiction much?

To make money at their margins everything has to be run like a well oiled machine with assets making money as much as possible. I seem to be one of the few supporters of SOU on here but I have the sense to appreciate that it currently struggles to serve 2 a320s at the same time. Many improvements are still no doubt needed be it larger security areas, terminal space for many hundreds more people to sit somewhere, more airside equipment like tugs, even the taxiway to reduce the time backtracking etc etc.

Regardless of the level of frequency if you told me last year SOU would now have EZY serving 6 routes I’d say that’s a great start. I’ve heard the domestic routes are nearly full which speaks volumes about the untapped market locally for cheap flights. A lot of these are people who are unlikely to ever pay LMs prices and frequency clearly isn’t an issue either. Exciting times but yes let’s moan moan moan.

I’ve never regarded the curfew as being something that automatically rules SOU out as an LCC base. That said, I don’t see SOU being an easyJet base, at least anytime soon, but remember that much of the EJU base network have to adhere to strict curfews.

[adfly]

It is good to see some of the 'promised' developments coming to fruition, even if it is on a small scale for the time being. Even with BA cutbacks the difference in aircraft size alone means the introduction of easyJet represents a fairly significant increase in capacity to the likes of Alicante, Faro and Palma. I'm a little less sure on the domestic routes, probably a feeling that has shared by some on here. I hope for the Glasgow route there is a happy medium where Loganair can operate a frequent and consistent service aimed at business travellers and easyJet will fly a ~daily service directed at leisure traffic, and likely also filling a gap for an out-based aircraft, hopefully without trashing the yields of their competitor too much. As has been seen at the likes of Birmingham with easyJet, as soon as there is no competition on a domestic route it seems to slip well down their list of priorities.

It's a tricky situation for the airport, as they have to balance incentivising easyJet to start routes and grow at the airport, without risking decimating their existing airline portfolio. Indeed I do hope that the 'Flybe effect' remains fresh in the minds of the people in charge, as it would be a real shame to see the airport being too reliant on a single airline again. For what it's worth, I'm in the camp that believes that there won't be an easyJet base at Southampton anytime soon, but I am optimistic that an increase in non-based flying will result if the current routes perform well.

Regarding the Belfast route, I'm a little more optimistic about this one. Aer Lingus Regional compete with easyJet on many of their Belfast City - UK routes, mostly indirectly with easyJet flying to International. There should be a clearer balance of the 'value' easyJet option and the more business oriented (in schedule and arrival airport) Aer Lingus one. I expect the economics of flying an ATR 72 vs a 319/320 also stack up a fair bit better than even a fully paid off ERJ145!

Regarding the return of the Manchester route, it appears from the Manchester S24 ACL report that Loganair hold slots for 2x daily flights throughout the season. I guess we will see if this comes to anything soon...

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiMzM1OTc5ZjktZTJkNS00NjBkLThmNDgtOGU1ZGI0NTZhM TFjIiwidCI6ImJhNzNmYjViLWM1ZWUtNGNiNy04NzFjLWU4YjI0NWQwYjY3Y iJ9

[RivieraTouch]

New route from easyJet: PMI twice per week for the summer from 2nd May.Nice flight times if you go Mon to Thu.

[SouthernAlliance]

It is good to see some of the 'promised' developments coming to fruition, even if it is on a small scale for the time being. Even with BA cutbacks the difference in aircraft size alone means the introduction of easyJet represents a fairly significant increase in capacity to the likes of Alicante, Faro and Palma. I'm a little less sure on the domestic routes, probably a feeling that has shared by some on here. I hope for the Glasgow route there is a happy medium where Loganair can operate a frequent and consistent service aimed at business travellers and easyJet will fly a ~daily service directed at leisure traffic, and likely also filling a gap for an out-based aircraft, hopefully without trashing the yields of their competitor too much. As has been seen at the likes of Birmingham with easyJet, as soon as there is no competition on a domestic route it seems to slip well down their list of priorities.

It's a tricky situation for the airport, as they have to balance incentivising easyJet to start routes and grow at the airport, without risking decimating their existing airline portfolio. Indeed I do hope that the 'Flybe effect' remains fresh in the minds of the people in charge, as it would be a real shame to see the airport being too reliant on a single airline again. For what it's worth, I'm in the camp that believes that there won't be an easyJet base at Southampton anytime soon, but I am optimistic that an increase in non-based flying will result if the current routes perform well.

Regarding the Belfast route, I'm a little more optimistic about this one. Aer Lingus Regional compete with easyJet on many of their Belfast City - UK routes, mostly indirectly with easyJet flying to International. There should be a clearer balance of the 'value' easyJet option and the more business oriented (in schedule and arrival airport) Aer Lingus one. I expect the economics of flying an ATR 72 vs a 319/320 also stack up a fair bit better than even a fully paid off ERJ145!

Regarding the return of the Manchester route, it appears from the Manchester S24 ACL report that Loganair hold slots for 2x daily flights throughout the season. I guess we will see if this comes to anything soon...

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiMzM1OTc5ZjktZTJkNS00NjBkLThmNDgtOGU1ZGI0NTZhM TFjIiwidCI6ImJhNzNmYjViLWM1ZWUtNGNiNy04NzFjLWU4YjI0NWQwYjY3Y iJ9

Further to my post #2454 and the above slots listed for LM MAN x 2 daily, that could also yield circa 50k pa in pax numbers, add that to the 900k previously predicted plus Sept 24 - Dec 24 EZY seats and the magical 1m barrier looks very likely with the airport I would suggest well on its way to break even!

[SWBKCB]

Further to my post #2454 and the above slots listed for LM MAN x 2 daily, that could also yield circa 50k pa in pax numbers, add that to the 900k previously predicted plus Sept 24 - Dec 24 EZY seats and the magical 1m barrier looks very likely with the airport I would suggest well on its way to break even!

Things have changed since those slots were applied for - are LM likely to launch a route now to an EZY base?

[rog747]

Sadly BA's inroads to SOU totally ''Dropped the Ball'' because they had planned the SOU start-up just as that Pesky Flu kicked in so the whole program was royally screwed for the first season, then set back another year with stop-starting all summer 2021, with no real fan fare made to the wider audiences such as, Joe Public, the local Press and TV/Radio, and even the local and wider area Travel Agents and the Tour Operators.
Only TUI holidays took advantage and ended up using BACF for their 2 x weekly PMI Charters (a sell out for summers 2022/2023) and TUI also bought in more seats on the 3 x weekly Scheduled BA flights (of which 2 are now canned for next summer - just great!,
So now EZY pops in, well I never LOL, told you so LOL)

If you don't market your product properly then no one will buy it....
BA's flights from SOU was very much only for ''those in the know'' hence the flip, and then complete flop we now see....

I agree Operational costs are high for the summer weekend program of W flights in and out of LCY, however BACF did it for years from GLA EDI ABZ IOM HUY etc etc and now from JER GCI NCL and the IOM to many leisure destinations...all sells out - why?
because the Locals are ALL behind it .....

So, who's in charge of the clattering train at SOU and at BA?
Tis simply not enough to have a little Twitter X, and a Facebook account thinking that will fill a summer season of holiday jets , coz it won't!

I loved BA's flights from SOU but sure enough one by one, they all got canned, or were ''never rans''.

Honestly sometimes I feel I could run that place standing on my head, in my sleep.....Hey Ho.

Remember Skiathos and that debacle....

[SWBKCB]

Aren't the other BACF regional flights mainly sold through Tour Operators?

[rog747]

Aren't the other BACF regional flights mainly sold through Tour Operators?

Yes, correct they are,
hence my sentence above re no joined up thinking at BA and at SOU....(missed opportunity yet again)

[adfly]

Things have changed since those slots were applied for - are LM likely to launch a route now to an EZY base?
I can see how Loganair's frustration at the easyJet competition on the Glasgow route may undermine their motivation to expand further at SOU. However as much as I've seen some people say it, I would be very surprised is easyJet were interested in operating MAN-SOU. They seem to stay away from most short overland domestic routes - i.e. LGW-MAN. I also suspect there is a fair bit less leisure traffic than there is heading up to Scotland, which must make the route less appealing operated with anything less than a schedule allowing a day return.

[SWBKCB]

I can see how Loganair's frustration at the easyJet competition on the Glasgow route may undermine their motivation to expand further at SOU. However as much as I've seen some people say it, I would be very surprised is easyJet were interested in operating MAN-SOU. They seem to stay away from most short overland domestic routes - i.e. LGW-MAN. I also suspect there is a fair bit less leisure traffic than there is heading up to Scotland, which must make the route less appealing operated with anything less than a schedule allowing a day return.

Would you gamble your money on launching a service that may well get jumped on?!

[SouthernAlliance]

Would you gamble your money on launching a service that may get well get jumped on?!

Incredible to think this route was the airports biggest pre Covid of over 200k annually!

[rog747]

TBH I think EZY could make a go of the MAN if it was timed right - Folk hate the trains, it's a half days drive and the business locally and cruises are picking up

[RW20]

Incredible to think this route was the airports biggest pre Covid of over 200k annually!
Then with this in mind ,why is still not served?
Or is there more to.it then this?

[SouthernAlliance]

Then with this in mind ,why is still not served?
Or is there more to.it then this?

No idea, just stating a fact

[adfly]

TBH I think EZY could make a go of the MAN if it was timed right - Folk hate the trains, it's a half days drive and the business locally and cruises are picking up
But are EZY really going to sacrifice 2x daily prime slots at MAN to operate an SOU service when they could be used for higher demand/yield flights elsewhere (for an A319/20 sized aircraft)? Happy to be proven wrong but I personally really can't see it happening. In terms of your point regarding the demand for SOU-MAN I agree, that train 'service' is truly awful but I see it being more likely one served on a regional aircraft.

One thing Loganair could also have in their favour is they have a few partnerships with long haul airlines, so there is potential to capture a little connecting traffic as well, rather like Flybe used to (but at a much smaller scale).

[rog747]

Then with this in mind ,why is still not served?
Or is there more to.it then this?

Well, Flybe went, Covid came, everyone stayed in on their fat arses and did not work in the office or go to any Business meetings, so that sort of travel for work had all faded away...
Only now I do see things picking up again whereby we could see MAN again from SOU, and I think EZY may well have a go if they time it 'proper' lol.

[rog747]

But are EZY really going to sacrifice 2x daily prime slots at MAN to operate an SOU service when they could be used for higher demand/yield flights elsewhere (for an A319/20 sized aircraft)? Happy to be proven wrong but I personally really can't see it happening. In terms of your point regarding the demand for SOU-MAN I agree, that train 'service' is truly awful but I see it being more likely one served on a regional aircraft.


Indeed, but Demand and Yield are 2 differing beasts.

You can fill any old plane with seats at £19 (186 of them if you fancy, but do you make any money ? versus the Operational costs etc v.v when flying a quick SOU and back, or a 10-11 hour day to TFS or RHO and back on just one rotation...(and add in the 'seasonal' factors too, whereas MAN was, and could be again year round)

Sorry Darlings, but this is way ABOVE my pay grade on here, but I am sure you know what I mean, and get the picture.

[SouthernAlliance]

Summer season from MAN must be tempting for any prospective airline what with the numerous daily cruise departures. I cruised recently and the amount of passengers that had flown in from BHD to embark the ship so you would imagine some demand also coming from the north west.

[SotonFlightpath]

Summer season from MAN must be tempting for any prospective airline what with the numerous daily cruise departures. I cruised recently and the amount of passengers that had flown in from BHD to embark the ship so you would imagine some demand also coming from the north west.

When I flew in from Dublin, around 75% of the passengers on my flight were destined for the Queen Mary 2.

[davidjohnson6]

If the cruise market is the main rationale for a SOU-MAN route... then would it be better served with specific charter flights instead of a 2x daily scheduled route ? Or maybe something like what TUI are doing between Gatwick/Manchester and Frankfurt - namely scheduled flights at high fares on a small number of dates which coincide with river cruise start/end dates and which are offered at discount prices to cruise customers ?

[SotonFlightpath]

If the cruise market is the main rationale for a SOU-MAN route... then would it be better served with specific charter flights instead of a 2x daily scheduled route ? Or maybe something like what TUI are doing between Gatwick/Manchester and Frankfurt - namely scheduled flights at high fares on a small number of dates which coincide with river cruise start/end dates and which are offered at discount prices to cruise customers ?

I have seen various cruise charters at Southampton over the years, including KLM EMB190s, TUI and Jet2 Boeing 757s, Martinair Boeing 737s amongst others, so special flights for cruise passengers have been used in the past. At the height of the summer on some Fridays or Saturdays, the number of people transferring to and from ships when five or six are in Southampton at the same time is enormous, with around 15,000 embarking and another 15,000 disembarking and many of the domestic flights to and from Southampton on those occasions are sold-out and potentially could be several times over.

[RW20]

I have seen various cruise charters at Southampton over the years, including KLM EMB190s, TUI and Jet2 Boeing 757s, Martinair Boeing 737s amongst others, so special flights for cruise passengers have been used in the past. At the height of the summer on some Fridays or Saturdays, the number of people transferring to and from ships when five or six are in Southampton at the same time is enormous, with around 15,000 embarking and another 15,000 disembarking and many of the domestic flights to and from Southampton on those occasions are sold-out and potentially could be several times over.
So with a little thought and planning there could have been and should be more flights tied in with cruise charters dates.

[SKOJB]

So with a little thought and planning there could have been and should be more flights tied in with cruise charters dates.

yes but not at LM fares unfortunately. BE captured this market with cheap(ish) ticket prices combined with frequency. In saying that I do think someone like easyjet could be the answer on a daily service down to the south coast with again reasonable fares and added seat capacity

[Saabdriver1]

yes but not at LM fares unfortunately. BE captured this market with cheap(ish) ticket prices combined with frequency.

Think you might have gotten it the wrong way around. There are a lot of cruise pax on GLA/EDI/NCL to SOU at weekends to the point where the ATR is used on EDI-SOU at weekends simply for baggage volume. BE carried very little of this in the end as the cruise lines used to buy blocks of seats for their customers on them but lost that business through poor reliability - cancellations and losing too many bags, apparently.

[planedrive]

The S24 slot report still shows that Loganair are planning a MAN-SOU 2x daily. Hopefully this will be announced soon.

[RW20]

The S24 slot report still shows that Loganair are planning a MAN-SOU 2x daily. Hopefully this will be announced soon.
If so it needs to be a ATR !

[Saabdriver1]

The 145 doesn't do too badly for baggage. Max I can recall is 768kgs for 47 pax which is a pretty high average. The ATR is more flexible for loading volume but probably not wildly different in capacity. As for MAN-SOU, who knows. I'm sure someone does!

[Sotonsean]

Regarding the significance of the Port of Southampton and its relevance to a direct air link from Manchester.

The Port of Southampton is northern Europe's busiest cruise port, and it's also the second busiest cruise turnaround port in Europe after Barcelona. The Port of Southampton is the world's seventh busiest cruise turnaround port.

A cruise turnaround is when a cruise starts and finishes at the port with passengers disembarking and embarking.

The Port of Southampton will have received up to 526 cruise ship calls by the years end 31 December 2023.

The Port of Southampton is expected to have received 2.2 million cruise passengers by years end 31 December 2023.

The Port of Southampton received 1.8 million cruise passengers in 2022.

The Port of Southampton previous record was set in 2018 with 2 million cruise passengers.

The Port of Southampton is expected to receive up to 538 cruise ship calls in 2024 with an estimated 2.3 million cruise passengers.

The Port of Southampton is a major cruise turnaround port serving both domestic and international markets.

The cruise industry at the Port of Southampton is year round. In February 2023, for the first time in the port's history, it received 18 cruise calls with two occasions when up to three vessels were in port together.

The Port of Southampton receives calls from all of the world's major cruise operators. Some of the world's largest cruise ships use the the Port of Southampton.

The Port of Southampton has upto 18 cruise ships based there during the peak summer season along with several others using the port either as a turnaround or a cruise call.

The Port of Southampton has five modern cruise terminals. The cruise terminals handle up to five cruise ships, and combined passenger movements can be up to 36,000 during busy turnaround days with those disembarking and embarking, including thousands of pieces of baggage This doesn't unclude the many thousands of crew also using the Port.

The Port of Southampton busiest days during peak season are Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. The port's five cruise terminals often handle up to 15 cruise ships during the busy weekend period.

The Port of Southampton also receives up to 75 cruise ship calls per year from overseas operators, with mostly Dutch and German passengers, as a port of call, with many of those taking onshore excursions.

The Port of Southampton is ideally situated with excellent transport links by road. rail, air, and sea.

Now, something different.

An example.

Prior to the collapse of Flybe, 15% of the passengers arriving from Manchester took the direct flight to Southampton. Many of those passengers also stayed overnight in Southampton prior to joining their cruise.

An example

Prior to the collapse of Flybe, there was, on average, one coach per ship to and from Manchester to the Port of Southampton. Summer 2023 saw up to FIVE coaches or more per ship on some occasions operating to and from Manchester to the Port of Southampton.

Some cruise companies offer a shuttle bus service between the cruise terminals and Southampton Airport. Since the collapse of Flybe, this service is only offered on busy cruise days and not by every cruise company.

Flybe previously offered an excellent schedule between Manchester and Southampton, and it was perfectly timed for passengers connecting to the Port of Southampton to join their cruise. The lack of a direct air link between Manchester and Southampton has had an impact on those passengers who prefer the option of air rather than a very long coach transfer.

Although the majority of UK passengers drive with their own vehicle to the Port of Southampton coach, rail and air play a major role. BHD, EDI, GLA, and NCL also witness a large number of passengers using the flights to connect to their cruise from the Port of Southampton.

The Port of Southampton has coach transfers direct to the port's cruise terminals from all over the UK, including Birmingham, Bristol, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Norwich, several other pick up points including both East and West Midlands. The coach transfers are operating on behalf of the cruise companies.

The amount of coach transfers direct from the Port of Southampton to LHR often far exceeds the amount of domestic connections as listed above as many of those are multi drop. The LHR coach transfers often have passengers connecting with the British Airways flights to Manchester.

Don't underestimate the importance of the cruise business at the Port of Southampton and also the relevance of a direct air link from Manchester to Southampton Airport.

I can assure everyone reading this post that there is definitely a demand for a resumption of a direct air link between Manchester and Southampton. (I hear it a lot).

I know that Eastern Airways previously reconnected a link between Southampton and Manchester, but the route was not reliable, and the prices were extortionate. Cruise passengers were not going to put their trust and money with Eastern Airways in getting them to Southampton join their cruise.

The route is not a failure, and it absolutely astonishes me that it remains unserved. Although it used to be a popular route with Flybe, not everyone using it was on business. A Southampton to Manchester route caters to different and large markets, for business, leisure, and also for visiting friends and family. I used to use the route fairly often and found it far more convenient than driving and, without a doubt, far more convenient and relaxing than the rail connection.

Some have suggested dedicated air charters to Southampton. This is not an option. Operating weekly air charters to the likes of Barbados, Malta, Palma, etc, for passengers joining their cruise is a lot different than operating similar air charters to Southampton. A perfectly timed schedule is what is needed with preferably up to two or three or even four daily flights.

So, Loganair, please can you announce a resumption of a link between Manchester and Southampton in 2024. I personally don't believe in Christmas, but if I can just ask for one thing, I'd really appreciate it 👍

If by any chance that know one from Loganair reads the above well, the request then goes to easyJet.

[Retired LAE]

Hear Hear Sotondean. I have a friend who is a coach driver in North West. Pre-COVID he said his company laid on 6 cruise passenger coach trips each week - currently its 17!

[willy wombat]

The thing is, Loganair doesn’t have a base at SOU and I don’t think it has a base at MAN so how would it best operate a SOUMAN route? Would you want to set up a new base at either SOU or MAN only to have EZY jump on you? I remember sitting next to COW at a lunch when she was running Flybe and remarking that she had a very complex and disjointed operation with a route network that looked like a (drunken) spider’s web and bases all over the place. I’ve always been a proponent of the KISS approach to airline management. We will see if LM decide the SOUMAN route is worth the effort and risk. If I was them I’d only do it if it could tie in with other things at one, or both, ends of the route.

[planedrive]

The thing is, Loganair doesn’t have a base at SOU and I don’t think it has a base at MAN so how would it best operate a SOUMAN route? Would you want to set up a new base at either SOU or MAN only to have EZY jump on you? I remember sitting next to COW at a lunch when she was running Flybe and remarking that she had a very complex and disjointed operation with a route network that looked like a (drunken) spider’s web and bases all over the place. I’ve always been a proponent of the KISS approach to airline management. We will see if LM decide the SOUMAN route is worth the effort and risk. If I was them I’d only do it if it could tie in with other things at one, or both, ends of the route.

Loganair already serve MAN-NQY of which neither are bases so it's not inconceivable. Also, to have a based aircraft doesn't necessarily require based crew. Crew could night stop to operate on a trip pattern from one of their other bases. The positives I see that are both SOU and MAN have significant LM operations already, so it shouldn't be too tricky to add in the flight as a night stop or a triangle route (Ie: ABZ-SOU-MAN-ABZ). The difficulty with that would be getting the correct timings to make the flight viable.

[cavokblues]

People always say Eastern were extortionate between Manchester and Southampton. But so are the trains and they take considerably longer. The prices on any flight between Manchester and Southampton aren't going to be £80 anymore for something with multiple daily frequencies. There's a reason Flybe hardly ever made any money.

People need to expect to pay a price that reflects the considerable time saving on the train and makes it viable to operate.

Operating the route via a W pattern or nightstopping for LM makes it more expensive and potentially operationally tricky if something goes wrong. And if LM are miffed with the airport at the moment I can see why they might be holding back.

[davidjohnson6]

I'd guess that many of the pax travelling before or after a cruise have plenty of time - the important thing is being (almost) 100% certain of travel and not being cancelled for any reason. After a werk's cruise, people are not in any great hurry. Furthermore, on days when there are no cruises arriving or leaving Southampton, I'm guessing demand will be low or uni-directional. Some days feast, other days famine.

I'm not convinced that a 2x daily high-cost-per-passenger E145 is really what a SOU-MAN route needs. On some days that will be nowhere near enough capacity, while on other days it will be far too much. I'm thinking something closer to a 10+ year old A320 which can be flown just on the specific days to tie in with cruises.

[SKOJB]

I'd guess that many of the pax travelling before or after a cruise have plenty of time - the important thing is being (almost) 100% certain of travel and not being cancelled for any reason. After a werk's cruise, people are not in any great hurry. Furthermore, on days when there are no cruises arriving or leaving Southampton, I'm guessing demand will be low or uni-directional. Some days feast, other days famine.

I'm not convinced that a 2x daily high-cost-per-passenger E145 is really what a SOU-MAN route needs. On some days that will be nowhere near enough capacity, while on other days it will be far too much. I'm thinking something closer to a 10+ year old A320 which can be flown just on the specific days to tie in with cruises.

A daily 156/186 Airbus would probably do the job, however if what we are hearing is correct and the ezy BFS/GLA routes are doing very well, it’s not inconceivable that domestics may increase to double daily for summer and to capture the significant cruise market.

[Accura]

The amount of coach transfers direct from the Port of Southampton to LHR often far exceeds the amount of domestic connections as listed above as many of those are multi drop. The LHR coach transfers often have passengers connecting with the British Airways flights to Manchester.

Don't underestimate the importance of the cruise business at the Port of Southampton and also the relevance of a direct air link from Manchester to Southampton Airport.

I can assure everyone reading this post that there is definitely a demand for a resumption of a direct air link between Manchester and Southampton. (I hear it a lot).

I know that Eastern Airways previously reconnected a link between Southampton and Manchester, but the route was not reliable, and the prices were extortionate. Cruise passengers were not going to put their trust and money with Eastern Airways in getting them to Southampton join their cruise.

The route is not a failure, and it absolutely astonishes me that it remains unserved. Although it used to be a popular route with Flybe, not everyone using it was on business. A Southampton to Manchester route caters to different and large markets, for business, leisure, and also for visiting friends and family. I used to use the route fairly often and found it far more convenient than driving and, without a doubt, far more convenient and relaxing than the rail connection.

Some have suggested dedicated air charters to Southampton. This is not an option. Operating weekly air charters to the likes of Barbados, Malta, Palma, etc, for passengers joining their cruise is a lot different than operating similar air charters to Southampton. A perfectly timed schedule is what is needed with preferably up to two or three or even four daily flights.

So, Loganair, please can you announce a resumption of a link between Manchester and Southampton in 2024. I personally don't believe in Christmas, but if I can just ask for one thing, I'd really appreciate it 👍

If by any chance that know one from Loganair reads the above well, the request then goes to easyJet.

Really interesting and insightful post. I was a regular user of the MAN-SOU service (usually two return trips per month) before Eastern axed the route in May. As we were getting nearer to the peak cruise season in the summer, the service was getting busier and busier. Sadly Eastern decided to axe it and instead set up the Paris Orly route, so we'll never know how well it would have performed over the summer, in arguably in the first year since Covid that the cruising sector has near fully recovered. Despite Eastern's poor track record (I experienced some crazy delays - including one slightly surreal one where we were the delayed by 5 hours, to the point where we the very last departure of the day out of Manchester!) it was still a very useful service, even at once per day - still much easier than getting the train. And cheaper. The fares that Eastern charged (usually ranging from £50-£90) for a one way trip were still much cheaper than the train.

I absolutely despair at getting the train now. It takes half the day, and is absolutely extortionate. This morning I've booked a work trip to the south coast for 3 days in a couple of weeks - the train has cost £240 return and takes over 5 hours. I very nearly travelled by air via Belfast! It was pretty much as quick and half the price. Only issue was a tight layover in Belfast. I am going to need to be down on the south coast more next year, so I'm praying that Loganair pulls a rabbit out of the hat.

[Albert Hall]

That's quite a jump from two flights a week at the moment up to two flights a day! From what I can see, the easyJet loads aren't bad but they're not exactly beating passengers away with a sharp stick - I'd say running at about 60-65% load factor on average on both routes. The other thing to consider is that fares aren't really increasing much towards the day of departure so average yields won't be great. It's not a disaster zone but I can't see that it's really as marvellous as some are making out.

LM were nightstopping a 145 in Southampton over the summer for an early morning northbound to Edinburgh so I guess there's no reason they couldn't do the same but fly to Manchester in the morning instead - if they chose to. The real question is, will they? To be remotely competitive with the train service, the route needs a decent frequency of service. There are some very busy days in the Port of Southampton - predominantly Saturdays and Sundays - but also some very dead days. Take Wednesdays next year. Two Fred Olsen cruise ships in on Wednesday 17 April but nothing on any other Wednesday in April. How do you plan an airline schedule to service that? [Hint: you don't. You fly frequently and then coincide with any sailings no matter what length.]

[LGS6753]

The LCC business model is predicated on reaching very high load factors across the network soon after starting a route. Fluctuating demand on an already thin route is unlikely to merit them allocating an aircraft when better opportunities are available.

[inOban]

Sotonsean states that the coaches are operated on behalf of the cruise companies. Any flights would presumably be the same - it may be that EZY flights from BFS and GLA are largely prebooked in the same way.

For MAN the advantages of the coaches - the ability of the coach to pick up at various places en route, and avoid a separate coach from SOU to the cruise terminal - may outweigh the faster flight.

What would be interesting would be flights bringing cruise passengers from the continent but Brexit may have ruined that.