Southampton-3

[willy wombat]

Nope, Loganair also needs the leisure market and must offer higher fares to make multiple daily frequencies work on a smaller aircraft. They will likely lose enough volume to easyJet to tip the operation into the red and that will be the end of that. This isn't a market that's about to explode in volume IMHO.

Someone actually knew what he/she was talking about.

[SWBKCB]

If they are filling planes then why stop?

Are they filling planes, and at what price? Maybe a chance for them to stick their prices up? :E

[RW20]

So that's one flight per day compared to three or four. Terrible for connectivity- so many business travellers used those Loganair SOU-GLA flights (including myself).
I'm seeing this as a blow for SOU and the region. That's not me being anti-SOU or negative, but as someone who lives locally and travels a lot I'll really miss the option of business-friendly flights from SOU to GLA and I think others will too.
Its a blow that was predicted ,one flight a day from Easy will not cut it with business travellers . What happens if Easy pull out?SOU have bent over backwards to attract Easy in ,Its time for more Easy routes to prove it was right.

[GayFriendly]

I think the days of multi times daily regional flying in the UK are mostly over. Like SOU, BHX once boasted multiple daily, business friendly frequencies with BE: 8 a day to GLA, EDI, twice daily MXP, BER, 4 times daily to DUS, daily LYS.....these ex BE routes are now all served (except DUS) by EZY but at very much reduced frequency, and in the case if GLA and EDI, sometimes just a flight a day! It's tough to fill an A320 on a daily basis on such routes.

DUS is operated by EW at twice daily, the frequency they operated alongside BE - from 6 flights a day Mon-Fri to 2 - another good example of an Airbus operator at BHX matching frequency to demand

If EZY do come to SOU with a base, you will for sure get new routes but at a 2 or 3 times weekly service. It's either that or no service at all

The big difference with BHX of course is that we have Jet2, FR and TUI who, with EZY now added into the mix, provide a decent frequency of service combined between them on key routes. SOU won't have this with just EZY and am sure nobody wants the all eggs in one basket scenario at SOU again.....but without EZY, what for SOU?

[SouthernAlliance]

The airport are certainly ramping up easyJet coverage across their SM platforms, not before time!

[VickersVicount]

Wonder if theres an AGS GLA-SOU-EZY love triangle?

[LTNman]

What happened at Southend regarding EasyJet domestic services from that airport is a concern despite being regarded as having good loads at the time.

[Albert Hall]

It is a huge concern but now the worry expressed by many (and I was amongst them) has materialised, the airport has no choice but to pursue easyJet to the far ends of the earth for growth on Glasgow. And given that they own both airports, they should be placed to really make this happen.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Someone actually knew what he/she was talking about.
I'd rather have been wrong but all the eggs are goin' in the orange basket who now have SOU by the balls.

[darren1]

When the orange bubble bursts the airport will be left with nothing.

[Sotonsean]

When the orange bubble bursts the airport will be left with nothing.

Easyjet operate 6 routes out of 20 destinations that are currently served from SOU.

Easyjet will soon be the only airline operating from GLA to SOU.

Easyjet for summer 2024 only compete on Faro and Palma from SOU and to a certain extent with BFS.

Easyjet are one of 9 airlines currently serving SOU.

Easyjet has been successfully operating since it was founded in 1995.

There is the demand from SOU to GLA as well as EDI.

In what way are you describing "When the orange bubble bursts"?

Are you describing the collapse of easyjet itself or if the airline ceased operations at SOU.

Either way you're statement is ridiculous.

If by any chance easyjet abandons SOU 'which they won't btw' then Loganair in my opinion would instantly reinstate GLA to SOU.

SOU needs more airlines and routes but at this present time, easyjet are not a huge player at the airport.

The 'bubble burst' at SOU with the collapse of Flybe 'Mark 1'. But that's a completely different scenario.

[stewyb]

Easyjet operate 6 routes out of 20 destinations that are currently served from SOU.

Easyjet will soon be the only airline operating from GLA to SOU.

Easyjet for summer 2024 only compete on Faro and Palma from SOU and to a certain extent with BFS.

Easyjet are one of 9 airlines currently serving SOU.

Easyjet has been successfully operating since it was founded in 1995.

There is the demand from SOU to GLA as well as EDI.

In what way are you describing "When the orange bubble bursts"?

Are you describing the collapse of easyjet itself or if the airline ceased operations at SOU.

Either way you're statement is ridiculous.

If by any chance easyjet abandons SOU 'which they won't btw' then Loganair in my opinion would instantly reinstate GLA to SOU.

SOU needs more airlines and routes but at this present time, easyjet are not a huge player at the airport.

The 'bubble burst' at SOU with the collapse of Flybe 'Mark 1'. But that's a completely different scenario.

Well said. On this thread for years people have been crying out/demanding a low cost carrier come in to stimulate proper growth, now it looks like this is starting to materialise and the result is we have questions around eggs in one basket again whilst the bubble will undoubtedly burst. What on earth are the airport and its owners supposed to do for the best when they have the uk’s largest airline operating an Airbus fleet showing interest?

[Albert Hall]

Take a leaf out of Bristol’s management book perhaps where they seem to manage and grow the network without squabbles of the Glasgow-Southampton nature and still keep easyJet happy?

Travel Weekly also reporting cuts on EDI from four to three a day and NCL from 15 to 13 a week.

[SWBKCB]

The point about the bubble bursting is that EZY currently have little invested in SOU, and can move away as quickly as they arrived - can they make more money elsewhere than they can at SOU? That is what LM have decided. If you read their statement, it is all about resilience in their network. Suggesting they would leap back if EZY pulled off GLA is optimistic. What with? Also, what are the odds of a LM MAN service now?

[MidlandsWanderer]

Also, what are the odds of a LM MAN service now?

About the same as they were before. Neither airport is a base for them so they either have to invest in a new base or operate a range of W flights adding operational risk to an already stretched schedule. The added complication is that MAN airport don't want a domestic carrier based at their airport as they have higher aspirations than that (according to them).

[laviation]

The added complication is that MAN airport don't want a domestic carrier based at their airport as they have higher aspirations than that (according to them).

Obvious sly dig aside (convenient geographical hint in your name) MAN literally has based domestic carriers !

[tallaonejuliet]

Obvious sly dig aside (convenient geographical hint in your name) MAN literally has based domestic carriers !

Not many domestic based carriers left that would be naive enough to commit corporate suicide going up against EasyJet.
Unfortunately it's the free market economy, LM will eventually retreat from SOU should the orange expansion prove successful, SI will be looking behind their shoulders given the volume of flights they provide at SOU.

[Hial Flyer]

LM were becoming a nightmare on the route in the last year, even before EZY turned up. Used the GLA route often and out of the last 6 return flights only one was less than 2 hours late, one was over 3. All due to tech E145. It was becoming a joke. It wasnt reliable. On one occasion the LM flight landed at SOU 30 mins before the EZY, yet the EZY was away back to GLA long before the LM as the E145 required an air start.
The E145 was the wrong aircraft for the route, they should have used their ATR72,. More seats and could have competed better with EZY on price. I think the pulling of the route is more to do with whats going on with LM themselves rather then the route itself. Pilots are jumping ship at an alarming rate.

[Diff Tail Shim]

LM were becoming a nightmare on the route in the last year, even before EZY turned up. Used the GLA route often and out of the last 6 return flights only one was less than 2 hours late, one was over 3. All due to tech E145. It was becoming a joke. It wasnt reliable. On one occasion the LM flight landed at SOU 30 mins before the EZY, yet the EZY was away back to GLA long before the LM as the E145 required an air start.
The E145 was the wrong aircraft for the route, they should have used their ATR72,. More seats and could have competed better with EZY on price. I think the pulling of the route is more to do with whats going on with LM themselves rather then the route itself. Pilots are jumping ship at an alarming rate. ATRs are as equally unreliable. Horrible things. Your last statement is easy to believe. The big players are hoovering pilots from LM because their pay is way better. Economics.

[darren1]

Easyjet operate 6 routes out of 20 destinations that are currently served from SOU.

Easyjet will soon be the only airline operating from GLA to SOU.

Easyjet for summer 2024 only compete on Faro and Palma from SOU and to a certain extent with BFS.

Easyjet are one of 9 airlines currently serving SOU.

Easyjet has been successfully operating since it was founded in 1995.

There is the demand from SOU to GLA as well as EDI.

In what way are you describing "When the orange bubble bursts"?

Are you describing the collapse of easyjet itself or if the airline ceased operations at SOU.

Either way you're statement is ridiculous.

If by any chance easyjet abandons SOU 'which they won't btw' then Loganair in my opinion would instantly reinstate GLA to SOU.

SOU needs more airlines and routes but at this present time, easyjet are not a huge player at the airport.

The 'bubble burst' at SOU with the collapse of Flybe 'Mark 1'. But that's a completely different scenario.


Nothing ridiculous dear. If SOU goes orange and current airlines jump ship, problems lie ahead if yields don't stack for U2. They will go where the money is. Yes U2 could find a niche and work wonders, but all the armchair CEOs on here have to remember EI, LM and KL could all easily go for good. Taking T3 out of the equation as they are just awful. A daily JER fro U2 could easily wipe out SI. Be careful what you wish for.

[Sotonsean]

Nothing ridiculous dear. If SOU goes orange and current airlines jump ship, problems lie ahead if yields don't stack for U2. They will go where the money is. Yes U2 could find a niche and work wonders, but all the armchair CEOs on here have to remember EI, LM and KL could all easily go for good. Taking T3 out of the equation as they are just awful. A daily JER fro U2 could easily wipe out SI. Be careful what you wish for.

Just to inform you "dear" but I'm not personally wishing for anything. I would prefer to keep the incumbents and allow them to expand. I would prefer it if SOU could attract further airlines and routes without having to rely on easyjet.

Easyjet expansion is obviously very welcome at SOU but I don't want it to be detrimental to existing operators. Loganair pulling GLA-SOU is the first obvious sign of this.

I personally don't fly with easyjet so it doesn't affect me one way or another. All I want to see is my local airport prosper. The airport serving the region to destinations that include both sun and city breaks.

Southampton Airport is totally underutilised and in my opinion totally underappreciated. It has so much potential that is not taken advantage of.

[Asturias56]

"if SOU could attract further airlines and routes without having to rely on easyjet."

Beggars can't be choosers - and the only airlines likely to expand are LCO's - if it wasn't Easy who would you like to see? The mainline airlines aren't interested in serving small airports

[SouthernAlliance]

"if SOU could attract further airlines and routes without having to rely on easyjet."

Beggars can't be choosers - and the only airlines likely to expand are LCO's - if it wasn't Easy who would you like to see? The mainline airlines aren't interested in serving small airports

As you say, the likelihood of attracting other airlines nowadays is becoming limited. The airport may see the new Lufthansa City set up in the future with Frankfurt but cannot think of many other mainlines that might be interested, low cost perhaps Wizz with a route or two. SOU doesn’t have too much choice but to throw everything at easyJet which could become a lucrative partnership (could!). One thing is pretty certain however, I don’t see LM or BA being at the airport in 12/18 months time if the orange relationship blossoms. Not ideal to loose airlines but it may be the only way for SOU to build growth, a risky game to be played out in the future quite possibly.

[Rivet Joint]

The usual suspects having a field day I see. I have repeatedly posted stats that prove the Belfast city route hasn’t been affected by Easy’s new route to the other Belfast airport. In fact the city route grew. Logan are clearly going through a difficult patch with losing pilots and availability of ATR parts, new planes. Also the sale of the business hanging over their heads. The CEO that left recently could obviously see what was on the horizon. None of this has anything to do with SOU or Easy. The fact they still operate 145s when no other big operator in Europe does was always a red flag.

Most importantly, let’s approach this factually. The loss of Logan on the Glasgow route means only a loss of 147 passengers. Hardly the end of the world. I still feel like there is a place for Logan operating one super early and one late night flight to cater for people after a full day either end. But I also can see Easy doing two daily flights. Perhaps a based aircraft could fly down from Glasgow in the morning do a few routes from SOU and then fly back up to Glasgow in the evening.

[SWBKCB]

None of this has anything to do with SOU or Easy.

You're right - it's just coincidence that the route LM dropped from SOU is the one EZY are competing on.

Perhaps a based aircraft could fly down from Glasgow in the morning do a few routes from SOU and then fly back up to Glasgow in the evening.

How do you crew this? Is it a model EZY operate elsewhere?

[SouthernAlliance]

You're right - it's just coincidence that the route LM dropped from SOU is the one EZY are competing on.


How do you crew this? Is it a model EZY operate elsewhere?

AMS based plane operates morning to SEN, then ALC return followed by evening back to AMS. Guess SOU could do similar with GLA crew?

[Albert Hall]

If you are short of pilots and need to cut back your schedule, you won't cut back on your most profitable routes. You'll take the worst performers and ditch those. The fact that GLA-SOU has been ditched says everything about the performance of the route since easyJet started on it.

And I would be concerned about this. "It's only 147 passengers" - yes, those who needed the business schedule Loganair offered but easyJet does not provide. You do not want to be losing that type of passenger from SOU and ending up with them using LHR instead. Not all passengers are equal. It's a bad day for the airport, for sure.

[SKOJB]

If you are short of pilots and need to cut back your schedule, you won't cut back on your most profitable routes. You'll take the worst performers and ditch those. The fact that GLA-SOU has been ditched says everything about the performance of the route since easyJet started on it.

And I would be concerned about this. "It's only 147 passengers" - yes, those who needed the business schedule Loganair offered but easyJet does not provide. You do not want to be losing that type of passenger from SOU and ending up with them using LHR instead. Not all passengers are equal. It's a bad day for the airport, for sure.

Not sure a small number of business travellers for GLA moving to LHR will bother the airport if easyjet do indeed set up a base. It’s a game of risk and reward and it’s clear to see which side the airport is swaying towards. Never be surprised to see EDI go orange next.

[SotonFlightpath]

If you are short of pilots and need to cut back your schedule, you won't cut back on your most profitable routes. You'll take the worst performers and ditch those. The fact that GLA-SOU has been ditched says everything about the performance of the route since easyJet started on it.

And I would be concerned about this. "It's only 147 passengers" - yes, those who needed the business schedule Loganair offered but easyJet does not provide. You do not want to be losing that type of passenger from SOU and ending up with them using LHR instead. Not all passengers are equal. It's a bad day for the airport, for sure.

That's very true. I appreciate that things have changed and fewer people travel on business, but in the days when I flew very regularly for business as a self-employed person it was pretty much essential that the return trip could be made in a day. I regularly used SOU for Manchester, Glasgow, Newcastle and Dublin and the schedules made this possible. I also used LHR for Amsterdam, Oslo, Dusseldorf, Hamburg and Athens and these were also out and back the same day. Sadly the lack of a super early out and late evening return precluded using Southampton for Amsterdam.

Even with the lower passenger numbers now, Southampton will lose business traffic if the schedules are not flexible.

[stewyb]

Good interview shown with AGS at Routes Europe recently. Mentioned that SOU was the most exciting project of all 3 of their airports, has huge potential and are looking to increase pax numbers with much more leisure. EasyJet was discussed as expanding at the airport and general growth would ‘snowball’ over the next few years, promising!

[The Nutts Mutts]

It's not "only 147 passengers" though, is it? It's almost 300 per day if you count the return legs too.
9000 a month, 108000 a year. That's a lot less people paying for car parking, food & drinks, magazines, lounges etc. That'll hit the airport's bottom line.
There's also the loss of landing fees, fuel uplift and passenger fees. Losing an established operator on a trunk route is never a good thing.
Airports exist as an economic driver for the wider region, and the Southampton region has had business and commuter friendly flights to Scotland's largest and most industrial city for decades. After the 10th of May it won't have anymore, and that's an economic loss to the area.

[SouthernAlliance]

It's not "only 147 passengers" though, is it? It's almost 300 per day if you count the return legs too.
9000 a month, 108000 a year. That's a lot less people paying for car parking, food & drinks, magazines, lounges etc. That'll hit the airport's bottom line.
There's also the loss of landing fees, fuel uplift and passenger fees. Losing an established operator on a trunk route is never a good thing.
Airports exist as an economic driver for the wider region, and the Southampton region has had business and commuter friendly flights to Scotland's largest and most industrial city for decades. After the 10th of May it won't have anymore, and that's an economic loss to the area.

Er, it’s not though is it as from the start of May easyjet go daily so capacity is not lost!

[The Nutts Mutts]

It is a loss compared to LM remaining on the route and coexisting with easyJet which they had been until now.
And regardless of the passenger numbers, going from 3/4 flights per day to one is a net negative for the region's travellers, particularly business travellers, many of whom will use Heathrow instead.

[SotonFlightpath]

Er, it’s not though is it as from the start of May easyjet go daily so capacity is not lost!

Capacity may not be lost, but for those like me who need to be able to travel there and back in the day, it will entail an earlier start and an hour or more on the M3 to Heathrow.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Capacity may not be lost, but for those like me who need to be able to travel there and back in the day, it will entail an earlier start and an hour or more on the M3 to Heathrow.
Sorry to hear that.

[LTNman]

If nothing else it will make the departure board look even more sparse and will remove a whole category of passenger that seeks flight times that easyjet will not be offering, while attracting a new category of passenger that is happy with the easyjet offering, if the price is right, despite the inflexibility of the random flight programme.

There is also the question of incentives, if any, that SOU had to offer easyjet vs the charges LM were paying as the established airline. Did SOU management approach LM with a better deal to try and keep them or has LM got itself into a huff at being forced off the route so jeopardising its other routes? The danger for the airport is that if easyjet pull the route it is unlikely LM will return.

[Asturias56]

"The danger for the airport is that if easyjet pull the route it is unlikely LM will return"

Not so sure - if they were making money before EJ came then they KNOW they can make money if EJ leave - it might not be instant but LM have survived by being very focused on what works FOR THEM.

[Link Kilo]

Good interview shown with AGS at Routes Europe recently. Mentioned that SOU was the most exciting project of all 3 of their airports, has huge potential and are looking to increase pax numbers with much more leisure. EasyJet was discussed as expanding at the airport and general growth would ‘snowball’ over the next few years, promising!

Can you post a link to this please, it sounds like it would be interesting to see in its entirety.

[ATNotts]

If nothing else it will make the departure board look even more sparse and will remove a whole category of passenger that seeks flight times that easyjet will not be offering, while attracting a new category of passenger that is happy with the easyjet offering, if the price is right, despite the inflexibility of the random flight programme.

There is also the question of incentives, if any, that SOU had to offer easyjet vs the charges LM were paying as the established airline. Did SOU management approach LM with a better deal to try and keep them or has LM got itself into a huff at being forced off the route so jeopardising its other routes? The danger for the airport is that if easyjet pull the route it is unlikely LM will return.
What you describe on your first paragraph is pretty well what is happening at all UK airports excepting LHR and to a lesser extent LGW. Leisure is now dominant even at major regionals such as EDI, MAN, BHX and BRS, with business travel in steady decline, Covid and corporate "green" policies being largely to blame.

[Diff Tail Shim]

What you describe on your first paragraph is pretty well what is happening at all UK airports excepting LHR and to a lesser extent LGW. Leisure is now dominant even at major regionals such as EDI, MAN, BHX and BRS, with business travel in steady decline, Covid and corporate "green" policies being largely to blame.
Always was..

[stewyb]

Can you post a link to this please, it sounds like it would be interesting to see in its entirety.

Its on YouTube

[GeorgeNTravels]

Can you post a link to this please, it sounds like it would be interesting to see in its entirety.
Here you go, SOU talk starts just after the halfway point, it begins talking about GLA.

https://youtu.be/vXws3GuyMCQ?si=2xZSPXJ73i-ah-EU

[Irishshamrock]

So which destinations Should easyJet be adding?

High frequency regional is in decline the world over.

Emerald will be the next to make cut backs.

[Dropoffcharge]

Anyone have any info or updates on the refinancing of the 757m depts AGS currently have, I believe the payment maturity date is 18th June 24?

[RW20]

So which destinations Should easyJet be adding?

High frequency regional is in decline the world over.

Emerald will be the next to make cut backs.
If this happens where does it leave SOU ?
I'm afraid that the runway extension has been a damp squib, we are back to relying on one airline ,that is EASY,just like FLYbe pre covid.
There is no airlines coming through with new route,bar a 2x Caen service,the domestic routes are contracting at a alarming rate,we can't complete with BOH rapid expansion,how can the airport reach break even figures of 1.2 mill?
​​
​​

[Albert Hall]

There is a fixation with a certain passenger volume to break even. If the airport has 750,000 pax from eight airlines then it might be profitable depending on what those airlines are paying and the average spend of those passengers on car parking and other income streams. If the airport has 2 million pax from one airline, it might still be loss-making if the airline has a deal to pay very little and the average spend per passenger is low.

[Sharklet_321]

Exactly, and you can be sure easyJet won’t be paying fully published fees.

Another supposed ‘strength’ of SOU is actually its biggest weakness. SOU is double the size of the BOH catchment area, but that population includes a big swathe along the M3 corridor which includes greater south west London. Residents with the equidistant geography between SOU or LHR would naturally flow to LHR. It would be a very costly exercise to try to stop that flow which is facilitated by significant transport and infrastructure capacity. Therefore the ‘true’ catchment of SOU needs to be better understood by its owners. A similar issue can be seen when analysing GLA v EDI or CWL v BRS. CWL and GLA could be seen as ‘in decline’ versus their closest counterparts.

SOU has two options: focus on low cost airlines to try and disrupt that natural flow in its catchment area, or, to downsize so it focuses on higher frequency, regional flying which potentially could be more cash lucrative for existing infrastructure without the need to invest in larger facilities. The latter is possibly not sustainable however, so the answer is obvious.

[Sotonsean]

Exactly, and you can be sure easyJet won’t be paying fully published fees.

Another supposed ‘strength’ of SOU is actually its biggest weakness. SOU is double the size of the BOH catchment area, but that population includes a big swathe along the M3 corridor which includes greater south west London. Residents with the equidistant geography between SOU or LHR would naturally flow to LHR. It would be a very costly exercise to try to stop that flow which is facilitated by significant transport and infrastructure capacity. Therefore the ‘true’ catchment of SOU needs to be better understood by its owners. A similar issue can be seen when analysing GLA v EDI or CWL v BRS. CWL and GLA could be seen as ‘in decline’ versus their closest counterparts.

SOU has two options: focus on low cost airlines to try and disrupt that natural flow in its catchment area, or, to downsize so it focuses on higher frequency, regional flying which potentially could be more cash lucrative for existing infrastructure without the need to invest in larger facilities. The latter is possibly not sustainable however, so the answer is obvious.

Excellent post :ok:

[SWBKCB]

They aren't exclusive. The mistake will be to concentrate on one thing. Spread the risk and maximise income from as many sources as possible

[Asturias56]

"Residents with the equidistant geography between SOU or LHR would naturally flow to LHR."

Not totally sure about that - SOU has advantages IF they make the best of them - ease of transiting the airport is one, getting to the actual terminal is another. Not everyone likes a drive up the M3 and the trains don't go right to LHR

[DC3 Dave]

"Residents with the equidistant geography between SOU or LHR would naturally flow to LHR."

Not totally sure about that - SOU has advantages IF they make the best of them - ease of transiting the airport is one, getting to the actual terminal is another. Not everyone likes a drive up the M3 and the trains don't go right to LHR

Gosh! This is an epiphany moment. Quite right, accentuate the positive.

[Wycombe]

"Residents with the equidistant geography between SOU or LHR would naturally flow to LHR."

Don't agree either. I live in West Berks, about 40 miles from LHR and SOU. Back a few years ago when I was flying for work trips I always used SOU to go to places like JER, GCI, BHD and GLA. LHR (or LGW) for longer-haul stuff.

My SOU trips were nearly always daytrips aswell. SOU made that easy as, for example, at LHR it's just not possible to be driving out of the airport 10 minutes after getting off the aeroplane. I lament that many of these daytrip options now seem to be increasingly unavailable.

[Rivet Joint]

Some facts to clear up some confusion:

- A direct quote from the airport was that it cannot be profitable with the likes of Loganair serving regional routes. So it needs the scale of a low cost operator as a regional the size of Flybe is unlikely ever to happen again. So let’s all stop caring about bloody Loganair! They have been making hay whilst the sun-shined but are of no use to a profitable airport that want thousands using their shops, parking and facilities rather than a hundred or so. Please let this sink in as it’s direct from the airport and puts any debate of a low cost operator vs a regional to bed. It’s a low cost operator or nothing in today’s world.

- Frequency and the ability to do a day trip is a nice to have but I bet you can fly Easy to Glasgow, get a hotel for the night and a meal and still have paid less than a day return on Logan. Less frequency is only going to be an issue for a very small amount of people.

- It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Emerald as things stand are doing very well and are seeing growth. Having the Aer Lingus code share and brand gives them an edge. It’s the same reason why Easy could probably do AMS and KLM still stay with its world connections.

- The current rumours are that more routes will be added but from aircraft based elsewhere. Other bases have grown this way. You can still have a crew base in SOU but no aircraft based.

-Easy are now starting to rapidly add new aircraft so will now have capacity for growth.

[Albert Hall]

You can still have a crew base in SOU but no aircraft based.

If we're dealing in facts as you suggest, there's nowhere on the easyJet network where they do that. Any crew base has aircraft based there. It's ludicrous to suggest they might have Southampton-based crew but no Southampton-based aircraft.

They do nightstop away from base in a few locations - ABZ, INV, BHD and JER spring to mind for Gatwick - but that's about as far as it goes.

[SouthernAlliance]

Hopefully easyJet will add another couple of routes for this winter season.

[Asturias56]

"Gosh! This is an epiphany moment. Quite right, accentuate the positive."

I see SOU has a place - but not the millions of PAX a year that the fanclub think will use it. And I pointed out a few months back that their lack of advertising is a real issue - if people in Basingstoke don't realise there's an airport down the road how will they ever manage to keep it afloat?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The usual suspects having a field day I see. I have repeatedly posted stats that prove the Belfast city route hasn’t been affected by Easy’s new route to the other Belfast airport. In fact the city route grew. Logan are clearly going through a difficult patch with losing pilots and availability of ATR parts, new planes. Also the sale of the business hanging over their heads. The CEO that left recently could obviously see what was on the horizon. None of this has anything to do with SOU or Easy. The fact they still operate 145s when no other big operator in Europe does was always a red flag.

Most importantly, let’s approach this factually. The loss of Logan on the Glasgow route means only a loss of 147 passengers. Hardly the end of the world. I still feel like there is a place for Logan operating one super early and one late night flight to cater for people after a full day either end. But I also can see Easy doing two daily flights. Perhaps a based aircraft could fly down from Glasgow in the morning do a few routes from SOU and then fly back up to Glasgow in the evening.
This from the man who got his arse handed to him on the Loganair thread for an angry rant about he can't comprehend Loganair and they're doomed to failure for abandoning Southampton for "barren Scottish islands". What you're continually ignoring after having it spelled out to you, is SOU can have one of two things on a route.
1) High frequency, higher cost on a turboprop or an ERJ
2) High volume, low cost, poor frequency on an A320 series

With a SOU sized market, there's no room for both. No point raging at Loganair when they do exactly what they were expected to do to survive.

[adfly]

A break from the usual arguments/repeated posts/personal attacks:

Summary of passenger numbers & changes on all regular scheduled and charter routes for 2023, including % change on 2022.

UK

Aberdeen - 6,115 (+95%)
Alderney - 17,214 (+1%)
Belfast City - 79,810 (+32%)
Belfast International - 5,332 (New)
Edinburgh - 89,058 (+9%)
Glasgow - 87,044 (+16%)
Guernsey - 97,466 (+1%)
Jersey - 99,895 (+0%)
Manchester - 5,515 (-49%)
Newcastle - 46,908 (+20%)
Stornoway - 5,201 (New)

Total UK - 493,119

Republic of Ireland

Dublin - 76,300 (+150%)

France

Bergerac - 3,452 (-53%)
Chambery - 4,445 (+47%)
Limoges - 981 (-65%)
Paris Orly - 9,043 (New)

Total France - 17,921

Netherlands

Amsterdam - 86,015 (+63%)

Switzerland

Geneva - 17,934 (+92%)

Austria

Salzburg - 1,895 (+46%)

Spain

Alicante - 1,112 (-73%)
Palma - 16,239 (+27%)
Malaga - 3,868 (-48%)

Total Spain - 21,219

Portugal

Faro - 3,766 (-4%)


Total Overall - 754,931 (+20%, includes charters/one off flights/diversions etc)

[Ascupart]

Summary of passenger numbers & changes on all regular scheduled and charter routes for 2023, including % change on 2022...

What is the source of your data? The CAA table 12.3 (https://www.caa.co.uk/Documents/Download/10288/81d07410-dbcd-46e7-aacc-d0a5accf0d90/16429) gives slightly different numbers (not that it matters)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1929x1474/caa_3660bc9e283fdf84fe2f55b8d01e71c7cc7eeb57.png

[adfly]

What is the source of your data? The CAA table 12.3 (https://www.caa.co.uk/Documents/Download/10288/81d07410-dbcd-46e7-aacc-d0a5accf0d90/16429) gives slightly different numbers (not that it matters)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1929x1474/caa_3660bc9e283fdf84fe2f55b8d01e71c7cc7eeb57.png
The same tables in a different document has different numbers! There is presumably a counting detail difference between them. https://www.caa.co.uk/Documents/Download/10288/81d07410-dbcd-46e7-aacc-d0a5accf0d90/16429

[LTNman]

Some facts to clear up some confusion:

- The current rumours are that more routes will be added but from aircraft based elsewhere. Other bases have grown this way. You can still have a crew base in SOU but no aircraft based.

.

So how would that work without some non based flight crew day stopping at SOU while a SOU crew took over?

[Rivet Joint]

A break from the usual arguments/repeated posts/personal attacks:

Summary of passenger numbers & changes on all regular scheduled and charter routes for 2023, including % change on 2022.

UK

Aberdeen - 6,115 (+95%)
Alderney - 17,214 (+1%)
Belfast City - 79,810 (+32%)
Belfast International - 5,332 (New)
Edinburgh - 89,058 (+9%)
Glasgow - 87,044 (+16%)
Guernsey - 97,466 (+1%)
Jersey - 99,895 (+0%)
Manchester - 5,515 (-49%)
Newcastle - 46,908 (+20%)
Stornoway - 5,201 (New)

Total UK - 493,119

Republic of Ireland

Dublin - 76,300 (+150%)

France

Bergerac - 3,452 (-53%)
Chambery - 4,445 (+47%)
Limoges - 981 (-65%)
Paris Orly - 9,043 (New)

Total France - 17,921

Netherlands

Amsterdam - 86,015 (+63%)

Switzerland

Geneva - 17,934 (+92%)

Austria

Salzburg - 1,895 (+46%)

Spain

Alicante - 1,112 (-73%)
Palma - 16,239 (+27%)
Malaga - 3,868 (-48%)

Total Spain - 21,219

Portugal

Faro - 3,766 (-4%)


Total Overall - 754,931 (+20%, includes charters/one off flights/diversions etc)

Some great figures there. Circa 90k on Glasgow and Edinburgh is food for thought for the likes of Easy. Let’s not forget that those numbers are largely from people paying Loganair prices so imagine what the numbers could be if both routes were served by Easy? Belfast, Dublin and Amsterdam also very strong.

[Breathe]

Interview with Christopher Tibbett, Aviation Director, AGS Airports, at Routes Europe 2024.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXws3GuyMCQ

[SouthernAlliance]

A break from the usual arguments/repeated posts/personal attacks:

Summary of passenger numbers & changes on all regular scheduled and charter routes for 2023, including % change on 2022.

UK

Aberdeen - 6,115 (+95%)
Alderney - 17,214 (+1%)
Belfast City - 79,810 (+32%)
Belfast International - 5,332 (New)
Edinburgh - 89,058 (+9%)
Glasgow - 87,044 (+16%)
Guernsey - 97,466 (+1%)
Jersey - 99,895 (+0%)
Manchester - 5,515 (-49%)
Newcastle - 46,908 (+20%)
Stornoway - 5,201 (New)

Total UK - 493,119

Republic of Ireland

Dublin - 76,300 (+150%)

France

Bergerac - 3,452 (-53%)
Chambery - 4,445 (+47%)
Limoges - 981 (-65%)
Paris Orly - 9,043 (New)

Total France - 17,921

Netherlands

Amsterdam - 86,015 (+63%)

Switzerland

Geneva - 17,934 (+92%)

Austria

Salzburg - 1,895 (+46%)

Spain

Alicante - 1,112 (-73%)
Palma - 16,239 (+27%)
Malaga - 3,868 (-48%)

Total Spain - 21,219

Portugal

Faro - 3,766 (-4%)


Total Overall - 754,931 (+20%, includes charters/one off flights/diversions etc)

Thanks Adfly, good data as ever. Apart from numbers for the Channel Islands, EDI/LM with 90k seems to have held up well (but with limited growth) and there has no doubt been some leakage to Ryanair at BOH with 48k on the same route. With this in mind, I would stake money on easyJet jumping on this from October with a daily 320 that would deliver well over 100k seats. LM coming off GLA means easyjet may see this as a time to move in for the kill. Really hard on LM when they delivered a decent recovery for the airport after Covid/BE but I guess this is how the big, bad, ruthless LCC operate!

[055166k]

It's the nature of the business. Flybe and Air Southwest for example.

[Asturias56]

"how the big, bad, ruthless LCC operate!"

ye s- the people who bring cheap fares to the masses and fly to all sorts of places the "legacy" flag carriers could never bother about

[SouthernAlliance]

"how the big, bad, ruthless LCC operate!"

ye s- the people who bring cheap fares to the masses and fly to all sorts of places the "legacy" flag carriers could never bother about

Was said tongue in cheek

[Asturias56]

Was said tongue in cheek
apologies its hard to tell on this thread TBH

[Ascupart]

I see EasyJet has just flown a new A320 neo on the Southampton to Glasgow route. Is this a first for the airport?

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/337x918/ez_3dfd91d8fb652ecd1f2b7cc0a290f49356106944.png

[stewyb]

I see EasyJet has just flown a new A320 neo on the Southampton to Glasgow route. Is this a first for the airport?

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/337x918/ez_3dfd91d8fb652ecd1f2b7cc0a290f49356106944.png

easyjet regularly fly in the NEO and believe they first appeared a couple of winters ago on GVA

[S.o.S.]

Oi. What is with you lot? Do not insult other posters. Thus far, I am deleting posts and giving warnings. be polite, we do not want this to become like other social media places. I will not say this again.

[Albert Hall]

A bit of news for everyone who thought Loganair fares were/are too high. One high fare monopoly has been swapped for another, just with far less flights and choice at SOU to show for it.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1125x1024/img_0381_b5d4591844f33716ee7cbf98fb43d8023a72b45e.jpeg
Inspired move by AGS to encourage easyJet onto the route. Edinburgh next?

[RW20]

Total nonsense I expect Easy have a few seats left to sell at premium prices!

[SKOJB]

As has been mentioned on here, GLA with easyJet is selling very well so assume full load on this date with only a seat or two left and hence can sell at a premium. Prices definitely didn’t start at that type of figure. And yes EDI will probably be next for this winter

[TartinTon]

Total nonsense I expect Easy have a few seats left to sell at premium prices!

Correct, they have about 15 seats left. Plus it's the school half-term so hardly surprising that flights are busy. A selective choice by Albert trying to make a non-existant point apparently seeing as outside of the half term the prices are from £23 upwards. You'd never find anything like that from Logan.

[mudcity]

Titan A321 tomorrow 1610 / 1740 STN / BRU charter

[Rivet Joint]

Correct, they have about 15 seats left. Plus it's the school half-term so hardly surprising that flights are busy. A selective choice by Albert trying to make a non-existant point apparently seeing as outside of the half term the prices are from £23 upwards. You'd never find anything like that from Logan.

Beat me to it. The start of a school holiday was certainly an interesting choice. And as others have put, the first 49 passengers that would fill a Loganair plane would have bought their tickets at no more than £50 with Easy.

Out of interest, I’ve just checked Loganair to EDI for the same dates and it’s circa £430. So £200 more than Easy! And you go on a bigger plane with Easy.

Also did a quick search for train tickets for the same dates, that will be £219. Just the 5 changes to make and 13.5 hour trip. £237 (just £18 more) on Easy isn’t looking too bad is it?

Yeah, think SOU are going to be ok with Easy.

[SWBKCB]

And you go on a bigger plane with Easy.

Having flown both, I don't think that's an advantage - and you get a Tunnocks's! :ok:

[LTNman]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/24246695.southampton-hailed-stress-free-london-alternative-summer/

[055166k]

KLM via Amsterdam.......£253.09 return....choice of flights and connections......AND 4 legs means FOUR of my favourite KLM cookies and free coffee.....AND.....duty free shopping. Don't think Orange.....think Blue. The earlier morning flight is brilliant for connections Europe-wide!!!!!!

[The breeze]

Some facts to clear up some confusion:

- A direct quote from the airport was that it cannot be profitable with the likes of Loganair serving regional routes. So it needs the scale of a low cost operator as a regional the size of Flybe is unlikely ever to happen again. So let’s all stop caring about bloody Loganair! They have been making hay whilst the sun-shined but are of no use to a profitable airport that want thousands using their shops, parking and facilities rather than a hundred or so. Please let this sink in as it’s direct from the airport and puts any debate of a low cost operator vs a regional to bed. It’s a low cost operator or nothing in today’s world.

- Frequency and the ability to do a day trip is a nice to have but I bet you can fly Easy to Glasgow, get a hotel for the night and a meal and still have paid less than a day return on Logan. Less frequency is only going to be an issue for a very small amount of people.

- It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Emerald as things stand are doing very well and are seeing growth. Having the Aer Lingus code share and brand gives them an edge. It’s the same reason why Easy could probably do AMS and KLM still stay with its world connections.

- The current rumours are that more routes will be added but from aircraft based elsewhere. Other bases have grown this way. You can still have a crew base in SOU but no aircraft based.

-Easy are now starting to rapidly add new aircraft so will now have capacity for growth.


emerald lost 21 million euros last year. They are not ‘doing very well’, and wont be doing it much longer at that rate

[cavokblues]

Also did a quick search for train tickets for the same dates, that will be £219. Just the 5 changes to make and 13.5 hour trip. £237 (just £18 more) on Easy isn’t looking too bad is it?
.

Many made this argument when people were complaining Loganair were too expensive.............

Anyway, the prices seem to be an anomaly more than a long term trend.

[Albert Hall]

The point I was making is that it isn't all sweetness, light and low fares. They're just as able to charge high fares as any other airline - and with a monopoly on SOU/GLA from next week, are taking the opportunity. They are a business at the end of the day, so why wouldn't you. But SOU is also a business and I'd wager that the airport's income is lower from 1 x A320 carrying the same number of passengers as 4 x Embraers, so hardly helping profitability.

[SKOJB]

The point I was making is that it isn't all sweetness, light and low fares. They're just as able to charge high fares as any other airline - and with a monopoly on SOU/GLA from next week, are taking the opportunity. They are a business at the end of the day, so why wouldn't you. But SOU is also a business and I'd wager that the airport's income is lower from 1 x A320 carrying the same number of passengers as 4 x Embraers, so hardly helping profitability.

The harsh reality and fact of matter is that having easyjet jump on GLA and most likely EDI, thus LM being removed, is a price I bet the airport and its owners are willing to pay in return for an orange network/base of say 15-20 routes in the future. Economies of scale and the bigger picture etc etc

[Rivet Joint]

Titan A321 tomorrow 1610 / 1740 STN / BRU charter

Looks to be their A321 Neo. Be interesting to know how many it is able to carry from SOU.

Having flown both, I don't think that's an advantage - and you get a Tunnocks's! :ok:

The offer of Tunnocks was a good move from Logan. Many have a weakness for those, including me :ooh:

The point I was making is that it isn't all sweetness, light and low fares. They're just as able to charge high fares as any other airline - and with a monopoly on SOU/GLA from next week, are taking the opportunity. They are a business at the end of the day, so why wouldn't you. But SOU is also a business and I'd wager that the airport's income is lower from 1 x A320 carrying the same number of passengers as 4 x Embraers, so hardly helping profitability.

Good point in respect of less flights meaning less landing fees. The increase in passenger numbers and spends in the shops, car parking should make up for that though. Plus as another poster has said a larger portfolio of routes are an option with Easy unlike with a regional like Logan. Except for the the few airports that are lucky to have a diverse revenue stream or luck with being near oil fields etc, the way to break even today if you are predominantly a commercial ops airport is to have a low cost carrier. There are no regionals of sufficient scale to prop up airports like Flybe use to.

[TCAS FAN]

Looks to be their A321 Neo. Be interesting to know how many it is able to carry from SOU.

.

Simples, if it’s only going to BRU, full house if needed!

[SouthernAlliance]

Simples, if it’s only going to BRU, full house if needed!

I have seen many Wizz A321 lift off from LTN in a very short length of runway and presumably going to destinations all over Europe. Very impressive performance for a larger aircraft.

[L1011effoh]

Interesting to note that the Ezy to Palma last night was having performance problems, requested RW02 for departure with wind 260/7 on a dry runway with QNH 1007 and still sounding a bit unsure, needing to “check figures” before takeoff. That doesn’t bode well for everyone’s EZY expansionist fantasies.

I have an acquaintance who was planning to travel GLA-SOU for a cruise and had to rebook due to LM stopping the service - EZY prices were in excess of £800 for 3 people including baggage so she has booked the train and a hotel, still more than the LM flights cost.

[wanna]

The high ground will always be an issue at the end of 20, until your sat on the threshold its hard to appreciate how large an obstacle it is.

Shame they didn't look at EDI - BOH with RYR for the flights, very reasonable prices and times for the most part and whilst not as convenient, still much more convenient than the train.

[L1011effoh]

The high ground will always be an issue at the end of 20, until you’re sat on the threshold it’s hard to appreciate how large an obstacle it is.


I’ve seen it lots of times as you describe. The point I was trying to make was this was a SOU-PMI flight in relatively benign performance conditions, almost calm winds, close to ISA conditions in the dry. Many people in this thread have suggested grand destinations for EZY (Canaries anyone?) and here they are stressing about takeoff performance limiting mass for a PMI.

Thanks for your other suggestion BTW.

[inOban]

Beat me to it. The start of a school holiday was certainly an interesting choice. And as others have put, the first 49 passengers that would fill a Loganair plane would have bought their tickets at no more than £50 with Easy.

Out of interest, I’ve just checked Loganair to EDI for the same dates and it’s circa £430. So £200 more than Easy! And you go on a bigger plane with Easy.

Also did a quick search for train tickets for the same dates, that will be £219. Just the 5 changes to make and 13.5 hour trip. £237 (just £18 more) on Easy isn’t looking too bad is it?

Yeah, think SOU are going to be ok with Easy.
Two changes and about 6 hours. Change at Waterloo to Northern line and then Euston to Glasgow

[Sotonsean]

Two changes and about 6 hours. Change at Waterloo to Northern line and then Euston to Glasgow

That is by far the quickest way of getting from Southampton to Glasgow by train.

The same applies by travelling from Southampton to Manchester via London Euston.

Quick, fast, and easy with a good schedule. It's a lot quicker than a lengthy cross-country railway journey.

The London underground might not be for everyone but there's always the option of getting a taxi between London Euston and London Waterloo..

[Asturias56]

depends on how much baggage you have - via London is a pain if you're loaded up with heavy baggage

Cross Country has its advantages (not many I'd agree)

[SotonFlightpath]

That is by far the quickest way of getting from Southampton to Glasgow by train.

The same applies by travelling from Southampton to Manchester via London Euston.

Quick, fast, and easy with a good schedule. It's a lot quicker than a lengthy cross-country railway journey.

The London underground might not be for everyone but there's always the option of getting a taxi between London Euston and London Waterloo..

But even as a lifelong rail enthusiast, I have to say unless the journey by rail is being made partly for the pleasure of being on a train, any journey from the Southampton area to points north of Birmingham are a complete pain by rail. And, unfortunately, there’s very little pleasure in either using Cross-Country with their short-formed, mega crowded trains, or battling with the crowds across London.

Oh how I wish for the return of a blissful relaxing bimble up to Manchester after lunch on a sunny summer afternoon, with just enough time to enjoy a quick cuppa in a lovely clean, new EMB 175!

[Rivet Joint]

Two changes and about 6 hours. Change at Waterloo to Northern line and then Euston to Glasgow

Was just a quick look on Trainline app but can see there are trains earlier in the day for that date between 6-7 hours with 2-3 changes.

Regardless, outside people with a fear of flying, I’d be surprised if anyone would not pay the extra £18 to get to Glasgow in 1.5 hours vs 6-7 hours. Let’s wait and see what the passenger numbers are like when Logan drop off the route.

[LTNman]

It is all about frequency with a train at least every hour.

[BOHskies]

Weird Glitch...

Oman Air 789 flight WY101 shown as diverted to Southampton this evening on FR24

Maybe one day.

[SouthernAlliance]

Eastern has reduced CDG down to 4 weekly until mid July.

[Sotonsean]

Eastern has reduced CDG down to 4 weekly until mid July.

Eastern are pathetic. Slowly but surely killing off the route. With an AF code you would have at least expected the service to be maintained on daily basis.

Once Air France have overcome their aircraft and pilot shortage then hopefully they might reinstate their own flights without having to rely on the awful Eastern Airways.

Two upcoming examples of demand for a Paris to Southampton link.

On the 10 May we see 55 passengers arriving at LHR from Paris to join the Cunard Line QUEEN ANNE.

On 12 May we see 125 passengers arriving at LHR from Paris to join the Cunard Line QUEEN MARY 2.

These passengers are being coached from LHR direct to the cruise terminals in Southampton.

These are just two examples for next week, there are many other upcoming similar examples.

There is obviously the demand for Paris from Southampton but passengers are either unaware of the current flights or are put off from booking due to the unreliability of Eastern Airways.

[FQTLSteve]

Does this mean that the EMA-CDG service is also downgraded to 4 weekly too?

[SouthernAlliance]

Does this mean that the EMA-CDG service is also downgraded to 4 weekly too?

Yes the same

[SouthernAlliance]

T3 CDG cancelled again today, total embarrassment for the airport and what is the point with this outfit!

[Rivet Joint]

T3 CDG cancelled again today, total embarrassment for the airport and what is the point with this outfit!

Totally agree. What’s odd is since they dropped the Cardiff flight it has been operating fine and pretty much on time. Suddenly out of nowhere it’s moved to only 4 a week and keeps getting cancelled. Maybe a crewing issue? Either way as I have said before there really should be a regulatory body that stops airlines like this from offering commercial flights. Your average passenger will not know about the long awful track record this airline has and will probably be missing important meetings, family get togethers, cruises etc because of this shoddy outfit. It shouldn’t be allowed to continue. In other industries there are regulatory bodies that shut outfits down if the are operated badly. Same should apply here.

[SotonFlightpath]

Totally agree. What’s odd is since they dropped the Cardiff flight it has been operating fine and pretty much on time. Suddenly out of nowhere it’s moved to only 4 a week and keeps getting cancelled. Maybe a crewing issue? Either way as I have said before there really should be a regulatory body that stops airlines like this from offering commercial flights. Your average passenger will not know about the long awful track record this airline has and will probably be missing important meetings, family get togethers, cruises etc because of this shoddy outfit. It shouldn’t be allowed to continue. In other industries there are regulatory bodies that shut outfits down if the are operated badly. Same should apply here.

I completely agree, it's a shambles and most normal everyday people would have absolutely no idea that this sort of thing happens on a regular basis. I can't help thinking that this would be a great route for easyJet to operate three or four times a week, at least it would provide a nice aircraft, competitive pricing and a fair chance of actually operating!

[Sotonsean]

Totally agree. What’s odd is since they dropped the Cardiff flight it has been operating fine and pretty much on time. Suddenly out of nowhere it’s moved to only 4 a week and keeps getting cancelled. Maybe a crewing issue? Either way as I have said before there really should be a regulatory body that stops airlines like this from offering commercial flights. Your average passenger will not know about the long awful track record this airline has and will probably be missing important meetings, family get togethers, cruises etc because of this shoddy outfit. It shouldn’t be allowed to continue. In other industries there are regulatory bodies that shut outfits down if the are operated badly. Same should apply here.

I absolutely one hundred percent agree with everything you have mentioned in your post 👏

Now thats a decent post RJ. :ok:

There are so many passengers arriving from Paris to join their cruise from the Port of Southampton. 99% of those passengers are either travelling through LHR or via St Pancras on the Eurostar. They are then generally coached directly to the cruise terminals.

When Flybe was in operation there used to be a half hourly shuttle service on Saturdays between the airport and the City Cruise Terminal on behalf of Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. Manchester was always the most popular flight followed by Glasgow and Belfast. RCCL had an operating agreement in place with Flybe. None of that exists anymore.

Do not underestimate the demand for international passengers as well as domestic who are joining their cruise from the Port of Southampton. It's not northern Europe's busiest cruise port for nothing with 2.3 million passengers expected in 2024.

[darren1]

Eastern are pathetic. Slowly but surely killing off the route. With an AF code you would have at least expected the service to be maintained on daily basis.

Once Air France have overcome their aircraft and pilot shortage then hopefully they might reinstate their own flights without having to rely on the awful Eastern Airways.

Two upcoming examples of demand for a Paris to Southampton link.

On the 10 May we see 55 passengers arriving at LHR from Paris to join the Cunard Line QUEEN ANNE.

On 12 May we see 125 passengers arriving at LHR from Paris to join the Cunard Line QUEEN MARY 2.

These passengers are being coached from LHR direct to the cruise terminals in Southampton.

These are just two examples for next week, there are many other upcoming similar examples.

There is obviously the demand for Paris from Southampton but passengers are either unaware of the current flights or are put off from booking due to the unreliability of Eastern Airways.

You have to give praise to a company not trusting Eastern.

[Rivet Joint]

I absolutely one hundred percent agree with everything you have mentioned in your post 👏

Now thats a decent post RJ. :ok:

There are so many passengers arriving from Paris to join their cruise from the Port of Southampton. 99% of those passengers are either travelling through LHR or via St Pancras on the Eurostar. They are then generally coached directly to the cruise terminals.

When Flybe was in operation there used to be a half hourly shuttle service on Saturdays between the airport and the City Cruise Terminal on behalf of Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. Manchester was always the most popular flight followed by Glasgow and Belfast. RCCL had an operating agreement in place with Flybe. None of that exists anymore.

Do not underestimate the demand for international passengers as well as domestic who are joining their cruise from the Port of Southampton. It's not northern Europe's busiest cruise port for nothing with 2.3 million passengers expected in 2024.

Absolutely. Quite a few businesses based locally that need to get to Paris on a regular basis. Lots of African students connecting on AF’s extensive African routes. And let’s not forget Disney land and tourists wanting to explore Paris generally. Wasn’t it 3 daily at one point under BE?

[SouthernAlliance]

Believe easyJet release new winter routes later this month. Just maybe CDG included?

[SouthernAlliance]

Encouraging to see recent and future easyjet departures to PMI and GLA sold out. Fingers crossed a new route or two will be added at their next release.

[rog747]

EZY to reopen the SEN Southend Base with 3 x based A320 from 1 May 2025 - via SeanM on X

Here's hoping for SOU then....

[SWBKCB]

Does it increase or decrease the chances of a SOU base - probably increases in the long term as it shows that EZY are interested in the model (small base, restricted runway, near London) but in the short term does it divert resources away - are they likely to want to take on two new bases so close together? More likely to follow the SEN/BHX model of a build up of away flying over a number of years.

Note also that SEN can offer destinations not available from SOU - so SOU would need to be able to provide returns on a greater number of shorter flights.

[LTNman]

Having been to both, Southend and Southampton are not close together and serve different catchment areas.

[Albert Hall]

There will be no easyJet base at SOU for Summer 2025. However, the opening of the SEN base is likely to allow some of the current away-based flying to be taken over by the based aircraft alongside the new routes just announced. It's quite possible that SOU will receive some more away-based flying, but then again, it was supposed to have more this summer until a couple of ALC slots earmarked for SOU were moved to BHD and PMI slots shifted to NCL. So no base - might get some more away-based flying for S25 - but also might not.

[laviation]

I would be surprised if MAN isn’t added by S25

[RW20]

There will be no easyJet base at SOU for Summer 2025. However, the opening of the SEN base is likely to allow some of the current away-based flying to be taken over by the based aircraft alongside the new routes just announced. It's quite possible that SOU will receive some more away-based flying, but then again, it was supposed to have more this summer until a couple of ALC slots earmarked for SOU were moved to BHD and PMI slots shifted to NCL. So no base - might get some more away-based flying for S25 - but also might not.
SEN big game changer for Easy is its opening hours ,hence based aircraft 2025,
I'm sure if SOU had less restrictions on open hours Easy would have opened a base by 2025

[LTNman]

Easy has lost slots at Gatwick, not sure if it is this year or next but a shift to Essex was a logical step.

Opening hours is a balance between the locals being upset and who suffer and the demands of the airport that cares little about them.

[22/04]

What is the history of tightly restricted opening hours at Southampton. They were fine when it was largely an airport serving domestic travel and second homers but are really holding it back now. Any chance of allowing just a few later arrivals as that would be a game changer. The short final runway 07 at LTN foe example is quite densely populated.

[SWBKCB]

Wasn't it part of the planning permission agreement to get the extension?

[Flitefone]

Wasn't it part of the planning permission agreement to get the extension?

here’s the current agreement, the legal basis on which local councils and airports operate for civil aviation taking into account local circumstances:

https://www.southamptonairport.com/media/wf0jfaiy/sial-s106-legal-agreement-final-clean.pdf

[Irishshamrock]

Highly likely that SOU will get additional routes and frequency from away based flying in 2025 to:

Amsterdam
Paris
Malaga
Alicante
Faro
Palma

[LTNman]

Any chance of allowing just a few later arrivals as that would be a game changer. The short final runway 07 at LTN foe example is quite densely populated.

There is a massive difference as the Council in Luton owns their airport and has zero interest in noise and disturbance while the Council for Southampton doesn’t and instead takes into account residents concerns.

[Rivet Joint]

I see the same poster has tried to derail the thread again around opening hours so I will post this great post once again:


Originally Posted by Severn
Most easyJet Europe bases are at airports with restrictive operating hours. If they make bases work at these airports with time restrictions, so why not at SOU?
Below is a list of the EJU bases and shows the time that the last EJU based aircraft lands.

ORY - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
NTE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
AMS - last based EJU flight lands at 22:35
BCN - last based EJU flight lands at 22:50
NCE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
NAP - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
BER - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
LYS - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BOD - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
OPO - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BSL - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
GVA - last based EJU flight lands at 23:10
CDG - last based EJU flight lands at 23:25

[SotonFlightpath]

There is a massive difference as the Council in Luton owns their airport and has zero interest in noise and disturbance while the Council for Southampton doesn’t and instead takes into account residents concerns.

Southampton Airport doesn't actually fall within the Southampton City Council boundary, it's situated just over the border in Eastleigh Borough Council's patch.

I also think it's worth mentioning that Southend Airport is a long way from Southampton, 129 miles according to AA Route Finder, and in perfect traffic conditions it takes approximately two and a half hours, so make that three in the real world. Exeter, Bournemouth, Bristol, Birmingham, Luton, Stansted, Heathrow and Gatwick are all closer to Southampton than Southend is!

[Rivet Joint]

Does it increase or decrease the chances of a SOU base - probably increases in the long term as it shows that EZY are interested in the model (small base, restricted runway, near London) but in the short term does it divert resources away - are they likely to want to take on two new bases so close together? More likely to follow the SEN/BHX model of a build up of away flying over a number of years.

Note also that SEN can offer destinations not available from SOU - so SOU would need to be able to provide returns on a greater number of shorter flights.

You have to say it’s a positive sign as it shows that Easy are having to get their growth from outside the big London airports again. Naturally, this suggests SOU could be next. Personally I think SOU should take preference over SEN as it has far more potential. Looking at a map SEN has water nearly all the way around it, certainly more than SOU and STN is just up the road. Let’s not forget that SEN has never really had domestic routes whereas SOU still has a big need for those which adds another dynamic. I’m obviously bias though.

[SotonFlightpath]

You have to say it’s a positive sign as it shows that Easy are having to get their growth from outside the big London airports again. Naturally, this suggests SOU could be next. Personally I think SOU should take preference over SEN as it has far more potential. Looking at a map SEN has water nearly all the way around it, certainly more than SOU and STN is just up the road. Let’s not forget that SEN has never really had domestic routes whereas SOU still has a big need for those which adds another dynamic. I’m obviously bias though.

Yep, I'm biased too, but Southampton does have what on paper looks to be a good case for EZY expansion, being in the centre of the UK's 7th largest metropolitan area and being twice as far from London as Southend is. One would think that it would be a prime region to cover, but I guess at the moment the numbers don't quite add up yet?

The major urban areas of the UK are:
1 London
2. Manchester
3. Birmingham
4. Leeds
5. Glasgow
6. Liverpool
7. Southampton
8. Newcastle
9. Nottingham
10. Sheffield
11. Bristol

https://www.citypopulation.de/en/uk/cities/ua/

Maybe new routes next year and a base in the next year or two perhaps?

[SWBKCB]

I see the same poster has tried to derail the thread again around opening hours so I will post this great post once again.

But look at the location of those airports and their primary destinations. The issue is how many sectors can you get into the restricted opening period. Probably less of an issue for SOU as it is so far south (so shorter distance to the likely major destinations), and in a way the range restrictions help as you're not trying to fit in Turkey or Egypt plus a.n.other into the restricted opening hours,

certainly more than SOU and STN is just up the road.

Good job SOU isn't near any major airports :ok:

[FRatSTN]

I see the same poster has tried to derail the thread again around opening hours so I will post this great post once again:


Originally Posted by Severn
Most easyJet Europe bases are at airports with restrictive operating hours. If they make bases work at these airports with time restrictions, so why not at SOU?
Below is a list of the EJU bases and shows the time that the last EJU based aircraft lands.

ORY - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
NTE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
AMS - last based EJU flight lands at 22:35
BCN - last based EJU flight lands at 22:50
NCE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
NAP - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
BER - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
LYS - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BOD - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
OPO - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BSL - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
GVA - last based EJU flight lands at 23:10
CDG - last based EJU flight lands at 23:25

A fair observation in principle but the only real challenge I see with this is that most of those airports are all quite central on the continent and typically have a much broader spread in route sector lengths, therefore there's more flex to maximise aircraft usage within the operating hours.

In the UK, the types of routes that would realistically operate are a few short hops to BFS/AMS, but the majority are 2.5hrs plus to the Med. In that case, by the time you've done say SOU-ALC-SOU-PMI-SOU it's probably still quite early evening yet there's probably not enough time left to fly any other viable route, whereas from less restricted airports in the UK they'd probably get a third rotation in.

I'm not saying a future base isn't a possibility but this is a general reality which any airline will need to evaluate very closely and will need the right mix of routes to make work effectively.

[Sharklet_321]

The A320NEO is a perfect fit for SOU and the runway performance should not be limited for it unlike the A320. If easyJet can make Las Palmas and Turkey work from SEN then they should be able to make that work from SOU. Only issue is obstacle clearance.

That way a typical day would look like SOU-PMI-SOU-LPA-SOU which provides better utilisation and should keep it within operating hours

[VickersVicount]

Only issue is obstacle clearance.

Which would seem, superficially, a fairly big obstacle 😵‍💫

[FRatSTN]

That way a typical day would look like SOU-PMI-SOU-LPA-SOU which provides better utilisation and should keep it within operating hours

You could indeed find ways to make it work, but you're still reliant on a certain balance of routes to get the utilisation needed.

Jet2 for example some years back used to operate the vast majority of shorter sectors to the Balearics, Mainland Spain and Portugal on the first rotation and then longer sectors to the Canaries, Greece, Turkey and Cyprus on the second rotation. That worked when they had a broadly 50/50 split between those destination groupings.

There's still some evidence of that today but as they've expanded more into Greece and Turkey especially there's much more of a mix now. Often you will get Turkey or Canaries now on the first rotation, followed by another rotation out the that same kind of distance, which consequently don't get back to base till maybe 2am. In a few cases they'll do three rotations to the likes of Spain which only started to happen more they closed the ALC and PMI summer bases.

The point I'm making is you could make an EZY base work within restricted hours, but it requires a certain balance of routes/frequencies to get the utilisation needed.

[Ascupart]

March's CAA figures are available (https://www.caa.co.uk/Documents/Download/11901/12c05e71-0e64-4463-ad79-f1c991451b0f/16550). Southampton had 67,160 passengers in March.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1359x808/soton1_1b81abef3e806ce9c8a60e6904d7972c60d67d2a.png

March figures compared to the same month in 2019:
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/781x490/soton2_36de86962f6bc56a06988d361bc94dbbad1b258d.png

[RW20]

Highly likely that SOU will get additional routes and frequency from away based flying in 2025 to:

Amsterdam
Paris
Malaga
Alicante
Faro
Palma
Hopefully this will happen,SOU needs expansion for long term survival

[Sotonsean]

Hopefully this will happen,SOU needs expansion for long term survival

Courtesy of Fat Boy Slim.

"I don't know whether he was really saying it, all he kept saying was".

Eat, Sleep, Rave, Repeat.
SOU needs expansion for long term survival
Eat, Sleep, Rave, Repeat
SOU needs expansion for long term survival
Eat, Sleep, Rave, Repeat

[Albert Hall]

Highly likely that SOU will get additional routes and frequency from away based flying in 2025 to:

Amsterdam
Paris
Malaga
Alicante
Faro
Palma

As you’ve taken my earlier comment and added to it, you have introduced some misinformation. No prospect of easyJet on SOU-AMS.

[SKOJB]

As you’ve taken my earlier comment and added to it, you have introduced some misinformation. No prospect of easyJet on SOU-AMS.

Good, happy to keep KLM serving the airport 3 daily. CDG however would be good news

[rog747]

Update on SEN's Southend S2025 newly reopened base and latest routes.

EasyJet is opening its 10th UK base with three 186-seat A320neo aircraft assigned to Southend in time for summer 2025.
The base will open next March with six new routes to Pisa, Gran Canaria, Dalaman, Antalya, Marrakech, and Enfidha (Tunisia) to operate in addition to its current programme.

Am surprised that Greece is not there...

[Asturias56]

Which would seem, superficially, a fairly big obstacle 😵‍💫

Several hundred posts on the subject and someone has just noticed the elephant in the room......................

[cavokblues]

You have to say it’s a positive sign as it shows that Easy are having to get their growth from outside the big London airports again. Naturally, this suggests SOU could be next. Personally I think SOU should take preference over SEN as it has far more potential. Looking at a map SEN has water nearly all the way around it, certainly more than SOU and STN is just up the road. Let’s not forget that SEN has never really had domestic routes whereas SOU still has a big need for those which adds another dynamic. I’m obviously bias though.

Not sure I agree SOU has more potential than SEN. Yeah, SEN is close to the water (SOU isn't exactly far from the sea either?) but it has a much larger population nearby. Just draw a radius or a polygon around it on any online population calculator website and you will see the population is far in excess of anything SOU can match. Similarly, it's serving the London market. Luton is pretty much full. Ditto Stansted and Gatwick. Easyjet retreated way too quickly from Stansted post COVID but SEN gives them an empty airport and extra capacity needed into the all important London market.

Also, I fully appreciate other EJU bases have flights which operate within the operational hours SOU can offer. But, easyjet's main focus at the moment in the UK is growing their holiday business, especially into regions like Turkey. Look at the flights offered out of SEN, most of them have return flights landing after 11pm and into the early hours of the morning.

I can see why they plumped for SEN over SOU at this moment for a new base. Although this doesn't mean there might not be some other growth at SOU over the next few years.....

[GayFriendly]

Perhaps the airport needs to be renamed London-Southampton? I'll get my coat ....

[LTNman]

Catchment coverage of U.K. population.

Within 1 hour
SOU 3.2%
SEN 2.8%
BOH 2.1%

Within 90 mins
SEN 12.9%
SOU 7.2%
BOH 4.2%

Within 2 hours league table
LHR 1st 31.5%
LTN 2nd 31%
LGW 3rd 29.9%
STN 4th 29.8%
SEN 7th 24.7%
SOU 10th 19.8%
BOH 17th 8.2%

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c17959aed915d0c736a1ecb/york-regional-connectivity-report.pdf

[Flitefone]

Catchment coverage of U.K. population.

Within 1 hour
SOU 3.2%
SEN 2.8%
BOH 2.1%

Within 90 mins
SEN 12.9%
SOU 7.2%
BOH 4.2%

Within 2 hours league table
LHR 1st 31.5%
LTN 2nd 31%
LGW 3rd 29.9%
STN 4th 29.8%
SEN 7th 24.7%
SOU 10th 19.8%
BOH 17th 8.2%

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c17959aed915d0c736a1ecb/york-regional-connectivity-report.pdf


The York Aviation report is excellent. It is important to remember that for individual airports it is the overlap of airport catchment areas that matters, not the catchment itself. Specifically what choice of airports do passengers have within 60, 90 and 120 minutes of their home/destination? In the case of SOU, that brings in BRS, BOH, EXT, LGW, LHR, LCY (by train), STN and in some cases even BHX and SEN. Thats a lot of choice/competition.

In general, travellers enjoy the reduced hassle of regional airports and will use them if the destination options and prices work.

Airlines on the other hand prefer to concentrate their efforts in as few airports as possible for each market (southern England) which brings us to the slots question. The main airports are already full. Peak season runway capacity is not available in southern England (in the summer season) except at EXT, BOH, SOU and SEN. This is why airlines are announcing new routes at these airports and why SOU will grow (in summer at least).

The risk for these smaller airports is that additional runway capacity planned at LTN, STN and LGW is approved by planners, a 50/50 likelihood - if that planned growth is approved and goes ahead, airlines will hoover up that new capacity rather than add flights to regional airports - all because of the huge demand from London.

Then there is the matter of airspace congestion, which for London is much harder to fix

On balance therefore, the prospects for growth at SOU in summer seasons are very good. But as for many airports, seasonality will be the challenge. Cue tumbleweed each winter.


FF

[Ascupart]

AGS airports - first quarter 2024 passengers compared to previous years. Southampton and Aberdeen yet to exceed 2020 figures.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1629x937/ags1_0950d2f76d78ea3890f56f94f76dbc0ecec58301.png
AGS pax first quarter

[Asturias56]

Aberdeen has been murdered by the Govt levy on the Oil & gas companies - I see Chevron are pulling out now

[SouthernAlliance]

AGS airports - first quarter 2024 passengers compared to previous years. Southampton and Aberdeen yet to exceed 2020 figures.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1629x937/ags1_0950d2f76d78ea3890f56f94f76dbc0ecec58301.png
AGS pax first quarter

Going over old ground time and time again on this thread concerning SOU growth versus pre Covid. Everyone knows this is a reflection of BE going bust and the business model the airport operated previous where 90% of traffic relied on one airline. This has been remedied somewhat and good to see growth now appearing month on month. This will only improve with easyjet now doing some summer sun and hopefully adding a few more routes so credit to the airport for making these changes although a lot more still to be done. Of course SOU has been on the back foot massively compared to most other airports recovering from the pandemic but that growth curve is starting to move in a positive direction and there is no reason why that can’t continue over the next few years.

[SotonFlightpath]

I’m not connected with the industry at all in any way, I don’t know any ‘insiders’ and I haven’t heard any juicy rumours.

I’m sure EZY will increase the number of flights and destinations and who knows, in time they may open up a small base.

But a part of me can’t help thinking that if they dilly-dally for too long they may just get pipped to the post by an outsider like Wizz.

[Sharklet_321]

The catchment coverage shows a disproportionate number for SOU based on its proximity to London. There is no way the vast majority of the 90-120min population will even consider SOU as a departure point.

Propensity to fly (ptf) also needs to be taken into account.

[SKOJB]

Not sure on ptf and all this jargon but I would wager that within the next few years the one thing that has always done really well from the airport and that’s domestic flying will be taken up by easyjet and this includes Jersey. Passengers within 60 minutes of SOU would rather travel from a smaller regional for domestics than experience the hell holes of LHR/LGW

[SWBKCB]

Not sure on ptf and all this jargon but I would wager that within the next few years the one thing that has always done really well from the airport and that’s domestic flying will be taken up by easyjet and this includes Jersey. Passengers within 60 minutes of SOU would rather travel from a smaller regional for domestics than experience the hell holes of LHR/LGW


Which will put SOU back in the position of being 90% reliant on one carrier.

[Request Orbit]

I think a lot of the 60 minute population might be optimistic. Probably technically correct but if it requires any travel on the M27, there’s no guarantees.

[SKOJB]

Which will put SOU back in the position of being 90% reliant on one carrier.

Yes you are right but l can see this happening on domestics especially. The days of niche/smaller regional carriers operating multiple daily are diminishing and unfortunately will become unsustainable at some point in the near future, mainly borne out of course from reduced business travel.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I think a lot of the 60 minute population might be optimistic. Probably technically correct but if it requires any travel on the M27, there’s no guarantees.
Having moved West, SOU is now technically my closest airport but the M4 and LHR still get my business, it's a London mindset coupled to a much larger set of options. The catchment area is therefore slightly overstated, to what extent will become apparent as easyJet operations mature.

[SotonFlightpath]

Having moved West, SOU is now technically my closest airport but the M4 and LHR still get my business, it's a London mindset coupled to a much larger set of options. The catchment area is therefore slightly overstated, to what extent will become apparent as easyJet operations mature.

This will continue to be a challenge for the airport going forward until a reasonable portfolio of routes becomes available and awareness grows.

Even within the local area around SOU awareness of routes is still very patchy. I live around seven miles from the airport and my next door neighbours were planning a ski trip. Until I mentioned it, they were completely unaware that it was possible to fly direct to Geneva with EZY from Southampton.

As soon as I mentioned it they were on the case and booked the same day.

[SKOJB]

Early days admittedly but the start of BA to Bergerac for the corresponding weekend next May is not bookable via the app. One wonders if they will be back for another summer season?

[Rivet Joint]

Eastern have cancelled the Paris flight again. Absolutely ridiculous excuse for a business.

Blue Islands also regularly cancelling flights lately. I would be surprised if the SOU routes are not their most popular so why they are cancelling flights from there and still flying to the likes of East Midlands, Exeter and Dublin is beyond me.

I cannot recall seeing any of the Easy flights cancelled from SOU. Bring them on I say. There was a time when regional airlines went the extra mile to keep your business but can’t say that anymore.

[SealinkBF]

Eastern have cancelled the Paris flight again. Absolutely ridiculous excuse for a business.

Blue Islands also regularly cancelling flights lately. I would be surprised if the SOU routes are not their most popular so why they are cancelling flights from there and still flying to the likes of East Midlands, Exeter and Dublin is beyond me.

I cannot recall seeing any of the Easy flights cancelled from SOU. Bring them on I say. There was a time when regional airlines went the extra mile to keep your business but can’t say that anymore.

I'm wondering if there were any bookings on the flight in the first place... (in either direction)

[Albert Hall]

Eastern was scheduled to operate but cancelled due to crew sickness (cabin crew, I believe). Blue Islands cancelled one as Swissport have taken an ATR72 out of action in Jersey. Not a lot you can do about that, especially when they’re the only handling agent.

[RW20]

Early days admittedly but the start of BA to Bergerac for the corresponding weekend next May is not bookable via the app. One wonders if they will be back for another summer season?
Can we hope for some good news for SOU?, what with EZY choosing SEN to base aircraft over Southampton ,Eastern continuing down a disaster path to Paris, positive news is needed,but where will it come from?

[Rivet Joint]

Eastern was scheduled to operate but cancelled due to crew sickness (cabin crew, I believe). Blue Islands cancelled one as Swissport have taken an ATR72 out of action in Jersey. Not a lot you can do about that, especially when they’re the only handling agent.

Thanks for confirming. Whilst these things are unfortunate and not their fault it does seem to be stuck record certainly with Eastern. They have an ATR doing the Newquay route and 3 Embraers with KLM. That in theory leaves 3 other ATRs and an Embraer spare to cover the Paris route. Football season is over so less charters. It’s just not a good look especially when there is a code share.

When it comes to Blue Islands, them and Aurigny appear to be two peas in a pod with their poor decision making with expanding their operations. Common sense dictates that to expand you probably need to be adding an additional aircraft, certainly not expanding whilst there is industry wide shortages on labour and parts leading to a lack off availability even for the existing fleet. I see Aurigny are now hinting at scaling back their ops. Personally I feel all the new routes should have been shelved before they launched. Better to annoy a few people on those speculative routes then lose goodwill with long standing customers on their main routes.

[Albert Hall]

Eastern has three ATRs on the ground today and still cancelling flights. That’s an organisational issue and not bad luck.

On the others, I don’t think Blue Islands has launched anything new? The odd flight to IOM took place last year and all that’s happened is that it’s going to LUX instead of IOM some weeks, unless I missed something. Aurigny has gone for LCY, STN, LPL, CDG and EDI so schedule has grown in quite a big way.

[kcockayne]

And I would doubt that any of them are cramming the punters in.

[cavokblues]

Might be more to come yet but the GLA service appears to remain at x2 weekly between November - April 2025, before resuming a daily service from next May.

Belfast also seems to reduced to x4 per week for last few weeks of October before going to x3 between November and resuming x5 per week from next April.

[SouthernAlliance]

Might be more to come yet but the GLA service appears to remain at x2 weekly between November - April 2025, before resuming a daily service from next May.

Belfast also seems to reduced to x4 per week for last few weeks of October before going to x3 between November and resuming x5 per week from next April.

You would hope more will be added for GLA as that’s quite some reduction from x 4 daily with LM to x 2 weekly and what many on here were fearing. BFS not so critical as you still have EI x 2 daily to BHD. Next summers easyjet sun schedule seems to mirror this years at present.

[RW20]

Might be more to come yet but the GLA service appears to remain at x2 weekly between November - April 2025, before resuming a daily service from next May.

Belfast also seems to reduced to x4 per week for last few weeks of October before going to x3 between November and resuming x5 per week from next April.
​​​​​​If Pax numbers are good on the GLA route then surely 2x weekly seems very light, especially now Loganair have discontinued there service?

[SouthernAlliance]

​​​​​​If Pax numbers are good on the GLA route then surely 2x weekly seems very light, especially now Loganair have discontinued there service?

Agreed and think we will see more capacity added as this route is not seasonal in pax traffic and has been performing well by all accounts

[VickersVicount]

remember it is total weekly seats rather than frequency… eg an A319/20 vs E145

[SouthernAlliance]

remember it is total weekly seats rather than frequency… eg an A319/20 vs E145

still leaves a huge reduction of 1902 seats weekly!

[DC3 Dave]

​​​​​​If Pax numbers are good on the GLA route then surely 2x weekly seems very light, especially now Loganair have discontinued there service?

EZY will be cautious. If they go to 3x weekly and carry 50% more pax as a result, great. But if the overall yield only increases by 20% they may consider that extra flight pointless. They have the figures and time will tell.

[SWBKCB]

EZY will be cautious. If they go to 3x weekly and carry 50% more pax as a result, great. But if the overall yield only increases by 20% they may consider that extra flight pointless. They have the figures and time will tell.

And will drop the route if it can make more money elsewhere

[SotonFlightpath]

I know that it’s still early days, but it’s beginning to look like EZY are quite happy to make a bit of money on the side by operating a few flights from SOU when they feel nothing more lucrative is available.

One would like to say time to pin some hopes on someone else, but there simply aren’t too many options are there?

Ryanair are big ‘no-no’ with their lumbering 738s, as are Tui and Jet2 - and anyway they’ve all signed-up with chaps down the road.

I had hoped that BA City Flyer would have made a real go of it, but they appear to be losing interest.

The few remaining regionals seem to be getting more and more shambolic. The airport needs a based known name and some exciting new destinations to add a bit of fizz, the choice of routes is getting a bit tedious to say the least.

Southampton, a fabulous little airport, all dressed-up and nowhere to go!

[RW20]

I know that it’s still early days, but it’s beginning to look like EZY are quite happy to make a bit of money on the side by operating a few flights from SOU when they feel nothing more lucrative is available.

One would like to say time to pin some hopes on someone else, but there simply too many options are there?

Ryanair are big ‘no-no’ with their lumbering 738s, as are Tui and Jet2 - and anyway they’ve all signed-up with chaps down the road.

I had hoped that BA City Flyer would have made a real go of it, but they appear to be losing interest.

The few remaining regionals seem to be getting more and more shambolic. The airport needs a based known name for and some exciting new destinations to add a bit of fizz, the choice of routes is getting a bit tedious to say the least.

Southampton, a fabulous little airport, all dressed-up and nowhere to go!
​​​Its difficult to see who could base an operation to new destinations.

[GeorgeNTravels]

​​​​​​If Pax numbers are good on the GLA route then surely 2x weekly seems very light, especially now Loganair have discontinued there service?
Looks like the GLA days and times are a carbon copy of W23/24.

It was June 8th when easyJet made their frequency changes for W23/24, I suspect a similar date this year and would be surprised if SOU didn't benefit.

It should also be pointed out that in W23/24 EZY went from 5 to 4 based units at Glasgow. Given this summer they have 6 based units I would be surprised to see them remove 2 based units at GLA for W24/25.

All 4 aircraft are currently utilised at GLA for the winter, but the new NBE route is still to go on sale for winter, as it was announced as year round, i suspect therefore there is an entire based units worth of flight to be loaded at GLA

[rog747]

​​​Its difficult to see who could base an operation to new destinations.

Indeed, and IMO, it could only be Easyjet UK, if they eventually choose to start up at SOU as a proper Base (with a similar model like they have successfully done twice now at SEN).

It was Ryanair coming (muscling) into SEN, and then Covid that killed, not just EZY, but also almost killed off SEN Airport in its entirety.
Thankfully SEN is now slowly bouncing back (as long as RYR stay away).


BACF sadly began its startup at SOU right in the middle of the Pandemic and was then subject to the ridiculous stop-start UK Govt travel restrictions, and thus BA never really had a chance to recover its stature., nor IMO did they try.
So many of their planned routes never even saw their first Pax, NCE BER FLR to name a few, were routes that were canned.
JMK ALC SZG and IBZ did not last long.

BA's Press Release back in DEC 2020:
Under a new seasonal agreement with Southampton Airport, the airline will operate flights each weekend commencing 1 May to 31 October 2021.
BA CityFlyer will fly from Southampton to: AGP (Malaga), FLR (Florence), FAO (Faro), JMK (Mykonos), IBZ (Ibiza), PMI (Palma de Mallorca), EGC (Bergerac Dordogne Périgord), LIG (Limoges–Bellegarde), NCE (Nice Côte d'Azur), EDI (Edinburgh), DUB (Dublin) BER (Berlin), plus SZG Salzburg and CMF Chambery in the winter.
Club Europe and Avios Rewards are available on all flights, and SOU Airport boasts a Business Class Spitfire Lounge.
'ends...

Alicante (ALC) was added for summer 2022, but Salzburg which was planned to also fly during the summer, got canned.

All we have now for this summer with BACF, is PMI AGP FAO and Bergerac, plus a couple of weekly PMI charters for TUI Holidays.

[stewyb]

Good news as it seems BA are back for S25 with both Bergerac and Palma bookable via the app from mid May.

[SWBKCB]

Looks like the GLA days and times are a carbon copy of W23/24.

It was June 8th when easyJet made their frequency changes for W23/24, I suspect a similar date this year and would be surprised if SOU didn't benefit.

It should also be pointed out that in W23/24 EZY went from 5 to 4 based units at Glasgow. Given this summer they have 6 based units I would be surprised to see them remove 2 based units at GLA for W24/25.

All 4 aircraft are currently utilised at GLA for the winter, but the new NBE route is still to go on sale for winter, as it was announced as year round, i suspect therefore there is an entire based units worth of flight to be loaded at GLA

Thanks GNT for the sensible comments. Agree it is way too early to assess what EZY will do yet.

CFE have a habit of moving their SAT/SUN flying around during the LCY down period - I don't think they were ever a long term prospect from SOU other than in this capacity.

[LTNman]

https://www.eastleighnews.co.uk/2024/05/airport-owners-weigh-up-sale/

[cavokblues]

Considering all three airports (Southampton, Glasgow and Aberdeen) are currently below their 2014 pax levels, I don't think they can expect anything like the £1bn they paid for it a decade ago.

[Petersfield]

Good luck U2 sorting out the PMI mess tonight

[clearlysid]

May I ask what happened?

[clearlysid]

Oh wait yeh I see now, left PMI very late and going to LGW, eek

[LTNman]

The best bit is that no onward transport was provided to Southampton from Gatwick and the return out of Southampton was cancelled. A good start for the half term break. This is always going to be an issue for part time airports.

[Stevooo]

Didn’t leave Gatwick until 1:40am for the return flight to Palma so not a surprise it was cancelled and rerouted via Gatwick.
I am assuming the passengers were bused to Gatwick. If so at least they still got to their destination

[rog747]

Brilliant start to the first week of the new summer season - NOT LOL!

Note to self - Do not book an inbound flight due back very late into both SOU or BOH.....

[LTNman]

I am assuming the passengers were bused to Gatwick. If so at least they still got to their destination

I don’t think so

https://www.easyjet.com/en/flight-tracker/EJU7292?fd=2024-05-23

We’re sorry that your flight has been cancelled.
This is because the safety of you and our crew is our highest priority and a technical issue with the aircraft could not be resolved.
We understand that this will be disappointing news and we want to make it as easy as possible for you to make new plans, so here’s everything you need to know about what to do next.
What happens now?
We’ve got three options available for you – please have a look at them and choose the one that suits you best. To select one, please click on the orange button here on Flight Tracker, or log into your booking on our website or via the easyJet app.

1. Switch to another flight for free
2. Choose a voucher for the full value of your ticket.
3. Request a refund.


This is the problem when passengers don’t book a package holiday, as they will still have to pay for the accommodation.

inbound
https://www.easyjet.com/en/flight-tracker/EJU7291?fd=2024-05-23

Your flight will now be operating into London Gatwick as Southampton airport will be closed once you arrive


We're really sorry we've been unable to arrange transport to Southampton for you this evening.
​​​​​​​

[Pain in the R's]

1. Switch to another flight for free


No flights now until Monday from SOU. Suddenly the appeal of flying from the local airport has less appeal. Unknowingly the passengers made a poor choice as they could have been on the beach now if they had flown from Gatwick. No doubt they will think twice in the future.

[SWBKCB]

Eastern have cancelled the Paris flight again. Absolutely ridiculous excuse for a business.

Blue Islands also regularly cancelling flights lately. I would be surprised if the SOU routes are not their most popular so why they are cancelling flights from there and still flying to the likes of East Midlands, Exeter and Dublin is beyond me.

I cannot recall seeing any of the Easy flights cancelled from SOU. Bring them on I say. There was a time when regional airlines went the extra mile to keep your business but can’t say that anymore.

SOU bashing or bringing some balance to the discussion? All airports and airlines have their strengths and weaknesses. Yes, small airports are nice and easy to get through but offer limited choice of flights which can bite when your flight gets cancelled.

Really bad timing for SOU and EZY.

[Alteagod]

In fairness Emerald are also having a hell of a time with the ATR. Seems to be an industry wide issue with parts supply's for these aircraft

[Rivet Joint]

Let the SOU bashing begin. This could and does happen from time to time at many regional airports around the U.K. but let’s give SOU a bloody good kicking whilst we’re at it!

I’ve reported the posts to the mods so hopefully they will be removed. It’s very clear what posts are constructive and which have been made to generate hate. Imagine getting joy from making people angry? The genuine people on here need to start reporting posts that are not constructive criticism. Take note of the fact they come from the same handful of posters every time as well.

SOU bashing or bringing some balance to the discussion? All airports and airlines have their strengths and weaknesses. Yes, small airports are nice and easy to get through but offer limited choice of flights which can bite when your flight gets cancelled.

Really bad timing for SOU and EZY.

A technical problem with an aircraft is the airports problem? For like the 5th time let me post this:

ORY - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
NTE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:30
AMS - last based EJU flight lands at 22:35
BCN - last based EJU flight lands at 22:50
NCE - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
NAP - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
BER - last based EJU flight lands at 22:55
LYS - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BOD - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
OPO - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
BSL - last based EJU flight lands at 23:05
GVA - last based EJU flight lands at 23:10
CDG - last based EJU flight lands at 23:25

If the flight was to any of the above airports it would also have had to divert. I wonder how many flights to the above airports have had to divert just in the last month? Are you lot on the threads for those airports bashing the airports that it’s their fault a plane with a technical fault has led to a diversion? Are AMS, CDG etc small airports? Your prejudices are clear to see.

Personally I don’t think any airports should be open after 12am and clearly there are moves towards this way of thinking as seen at other airports restricting flying. Even Heathrow effectively shuts at 11:30pm.

[S.o.S.]

It is just as well that SouthernAlliance deleted his own post. Really crass comment. Leave the nastiness to the UK newspapers.

[SotonFlightpath]

As far as I am aware, the situation at SOU is not as bad as most people imagine and shouldn't preclude a low-cost based operator in the future. The answer lies in the hands of the airport because, unless I am wrong (and I may well be!), the night period is designated as being from 23:00 to 06:00, or to 07:30 on Sunday mornings. The airport is permitted to operate 10 scheduled night flights per month, but not more than 100 in any 12 month period.
So therefore, it is up to the airport management to ensure that provision is made for a skeleton staff to be on-site to cope with these situations as and when they occur. Paying overtime/drafting people in occasionally at short notice must surely be better in the long-term than the reputational damage caused by a diversion.
If 175 passengers share their story of the horrendous nightmare of trying to get back to their car at SOU's car park from Gatwick in the wee small hours to a dozen or more friends/relatives/colleagues, with those disrupted on the beginning of their journeys doing likewise, those people will also say 'don't book from Southampton, a friend of mine did that and they were stranded at Gatwick in the middle of the night'.
I had exactly this experience in 2018 flying into SOU on a very late BE operated flight from Skiathos, we were all set to divert to Exeter but at the last minute the decision was taken to allow landing at Southampton at around 00.45. I appreciate that a lot of people had to stay on to deal with the flight, control tower, ramp staff, fire cover, baggage handlers, security, border enforcement, long-stay car park bus driver to name but a few, but the goodwill generated went a long way.
It may be on this occasion that EZY needed to divert to Gatwick and the diversion was unavoidable, but SOU really needs to go all-out to show a positive 'can-do' attitude and look after its airline customers and their passengers. The airport has such amazing potential.

[LTNman]

The airport is permitted to operate 10 scheduled night flights per month, but not more than 100 in any 12 month period.


That’s fine and dandy but the airport needs staff including fire cover who agree to work on and at what cost to the airport that would also include standby payments. Cheapest option is to say too late mate, should have got here earlier.

Personally I don’t think any airports should be open after 12am and clearly there are moves towards this way of thinking as seen at other airports restricting flying. Even Heathrow effectively shuts at 11:30pm.


Yep I agree.

[Rivet Joint]

As far as I am aware, the situation at SOU is not as bad as most people imagine and shouldn't preclude a low-cost based operator in the future. The answer lies in the hands of the airport because, unless I am wrong (and I may well be!), the night period is designated as being from 23:00 to 06:00, or to 07:30 on Sunday mornings. The airport is permitted to operate 10 scheduled night flights per month, but not more than 100 in any 12 month period.
So therefore, it is up to the airport management to ensure that provision is made for a skeleton staff to be on-site to cope with these situations as and when they occur. Paying overtime/drafting people in occasionally at short notice must surely be better in the long-term than the reputational damage caused by a diversion.
If 175 passengers share their story of the horrendous nightmare of trying to get back to their car at SOU's car park from Gatwick in the wee small hours to a dozen or more friends/relatives/colleagues, with those disrupted on the beginning of their journeys doing likewise, those people will also say 'don't book from Southampton, a friend of mine did that and they were stranded at Gatwick in the middle of the night'.
I had exactly this experience in 2018 flying into SOU on a very late BE operated flight from Skiathos, we were all set to divert to Exeter but at the last minute the decision was taken to allow landing at Southampton at around 00.45. I appreciate that a lot of people had to stay on to deal with the flight, control tower, ramp staff, fire cover, baggage handlers, security, border enforcement, long-stay car park bus driver to name but a few, but the goodwill generated went a long way.
It may be on this occasion that EZY needed to divert to Gatwick and the diversion was unavoidable, but SOU really needs to go all-out to show a positive 'can-do' attitude and look after its airline customers and their passengers. The airport has such amazing potential.

It’s not most people it’s a small selection of people from other threads who get a kick out of winding other people up. Then other well meaning posters engage in the negative debate unbeknown to them it was started by someone with bad intentions and this thread becomes all doom and gloom again. You are not helping taking their bait. The only way to keep this thread on track is to ignore them otherwise it will descend into a toxic slanging match again. Obviously saying stuff like SOU is a part time airport is not a sensible or constructive thing to say. I have reported these people and hopefully action will be taken against them. There is no place for bullying in any walk of life.

SOU is doing just fine and its operating hours are in line with lots of big airports as I have listed numerous times. That can be put to bed.

[tallaonejuliet]

It’s not most people it’s a small selection of people from other threads who get a kick out of winding other people up. .

Statement of the year so far, I'm still removing cornflakes from my screen....

[SKOJB]

The best bit is that no onward transport was provided to Southampton from Gatwick and the return out of Southampton was cancelled. A good start for the half term break. This is always going to be an issue for part time airports.

If only all part time airports had 30 departures daily and 1m pax annually :ok:

[LTNman]

Obviously saying stuff like SOU is a part time airport is not a sensible or constructive thing to say.


It’s not a criticism, it’s a fact. I wish my local airport had SOU operating hours so I would say the SOU balance is about right. The downside are diversions due to late arrivals.

[andymartin]

If only all part time airports had 30 departures daily and 1m pax annually :ok:
Even better if they actually made a profit

[Irishshamrock]

Why was the BA arrival from Bergerac and departure to Palma cancelled today?

[Sotonsean]

It’s not a criticism, it’s a fact. I wish my local airport had SOU operating hours so I would say the SOU balance is about right. The downside are diversions due to late arrivals.

On your profile your occupation is listed as 'keeping my head down'.

Have you changed your occupation by any chance 🤔

[LTNman]

Why was the BA arrival from Bergerac and departure to Palma cancelled today?

Are you sure you have the right airport thread as there were no flights to cancel?

[rog747]

Are you sure you have the right airport thread as there were no flights to cancel?

BACF over the weekend from SOU has flown to/from Palma, Faro, Malaga and Bergerac,
plus also a Palma charter BA4507 for TUI Holidays.

There is a Palma cancellation this morning. BA2903.
No idea why, sorry.

[LTNman]

Ahh, I was only thinking Easyjet. Thanks for the reminder about BA who don’t give a reason for the cancellation.

i hope no one from the cancelled Easyjet flight had rebooked on this one.

[rog747]

Ahh, I was only thinking Easyjet. Thanks for the reminder about BA who don’t give a reason.

EasyJet have a Belfast International and a Glasgow flying today, and both also flew same yesterday.
Tonight is from/to Alicante.
Palma & Glasgow tomorrow.

Most flights are on the A319, but some were A320.

[MARKEYD]

The aircraft operating the BA Palma service is still
AOG in Bergerac from yesterday
Its now leaving Bergerac for SOU at 11am then positioning empty back to LCY

[rog747]

The aircraft operating the BA Palma service is still
AOG in Bergerac from yesterday


No idea of the booked PMI load but guess many folk will be looking at EZY from SOU tomorrow, seats are very £££ at £398 each one/way, but BACF will have to pay for that plus HOTAC for tonight too.
From BOH EXT and BRS > today and Monday nothing available...
But hey, it's Whitsun Hols.
From LGW > nothing today, there are seats tomorrow on EZY and BA, and from LHR tomorrow on BA

Edit: I was quite surprised BACF had no spare rescue plane to fly in to SOU for the Palma this morning, but of course LCY base is closed for a time on SAT and SUN. Hey Ho.

[MARKEYD]

BA won’t pay for EZY as no agreement with the airline , Swissport at SOU will tell them to go on the App and re book via various options or try and speak to the “ next available agent “
most likely BA from LGW & LHR then claim back any transport , hotels etc
This was cancelled last night so most people would have received an email and told not to go to the airport

[rog747]

You can rebook yourself on EZY SOU to Palma and send the bill into BA -
They will pay, plus cover any HOTAC, meal and transport costs you may have suffered.

Correct, they won't rebook you on EZY, but they will pay up if you make your own arrangements.
Plus of course the EU 261 Compo kicks in too.

[SKOJB]

You can rebook yourself on EZY SOU to Palma and send the bill into BA -
They will pay, plus cover any HOTAC, meal and transport costs you may have suffered.

Correct, they won't rebook you on EZY, but they will pay up if you make your own arrangements.
Plus of course the EU 261 Compo kicks in too.

Problem being flights on easyjet PMI are selling well and again sold out for Mondays departure

[stewyb]

Thursdays first easyJet to FAO went out near on full (A320) and both PMI and ALC continue with strong loads. Hoping for some increased capacity next summer.

[DC3 Dave]

Thursdays first easyJet to FAO went out near on full (A320) and both PMI and ALC continue with strong loads. Hoping for some increased capacity next summer.

Hope so, but will be reliant on away based aircraft until the ownership of the airport is settled one way or another. If EZY plan to base aircraft at SOU in the future then they will continue to work on the project, but sign on the dotted line? No chance given the current uncertainty IMO.

[SWBKCB]

Thursdays first easyJet to FAO went out near on full (A320) and both PMI and ALC continue with strong loads. Hoping for some increased capacity next summer.

Is it half-term in the south - if so you'd expect good loads.

[Albert Hall]

There’s a rather more fundamental issue with airfield performance limitations standing in the way of growth ahead of any worries about operating hours.

[DC3 Dave]

Back in the Premier League. Loadsa charters.

[stewyb]

Congratulations to the Saints, absolutely brilliant and a few charters next season!

[Rivet Joint]

Tonight’s flight to Alicante cancelled. Ok even I’m starting to get concerned about this now. It’s the third flight in a week where no doubt people have had their holidays ruined. Anyone know why this flight didn’t run?

[stewyb]

Tonight’s flight to Alicante cancelled. Ok even I’m starting to get concerned about this now. It’s the third flight in a week where no doubt people have had their holidays ruined. Anyone know why this flight didn’t run?

Another bird strike, departs 1200 tomorrow

[Rivet Joint]

Another bird strike, departs 1200 tomorrow

Ah, nothing you can do about that then. Thanks for confirming. Glad they will still be making it to their destination.