British Airways Future Pilot Programme.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

@Luke_Stern

I'm not quite clear whether you're meaning one 6 year period or various short periods adding up to 6 years. Maybe a couple of things worth thinking about are that firstly you'd likely be aiming to highlight productive, interesting activities you managed to do during the time 'off' and, secondly, that you'll certainly need some pretty good corroborative references to show you were doing what you say you were doing and in the place(s) you were doing them. I'd think that second point is pretty vital when it comes to security.

Considering the economic conditions over the last few years it can't be uncommon or unexpected for applicants to have periods of unemployment (I had a few months of unemployment after university, most of my classmates did, although having claimed jobseekers it did allow it to be corroborated). A solid 6 year gap does of course sound more difficult to shed in a positive light than an accumulated period of 6 years over a longer time frame, but there's a lot more to a CV than just job experience, as long as you can provide context for the gaps.

All you can really do is put in the application and try and highlight the positive aspects. The fact that you started a business and it didn't fold within the first 12 months is a pretty obvious one, most others seem to!

Best of luck. :)

[LM1996]

Hi,

I am a new poster and hope to apply to the FPP when it opens again this year and I have a question about the entry requirements. It states that you need BBC at A levels, but I am currently studying for my A levels and will receive my results in August 2014 and so didn't know whether that would rule me out from applying this year even though my predictions exceed the requirements?

Thanks

[planedrive]

@LM1996.

If you read the requirements what does it say? Predicted BBC or BBC at A Level. After that you should be able to answer your own question.

[Jask99]

@LM1996

Last year I was in the same position as you appear to be, in year 13/ upper sixth applying for the FPP. When it came to filling out my details however, there was no option for predicted grades. I queried this by emailing BA and they told me I must already have the grades upon applying, and so I had to withdraw my application. As they said to me, this isn't what you want to hear I'm afraid, but I would still apply this year with this in mind if I were in your position, just in case the rules have changed. I hope this helps.

[king of kong]

Anyone knows wether BA will re-open FPP this year?
I've googled and "ppruned" the subject enough and not found anything relevant. But I still read comments in this thread of people that seem very sure it WILL and there will be a new application period.
Thanks!

[LM1996]

Thank you for your reply, I suppose now I should wait and see if there are changes to the requirements when the application process opens again this year. I assume you will be applying this year for the FPP and wish you luck.

[planedrive]

@King of Kong,

Both CTC and Oxford seemed almost 100% confident that the BAFPP would open again, but they hadn't any news on when it would and if it did, what sort of numbers the intake would be. With the first intake already being placed on other duties after their training for an unknown period it may be later rather than sooner, but as with everything in aviation, who knows?

[EZY_FR]

Im fairly certain BA said in their Q&A session that they intend to run the programme for the foreseeable future, but I wouldnt put a lot of water in that as you never know what will happen.

[G-F0RC3]

BA FPP website says:

You will need:

5 GCSEs at Grade C or above, including English Language, Mathematics and a Science (single or double award), excluding General Studies.

PLUS

either 3 A-Levels at Grades BBC or above, excluding General Studies.
or an Honours Degree at 2:2 (or higher) or a pass (or above) in a higher degree such as MSc, MA, MPhil, DPhil, PhD, MBA

If you are only predicted to get the above, then that's not the same thing as actually having the above. The question has been asked before, and the answer is that BA doesn't accept predicted grades.

But worry not, the BA FPP will run this year and for at least the next couple of years beyond that. Clearly this cannot be 100% guaranteed (nothing can be - particularly in this industry), but all the evidence suggests it:

1) IAG's growth strategy hasn't changed from a few years ago - they are still expanding their fleet and still foresee a need for more pilots in the future.
2) BA originally suggested that they'd be recruiting on the FPP at least until 2016, and haven't since suggested otherwise.
3) All the FTO's involved are pretty certain that the FPP is going to continue as originally planned.
4) All the BA staff I've spoken to (including some very senior captains), have suggested that they know of no reason why the FPP would not continue as originally planned.

Hope it's helpful. :)

[LM1996]

Thanks you @G-F0RC3, really helpful information I suppose I was just hoping that it would be similar to universities as they state in requirements pages, for example, AAB at A Level but you would apply before you achieve those grades.

[chocsaway08]

Does anybody know, either from previous experience or otherwise, whether BA achknowledge Level 4 qualifications such as HNC? A bit of background is that I served an apprenticeship with a very very well known aerospace engine macufacturer and subsequently moved up the ranks to programme manager. I currently hold a HNC, which is classed as over and above A-Levels and I am in my final year of a Honours degree which has been taken part-time. My CV reads extremely well but the qualification requirements look very regimented on the website.

[Fostex]

If you are committed, why not take another A-level or re-sit the ones you have done?

Competition is extremely high and it is important to stand out. Not only that, the commitment to do the above will no doubt impress the interviewers who are not only looking for academic prowess, but strong personal drive and life skills as well.

[yanny]

FlyVeryHigh - Why don't you just finish your degree? As long as your GSCEs are suitable and you get above a 2:2, you're fine.

[chocsaway08]

Essentially i do not wish to undertake qualifications that i already academically exceed. I am thinking of using the NARIC awarding body to prove that the HNC is beyond A-Levels, i was just wondering if anyone had encountered this previously and the subsequent judgement from BA?

[G-F0RC3]

chocsaway08: BA do accept equivalent qualifications to those listed, but one HNC on its own would not be enough. It's quite complicated, but one HNC is worth roughly as many UCAS points as an A at Advanced Higher, which is 130. That's the equivalent of 2 Bs at Higher.

However, when you've passed your degree you should exceed the minimum entry requirements, and in any case your best bet would be to finish your degree off anyway in my opinion.

tennisten: There needs to be some method of differentiating applicants without having to employ someone to look at each one individually (it would take too long and cost too much money). On average, those with better A-Levels will outperform those with poorer A-Levels. Clearly this might miss some talented individuals, but those individuals can still go and get better A-Levels if they want to.

But it's not just about doing extremely well in the COMPASS tests. If that's all there was to it then selection wouldn't require academic qualifications. The acedamic requirements are there to demonstrate that you can work on a range of subjects at the same time and work hard for an extended period - because training to become a pilot is about working hard as well as having the aptitude. In other words, they could take on the most intelligent people in the country (who would probably perform extremely well in the COMPASS tests), but they might all fail the course because they can't handle the workload. This - incidentally - is also the reason why the range of A-Levels is not so important, although Maths and Physics will clearly be advantageous.

FlyVeryHigh: What's wrong with English, Psychology and Religion as subjects? They might not be as relevant to the mechanical workings of an aircraft, but there is so much more to being a pilot than that. BA are looking for well-rounded individuals who value different cultures and religions; so religion as a subject can really enhance your application. And a knowledge of psychology is also very helpful and relevant; and indeed if you look at many AAIB or NTSB accident reports you'll see how psychology can (and does) often play a factor in human error.

[EZY_FR]

tenniston: How do you know you were above the BA requirements?

[BARKINGMAD]

"What I find difficult to take on board, is that how you can have BBC in English, Psychology and Religion and be eligible, although my a-levels are all science and design based. Very frustrating."

Back in the golden days of Hamble, Perth and Oxford, my application failed as my high-grade 'A' levels in Physics and Geometrical/Engineering Drawing were not stated as adequate. The latter was not considered suitable, though for the last 42 years as a professional pilot I have spent my time doing something connected with Physics and studying aircrafts' innards and kicking the outsides on my walkaround.

Sad to know that nothing changes and an 'A' level in History or Underwater Basket-Weaving is more relevant according to the HR wallahs?

As you battle your way through the recruitment struggle, just remember the permanent disconnect between fact/logic/reasoning when it comes to aviation.

Good luck in your efforts to get in (anywhere). It took me 4 applications over 30 years to temporarily wear the BA uniform, other companies may take a more practical and pragmatic view as to what makes a suitable candidate. :)

[G-F0RC3]

Read above tennisten. There's no point in whining about it, it's done as it is for a good reason. There's more to training to become a pilot than simply having the aptitude. If you want it badly enough and don't have the entry requirements then go and get the entry requirements!

Edit: ...and by the way, you've now suggested several examples which you think support your argument. But if you had a look at the big picture you'd realise that on average people with better A-Levels are better-prepared to handle the workload required of training to become a pilot. Why wouldn't BA employ such a system - just like universities do? It's the only fair and objective way to do it whether it suits you or not.

[G-F0RC3]

Because if you think about it, if you cannot achieve BBC at A-Level (which isn't all that difficult) then how can BA be sure you'll be able to learn the ATPL theory to a high enough standard?

[chocsaway08]

Sorry G-Force but must disagree here. "But if you had a look at the big picture you'd realise that on average people with better A-Levels are better-prepared to handle the workload required of training to become a pilot." I received a DD in my HNC whilst managing a £2m dev project for my employers. Again my workload has only managed to increase whilst undertaking my degree. The vast majority of people I have encountered whilst studying "part-time" make far greater sacrifices than the average student, with the subsequent failure consequences being far greater. The argument that A-level studying presents a vastly higher workload than that of a HNC WHILST employed is definitely invalid in my eyes. Work = 40 hours per week. Study = 12 hours per week. Coursework and essays = 8 hours per week.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Chocs, are you implying that it's not possible to work full time and do well in further or higher education? Thousands of people every year work full time in professional roles whilst still managing to achieve merits and distinctions at postgraduate level, or firsts and upper seconds at undergrad whilst studying on the side. Not easy, of course, but it's not exactly uncommon.

Everyone who makes it through to the final stages of something like the FPP will have done extremely well at the aptitude tests, exams and interviews during the previous rounds, on top of a strong educational background. It's not like anyone's getting through just with good A levels alone, so why wouldn't they look for aptitude and qualifications, not to mention the whole list of other attributes they'll be ticking boxes for on their clipboard sheets. Considering the number of really high quality candidates at the final couple of stages, they're going to be getting it broadly right. Is there a workable system (as far as application numbers go) if they lower the qualifications?

Having an advanced maths, physics or science background will obviously help with some aspects of the training/job but whatever the makeup of your subjects at A level, surely it's more about showing a capacity for learning and managing workload? G-FORC3 is being pretty sensible.

Of course, everyone will always defend their own perspective especially if they, probably quite correctly, think they have the right skills and aptitude. There are different rules for different routes, all you can do is push your efforts towards whichever route you can jump through the requisite hoops for at the time. Some routes are blocked by qualifications, others by finances. Frustrating? Almost certainly!

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Tennisten, you're probably entirely correct. There will be plenty of people who possess all of the skill and aptitude necessary, but fall just short of the qualifications. The problem is, how do you then deal with assessing all of the extra applications that come in needing individual attention because of the reasons why they had a bad A level year? You'd probably need to quadruple the size of the respective HR departments at the FTOs and airlines involved.

It's still not on a par with the US, don't you need at least a 4 year degree to apply to any of their majors?

[chocsaway08]

Mayday, I definitely was not implying that you cannot achieve high grades in part time education the proof of that was the DD (Distinction, Distinction). What i was arguing is that the workload is higher than that of A-Levels and we should not be discriminated against for the reason that we don't possess A-Levels. I understand the necessity to screen candidates in a certain way and my original question back on page 53 was along the lines of is it acceptable to hold any other type of qualification and still be considered? G-Force gave a good answer but there has not really been anything definitive from a past applicant that has had this kind of issue. Any enlightenment on the subject rather than bias towards one or another type of educational background would be appreciated.

[G-F0RC3]

tennisten: "Also what makes you think someone with better A Levels will have a greater capacity to fly an aircraft? After all that's what this is all about, not just the theory..."

In certain circumstances you may be correct, but my points were average based - and I stand by them. Who do I think are more likely to make better candidates, a group with AAA at A-Level or a group (otherwise similar) with BCC? Well I'd put my money on on the AAA group. BA have said many times they are looking for the best candidates; and frankly the best candidates are unlikely to be those who weren't able to acquire BBC at A-Level. Clearly there may be the odd exception, but I'd be willing to bet that it would be such a small number of people that it wouldn't be worth BA's time to devise a system to find them. Remember, BA is a business.

But to suggest that it's "all" about flying an aircraft sorely misses the fact that that's really only a part of it. An important part, but only part of it nonetheless. You might be the best at controlling an aircraft, for instance, but if you have to deal with an unruly passenger - you might not have a clue. Therefore, the best candidates (and remember, BA are looking for the best), are more likely to be those who are well-rounded with a bit of life experience, good qualifications and an aptitude for flying.

[Bealzebub]

As stated before, I stupidly can't apply due to A Levels, which I still believe is an insane way of predicting how well you'll perform as a pilot... Another guy who was on my assessment had 3 A Levels at A grade and he failed the assessment for the 2nd time... Whereas I passed first time with high scores... It's a joke!!!

It is neither insane nor a joke. From the many thousands who will apply, the applications need to be whittled down to a small manageable number who will be selected for interview. Then from that group, an even smaller percentage are likely to be successful. Within the interview group will be many potentially good pilots who will almost certainly also perform very well as pilots at each stage of their training. Different airlines will apply their own set of qualifying criteria as part of the whittling down (selection) process.

Many airlines, and you can be sure British airways is one of them, regard pilot recruitment as a resource from which they will draw future trainers and managers. Not only do they want to reduce the attrition risk in their own training process, but they look for skills that go broader than simply "flying a plane." Educational achievements in themselves are regarded as a valid indicator to the amount of effort and commitment that an individual has already shown in pursuit of their own betterment. It may not be foolproof, but it has a tried and trusted track record.

Yes, there may well be potentially good applicants excluded from this process, but the methodology doesn't cause the company to suffer any lack of quality or quantity in the numbers that do qualify. Consequently your lack of qualification doesn't affect them at all. Companies that regard themselves as the pinnacle players, expect to attract applicants that reflect that perceived status. Once again, there is no shortage of such applicants.

The education requirement they set does NOT give an indication as to how well someone will perform in the selection process.. It's sad really...

Oh, but it does! The educational achievement requirements they set, eliminate a large swathe of people who will not get to the next stage of the application process. At each stage, the applicants performance will be assessed, and a further whittling down process will occur. By the end of the process the company expects to have the best people to put forward on the limited number of courses on offer. Each stage of the process will be instrumental at arriving at a conclusion that the company wants.

[G-F0RC3]

tennisten: "You need to open your eyes a bit. It isn't that some people can't achieve BBC at A Level, but because at that point in their life they didn't necessarily have the opportunity to do so."

By the way, my eyes are wide open to the above. Indeed I fell very much into the above category just a couple of years ago. Was working full time, never stayed on at school, only fairly good Standard Grades (equiv GCSE in Scotland), but nothing spectacular. Was it ever due to a lack of ability? No, it was due to coming from a low income background and never having had the opportunity. So I went back to "school" (while working full time and learning to fly) and did five Highers. Now I have a PPL (like you) and good enough Higher grades to get onto a medical degree (if I wanted to). So it can be done, you've just got to want it badly enough and work hard. :ok:

[Cesc_]

While we're on the topic of grades does anyone know whether the 'BBC' can be in the form of UCAS points, as mine of A*BD. I did email BA but didn't really get a definite answer.

[chocsaway08]

Good luck with a definitive answer here Cesc...

[Groundloop]

If we start considering UCAS points a DD in an HNC is 240 points. BBC at A-level is 280 points. Therefore a DD in an HNC does not meet the target.

[G-F0RC3]

If you have equivalent academic qualifications then you will be asked to provide a Letter of Comparability from UK NARIC before attending your first selection day. The Scottish educational qualification equivalents are detailed in the FAQ page. [my emphasis]

The above from the BA FPP website suggests that equivalent qualifications are acceptable. What's considered equivalent isn't as clear, but in any case the emboldened above implies that (irrespective of how good your equivalent qualifications are) you're still required to provide a letter of comparability from UK NARIC. So my advice would be to contact UK NARIC to a) establish if your qualifications are equivalent, and b) to get a letter stating that.

Note that you cannot get a definitive answer on here as even if someone from your positions have previously applied, the rules might change this time around. And someone like me - who is merely giving my best understanding of the situation based on the evidence we have - obviously cannot give a guarantee. I certainly wouldn't be taking someone's word for it on a forum anyway, as it's you guys who will be disapointed at the end of the day if we're wrong.

Hope it's helpful. :)

[chocsaway08]

Very helpful. Thanks G

[momo95]

The really annoying thing for me is that I have an Irish leaving certificate, however this qualification is terribly underestimated in the UK. I got a total of 450 pts (considered very high in Ireland), the UCAS equivalent is 297 pts. But for some reason after having applied to Uni in the UK for aerospace eng. while hoping to get on a pilot programme in the meantime, I was told I would have to do a foundation year due to my grades (despite Bs in maths and physics) !!!! Need i say i was furious.

Now I have seen the english A-level maths and physics exams and being totally honest with myself, there is absolutely no difference between them and the LC.
I have also spoken to many teachers who agree.

Now my point is that I am at a huge disadvantage because of this unfair system. Because say if I apply to BA and they look at my grades, then also discover I was made do a foundation year. Theyre gonna look to the fdn year and Will most definitely lose all interest in me based on me doing it. Clearly this is going to be one hell of a putoff for BA and my application will be out the window simply because the LC exams are wrongly deemed to not be to A level standard. I also forgot to add that in ireland we do 7 a-levels.

Now it ain't BA's fault that UCAS or NARIC don't value the LC enough, but my point is also that raising the educational bar so high gets rid of many perfectly competent applicants who (like me) are at a total disadvantage simply because of their type of exams done. Meaning that despite excellent grades, some people are out of the race before the applications even open. I mean the LC were the highest level of exams I could do, its not as though i opted out of A-levels.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Momo95, where in the UK have you been looking? Can't speak for England or Wales, but Scottish universities do accept and understand the Irish Leaving Certificate. Certainly Glasgow and Strathclyde (both have very good aeronautical or aeromechanical engineering courses) accept students with Irish qualifications, although you would need an A at both Maths and Physics, with a minimum of AAAB (Strathclyde) or AAAA (Glasgow) (Glasgow will possibly accept AAABB if either of Maths or Physics is a B, although the other must be an A). Perhaps the foundation year is being offered because of the B grades in both subjects? For Scottish applicants applying with highers, they'd make anyone with B's in Maths and Physics do advanced highers before accepting them, or a foundation course. I'd imagine it'd be the same with the ILC.

*Edited to stress that those are minimum requirements and don't guarantee a place, particularly if they can fill the course with students with 5 or 6 A grades.

As far as comparing ILC to A level, one ILC exam counts as 2/3 of an A level, according to the National Qualifications Authority of Ireland.

Incidentally, as an Irish citizen, you also wouldn't pay any fees north of the border.

Best of luck. :)

[momo95]

Thanks for the reply mayday. I understand what you were saying and it is true in Scotland. But my main issue is with how the exam is viewed in england as that is where I had to come to. Understandably BA will say to themselves if he can't even go straight onto year 1 at uni, then how can we trust him to complete ATPL theory to our desired level ?. It makes perfect sense, and that is why I am saying that BA should consider lowering the educational bar slightly lower to accomodate for people who are at an unfair advantage due to the type of exams they had to sit.

Also I would have still paid full price in Scotland as I am a UK (england) citizen.

[sujith777340]

Hello guys,
Do BA accepts Indian citizens into their BAFPP? And how much success rate one would expect Indian national in to BAFPP? And Do anyone know any Indians successfully entered in BAFPP in previous years..all answers are appreciated....thanks and cheers...

[Bealzebub]

You must hold a valid passport, have the indefinite right to live and work in the UK, with the ability to travel worldwide without restriction.

If you hold a valid passport, have the indefinite right to live and work in the UK, with the ability to travel worldwide without restriction, that particular point shouldn't be a hurdle.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Momo95, I'm not sure why you think you wouldn't be eligible to apply? BA are asking for the equivalent of A levels at BBC or Scottish highers at BBBB. Your 297 UCAS points is above the BBC equivalent, which would be 280 points. If you can provide a NARIC statement to that effect then it should at least allow you to apply. (ie. The type of exams you sit are not a hurdle, it's only the grades or their equivalent, which aren't worked out by BA but by the relevant qualifications authorities, who then work out how different exams systems compare. Basically, either you have the BBC A level equivalent or you don't...if you don't, then you need a 2:2 or a postgrad. Pretty straightforward!)

You can work out UCAS equivalents here: Tariff Tables | UCAS | UCAS Tariff Table & UCAS Tariff Points (http://www.ucas.com/how-it-all-works/explore-your-options/entry-requirements/tariff-tables)

...and get the NARIC stuff here: NARIC - Statement of Comparability (http://ecctis.co.uk/naric/Individuals/Compare%20Qualifications/Statement%20of%20Comparability.aspx)

Obviously any further qualifications are only ever going to be a good thing, but if you'd only just started a degree course you wouldn't be able to put it in your application anyway, as you wouldn't have completed the degree. You could, of course, still talk about it during any subsequent interviews (should you so desire). There will undoubtedly be plenty of applicants who wouldn't be able to walk into an aeronautical engineering degree.

In my current career I've worked with a fair few individuals who required an access or foundation year after not initially having the grades for their desired course; to my mind, it just showed that they were prepared to go the extra mile and spend the extra year to get their qualifications. Whether they'd done access courses or foundations years prior to starting year 1 of their course, it didn't have any bearing on how well they ultimately did in their degree or, for that matter, in their job.

Are you sure you're not being held back in your applications by those B grades, rather than the Irish qualifications? Don't know where you've been applying but every one of the bigger departments seems to want A grades with maths and physics, wherever your did your schooling. Is there anywhere advertising an aerospace/aeronautical engineering course with B/B Maths/Physics as an entry requirement?

That's a bummer about the fee situation. :ugh:

As far as lowering the bar, probably worth a look at Bealzebub's post (#1076) on the previous page.

[momo95]

I thought it was pretty straightforward that My issue wasn't in understanding BA's rules on applying !. My issue was that BA may not look favourably on my application because i've been made do a fdn year.

As for the university it was Kingston and they required 220 pts but said they would only offer me the fdn year. Many others, including brunel and hertfordshire also require below 300.

Lastly, for NARIC, (i have gotten the english BBC in Irish equivalent as grades) but my grades don't exactly match. For example would they take AAABB as being equal to AAAAC ?, being honest i'd be very surprised if they didn't. But while trying not to be too pessimistic, say if they don't, then that means despite me getting 297 pts, because the grades don't exactly match they may say no. That is something which has been discussed on here before (with english alevel and whether BA would accept slight differences) and the only way to find out is to speak to NARIC.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Really don't know precisely how BA would look at it, but I think there's not much point in worrying about something which you wouldn't be explicitly highlighting in the application anyway. If you feel the need to highlight it, fair enough, but it's not like there's not a positive way to look at it. If you were applying for an engineering job then perhaps it'd be different. Best of luck either way.

[Nelson15]

Personally I think it's unlikely that BA will take any negative inference from a foundation year.

To be honest I doubt it's much more than an initial screening. I know that my academic quaifications weren't even brought up other than when my certificates were photocopied on the very first day.

In fact, despite being successful on FPP1, I'd have been ineligible to apply for FPP2 at all due to my bare minimum qualifications and the minimum requirements changing. Go figure!

[Paxi_R6]

The leaving cert is much harder course compared to A-Levels, we do 7 subjects opposed to 3. I prefer the A-Levels because you pick your best three and perform well.

In fairness we do have an advantage over our British counter parts we done SEVEN SUBJECTS which makes it a more intense course, Pilot training isn't easy might look good that we where able do seven subjects! Plus getting good results too :ok:

As for good results I won an award for the school I attended, best results in my leaving cert class ;) not to shabby when I have the chance to bring that up in an interview(If & When ever I bloody get there :ugh: ).

One Question? Why are you looking to go to university in the UK, UL do Aeronautical Engineering and Carlow do Aerospace, plus the additional cost of studying in the UK is madness in my opinion.

Btw the FPP is it definitely opening again this year?

[Nelson15]

How on earth can you compare the difficulty of courses if you've only sat one of them?

It's apparently opening again soon I believe.

[momo95]

I ain't mad and its far from madness looking at it from my circumstances. For the LC i dont understand how in Ireland your best 6 subjects are taken whereas UCAS ask for your best 5. I think it may have something to do with the fact they reckon an LC subject is equal 2/3 of an a-level, and so 5 LC subjects multiplied by 2/3 equals 3 (i.e the number of a-levels usually taken in the uk). So they may believe that makes them equal ? I certainly don't. But then again whether or not it's fair isn't an issue for BA as it ain't their fault.

And yeah, the FPP usually opens in november.

[G-F0RC3]

They've stated that BBC is required at A-Level, or BBBB at Scottish Higher. Well BBC at A-Level is 280 UCAS points, whereas BBBB at Scottish Higher is only 260 UCAS points. They could drop the A-Level requirements to BCC, which would be worth 260 UCAS points, and hence make the requirements equivalent (as far as UCAS are concerned).

But they haven't done that, and I suspect the reason is because the Scottish Highers were a bit of an after thought. Furthermore, if my memory serves me correctly, the Scottish requirements went up from the previous year, so BBBB is actually after a revision upwards.

The above all seems to imply that their requirements are only loosely related to the UCAS standards. Therefore, I wouldn't take those standards as a given one way or the other. Unless you've definitely got the minimum grades they have quoted, the only way to be sure you'll be accepted on initial application is to contact NARIC and get a letter stating that the qualifications are equivalent. We can ponder here all day long, but there isn't enough information to derive a definite answer on the borderline cases. Unfortunately that's just how it is. :\

By the way Mayday, how's the training going? :)

[G-F0RC3]

The foundation degree point earlier seems illogical to me. I'm pretty certain that BA would not look anything but favourably upon you acquiring such - and certainly not negatively. Sure it might demonstrate that your A-Levels (or equivalents) weren't in and of themselves good enough, but your A-Levels (or equivalents) would demonstrate that on their own anyway. In my opinion getting your foundation degree says that you realised you had a problem, and so you commited yourself to finding a solution, which is itself a good quality to demonstrate. As long as you have the minimum entry requirements (equivalent as per a NARIC letter or otherwise), I really don't see that being the reason your application is rejected.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

It was mentioned to me in an IM that the previous year they'd asked for BBBCC at Scottish Higher, which would have been 295 points. It now works out as fewer points, but better performance in each individual exam. It can't all be down to points, though. 4 A grades is 320 points, whereas 5 B grades is 325. Which is better? You could probably argue for either, although realistically if any student was likely to get four A grades, the school would be likely to push them to do five anyway. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent...

As far as training is concerned, haven't started yet! Still, only a few weeks away. Think perhaps the first OAA group might have just started? Can't say about CTC. I'm working my way through a 'Spanish for beginners' course on the iPad! :ok:

[Nelson15]

But they haven't done that, and I suspect the reason is because the Scottish Highers were a bit of an after thought. Furthermore, if my memory serves me correctly, the Scottish requirements went up from the previous year, so BBBB is actually after a revision upwards.

That depends how you look at it. This years were four Highers at BBBB which is 260 UCAS points, whereas last years were five Highers at BBBCC which is 295 points, so you could argue it was a reduction in requirements even though it would have made me ineligible.

It just really goes to show how arbitrary the minimum requirements are in a way, never minding the debate about equivalency of Scottish, Irish and England and Wales examination frameworks.

[Nelson15]

Rats, beaten to it by Mayday.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Nelson, with the amount of criticism for the new 'Curriculum for Excellence', no wonder it's getting confusing. If the teachers don't know what the hell they're supposed to be teaching and how it stacks up against the previous system, good luck to anyone else trying to make sense of it! They'll need to change the minimum requirements to four Eh's and a WTF?! :}

[G-F0RC3]

I have mixed views on the CofE. For primary school kids I have no doubt that it's a massive step in the right direction. The research almost entirely supports that. However, at high school level (particularly Standard Grade +) I'm not convinced that it's such a good idea.

Anyway, to try to keep on topic; I do think the new system will more or less be the same as the old in terms of how many points UCAS suggest each grade is worth (i.e. a 1 at SG will be the same as an A in the new version of SGs, and so on). The more complicated part is comparing grades across borders.

A question that BA should probably look to answer: if BBBB is required then will they accept BBBCC, where the two Cs are considered equal to or better than one B? We see this type of question asked frequently enough in here for it to warrant an answer in their frequently asked questions. :)

[G-F0RC3]

Ah, so it's almost a year after your initial application before you've actually started training on the course. That has been quite a wait Mayday! I'm sure it'll be worth it though. :)

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

The start dates seem to have ranged roughly from within the last month right through until next summer (June is the latest I'm aware of, but I'm not clear on the dates with OAA or CTC). Obviously for some people this will allow them to finish degrees, etc. This worked out nicely for me as my current job is very busy through the summer and much quieter in the winter. That said, being stuck up a mountain in the snow isn't so bad when you're getting paid for it!

Just to be clear, though; neither does anyone get to directly choose a start date, nor can you simply elect to swap. I think this would be entirely at the discretion of the various companies involved and likely under exceptional circumstances. Don't quote me on it, though! There are various opportunities during the recruitment phases to state at which point you would be available to commence training, if successful.

Incidentally, I agree with you about CforE with regard to primary education. Have plenty of teacher friends and it's mostly the high school ones who're complaining. That said, they complained a fair amount before the new system was even suggested. ;)

[G-F0RC3]

Oh so you're going from snow on a mountain to sun and sand - nice swap of climates.

Were the FTE selection days in Dec last time around? And then when was the final day at Waterside? I'm guessing around Feb?

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Last time around the FTE assessment days were in January and the final assessments were in March.

I'm assuming it's going to be somewhat less cold and rainy than Glasgow.

[momo95]

How is the foundation year argument illogical ? A student doesn't do a fdn year out of their own free will in most cases, therefore (as i already mentioned) BA are most likely to look negatively upon it as it is something which I would have been forced to do due to qualification limitations. It makes logical sense that they would prefer someone that could get the qualifications to get straight onto yr 1 of their chosen degree (due to a percieved greater effort in trying to achieve it). As for the display of effort you claim an fdn year displays, wouldn't it make more sense that a student who couldn't get straight to yr 1 showed a lack of effort in their studies in the first place (@ a levels) in order to achieve their first goal at uni ?.

Effort only gets you so far, there comes a time when they will be looking for you to achieve something due to the effort.

[Ad_Pad]

momo95...Why are you getting yourself wound up about how BA could potentially view the foundation year? As I understand it, you meet the entry criteria. That's that, as far as BA are concerned. BA are much more concerned about your skills and competencies in a professional and social environment i.e what work experience you have done and how you demonstrated team work etc..blah blah blah...you know the score.
The academic qualifications set for entry by BA are just a means of filtering through a manageable number of applications. From then on, in terms of academics, most will depend on your performance in the assessment tests (verbal/numerical reasoning, aptitude tests etc.). I don't think my secondary education subjects and results came up once throughout the whole assessment & interview phase, aside from some photocopying.

[Nelson15]

As already mentioned, academic achievements are not brought up at all in interview, unless you perhaps raise them as an answer to a question.

If you meet the criteria to apply in the first place, forget about the rest of it and concentrate on other things to help your application.

[DaveyG1023]

I have just read inside BA's magazine that the third round of the FPP is going ahead, to be launched on "26 October, for about a month and is seeking 60 recruits." Nothing else is mentioned, just keep an eye on bafuturepilot.com for more info.

In addition they comment that the very first intake are planning to start as BA pilots in November, "subject to the successful completion of their Airbus type rating".

Great news all round!

Good luck all!

[momo95]

Let the games begin ...

[crunchy_pirate]

Pilot Q&A: Helen Macnamara Senior First Officer, Boeing 767 fleet - Travel tips and inspiration - British Airways High Life (http://www.bahighlife.com/News-And-Blogs/To-Fly-To-Serve-Blog/Pilot-QA-Helen-Macnamara-Senior-First-Officer-Boeing-767-fleet.html)

further confirmation at the bottom of this interview:

"The British Airways Future Pilot Programme will once again be open for applications from this month. To find out more information, visit bafuturepilot.com"

[flying_god]

Does anyone know if last years allocation of cadets was 1/3rd with each school?

The reason I ask, is that Oxford "seemed" to be the most popular, so in theory you might stand a better chance with FTE which "seemed" to be the least?

[G-F0RC3]

No. Each FTO send BA the info on what they think are their best n candidates. From all three sets of candidates BA select the best 300 or so. Theoretically the best 300 could all come from the same FTO.

[Libertine Winno]

The information given by BA at the Flyer Exhibition was that all 72 places would be split equally between the schools (i.e. 24 each)

Whether it worked out in this fashion in practice, or not, I've no idea but it was certainly the intention.

To be honest, the competition is so great that I would suggest you're better off choosing the school you prefer and then trying to be the best you can, rather than worry about whether you will increase your chances by a minimal amount based on speculation and rumour!

[EZY_FR]

It is interesting that the future pilot website is actually down...

[G-F0RC3]

I'd be astonished if that's how it actually happened Libertine, as it doesn't make sense. If it were the case then technically you're not competing against the candidates from the other schools on the final selection day. And by this reasoning if the standard was a lot lower in one group than in another, BA would be turning away superior candidates in favour of inferior ones purely on the basis of splitting the allocation between the FTOs. Not gonna happen... :cool:

But I agree with you; it's best to choose a school based on other reasons rather than the slight chance of it increasing the probability of you being selected. Because ultimately you'll be up against the best from all schools at the final day.

[Phlying_Physicist]

From what I can remember OAA received the most applications, with FTE and CTC receiving a similar amount.
I find it hard to believe that BA would pick a "weaker" candidate just to make the numbers up at a certain school.
As has already been said, surely it makes sense to just pick the school that you want to go to rather than worry about a marginal difference in odds (which are tiny as it is).

[pug]

From what I could gather In previous years, applications go through BA, those selected are passed on to FTO's who will assess each candidate internally. They will choose the top X candidates based on BA set criteria. They are then handed back to BA for final selection.

This process tends to differ from other schemes, where the FTO will take the initial applications, and then pass off the top X candidates off to the airline for final selection.

[chocsaway08]

I have managed to get on to the revamped website, which basically holds the same information as the old one, no change in any of the content and entry requirements exactly the same. Still leaves me completely unsure as to whether my HNC and being 5 months away from a completed BEng Hons will be enough. :ugh:

[Fly-Boi-1992]

I don't think that the revamped one is live just yet chocsaway08. When you google the BA FPP website and hit the link for it, it is directed to a different place.

On another note, I know what you mean regarding entry requirements. I emailed last year as I thought whilst in my BEng and having good marks i would be able to apply as i'm 1 off on the A-levels, unfortunately they told me no, i completely understand your frustration. BUT, if the site you were on isn't the revamped one like you thought, then there still may have been a change in entry requirements, who knows, but lets hope so. All the best!

[chocsaway08]

Fly boi, try the site on mobile, working for me.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Chocs, think the site viewable on iPad/mobile is still the old one, not the revamped one. The one I'm seeing is definitely the one that's been up since last year.

Did NARIC not get back to you regarding the qualifications?

[Fly-Boi-1992]

Mayday,Mayday,Mayday, I think you’re right. I have a page up on my screen, but it’s the old one. Stamped 2012 at the bottom of the screen J

[chocsaway08]

Mayday, i did not contact NARIC as i was waiting to see what the qualifcations are this year.

looks like i will be writing the £40 email application now...:*

[yanny]

Luckily £40 is a small price to pay relative to all the other incidental costs that creep up throughout the process. With the numbers apparently reduced to 60 for the next intake it seems that getting through will be even more competitive than ever. Good luck to all!

[flying_god]

I think Oxford, CTC and FTE probably want a guarantee that if they invest in the assessment centers etc they get a return on that investment by having a fixed number of candidates at the end.

I know you pay the FTO for assessment but they are "supposed" to be a contribution to the costs rather than the actual cost.

I think it does make a difference which one you select. If Oxford had 33% more candidates then your chances go down by 33%.

[reeko]

So how can one find out or research what school/s had/ have a bigger grab from BA?

[EZY_FR]

Still doesnt work for me.

[G-F0RC3]

I think it does make a difference which one you select. If Oxford had 33% more candidates then your chances go down by 33%.

No, not really. 5000 people apply. 50 are selected. Doesn't matter which FTO each candidate goes to. Admittedly you might stand a slightly better chance of going further in the competition (correct name for it? :p), but in terms of actual overall success, there is very little statistical difference. In other words, the candidates who were chosen last time around probably still would have been had they all attended different schools from the ones they did. Quality to that extent shines through.

[G-F0RC3]

So how can one find out or research what school/s had/ have a bigger grab from BA?

This idea is somewhat self-defeating. You'll be up against the best candidates if you progress far enough anyway. If you're not good enough to get to the final day from a single school, you're not likely to make it through the final day should you have gotten there via an alternative route.

Your time would be far better spent trying to make yourself the best possible candidate you can be. Forget about the odds of x, y, z - it's all high pi in the sky.

[reeko]

Yeah exactly what I though.

I was just wondering why people were talking about this idea...

[flying_god]

The odds are no different if the cadets are selected without any regard to their school.

The odds can be significantly different if they cadets are assessed relative to each school. ie:

School Applicants Places % Chance of success
FTE 1000 24 2.4%
CTC 1000 24 2.4%
Oxford 1300 24 1.8%

What Libertine said about 24 per school was what I heard from Oxford last year. So if anyone knows 100% the policy (rather than what they think), it would be appreciated...

[G-F0RC3]

My point stands. Think about it this way...

You decide to slash your odds by going to FTE and make it through to the final selection day. At the final selection day you meet the best candidates from the other two schools (the same schools you avoided). Now all the best candidates are in one place, competing against each other for the places, and you have to beat them to progress anyway. So under no circumstances are you actually avoiding any of the competition (at least not as far as the FPP as a whole is concerned), assuming BA are choosing candidates based entirely on merit, rather than allocating to each FTO an equal number (which they almost certainly aren't). It's inconceivable that BA would do it that way, given that they want the best - not the luckiest. And in this industry the FTOs don't make the demands - the airlines do.

[flying_god]

I see your point, however at my final day selection the people that I spoke to were all from Oxford. Like me..

[G-F0RC3]

Incidentally, it's quite possible that what OAA have said has been taken out of context. I don't know for sure (as I wasn't there), but I can see why someone giving a talk on the FPP might say something along the lines of: "...so they're looking for about 75 candidates, 25 from each FTO", without meaning it quite as literally as that. Perhaps all it was really trying to say was that the candidates will be trained by three FTOs without prejudice.

I mean, if the allocation was split and set in stone, why wouldn't that be outlined on the FPP website? And why would OAA want to advertise the fact that their candidates have a statistical disadvantage? And why would BA say they want the best candidates, when - with that method - they almost certainly wouldn't get the best? It just doesn't make an ounce of sense to me. :ok:

[G-F0RC3]

In addition (after which I'll shut up for a wee while :p) the new BA FPP website FAQ says:

Will I stand a better chance of obtaining a place on the Future Pilot Programme if I apply for the training to be delivered at a particular FTO?

No. There is no bias or preference by British Airways in respect of each applicant’s preferred training location.

Now I'm pretty sure BA are capable of understanding basic statistics, so wouldn't miss that an equal allocation across FTOs would statistically favour candidates at FTOs with the fewest candidates. :)

[flying_god]

I'm not convinced either way. But its been interesting to debate the merits of either...

Companies do strange things when negotiating contracts..

[chocsaway08]

When I have been involved in the recruitment of apprentices (albeit not on this scale) a similar methodology applies. Regardless of geographical location, if all of the best candidates are based in one area we will concentrate on their recruitment rather than waste time with other applications. Same rule will probably apply here as it's common sense, however statistically you are likely to see an even proportion of high quality candidates over the 3 FTO's due to the sheer volume of applications made which is why the likelihood of even student intake is high between each FTO.

[flying_god]

Hi,

Last time I checked, the MCC / Jet Orientation Course at each school was done on:
Oxford - 737 Classic (-400?)
CTC - A320
FTE - 737 NG

I'm guessing if you do your JOC on the A320 the type rating would be easier. I know BA have some 737's but from what I have heard they wont put cadets on them..

Anyone know any difference to the above ?

[no sponsor]

The 2014 FPP selection opens on 26th October according to the BA intranet. They've also created some new vids for the B787 and A380 which you can view on the BA YouTube channel:

British Airways -- Take a tour of our A380 (full version) - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPi4R3aFeEc

[Michael Scott]

BA specified for CTC to use the 737 for the JOC as its less of a step up from light aircraft flying to the Airbus..

[tonybhoy96]

How reliable is the source that states that the FPP will be open to applications on 26th October?

[SetStandard]

How reliable is the source that states that the FPP will be open to applications on 26th October?

Very reliable. It should be open for about a month and BA are looking to recruit around 60.

Good luck all! :ok:

[tonybhoy96]

Sounds great :)

Good luck everyone :)

[EZY_FR]

tonybhoy96

Read this: Pilot Q&A: Helen Macnamara Senior First Officer, Boeing 767 fleet - Travel tips and inspiration - British Airways High Life (http://www.bahighlife.com/News-And-Blogs/To-Fly-To-Serve-Blog/Pilot-QA-Helen-Macnamara-Senior-First-Officer-Boeing-767-fleet.html)

It was also stated in the BA highlife magazine that it will reopen on the 26th October.

[tonybhoy96]

Thanks EZY FR :)

[Nelson15]

People older than you have got on the scheme before, so it's unlikely to have been your age!

Good luck.

[G-F0RC3]

1) I believe so. In fact, some candidates who failed to get through on their first attempt were successful on their second. As far as I know quite a few of them tried through the same FTO.

2) If you had attended the selection day at FTE then I'd say you'd stand a better chance of making it through to the final stage by going there again; than by changing FTO (purely because you'd have experience of what their selection was like). However, as you didn't make it that far, I doubt it'd make a great deal of difference which one you apply to on the next occasion. In fact, I've even heard it mentioned that it's BA who decide who to invite to each of the FTO selection days based on the online applications, and if that is the case then it won't make the slightest bit of difference which one you apply to.

Hope it's helpful. :cool:

[Michael Scott]

Wouldn't let age put anyone off. There are plenty of applicants at my flight school who are balding, grey hairs or both! The majority of younger cadets but the have degrees and/or previous RAF experience. If given a choice between all three schools I would go with Jerez based on the location and current fleet expansion - just because you haven't got in on the first go don't just give up. Took me nine go's to get onto an airline scheme!

[ETflyer]

Hello.

As a previous applicant, I feel it is very important that I have my input. I believe the school which you apply for is very very important and has a great effect on your application. Without naming the schools involved, a close friend of mine applied for one of the schools initially in the first few days and was rejected and submitted the same application 2 weeks later to a different school via a different email address etc and was invited to the assessment stage and made it to the final stage of the whole settlement. Therefore, there is no way that British Airways screen the applications. The flight training School does.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

ETflyer, or perhaps a different assessor looked over the application and thought more of it than the initial assessor? Whether it's BA or the FTOs who are vetting the applicants, surely there's got to be a team of people doing it, and thus a level of subjectivity. Perhaps the first time it was assessed immediately after a really strong application, and the second after a particularly poor one, making it look better or worse by comparison. Who knows? I've got no idea precisely how they do it, but it would seem that having two different outcomes for the same application doesn't prove things in either direction, especially considering that the questions don't require yes/no answers.

Ps. You may, of course, be right...but that example doesn't necessarily prove it!

[mad_jock]

I doud't very much if BA gets involved until the last stage. The whole point of outsourcing is so they don't have to commit huge amounts of resources to the whole thing. The sifting of the initial applications is a huge task.

I suspect there is an initial computer sweep through to weed out those that don't meet the min education, right to work etc. Then it will be into the schools to see what's left. The it will be human opinion if you get through to the next stage.

The schools will only be able to process through to the next stage x number of people. So the standard required through to the next stage will vary between schools depending on the quality of the bulk that apply to them.

There is so many variables which can come into personal choice with a lot to do with the person reading the application. I know that when I read a CV rugby players and military service stand out to me. Football has the opposite effect.

So there will be a base line of what they are looking for, but there will be an element of luck of who your CV lands in front of.

[G-F0RC3]

know that when I read a CV rugby players and military service stand out to me. Football has the opposite effect.

I can relate to this. When recruiting you're technically supposed to be impartial (more or less) to this type of thing. But we wouldn't be human if it didn't effect us to some degree (even if subconciously). Whenever I think of an applicant who is a footballer I automatically recall hearing footballers giving post-match interviews along the lines of "We done good out there, proud of the boys workrate; 110%. Just didnae get the baw in the back of the net." And the thought of interviewing someone who is that :ugh: articulate just doesn't really appeal to me. But then I snap myself out of that mindset and try to be impartial. But could I honestly say that person then has an equal bite at the cherry? Probably not. They might come into an interview and impress me, but they'd likely start off with a disadvantage over someone else. Most recruitment - irrespective of where it is - involves an element of the above. Be under no illusions, it'll be the same at BA. :cool:

[mad_jock]

Well its not really that with me.

Its the thought of having to share crew accom with football on the telly every night.

But saying that someone saying they were a coach for a junior team or Referee I would see as a plus point.

Maybe the people applying should do a bit of research into the type of people at the various schools who will be looking at the applications. Youngsters they will not be, ex-military, rugby players, like a bit of jazz or classical, maybe have disabled kids or grand kids. Its all about standing out from the crowd for good reasons. Football you may be lucky with but it hardly stands out from the crowd.

[chocsaway08]

maybe have disabled kids or grand kids.

A truly harrowing way of "standing out from the crowd".

[FANS]

As BA is so competitive, there’s sometimes a feeling that you need to be superman. You don’t. Equally, they don’t necessarily want the geek that’s been plane spotting since age 10 every weekend but done nothing else.

Consequently, I would encourage people to be professional, write achievements in a positive light and be themselves.

If there’s one thing worse than applying, it would be having to select cadets from the many good candidates.

[mad_jock]

Not really if you have given up your time to help with disabled organisations. Something DofE and scouting promotes.

It certainly wasn`t something unusal on a CV from my peer group

[NathanJohnston]

Afternoon all.
My question is reference the A Level requirements. My circumstances; I flew solo (C152) a matter of days after my 16th birthday, following this I obtained P.P.L. (C152 / 172SP) 1 day after 17th birthday. I am in Upper 6th (Year 14) at local Grammar School, studying A Levels. This leads me to ask; is it necessary to HOLD A Levels at the time of application? I should note that I am aware of another airline cadet scheme where there was no mention of holding A Levels, hence (slight) confusion.
Any advice gratefully received.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Unfortunately, I think the "predicted grades are not acceptable" statement answers your question, going on the assumption that it remains the same as the current site info.

[Gradual Descent]

Here's a question about the unspoken pre-requisites that maybe only someone already on the course can answer.

If you're an older person, and I am, but you're not married and don't have any children, is that likely to severely disadvantage you as it does in the wider world of business?

Someone might also suggest what kind of flying interest and enthusiasm you need to display? From the Cathay application website it looks like they're only interested in all round wing commanders, or at least expect you to be a member of every aviation and flying club within fifty miles.

[NathanJohnston]

Thank you for help / confirmation. Think it will wait for next year then :)

[adelta]

BA's cadet scheme is open to people up to the age of 55 so being older won't go against you, unless you are over 55 :)

However, it was recently suggested to me that BA are seen to open applications to older candidates as a "nod" to equal ops and statistics, and that the reality is that you probably are disadvantaged.

Couple this with the common saying that "airlines want to employ future captains". What is your chance of becoming a captain if you are 55 when you enter training...? Makes me wonder.

I hope that isn't the case.

I got through to the last stage of BA sponsorship, hmmm, about 16 years ago, but that was as far as I got. Since then life has managed to get in the way and at almost 40 (kids have left home) I am now reconsidering visiting my old passion.

So, I would LOVE to hear from people 40+ who have been accepted onto these cadet courses just to prove that in theory it is possible.

[no sponsor]

Gradual Des: very amusing, although BA require each club within Northern Europe.

Seriously, think about what BA want: Team-players, leaders, good people skills, being able to cope with difficult problems, etc. To pass the course, you'll need to demonstrate you need to have done well in exams (since there's a few), be able to pick yourself up when the going gets tough, motivated, and being able to take feedback. Those people who can DEMONSTRATE they have done these sorts of things is what BA are looking for. People who have done school clubs, been prefects, led school teams and contributed to their schools and Universities will be a better bet to be able to demonstrate those things to BA. (or indeed been in careers where this is evident)

Having had some exposure to flying is a guide: at least if you've had a trial lesson you know you're not scared of it!

So simple when you stand back and think about it. :}

[braders777]

Hi Guys, just a quick question.
So currently I am a CTC Cadet on the standard wings course but would obviously love to get to BA some day!
With the next round of FPP coming up, do you think there would be any chance of me talking to BA to see if I could go straight to stage 3 of the selection process for this FPP coming up, or is it likely I would get refused point blank? I have all the requirements BA have asked for too.
Anyone have an thoughts on if it's worth a shot? Thanks

[FANS]

It can be debated until the cows come home whether the 55 limit is to please age legislation or not.

I remember not so long ago when people were worrying about being 29 for a 28 age limit!!

The key is that you prepare properly. There will be youngsters with a lot of time available to keep practicing the aptitude tests, whereas if you just wing it on the day because you've got the day job/family etc., you've got no chance.

Even if you're on the line by say 45, that's still 20 years of service and the last thing BA wants is to employ 500 21 year old pilots all retiring in the space of 5 years in 30-40 years' time.

So if you're prepared to dedicate a massive amount of time to the application process - and I'm not talking about visiting pprune or plane spotting - go for it, but if not you're wasting everyone's time.

[G-F0RC3]

braders777:

No. The BA FPP policy has always been that to be eligible for the process you cannot have already commenced an integrated fATPL training course.

[braders777]

G-F0RC3:

Many Thanks for your response. Is that specified on the BAFPP website? Thanks for letting me know anyhow so I'm not wasting my time, I will just apply to the Direct Entry Scheme later in the future!

[Bearcat F8F]

G-F0RC3 (http://www.pprune.org/members/345787-g-f0rc3),

I don't think that's entirely true.

"If you have completed, or are planning to complete, any JAR-FCL Airline Transport Pilot ground school examinations (or EASA equivalents) then you should note that in order to be accepted onto the Future Pilot Programme you must not have already sat any of these exams at the point of commencing training under this programme."


So if you haven't done any of the exams, you're fine. Obviously if you have started an integrated course then you would have to quit it before you sit any of the exams.

[G-F0RC3]

Perhaps it's slightly misleading then. Under the FAQ section it states:

Do I need to have any flying experience to apply for the Future Pilot Programme?

No. While some flying experience would be valuable, you do not need to have had any experience before you apply to the Future Pilot Programme. However, you must not hold a Commercial Pilot’s Licence or higher, or have commenced an integrated course of flight training, if you wish to apply for the programme. [embolded is my emphasis]

However, that does seem to contradict what Bearcat has quoted above. Having said that, what has been posted above seems to make more sense to me. Apparently the reason you can't join the programme if you have already sat an ATPL ground exam is because the CAA can't pass you for the same exam more than once. Perhaps it would be a good idea to find out for sure by speaking to the FTO you are currently training at. They might have a good idea of whether others on their integrated course have tried (and been successful) at switching to the BA FPP.

[braders777]

Thanks for the advice guys! Obviously I hope to get there one day, for now then sounds like without forfeiting my place on the course it ain't going to be an option!

[747craze]

Will I have to have a BTEC confirmed by NARIC? It's worth 3 A's at A-Level grade?

[G-F0RC3]

747craze: I would if I were you. It can't hurt to have confirmation from NARIC. :ok:

[Fly-Boi-1992]

I'm not sure they accept BTEC's. Correct me if i'm wrong anyone? It states on the site that it's only a-levels, however, scottish equivalents, and in Ireland, leaving certs I imagine.

BTEC's aren't equivalent to a-levels in the respect that scottish equivalents are if that makes sense.

[747craze]

"If you have equivalent academic qualifications then you will be asked to provide a Letter of Comparability from*UK NARIC before attending your first selection day. The Scottish educational qualification equivalents are detailed in the FAQ page"

G-FORC3 I appreciate it! Thank you! Ill do just that..

Fly-Boi-92 they do accept BTEC's, I do get what you're saying though. Ill cry if they dont! Two harrowing years with the prospect of this pulling me through the complacency! Thanks mate!

[747craze]

Am i right in saying that NARIC only compare qualifications from outside the UK?

[Phlying_Physicist]

You may as well apply anyway, the worst that could happen is they say no.

Out of interest what's the difference between BTEC and A Levels?
Does a BTEC cover a range of subjects e.g. Maths and two sciences / three humanities? They weren't offered at my school.

[chocolateracer]

The scheme is re opening for applications today. Best of luck everyone.

[G-F0RC3]

If you have equivalent academic qualifications then you will be asked to provide a Letter of Comparability from UK NARIC before attending your first selection day. The Scottish educational qualification equivalents are detailed in the FAQ page.

The above (from the BA FPP website) doesn't appear to differentiate between foreign equivalent qualifications and domestic ones. It only speaks of equivalent. I'm not sure whether NARIC will only provide a letter detailing foreign qualification equivalence, but it would seem silly if you had an equivalent UK-based qualification yet couldn't apply because you had no way of confirming to BA that it was indeed equivalent. And yet someone coming from somewhere else in Europe would have the ability to provide such a letter. Therefore, there must be a sensible solution to this problem that isn't specifically outlined on the website. In all cases (where you don't have the A-Levels or other requirements specified on the website), I'd still recommend contacting NARIC anyway. This is an opportunity of a lifetime and it would be a shame to miss out on it over something as trivial as that. If NARIC can't supply a letter of equivalence then you will at least have a response from them to show to BA that you did contact them.

Fly-boi: the website doesn't specifically state that they don't accept BTECs. In fact, based on the above paragraph it implies that they will, as long as they are considered equivalent to the A-Level requirements. Looking at the (convoluted) UCAS points allocations, it looks to me like certain BTEC qualifications are just as good (if not better) than A-Levels. It would be incredibly asinine to be bureaucratic to the point of rejecting an applicant in light of this, and I don't think BA would. Moreover, if you consider that they are happy to accept a 2:2 degree; what they are clearly looking for isn't someone with A-Levels, it's someone with a demonstrated track record of being able to study at a reasonable level and pass. Any qualification as good as (or better) than the A-Level requirements should therefore (more or less) be considered equivalent.

Obviously the above is only my understanding of the situation and shouldn't be taken as fact. I'd always advise anyone to get the relevant confirmation well in advance of applying.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

The scheme is re opening for applications today. Best of luck everyone.

According to the site, the FPP is open for applications from 11th November 2013.

Still, best of luck!

[EZY_FR]

It is confirmed that the FPP will reopen on the 11th November. Look at their site.

[G-F0RC3]

For clarity:

We will be opening the website for reading only on Thursday 24th October 2013. The website will be open for applications on Tuesday 11th November and it will close for applications at 23:59 on 26th November 2013. Please note if we receive an overwhelming number of applications we reserve the right to close the application window early. If we have to do this, however, we will make it clear on this page that we’re taken that step and will email everyone who has started an application to give them 48 hours’ notice of applications closing.

That's quite a short application window. :E

[G-F0RC3]

Incidentally, they have now supplied a nice little table of what they consider equivalent qualifications. BTECs are included. Please see: BA FPP - About You (http://www.britishairways.com/careers/futurepilot/aboutYou.shtml)

The minimum requirements at BTECH Level 3 are: DDM

[747craze]

Now after being told that perhaps the BTEC wasn't acceptable, I emailed BA HR department last night to confirm. Coincidence or not there is now a comparibility table as to what your BTEC or Scottish Highers are worth in relation to their want so to speak. Although they haven't even spelt 'BTEC' correctly ;).

G-FORC3 - another quality post!

[747craze]

I know its being picky, and for that I shouldn't, butbi couldnt help notice that the 11th of November is a Monday? So when does it open, the 11th (Monday) or Tuesday the 12th?

[G-F0RC3]

Maybe this is one of those verbal reasoning tests.

Possible answers:

a) Monday 11th
b) Tuesday 12th
c) Can't tell

I'm going with answer c

:p

On a serious note though, I hope they spot this and fix it. I'll certainly be checking on the Monday just to be sure. :ok:

[G-F0RC3]

Reading through the new FAQ pages, I came across this:

There will be a number of courses for those who are successful through the selection process, with courses starting in Autumn 2014 through to February 2016.


I'm curious as to whether they meant 2016 or 2015 (as would seem to make more sense based on previous years). Or is this an early indication that this might be the last BA FPP intake? :(

[chocsaway08]

Looking at the new qualification ranking chart, my HNC (level) 4 surpasses the minimum requirement but still unstated as to whether I will need NARIC approval.

[Libertine Winno]

It also states that;


When will training courses commence?




The courses are likely to run over an 12 month period, with the first course expected to start in Autumn 2013 and the last course expected to start in Autumn 2014.



Which would be a mighty quick turnaround...!

[G-F0RC3]

I noticed that too Libertine. I've come to assume that they simply forgot to change some of the dates from last year's programme on the website. Bit of sense checking required me thinks! :O

[spike00]

OK...I was looking to apply for this programme upon launch but have checked the qualifications required & am very confused/annoyed. I meet the GCSE level easily and I then took the International Baccalaureate exam. I passed the Diploma with 28 points which in UCAS terms is the equivalent of 348 tariff points. BA are looking for the equivalent of BBC passes at A-Level or in UCAS tariff points, 280.

All looks good until I see that BA expect an IB student to have 30 IB points or the equivalent of 392 UCAS tariff points!!

It appears that any university would accept me every time in competition with an A Level student with the minimum BA grades yet BA would turn me down. I have compared all the equivalent BA requirements and in every case the IB student (for taking the toughest exam of them all) has the toughest entry requirements, surely this must be wrong?

Anyone with any knowledge/experience of this? Do you think the website has got its grades right?

[G-F0RC3]

Spike: It's quite possible that BA have made a mistake with this - it wouldn't be the first mistake that they've made on their website by any means. I've had a look at it myself and what you're saying appears to be correct. Perhaps you should write to them to let them know that the IB points they've stated as equivalent to BBC A-Level are actually considerably higher in terms of UCAS points.

[irishoperator]

I imagine BA will have it correct as I hate to break it to you but the IB isn't the hard qualification you seem to believe it is, many graduate employers outside aviation for example also have similar requirements for those who took the IB.

[Groundloop]

Spike,

A lot of universities regard the UCAS tariff for IBs as too high. Here are some examples:-

BEng Aeronautical Engineering (City University)
A-level requirements - 340 UCAS points
IB 30 (which is 392 UCAS points - IB at 28 is 348).

BEng Aerospace Engineering (Liverpool)
A-level requirment - 320 points
IB 33 (457 points - IB at 27 is 320)

BEng Aeronautical Engineering (Loughborough)
A-level requirment - 340-360 points
IB 34 (479 points - IB at 28 is 348)



Sorry.

[Libertine Winno]

Without wishing to re-tread over ground covered with regards academic qualifications, they are what they are and that's it. If you meet them, apply. If you don't, then go away and work so that you do next year. This will also demonstrate a good example to BA as to how much you want it, if you are fortunate to get through to the interview stage.

As we all know, this application process numbers in the thousands of applications, so BA are not exactly short of the type of person they are after.

That may sound a little harsh, but we can debate at length whether the requirements are fair (or even relevant!) but they are what they are so a hoop that must be jumped through!

[G-F0RC3]

I agree Libertine. However, I do feel particularly sorry for spike's situation. It seems an entirely logical approach to complete a course considered (by UCAS) to be equal to or greater than the minimum requirements for the BA FPP, in order that one could then gain entry to the programme. It is of no fault of his own (in my opinion) that UCAS, BA, and universities are inconsistent with each other when deciding whether one qualification is equivalent to another or not.

[planemadsam]

I'm guessing reapplicants can also apply? Not clear on the site!

[G-F0RC3]

I believe some people who failed on their first attempt were successful on their second attempt. Therefore I would imagine it's still alright to apply on your second (or even third?) attempt. I presume if it wasn't allowed then BA would have written that on the website to prevent those extra applications needing to be looked at, if nothing else.

[irishoperator]

I know for a fact BA don't care if you've applied and failed before.

As long as you have developed in the time in between that's all they care about.

So certainly apply.

[captain_spud]

You can definitely apply if you've applied in the past., I can testify to that as I failed first time round and succeeded second time round. As irishoperator states, just make sure you've developed since last time and be able to show it throughout the whole application process.

[EZY_FR]

After attending the BA seminar down at Flyer today, I feel like I should add something that you should all consider. You can only apply 3 TIMES, so if you failed the assessment last year and the year before, you only have one more chance. Also they plan to do it again for 2 or 3 more years, although that depends on their needs each summer. This info came from Lindsay Craig.

[G-F0RC3]

I think three times is pretty fair to be honest. If you haven't been successful by the third attempt then I think it's unlikely you ever will be.

[EZY_FR]

That is how I see it too.

[aviator-P]

Hey guy

I was just wondering has anyone got on to the FPP scheme with the minimum required 2:2 as most of the fella i have met at OAA hold a 1st class honours :ugh:

[EZY_FR]

A lot of them had only just left school mate, so dont worry about it.

[tonybhoy96]

EZY FR was there a lot of successful school leavers over the last two intakes?

[momo95]

I found the guy answering questions on ctc's facebook page interesting. In particular the waiting time of up to 6 months to start actual work and the £25,000 starting salary. But i suppose it's the best of an awful lot of "sponsorships".

[BerksFlyer]

momo95,

If you read the website you'll find the starting salary to be £22k+flight pay of around 12k, which is favourably taxed. The base salary increases every year for the first 6 years by roughly 5k to join the DEP pay scale. However, where you're most likely missing the point, is that the 84k for training is repaid by BA on top of all this.

It'd be useful to know the facts prior to commenting in a public place.

[Chris_ACV]

"You can only apply 3 TIMES, so if you failed the assessment last year and the year before, you only have one more chance. Also they plan to do it again for 2 or 3 more years, although that depends on their needs each summer. This info came from Lindsay Craig."

Hi EZY,

Do you have any written evidence of this? (eg. website/URL)

Would it then count as 2 attempts if for example you failed at stage 1 the first year and failed at stage 3 the second year?

Cheers,
Chris.

[NathanJohnston]

Hi everyone,
I am aware that the minimum age for holding ATPL is 21 yrs. If one applied for the scheme at 18, would this pose any disadvantage due to the 3 year wait?

[G-F0RC3]

The £84k over the first 7 years of employment cannot be underestimated. It's akin to a £12k tax free increase onto your annual salary. In other words, to have the same disposable income in real terms working for another airline (assuming you had the debt of an integrated course to service - which most do), you'd have to be earning considerably more. Such an amount is not realistically ever going to be achieved at such a junior level in any airline. And that's all excluding the extra flight allowances, which are realistically going to be better at BA than anywhere else. From a financial point of view (and very probably otherwise too), the BA FPP cadets are jumping a decade up the ladder over their similarly qualified peers at other airlines. Even then, those other guys are some of the lucky ones - having managed to actually find an airline job at all.

But even irrespective of the above, one of the most crucial elements to the BA FPP is not necessarily that it pays better. If pay was the only driving force for the successful ones then they are going into the wrong profession in my opinion. The most critical element of the BA FPP is that it enables an aspiring pilot the opportunity to train at all, with as close to a guaranteed job at the end of it you're ever likely to get in today's aviation industry. I read about one young lady who made the cut (via OAA if my memory serves me correctly), who would have otherwise started an integrated course the previous year had she been able to secure the loan - which she couldn't. So for an applicant like her, the BA FPP appears like it was the only feasible route into the industry short of a lottery win.

It's not hard to see why most people who know anything about anything on this forum can recognise this to be an opportunity of a lifetime. And BA should be applauded for making it about the quality of the applicant rather than the size of their wallet.

[G-F0RC3]

Nathan: So long as you satisfy the age requirements outlined on BA's FPP website, you'll be fine.

[NathanJohnston]

Thanks G-FORC3.

[G-F0RC3]

Do you have any written evidence of this? (eg. website/URL)

I personally haven't seen any written evidence of it (and I've read a lot). However, if Lindsay Craig has said that (and I have no reason to disbelieve EZY that he did), then we can probably assume that it's pretty reliable information.

Would it then count as 2 attempts if for example you failed at stage 1 the first year and failed at stage 3 the second year?

Since EZY said that you can only "apply" three times, it seems to imply that it doesn't matter how far each application subsequently goes. On each occasion it appears that it'll count as one of your three shots.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Nathan, you wouldn't hold a full ATPL until something like 1500 hours flying time down the line. Even if applying at 18, it'll take you more than 3 years to achieve that when you take into account the duration of the application process (roughly 5 months), the wait to commence training (likely anything from 6 to 15 months, going by this year's stats), the training itself (say 16 to 18 months, including type rating) then working full time on the line with a maximum of 900 hours per year. No way you'd reach that point before age 21, so nothing to worry about.

Edit: beaten to it by G-FORC3 :p

[momo95]

Berksflyer,

First of all, You wanna know what's really useful ?, Knowing that the £12,000 you speak of is not something you will be taking home as it will be going straight back to the bank. Had you properly read the site you will know the 12k IS NOT EXTRA FLY PAY !!!

Secondly. I don't know what site you've been reading but it certainly ain't the correct one as that clearly states "a further £8-£10,000 of flying allowances typically being earned in a full year of flying (please note that these allowances are not guaranteed and are subject to levels and type of flying completed)".
I would like to emphasise on the bracketed stuff as it basically says that the extra allowance is subject to availability and even then it may only be a few thousand pound extra. Which obviously falls right into place with what the fpp cadet said today as the year 1 basic salary is £22,700, add a few k (for all we know they may have already been told they will only receive a few thousand extra) and then you can safely say you will earn around £25,000. By the way I think someone who is actually nearing the end of their fpp training will be slightly more informed than you.

Lastly, what part of my last post led you to believe I was talking about the salary of the first 6 years of work in order for you to point out an irrelevant yearly pay rise of 5,000, I clearly said "£25,000 STARTING SALARY".


Good God, talk about the importance of knowing "the facts prior to commenting in a public place".

[BerksFlyer]

momo95,

The 12k a year over 7 years is the repayment of the flight training costs (security bond) - this is over and above the basic salary and flight pay. There is no reason this should be beyond the understanding of anybody who has done their research, it is all on the site.

I would avoid making assumptions, as they can often make one look a fool. I am on the scheme myself.

[NathanJohnston]

MaydayMaydayMayday, thank you for that information! I am at that difficult age when I will meet the 'age 18' requirement but, not the A Level requirements, as I am currently studying for them, so will hold fire and apply next year.

[EZY_FR]

Chris_ACV

I dont have any physical evidence on hand, but Lindsay Craig, the main pilot recruitment officer for the FPP , specifically stated that. Im not totally sure if he means that if you reach the final stage and fail it 3 times, or if you just fail it 3 times regardless of when you failed.

tonybhoy96
Absolutely no idea what proportion of the successful candidates were school leavers, but I do know that most of the ones who were successful were 22-23. I wouldnt let that put anyone off though,some of the graduates that were at the Flyer expedition were either in their 30s.

I would wholeheartedly recommend anyone to go to the Flyer expedition the next time it comes around, it was really helpful.

[G-F0RC3]

Nathan: even less reason why your age would ever become a factor! :p Good luck with your A-Levels.

[EZY_FR]

NathanJohnston

As per G-FORC3, as long as you meet the age requirements, you can apply. Besides, if you apply for this now and are successful, you are unlikely to get started with a job until 2016.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Momo95, you can't really "safely say" anything about the take home pay, but £25k doesn't seem likely to be an accurate figure. What's really worth noting about the £12k bond repayment is that it's not taxed. As such, repaying a similar loan amount (assuming that's how the training was funded) would require a substantially higher pay with another employer to achieve the same take home pay, considering you'd be repaying it out of income which had already been taxed (which is what G-FORC3 was getting at). You're also only correct about the £12k going straight to the bank for those who are repaying a loan. For any cadets who managed to fund it independently (through savings or family or whatever) they'd still receive the £12k on top of their salary. Anyway, the figures are all there to interpret as you wish.

NathanJohnston, best of luck next year. :)

[NathanJohnston]

This is where my difficulty / confusion lies. I meet every requirement bar A Level requirements although in a matter of months that will be sufficed? I flew solo a matter of days after my 16th birthday and then achieved my PPL the day after my 17th birthday? So would that not count for something in the form of a concession?

[G-F0RC3]

Unfortunately not Nathan.

[NathanJohnston]

I thought that, as those requirements are there for a reason :)

[momo95]

I don't know what to say to you anymore. I said the 12,000 isn't extra flight pay (if you took a loan it's going back to the bank) and i state you get paid a basic salary aswell as a varying flight allowance. Now you seem to have great difficulty in understanding me on this ... "The £12,000 ... Is not extra flight pay". I then proceeded to mention the other parts of the wage pack.

Now I can not make it more easier for you to understand than this. You think I have some other idea.
And don't just reword the above if you reply. You seem to have struggled to understand a point made in the most basic and easy to understand sentences. Fool ? I think you'll find the word applies more to you. As for claiming to be on the programme, that just disturbs me deeply (if it is true).

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Anyone lucky enough to be able to fund their training without a loan also has the double advantage of avoiding any interest payments. The b***ards! :}

[G-F0RC3]

momo:

I think the £84k tax free bond repayment is kind of part of the pay anyway - even though you are correct in stating that it's going back to the bank/family. Had it not been part of the FPP for BA to repay that money then it'd be coming out of your salary (as it will for other guys who join other airlines). So to all intents and purposes, it's like extra pay as far as your month end bank balance is concerned. :)

That's significant. :cool:

[G-F0RC3]

Agreed Mayday. :ok:

But at least the loan as part of the BA FPP is paid to the FTO in installments over the period of training, so interest won't be accrued for all of it all of the time. Still though - it's a lot. :sad:

[EZY_FR]

Since the last one isnt really relevant anymore, I felt it was time to start a new thread based on the upcoming recruitment window.

The website opened up yesterday for reading and the application window will open up on the 11th November for approx. 2 weeks, although they can close early if demand is exceptional.

For convenience, I have included the important links for all aspiring pilots (myself included) to look into before asking questions.

Future Pilot Programme - Future Pilot - Share your passion (http://www.britishairways.com/careers/futurepilot/aboutYou.shtml)
You will need:

5 GCSEs at Grade C or above, including English Language, Mathematics and a Science (single or double award), excluding General Studies.
PLUS

either 3 A-Levels at Grades BBC or above, excluding General Studies and Critical thinking.
or an Honours Degree at 2:2 (or higher) or a pass (or above) in a higher degree such as MSc, MA, MPhil, DPhil, PhD, MBA.
Please note you must have achieved the entry qualifications at the point of application. We cannot accept predicted grades. If you have equivalent academic qualifications then you will be asked to provide a Letter of Comparability from UK NARIC before attending your first selection day. The Scottish educational qualification equivalents are detailed in the FAQ page.

Future Pilot Programme - Future Pilot ? Other Information and FAQs (http://www.britishairways.com/careers/futurepilot/fppFaqs.shtml)

Good luck!

[G-F0RC3]

I doubt he's paying £1000 to the bank from his salary as well as his bond repayments. That would be £2000 per month to the bank and only about £500 + flight allowances to live on. Doesn't seem sustainable, especially not in the south east of England. :cool:

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Having looked through that conversation, the £1000 he referred to was definitely the bond repayment over and above his salary, not that he was paying a grand out of his salary.

Because of likely repayment structure, there shouldn't really be any impact on salary until you've already taken a couple of steps up the pay scale. It would also depend on the size of any loan being repaid and the interest being applied to it. This will vary from cadet to cadet. Not that anyone should be divulging the specifics of their particular arrangement, the agreements are confidential and specific.

[BerksFlyer]

Forget this £25k figure.

First year salary around £34k (composed of salary+flight pay). Security bond of 12k also paid back. This takes care of the principal of the loan (84k). Accrued interest for your loan will also be paid back, but this ultimately comes out of your salary (the 34k), and whilst not insignificant, is incomparable to the repayments that would be required of other programmes (CTC Wings for example), where your security bond is not repaid. Ie. repayment costs in excess of 84k are the cost of credit of the loan. Payments are made to a predesignated schedule and overpayments are allowed.

As alluded to by a few others, to achieve the same take home pay as the FPP acheives were your bond not repaid, you would need to earn a fair bit more. I'm not going to calculate it, but it'd be in excess of £50k.

[Romeo Kilo]

Berks has it.

Those of you who are successful will have plenty of time to do your sums and make spreadsheets etc...

However, for reference purposes:

I expect to have to pay between £800 and £900 to the bank, each month, at the end of the "repayment holiday", for the first two years. This is as a result of the reduced repayment schedule the bank uses for the first two years. The bonus is obviously fewer outgoings each month. The downside is that you'll take longer to pay it off/incur more interest/pay more for the privilege of the capital in the long run. NB the total sum I have borrowed is around £75k.

So the first thing to be noticed here, is that in actual fact during the first 2 years of employment, I can expect my loan repayments to be less than my bond repayments. Interesting...:ok:

After two years, your payment schedule changes such that you're now making up for lost time, so the monthly repayment will be significantly more than before. I don't have my numbers to hand, so I can't name a figure. The thinking behind this is, of course, that you're now earning more money.

There is nothing to stop you, however, from taking a more tactical approach and paying off more of your borrowings to keep the medium term costs down. Indeed, many would argue that is an admirable strategy. While most of this is still to materialise for me, it looks like this reduced repayment schedule is going to be very useful at a time when, financially, one is at one's weakest.

[DNewcastle]

Hi all.

Just posting for any advice you guys may be able to give me?
I'm currently in my 3rd year studying Maths and Physics as part of a Natural Sciences degree at a Newcastle University, I’m aware that my predicted grades will not be taken into account when I’m applying but surely the fact I’ve managed to get this far into my course must count for something. I also have three grade A A-levels. As part of my course I’ve done a bit of fluid mechanics as well as reading up on the subject in general.

I’ve also got books on aircraft design and failures, and some technical info on the Boeing 737 family on my reading list. I have three hours of flying lessons under my belt and should hopefully have more before the application window opens.

Basically, I’m wondering what my chances are given that I’ve not completed my degree? Also if anyone could point me in the right direction of any other topics I should be reading about or anything I could do to improve my chances I’d be extremely grateful.

Thanks

[Nelson15]

At current interest rates, my BBVA FPP loan repayments, will be £850 for the first two years after your two year training break (so years 3 & 4 of the loan), then £1250 for the remainder of the loan period (a further 6 years). That's based on an £84,000 loan.

In terms of salary, £22,700 base, plus flying pay which has partly changed recently to a fixed amount per month, but depending on base expect £8000-£10000. £12000 is perhaps a bit ambitious unless you're planning to spend a long time away from home! Then there's the £12,000 bond repayments, which as already stated above are taken off your pay at source which is tax advantageous.

[no_problem]

Now now,come on children. Let's play nicely here or I'll tell your moms to give you a smacked botty

[EZY_FR]

DNewcastle

Have you got 5 GCSEs at grades C or above? Since you meet the A-level criteria, and since you would probably have good GCSE results, then you should be able to apply. It is impossible to state what anyone's chances are, but you can only give it your best :) .

[japandwell]

I reviewed the BA site a while back. It stated no Advanced Program for pilots who have allready achieved commercial ratings. I have CFI experience and would not be accepted since I am viewed as being too experienced for this type of program.
Has there been any mention of a advanced program in the works? A program that would be modified towards people with ratings allready completed. Anything?

[DNewcastle]

EZY_FR

Thanks! I meet the GCSE requirements, is there anything else you think I should be reading in preparation?

[Libertine Winno]

I find it vaguely astonishing that people are quibbling over the salary from this scheme!

This is by far and away the best cadet scheme out there, with the prospect of starting a long and rewarding career with the national airline. Compare that to paying out for an integrated course with no guarantee of employment whilst having to repay the loan through your own earnings and people STILL speculate as to whether or not the remunerations are worth it?!

[G-F0RC3]

I think this is one of those programmes where you need to be in the right place at the right time as far as your life/career is concerned. You can't be too advanced, nor not advanced enough. Unfortunately for you Japandwell you are in a position I have personally come to refer to as no-man's-land. Moving up will require a huge investment of time and money. But so much has already been invested that it would be difficult to drop it all and move onto something else. To worsen things, there doesn't appear to be any programmes aimed at guys in your position. It appears to me like it's DEP or ab-initio, with nothing in the middle. They either want the luxury of not having to invest in your training, or the ability to instil their own values and methods of working from the start.

[FANS]

It's an outstanding set of T&Cs, and the only scheme in the UK that selects solely on ability not ability to pay. That alone tells you of the dire situation of the UK airline pilot market.

Furthermore, you are joining BA - complete with seniority from the outset. You're not trying to get in during one of the limited DEP windows.

Those that get in will know all of this, and many excellent candidates will not get in due to the limited numbers.

Equally, go in with your eyes open. Flying today is a very different game to even 20 years ago and I fear that those A* students will not find it a suitable long term career.

[G-F0RC3]

It's about job satisfaction, I suppose. For those of us who want this as a career and are incredibly passionate about it, it's hard to see how anyone could consider the BA FPP anything but an opportunity of a lifetime. Anyone who questions its worth are either a) very inexperienced in what the aviation industry is like today, or b) not passionate enough about becoming a pilot to recognise that there is far more to it than merely earning money. In either case, I think those applicants will struggle with the selection process. This is something you've got to want really badly. It's something that you should research thoroughly. It's something that you should prepare for. It's something you should be willing to leave a degree to pursue if it were required. If you're not that committed then you're probably just wasting your time.

[Ispahan]

EZY FR or anyone alse having attended the Flyer show last Saturday, did Lindsay confirmed the potential 60 places this year ? From 95 in 2011, 72 last year and now 60 the competition has never been so tough...

[FANS]

G-F - I agree that you've got to want this really badly, but I'm talking about ten years down the line, when the hassle of heathrow and whatever NG Airbus comes out have got to you. It's then that I think a super-bright individual may look for opportunities outside of direct flight ops (which do exist).

[EZY_FR]

Ispahan

Yes, they're looking for 60 cadets, but since the application window is only open for 2 weeks this time, then it is possible that not as many will apply this time.

[G-F0RC3]

FANS: I don't disagree with that. I suspect it depends on how much you actually like flying. But there are many opportunities within BA away from flying that lots of pilots do as well as (or instead of) flying after some time in the company. :)



Ispahan: Further to what EZY said too, as the programme is now on it's third cycle the top guys (i.e. those selected) from the previous two cycles are no longer in contention. Although there will be lots of brand new applicants who are top notch, it's still a possibility that the competition is slightly weaker within the top n% of the candidates than in previous years. So maybe the odds have never been better? :p

[skyfox2]

EZY_FR thank you for this important new.
Maybe you can help me. I saw program is opened for all people (not only English)
but I absolutely don't know how to compare my studies titles with English one.
thank you again

[magicmick]

Skyfox2, NARIC are the people to equate your qualifications to UK:

NARIC - UK NARIC (http://www.ecctis.co.uk/naric/default.aspx)

[AJNH88]

FYI in case you didn't already know:

CTC Aviation will also be holding live facebook chats with current BAFPP trainees and CTC Wings graduates flying with British Airways. The first of these will be –

1000-1200 hrs UK local time on Sunday 27th October
1800 – 2000 hrs UK local time on Tuesday 29th October
facebook.com/CTCWingsPilotTraining

[skyfox2]

Thanks for answer i sent an e-mail to NARIC!
Anybody has any experience about programs like this one?

[G-F0RC3]

skyfox: Lots of people here are very experienced about programmes like this. Some of the guys here have been successful getting onto the BA FPP over the last two years. There's also a lot of valuable information on the BA FPP website that everyone who is applying should read and ensure they understand. :cool:

[skyfox2]

I just would like to know more practical infos about program (how are selections, how is interview and so on). The website is clear but there aren't the information i'm looking for...

[NathanJohnston]

Does anybody know what the average age of successful applicants were last year? I am assuming that it would likely reopen next year?

[G-F0RC3]

Not sure on an exact average, but it seems most who make it are in their mid twenties. There have - however - been examples of older and younger guys (and girls) making the cut.

[G-F0RC3]

skyfox: Visit the three FTOs websites as well. They have more information on their selection processes on their own websites. However, nobody can reveal the actual specifics of the selection processes (i.e. the exact questions asked in interview or group exercises undertaken), because those things are supposed to be kept confidential in order to keep the playing field as fair as possible.

[skyfox2]

No i don't want to know the questions database. I know it is impossible.:) For example i read interview is about personal experience and not so tecnical questions. Is it true? That's the point.

[G-F0RC3]

Yes, that is true. The interviews won't be particularly technical (although I wouldn't be surprised if they asked for a basic rundown on a jet engine or lift etc). But on the whole the questions asked will be in line with the candidates' experience levels. And considering candidates with zero flying experience can apply, they won't expect you to know a huge amount of technical stuff.

The interviews are competency based interviews. That means they will ask you questions regarding times in your life when you faced x, y, z. Now they're not asking you that just because they want to hear a nice wee story. They want to know how you handled the situation, what you did, how you learned from it etc. There's a tonne of reading you can do via Google etc on this type of interview. :ok:

[momo95]

"I find it vaguely astonishing that people are quibbling over the salary from this scheme! "

Libertino there was no complaining about the salary. Had you read it properly you would see that there was merely a discussion on what it would be. And even if there was "quibbling", everyone is in a different boat.

747craze, if you also read the posts you will see there was a misunderstanding on someone else's behalf and I think everyone did previously know the facts from the ba website. Reading your post you could swear you were head recruiter for ba pilots. I don't know who you think you are trying to knock others over nothing. I myself can't see why ba would want to employ someone who thinks so highly of himself and makes such a sweeping statements about others. So you're a cut above the "'potentials '" then are you ? Bloody arrogant !

G-F0RC3,

"Anyone who questions its worth are either a) very inexperienced in what the aviation industry is like today, or b) not passionate enough about becoming a pilot to recognise that there is far more to it than merely earning money"

I totally disagree with you. I don't know who you had in mind with part b, but it takes some idiot to choose piloting in order to make money above other far better paid professions. I think I speak for most people on here by saying that being a pilot is all i have ever and will want to do. Now I hope to one day fly for ba. However if qatar were to come calling, I would choose them simply for the worker benefits (such as free accomodation, medical care etc.), vast route range (places ill never see on the ba network), the starting salary (far exceeding BA for a cadet position) and lastly, the most important for me is that qatar's career progression is immensely faster than ba. The average time on the a320 atm is just under 3 years. This means within 3-5 years you may very well be flying fo long haul on a 777 due to the massive aircraft orders and confurmed pilot shortages at qatar. Without deviating too much, I know a BA pilot who has been there for 11 years and is STILL on the 320 as an f/o (By which time you may be a 777 captain with qatar and probably considering a move back to the UK to fly for ba). I can presume this as I have spoken to a qatar A346 captain who was only there 9 years.
So ask yourself, if money weren't an issue would you still act so hastily in only applying to BA and dismissing other opportunities ? If you've a brain you will look at the much bigger picture and realise that qatar will give you much more than BA in the long run. Qatar's benefits start right away. This makes up for the huge price tag, (no rent, medical care etc). The only downside is living outside the uk, but with the ratings you could potentially earn at qatar, you may even return to the UK and apply to BA already having longhaul hours.
Inexperienced in the current Pilot market I most certainly am not. Quite the opposite, only a very inexperienced person will turn down qatar for ba even though they were able to make qatar without financial stress.

So i hope now you can see we're not all in the same situation and despite a scheme being the best for you, it may not be the best for everyone !!!

It would be greatly appreciated if everyone can stop making ignorant judgments about one another without knowing all the facts !.


P.S: if you're wondering why I mentioned another programme so much, it's because some people have difficulty understanding that some of us are actually trying to compare schemes and seeing what is best for each person.

[Nelson15]

I totally disagree with you. I don't know who you had in mind with part b, but it takes some idiot to choose piloting in order to make money above other far better paid professions. I think I speak for most people on here by saying that being a pilot is all i have ever and will want to do. Now I hope to one day fly for ba. However if qatar were to come calling, I would choose them simply for the worker benefits (such as free accomodation, medical care etc.), vast route range (places ill never see on the ba network), the starting salary (far exceeding BA for a cadet position) and lastly, the most important for me is that qatar's career progression is immensely faster than ba. The average time on the a320 atm is just under 3 years. This means within 3-5 years you may very well be flying fo long haul on a 777 due to the massive aircraft orders and confurmed pilot shortages at qatar. Without deviating too much, I know a BA pilot who has been there for 11 years and is STILL on the 320 as an f/o (By which time you may be a 777 captain with qatar and probably considering a move back to the UK to fly for ba). I can presume this as I have spoken to a qatar A346 captain who was only there 9 years.
So ask yourself, if money weren't an issue would you still act so hastily in only applying to BA and dismissing other opportunities ? If you've a brain you will look at the much bigger picture and realise that qatar will give you much more than BA in the long run. Qatar's benefits start right away. This makes up for the huge price tag, (no rent, medical care etc). The only downside is living outside the uk, but with the ratings you could potentially earn at qatar, you may even return to the UK and apply to BA already having longhaul hours.
Inexperienced in the current Pilot market I most certainly am not. Quite the opposite, only a very inexperienced person will turn down qatar for ba even though they were able to make qatar without financial stress.


The naivety is beginning to shine through a little with all that!

You must have missed the Qatar cadets who have been qualified for a year, but still never got near an aircraft never mind a widebody. BA provide medical cover as well as loss of licence insurance. The only reason Qatar does is perhaps because the NHS doesn't quite stretch to the middle east and they have to provide something!

If your BA pilot has 11 years in and is still on short haul, that will almost certainly be by choice. He would have been able to bid for long haul years ago if he so desired.

I don't know why anyone would turn down BA, join another outfit to then join BA at a later date, right back at the bottom of the seniority list again!

Ultimately it's down to choice. If you want Qatar, go for it. British Airways is still the childhood dream for many, and this is the best chance many of us will ever have at this career. It isn't all about salary and benefits, though BA is hardly miserly in their pay scales. Some people will prefer to stay in the UK with their friends and family.

[no_problem]

Id like to warned people against my mishap last year. I spendt every minute I had available reading the extremely valuable input of the PPRuNe community, so much so that I missed the application window. A very silly mistake which lead to a very dyre situation.

I am going to apply this year though so if anyone could help me that would be grate.

Thankyou very much. No Problem :)

[momo95]

Nelson15,

Its naive of you to think that doing anything in this business isn't without risk. It looks like you've missed the last batch of ba cadets not long ago who also took nearly just as long to actually start. I mentioned qatar's massive aircraft order which is already starting to materialise and so there is considerably less risk of that happening with qatar this time. Qatar have 175 aircaft on order compared to ba's 59, qatar will clearly have a larger pilot demand and so pose less risk, unless ba are having a mass exodus over the next 2 years. But as i said, there is this risk with ALL programmes. Following your logic we shouldn't join any programme then if that's your stance.

Also, i just said qatar have medical cover, i don't see how that translates as me saying that ba don't !!

"I don't know why anyone would turn down BA, join another outfit to then join BA at a later date, right back at the bottom of the seniority list again!"

I said "may return to the Uk" !!, I just mentioned it as a potential option, which it is. That ISN'T my plan.
I would still love to work for BA though and it was also my childhood dream to do so. And again, staying in the uk is a massive attraction.

Though tbh it's highly unlikely many of us are gonna end up having a choice.

[G-F0RC3]

momo95: Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying. I said "questions its worth", which meant "believed it not to be worthwhile." It didn't mean that I think it's stupid to consider your options carefully, as that's exactly what you should do. But it is quite clearly a worthwhile opportunity, and anyone who were to think otherwise doesn't understand the industry. I stand by that statement, because it's blatantly true. Notwithstanding - I must make it quite clear that none of my posts were directed at you. ;)

But anyway, I have no wish to argue and nor do I intend to. Perhaps everyone should calm down? :p

[momo95]

I understood it first time.
Youre statement is most definitely true for the average guy who thought their dream was never gonna become reality cos of the horrible way training has gone. In that case you apply and give it your all like your life depends on it.
But, for the extremely lucky few who aren't financially restricted, there certainly are other options.
Thats my case in a nutshell.


Btw: i never went for an argument, it just frustrates me when you get ppl on here who cant understand that different aspects of a scheme weigh differently with each person. Whats unimportant to some may be important to others. :)

[Always learning]

As I've become older, I've learned that willingness to seek argument itself demonstrates a lack of maturity, regardless of how correct you might be. In recent years, this has led me to read this website less and less, which used to be an excellent source of information for keen wannabes in the late 90s and early 2000s.

There is a simple recruitment criteria above all others - it's no secret and it cannot be faked. Would I sit next to this chap / lady for 12 hours, then go for a beer with them downroute.

All the answers you need are on the BA site, and the three FTO sites, refined by 2 years of questions directly to the recruitment team. You don't need to read / post to this website to get in and it certainly won't give you the final "edge".

Any competitive process can be as picky as it likes to reduce applicants to manageable numbers, but don't feel bitter about it - choose another route and aspire. Having said that, there is no requirement to have read aero engineering at uni, glided with the Air Cadets, or achieved the dazzling heights of AAAAs at A-Levels. Some lucky souls have those achievements in spades, but most UK pilots are normal with a passion for aviation. Don't be put off from applying if you have the minimum - that is the cutoff and nothing higher.

Finally, most "authoritative" sources in this thread are full of speculative guesswork. Get yourselves to a school visit and ask people in the know instead of on an anonymous forum.

Bon chance!

[Straighten Up]

For what it's worth I'll put my 2c in. I applied last year via OAA. Very late 20s, private sector professional (management level) mid PPL, degree and relatively (although not recently) academic. I got to the 2nd stage but not to waterside and have decided against applying again this year, largely due to the long timeframe of the process, and uncertainty over when you would start training let alone flying. That is purely for personal reasons though as I now have my PPL and want to start commercial training now and also want to do some FI and light/TP aircraft flying before diving into a shiny jet.

I firmly believe that this is the best option out there for flight training and were circumstances very slightly different would be applying again with gusto. I truly hope that one day I end up flying at BA.

Salary should be very low on your factors to consider. The fact that you will have a job at all in this market, and that you will get back your investment (word chosen deliberately) in your training over 7 years is incomparable to any other schemes. If you want good money and travel go into an international sales job.

My advice for the process if you want it.

1 - read the FPP website....fully, then read it again. If you are asking if xyz grades are ok and the answers are on the website, you will struggle.

2 - take time with your application. Get friends family etc to help you and proof read before you hit submit.

3 - brush up on your maths and physics, particularly if like me it is a while since you last did any. Also try some online aptitude tests, especially if you have no idea what these are. They helped me immeasurably on the 1st day at Oxford.

4 - I think my failure was at the interview phase (as opposed to group task) but I could be wrong. My major failing I think was I simply didn't know enough about the industry. I was interested but hadn't done enough research. Read some magazines, websites other than Pprune, look at BAs corporate website and get as much info as possible starting now.

5 - finally be yourself - hopefully yourself is something they find interesting. They are looking not only for future captains but also need to imagine what it would be like to sit next to you for 12 hours in a small room and have a 4 day layover in a far flung corner of the world with only you (and of course the CC) for company.

Best of luck to everyone who applies. I'll follow here with interest and hope to join you one day.

[747craze]

Momo 95 - The post wasn't intended to put anyone down at all and I most certainly did not intend to be arrogant as interpreted. I also dont see myself as a cut above the rest, infact I see everyone as above me!

Apologies to anyone who took it this way, it wasnt intended like that but as momo 95 stated, its just frustrating when people have to reiterate info that is or has been posted, again please accept my apologies!

[pallan]

At first I was elated when I saw the programme was reopening but after reading deeper, I can't apply..... again :ugh:

For the first time I've met the age requirement yet won't get my A Level results until next August. Whilst I understand BA need the assurance that academically applicants are capable for the demands of the training, i don't understand why they open the scheme to 18 year olds as no 18 year old will have A Level results at the time of applying. Now I've got to make the decision of risking not going to university and waiting (hoping) for the programme to reopen, when it may not!
It's annoying as my AS Level results mean I only need 60% on my final exams to meet the requirements which I should comfortably achieve.

[FANS]

pallan - there has to be a cut-off and there won't be a lack of able candidates. Think yourself luck that it's open to those within a 37 year range, and time is on your side to fine tune your application.

SU -

decided against applying again this year, largely due to the long timeframe of the process, and uncertainty over when you would start training let alone flying. That is purely for personal reasons though as I now have my PPL and want to start commercial training now and also want to do some FI and light/TP aircraft flying before diving into a shiny jet

Long timeframe - it could take you ten years+ to get onto a shiny jet with your route!

Uncertainty with when start training let alone flying - going down your right, you've got the certainty of £50k+ but no certainty of a job.

It's completely right to not apply if that's what you want, but those reasons don't seem valid to me and they won't when you're applying for a FI/TP job and they ask why you did not reapply.

[chocsaway08]

Straighten Up & Always Learning posting 2 of the best replies I have seen on this forum. Hollistical approach seems to be the concensus to achiving in this process rather than focusing on where you may or may not meet the exact requirements. :D

[G-F0RC3]

pallan: BA not accepting predicted grades isn't a new thing. It has been like that the last two years as well, although they have gone out of their way to make it abundantly clear on their website this time around.

But some 18 year olds will have A-Levels at the time of applying. And remember, it's not only open to English candidates. In Scotland it's normal to get Higher results while 18-years-old and be perfectly in time to apply for the programme.

Besides, from BA's point of view there may well be legal implications if they tried to exclude 18-year-olds from their recruitment. It might be construed as age discrimination.

[momo95]

"As I've become older, I've learned that willingness to seek argument itself demonstrates a lack of maturity, regardless of how correct you might be."

Always learning,
While totally true, considering there was no argument and everyone recognising the fact there was no intention to argue (myself included), that is completely irrelevant and quite random.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Pallan, it's quite possible to have your A level results at the age of 18, depending on which country you sat them. The same is true for Scottish, Irish and various other European students who will have their A level Equivalent qualifications by age 18. In Scotland it's actually possible to have sat the English A levels (rather than advanced higher or CSYS, or whatever they are now) and have your results in hand whilst still only 17. You could also have sufficient Scottish highers by age 16 (I would have, as would half of my school). In that regard, it makes sense to make potential cadets wait until 18 to apply as if they started earlier they could potentially reach 1500 hours commercial flying while still being too young to hold a full ATPL.

Is there any kind of legal requirement to be 18 to start a CPL, or do you just have to be 18 to have one issued? Beats me.

Edit: ok, so I've basically just reiterated much of what G-FORC3 said! ;)

[momo95]

Mayday and G-F0RC3 are correct, I sat the Irish LC, got my results in August and can apply for equivalent confirmation. I am 18, but I don't see how you haven't got yours as I know many ppl in university who are 18 and have their results. Has it probably got something to do with your age when starting school ?

[G-F0RC3]

Edit: ok, so I've basically just reiterated much of what G-FORC3 said!

That seems to be happening a lot these days! lol :p

Btw Mayday, are you in sunny Spain yet? Can't be long now if not? :E

[Always learning]

Momo - it was directed at many such comments on 62 pages I waded through - most of it misleading. Walk away from the computer and relax - you don't need a comeback to every comment!

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Nope, I'm in a field near Stirling annoying a big power company by not letting them put their pylons on a battlefield! (That said, no evidence of a battle is apparent, just lots of 1960s field drainage...hence why I've been on here all day.)

España in 2 weeks. :}

[G-F0RC3]

momo: That depends on your definition of "argument". I would say that you and Berks were arguing. :\

Glad - however - that it now seems to have stopped. :p

[Phlying_Physicist]

pallan - If I were you I would definitely not risk failing to apply to university on the off chance that you get accepted onto this scheme. Remember, statistically speaking, it's very unlikely that you'd be accepted.

Why not go to university and continue to apply to BA regardless? You can always drop out if accepted onto the FPP (while still enjoying 1st year of university, regarded as the best year of your life by many).

If you study an academically rigorous subject at university, it will make you an immeasurably more attractive candidate to a wide range of well-paid careers.

[G-F0RC3]

The above is excellent advice imo. Not to mention that the experience of going to uni and studying at that level for a year will be a nice addition to your BA FPP application next year anyway.

[G-F0RC3]

Oh getting closer then Mayday. :ok: Must be exciting. :}

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Damn right. Even if I am somewhat fond of my (company issue) yellow wellies. Still, life is all about sacrifices!

[ben1]

Hi Guys,

I was just wondering if any of you have experience with any PILAPT software ? Whether it helps at all or which one is best? Without wanting to count my chickens before my eggs this stage of the process definitely scares me the most! I know PILAPT is designed to test natural ability but I can't help but feel practice would help at least a little bit. Also, I can't help but feel like choosing an FTO may have at least some significance, surely if CTC had one thousand more applicants than FTE for example you would have more chance of passing the initial application you applied to FTE ?

Best of luck to everyone!

[pallan]

Ah, forgot about other countries getting results early! I wish I was Scottish :)

I think I probably will end up going to uni and dropping out if I do get a place on the scheme. Like Phlying_Physicist said, statistically it would be difficult to get on but nevertheless, I'll be going for it if it's announced next year and will just drop out.
The reason I don't really want to do both a degree and the FPP scheme is because I don't want the debt. Although BA give £84k of the loan, it doesn't cover the full £100k which I would probably need plus interest and then a £50k student loan on top (I've applied for a 4 yr degree) would be a lot to handle.

It's just a bit annoying I can't apply this year but I'll just have to get over it and hope I can get on the scheme next year!

[G-F0RC3]

pallan: While it's correct that the numbers are stacked against you, someone will get the job and there's no reason why that couldn't be you. Certainly applying increases your chances of being selected than not. :p

Your debt argument seems pretty logical. However, I'm not sure if you would end up in as much debt as you think. Would you really have a £50k student loan to repay even if you only did a year of the degree? I was under the impression the funding was given to the institution in installments, and therefore any such payments would cease if you left the degree and you wouldn't be eligible to repay those. On that basis you'd only be due to pay about a quarter of the loan that you would have been due to pay had you stayed for the whole course.

Anyway, good luck! :ok:

[momo95]

I'll only write back if i thought someone was being arsey ! Anyway it's over & i'll like to get back to seeing more important things discussed.

[momo95]

The loan repayment threshold has risen to 22k p/a,

[pallan]

I should of explained... if I were to complete the full degree then go on to train to be a pilot (whether BA or not) then I would end up with £50k student debt. If I were to drop out after one year or less I presume it would be between £12-13K

[Nelson15]

You can borrow £5k a year living expenses from BBVA under the BA guaranteed product as well.

[Straighten Up]

FANS

You may have missed my point. 10+ year timeframe for jet for me is something I'm prepared for. I'm not suggesting "my route" is a better/quicker way to get to a jet or BA, quite the opposite. Purely that in terms of where I am in my life personally/family wise, I no longer think this fantastic opportunity fits with what I need. I know that a lot of people may find that hard to believe but there it is. If I was 5 years younger or older or single I would certainly be applying again.

[G-F0RC3]

pallan: I understand now. :ok: But in that case you'd have a degree and could probably get a better job (earning more money). And since student debt has a very low interest rate and only needs to be repaid with earnings above the repayment threshold, it's definitely a good investment in my opinion. Not least because in the event of not getting onto the BA FPP (which for most of us is the most likely outcome) you'd have something concrete to fall back on. :)

Furthermore: choosing the correct degree will pay itself off many times over over the period of your life. :cool:

[squird02]

Hi Guys,

I was wondering if anybody on here is planning to reapply for this years intake? I was fortunate to make it through to the second stage at OAA last year. However, I attained very high marks in all areas of the compass assessment but mis-read the orientation component and so this let me down.

I'm planning to reapply this year but not too sure how to handle the application. Assuming that the questions will be the same (which of course they may not be), I was wondering if you would submit the same responses as one the previous application?. i.e. sections such as responsibilities, duties in past and current employment will be identical. Of course, I would be more than happy to submit an entirely new application if that would be advantageous but I was very happy with my responses and I could possibly use these and modify/add to them if required.

Any adivce would be much appreciated :)

[Jaair]

For those of you have applied in the past; what kind of questions are asked within the application? Do we have to write a personal statement, for example?

Thanks in advance.

[Straighten Up]

Squird

I wouldn't use exactly the same answers. Show them how you have grown in the last year. That being said if you had an amazing example that is still the best you have, then no reason not to reuse but maybe edit slightly. If you got through to round 2 last year I'd be surprised if you didn't this year.

[squird02]

Jaair

Unfortunately I don't think that it would be fair for anybody to provide you with the questions on last years application prior to the application window opening... BA have strict rules that you shouldn't really discuss the specifics in detail as they want to ensure that the process is as fair as possible. However, I can say that they will probably ask for duties/responsibilities held in current and past employment and that there will be some essay based questions. Usually these will be related to aviation and your personal skills.

Straighten Up

Thanks for the info... that's what I was thinking. It's probably a good idea to add to the answers to show development, and possibly re-write some of the essay questions but I guess that ultimately the responses will be similar in a way. I just hope that I would get through the initial paper based application stage again... it would be strange and extremely disappointing if I didn't get past the first hurdle this time round. Are you planning on applying for this years intake? If so, which FTO are you considering?

[ben1]

does anyone know if you have to pass the PILAPT tests to a really high standard and be better than a certain percentage of other applicants ? or is it just a matter of getting past the benchmark set by the FTO ?

Also for anyone with experience of them how hard/nerve wracking are they ?

[EZY_FR]

ben1

The pass mark for the PILAPT test is slightly higher during the BA FPP selection, but not by much. I think they will just select the best performing candidates since I couldn't see how they could it any other way.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Ben, I'd think that they're going to look at marks across the board (pilapt, maths, physics, verbal and numerical reasoning, group exercises and interview). There's probably no need for a quantifiable pass mark as they'll likely have a fixed number of places for final assessments (based on available slots over the allocated number of final assessment days). Realistically, everyone who gets to the final assessment will have performed very strongly in every individual area. It's then down to who can make themselves stand out from a very strong crowd.

This could vary depending on the chosen FTO/ATO; I think I'm right in saying that the CTC and OAA assessments were split over two days/sessions, whereas FTE was all done at the same sitting. Please correct me if I'm wrong, though!

The tests are tough, but actually enjoyable! You can prepare for almost all of it in advance. Doesn't make it less nerve wracking, but you're more likely to do yourself justice. It struck me that there were a high percentage of seemingly excellent candidates last year. So much of it must have come down to very marginal differences, certainly in the latter stages.

Many of those who didn't get to the final stage were offered places at the flight schools (self-sponsored) and a number who fell at either the final or penultimate hurdle then went on to land cadetships through other airlines (personally, I know of four). Possibly a good indication of the quality of many of those who were in the mix. Not that everyone would necessarily be able to finance the other options, but still.

[ben1]

Thanks for your answers!

On a similar note I've seen people mention that they look for improving scores rather than consistently high ones does anyone know if this is the case ? I guess ill just give it my best shot (if I get to the second stage!!) but I would like to know if lots of practice could be shooting myself in the foot somewhat.

Also which FTOs are people choosing and why ?

Cheers!

[GeorgEGNT]

I have to say I'm slightly worried that some posters are getting on peoples backs for their concerns over salary.

If successful you're going to be based in one of the most expensive areas of the UK to live in. Not so much a problem if you've still got your bedroom at Mum & Dads house to live in while you save. Surprisingly though, not everyone is from London & The SE.

While this is a decent deal for guys wanting in to the industry you surely can't forgot that this is a job you're applying for? A job that (lets face it) you're going to be in for a while. A job that has to pay for you down there and other aspects of life (travelling to see loved ones? Kids?). I'd be worried if people weren't making sure this job could be sustainable before applying.

Don't treat such behaviour as a 'lack of commitment towards flying'. Treat it as being realistic.

Good luck to all applying including quite a few of my chums.

[irishoperator]

Well GeorgEGNT the alternative is:

A - forgot about pursuing a career in aviation

B - pay for line training etc yourself

C - apply for a cadet scheme with a lower salary elsewhere.

I can't believe you'd actually be concerned about the salary (which is well above a living wage) given the state of the industry.

It's only for a few years and it's not that expensive to live outside of London.

Also employees who work within airports i.e. shops etc seem to get by just fine on much much lower wages - I know it's not the best comparison.