British Airways Future Pilot Programme.

[gbotley]

FlyVeryHigh,

Correct. Anyone in Ground School can be accepted. To date 6 have attended Waterside. Those 6 are still awaiting the news on the outcome.

I can't comment on this flexicrew stuff though. I'm only saying what has been officially said.

Those I know who have attended waterside had very high Ground School results in the 90s.

[average-punter]

If it is akin to the easyJet flexicrew arrangement it will be interesting to see how management get it past the BA CC.

[DutchC]

I've got a question. BA FPP used to admit about 100+ applications, CTC has about 220 graduates every year, how will they find similar numbers from that pool?

Guess the only reasoning I can think of is that they are intaking nowhere near the same number.

[planesandthings]

I don't think FPP will ever be announced as being scrapped, it'll just drift into distant memory like a lot of things have at BA, they're generally nicknamed "Enhancements". BA has and will simply make a fanfare that they recruit from CTC Whitetail.

As for recruitment numbers, I imagine there's enough DEP recruits that there isn't a great need to rely on cadet pilots. Remember, BA does and continue to cut costs drastically in all areas of the business, the airline has gone through massive change since FPP launched.

But I really hope that the flexicrew rumour remains a rumour, it'd be shameful of the flag carrier to drop to that level and I hope BALPA would get involved, but the ongoing mixed fleet dispute should tell you enough about how the airline is willing to treat it's staff. BA's glamour as the flag carrier is slowly seeping away, they're just another airline. Awfully sad but true.

[wiggy]

I think a few of us know that if a manager at BA has a pet plan they drop it into unofficial discussion in order to test the temperature of the water and start rumour and possibly dissent running.

I hope for one the BACC and membership would put an end to any flexicrew plans PDQ, then again there is the argument that if somebody who is not a member of BALPA wants to negotiate their own contract BALPA can't intervene....I think BALPA has in theory more leverage once people are on the master seniority list.

I'd also commend the comments planesandthings made about T&Cs and the example of mixed fleet. If BA can get away with low T&Cs they will, regardless of tradition/flag carrier etc

[fenny]

I've got a question. BA FPP used to admit about 100+ applications, CTC has about 220 graduates every year, how will they find similar numbers from that pool.
FPP was only expected to run until 2016 so I guess that they recruited enough cadets to meet their needs. It also ran at OAA and FTE so they might have some sort of recruitment links with BA still.

[Fostex]

The FPP was always completely managed by CTC/APL, this was regardless of whether you trained at FTE/CTC/CAE.

[planesandthings]

Worth mentioning though that although BA FPP may now drift into the distant memory. BA Cityflyer has been recruiting over the last few years through an MPL scheme, mostly through FTE Jerez but there have been opportunities through Kura + CTC for modular and experienced airline pilots alike.

[ManUtd1999]

No big announcement from either CTC or BA yet.

Also, Pilots Job Network now says FPP may return in 2018 so maybe this Whitetail recruitment is less of a permanent arrangement and more of a stop gap?

[DutchC]

FPP expected to resume early to mid 2018. No cadet recruitment likely for 2017. Expected to be a shift from ATPL to MPL. Training will be completed with either CTC, FTE or OAA. Visit; - PilotJobsNetwork

How accurate/In The Know are they usually?

[Officer Kite]

That was the rumour doing the rounds until the CTC careers event. Likely hasn't been updated since.

[DutchC]

Yup, you're right, was updated 13th Feb IIRC.

Oh well, that's a shame. It would be nice if BA actually came out and said that FPP was over, or at least a message on pprune, as opposed to vague statements. But as others have mentioned on here, that's unlikely.

However, thanks very much to everyone on here who's provided updates! Despite the gutting news it has been much appreciated.

[tech log]

It would be nice if BA actually came out and said that FPP was over, or at least a message on pprune

Really?

Do Real Madrid post on some random football forum to announce they've signed a player?

[DutchC]

Uhhh, first of all, I've no idea how you've equated British Airways to Real Madrid.

Secondly, I'll refer you to this post: http://www.pprune.org/9432778-post3493.html

:)

[planesandthings]

Lindsay, as the post says, has now moved on from Pilot Recruitment. His posts were always informative but were never official statements from BA.
I'm not even sure who the new manager is, but I'm not holding my breath for any posts on here, just like most of the other threads on here do not have airlines making posts.

As Lindsay said, the delay is undetermined, but what's clear for the next year at least is that BA is unlikely to re-open FPP, so attention should be turned to other schemes and ways into the industry, little point waiting with such uncertainty.

[PilotJames]

Hello guys,
Quick question for any past FPP cadets or anyone in the know. With this course could you take the joint BSc (at CTC) of which you completed the final year while employed by BA?
Cheers

[Inmric]

As far as i'm concerned, yes, you could.

[ManUtd1999]

Update from Pilot Careers Live today:

BA's cadet pilot needs for 2017 and 2018 are being met by FPP cadets currently in training and a small number of CTC whitetails. Needs for 2019 are under review, as is the FPP. We should know the outcome of said review by the end of the year.

The BA recruitment team and pilots genuinley want to re-open the scheme in a similar form but are the first to admit that it will be managements decision, and that the scheme may be very different if/when it re-opens.

[Speedbird148]

Appreciate the update

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

https://www.l3cts.com/news/2017/l3-airline-academy-offers-british-airways-career-upgrade-.html

BA To Pre-select CTC ATPL students.

[magicmick]

A bit of a kick in the teeth for those that have committed an eye watering sum of money to start training at Oxford or FTE only for L3 to strike up an exclusive (for now) deal with BA. Maybe the deal will get expanded to include other schools.

[Chris the Robot]

After the update on here from February, this sort of arrangement was to be expected as a stop-gap until the review concerning future of the FPP is determined. I do wonder if this is an official announcement of the stop-gap in question or whether it is the actual outcome of the review going forward from 2018.

From the mention of 2018 in the press release, I hope it is the former but wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter.

[gbotley]

Thought I'd add my two cents. This partnership has been in play since earlier this year. I believe the school is just re-highlighting it under the L3 brand given CTC Aviation was killed off earlier this year. You'll need decent A levels OR a 2:1 degree to supersede them, 85% ground school average, no deferrals of an exam to another module and not more than one subject fail to qualify for the initial interview process. If you succeed at that point you need first series CPL / IR passes. The start dates with the airline are 2018 onwards. I train alongside of a few successful candidates.

[planesandthings]

A bit of a kick in the teeth for those that have committed an eye watering sum of money to start training at Oxford or FTE only for L3 to strike up an exclusive (for now) deal with BA. Maybe the deal will get expanded to include other schools.

It might be a kick in the teeth to a few, but if you're basing which school to go off purely by the remote chance (considering the amount of whitetails through the doors) of getting into BA then you really haven't got all the marbles, people have their good reasons for going to the various schools.

This isn't even new news, it's simply re-iterating what was said at various careers days since the Spring, you only have to read up the forum to see that L3 is simply regurgitating.

Hopefully one day BA FPP will return for real, this new whitetail cadet recruitment has no bearing or relation to the former. It's a shame it goes against the old FPP principle of training pilots "irrespective of financial circumstances." :(

[ManUtd1999]

Does anyone know if type ratings will be paid by BA? I presume so...

You can see why they do it. BA get access to a known standard of cadet pilots as and when they feel like it without having to decide on and run a recruitment campaign 2+ years in advance. If you're being cynical then the L3 VP being the ex BA head of short haul probably didn't harm either....

The biggest shame is that once again this restricts access to a very select group of people who have all paid 100,000+ upfront. Most companies are willing to invest to ensure equal access, in aviation management are seemingly happy to turn a blind eye. Maybe decency and equality will be given another chance in the future if FPP returns but that seems unlikely atm.

[gbotley]

As far as I have been told, successful cadets are to transition over to the BA FPP course structure. In terms of delivery this changes nothing as the FPP by nature was very much an ATPL to start with. There was talk cadets would need to top-up their bond with L3 to match that of the FPP. But I say this loosely as the contractual particulars are still yet to be worked out given the first tagged pilots wouldn't start on the line until late Summer 2018 at the earliest.

[average-punter]

If you're being cynical then the L3 VP being the ex BA head of short haul probably didn't harm either....

Not at all cynical but obvious.

BA gets pilots on tap at a fraction of the rate of a DEP from a known source and cadets walk into a decent job. Win win. I'm certain everyone at CTC will be falling over themselves to get onto the pseudo BA-FPP scheme.

[sudden twang]

A bit of a kick in the teeth for those that have committed an eye watering sum of money to start training at Oxford or FTE only for L3 to strike up an exclusive (for now) deal with BA. Maybe the deal will get expanded to include other schools.
Even during the FPP recruitment years BA stated that any extra " top up " of cadets would come from CTC white tails. If you were aiming for BA to be your first flying job then all other things being equal,CTC was the way to go. It's just business efficiency on BAs part,fairness doesn't come into it.
Some pilot recruitment advisers/ coaches were advocating CTC for this v reason.

[Fostex]

Probably because CTC always managed the BAFPP cadets. Regardless of whether you trained at FTE, CTC or CAE, along with a BA contract, every cadet signed a contract with Airline Placements Limited (APL) which is/was a CTC (now L3) company.

[DutchC]

Guessing that is the end of the FPP?

[planesandthings]

Who knows, but it certainly isn't coming back for the near future and unlikely in the same form again. There's a different ethos and management at BA now since when FPP began.

[BravoAlphaWhiskey]

Has anyone attended the BA talk at L3 today? Was there anything announced about the FPP?

[planesandthings]

Nothing different to what has already been mentioned above. FPP is dormant, a small handful of exceptional whitetail cadets may get the opportunity to be tagged after GS to fly with BA if and when they need pilots, but it is not 'FPP'.

[perskine]

BA have just reopened their cadet scheme with L3 offering both MPL and ATPL routes depending on ducation background. Sadly however, this one is NOT financially sponsored by BA and is completely self funded :(

Given that BBVA and APL no longer offer the loan service, anyone have any other thoughts on how to come up with the 115k needed?

[BravoAlphaWhiskey]

Rather sad really. I see why they do this from a financial point of view but it highlights so much that is wrong with this profession.