British Airways Future Pilot Programme.

[RMC]

Help- My daughter got her A level resit results yesterday and they were A / B / B... in the Summer she had a B / C / C so couldn't apply for FPP 2.

Does anyone know if the application filters block people who did not get the BBC minimums first time (ideally someone in my daughter's position who got through stage one of the selection process)?

If not does the application form actually include the dates that the qualifications were achieved?

Thanks in advance.

[funkyt111]

@RMC

Your daughter will be fine. As long as she has the certificates stating that she has at least BBC then you will have no problems. BA don't look at first time results.:ok:

Just a word of warning. Being a very critical forum, some people on here will wonder why the parent is finding out questions that she should be finding out herself.

[HongKongCargoPilot]

I got my results yesterday, I worked my nuts off and still only just got the B / B / C requirement.

It's a pain though, regardless of the amount of extra curricular stuff I've done, there'll still be someone applying who has done just as much, and has straight A's to go with it! :( Even then, coughing out just short of £90K isn't exactly easy either, so I'm currently in the process of investigating the modular route, seems alot more likely for someone in my situation! Aswell as that I have also heard a couple of horror stories about candidates who got in, got their ATPL, but then couldn't secure a job at the end of it.

None the less, good luck to your daughter with it all.

[Atropos1]

HKCP don't worry there's a lot more to it than just the initial filters to get through to initial selection. When you get to the interview stage its a much more holistic view of the candidate and the grades to be considered initially form only a small part of that process. If you think it might be for you don't let thoughts of people with better exam results put you off.

[FANS]

Risk management is very important. One way to have no risk is to not leave your house and it's much the same with this scheme.

If BA go bust, the whole industry is knackered. The chances arent worth worrying about.

What's presented on an analysts call and actual future direction are very different things.

This scheme is still fantastic . Candidates joining can't go wrong IF they want to be an airline pilot based in the UK for a long term career...

[helena24]

Hello everyone :)

I'm new here. I've been following this thread for the past couple of months with quite an interest, but after speaking with some local pilots I'm starting to become discouraged. I have every intent of applying to the next round of FPP if they offer it, but I wanted to get your opinion on some things.

First of all, how important is it to have an aptitude for mechanics? I'm a very technical oriented person, but I'm mostly good with software/programming/ etc. I have pretty good knowledge of geology and meteorology, and I could do ok with learning physics, but I am currently far from understanding mechanics perfectly if that makes sense.

Secondly, I have been told that the fact that I am female might get in the way. I have a degree in IT and one in a social science, and I don't want to appear too "girly". So far, I had only one cargo pilot tell me that being a women might be advantageous in the process (since there are fewer overall) but most people have been saying that female pilots inspire less confidence.

So what do you think? I know it's mostly about the individual, and what I can do/learn, but I also know that this might play a part. Any insight from current/past applicants male or female would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

[alosaurus]

Another who got A level results on Thursday and is trying to make a decision on whether to take a load of resits in the Summer in addition to my final exams (to get the BBC first time)... or take my finals in the Summer and the resits next January.

Is there anyone out there who got through the first stage ....but didn't have first time passes on the BBC?

If not... can someone tell me if the date you got the exams is entered in the application forms?
Thanks

[Stocious]

@helena

The selection process is oriented towards you as a person rather than towards your technical knowledge. They work on the basis that you'll be taught what you need in training anyway, though having some background or previous experience would of course assist the training stages.

Being female would not disadvantage you in any way with BA. In fact I think my entire selection process was only ever carried out with female staff and female pilots.

@alosaurus

First time passes isn't a requirement. As long as you have the required grades then you'll be fine. I can't recall if they're entered on the form or not, but your certificates would be photocopied at selection and mine were never mentioned again. Resitting exams could even be turned round into a positive indicator of your desire and determination.

[300-600]

Regarding the first time passes of A levels at BBC grades does anyone actually know someone who got through the first phase having not passed these first time.
I understand the recent posters did not have to resit any exams? If the dates passes were obtained is not on the application form then I guess this would also clear it up once and for all. Cheers

[Stocious]

If they wanted first time passes, they would specify first time passes in the requirements.

Exam dates are included on the application form. I wouldn't worry about this. Some of the exam results from the majority of FPP cadets will be well over ten years ago.

As long as you have evidence of the required grades you will be fine, no matter when or how they were achieved.

[no sponsor]

Helena,

I think those pilots may be pulling your leg. There are plenty of female pilots in BA (I fly with a few of them) and your gender in no way hinders your chances.

[funkyt111]

How have the initial stage 3 applicants been getting on at the final stages? Have BA given any clarification as to when they expect the first lot of cadets to begin training? Did they mention when applicants are likely to hear of the final outcome?

Cheers.

[helena24]

Stocious and no sponsor - thank you for your advice and kind words. I'm pretty certain that I will apply for the next round if BA will offer it. Thanks again. :)

[HongKongCargoPilot]

My latest exam results came back at B/B/C, the minimum requirement for the FPP program and such. I've never been really fantastic academically, but I can hold my own - so to subsitute straight A's, I've been trying to polish off my CV a bit more by doing more flying lessons and work experience.
Am I wasting my time though? When I think about it, I begin to realise that no matter what extra-curricular activities I do, there'll be a candidate who has done just as much and who DOES have the straight A's to go with it.
Also, I can't afford to get my PPL, which I'm sure many other candidates would probably have, and the nearest ATC is about a 50 minute drive away - am I flogging a dead horse in trying to take the intergrated route?
It may be the case that modular is more appropriate for me, then again, that's not exactly cheap either.

[mad_jock]

They arn't looking for straight A's

They know fine that too intelligent and you will become bored :mad: very quickly after training finishes and it turns into a job.

They work the grades so that it keeps the number of applicants at a reasonable level. If the numbers drop they will lower them.

But as part of the selection its just a hoop, the personality side of things is more important more so than the handling to be honest.

[ElliotWestacott]

@HongKongCargoPilot

I also could not afford to do a PPL, and also due to where I live there is just no legal airspace (if your from HK you will know what I mean as they face a similar problem in the city). But this does not stop/hinder you from succeeding.

As long as you have the determination, motivation and aptitude you have a very good chance.

Im at Final Selection now with only a couple of trial lessons under my belt in terms of flying experience. (A few of the people I have met also have little/no flying experience), but this is my dream and I have spent every hour studying and working as hard as I can to succeed. This is what must be done to stand a chance on a course like this.

I hope this helps!

[ETflyer]

What is the maximum loan BA will secure for cadets??

[Libertine Winno]

It's all on the BA FPP FAQ's here;

British Airways Future Pilot Programme (http://www.bafuturepilot.com/faqs/#fin_1)

Question 3 on the finance section.

[ETflyer]

Fantastic thanks for your help :)

[Leftofcentre2009]

Just how far have you successful guys gotten with this now? Have you had your final selections?

I have been watching this thread with interest.

Personally i would not have been eligible anyways and at 36yrs of age have no intention of going back to Uni :rolleyes:.

I used to be an engineer with BA when they run a franchise with Brymon Airways at the former Plymouth City Airport using Dash 8s. I suffered redundancy from that and also previously with MAEL at Luton. I decided to leave the industry in the end and pursed a career out of the aviation industry on the railways. I get paid double what i used to receive as an Engineer and indeed probably substantially more than what some Airline FOs get so it hasn't all been bad news for me.

To that end i am funding me own PPL course and for me that is where my aviation chapter will come to an end. I am loving every aspect of it though and admire all your commitment and enthusiasm.

Best of luck and keep this thread updated with all your progress with BA.

* Aviation enthusiast, traveller and BA Exec Club Silver Member :ok:

[flying_god]

Hey,

Think Final Selections finish this week and we find out who are the best of the best of the best on the 15th..

Sounds like you have done well outside of Aviation, but there were some 40 year olds at all stages of selection if you change your mind.

Regards,

[Libertine Winno]

At the talks when the programme was launched for this year (in November 2012) there were 72 places announced, to be split equally between the 3 schools.

In the 2011 run, there were more (about 90-odd) but OAA received a greater allocation of places as they had the largest number of applicants.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Well today was certainly challenging, but must say that it was generally really enjoyable. Really good bunch of people too.

Best of luck to all.

[champair79]

There were 300 put forward to the final selection day (100 from each school).

From memory, there are 72 places this year with a small number allocated to a standby list. When I attended the CTC selection day, we were all told that there was no allocation from each school - the best 72 would be chosen. Period.

Good luck everyone!

[DaveyG1023]

Evening all, long time lurker, first time posting!

Any thoughts on whether we will find out before the 15th? I was expecting to hear back before then, or maybe that's just wishful thinking as it's certainly a nerve-racking wait.

Should I stop refreshing my emails and just wait for that fateful day?!

[bex88]

when in a similar position my dog just looked at me and you could see she was saying "your kidding this is our 4th walk today" Cant rush it I am afraid, hang in there.

[Macho Grande]

11 days....
:ugh:

[southernjock]

Long days!

[SkyRocket10]

Word is that there may have to be a further round of interviews for new candidates, as the number meeting the required standard has fallen drastically short. The maths & VR tests seemed to have caused the biggest problems.

[squarehole]

Not graduating until next summer, hope it is still running by then! Working 2 (and considering a third) jobs right now just to fly! Ugh :ugh:

[Depone]

Word is that there may have to be a further round of interviews for new candidates, as the number meeting the required standard has fallen drastically short. The maths & VR tests seemed to have caused the biggest problems.


Plenty of experienced pilots passed those very same tests (let's face it, they were very easy!) in 2011 when BA were planning on taking on 800 pilots, including a majority with experience flying for airlines...

Then the bean counters at BA saw P2F as the way ahead and joined the rush to the bottom.

A shame. However, I don't blame people for applying. It's got to be the best opportunity going.

[Hamsterminator]

Word is that there may have to be a further round of interviews for new candidates, as the number meeting the required standard has fallen drastically short. The maths & VR tests seemed to have caused the biggest problems.

That surprises me. I would have thought the Aptitude tests were where the biggest stumbling block was- anyone who attended will likely know what I am referring to...

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

That surprises me. I would have thought the Aptitude tests were where the biggest stumbling block was- anyone who attended will likely know what I am referring to...


I certainly know which one I found the hardest!

Of course, that's not to say I didn't make a pig's ear of something else.

(Incidentally, I've only just worked out how to quote people. It's very exciting.)

[SkyRocket10]

Plenty of experienced pilots passed those very same tests (let's face it, they were very easy!) in 2011 when BA were planning on taking on 800 pilots, including a majority with experience flying for airlines...

The FPP tests are completely different, and from what I understand relatively new this year.

Its more than just those tests though, thats what I am pinning my hopes on!

You must pass each & every element of the final selection day.

[Hamsterminator]

You must pass each & every element of the final selection day.

Passing isn't designed to be overly hard though. That might sound like an odd thing to say- but minimum pass criteria are just that, minimums. You can potentially get the minimum score in one test yet do incredibly well in other elements and that can swing it in your favour.

I think this is what the previous post about pinning hopes was implying.

You are of course right that you need to pass each element. However it is sometimes possible to score below 50% in a test and still "pass".

[Depone]

The FPP tests are completely different, and from what I understand relatively new this year.

What makes you think that?

[DaveyG1023]

The FPP tests are completely different, and from what I understand relatively new this year.

What makes you think that?

They were no different to the ones the year before, both sets of selection were fairly identical, bar the new venue.

[SkyRocket10]

Quote:

Quote:
The FPP tests are completely different, and from what I understand relatively new this year.
What makes you think that?
They were no different to the ones the year before, both sets of selection were fairly identical, bar the new venue.

All I know is that they are definitely not the same tests used in the last round of DEP recruitment.

[Macho Grande]

Word is that there may have to be a further round of interviews for new candidates, as the number meeting the required standard has fallen drastically short. The maths & VR tests seemed to have caused the biggest problems.
SkyRocket10 - Are you Lindsay Craig or part of the selection team? How could you know this?

Plenty of experienced pilots passed those very same tests (let's face it, they were very easy!) in 2011 when BA were planning on taking on 800 pilots, including a majority with experience flying for airlines...
Depone - When I spoke to Lindsay on the day he told me that part of these tests were designed specifically for the FPP and had not been used before (FPP). In fact I had the same query as yourself, how had veteran pilots fared in the same tests? Were thay an accurate indicator? Answer was he didn't yet know as they hadn't sat them. Experts from the brain school at RAF selection Cranwell were responsible. They know their :mad: so I would have to err that know what they are doing.

You must pass each & every element of the final selection day.
Passing isn't designed to be overly hard though. That might sound like an odd thing to say- but minimum pass criteria are just that, minimums. You can potentially get the minimum score in one test yet do incredibly well in other elements and that can swing it in your favour.

Correct!! There are minimums to achieve but at the end of the day, you could have scored 90% across the boards... but if 2 out of 3 people scored 91% then you are at the bottom of the grade curve!! You can be the best of the best (sir!!) but if the other guys in the room on the day pip you at the post then that's tough luck. A rising tide lifts all ships and all that.

I for one know that I let myself down on a particular aspect of the selection and given the stiff competition for this prize I would say that I'm likely to pushed to one side. However... if a lot of other people slipped on the same hurdle, then potentially I could still be in the running.

You can beat yourself up and carve up the day 100 ways good and bad. You can't know 100% where you have fallen down if you don't make it as you weren't the one with the score sheet. Unless of course you sat mute through the interview - I would say that would likely be a stop light.

Best of luck to you all... unless you were in my group, in which I hope that they have shredded all your paper work. :ok:

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

I seriously doubt any further round of interviews will occur for this years intake. I would not be surprised if there was some truth to a large number of 'casualties' as a result or NR and VR test results. Standards across the UK in these two areas have been in decline for some time.
Glad to hear candidates are still having 'fun' with the PILAPT tests. :ok:

[Depone]

SkyRocket10 - Are you Lindsay Craig or part of the selection team? How could you know this?

And you seem to (think you) know a lot too, but I suspect you aren't part of the selection team either;)

If you look back through BA interview and aptitude test threads over the last 15 years on Pprune you will find that not much has changed. They were always likened to a watered-down version of RAF tests. Unsurprisingly, the aptitude tests and teamwork exercises at CTC were almost identical.

I suspect the tests for inexperienced pilots are indeed now slightly different, bearing in mind you're testing for aptitude rather than ability. It always seemed odd to test the aptitude of pilots with experience to see whether they've the 'right stuff', but that's BA recruitment for you.

Correct!! There are minimums to achieve but at the end of the day, you could have scored 90% across the boards... but if 2 out of 3 people scored 91% then you are at the bottom of the grade curve!!

Obviously there are minimums but I am pretty certain they're low. As for those with the highest overall average getting through, no, I think that is too simplistic. I am sure that a candidate who gets average grades but does well at the personality interview and ok at the group exercises, will get the nod. It is not about being a genius. They are looking for the BA type - and they are not all Chuck Yaegers, believe me.

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

I suspect the tests for inexperienced pilots are indeed now slightly different, bearing in mind you're testing for aptitude rather than ability. It always seemed odd to test the aptitude of pilots with experience to see whether they've the 'right stuff', but that's BA recruitment for you.

The tests are the same. They are however 'reactive' and as no two people (experienced or otherwise) are the same, they will sit the same tests but have differing experiences. The program adapts to the user's input to give a true test of items such as 2D and 3D tracking, information processing, selective attention and task prioritisation and a couple of other bit and bobs too.

[Macho Grande]

Depone - I really don't mean to come across as a know it all, simply because I don't!! I was only trying to make the point that it almost doesn't matter how well you have done (within reason obviously) yourself. It's how you have fared against the others on the day.

I do however reluctantly agree with you. The tests were not MENSA level hard. They were challenging (to me) and I dare say that a human calculator would eat through them with some ease. Marrying that ability together with strong natural leadership and the personality that would not have your oppo in the flight deck reaching for the proverbial eject handle however is NOT common place. It is in this that I trust is where the BA spectrum of tests is focused.

It has been shown on more than one occasion that the individual who stands tall in the face of a challenge is not always the captain of the football team or the loud and brash - but instead Mr Average who has the ability to excel.

BA have to select those they feel will become the extraordinary without them having experience in the profession. Why make it so hard or elite that you limit your resource pool? It makes sense to allow the masses to apply and then cream off the best.

I might be misinterpreting but I get the feeling that some people think BA are dumbing down the selection or lowering standards. If the majority of the candidates on my days are anything to go by I can assure that's not the case.

You raise an interesting point about the BA tests being a watered down version of the RAF tests. The OASC process is remarkably similar to parts of the FPP. Aptitude tests (conducted by the school) tested the same abilities of aptitude. Yet there is a unique difference to selection in a commercial pilot to RAF pilot - often dubbed the 'right stuff'. RAF selection gets you in the front door, officer training, basic flying then streaming you and pushing for (cutting on the way) single seat fast jet. One in ten of pilots making it that far? Commercial selection over the last 20 years has moved away from the Top Gun gods to the team playing managers. A fundamental difference, ultimately showing the right stuff tends not be suited to the commercial seats. If you sat in your interview blowing off that you could fly a banana through the eye of a needle and didn't mention customers, then maybe commercial isn't for you.

I don't mean to come across preachy but I think it's something that is fundamemental now. It's not just pilot skills. You HAVE to be the commercial guy too!

- End rant

[Flow Wedge]

Interesting Macho Grande. On some days though, the customer couldn't give a stuff about the pilots 'service' skill. He just sits there, grips his armrests and hopes to his God that the motherf@cker up the front CAN fly a banana through the eye of a needle.

You're right though, modern flag carrier operations demands some super soft skills from it's cockpit control manipulators.

[iamaroman]

Hello fellow dreamers,
new to the forum - not sure this is the right place to post this, I'll give it a go anyway.

I am currently finishing a four year BBA degree and wish to become a pilot. I have two options:

1. Apply to OAA

2. Wait 1 year and risky applying for the next FPP

So, my question is, what is the risk of waiting an extra year and applying for BA FPP? Obviously no one here can tell me for sure, but I would have a degree (2:2, maybe 2:1) from a decent uni, I have some gliding experience (4hours), and I am familiar with the Airline industry (family).

If I choose to go directly into OAA, is it a possible to apply to the FPP in the middle of my APL training?

Do BA even recruit graduates who aren't on the FPP?

Thank you

[iSeven]

Hello everyone! Does anyone know if and when will a new British Airways Future Pilot Programme take place? I am almost graduating from high school so I was looking forward to apply, but I am a tad late for this one :(

Best regards!

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

@iamaroman

BA is currently only recruiting into the FPP scheme. Mid-course recruitment is not an option with FPP.
I would suggest you attend the Professional Flight Training Exhibition in the Sofitel T5 at LHR on the 20th April and meet the BA team at their stand.

2013 LONDON PROFESSIONAL FLIGHT TRAINING EXHIBITION (http://exhibitions.flyer.co.uk/london_20_apr_2013.htm)

[1 2 Be A Pilot]

Hi guys,
I have just joined after seeing all you helpful people on this website. Furthermore, I cannot explain how much I love and have a passion for becoming an Airline Pilot and really want to do the FPP. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone could help me with a few of my questions.
1) do you have to be really good at physics to train at CTC?

2) what are the chances of not getting employed after the completion of the FPP?

3)How many years do you think British Airways will run this program?

4)What GCSE's and A-Level's will be advantageous for this FPP?
(I really would like a good answer for this one if possible)

Thanks A LOT guys in advance? I will have more questions soon. Please reply.:cool:

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

Welcome 12 Be a pilot.

Please use the search function as all of these questions have been answered.


In short 1- No

2- depends entirely on the world and BA's requirements after you finish. Crystal ball stuff really.

3- crystal ball again

4- do what you enjoy and can do well in. Apart from the usual suspects (geography, physics, maths) have a look at getting involved in subjects such as drama, sports and others in which you need to be involved with others.

[DaveyG1023]

@iamaroman

Do BA even recruit graduates who aren't on the FPP

In theory yes, but the only cadet entry to BA would be through CTC (not OAA or any other FTO). Although, if I'm honest I feel that is a fairly long shot that they will pick up any extras outside the FPP. It's up to you whether you want to wait a year (no guarantees on the exact time frame though) and give the FPP a go, it can't hurt though as you sound like you could always do OAA as a backup.

[no sponsor]

I'd expect BA to run the FPP for the next 2-3 years recruiting around 300-400 people in total over its duration. The current batch in training are expected to start joining in Aug/Sept depending on flight ops not having a pilot surplus and available training slots on the Airbus. There's lots of space in the 737 sims, but the fleet is now being wound down in favour of the Airbus.

If I were a betting man, I'd say next years recruitment would be at about the same time as the last one.

[tggzzz]

4)What GCSE's and A-Level's will be advantageous for this FPP?
(I really would like a good answer for this one if possible)This is surprisingly easy for you to answer, but not for anyone else.

Obviously you will try to guess what you want to be doing in 30 years time, and will work out what you need to do in order to get there. You will probably guess incorrectly. Trite, obvious, boring, valuable.

However, nobody knows what the future holds, so a very good strategy is to try to avoid limiting your future options. Since every choice you make will limit your future options, a useful trick is to work out which paths you will never want to follow. From that you can determine which subjects you don't mind dropping.

Alternatively, determine the subjects that you like which will be useful in a wide range of careers. I would go for science subjects, but that's irrelevant to you!

Don't forget to distinguish between what you will enjoy doing as a hobby and what you will enjoy doing in a job.

In addition, get experience in non-academic spheres; human resources droids like that, particularly anything indicating you can be a "team player". (Not really sure what they mean by that, but possibly that you don't complain about being a dogsbody.) Consider doing the Duke of Edinburgh's Award; my daughter did and it was amazingly valuable for her - and not just because she learned to fly gliders as the "skill" part of the award.

[Hamsterminator]

So Monday is D-Day! Who will be refreshing their emails *constantly* ?!?

I was half hoping we might find out before then. Looks like it will indeed be monday madness though. Good luck all :)

[EZY_FR]

Since Monday is the apparent D-day for everyone, I would like to wish everyone waiting for their reply the best of luck. You have all worked very hard to get to this stage so even if you don't get the place, then realise that BA obviously like you and you can take on the experience on elsewhere.

[pug]

Good luck for Monday everyone. Some great people going for this so a tough decision I'm sure.

[flying_god]

Good luck guys and girls...

Those of us who don't make it, remember that by getting this far we have shown that we can be pilots.

We may just need to take a different taxiway to the sky...

[Wirbelsturm]

remember that by getting this far we have shown that we can be pilots.

Just a pedantic point, no you haven't, you've shown you have the aptitude to commence the training and a possibility of passing it.

The flight 'training' will show if you can be a pilot or not, not the aptitude 'testing'.

Good luck to all.

See you on the line someday perhaps. :cool:

[giggitygiggity]

Do BA even recruit graduates who aren't on the FPP

Again, as the above person said - in theory, yes. But they will only take people that have not completed the AQC (the MCC/JOC course). This means that they would select you at some odd point during the training, which seems unlikely as for half of it you will be out in New Zealand. The only time I could really see them taking people on was either in groundschool or in the waiting period before the AQC starts (we waited about 6 weeks but can be longer, can be shorter of course!). This is a very narrow margin of availability so it is pretty unlikely. If you were perused by BA, there would be a supplement to the course cost (although I have no idea what that is anymore).

In short, NO. They haven't been for a long time and it is very unlikely. Your best bet would be to go and apply for the FPP and hope that you get in!

[iamaroman]

Is CTC necessary? It's just I actually prefer OAA and they did have OAA as an option for the last FPP?


BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES, thank you for that - I will definitely attend.

[funkyt111]

All the best to everybody tomorrow. I wish you all the best of luck. I met some great guys on my day and it would have been a pleasure to work with you all. :ok:

[Ianp83]

Best of luck for tomorrow to those waiting to hear.

[flying_god]

CTC have opened applications for the Easyjet MPL today.. Nice timing!

[naturals]

Sat here anxiously waiting for the e-mail.

I'm not overly optimistic so today could be an extremely nice surprise!

Good luck to you all.

[DaveyG1023]

Same for me - trying to keep my mind distracted on other things. Only a matter of time...

All the best!

[andre1990]

Can i ask what news you guys are waiting for today?

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Same for me - trying to keep my mind distracted on other things. Only a matter of time...

All the best!

Likewise!

I actually wish I didn't have the day off work.

It's too early to go to the pub, right? Just kidding. (sort of) ;)

Best wishes, folks.

[naturals]

Can i ask what news you guys are waiting for today?

Today we should be hearing back from BA as to whether it's a yay or a nay.

[andre1990]

All the best guys, all the best!

[Flow Wedge]

Good luck folks . . . :ok:

. . . all good things come to those that wait (patiently). . .

[Hamsterminator]

Anybody heard back yet? I thought perhaps the emails were ready and waiting to be sent today but my inbox remains barren...

[Orangaphobia]

I've received every email under the sun today but still not the right one!

[captain_spud]

Same here, the reload button is still getting overworked...

[flying_god]

Did anyone else get the impression from the interviews that whilst "no flying experience was necessary", that if you didn't have much they wanted to know why?

I was left feeling that if you had the means to pay for a PPL and had not, it counted against you.

[bex88]

Don't panic. I understand that the selection team may require a little more time whilst they deliberate. You should receive a email but it may just be to say they are extending the time to come to a decision. That is from a rock solid source but things do change. No email is not bad news. I am sure they will be working to let everyone know ASAP. The only thing you can be sure of is change. Good luck all.

[Hamsterminator]

Don't panic. I understand that the selection team may require a little more time whilst they deliberate. You should receive a email but it may just be to say they are extending the time to come to a decision. That is from a rock solid source but things do change. No email is not bad news. I am sure they will be working to let everyone know ASAP. The only thing you can be sure of is change. Good luck all.

Appreciate that info Bex88.

Unfortunately it's not the yes or no that killing me at the moment, it's the not knowing! It was a month since I least spoke to or heard from anyone at BA. If it gets put back even longer that's going to be pretty uncomfortable.

[funkyt111]

The only thing you can be sure of is change

Hi thanks for the update. But what do you mean by change??

[bex88]

Nothing more than, what I said would be wrong and you would all get the emails today. They are working on it. I guess because you guys have put so much effort into this it's good that if extra time is needed it's given so as to ensure every candidate is given as much consideration as needed. It is the hardest part now....the usual hurry up and wait

[andre1990]

When was the application process for this open, back in Dec?

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

When was the application process for this open, back in Dec?

Kicked off in November.

[funkyt111]

Thanks Bex. It sounds as though they are looking to re-evaluate any decisions they have come to so far. The suspense is killing me! However, if it means waiting that little extra to ensure that the selection team come to a conclusive decision then so be it!.

[Flow Wedge]

. . . Agreed.

:cool:

[Hamsterminator]

Is it wrong to expect some kind of contact from them (even to say they're still working on it)?

I would call up but i'm at work...:confused:

[bensmth24]

Anyone heard yet?

[Orangaphobia]

In their defence; at our final selection day they [Lindsay Craig] did say "on or around the 15th" during that lunchtime presentation.

So perhaps tomorrow is D-Day!

[my_call]

Devastated! I assume everyone else is getting their responses now. It's a much tougher road from here. All the best to those that made it. I'm sure you'll make great airline pilots.

[future captain]

Second time unlucky for me. Doesn't get any easier :(

[DaveyG1023]

Got the good news myself - absolutely delighted.

I can empathise with those that were unsuccessful this time having been through it myself once and got the rejection before- it was a case of second time around for me, so don't give up!

[naturals]

A big fat no for me sadly. I had a feeling my interview was below average (everyone else commented on how easy it was, I had a slot with less than usual time and was rushed all the way through - I have a feeling that impacted the answers I was giving).

Oh well!

Congratulations to those who made it.

For those that didn't make it - chin up and see you next year!

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Well I got a "yes"!

Think I need a wee sit down and a nice cup of tea.

Much like the guys/gals above are saying, commiserations to anyone who didn't jump the last hurdle. I was fully mentally prepared for a knock back. Hadn't entirely anticipated a positive response.

Looking forward to getting stuck into some hard work in the not so distant future. :)

[flying_god]

Well done to those who made it.. First time unlucky for me..

I think the CTC Easyjet MPL will be my next target.

[bex88]

For those that got selected a very big congratulations. A lot of work awaits but so does a lot of opportunity. I look forward to flying with you. For those that did not get selected don't beat yourself up but i know you feel sick right now. You made it this far and that speaks volumes and that should not be under estimated. Reflect on what you did achieve, how many applied and did not get as far as you. Take encouragement from that and take time to consider you future. MPL schemes, flight school, BA FPP 2013-14? Don't make a rash decision straight away.

There are many many pilots in BA who have fallen at first only to grow as a person and/or as a pilot and then succeed.

[WhosKiddingWho]

Congratulations to all who applied, it has been stressful for you (and your parents).
Some of you now have to face the reality of raising 84k (plus) in a recession, on the promise of a job, sometime, hopefully.

We get to keep our house and life, for now.

[Tom061991]

Hi all. I'm still waiting to hear either way! I'm taking that as everyone seems to have found out that this may mean bad news??

[Tom061991]

Any else still waiting?? I'm taking the fact I haven't heard is bad news!

[Smell the Coffee]

Congrats to those that got in!

Question to those that just missed out...did you get your email with a letter attached or just an email?

[funkyt111]

Smell the Coffee.

Are you asking this because you've not received an email? I have not received an email into my inbox but when I log into BA that the email has been sent but I cannot see the attachment.

[Smell the Coffee]

Correct.

Frustrated!

[my_call]

It was an email with a letter attached.

Subject: Future Pilot Programme Assessment Response

[funkyt111]

:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\

It's horrible isn't it!! I wonder if any other people are having the same problem. Which school did you apply to?

To answer your question, I am pretty sure that everyone receives a PDF attachment. All the emails that were sent out will be the same. The only difference will be the attachment letter.

[Smell the Coffee]

Thanks my_call

Applied to OAA...so basically we're none the wiser. Not a pleasant position to be in when you can read all the responses above and everyone else has got their email... :(

[southernjock]

Obvious question but going to ask it anyway: it's not gone to your Junk email box?

My disappointing email was an email with the letter attached.

Personally I am gutted but its good to know so I can move on.

Time for self funded, modular, plan B!

Congrats to all those that were successful.

SJ

[Hamsterminator]

Obvious question but going to ask it anyway: it's not gone to your Junk email box?

My disappointing email was an email with the letter attached.

Personally I am gutted but its good to know so I can move on.

Time for self funded, modular, plan B!

Congrats to all those that were successful.

I'm in the same boat as you mate. Good luck to both of us :)

[Hamsterminator]

Can anyone offer me some advice at this stage?

Basically I think i'm at something of a catch 22 situation.

Firstly, I can't afford to go straight for an integrated course (which is why I was trying for this FPP). Secondly I was prior to this assessment trying to gain entry into the aviation world via the modular route, and am at a position now to gain my ground ATPL exams and go for a CPL.

Unfortunately gaining a CPL would then render me unable to apply to future FPP programs. Do I hold off on the flying and try to do the FPP again if and when it reappears, and gain entry directly into the top of the foodchain as far as piloting is concerned, or do I avoid wasting time and possible future failure by taking things into my own hands, and taking considerably longer to work my way into an airliner?

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

CTC have opened applications for the Easyjet MPL today.. Nice timing!


I'm not in the least bit surprised, nor should you be. The great merry-go-round of cadets continues.
Commiserations to those unsuccessful, congrats to those who were successful at this stage.

[bensmth24]

Anyone know how many were successful?

[propilot9]

Are there still people out there that haven't received the Email yet?

[Smell the Coffee]

I still don't know...no email.

And I received every one before that.

Talk about taking the wind out of my sails..recruitment are resending some emails out.

[propilot9]

That makes two of us then...

[my_call]

Hamsterminator,

In the same situation as you mate. As I don't really have a clue as to why I didn't get the ultimate tick, suffice it to state that I know I generally and inexplicably didn't perform anywhere near my best on the day of all days, I think waiting around for another year on the fleeting hope that I may get through next time is rather leaving it too much to chance. I prepared wholeheartedly and it didn't work out. Had I been a few years younger, it may have been worth more contemplation to leverage on the experience and wait for the next opportunity.

So to Plan B, I would have preferred an EASA integrated course as well if I could find some way to fund it, debt or not. However, as it is, it's out of the question. The next best route I decided is then to enrol in a full-time Part 141 course to obtain an FAA CPL/IR and CFI with Optional Practical Training, which I can just about afford when taking into account subsistence and other commitments. I will then probably have to revert to my current career to save myself from bankruptcy and work towards conversion to an EASA CPL/IR. Naturally, it will mean deferring the ATPL exams towards the tail end of my pursuits. This may mean I am potentially eligible to re-apply for the FPP if there is another one next year. A concern would be whether I have enough finances remaining at that stage to fund two more years of not working, subsistence and other commitments, as well as additional monies required by the chosen flight school - a bridge I will have to cross then.

The future is not for us to see, but I suppose one must be thankful for the experience and now forge ahead through other avenues.

Good luck whatever you decide!

[funkyt111]

That makes two of us then...

That makes three of us...

[ManUtd1999]

Did anyone get through with little/no flying experience (a couple of trial flights), or was it mainly people with PPLs and the like?

[no sponsor]

For those of you who got to the final stage and failed, then don't make any rash decisions. Spend a month or two to think about your future. There are plenty of pilots in BA who took several attempts to get into the company. It took me 2 attempts, but I know of a few who got in on their 4th attempt!

Its my feeling that for those of you who could afford a integrated course then I think this would be better then modular. As much as I loathe CTC and what they have done to T&Cs in the industry, I would expect that if you could get into EZY, then a step to BA in future years would be one which you could probably make, dependent on BA DEP requirements.

Congratulations to those who received the good news; the hard work begins!

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

I can reaffirm Taggus's position. I've only had a couple of flying lessons too. I felt my past experiences (whether personal or professional) and motivations were focussed on far more heavily.

I'd certainly imagine that flying experience is only going to be a benefit, but apparently it's not everything.

[DaveyG1023]

Did anyone get through with little/no flying experience (a couple of trial flights)


I got through with a little (~5 hrs) flying. As previously has been said, it's definitely not just about flying (although when I applied first time around I had zero hours and I would definitely advise getting some flying as at least you can say you enjoy it!). My interview and application were very much focused on my different life experiences and other soft skills which they are definitely looking for.

Remember, BA are putting us through this to train us, they know they aren't taking on experienced pilots so don't splurge on a PPL just to make yourself a 'better' candidate, get some life experiences instead.

[mt623]

I also got through with only a few trial flights under my belt. I agree with the guys above that the emphasis on softer skills is just as important as your aptitude.

Just wondering, any of the successful guys heard back from their FTO yet?

Commiserations to those who didn't get in, every single person I met at each stage was incredibly friendly and passionate, keep going and you will make it!

[Bearcat F8F]

Hamsterminator (http://www.pprune.org/members/342768-hamsterminator), I would say it depends on your other circumstances too. Do you have a job to keep saving up for an extra year or so before the result of the next FPP is known? If yes, well then you could always use the time to save up on top of what you already have to fund the modular route. And if you aren't successful in the next FPP, at least you will have some extra money to put forward for your flight training... maybe you could fund a TR or a CFI or something else to make yourself more sell-able. That way a year doesn't go to waste.

All in my opinion. I got kicked out in stage 2 of this year's FPP. I intend to work hard for the next year and save up to complete the fATPL and MCC by going modular. This will be my back-up plan if I don't make it into the FPP next year.

It really depends on whether you want to take the risk and matter into your own hands as opposed to sitting around for your entire life hoping that one day a cadet scheme will work out for you. Personally I wouldn't hang around forever. That's just me though... different approaches work for different people :ok: (but it's always a gamble :E )

[ajb13]

Did anyone from FTE get through on here?

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Did anyone from FTE get through on here?

Yup, I'm with FTE. :)

[Hamsterminator]

It really depends on whether you want to take the risk and matter into your own hands as opposed to sitting around for your entire life hoping that one day a cadet scheme will work out for you. Personally I wouldn't hang around forever. That's just me though... different approaches work for different people (but it's always a gamble )

Thanks for the advice Bearcat. Yeah the above is pretty much the point i'm at decision wise. I will be 30 next year and while that is hardly ancient it does mean I am at the point where I don't want to be hanging around year after year on the off chance I make it through on one of these programmes, particularly when the competition is so intense.

I can see myself becoming a flying instructor without too much difficulty in the next year, but there onwards things get more clouded. If more airlines accepted people with modular CPLs and little experience things would look a little more rosey. On the other hand the employment market does seem to be getting fractionally more desperate for pilots. Perhaps they will relax their entry requirements fractionally (experience wise).

I am advised by my flying instructor just to get the CPL and position myself as employable and then hope for the best. I just would much rather have the relative security of something like the FPP behind me!

[bex88]

I second what northern monkey has said. Finding a job even if on a integrated course will be very very tough. It largely comes down to good fortune and dare I say it the ability to self fund your TR

[G-F0RC3]

Huge congratulations to those who made it! Commiserations to those who didn't.

I think it's true to say that if you didn't make it this time around then you should try again next year; and the following year; and the following year... until it stops running. The signs from the industry appear to be good as far as these programs are concerned, so going into an intensive integrated course off your own back at the moment seems to be illogical (unless you have £million in the bank). And if you go to the next FPP then think how much experience you'll have from having attended this one? Not to mention the fact that you can tell them you were prepared to wait and go through it all again, because that's how badly you want it and how hard you're prepared to work for it.

But if you're going to do that then you better make sure you do something over the next six months to improve yourself. What fails this time will probably fail again, so evolve guys!

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

I second Northern Monkey's comments!

[Future_Pilot_Pal]

I am tired of this presumption many make that only those with wealthy parents can go through the integrated route. The majority of those on integrated routes are heavily in debt. It would actually be more difficult for some to secure funding to go through the modular route if they didn't have the funds available. True it would be a hell of a lot cheaper. But unfortunately as many have said before unless your on a tagged scheme like the FPP. Your chances of securing employment (these days) mainly in Europe are low, but almost none existent if you have gone the modular route.

Congratulations to all who got accepted and commiserations to all those who didn't. Don't give up on the dream. :ok:

[funkyt111]

Hey guys, unfortunately I was also unsuccessful. I've spoke with recruitment team and they have said that the this years Future Pilot Programme is scheduled to take place the same this year as last. So heads up and lets keep on going. :ok:

[mad_jock]

I've come across several unemployed modular pilots.

There are more than a few intergrated as well in fact more than a couple of hundred who are currently mailing anybody with an AOC in Europe. In fact the majority of cold applications are with 170-220 hours. Some have even stopped putting the school on and dropped the JOC on them because they are applying to fly a TP. Buts its still obvious where they come from. The CV styles of the schools stick out like a sore thumb.

Most are in the 20-25 year old range 95% plus of them are male. And there is rarely anything which separates them from each other.

It doesn't matter how you train you are getting yourself into a very hard market even if you are on a "tagged scheme" and do brilliantly there are still pit falls. Quite what the Flybe MPL's are going to do is still to be discovered.

You get people asking for advise where ever you go supermarkets at checkouts, bars etc. A lot of the time you think how they hell do they know what you do for a living. You get friends of relatives phoning them to ask if you can "help" with some brat that's had a really some really bad luck etc etc, but he went to the best school in europe. Its not bad luck its just normal. Miss Ryanair and your stuffed.

You can't tell them you wouldn't touch them with a barge pole for another 1000 hours and actually the training they have is completely unsuited to your airlines operation.

To be honest if you don't have the cash in your pocket and can't afford to loose the course price don't train full stop. That's what ever method you choose to do.

[G-F0RC3]

I am tired of this presumption many make that only those with wealthy parents can go through the integrated route. The majority of those on integrated routes are heavily in debt.

Perhaps a disambiguation is required here. I think what most people mean when they refer to "wealthy parents" is parents who own a house and are willing to use it as security for their son/daughter to get an enormous loan in order to fund integrated flight training. So, while you're correct that most who go the integrated route are in a lot of debt, at least they have that opportunity. Thousands more don't have any family help (for a variety of reasons), and therefore have no chance of getting the required funds to make their career ambition a reality. I'm quite sure many aspiring young pilots would happily trade being in a tonne of debt for the opportunity to train and become an airline pilot. Unfortunately for them the decision is out of their hands.

[mad_jock]

but almost none existent if you have gone the modular route

Actually its not. They are getting the jobs that were always available to them and that preferred that type of pilot. Not flying heavy tin straight out of the packet but they are still jobs paying decent money. In fact some of them are on better money than the flexi crew type schemes and have a lot less debt if any to service.

And of course the largest taker of that age group of pilots will take both methods of training.

Only difference is one pilot has well over 100k debt to service and the other one significantly less.

[Bearcat F8F]

Actually its not. They are getting the jobs that were always available to them and that preferred that type of pilot. Not flying heavy tin straight out of the packet but they are still jobs paying decent money. In fact some of them are on better money than the flexi crew type schemes and have a lot less debt if any to service.

And of course the largest taker of that age group of pilots will take both methods of training.

Only difference is one pilot has well over 100k debt to service and the other one significantly less.
+1!

Plenty of evidence to suggest that those who persevere and work hard (and with a bit of luck) make it, regardless of the method.

But to suggest to people that it is better doing an integrated course outside of a cadet scheme resulting in £90k debt is better than saving up less than half of that and having a license in your hand (by doing it modular), is just ludicrous IMO!

Even if someone could offer me a loan of £90k, I would never take it unless there was some sort of job guarantee. No thanks, I would rather save up for a bit and sit debt-free with a license in my hands, as opposed to a hold-pool and £90k down.

I am not against integrated. If money was no obstacle - sure, why not integrated. I think it really depends on what works best for a particular person in a particular circumstance.

[TheAeronaut]

Even if someone could offer me a loan of £90k, I would never take it unless there was some sort of job guarantee. No thanks, I would rather save up for a bit and sit debt-free with a license in my hands, as opposed to a hold-pool and £90k down.

I agree F8F, but is there ever such a thing as a job guarantee in todays industry?

Speaking of which, does anyone know what would happen to tagged scheme cadets (either FPP or Easy/Flybe MPL) if the company they trained for is no longer in a position to provide them with a First Officer position? Do they become the equivalent of any other self-sponsored, non-tagged cadet looking for a job?

[mad_jock]

MPL is a bit of an issue because its linked to a company type and also SOP's

After a period of hours on type 1250 I have seen banded about it because unrestricted and transferable.

Before that your a bit stuffed and may have to convert onto the normal system if everything goes tits up. This would mean that you would have to do any additional training that's required to qualify for a normal CPL/ME/IR.

To get the full differences you will have to look at CAP 804. You would have to make up to the required experience levels.

but is there ever such a thing as a job guarantee in todays industry?


BA followed by Monarch in the UK are about your best bets. But bet is the right term because its is a gamble even though the odds are pretty good.
There are other things which can screw you up. Medical being one of them.

[DaveyG1023]

For those that have already started the FPP process during round one - did you get allocated a start date or was it a discussion as to what worked best for you? Also how soon were you contacted once you got the acceptance email?

Thanks!

[Romeo Kilo]

Firstly, a massive well done to all those that made the cut, and hard luck to those that didn't.

Davey, start dates were allocated last year, and there wasn't much leeway for change. I made sure to let BA/APL know that I was available to start immediately, and would have preferred a date as soon as possible. I wasn't the only one to do this, and ultimately when the dates were issued I was given a date in the middle of the range. I suspect the only way for things to be changed would be to have good legitimate reason; and to find someone in a similar position willing to swap. Even then...

I think everything took a little longer than planned during our early admin stages so there was a bit of a delay between receiving the email you've just received, and getting a start date. To then discover it wold be another 6 months before training began was slightly disappointing at the time, but the gap flew by, and many of the administrative creases had been ironed out in time for us to complete the required (and not insignificant) paperwork. I would also say that, whilst there is a lot of admin to sort, you will be given timely guidance regarding its completion. Those that need to know soon will. Those with later dates that may be yet to be decided will find out in due course, but in plenty of time. The one thing you can do is get an Initial EASA class 1 medical which must be done at Gatwick, and of course, it'll cost you. Those who already have medicals but may require renewals may be better to wait until BA get in touch - they may ( I stress 'may') be able to save you some cash.

All the above is of course my observation only, and any issues/queries you should have may well be better addresses to the BA team directly. I look forward to meeting some of you folks when the time comes, and when I'm not spending my evenings immersed in the intricacies of aerodrome approach lighting specifications, and instrument approach design. That's what you've got to look forward to!

[DaveyG1023]

Thanks for the reply Romeo, very informative!

[Future_Pilot_Pal]

@ Gforce - True that is the case now as absolutely no banks are giving out any unsecured loans. It wasn't always the case and might not be in the future (although I doubt it). But everyone seems to really slate these guys who can have that as an option.

Things like the FPP are good step in the right direction and I would hope other airlines would follow suit. But lets been honest I highly doubt they will, having said that flybe paid a contribution towards their MPL Scheme (despite current circumstances) :sad: I feel for them.

@Mad jock - Okay I might have jumped the gun in making that statement, but I know a few guys seriously struggling to get any work having gone through the modular route. To be honest I would rather it was like the US over here and there was no quick fix into the RHS, because most pilots would have a serious large amount of hours under their belts having gone modular (please forgive my ignorance if I am wrong about the states).

The reality is if you want a better shot (not the only shot) at getting a job in this industry in this day and age then you will most likely have to go through the integrated route. Although which school you go through would probably play a significant role too.

Things look like they are going to get worse before they get better. Jobs in this part of the world are going to become even more scarce considering the likes of Ryan air have now closed off any recruitment in the near future.

Sorry to discuss something unrelated to the FPP in here.:}

[ManUtd1999]

Remember, BA are putting us through this to train us, they know they aren't taking on experienced pilots so don't splurge on a PPL just to make yourself a 'better' candidate, get some life experiences instead.

Don't worry, I won't have the money to splurge on a PPL any time soon! It's reassuring to hear that some people did get through with no flying experience. When I'm in a position to apply I might have a chance after all.

[Bearcat F8F]

Future_Pilot_Pal (http://www.pprune.org/members/409764-future_pilot_pal),

Ryanair are starting a big expansion in 2014/2015... they will need a whole bunch of new pilots in the not too distant future.

It's difficult to imagine the US system working in Europe. In the US they have a huge amount of GA opportunities including bush flying, a million air shows and other cool stuff. At least there's opportunities out there for them to build hours. In Europe all this is very limited. It's either instructing or glider towing. The latter typically being next to impossible as gliding clubs don't really want people towing for the sake of building hours. GA opportunities are far and in between.

I love the way all pilots always tell wnnabes the 'best' way of doing it... and it always seems the way THEY did it.

Let me guess, you did an integrated course before finding work? I have spoken to multiple modular guys with low hours who are happily flying jets. I'm not saying modular is better, I'm saying it works just as well, if not better in some cases. I know a few biz jet pilots who got work after going modular recently (and others in the airlines too).

Anyway, lets no hijack this thread. Congrats to those who made it into this year's FPP. Super jealous :{. And I wish everyone else the best of luck with their persuites. I will see some of you during selection for the next FPP (hopefully!).

Adios!

[mad_jock]

Bearcat has it right.

There are different streams and quite a lot of the time they don't mix.

The modular guys tend to get the jobs that aren't advertised and involve a fair bit of networking. Once you have 500 hours on a multicrew aircraft it doesn't matter how you trained.

The issue is that one stream is wanting a bit of action that was traditionally the other streams way in. In the main all that has meant is more paper in the bucket.

And it is to be seen if its expansion or just fleet replacement.

[guest3]

Anyone from FTE phase 2 on 14th January get through?

[SkyRocket10]

Quote:
It really depends on whether you want to take the risk and matter into your own hands as opposed to sitting around for your entire life hoping that one day a cadet scheme will work out for you. Personally I wouldn't hang around forever. That's just me though... different approaches work for different people (but it's always a gamble )

Thanks for the advice Bearcat. Yeah the above is pretty much the point i'm at decision wise. I will be 30 next year and while that is hardly ancient it does mean I am at the point where I don't want to be hanging around year after year on the off chance I make it through on one of these programmes, particularly when the competition is so intense.

For what it's worth 30yrs of age is definitely not too old. I would certainly recommend taking a few weeks to consider your options and then potentially having one more attempt at the FPP. As I'm sure you know, it really is a great opportunity.

As far as joining BA age wise, I would suggest an upper age of 35. Some may disagree, however with a 15yr+ wait for a shorthaul command, you'll be 50+, and then if your lucky you may achieve a long haul command before your 60th birthday. With the current BA demographics, unless you are a young chap and/or desperate to fly longhaul, it may not neccessarily be the best option available to you.

Either way, best of luck going forward.

[andre1990]

As far as joining BA age wise, I would suggest an upper age of 35. Some may disagree, however with a 15yr+ wait for a shorthaul command, you'll be 50+, and then if your lucky you may achieve a long haul command before your 60th birthday.

Would you elaborate what you mean by the 15 year wait for shorthaul command?

[SkyRocket10]

Would you elaborate what you mean by the 15 year wait for shorthaul command?

Simple- from the day you join it will take 15+ yrs before you become eligible for a short haul command. A recent release suggested this could even be close to 20yrs without any sugnificant expansion.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Anyone from FTE phase 2 on 14th January get through?

Yup. :) Feel free to pm me.

[G-F0RC3]

Congratulations MaydayMaydayMayday.

Can you tell us whether you had any prior flying experience or not, and whether you think that was beneficial to you?

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

If you jump back a couple of pages there's a bit of a discussion about just that. From post #912 onwards (page 46 of this thread, at least in my browser. My response is #913)

I've not got much flying experience, nope. The little I do have was definitely extremely useful, but didn't feel disadvantaged by not having had dozens of hours. I think having at been at the controls of an aircraft at least once is a very enlightening thing. The first time, I certainly worried that if I didn't enjoy it it'd blow all my lofty ideas out of the water. Thankfully, I bloody loved it. I don't think any amount of FSX can prepare you for that initially attack on the senses (yes, all of them). I do have a friend who had been fascinated with flying for years but, after their first lesson, never wanted to get anywhere near the controls again. He's now a dentist. Frankly, I think that's far more terrifying!

Pop back to the earlier part of the discussion, I wasn't the only one with a handful of hours. :)

[G-F0RC3]

Thanks Mayday (can I just say it once for short? :p)

I have an EASA PPL and was thinking of applying for the FPP next time around. I've never applied for anything like it before, so it'll be a new experience for me. Anyway, not to go off topic; all the best for the course and for your future flying career.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Sure thing. ;)

Many thanks. Best wishes if you have a crack at next round of applications.

[Hamsterminator]

Just interested to know and you can PM me if you want this kept quiet, but of those who got through did many spend a significant amount of time using FSX or similar?

I don't know how I did in the individual rounds of the assessment, but one of the aptitude tests in particular was something which I had never encountered before in terms of scale and complexity.

[naturals]

one of the aptitude tests in particular was something which I had never encountered before in terms of scale and complexity

I know exactly what you mean! I'm curious if those who got through found this task easy - nobody I spoke to on the day felt too happy with how they'd performed on this task.

[funkyt111]

@naturals

Last year, I noticed a lot of people that were accepted were from the IT industry and based on one the aptitude tests, I'm not surprised as I believe it will have suited them perfectly.

[Stocious]

Really? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone on last years intake that came from an IT background.

[Sound As A Euro]

Really? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone on last years intake that came from an IT background.Incorrect. But I don't think that your previous job significantly affects your probability of success/failure. There are FPP cadets from almost every career background you can imagine, plus some who haven't had a career yet.

[Stocious]

I've no doubt Euro. Quite what I'm 'incorrect' in saying has gone over my head though.

Those I've met in person have very varied backgrounds, but as I said I can't think of anyone of them that's come from an IT background.

[funkyt111]

Have a look on last years thread. Quite a few people were talking about there backgrounds and I remember there being a good few from the IT industry. Anyway, I'm am in no doubt that BA employ people from all backgrounds. I was just making the point that people from the IT industry might perform slightly better on one of the particular aptitude tests (without going into too much detail) .

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

I thought it was really interesting how varied the candidates were at final selection. The folk I met ranged from: Teacher, engineer, doctor, estate agent, 'city' types, RAF (but still in training), a whole load of students, banker, and archaeologist (that'd be me). I'm sure there must have been a whole load more. What's certain is that everyone seemed passionate about both flying and BA. It was very interesting hearing everyone's individual back-story.

[Atropos1]

As many have said flying experience is not important but showing an interest in aviation is. As for age and time to command that many seem to be discussing here, this varies so much at BA that its very difficult to predict. When I joined at 34, having trained at 27, there were long haul guys who had been in the RHS for 20 years just getting their commands, admittedly in long haul. Because of an unusual situation at LGW, which incidentally may be repeating itself at the moment, a group of us got commands after a couple of years in the airline as not many were interested in moving to LGW.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that its very difficult to forecast anything in this industry and especially at BA. The new widebody aircraft may initiate an expansion, world economic situation allowing. The return to regular retirements post the raising of the pension age may also do the same.

Good luck to all.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Anyone trying to predict how things will look in 5, 10, 20 years really must have a crystal ball. It's interesting to hear that things aren't always as set in stone as the forums may have you believe.

I think a lot of the arguments over time to command are only likely to matter if it's really, really important to you to have that LHS asap, 4 stripes and a fancier hat (ok, that's perhaps being a little trite, of course the extra responsibility and status is appealing). Ultimately, if you're lucky enough to get taken onto the FPP, especially if you're coming from another career, it's still a life-changing move. You still get to fly outstanding aircraft for the remainder of your career, to a huge range of destinations, meeting and working with interesting and (hopefully mostly) motivated individuals, with a very comfortable salary and lifestyle with pretty much unparalleled benefits compared to 99% of the jobs out there, whether aviation related or otherwise.

The argument about joining late and not making it to the top of the 34 point pay scale just doesn't strike me as a particularly big issue. I won't make it to ppt34 unless they raise retirement age to at least 69! I also couldn't care less. I'm coming from a career where it tops out a mile below what BA can offer, and my bosses and professors all live very comfortable lifestyles as it is.

If time to command and reaching the top of the company payscale are at the top of the list of priorities, there are other avenues out there. Everyone has their own vision of where they'd like to be. Good luck to them!

[Ad_Pad]

@naturals

Last year, I noticed a lot of people that were accepted were from the IT industry and based on one the aptitude tests, I'm not surprised as I believe it will have suited them perfectly.

I am confident the aptitude tests were not the deciding factor at selection- They will look at the bigger picture. I found them very challenging, and as a result mentally prepared myself for a NO. Neverthless I got through.

By the way, has anyone else who got through heard from their chosen FTO or APL yet?

[funkyt111]

@Maydaymayday

Spoke like a boss! :ok::ok::ok:

[Stocious]

Last years lot didn't hear from APL for about a month. Don't wait for the postie!

[my_call]

Perhaps not the answers Mayday would have given in the interviews :), but I very much agree with the points also. It's good to realise how fortunate one is and let's hope it remains so. That glass is near enough to full as far as some of us can see it with the rest at this point perhaps just being semantics.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Just to clarify; I wasn't suggesting that anyone should have a lack of ambition in any way. It's not a bad thing to want to aspire to be a captain, or to move up the pay scale (in fact they're both extremely good motivators), just that some of the arguments I've heard against joining BA (whether through FPP or DEP), and particularly if you're not 21, have focussed on things like the potential of not making your 4th stripe by the time you're 35. I think it's an amazing opportunity whether you're 20 or 40. You may ultimately get different things out of it at different stages in your life, but it's likely to be just as valuable and fulfilling however you manage your career.

Don't get me wrong, who wouldn't want to be a captain at 35 and have a decade on the top pay point before retirement, but that model won't work for everyone for a whole host of reasons. It won't make their career or contribution any less valuable.

[flying_god]

Once you hit 30 and do what normal 30 somethings do (get married, buy a house, raise kids, drive estate cars) then a junior first officer at BA becomes difficult.

The factors I considered were Working Weekends, Holidays, Christmas. Buying a house in a nice area with a bedroom each for two kids near Heathrow/Gatwick is going to be a challenge at Cadet salary with 100k of debt.

Even at PP24/34 a large proportion of the business and first class cabins your flying will be better off than you. The money is good, but I wouldn't bank on being able to open an account at coutts.

Ultimately it is worth it, but those first few years are going to be very challenging...

[G-F0RC3]

I think Mayday is correct; flying for BA, irrespective of whether you make it all the way to the top or not, is a highly rewarding career.

But I don't really think money is the primary driving force behind most aspiring pilots. Certainly I can speak for myself when I say that I want to fly because I have a passion for it. If my career was only about money then I'd make far more of it, far more easily, by going into business. People who are mostly driven by money go into business - not aviation.

[Potty]

Hi. Has anyone been told they are on the reserve list for this intake?

[DaveyG1023]

I wasn't even aware there was a reserve list! If there is, I image you'd only get told if a space became available.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Anyone from FTE day on 11th Jan or BA day on 25th March get through??

I was at Waterside on the 25th, yup. :)

[AnotherWannabe]

Just out of curiosity , what's the average age of the applicants ?
Not just for BA's FPP but for any integrated course (with OAA and CTC).

[naturals]

Just out of curiosity , what's the average age of the applicants ?
Not just for BA's FPP but for any integrated course (with OAA and CTC).

Of those on the two OAA assessment days I would estimate the average age was around 23-25. Most I spoke to were either in uni or recent graduates.

At BA I'd guess it was 27-28ish. This could be a pure coincidence but it seemed to me that some of the younger applicants who may not have had so much experience to call on at the OAA interviews didn't get through to BA.

Obviously this isn't a very scientific analysis being based on a fraction of the total number of applicants. YMMV.

[mt623]

I am currently in my final year at uni and managed to get into the FPP at 22. I do agree that the average age was older at the final Waterside day compared to the two at CTC.

Although perhaps I didn't have the life experiences of some of the older candidates, I worked extremely hard in preparing for every single assessment stage and made sure my passion and motivation came through more than anything. Thankfully the hours slaving away at verbal and numerical reasoning tests paid off! :ok:

[WhosKiddingWho]

Have any of you successful applicants not got the funding in place?

Is BA underwriting anyones funding?

[Hamsterminator]

Quick question.

Is pay as a first officer having graduated on the FPP course and gained a job with BA offset by the amount being paid back for the loan? I remember the presentation over lunch describing the pay scale but obviously had nothing to compare it to for a standard first officer.

In other words, is BA paying you back your training fee on top of what you would otherwise be earning, or as part of what you are earning with them?

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

The payscale for FPP and DEP entrants is different. The advantage with the scheme is that the bond is paid back tax free on top of the FPP level salary, whether you took out the loan or not (they're technically repaying the bond, not the loan). Once you reach the end of the bond period, you join the same payscale as everyone else. Thankfully you don't revert back to year 1, though!

If by any chance someone happens to have the money to just pay the bond upfront, they're clearly in a pretty good position with (effectively) 12k per year tax free, considering it's not salary. Otherwise you're obviously paying back interest on the loan too, but at least it's not after that money has already been taxed once as part of a salary package.

NB. I don't think it equates to the same overall but, that said, graduating from the FPP doesn't give you the same experience as anyone coming in through the DEP route. DEP entrants "must have attained at least 500 hours on a multi-engine transport category aircraft with an MTOM of greater than 10 tonnes to be considered for shorthaul vacancies. They must also be in possession of an ATPL (frozen)." Clearly that's substantially more than a new FO straight out of FPP training.

[my_call]

I've always thought of the whole bond thing as neither here nor there on it's own, provided one's in it with BA for the long haul (no pun intended).

It all depends on one's financial aims and how far up the priorities post-training salary is to the individual. Where it's a biggie, then it requires a holistic comparison with the alternatives at one's disposal (aviation and non-aviation) over a period of a number of years including those after training. This would factor in FPP vs DEP salary, bearing in mind that to be DEP one would have had to fund the training somehow anyway.

It has been made apparent severally that at the onset the FPP salary scale is significantly below that of DEP, but I don't know if the two can really be compared, as it is unlikely one can be a direct entry into BA straight after training. If they were comparable, then it could be argued that BA is not really paying back the bond, but just structuring your wages in a more tax efficient way. Similar can be argued to the days when training was "fully sponsored" that it was just subsidised by a lower wage at the onset of working on the line. The key would be how much BA saves and what your take home pay is. If it's good on both sides, then I think they call that a win-win

For myself I would grab the first opportunity to work for BA either way. Flying is by far not the most financially prudent decision for me as for many others and I don't even need to go into into an in depth analysis to know that my financial standing over the remainder of my working life is at a great detriment going into flying than if I were to remain within my current realm. The bottomline is we're not going into it for the bottomline. Something I tried to subtly put across in my interview, but may have been misconstrued.

I paraphrased some of the some points as Mayday, which I hadn't seen on my initial reply

[Chris_ACV]

Hello,

Hats off to everyone who made it! The competition was tough...

Just wondering: has anyone without an English-speaking education ever got through the BA FPP selections? Ever heard about such successful candidates?

Is there a way, without going to school/university, to apply for a GCSE (or equivalent) only for taking the "English as a first-language" exam(s)? (goal being getting C or above)

Thanks!

[Hamsterminator]

The question wasn't meant as a mini moan about the FPP programme, only to gauge a comparison with how one would go about paying off an integrated course if they chose to take that route.

In other words, after you pay off a chunk of the loan at the end of the year, how much is there left to live on? (im sure this has been debated to death on these forums!)

Of course the main difference between the FPP programme and an integrated course is that with the former you are more or less guaranteed a job that will easily pay off the debt. Less so with the latter...

[my_call]

Ok, this may not answer your question again, but I thought it may be helpful to some, as topics of a similar nature have been brought up a number of times before . Based on my own understanding, this is how I would calculate pay for a new FPP entrant.

Income:

Gross Salary = FFP Basic Salary + Flying Pay Supplement (FPS)
Allowance = Time Away From Base (TAFB)

Net Income = Gross Salary - Income Tax on Gross Salary + 72% of TAFB + Bond Reimbursement

Non-Tax Deductions:

Loan Instalments = Bond Amount + 2 years interest (assuming deferred payments) amortised over agreed term at agreed interest rate
Actual Duty Spending = Money spent as a necessity of being on duty, over and above normal subsistence when not flying

Take Home Earning = Income - Non-Tax Deductions = Net Income - Loan Instalment - Actual Duty Spending

The main variable on an annual basis would be the increasing net income

Some rough rough monthly numbers:

Net Monthly Income = 23000/12 (net FPS +TAFB, very rough without knowing accurate figures) + 1000 (bond reimbursement) = 2917

based on assumptions:
FPP Basic Salary = 22760
Income Tax on Gross Salary = ~23% using an income tax calculator such as Income Tax Calculator (http://www.incometaxcalculator.org.uk)

Loan Amount at first instalment = 84000 + 3360 x 2 = 90720
Loan Instalments = 1240 x 84 monthly payments, using a loan calculator such as Mortgage Calculator: Simple calculator for repayment & interest only mortgages... (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/mortgages/mortgage-rate-calculator)

based on assumptions:
Instalment Term = 7 years
Interest Rate = 4%
Full bond taken out
Fees and charges not included

Take Home Earning = 2917 - 1240 - Actual Duty Spending = 1677 - Actual Duty Spending

As a point of reference, using the income tax calculator above:

a monthly net of 1677 is equivalent to a starting gross salary (allowance included) of £25,500 - in this scenario one looks at it as a lower wage, but with BA paying back the entire loan and interest with 7 years service, akin to full sponsorship

a monthly net of 2917 is equivalent to a starting gross salary (allowance included) of £48,250 - in this scenario one looks at is as a higher wage, but with one having to pay the full loan by self

Actual Duty Spending effectively reduces the figures in above paragraph.

So my conclusion is that it all depends on which perspective one decides to view the bond from, but either way it's not a bad deal.

[FANS]

Many congratulations to those that got through - and now the real work begins!

There is talk of salary etc., but ultimately this scheme is the best by a country mile so if you want to fly, you're in a fantastic position.

A word of caution for those talking about Coutts bank accounts and not earning as much as those in first/business class. If counting money is your game (and there are unfortunately many people inflicted with this disease), this is not the right career for you anymore.

Celebrate your success now, but do not let down yourself (or BA) as you go fourth!

A gentle word of advice is to avoid social networking/twitter etc., and avoid you/your parents etc. annoucing to the world you're the next A380 captain.
Your achievements will do all the talking necessary.

[Lawyerboy]

Congrats to those who got through. Does anyone know whether BA have any current plans to go through the process again in the near future?

[G-F0RC3]

Congrats to those who got through. Does anyone know whether BA have any current plans to go through the process again in the near future?

I believe the FPP has a further three years of intake, and it seems to open on a yearly basis for applications around November or December.

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

Just a stupid question: are candidates with an PPL and more with 80 hours of flight time but no ATPL exams sat are taken into consideration?

If it is true that the next application windows will be opened in November/December I'd like to apply.

[pug]

RedBull, certainly not a stupid question in my opinion. I was precluded from applying for the first intake (FPP2012) as I had more than the maximum 60 logged flying hours, amongst a couple of other academic niggles. However, I was able to apply this year as their only concern seemed to be whether people with flying experience had sat their ATPL exams or not, and other things were changed slightly.

I'm hoping they dont revert back for FPP 2014, as I will be amongst the hoards applying again this year assuming I dont find anything prior. Though with around 8000 applicants for the last one, it's their ball and they can take it home if they want to. :ok:

[G-F0RC3]

4. Do I need to have any flying experience to apply for the Future Pilot Programme?

No. While some flying experience would be valuable, you do not need to have had any experience before you apply to the Future Pilot Programme. However, you must not hold a Commercial Pilot’s Licence or higher, or have commenced an integrated course of flight training, if you wish to apply for the programme.

5. Can I complete a shorter course if I already have a PPL?

No. All cadet pilots on the Future Pilot Programme will complete the full course of training as offered by the selected FTO, and no reductions in flying syllabi etc are available.

Stating that "flying experience would be valuable", whilst simultaneously suggesting that too much flying experience will hinder, would be illogical. I think they realised this when they removed such an arbitrary hour limit for PPL holders who wished to apply; that preventing the most experienced PPL candidates is clearly a poor decision. No legal stumbling blocks - as exist with those who have undertaken CPL examinations - exist for applicants who hold a PPL. :ok:

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

Am I wrong or does the site say that application will be opened again on 1st July?

[G-F0RC3]

Am I wrong or does the site say that application will be opened again on 1st July?

You got a link? :)

[JetPil0t]

Don't know where this talk of there previously being a flight hours experience limit came from... was maybe there for the cadet scheme run 10ish years ago, but certainly not for the first FPP intake. Trust me, there are plenty of cadets currently in training with previous experience. The requirements are as per the content from the website, pasted in the post above.

[pug]

Jepil0t, perhaps I'm getting my wires crossed then (hopefully!), and the upper hours limit may have been for another cadet scheme (Easyjet in the past??), therefore I appologise if I may have misled anyone. However, some of the academic requirements were changed slightly for the 2013 intake which thankfully allowed me to apply, and will hopefully keep it open again for 2014..

[TheAeronaut]

Though with around 8000 applicants for the last one.

The total number of applications for the 2013 FPP selection process was nearer 4300, according to Lindsay Craig at PFTE in London last weekend.

[pug]

The total number of applications for the 2013 FPP selection process was nearer 4300, according to Lindsay Craig at PFTE in London last weekend.

I stand corrected, again.. :ok:

[DaveyG1023]

If there is anyone on the FPP with CTC and wants to swap start dates I'm looking for a late one in 2014, PM me. Thanks!

[Orangaphobia]

Same question for anyone wanting to give me an earlier one at OAA!

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Has anybody else been given a start date for FTE of November the 15th of this year (2013)? :)

I have! I'm aware of another candidate starting on that date too. :)

[Jamesandpie]

I also have an FTE start date, for the end of April 2014. Is there anyone who has one earlier than this who is willing to potentially swap dates? Either of you November chaps interested in postponing it for a few months? :)

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Afraid not. If I don't escape the Scottish weather by then I fear I'll lose the plot!

Good luck on finding a swap, though. :)

Does anyone know for certain whether it's all FPP students on each course, or whether they mix in self-sponsored students or those tagged by other airlines?

[17PA]

OAA and CTC mix, not sure about FTE.

[Mac72]

MMM
Normally they mix students, approx 12-18 students per course

[captain.weird]

Is there anyone who is hired and is not from the UK? Like France, Germany or the Netherlands or so..

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

17PA and Mac72, thanks! :)

Just on the numbers, FTE advertise as a maximum of 14 students per course.

[Ad_Pad]

For those who are looking at swapping, I am afraid that it is not possible unless due to very exceptional circumstances (i.e postpone a course in order to finish a degree). I know of a couple of fellow candidates who have just asked and swiftly got a no.

Courses will be made up of both FPP and self-sponsored cadets. Most courses will have between 4 - 6 FPP cadets.

Anyway looking forward to meeting some of you down at CTC over the next year :)

[G-F0RC3]

Out of interest: if you made it through the selection process, which funding option are you going for? Any of you not going for the BA guaranteed loan?

[Ad_Pad]

I'm not sure yet. I know the BA guaranteed loan has a higher interest rate to the asset-based one. I'm going to have to have a good think about it for the next few months. We've been told not to contact BBVA anyway, until we receive our APL sponsorship agreement a few months prior to our course start date

[Stocious]

Personally I think the extra 1.4% is probably worth not having your house tied to BBVA as security!

[user-name]

Just thought I'd have a little read up on the latest for this years intake. Congrats to those who were successful. I noticed a post a on a previous page about flying hours. I wasn't aware of maximum allowed flying hours, certainly not of 60. I started the course with 200+ and so have several other people that I'm aware of. Also with regards to changing your course dates. I wouldn't assume that to be possible even if you do find someone willing to switch.

[factanonverba]

Any rumour of an Autumn intake this year?

[coffeewhiteone]

With regards to those looking for course date swaps seniority is everything in BA. It governs your fleet movement in future, time to command and in general your quality of life when it comes to 'bidding' for your work.

With lots of movement in the company followed by stagnation your mate who joined just a year ahead of you could quite easily get his/her command or move on to something bigger 4-5 years before you down the line.

Obviously if its for a degree or something equally as important I wouldn't suggest dropping out with a few months to go but from the time you join to the day you leave your seniority is everything.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

I'd imagine seniority will be based on the date of joining BA after training finishes. If you start training in November you could be a fair bit higher on the ladder than those who start training next June, especially if there are also DEP's in the intervening period. Sound about right?

[average-punter]

For allocating course start dates, after taking the taking into considering of preferred course dates it was totally random, i.e. pulling names out of a hat. This is straight from the horse's mouth at APL.

[no sponsor]

Looking at the news section of the BA Intranet, an item from yesterday states that the FPP will be open again later this year.

[coffeewhiteone]

Seniority is allocated by your official date of joining BA. If you're amongst the first FPP cadets and you join a day before someone with 10,000 hours coming in from elsewhere you'll be more senior for the rest of your time in BA.......... barring any disciplinaries etc :ugh:

[Jask99]

Hi all, I was wondering how successful applicants below 25 were, and whether many were successful without degrees. Any guidance would be a huge help, thanks.

[Stocious]

There were plenty successful applicants under 25, some even 18 or 19 fresh out of school. There were also plenty without degrees.

Have a read back through this thread and the one from last years intake. There's mounds of info on there.

[Bold Eagle]

Hello everybody, I am 19 years old and finished my A-level studies in may of last year and decided to take a year out. I am now ready to chase after my dream of being a Pilot. I have been to one selection day in early May 2013 and was wondering if anyone could give me some help concerning BA's FPP, preparation for the selection days & what I must know or read up on to stand out in BA's eyes.

Many Thanks :)

[naturals]

what I must know or read up on

This thread for starters.

[Bold Eagle]

Well if anyone could just point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated

:)

[Cesc_]

Just a general question but when applying what sort of factors/reasons do others consider when deciding on which FTO.

[Bearcat F8F]

For me it was (in no particular order):

cost
location
ease of accommodation
quality of training

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Same criteria as Bearcat, in most respects. Got a very nice vibe from the FTO during initial correspondence too.

On a different note, I already had a fascination with the area, history, landscape, having previously researched and worked in the country. Probably going to bore people silly with the 11th century Almoravid conquest of Iberia. :ok:

[Martijn123]

For me the location of the FTO was important. I had applied from abroad (the Netherlands). Because Netherlands - London is only about 50-60 flying time and can be very cheap (the airfare to the selection days with Ryanair was 24 Euros for a round trip). FTE Jerez was considerably more expensive to get to if selected. So I had to choose between OAA or CTC. Further I looked at quality of training, but I think CTC and OAA are quite similar. I chose OAA for my selection days in January this year.

Got called forward for the selection days, I was very surprised. I was the only one on my selection day from abroad, where there many more people from abroad? Also I was one of youngest with 18 years. Unfortunately I didn't get through to day 2, I think if it opens next year I will choose CTC.

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Martin, you know FTE hold their assessment days for the FPP in London, right?

[Cesc_]

Surely the quality of training is almost irrelevant considering these have been screened and chosen by BA.
Been looking back through this thread and it looks as if the whole process from application takes almost a year, is anyone able to confirm this?

[Cesc_]

Actual course join dates can be anywhere from say June to November though, can they not?

[yanny]

It's more like end of September to April. It can be quite a long wait.

[Martijn123]

@MaydayMaydayMayday I have to be honest, I didn't really investigate applying at FTE. Just Googled FTE Jerez and saw it was in Spain, so I assumed (not very smart) that also the selection days were in Spain (because CTC and OAA were doing it at their schools). As well that I sent my application in the very last day, so I didn't have too much time researching everything.

Do you guys think that doing an ESOL or IELTS exam will help applying for BA FPP next year? Or other cadetships? I finished Dutch pre-university school (starting civil engineering at a technical university in September) so according to Dutch government that pre-university school level should be around CEFR level B2/C1. I should get a check from the UK NARIC but I heard that most of the time they will write that your English level is not comparable to UK standards. I know English is my second language, but native English speakers say my English is actually quite good. I would really appreciate it to know what you guys think?

[Cesc_]

Does anyone know if the 'BBC' entry requirement can be calculated through UCAS points, for example I'm also certain I messed up on a couple of exams this year and will probably only come with A*,B and D/E.

Did email BA recruitment but the department that it was passed onto has yet to reply.

[er82]

For the previous two years you have to have the grades specifically or higher. UCAS points not counted.

[funkyt111]

For the previous two years you have to have the grades specifically or higher. UCAS points not counted.

I would not say this is entirely true. I applied last year with a BTEC National Diploma and an A level in mathematics. When I was invited to the final stage the email stated to bring proof of academic grades or UCAS equivalent.

[G-F0RC3]

I'm going to apply for this later in the year. I'm heavily leaning towards FTE. My first consideration was the quality of training, as I'd rather put quality before cost. But as BA seem to see them as equivalent in this regard I looked to the other factors. Cost of FTE looks highly competitive. On top of that, I like how their training is all done in a single location, with flying starting early on. When I finished my PPL last year I was glad to have done the flying along with the theory, as I believe both help each other out. Plus, learning to fly in European airspace has got to be beneficial from an ATC perspective if you're going to be based in London after training. I mean I know that airline pilots have to be proficient irrespective of which part of the world they are in, but it makes sense to start out with the ATC that'll initially be what you experience after training.

That's my reasoning, I hope someone finds it helpful. :) Any feedback regarding the above would be appreciated. :ok:

[momo95]

I really do hope they accept UCAS equivalent of 'BBC' (which I think is 290 points), because i'm doing the Irish Leaving Cert I do 7 subjects and it is a nightmare trying to find exact equivalents with NARIC never responding to me, and I heard that they are very harsh and never give you the benefit of the doubt. I'm doing my exams now and the BA FPP in mind really cranks up the pressure !!!

[G-F0RC3]

Well they seem to be looking for BBBB at Scottish Higher level, which would be 260 UCAS points. BBC at A-Level appears to be 280 UCAS points (although the English system is - frankly - stupidly complicated imo).

Source: Tariff Tables | UCAS | UCAS Tariff Table & UCAS Tariff Points (http://www.ucas.com/how-it-all-works/explore-your-options/entry-requirements/tariff-tables)

So I guess anything 280 or above with the required subjects would be considered to meet the minimum requirements.

Edit: the Irish Leaving Cert grades with UCAS points are also shown on the above link. I don't know the Irish system, but it seems like you have plenty of scope to get 280 points with 7 subjects at "Higher" level, but at "Ordinary" level it's impossible (so I'm guessing they are the equivalent of GCSE or Scottish Standard Grades). Hope it helps. :)

[momo95]

Yeh I'd say so, thanks for the help ! Let's hope they do reopen it at the end of this year again

[G-F0RC3]

They are going to, it's not really a case of "hope". There was an internal memo stating that it was opening again this year. :)

[Wirbelsturm]

There was an internal memo stating that it was opening again this year

Never, ever, ever, never, never, never trust an 'internal memo' rumour.

Only believe it is opening again when you see the website open and requests for applications invited.

There is lots going on at the moment with three new aircraft types for the training department to consume and consolidate (B787, A380 & A350). Two new airbus types for the Airbus trainers to get to grips with and manpower is short to non-existent. Increase in flying schedule for W13/S14 and replacement of 737's at LGW with Airbus.

I'm sure something will be announced officially at some point, wait until then.

[G-F0RC3]

:p Bet you a tenner they do open it again.

:ok:

[Gingerbread Man]

Do yourself a favour - bet him £84k :}

[747craze]

I have 3 A-Levels tied up in a BTEC, does this mean that i have to contact NARIC for a letter of comparability of do they accept these straight up?

Thanks guys :ok:

[Wirbelsturm]

Bet you a tenner they do open it again.


I'm sure they will, the company desperately needs more lemmings ;), just don't give timescales, trust me, they're not worth the paper they're written on in BA.

[squarehole]

Does anyone have any experience with the process of the guaranteed loan, I have read that basically if you can't get an asset based one BA will guarantee a non asset based loan. Any PM's on those who have gone down this route or know more would be greatly appreciated as the money (as someone without a house to put on the line) is the biggest issue for me.

[Stocious]

You are correct squarehole, though you are given the choice. Most people appear to have gone for the BA backed loan, though it's got a slightly higher interest rate.

[Paxi_R6]

Just meet the minimum requirement, that's all you need.
I worry more about the assessments! Anybody know what OAA score on COMPASS(out of ?/42) was to get to phase 2.

All 3 FTOs are all great in there own right can't go wrong with training with either one of them. My only downfall is maths at the moment, I'm good at maths just hopeless without a calculator :ugh:

[G-F0RC3]

I'm sure a lot of people can relate to being poor at arithmetic without a calculator. ;) It just takes practise really. If you go into an assessment day with your chosen FTO having not done any work on your mental maths in weeks/months prior then you're not giving yourself the best chance imo. :=

[NorthernCounties]

Does anyone know/Can anyone guess roughly when they'll open the scheme for applications?

Cheers

[4015]

No one knows for sure - Even those claiming to have inside information should be taken with a pinch of salt, as they could be out and out lying or have information skewed by being passed through several people before getting to them. Add to that the fact that the plans are as fluid as the world outside BA, and change on average about 18 times per week.

Looking at the previous 2 events, they seem to be opened once per year around the end of the year, but it's not a large sample size so there's no real trend to speak of.

In short, trying to predict when it will open is a mug's game, not even BA know yet. The best plan would be to ensure that you keep up to date with what's going on, work on your weak points constantly, and use the time now to build up an idea of what the selection process is like. That way you'll be in the best position to apply when it does open.

[NorthernCounties]

Thanks 4015 for the indepth reply!

I'll keep an eye out - just anxious that for whatever reason, I'll miss the application window.

I'll be sure to thoroughly research the application process.

[Libertine Winno]

Don't worry about missing it, the window is usually open for 6 weeks or so (from memory!) and this forum will go absolutely nuts when it does open...so you will have to be on Mars to miss it!

[ciom009]

what is the criteria for applying ?

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

what is the criteria for applying ?

It's almost as if there should be a suitably titled and easily searchable website about it, containing all the information. That'd be sensible, right? :ok:

[bex88]

Like this one? British Airways Future Pilot Programme (http://www.bafuturepilot.com/)

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Almost exactly like that one. :}

[planedrive]

By this time the first of the 2012 intake should be reaching the end of their training. Is there any word on whether they will go straight into type rating or have a 'hold pool' style wait?

[propilot9]

So... I'm going to guess British Airways will be opening the application window some time in November like last year? ;)

[Luke_Stern]

Hello to All,

I've read this and last year's BA FPP threads, older BA Direct-Entry threads, have used the Search function; still no answer is solid throughout … About me: I'm 35 years old. I can meet all the requirements to apply for BA FPP. But there is one issue on my CV I'm worried about. In addition to having approx. 5 years of work experiences and for the past 2 years successfully running my own business, my Resume looks a bit undistinguished due to several years of unemployment. In total I have approx. 6 years long time gap of no provable job & work experiences on my CV. I was never on jobseeker's allowance but preferred to live off my on own savings.

My Question: Would the long-term unemployment gap on my CV ruin my chances for getting selected at BA FPP? To refrain my question, would the HR Personnel at British Airways find the 6-years gap of employment too much of a concern, and I'd be bypassed over someone else who's demonstrated a more stable career path?

If anyone who's already made it through the BA FPP or Ready-Entry Recruitment can shed some light on my question please do. I would appreciate an honest and truthful answer. Thanks.