British Airways Future Pilot Programme. [Archive] - Page 14

JDA2012

12th Jun 2015, 10:35

I sorted my medical last week - as it was due to expire in August anyway (initial was in 2012) and it's one less thing to worry about. We will need to arrange financing when the time comes of course...

I was also asked by BA about how soon I could start, and then asked the same by CTC via email - in both cases I advised of my current three-month notice period, and this has been respected.

I am aware of only two start dates for OAA at present, 7th September and 9th November, but would welcome hearing from anyone who knows of further dates.

Thanks to Geoff565 and 4015 for the corrections on my earlier post - I've edited this to reflect the updated info.

Cpt_Hook

13th Jun 2015, 08:32

JDA I start with OAA on 08/02/16. I'm the only one I've heard if on that date so far.

Big bad ben

21st Jun 2015, 20:19

R J

23rd Jun 2015, 19:46

The Facebook group also seems to be eluding me, any help in finding it would be appreciated.

Cpt_Hook

26th Jun 2015, 18:17

Hi Cpt_Hook, hi all - I went down to Gatwick on Friday and got my medical, so at last it feels like this is really happening :eek:

Could someone send me a link to the Facebook group? I can't seem to find it... Cheers!

Hi Ben, congratulations on getting your place. Great to hear from someone else who will be on my course. You're the first FPP besides me on that course date that I know of. The Facebook group is set to secret so if you email me directly your email address I will add you and I will message one of the admins and ask them to add you in.
How did you find the medical and roughly how long does it take?
Speak to you soon.
Richard

Big bad ben

26th Jun 2015, 23:46

Hi Richard - the medical was pretty nerve-wracking: there seemed to be a lot riding on it, which is why I wanted to get it out of the way as early as possible. I was diagnosed with asthma as a child, and even though I haven't taken any medication for years, there was still a doubt at the back of my mind as to whether I'd be pronounced fit! There's a great write up of the medical experience here - http://www.pprune.org/medical-health/488260-class-1-medical-passed-bonus-eye-lung-tests-trip-report.html

I went to Gatwick for the medical and I was whizzed round the tests - height, weight, urine sample, blood test, ECG, hearing test, (the dreaded) spirograph, peripheral vision test - every test was done in a different room and the nurse was brilliantly enthusiastic about EVERYTHING - it was a bit like being on the crystal maze as we rushed from room to room! All that was done in about half an hour, and I thought I'd be out in no time - no such luck...

I had about a 10 minute wait for the opthamologist before having the most thorough eye test of my life - not just reading through the colour blindness test book and reading the rows of letters from about 50ft, but reading tiny text from a book at arm's length with one eye covered, balancing long poles on my nose and trying to read things stuck on the end of the pole, and testing how quickly my eyes crossed as things got pushed closer towards my face. I think the eye test took about 40 minutes - but the ophthalmologist and I did spend about half of that talking about the Le Mans 24hr race...

After that, a 20 minute wait before seeing the doctor, who looked in my eyes and ears, listened to my heart and lungs with a stethoscope, tested my reflexes and did the 'cough' test :ooh:. He seemed happy and printed out my medical certificate - and just before signing it I heard the horrible words "Oh no, just a minute, this needs looking at...:uhoh:....no, no we can't have this....:ugh:....

...your surname's come out all in capital letters!"

Syntax fixed, certificate signed and I was on cloud nine! The whole thing took about three and a half hours from start to finish, though at times it felt much longer. £344 well spent... Best of luck with your medical!

Thanks for offering to get me on the Facebook group - I'll drop you a note if I can work out the pprune messaging function...

JDA2012

27th Jun 2015, 20:15

Hi BBB - great to see another OAA cadet, we are still relatively few in number on the FB group! I see (not that it matters a great deal!) that we are the same age as well.

I'm on the 9th November course, so (all being well) I'll be there to greet you at OAA when you start in February.

Glad that your medical went well and that someone read my little novella on the experience - and agreed, the eye tests just go on and on! Fortunately the renewal process is much less involved.

Not sure if you have had the paperwork through yet, but I'd recommend getting in touch with BAHS about the cadet medical now that you have your Class 1 - not sure what to expect here as I haven't been down to see them yet myself...

LCOS

28th Jun 2015, 05:11

Hi Everyone!

I'm starting on 9/11/2015 with FTE, looking forward to flying with you all!

Who should I email to join the facebook group?

Big bad ben

28th Jun 2015, 08:08

Hi JDA, looking forward to meeting you at OAA...us oldies have got to stick together ;) Your write up of the CAA medical was great, certainly helped me prepare (mentally) for the assessment.

I haven't had any paperwork yet at all - just a couple of emails form CTC. Is BAHS British Airways Health and Safety? I didn't know there was such a thing as a cadet medical... :confused: If you've got any more information I'd appreciate it!

I can't work out the PPRuNe messaging function - maybe I'm not allowed to use it because I'm a newbie? A link to the FB group from anyone reading this would be fab, thanks!

G-F0RC3

28th Jun 2015, 17:08

BAHS = British Airways Health Services

You'll need to go to Waterside for a cadet pilot medical some time after obtaining your Class 1. You can phone them to arrange. It's nothing to worry about though; if you can pass a Class 1 then you'll have no problem getting a BA medical.

I think private messages should be sent to claudiaupear for those of you who want to join the FB group that she has set up.

Hope it's helpful. :ok:

Boulderman1988

1st Jul 2015, 15:07

Does anyone know when the future flyers program is likely to re-open this year? I gather it is normally towards the end of the year. Apologies if this has been asked already.

Cheers

speedbird_cadet

1st Jul 2015, 22:34

Any answer you see on this forum will only be speculation… In previous years it has always been towards the backend of the year. I don't believe that BA have announced officially that they will run it again yet (Though I stand to be corrected) That said its no secret BA have a big recruitment drive on at the moment which can only be a good thing for the industry.

Keep checking the website, and aviation press. Oh and without wishing to be sarcastic its the "Future Pilot Programme"… future Flyers was Virgin Atlantics cadet programme - if you're looking to apply you should probably get the name right :ok:

SBC

EZY_FR

1st Jul 2015, 22:53

I received info from a good source that the scheme will, more than likely, reopen at the same time next year.

maithya

8th Jul 2015, 14:40

Hello guys, i just applied for ab initio pilot program application for kQ.I was wondering how long it will take before they can contact us.Also is it true you have to have a degree nowdays for u to go through because i have finished but am yet to graduate.Guys who have been through the program please help.

Ryan93

9th Jul 2015, 10:49

Hi @maithya

This is the thread for the British Airways FPP scheme, therefore I doubt many people will be able to help you, as every airline will run their schemes differently, with different phases and unique time frames between them. Not sure if this is much help, however with BA it can take up to just over a month to hear back after submitting the initial application. - Like I say though, every airline will vary, best of luck anyway.

P.s it wasn't essential to hold a degree for BA applications

EZY_FR

9th Jul 2015, 14:15

Degrees aren't really essential for an-initio programs, so you don't have to worry about that.

LHRport

1st Aug 2015, 18:27

just joined, made it through to ctc! can't seem to find the fb group, could someone link me it?

dexter7d

5th Aug 2015, 13:51

Hi
I am also looking for some info whether or not BA will run the programme again. Are you sure about that? I was about to apply and got the message that the scheme is now closed...

JDA2012

6th Aug 2015, 09:32

Hi dexter7d,

An important distinction: the scheme is closed to new applicants at the moment.

The FPP has typically opened once a year for written applications, and (subject to passing this first round of selection) the entire process involves several selection days and takes several months to complete.

This year (2014-15), the opening of the programme to applications was delayed from its usual end of year "slot" due to intensive Direct Entry Pilot recruitment taking place within BA, and it instead opened on February 23rd.

As already noted, we can only speculate on if and when the FPP will open again. Based purely on BA's initial figures for desired pilot recruitment numbers, another year of the FPP could be justified, as the current total intake across four years of the FPP has been around 100 less than the plan (<300 vs 400). I would not expect any potential window to open until late Q4 of this year, perhaps early Q1 of the next - but do not take this as gospel!

Times and company policies may change of course, so I can only advise to keep an eye on the website, and on industry publications which may carry news of a further FPP application window (BA run print adverts at appropriate times). These are likely also to be excellent sources of information which may be relevant during the selection process - as indeed is this thread (read all of it - it will answer many questions).

Good luck!

EZY_FR

6th Aug 2015, 10:26

What JDA2012 said is correct. From what I've heard, the FPP will reopen barring any major global events, and it will probably open within the timeframe JDA specified. Just keep an eye on their website and you can't go wrong! :)

DutchC

21st Aug 2015, 21:41

EZY_FR, as you're reasonably well informed, do you have any idea/inkling as to whether they may continue with a possible FPP, in one form or another, beyond '16? With expansion, success of the programme, retirements, economy picking up et al or will BA decide not to continue beyond next year feeling that they've squeezed all they can out of it?

(I have asked this before and received great help)

ManUtd1999

22nd Aug 2015, 22:53

do you have any idea/inkling as to whether they may continue with a possible FPP, in one form or another, beyond '16?
It's an interesting question. Just to be clear, I have no inside info so I'm just speculating, but I'd be surprised if BA don't have a cadet scheme going into the future. They have a long history of recruiting cadets in some form or another (fully-funded way back in the 80s/90s, self-sponsored in the early 2000s etc). In addition, they are recruiting large numbers of pilots at present, with no indication that the demand will reduce any time soon.

I believe the FPP scheme as we know it was developed and costed to run 5 times, presumably with some sort of contract with the 3 FTO's (it's telling that the price has remained identical for all 4 runs so far). To re-run it a new contract would probably be developed, perhaps with different terms. If I was a betting man I'd say that FPP 2.0 will launch in late 2017/2018 but perhaps on a smaller scale and with a higher bond.

As I say though, this is just me guessing, I'd be intrigued (and surprised!) if anyone could offer something more concrete

JWS1996

26th Aug 2015, 02:23

I have seen posts relating how many hours successful candidates have had but is there any limit on ratings held? Also does having started ATPL exams prohibit an application?

Stocious

26th Aug 2015, 18:32

JWS - from the FPP website:

If you have completed, or are planning to complete, any JAR-FCL Airline Transport Pilot ground school examinations (or EASA equivalents) then you should note that in order to be accepted onto the Future Pilot Programme you must not have already sat any of these exams at the point of commencing training under this programme.

and

you must not hold a Commercial Pilot’s Licence or higher, or have commenced an integrated course of flight training, if you wish to apply for the programme.

No mention of ratings, so long as it's not a CPL.

JWS1996

26th Aug 2015, 23:25

Ah okay, had a browse through the BA site and hadn't spotted that, thanks!

BAW1935

14th Sep 2015, 14:43

Is it true that by being a younger applicant, you're more likely to be accepted through CTC rather than CAE OAA?

4015

15th Sep 2015, 18:52

"Is it true that by being a younger applicant, you're more likely to be accepted through CTC rather than CAE OAA?"

Nope.

Garfly

16th Sep 2015, 17:18

Apparently aptitude tests do not prove jack all according to my psychologist sister. They are merely a weeding tool used because there is nothing else that can reduce huge number of applicants.

Just because one can see figures and their relationship to each other simply proves that one has this ability. People without simply use another part of the brain to make alternate strategies.

She reckons that our innate hard wired "warrior qualities" that both men and woman are born with demonstrate more readily the qualities needed to fly. It just takes more time to access them and assess them because of the culture, education and life experience we all have gotten from society.

Just a thought.

BobsCousin

17th Sep 2015, 07:21

I realise this will sound like really unreliable information, but the other day I saw an article on Pilot Career News which gave an exact opening date for applications for this year's FPP, sometime in late October 2015, with a closing date in November.

Unfortunately the page seems to have disappeared or I just can't find it any more, or I dreamt it. Don't suppose anyone else noticed it?

EZY_FR

17th Sep 2015, 07:42

LandingConfig

17th Sep 2015, 11:33

EZY_FR

17th Sep 2015, 23:56

According to both FTE and BA, no FPP until the first half of 2016.

Jwscud

18th Sep 2015, 08:51

I believe their recruitment is flat out trying to work through DEPs in the system at the moment, with another round planned so I suspect EZY_FR's gen is correct.

LandingConfig

18th Sep 2015, 11:16

According to both FTE and BA, no FPP until the first half of 2016.

First half? Could be June? We may have a long time to wait.

On the plus side, more prep time!

ManUtd1999

18th Sep 2015, 11:29

A bit of a wait is no bad thing. Answering the inevitable "why are you a better candidate than last time?" questions will be much easier if we've had a year to develop

EZY_FR

18th Sep 2015, 13:18

I actually hope it isn't as late as June, I'm travelling next July and I wouldn't want to miss the biggest opportunity to get into the flight deck!

EZY_FR

7th Nov 2015, 19:09

After attending the flyer exhibition today, I can confirm that the scheme will likely relaunch sometime towards August/September in line with the A-level results. They don't know how many that want to take on via the FPP, but Lindsay Craig seems to think it'll be similar to this year. Another member of the team thinks they may take on as many as 120 next time!

DutchC

8th Nov 2015, 00:22

Thanks a lot!

Also, any chance on whether that was the end of BA's cadet/FPP?

EZY_FR

8th Nov 2015, 08:42

I don't think they know, but they did hint that would like to keep the scheme going.

HEJT2015

8th Nov 2015, 16:46

With regards to the FPP coinciding with the A-level results, does anyone know what type of/how much life experience BA would expect from a current student? - Since this is my last year of sixth form.
Thanks very much.

Ryan93

8th Nov 2015, 23:08

HEJT2015 - In terms of life experience, don't think you're at a disadvantage due to your age, the first time the FPP re-opened, a lad received his place on the course at 18 I think? Correct me if I'm wrong anyone..

What BA look for is your leadership, teamwork and problem solving skills, and they look for candidates who will one day be a captain in their fleet. You may already have good experiences you can refer to in the interview and application process, the key is to be able to present these and relate them to the situation they are putting you in.

Keep faith and confidence in yourself, if you go in with doubts they'll see through you.

(I'm on this year's FPP starting this week)

Best of luck in your application

HEJT2015

9th Nov 2015, 07:44

Hi Ryan93,

Thank you very much, that's very interesting to hear and I'll definitely adapt that approach when preparing for interview questions if I get that far :)
However, do you mind me asking what type of problems BA would expect you to have solved?

Congratulations and good luck!!

MattC123

9th Nov 2015, 13:09

HEJT2015,

I think any evidence of an ability to solve problems will suffice. For example, ask yourself: have you had to overcome a series of obstacles to reach a goal? How did you deal with these issues and find a solution? Did you learn anything from this process that has improved your capability of dealing with problematic situations?

Hope that helps in some way.

EZY_FR

9th Nov 2015, 15:47

Knowing how much life experience you need is something only you can answer. Are you able to lead teams, inspire & motivate, organise yourself, work under pressure, solve problems, etc? Going out and participating in extracurricular activities or any jobs alongside your school work and/or your degree life will only help. As MattC123 rightly said, any experience can be used to demonstrate the skillset, so have a look at what you've done with your life so far and see if any experiences could be used to demonstrate good leadership, teamwork, etc.

Ryan93

9th Nov 2015, 16:02

Just building on the above two comments, pretty much spot on - obviously we can't really give away questions we were asked but focus on the examples listed above and that's definitely a strong starting point.

JDA2012

12th Nov 2015, 18:19

Hey chaps - not specific to the FPP, and a bit last minute, but OAA are having an open day this Saturday and I and at least one more of the current FPP cadets (we just started this week) will be around if you're able to visit and would like to discuss anything.

Book an Open Day - Oxford Pilot Training (http://www.caeoaa.com/oxford/book-an-open-day) - I hope this link is OK; I am not an official OAA rep, just a cadet trying to help encourage future colleagues. :ok:

kirungi1

13th Nov 2015, 10:08

JDA2012; Thanks you for this and hope you are settling in well. How would you be identifiable, personally?

batmax

9th Jan 2016, 17:29

Do you think a German has the same chance to get a place at this program ? 3%of 6500 is not that much...

EZY_FR

10th Jan 2016, 01:27

Provided you have a fairly good proficiency of English, you have the same chance as everyone else. I don't know where everyone is getting that 6500 value from, BA announced that 2998 applied during last year's intake.

funkyt111

10th Jan 2016, 02:08

I believe the numbers have decreased year on year. The figure 6500 maybe an accurate prediction for the previous years.

ManUtd1999

10th Jan 2016, 14:59

These crazy 3000-7500 numbers are always thrown around but the "real" competition is probably a lot less. How many of that X000 complete the application, put some time into answering the questions and meet the basic academic criteria? How many are just applying because they saw an ad on Facebook (other social media is available) and thought the job sounds cool?

And with BA FPP specifically, it's been proven time and again that you're competing against a standard, not other people. Except for perhaps the first stage, if you meet the (undefined) criteria, then you will be put through.

EZY_FR

10th Jan 2016, 15:37

The numbers they publish are for those who submit an application, not those who start applying. In the 2015 intake, 2998 applied, 700 were invited to phase 1, 140 to waterside stage 1 and 85 to stage 2, 72 of which were accepted.

EZY_FR

10th Jan 2016, 16:41

I'm guessing its because they didn't meet the standards BA expected of them? Their interview, based off what my friends have said, is very difficult.

kirungi1

11th Jan 2016, 13:42

ManUtd1999:

And with BA FPP specifically, it's been proven time and again that you're competing against a standard...I doubt whether this programme has ever accepted a candidate from outside of the EU even if they were streets a head of the "standard". :=

speedbird_cadet

11th Jan 2016, 13:57

Kirungi - sorry but I dont agree with you, and I actually think you are making a very serious allegation.

Those of us who have been through the process know that it is 'blind' , that is to say if you meet the initial eligibility criteria, you are assessed against the standard - irrespective of nationality, race, colour, sex, religion or anything else. You are assessed against measurable criteria. Of course BA aren't going to publish their marking/assesment scheme - who would... but all of the assessors are marking against a criteria and the computer based aptitude testing doesn't care what part of the world you come from either.

People seem to love 'stats' on this thread for some reason, and everyone is free to make of them what they will - however, the 'stats' dont have any bearing on 'YOUR' performance on the day - only the applicant can do this and the best chance they will have will be as a result of hard work and good preparation. It is only the PERFORMANCE of the Candidate that is judged.

I cannot say whether or not a candidate from outside the EU has been accepted into the programme so far as that is not information I have, however I would be willing to bet that if a Non EU national fitted the eligibility criteria (I.e had the right to live and work in the UK) and met the standard required they would be accepted.

SBC

FlyVeryHigh-

11th Jan 2016, 13:57

ManUtd1999:

I doubt whether this programme has ever accepted a candidate from outside of the EU even if they were streets a head of the "standard". :=

There's a Canadian guy on the FPP.

darkroomsource

11th Jan 2016, 14:45

I doubt whether this programme has ever accepted a candidate from outside of the EU even if they were streets a head of the "standard".

Um? what does that have to do with a standard? and why should they be required to accept someone from outside the EU?

The standard includes proficiency with the English language, and the right to live and work in the UK.

If you have the right to live and work in the UK, then you're not "outside" the EU, whether or not you're inside or outside when you apply.

The result then, is that someone who doesn't have the right to live and work in the UK doesn't meet the standard - so they can't be "streets ahead" of the standard.

kirungi1

11th Jan 2016, 14:46

speedbird_cadet and FlyVeryHigh-,

Thank you for substantiating this doubt and by no means would I cross that line into making allegations. We all know that the whole selection process is not compurised and believe it or not, by human nature, preferances will always take priority to suit the business model. It's always going to be those "specific requirements" that are never clarified that BA uses to shift applicants.
I appreciate you both for this :ok:

darkroomsource; I think there is more to look at separately in your account. Standards and Right to live and work in the UK, in this very case would apply differently. For instance, an applicant from N. America, Australia et cetera would command some respectable standards but would require an unrestricted right to live and work in the UK to be considered for the programme. For this and more, I wouldn't agree with your account.

speedbird_cadet

11th Jan 2016, 16:21

I never said that the whole selection process was computerised...I said that every part of the process (both the computer scored and the human scored) is judged against a specific criteria that BA have set down because they know from many years of experience it produces the very specific output they are looking for. The interviews are competency based and are assessing the candidates ability to deliver against a certain set of criteria such as Motivation, Teamwork, Leadership the ability to perform well in stressful environments etc. (I dont think I'm giving away any secrets here) - at no point is it relevant if you come from Tottenham or Timbuktu....sorry to spoil the illusion but its just not a factor.

You come across as someone with the opinion that there is a secret agreement within BA that 'Only EU Citizens' must be allowed in... which is ludicrous. You need only take a flight with BA to see how it specifically recruits 'International Crew' because of the value they add to their global business.

It is also important to distinguish between 'Eligible to Apply' and 'Meeting the Standard'. Dont forget the eligibility criteria also factors in things like security clearances for airside passes etc. as well as the minimum education requirement. (Dont forget some of the eligibility factors are also dictated by the CAA for those who are undertaking Approved Integrated fATPL courses)

BA started the FPP, in addition to its DEP selection, because they have a requirement for pilots in order to meet their business expansion plans. Why would they then reject someone who exceeds their criteria just because of where they come from ??? (providing they are eligible to work in the UK and are proficient in English!) They wouldnt... It would be madness to do so.

How have we 'substantiated this doubt' - when we have both argued against you ? Do you not believe us ?
Flyveryhigh has even told you of a Canadian that is on the FPP - so your argument just doesnt hold water...
Have you ever even applied to the FPP ?

EZY_FR

11th Jan 2016, 17:11

There are guys outwith the EU on the FPP, surely that's reason enough to not continue on with this disagreement?

Anyway, back to the BA FPP. I understand that you have to go through BA's medical process on top of the Class 1 medical requirement. For anyone that has been granted a place on the scheme, can you confirm if their process is more difficult to achieve than the CAA's?

kirungi1

11th Jan 2016, 20:56

speedbird_cadet;

Tottenham or Timbuktu....sorry to spoil the illusion but its just not a factor.

You come across as someone with the opinion that there is a secret agreement within BA that 'Only EU Citizens' must be allowed in... which is ludicrous. You need only take a flight with BA to see how it specifically recruits 'International Crew' because of the value they add to their global business.You have a strong point to support your point of view based on this above, and I agree but do not accept that it applies specifically to what I had initially expressed "doubt" in. What you will not state objectively is about the fraction that would have come on board through such programmes like the FPP. BA will recruit a DEP fron anywhere if you meet the standard, which is a different matter. But I am talking about the substantial investment / opportunity as an FPP! We all know how wonderful BA is with it's multinational crew (that's not new) but what I would task you to, is with reference to the FPP just as FlyVeryHigh- has been objective.
Again, let me be clear, I was expressing a "doubt" which has been over turned via that Canadian example. I think that is not an illusion as anybody would be entittled to a query on this forum and quite frankly a bit of rationale and courtesy reflect some quality.

It is also important to distinguish between 'Eligible to Apply' and 'Meeting the Standard'. Dont forget the eligibility criteria also factors in things like security clearances for airside passes etc. as well as the minimum education requirement. (Dont forget some of the eligibility factors are also dictated by the CAA for those who are undertaking Approved Integrated fATPL courses)BA claims that "Anybody of any nationality...." would be eligible to apply knowing so well that "some of the eligibility factors are dictated by the CAA" as you have stated and ofcourse your security clearance et cetera. Now draw your own conclusions from there to see just how hard BA would have to adjust itself to accomodate certain applications even if they would meet the standard.

EZY_FR

11th Jan 2016, 20:59

My friend contacted BA pilot recruitment not too long ago and received this automated message:
""Please visit the website bafuturepilot.com for full details of the programme and the latest information regarding the required qualifications. The scheme is expected to reopen toward the middle of 2016. "
So May/June reopening?

4015

12th Jan 2016, 09:31

The BA company medical comes after you've been selected and is carried out at Waterside by the in-house medical centre. It's certainly no worse than a CAA Class 1 renewal and consists of the usual urine sample, eyesight, height, weight, blood test (a small prick on a finger for a drop of blood), and an interview with the Doc. All very informal and relaxed, it's basically just to give you some information about how your upcoming career will affect your health and how best to deal with it.

Still no word on the reopening dates internally other than middle of the year, as with all things BA the planned timetable is liable to change several times before lunchtime!

speedbird_cadet

12th Jan 2016, 15:30

Kirungi - I've drawn my conclusion thanks and its this... "If you are eligible to apply, and meet the standard, then you're in." Put simply. BA would not look for a reason to reject someone who met their criteria just because they arent from the EU. This has been proven to be the case as ably illustrated by the flyveryhigh. Nationality is not a factor as much as you seem convinced that it is.

Can we leave it there now please ?

LandingConfig

12th Jan 2016, 15:40

Opening at the end of summer 2016 according to Pilot Recruitment.

kirungi1

12th Jan 2016, 19:20

speedbird_cadet; If I had been "convinced" that nationality was a factor, I wouldn't have expressed it as a "doubt" but a certainity neither would I have wasted your precious time and space. I had a doubt which has now been mildly substantiated.
At least, I've gained alot from the varied conflicts of interest in between this inquiry :ok:

FlyVeryHigh-

16th Jan 2016, 14:56

http://business-reporter.co.uk/2016/01/15/british-airways-to-recruit-record-number-of-pilots-and-cabin-crew/

EZY_FR

16th Jan 2016, 22:14

Based on that, I reckon they'll at least take on the same number for the FPP as last time.

Ben.Hickmott

17th Jan 2016, 07:59

EZY_FR how did you get on when you applied ?

EZY_FR

17th Jan 2016, 13:56

I got to Waterside phase 1, or the final 140 out of 3000.

Ben.Hickmott

17th Jan 2016, 18:47

Wow you got pretty far through well done :) , unlucky on not getting all the way, are you re-applying once the FPP is opened again this year?

EZY_FR

18th Jan 2016, 00:32

Indeed I am Ben, and I'm working to go the distance this time!

Ben.Hickmott

18th Jan 2016, 15:10

Best of luck EZY!

tc903

22nd Jan 2016, 12:27

What did the selection phase 1 one at waterside consist of EZY? Also best of luck!

EZY_FR

22nd Jan 2016, 21:43

tc903

28th Jan 2016, 14:07

For sure, that is fair. Will be interesting to see when it opens up.

parkfell

28th Jan 2016, 20:23

With Easyjet openly stating that they want to double the number of women pilots, might BA have set any form of quota as well.

Presumably they will have to meet the minimum standard to join the scheme?:ok:

wiggy

29th Jan 2016, 05:35

might BA have set any form of quota as well.

Nope, they can't and won't do that.

The problem BA/Easyjet/ all others have is getting ladies to apply in the first place. There's still a widely held view outside aviation that flying isn't a job for females.

Then again maybe the ladies have more sense...

parkfell

29th Jan 2016, 08:24

BA need to place adverts in golfing magazines and other sporting mags. Those young women with a golf handicap of say less than ten have demonstrated not only good hand to eye coordination, but the right temperament as well.

Others sports are equally as valid. Cricket? Hockey? to name but two.

Accomplished horse riders are also likely to fit the bill. The source of pilots (male) for the Royal Flying Corps in the first instance.

darkroomsource

29th Jan 2016, 08:30

BA need to place adverts in golfing magazines and other sporting mags.

Presumably because they don't get enough qualified applicants?

Jwscud

29th Jan 2016, 17:38

I can't divulge any information about the selection process, its important to ensure that no-one is given an advantage. So without giving anything away, the first stage consists of a series of aptitude tests designed to assess your natural ability and to work under lots of pressure.

I think that's a bit bad form. If you look at the Terms & Endearment forum, pilots are openly sharing details of pretty much every company's recruitment process in the understanding it's not an "I'm all right jack - I know what to expect but don't want to give you a leg up" kind of show.

BA at their roadshows are very open about their selection process so it would perhaps reflect better to share what you know.

ManUtd1999

29th Jan 2016, 18:08

I disagree, BA make a point of telling candidates not to divulge information about their applications - I imagine it "reflects better" to stick to the rules. Granted, I doubt the recruitment team have time to trawl through PPrune trying to identify posters but why take the risk?

Short of a detailed breakdown of each question in the aptitude test, how much more can be added that isn't already on this thread somewhere anyway?

BaronVonBarnstormer

30th Jan 2016, 10:56

Originally Posted by EZY_FR View Post
I can't divulge any information about the selection process, its important to ensure that no-one is given an advantage. So without giving anything away, the first stage consists of a series of aptitude tests designed to assess your natural ability and to work under lots of pressure.
I think that's a bit bad form. If you look at the Terms & Endearment forum, pilots are openly sharing details of pretty much every company's recruitment process in the understanding it's not an "I'm all right jack - I know what to expect but don't want to give you a leg up" kind of show.

BA at their roadshows are very open about their selection process so it would perhaps reflect better to share what you know.

Aside from actually having the tests and software that they use there is no more information really that you could get from posting on here. The only way to get any discernible advantage is to practice and be prepared. BA aren't looking for the bloke/blokeette who can find out all the answers for the aptitude tests, they are looking for the person who as the right aptitude for the job.

BVB

TheTypicalBrit

30th Jan 2016, 19:13

Hi,

I'm a long-time lurker on this thread, and I'm amazed at everyone who has got through the selection for the FPP.

Like many, I also want to get on to the FPP, but I'm still 16 and I can only apply for the FPP in 2018 :(

All I really wanted to query to the forum masters here was: Will the FPP still be going in 2018 and further?

Thanks

EZY_FR

31st Jan 2016, 17:40

Hi there :)

Hard to say for sure, but BA did state that they want to take on cadets on annually for the foreseeable future. Of course, that can change easily, but that should hopefully give you hope. :)

TheTypicalBrit

31st Jan 2016, 18:07

Hi there :)

Hard to say for sure, but BA did state that they want to take cadets on annually for the foreseeable future. Of course, that can change easily, but that should hopefully give you hope. :)

Thanks a lot mate, that's really boosted my morale!

Have a nice day!

parkfell

31st Jan 2016, 18:40

In common with Easyjet, being female will give you an edge over a male

EZY_FR

31st Jan 2016, 20:05

Given the stats from last year, you couldn't be more wrong. Despite BA's utmost effort to try and encourage more female applicants to apply, in the end they took on NO more than normal because they all went through the same selection process as everyone else and beat their standards.

parkfell

1st Feb 2016, 09:06

The random nature of each years' applicants would see a fluctuating number probably within a defined range. Those concerned with statistics will be able to quantify this?
Yes of course the hoops required to jump through will be the same.
But might "normal" mean a minimum number who will be offered a place for each year's intake?

Is any recruiting totally immune from the higher politics of any organisation?:oh:

funkyt111

1st Feb 2016, 14:55

Is any recruiting totally immune from the higher politics of any organisation?

I'd consider myself somewhat naive to think not..

THR RED ACC

2nd Feb 2016, 07:57

EZY_FR

2nd Feb 2016, 08:43

Source please (and I'm not talking about Heinz)?
FPP cadets

skyblue12

6th Feb 2016, 18:16

BA FPP 2016 is indicating for autumn this year apparently.

tc903

8th Feb 2016, 00:21

did you find that information on a website sky blue?

skyblue12

9th Feb 2016, 17:15

Someone at BA recruitment returned my email and said that.

HEJT2015

10th Feb 2016, 11:02

Ayee that'd be true regarding above ^^

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any info on whether any successful cadets on previous FPP schemes were straight out of school, i.e 18/19 years old?

Stocious

10th Feb 2016, 12:45

Some have been straight out of school. Most are around mid-20s with some higher education and/or some decent work experience.

TheTypicalBrit

10th Feb 2016, 17:04

Ayee that'd be true regarding above ^^

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any info on whether any successful cadets on previous FPP schemes were straight out of school, i.e 18/19 years old?

I am hoping to try and be one of them who applies straight after school but I doubt many would have got through.

TFFF

11th Feb 2016, 05:19

Hi folks,

Just a quick post to first off thank you for the gold mine of info that is this thread. I read through all the pages and I have to say I feel (well, at least a little bit) that I know what it takes to make it through.
Planning to apply this year.

'Bout me? I am 28, french national, living and working in Singapore. Which brings me to my next question..
In terms of logistics, I assume I would have to travel at least twice on my personal funds to the UK to go through the different assessments, but do you know anyone who managed to get his trip sponsored by BA at some point, maybe the last round?

Not that I can't fund it myself, but if you know about chaps who managed to do it, I'd gladly take the info!

Anyway, thanks again, and hopefully see you guys at one of the assessments in a few months!

Stocious

11th Feb 2016, 14:26

TFFF

Absolutely no chance I'm afraid!

TFFF

11th Feb 2016, 15:26

I figured.

Had to ask anyway! :ok:

MaydayMaydayMayday

11th Feb 2016, 17:03

Hi folks,
I assume I would have to travel at least twice on my personal funds to the UK to go through the different assessments, but do you know anyone who managed to get his trip sponsored by BA at some point, maybe the last round?

Afraid Stocious is correct. You don't get any travel assistance or perks from BA until after you've commenced employment, having completely finished training. Even then, the full on staff travel perks only begin 6 months after you start working.

There's actually a fair bit of travel involved if you don't live in the south east of England. Assessments, medicals (both from the CAA and BA), family day, etc. If accepted, you'll then also cover the costs of getting yourself to and from the flight school, although I think with CTC and Oxford they sort out the travel to/from NZ or Arizona (someone correct me if that's wrong, please!) during the course. You also need to get yourself to the type rating course (as well as feeding yourself during that period!).

It can end up being a costly business! Still worth it, though! :}

claudiaupear

11th Feb 2016, 22:18

Stocious is absolutely right I'm afraid. I was one of the successful candidates for the FPP last year and made two return trips from Northern Australia for the assessment phase and once successful, for the medical. All at personal expense. Once on the scheme, the school does pay for your flights to Phoenix or NZ but out of a payment you make to them at the beginning of training, so you do pay for it in that sense!

UCDflyer

13th Feb 2016, 17:04

If the applications begin in autumn, when would training begin (summer 2017?).

MaydayMaydayMayday

15th Feb 2016, 12:56

Based on previous years, could be anywhere from spring/summer 2017 through until some time in 2018, but who knows. (Our intake was spread from Autumn 2013 to Summer 2014, having initially applied around Nov 2012)

aravindsasi

16th Mar 2016, 03:38

HI All,

Will they consider applications from Indian nationals?

speedbird_cadet

16th Mar 2016, 14:23

If you have an unrestricted right to live and work in the UK, and meet all the other eligibility criteria then yes I believe you can apply.

sujiong

1st Apr 2016, 22:36

To anyone who has been to the FTE Jerez selection before: I have a degree and A-levels, but I have lost the certificates for my GCSEs. Will it matter if I am not able to prove the GCSEs? Or should I get replacement certificates (at significant cost)? Or will proof of my A-levels and degree suffice?

EZY_FR

4th Apr 2016, 03:29

You need to show evidence of all your academic grades, so perhaps it would be best for you to contact the educational body who set your exams?

sujiong

7th Apr 2016, 18:41

Yeah, did that already - costs a lot to replace them all, but sounds like I'll have to lump it. Thanks!

Stocious

8th Apr 2016, 15:05

It'll be a drop in the ocean compared to what's coming if you do get on the FPP!

ManUtd1999

11th Apr 2016, 17:53

Any news from the Flyer exhibition this weekend re FPP coming back? Still planned for this summer?

HEJT2015

11th Apr 2016, 18:54

You're correct!

FlyVeryHigh-

11th Apr 2016, 19:41

Is there any indication from Saturday on the numbers required?

HEJT2015

11th Apr 2016, 19:54

Yes, BA said they're allowed to take a maximum of 100 cadets.

EZY_FR

12th Apr 2016, 08:12

That's interesting, I was told that they were hoping to take on between 100 and 200 this year.

scottish_aviator

12th Apr 2016, 08:26

Anything more in depth than Summer? Is there a typical month when applications open / close?

EZY_FR

12th Apr 2016, 12:04

Sometime in August

Stocious

13th Apr 2016, 18:08

The manager of BA Pilot Recruitment on Saturday said that no numbers of cadets had been decided yet.

Given recent years, I'd imagine that 50-100 is about normal.

EZY_FR

13th Apr 2016, 19:53

Andy Perkins informed me at the Ba airleague sim event that they are planning to take on 100-200 cadets this year.

Stocious

13th Apr 2016, 20:24

If that's the case then great for me, as I'll continue to shoot up the seniority list. I imagine 200 line training courses for FPP cadets might be a big ask though!

As I say, LC stated no numbers decided yet. Anyway, soon to be a hiatus on recruitment because of a new admin system in the next few months. We'll see what that means.

EZY_FR

14th Apr 2016, 09:16

I would guess, if they do intend to take on that amount, the course start dates would be spread out sporadically to alleviate that problem?

HEJT2015

14th Apr 2016, 11:25

EZY FR - that would be the logical approach

But I guess the more BA cadets they want the better it is for us eh? ;)

MaydayMaydayMayday

14th Apr 2016, 11:38

I would guess, if they do intend to take on that amount, the course start dates would be spread out sporadically to alleviate that problem?
200 would seem like an awfully large number to take in a single year, purely based on training capacity. FPPs take far longer to train once they get to BA than DEPs (more sims required, base training, much longer line training, etc). If they did manage to recruit that sort of number, you'd have to think that training start dates would be spread over a longer period of time than previously. Of course, it could be that that's the plan! :) Either way, there's tons of recruitment to be done, whether FPP or DEP.

EZY_FR

14th Apr 2016, 12:42

MaydayMaydayMayday

14th Apr 2016, 12:55

I think they will do what they did last year and spread it out over an even longer period. Whether they choose to recruit that number I don't know, but the fact that they are looking to take on more than last year bodes well for our chances!

It says a lot of good things that there's so much recruitment, absolutely.

What it gives is more opportunity for those who can make the standard required. Every year, extremely able people have come very close, which is backed up by the number of folk who've been successful on second or third attempts.

What it doesn't do is to indicate any reduction in the standards required to get through selection. If only 60 folk pass everything at the right level, that's how many will get in. If 220 pass everything, they've got a harder task on their hands!

RedMachine

15th Apr 2016, 12:11

Greetings everyone !
I'm curious about one thing, and maybe some of you could advise on this.
BA FPP specifically states the following :
5 GCSEs at Grade C or above, including English Language, Mathematics and a Science (single or double award), excluding General Studies.
This is the mandatory requirement as far as I've understood, besides any additional degree.
My question is, what if I have 4 GCSEs at grade C or above, and the 5th does not meet this criteria? I do however meet the other requirements, and do have a BSc. Am I ruled out instantly because of this or do they acknowledge that people can change after high-school? (Yes, I've been terribly lazy when I was in high-school, I got my act together when I actually attended college).

Thanks !

Stocious

15th Apr 2016, 17:58

Is it an honours degree? BSc(Hons)?

RedMachine

15th Apr 2016, 22:45

Hi Stocious,
Firstly, thank you for your reply.
Secondly, it is BSc(Hons) 2.2 equivalent I believe in the UK (grade 8 here in Romania). Didn't think of mentioning it but the grades I do have on my BSc degree are above C if that matters for any reason.
Cheers !

EZY_FR

16th Apr 2016, 01:39

BA are known to be very strict when it comes to academic requirements, so they tend not to make any exceptions I'm afraid. If I were you, I'd send BA pilot recruitment an email to find out directly from them. [email protected]
Best of luck!!

RedMachine

16th Apr 2016, 07:14

Thank you EZY_FR for your response. I will do just that ! Much appreciated :)

GazG

16th Apr 2016, 13:44

I am going to be applying when the applications open, I have 11 GCSEs grade A*-B and 3 A-Levels: A chemistry, B physics and C in maths. I am just about to graduate from university with a BEng(Hons) in Aerospace Engineering, predicted grade 2:1. I am currently debating if it is worth doing an MSc in Aerospace Engineering or if I should just work through the summer and rack up a few flying hours as I currently have 0.
Any advice would be much appreciated!

TFFF

18th Apr 2016, 03:44

While we are on the education topic, I read we need 5 GSCE at Grade C or above AND either 3 A Levels at grades BBC or an Honours Degree at 2:2 or a pass in an higher degree.

I have a Master's degree in Corporate Finance - it means that I still have to produce my 5 GSCE?

I wonder why BA finds relevant to ask proof of "lower" qualifications if the application actually has a higher degree.

thanks for the help folks!

LandingConfig

18th Apr 2016, 09:39

Neither are requirements, so it's up to you. I'd personally choose the flying.

FLYINGPERCY

18th Apr 2016, 22:29

GazG,

You have to decide what it is you want. I 'be been lazy and not seen if you've posted earlier, so excuse me if you've noted it somewhere in this thread.

It comes down to planning for the future as well as your immediate goals. Finances are I presume not infinite, therefore, which option puts you in the best position? I would say an MSC as with an engineering MSC your setting yourself up very nicely, whatever you decide to go on and do.

If you've thoroughly researched the industry, understand what it's like to be a commercial pilot and will accept the enormous sacrifices it will take to get there, then a few hours in a plane is neither here nor there (but of course would be fun). If its the FPP you've your eye on, then chat to people who've passed selection and get preparing now... everyone who has passed the FPP selection, I guarantee, worked theirs backsides off, so make no mistake you'll have to do just that to get through. If it does not work out this time, you'll get more chances, but that MSC might just come in handy in the meantime...

Good luck in whatever course of action you decide to take.

FlyANA

19th Apr 2016, 11:41

Hi Gaz,

I'd suggest going for the Masters, getting a few hours light aircraft in your spare time and going for the FPP while working through it. BA will be looking for a bit of maturity and experience as each MPL has a different type of person in mind. If you've got extra skills that have the potential to make you a specialist Pilot in future (Tech pilot/management Pilot/Safety Officer etc.) then that stands out as well. So many skilled people go for these positions, you need to bring more to the table than anyone else! A Msc would help there.

Also, if it doesn't work out then you have a solid fall back and career options to tide you over to the next intake and so on. Just make sure that you love what you're doing and best of luck!

Chris4

19th Apr 2016, 18:56

Hi,

I've been interested in flying and being a pilot since I was pretty young. I went flying a few times, once as a birthday present at the local airfield and once or twice with a friend, as well as maybe 3 times through the CCF RAF at school. When I was around 16 I decided to 'let go' of that dream and think about becoming a pilot later.

So I did my A-levels and went to uni, and haven't flown since I was 16 (apart from on EasyJet & Ryanair of course!). Now I'm finishing my degree and thinking of applying for this year's FPP. My question is would it be desirable for candidates to have recent flying experience, sort of as a proof that it really is something they are interested in doing?

Just because I'm on a tight budget at the moment until I find a job (and maybe after I find a job...), so managing to get flying experience may prove difficult.

Also if the rumours of late Summer for applications are true, would this mean start of training mid 2017?

GazG

19th Apr 2016, 19:32

Thank you all for the advice, I think I'm going to go for the MSc but still apply for BA FPP in Autumn which means I've got a little while to prepare. Ill probably do around 10 hours flying between now and applying just to get a little bit of flying experience.

GazG

20th Apr 2016, 08:12

Chris from what I've heard is that you don't need any flying experience, however I would say a good 10-20 hours just to show interest could be beneficial. My friend who was successful for last years intake told me that they are more interested in you as a person, they like to see how you interact with others as CRM is a crucial part of flying.

Taking into account everything I've been told on here, from friends, cabin crew and from professional pilots; I'm going to graduate this year, get a job over summer and gain as many flying hours as I can. It's going to be hard work, however considering that I won't have anything else to be studying for, I should have plenty of free time to practice mental maths and psychometrics.

As a backup plan I'm going to apply for an MSc in Aerospace Engineering at my university, if I don't get accepted into BA then I'll continue with the MSc and apply next year.

As for the rumours I'd love to know the truth about them myself. My friend applied in March last year and didn't start training until March this year. It would be great if autumn applicants start autumn 2017 as that will give me time to finish an MSc!

TFFF

21st Apr 2016, 07:14

hey folks,

Any ideas on my question above?
Cheers

FlyANA

21st Apr 2016, 10:55

DutchC

23rd Apr 2016, 12:47

Was there any indication whatsoever that the FPP could/will continue beyond 2016?

Stocious

23rd Apr 2016, 20:45

yes it probably will

TFFF

4th May 2016, 15:53

For all the courses you will need to provide proof of all your qualifications. CTC and BA will want to understand your history and work out who you are as a person, so having all the results builds a picture of who you are. It's also best practice.

Not too sure how marks on a paper helps them figure out who I am but fine.

Any books you guys could recommend to help prepare the interviews?
Especially on the numerical reasoning part...

It's a jungle out there.. If there are good books that you know of, shoot please!:ok:

Thanks a mil.

scorpii

6th May 2016, 03:18

FlyANA

6th May 2016, 12:24

Not too sure how marks on a paper helps them figure out who I am but fine.

Well, its the same for any interview, good grades usually (not always!) translate into good workers.

For my final interview I was asked to talk through my whole CV history, starting from college. Part of that was explaining the grades, why I got the scores I did, how I dealt with the courses/workload, what I learned etc.

Providing evidence stops any overt fibbing for this section!

MaydayMaydayMayday

6th May 2016, 17:15

Scorpii, from applying to getting the final 'congrats' email, took about five months when we did it.

Can't tell you if it's been the same each year, but mine went like this a few years back...

26th Nov - Registered
2nd Dec - Online application submitted
14th Dec - Invite to assessment day 1
Jan 14th - Assessment day 1
Feb 22nd - Invite to final assessment
Mar 25th - Final assessment
Apr 15th - Reply!

After this, you then also have to be around for things like medicals (one with the CAA or NATS, one at BA) and a family day (although perhaps not compulsory? Can't remember! Worthwhile, though.)

G-F0RC3

6th May 2016, 18:58

...and a family day (although perhaps not compulsory? Can't remember! Worthwhile, though.)

The family day isn't compulsory; a few haven't been able to make it for one reason or another. But definitely agree that it's worthwhile (and a great opportunity for relatives to [attempt] to fly the jumbo sim :p).

scorpii

7th May 2016, 03:36

EZY_FR

10th May 2016, 08:18

Hi all, been hanging around for quite some time but haven't posted yet. I have a couple of questions.

I have searched the thread, and likely my answer is buried somewhere in the 170+ pages, but can't find it!

1: Is there any indication from past years how long the interview and assessment process will be/has been in past years?
i.e. from the first assessments, through interviews (if successful), to the final stage you have to physically turn up to something.

I am currently living overseas, so would have to take time off work and book flights back to the UK, but ideally would keep this period away from work as short as possible (employer won't be too happy regardless!)

2: In past years, what has been the period between the programme opening for applications and candidates being called up for interviews etc?

Thanks all! Very much appreciate any help and input.

I applied last year and got quite far into the process before I got the chop. I don't recall exactly when I received invites, but I will do my best to hopefully give you a good indicator:
Early March: sent application off to FTE;
March 10th: received invite for fte assessment
March 26th: attended assessment
April 14th: received invite to attend BA assessments.
1st May: attended assessments

I failed after this point, but I know final interviews took place from the 5th to around the 14th (give or take 1 or 2 days). All those who attended the interviews found out their outcome on the 20th May. When compared to Mayday's selection process, you can see that everything took place in a much smaller window.

scorpii

12th May 2016, 05:40

Thanks a lot EZY, that's very helpful. Interesting to know that the timescales can vary quite a lot between applicants, and presumably FTOs as well.

Jmslwl

14th May 2016, 15:17

Hi Guys,

Does anyone know (roughly) the duration for which the application window is open?

I'm road-tripping for the 2nd and 3rd week of August - the dates the FPP is rumoured to re-open - and would hate to miss the application process due to being away!

Thanks.

LandingConfig

14th May 2016, 23:18

Was only two weeks last year.

PiterPSP

19th Jun 2016, 17:28

Hi. Can anyone who provided NARIC letter claryfie the matter of putting grades into application form? I send an email to NARIC with few questions and they told me "Unfortunately we are unable to provide a comparability statement for grades obtained in these qualifications"
So what about the required A-level BBC and 5xC in GCSE's?

mateusz22

21st Jun 2016, 20:52

https://www.naric.org.uk/naric/Individuals/Compare%20Qualifications/documents/SoC.pdf

If you look at the example of statement of comparability, you will see the statement, that your qualification/grades are equal to GCSE grade C or above (if they are obviously). I've done mine earlier this year and they state that all the grades/pass on my certificates are equivalent to GCSE grade c or above. Hope that helps.

PiterPSP

30th Jun 2016, 08:07

Thanks for reply. At least I will know if I meet the minimums but it looks like I will have to enter particular grades basing on reasults I achieved and partly guess if I should enter A*, A, B or C
I heard that above grades are approximately 100-90, 90-80, 80-70 and 70-60% of points respectively. So I think I will follow that as my exams are graded in percents.
Any clue if that's correct?

sudden twang

30th Jun 2016, 10:58

No flying experience no money?
One thing I do know is that the average pilot bends over backwards to give someone a leg up. If you pitch up at your local flying club/ school and ask politely I'm sure you could sit in on briefings sit in the back and observe flying training or even get some handling.
Much more impressive at interview than ....(ah better not quote what I was going to).

Northern Monkey

2nd Jul 2016, 08:45

Rumours now that FPP is on hold - certainly won't open in August. Under review post Brexit. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

momo95

2nd Jul 2016, 13:04

Certainly doesn't seem strange to me if true, we have alienated ourselves, this will naturally have an impact on business, particularly to an industry as sensitive as the aviation industry.

speed_alive_rotate

2nd Jul 2016, 13:07

Ryanair : not investing in the UK after Brexit
Easyjet :looking at the prospect of moving HQ out of UK after Brexit

How is it so surprising??

parkfell

2nd Jul 2016, 13:53

momo95

2nd Jul 2016, 15:21

Until BA come out with a statement of intent it remains speculation.

Bear in mind that although European operations might be under the spotlight, the long haul continues unabated.
Retirements continue a pace, and crew shortage another.
Population: 7% EU 93% the rest of the world

Far too many Cpl Jones' about........

But the BA short haul feeds their long haul, how do you know it won't have an affect? No one can quite tell exactly what will and won't happen but based on news regarding other airlines post brexit - the rumour stated above certainly doesn't seem infathomable.

RexBanner

2nd Jul 2016, 15:51

Northern Monkey the FPP was already under review with Alex Cruz allegedly expressing a desire to can it. That's got nothing to do with Brexit but everything to do with insurance premiums and the inability of the new recruits to fly the A321, the decision predated the vote by a few weeks.

parkfell

2nd Jul 2016, 16:37

And that is why a decision was taken to not allow "new recruits" to fly the BA A321s. The tailstrike at Glasgow last summer proved to be somewhat expensive.

Start off on less vulnerable airbus'. This is not a new consideration. When GBair were consumed by EZY, the issue of potential A321(ex GB fleet) tailstrikes was very much a live issue. Always easy to be wise after the event, but not always possible to prevent, even when THREAT & ERROR management is fully applied to all activities.

RexBanner

2nd Jul 2016, 16:48

Parkfell don't shoot the messenger. One thing you should know about Alex Cruz is that he scrutinises every penny. In addition to that it's not particularly efficient to be paying short haul pilots who can't operate one of the fleet. That's what I believe this comes down to.

RexBanner

2nd Jul 2016, 16:56

Keeflyer as I've already said, this story was doing the rounds at BA weeks before the brexit vote and when the opinion polls were still firmly in favour of remain. It has got absolutely nothing to do with Brexit at all, not just alone, despite the fertile imaginations on here. Need I say it again? The termination of the FPP is nothing to do with Britain leaving the EU.

RexBanner

2nd Jul 2016, 17:00

It was meant for you as you said "it won't be because of brexit alone". It won't be because of Brexit....at all!!

RexBanner

2nd Jul 2016, 17:04

You might want to check that grammar if you're applying to BA!

EZY_FR

2nd Jul 2016, 17:37

Based off a friend I know within the airline, the FPP could certainly end up being put on hold. He got his info from a recruiter/interviewer. He also added that it MAY be possible for them to start taking the top % of cadets from each FTO. Regardless of what has been said here, you should treat it all as pure speculation until we hear directly from the horse's mouth.

momo95

2nd Jul 2016, 18:33

That would certainly be interesting.

parkfell

2nd Jul 2016, 20:30

ManUtd1999

3rd Jul 2016, 20:31

Are we sure this isn't PPrune rumours going into overdrive? BA have been confident for a long time now that the FPP will open this summer.

On a related note, if anyone is going to the exhibition in Leeds next weekend posts some clearer answers it would be much appreciated :)

Jwscud

3rd Jul 2016, 20:44

I'm pretty sure it isn't just rumour too. I've heard the same from close to the horse's mouth.

skyblue12

4th Jul 2016, 16:05

I think I'm definitely going to have to attend the pilot event in Leeds now and ask someone at BA myself, it would be good to get to the bottom of the rumours.

It would be such a shame if it was on hold.

MaydayMaydayMayday

4th Jul 2016, 16:11

It is just a pity that the new recruits didn't/couldn't start off of the 737s to earn their spurs.

At least the BA students going through training in the late 1980s, early 1990s at Prestwick/Oxford then had steam driven ac to build a solid foundation, before migrating onto more sophisticated types.
The initial part of any apprenticeship needs a fundamental building block.

If you are in any doubt, ask one of them next time you fly with what will now be a fairly senior chap.
Or maybe the Viscount, or the BAC One eleven? ;) The 737-400 was well past its best. I'd say it's more of a shame that there weren't things like the highlands and islands routes of days gone by. I'd have loved to start off on a turboprop buzzing around in ****ty weather. My F Reg Audi 80 didn't have power steering, although I'm not convinced making someone drive it will make them a better driver than someone with a new A3 as their first car. Operational experience strikes me as the key thing, which is why starting on smaller aircraft with lots of sectors and shorter routes seems more effective than using older technology for the sake of it. It does make you wonder about the schemes where folk go straight to long haul.

Anyway, there's no reason that cadets shouldn't be cutting their teeth by taking all of the automatics/FD's, etc out and flying the Airbus manually on a regular basis, at least once the capacity bucket has enough space in it.

Chris4

4th Jul 2016, 16:35

I am going to the thingmajicky in Leeds this Saturday (pretty convenient location for me, so no reason not too!). I'll report back any answers I get.

skyblue12

4th Jul 2016, 18:48

The termination of the FPP is nothing to do with Britain leaving the EU.

Does anyone have confirmation of this?

MaydayMaydayMayday

4th Jul 2016, 23:22

I would suggest that neither does the poster know whether it has been terminated (or postponed) nor whether or not it has anything to do with the current political situation. I'd also suggest that any company who didn't consider potential negative effects on the economy in relation to their short to mid term recruitment or expansion probably wouldn't be doing their jobs very well, alongside a whole load of other factors.

In short, nobody but the recruitment team knows what they intend and, even then, they are probably dependent on a green light from the accountants before committing to any plans.

Northern Monkey

6th Jul 2016, 07:41

Straight from the horses mouth of the recruitment team. No Launch of FPP this summer. There is a review of the scheme ongoing to see in what shape or form it may re launch in the future.

Personally I cannot believe it is a permanent move. Cadet schemes at EasyJet and Ryanair are beneficial to the airlines. They provide a stream of qualified people who they can pay less than an experienced pilot. The A321 issue is a red herring. The rules have changed to say that cadets with less than 6 months experience cannot land the A321. All that means is that they are pilot not flying for that sector.

LandingConfig

6th Jul 2016, 11:07

Why can't cadets land the A321?

kirungi1

6th Jul 2016, 12:41

LandingConfig; Probably the size element of the A321 would require a certain degree of experience (knowhow) reflected in PIC logged. It's a bigger aircraft for sure :confused:

parkfell

6th Jul 2016, 13:17

In common with all ac, it is a question of using the prescribed techniques as laid down by the manufacturer. It is as simple as that.

The longer the ac, the more aware you become of the potential for a tailstrike.
And that applies to Boeing as well, especially flying the 737-800.

Do what it says on the tin.

ManUtd1999

6th Jul 2016, 16:57

Personally I cannot believe it is a permanent move. Cadet schemes at EasyJet and Ryanair are beneficial to the airlines. They provide a stream of qualified people who they can pay less than an experienced pilot. The A321 issue is a red herring. The rules have changed to say that cadets with less than 6 months experience cannot land the A321. All that means is that they are pilot not flying for that sector.

I'd agree with that. The inefficiency in rostering for 6 months if cadets can't operate the A321 (or at least can't operate significant numbers of sectors as they would have to be PNF for all of them) is surely outweighed by their lower salaries. And a lot of cadets go to LGW where there aren't any A321's anyway...

What I fear is that the delay is actually due to costs or Brexit fears. BA has one of the better schemes out there at present for cadets with the bond repayment, loan guarantee and relatively good salary on offer. I hope to be proved wrong, but this could be the new chairman's famous cost control having an impact

LandingConfig

6th Jul 2016, 21:32

Granted it has a longer a fuselage and hence increased risk of tailstrike but wouldn't have thought cadets would be exempt from being PF.

Northern Monkey

7th Jul 2016, 10:56

There is a long history (world wide) of tail strikes occurring, even on the A320, due to inappropriate landing technique being employed by inexperienced pilots. Hence why cadets at EasyJet are not permitted to do Flap 3 landings for the first period of their line flying due to the increased risk of a tail strike.

It is however particularly relevant to the A321. A simple way of mitigating the risk is to say that when the A321 is flown, the Captain is the PF. It really doesn't throw up any rostering problems at all so I don't see why that, in itself, would cost the airline money. I suppose insurance costs do increase if you employ cadets but that is surely offset by the fact they are paid considerably less.

I would be gobsmacked if BA didn't launch another cadet program at some point in the future, but I would wager that a) It will not be in 2016 and b) when it does launch the terms and conditions may be different (worse) than the current scheme.

Lindsay Craig

7th Jul 2016, 16:56

Hello everyone,

Gosh it's a long time since I posted on here but I thought it might be a good time to do before heading up to Leeds tomorrow for Pilot Careers Live.

So, always interesting to hear the various rumours and ideas on PPRuNe, and to see that phrase 'the horse's mouth'. One of my colleagues has been quoted on here, pretty much verbatim, so I thought I could add some context to what's been said.

We've just managed, in the last month or so, to draw some breath from what has been the most intense period of pilot recruitment in BA's history. Over the period 2015-16 BA will take on over 700 new pilots - a record as far as we know in our history. We've been totally immersed in making that happen, and that's involved a huge number of interviews, simulator checks, tests, roadshows and visits to meet pilots based in the Middle East and Hong Kong. We're really pleased to now be ahead of the curve, for want of a better phrase, and to have fully filled all our vacancies up until the end of October. We have more offers going out for November and December and we have FPP graduates and DEP hold poolers to cover all those vacancies.

So, we now have the time to devote energy to FPP (although 2017 will be upon us before we know it so we're keeping a very close eye on our DEP numbers as well!) but our workload means we won't be launching FPP in the near future. We do want to re-open, but after 5 years of the scheme we're looking carefully at a number of things before re-launching. As such, I'd use the aviation phrase 'delay undetermined'. Don't panic if you're way in August - the opening there was only a rumour. I cannot commit to quite when we'll have news, but if you can make it to Leeds I will be there with three of my colleagues - two of whom are FPP graduates who now fly the line with us on the A320 fleet. We'd all love to meet you and to talk about your aspirations to fly, and to offer whatever advice we can. Do stop by if you can. Leeds will be my last PCL show, as it's time for my recruitment wings to take a break! After 1000 pilots recruited I'm handing over to a new manager at the end of this month, so she'll be looking after things from thereon in.

There has never been a recruitment environment like this for as long as I can remember, so it's very interesting times. I hope that it's bearing fruit for people finding first flying jobs, and for those thinking about entering cadet/mentored programmes with other airlines also.

jswift98

11th Jul 2016, 23:25

Does anyone know if your can apply for the scheme with a PPL?

TheTypicalBrit

11th Jul 2016, 23:51

JSwift, If you read Lindsay's post, then I doubt you'll be able to apply for quite some time.

PiterPSP

12th Jul 2016, 09:07

Jswift Please read at least BA FPP site and FAQs there before posting on forum.Yes PPL is allowed.

Thank you for calryfing the situation in BA recruitment team, Lindsay. It looks like we have to wait for another FPP. The question is for how long. I guess FPP will be re-opened no sooner than 2017. Maybe not the best info for some but on the other hand look how much more time we have to get prepared for next intake! I'm personally glad FPP is delayed because I would miss it this year due to GCSE in English which is the only criterion I don't meet and have to take the exam (lucky you English natives! :D)

DCon

12th Jul 2016, 09:25

Thanks for the post Lindsay, clears a lot up.

Also, great presentation at the Leeds event! Best one of the day.

Chopper93

26th Jul 2016, 14:06

What a shame. As Lindsay says, rumours are but rumours. It was hard not to get excited when they said the FPP applications would be this summer.
But alas!

Hopefully the next FPP opening will not be too far off....

momo95

26th Jul 2016, 16:09

Didn't Lindsay himself tell us all it's off in this very thread ... ?

Chopper93

26th Jul 2016, 16:21

Yes, that was a technical error on my part! Meant to save that as a draft and then delete it! Shamefully, I mis-read Lindsay's post the first time around.

kirungi1

24th Aug 2016, 13:02

It would be great reading from you, successful BA FPP candidates over the years, on how things have moved on through training up until line training et cetera. Are you placed into the pool after your training? Are you enjoying the challenge? and briefly which part of the whole process thus far has been more demanding? Thank you.

momo95

24th Aug 2016, 13:29

yes ... would be interesting to hear from the likes of G-F0RC3 etc who I imagine are well on their way ...

G-F0RC3

2nd Sep 2016, 08:59

Thanks for asking. I've been flying the Airbus for BA for almost three months now.

Biggest challenge: For me was probably Line Training. Transitioning from the simulator into the real aircraft (and all the additional things that are involved with that) is pretty demanding to begin with.

Best bits: The views from the flight deck. Getting to explore places I'd never have visited.

Worst bits: Getting up at half three for early reports. It never gets easier (for me - at least), but with the way the bidding and swapping of trips etc all goes it's possible to avoid early reports on the whole. Some people prefer the earlies.

And that's about it. BA is great to work for, and I'm very much enjoying it. :ok:

momo95

2nd Sep 2016, 11:20

kirungi1

2nd Sep 2016, 11:57

G-FORC3; Great hearing from you once again. I'm grateful to momo95 for guidance.
Well done for the challenges but I have to say reading that sounds like music, all so beautiful and satisfying. Did you have to swim in the holding pool? :)

ManUtd1999

5th Nov 2016, 17:41

Any updates on future cadet recruitment from Flyer today?

tfin25

5th Nov 2016, 18:24

Nothing official announced today. They're deciding which route to go down for "FPP 2" as the guy put it. Theyre considering whether they want to do an atpl, some form of apprenticeship or MPL etc.

He said the next round of cadet recruitment will probably be announced mid to late 2017.

Speedbird148

5th Nov 2016, 19:31

Thanks for the update :)

ManUtd1999

6th Nov 2016, 14:17

Cheers for the update. Certainly sounds more positive than earlier in the year then.

SkyRocket10

8th Nov 2016, 15:22

When the scheme does the-open, don't be surprised if it is ala CTC/EasyJet flexicrew style. A two year temporary contract, followed by the chance of a permanent contract at the end. This is directly from someone who has a large influence on the FPP scheme.

TheTypicalBrit

8th Nov 2016, 18:53

SkyRocket10, have you been bribing senior BA Training managers again?

I told you to stop.

But on the serious side, if it reopens I'd still apply even if it in a different style.

Maverick97

8th Nov 2016, 20:50

Any insight as to whether it'll be a MPL or ATPL program if they do change it up a tad?

PressTheTit

8th Nov 2016, 20:53

I am still seeing a steady trickle of FPP cadets being offered A320 courses on LinkedIn. Does anyone know how many are left to come through from last year?

SpeedBird2233

9th Nov 2016, 13:00

Afternoon Ladies & Gents,

I've been looking through this thread on & off for the last few years! With the dream to become a pilot but a contract ending in late 2017, I haven't had the opportunity to apply to either BA or any other cadetships so far. With the possible release of an "FPP2" as I believe it was called, i'm quite interested to ask a couple of thread veterans some questions!

-First Q was about some grade requirements:
Do you think the application boundaries will drop from the A/Ls BBC to GCSEs only? & what are the advantages/disadvantages for an airline if they changed these application requirements?

The qualifications i'm gaining through my apprenticeship will equate to 3 A Levels, but I cant be certain that BA accepts the type of qualification that i'll receive, whether it be equivalent or not. Of course Virgin have a 5 GCSE minimum but I was under the impression BA only used A Levels to chop down application volume.

-Second Q was about previous flying experience:
Does the prior amount of air-time you have affect an airline/flight school's view on you?

I'm practically a lesson away from completing my PPL & I don't really have the intention to stop flying afterwards as i'm enjoying it so much! Looking into doing a night and tail rating too. The reason I ask this is after questioning both BA pilots (from recruitment) and ground-based BA pilot recruiters & CTC recruitment staff, they both had different answers.

Replies in brief below, obviously both did say don't do ATPL Exams
BA Pilot: No more than 90-100 hours PIC. Try to stay away from instrumentation (IMC ect...)
Non-Pilot Recruiters & CTC Staff: Do as much flying as possible.

I know the post is a tad on the long-side, but i'd appreciate any reply.

Cheers!

universe77

9th Nov 2016, 17:30

Regarding flying hours I'd say 90-100 hours should be your maximum. Only basing this on a couple of conversations and my own gut feeling but I think any more than this and you're getting into the 'perhaps they have picked up some bad habits' territory.

I think 90-100 hours perfectly demonstrates your interest and commitment to flying. There would be no real added value in flying more than this amount in terms of supporting your application - in fact it may actually reduce your attractiveness as a candidate.

MaverickPrime

9th Nov 2016, 19:19

claudiaupear

10th Nov 2016, 08:07

I am still seeing a steady trickle of FPP cadets being offered A320 courses on LinkedIn. Does anyone know how many are left to come through from last year?

Hi, I think all have now started the flying phase of training, the last ones to arrive in NZ are about 10 trips into the VFR phase so still a steady stream to come through from last year. We expect to be productive some time next summer as one of the November starters, just gone past the one year point.

wiggy

10th Nov 2016, 08:25

SpeedBird2233

I would strongly second MaverickPs comment.

We are still waiting to see the implications of the new business plan and we have a CEO is who is intent on cost cutting. If you are really want to get into the industry don't make career plans based on there being a future FPP because there might not be one (that's just an IMHO, not an informed rumour).

Even if there a future FPP....you'll feel a bit sick if you deliberately stop training, sit on your hands, apply months/years down the road if FPP does reopen and then for some unknown reason like the vast majority of applicants get a PFO letter/e-mail when you could have been half way through an approved course or even working somewhere.

SpeedBird2233

10th Nov 2016, 13:53

Universe, Mav & Wiggy,

Thanks for the replies, I do understand where you're coming from and completely respect what you're trying to say.
If the FPP or equivalent isn't scheduled to open in late 2017 / early 2018 then I am going to strongly consider self-sponsored options & other airline schemes.
As I said in the original post, i'm contracted to end the training scheme i'm on currently in late 2017 anyway so there's no moving anywhere for me until then. With this in mind, I do fully intend to wait & listen to see if BA come up with something. If they don't, or the scheme they create doesn't suit me, I'll look elsewhere.

Inmric

29th Jan 2017, 19:13

Any update for this year?

Thanks!

planesandthings

31st Jan 2017, 12:35

Any update for this year?

Thanks!
Closed indefinitely at the moment as last heard from Lindsay, former recruitment manager. BA continues to go through major changes as an Airline, it's a rather different company to what it was when FPP was first launched, FPP hopefully will return, but who knows if it'll remain the same as previous years.

Can't rule out 2017 but I wouldn't hold your breath for now. A rumour got people excited about A Level Results day 2016 and it turned into absolutely nothing. I'm sure this thread will start buzzing again when there's a new rumour/information.

wiggy

31st Jan 2017, 12:52

Very sound advice.

Everything is changing v rapidly, with the emphasis being costs.....or cutting thereof.

momo95

31st Jan 2017, 13:28

Then I wonder what all this talk is about BA staff being spotted a few times around two FTOs in particular and having meetings with senior people. The rumours at those two schools indicate something is to launch at some stage in 2017.

Groundloop

31st Jan 2017, 14:55

Airline staff visit the major FTOs on a regular basis for all sorts of reasons.

momo95

31st Jan 2017, 17:58

That is true, however I was specifically told by people at the school that something was in the pipeline and that was the reason they were there. I heard this from more than one independent source. Just wait and see if anything happens I guess.

planesandthings

1st Feb 2017, 05:29

Bottom line is, if something is happening, it's only senior management that know about it.
Anything that school says is obviously unofficial and probably is a while off yet. It does sound like very much though if your rumour is true about just two schools, that FPP will be potentially returning in a different form to before.
Currently the bean counters are at work at BA cutting just about everything, so I'd not be too hopeful for any grand sponsorship scheme. I'd love to be wrong though!

Alsacienne

1st Feb 2017, 06:02

After BOB, are we looking at P2F?

fenny

1st Feb 2017, 10:01

I've been told that the FPP is under review, my thoughts are that they might be considering the swap from the ATPL to an MPL course. I believe FPP was only expected to run until 2016 anyway.

Inmric

3rd Feb 2017, 17:29

Closed indefinitely at the moment as last heard from Lindsay, former recruitment manager. BA continues to go through major changes as an Airline, it's a rather different company to what it was when FPP was first launched, FPP hopefully will return, but who knows if it'll remain the same as previous years.

Can't rule out 2017 but I wouldn't hold your breath for now. A rumour got people excited about A Level Results day 2016 and it turned into absolutely nothing. I'm sure this thread will start buzzing again when there's a new rumour/information.
Thanks for so kind advice! Let's see what happens in that case... Hope some news will turn up as clock ticks :)
I'm optimistic about they won't start with a P2F scheme... Anyway, all seems to be at senior staff hands'...

Speedbird148

7th Feb 2017, 17:27

BA are going to be at CTCs next careers event.....

Hoddington

7th Feb 2017, 19:14

I must admit, getting the email earlier did make me wonder, but they were at the event last July (when a lot of us expected an announcement about FPP opening) and in the end their presence was as an (S)FO talking more generally about CTC and the career, so don't assume this will be any different. Though Kate's talk was great, so very well worth attending even if this ends up being the extent of the BA involvement in the day.

planesandthings

8th Feb 2017, 10:29

All of this is speculation at best. CTC does invite many of their partners and would surely make a bigger thing of this, though I'd like to be proven wrong!

BA has attended the Pilot Careers shows regardless of FPP. Keeping the interest going I guess.

Also the photo I've seen for the event is of BA Cityflyer aircraft. Which hires totally separately to mainline, but through CTC (though most cadet pilots come from FTE)

All will be revealed... or not

wiggy

8th Feb 2017, 15:18

All will be revealed... or not

I'd second that and add: I know many here are looking for definite info and waiting for some news about the scheme. Experience shows (but I've been been wrong before) that it probably wouldn't be the "BA way" for the company to make an announcement that they were "closing" FPP for ever, or for the next X years, since that leaves them victim to fortune ( if there's a sudden upturn in demand for pilots) and the media ("BA stops recruiting").

If it is going to be scrapped it will possible it will just be allowed to "wither on the vine" as part of cost cutting., Certainly if LC says the scheme is "closed indefinitely at the moment" (permalink #3521)that is a pretty big hint, fingers crossed it gets revitalised at some point.

Chris the Robot

8th Feb 2017, 17:20

Who knows what's going to happen, though I do hear that they are going to have a retirement bulge at some point in the near future (and that's from a contact I know who works there).

If all goes to plan, I won't be able to apply for a couple of years since I'm changing career right now. Given my luck, that means BA will probably offer a fully sponsored Lingus-esque gig!

Bealzebub

8th Feb 2017, 18:25

I do hear that they are going to have a retirement bulge at some point in the near future (and that's from a contact I know who works there).

The problem with so called "retirement bulges" is that they almost never happen. If you take a group of pilots of any age, what tends to happen is that the group is subject to attrition significantly before it reaches compulsory retirement age. Medical failures, early retirement, part time working etc. All of these factors and more besides erode the numbers involved before they reach 65, just as they used to at 60, and 55 before that.

wiggy

8th Feb 2017, 19:54

What Beazlebub said and I agree with his logic. Despite the rumours it's certainly not going to "big" bulge :E for the forseeable future, 2015 and especially 2016 were exceptional years for recruiting.

The "65ers" are already starting to leave but it's not big numbers, it's a trickle due previous attrition, etc.

planesandthings

8th Feb 2017, 22:08

I agree too. BA have seen heavy DEP recruitment in the last few years from places like EZY. Hence opportunities open up there. Last I heard there were some DEP pilots on some sort of waitlist. So yet another retirement bulge or "pilot shortage" will become nothing more than a false headline.

Omies

25th Feb 2017, 00:33

Doesn't look like BA FPP will return anytime soon.

However, BA/CTC will announce a "tagging" scheme tomorrow at CTC's careers event, where they will be interviewing Whitetail cadets nearing the end of the training for placement with BA.

I'd imagine there will be more details to come tomorrow with the official announcement.

planesandthings

25th Feb 2017, 23:46

Yup, sounds like that was all that was announced. BA has done this before though so it's nothing new, another great marketing opportunity for CTC to sell their Whitetail course though, despite the fact the vast majority will end up with the Orange lot with BA taking a small handful of people.

DutchC

26th Feb 2017, 02:38

If someone was pushed to say when FPP would be back, if it is back, would Spring 2018 be a reasonable estimate?

Inmric

26th Feb 2017, 10:47

If someone who had attended to CTC's Open day, could sum up a bit what was shown there... It would be great!
Thank you!

gbotley

26th Feb 2017, 11:07

Hi, the FPP in its former form is not being resurrected I'm afraid. It's a new exclusive arrangement with CTC in that BA will be tagging whitetail cadets at the end of the ground school stage.

The full criteria was as follows:

o 5 GCSE’s at C or above, including English Language, Mathematics and a Science subject (single or double award) excluding general studies

o PLUS EITHER 3 A levels or equivalent, at grades BBC or above (General Studies
excluded)

o OR an Honours degree at 2:2 or higher or a pass or above in a higher degree such as MSc, MA, MPhil, DPhil, PhD or MBA

o If you have equivalent academic qualifications then you will be asked to provide a Letter of Comparability from UK NARIC before attending your first selection day. The Scottish education qualification equivalents are detailed in the FAQ page

• EASA Class 1 medical and able to meet British Airways medical criteria

• A valid passport (with minimum of 12 months before expiry date) allowing unrestricted worldwide travel

• The unrestricted right to live and work in the UK

o No more than 1 ground school fail
o Minimum of 85% average
o No course deferral

• Your height will be between1.57m (5'2") and 1.91m (6'3") with weight in proportion to height (height is accurately determined during the assessment process).

- Based at either Gatwick or Heathrow on the Airbus fleet.

- Tagging currently available to only those cadets in the ground school stage of training at this time.

- CTC placement team to put names forward based on ground school performance.

- Cadets must then pass assessment at waterside.

TheTypicalBrit

26th Feb 2017, 11:20

GBotley will you applying for that when you finish CTC?

wiggy

26th Feb 2017, 11:36

If someone was pushed to say when FPP would be back, if it is back, would Spring 2018 be a reasonable estimate?

What can be said is as far as BA are concerned there are a load of DEPs waiting in line (in and outside the pool) and the CEO, Alex Cruz is a great believer in cutting costs. FPP was great while it lasted ( for both the individuals and to some extent the corporate image), but when you consider where BA has gone with the likes of catering you'll perhaps see why the aim will be to spend as little on pilot recruitment as possible. Makes sense to me to look at the sort of scheme gbotley suggested if you want to recruit complete newbies, rather than go through the expense of screening and interviewing applicants with little or no proven flying/aviation background.

'If FPP has gone it is a shame though.......

Officer Kite

26th Feb 2017, 12:01

gbotley

26th Feb 2017, 12:59

TheTypicalBrit,

It's not a case of the cadet applying, it's a somewhat headhunting arrangement. CTC Aviation put forward the names of certain cadets to BA whom then invite them to Waterside for BA's own selection event.

FlyVeryHigh-

26th Feb 2017, 13:21

George, in regards to your point about this only being eligible to cadets currently enrolled in ground school, does this mean that if I hypothetically start a whitetail course in a month's time, then I wouldn't have this opportunity?

DutchC

26th Feb 2017, 13:30

What can be said is as far as BA are concerned there are a load of DEPs waiting in line (in and outside the pool) and the CEO, Alex Cruz is a great believer in cutting costs. FPP was great while it lasted ( for both the individuals and to some extent the corporate image), but when you consider where BA has gone with the likes of catering you'll perhaps see why the aim will be to spend as little on pilot recruitment as possible. Makes sense to me to look at the sort of scheme gbotley suggested if you want to recruit complete newbies, rather than go through the expense of screening and interviewing applicants with little or no proven flying/aviation background.

'If FPP has gone it is a shame though.......
Say it ain't so! Ah, dreams well and truly shattered.

I suspect with this tie-up with CTC it does look like that BA FPP is pretty much finished.

ManUtd1999

26th Feb 2017, 13:36

Is this a permanent arrangement for BA then? Or more of a stop-gap to tide them over the next X months/years?

Sounds like an excellent opportunity for a few Whitetail cadets to get a job without the whole self-sponsored type rating & Flexicrew rubbish (I presume?)

Another nail in the coffin for anyone unwilling or unable to pay 100,000+ for their training.......

Perhaps what's most striking it that BA are no longer seeking the best available cadets, only the best out of a very select pool. Still a very high standard I'm sure, but very few companies outside of aviation would do that.

Chris the Robot

26th Feb 2017, 14:07

Well "why should we pay when people are queuing up to pay for themselves" is likely the attitude.

I do often wish we could all get together and agree to not pay anything (i'll keep dreaming lol) ... and watch how all the airlines start paying for us instead. Only in this industry can they get away with the status quo, we do ourselves no favours. Join the railway, as I have. You'll find no-one paying for training here, despite the fact that the training I'm going through costs more than CTC. Better pension too.

Perhaps what's most striking it that BA are no longer seeking the best available cadets, only the best out of a very select pool. Still a very high standard I'm sure, but very few companies outside of aviation would do that. Spot on. There just isn't the political will to do anything about it unfortunately. You'd think BALPA would be all over it like a rash, sadly not.

Sad to see that the FPP has been killed off it seems, not totally surprised since Alex Cruz was brought in to cut costs. Looks like it's over to Easyjet to see what they can come up with, not exactly getting my hopes up for you folks though...

At my place, if someone turned up offering to pay for their own training, they'd get laughed out the door. Management want only the best and they are very, very clear about it.

SkyRocket10

26th Feb 2017, 14:07

CTC will be loving it, a great marketing tool being "sole-supplier" to BA, although the majority will still end up on said Flexicrew contracts.

I believe from a certain manager that this is also likely to be a flexicrew like contract. It will give BA the ability to address seasonality issues.

wiggy

26th Feb 2017, 15:14

Bear in mind despite all the above AFAIK there's been no actual official announcement that the "old" FPP scheme has been killed, though like others I think it is/was only a matter of time in the current climate.

OTOH the company (like many) have a history of not announcing what could be construed as bad or negative news and might just want to let FPP quietly slide away.

Be interesting to see what if anything get's announced officially by CTC and/or BA in the near future.