Ryanair - 9

[heberzub]

On the news today

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-30/ryanair-earnings-gain-6-with-carrier-to-order-more-boeing-jets

Well, everyone is expanding now EZY, WZZ and RYR

[Hotel Tango]

Unable to open your link, so couldn't read it. Is it expansion or just fleet replacement? Some of their original frames are getting long in the tooth.

[Herod]

Extra aircraft. A 12% expansion

[heberzub]

Unable to open your link, so couldn't read it. Is it expansion or just fleet replacement? Some of their original frames are getting long in the tooth.

once again: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-30/ryanair-earnings-gain-6-with-carrier-to-order-more-boeing-jets

[Seljuk22]

Annual Financial Results
https://investor.ryanair.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/FY17-Results.pdf
https://investor.ryanair.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/FY17-Presentation.pdf

[hampshireandy]

So much for brexit being bad for Ryanair, good old MOL.

[1sky]

If there are children under 12 on a reservation, it is MANDATORY that one adult pays for a reserved seat (the system won't continue with the booking otherwise). Then up to 4 children aged 12 or under receive a free seat which the person making the booking can select. This method won't work if you're booking last minute and seats together aren't available. There is no excuse for families with young persons being split up.

NE

The new seat assignment system makes it very difficult for late bookings with kids to secure seats together (unlike the previous one where rows 31, 32 were the very last to be allocated).

In some cases people nowadays are paying for a service they don't get at all.

[racedo]

If there are children under 12 on a reservation, it is MANDATORY that one adult pays for a reserved seat (the system won't continue with the booking otherwise). Then up to 4 children aged 12 or under receive a free seat which the person making the booking can select. This method won't work if you're booking last minute and seats together aren't available. There is no excuse for families with young persons being split up.

NE

Friends frig the system by paying for the fare and putting two of their kids in as adults.

Mind you I did this when it was £20 for a baby and fares were £1.99 for an adult :E

[NorthEasterner]

What do you mean paying for a service they may not be getting?

If you're booking last minute (less than 4 days when most of the 'free' seats have been given away) then it is common sense that you are likely to be split up.

Rows 31 and 32 are often blocked off especially at the window seats, these are for PRM users. However I have seen at check-in that PRM users are sometimes allocated a total random seat.

FR have definitely changed the seating algorithm, however it doesn't always work favourably for PRM passengers. I refuse to show sympathy to those who complain about not being seated with their travelling companions (adults) because they did not purchase a reserved seat.

NE

[racedo]

FR have definitely changed the seating algorithm, however it doesn't always work favourably for PRM passengers. I refuse to show sympathy to those who complain about not being seated with their travelling companions (adults) because they did not purchase a reserved seat.

NE

I agree...

[techboy]

ACS Aviation are looking for instructors in Perth, Scotland if anyone is interested

[techboy]

ACS Aviation based in Scotland are looking to renew their FI course approval this year.
let me know if anyone is interested.

[Charlie Roy]

I refuse to show sympathy to those who complain about not being seated with their travelling companions (adults) because they did not purchase a reserved seat.

I disagree. Deliberately seating people on the same booking far away from each other unnecessarily pisses people off. The whole point of "always getting better" was to avoid unnecessarily pissing people off. This new policy of "pay or else we'll make sure you are not together" is disrespectful and mean.

I can also imagine other negative knock-on effects:


Boarding takes longer as people try to swap seats
People buy less drink on board (and possibly less food)
Customer care become inundated with a high volume of complaints relating to the new policy
People choose the competition where possible

[RAT 5]

I agree...

Oh dear. Low service has become the norm, for some. Not only is it the pilots who have allowed T's & C's to be driven down, pax are doing the same. My local carrier allocates seats together for those on the same booking - customer service. It then allows you to alter those seats at checkin time STD-30hrs. You can upgrade to a roomier seat if available; if you didn't opt for one at purchase time. It all seems so easy and correct, and except for the upgrade all for free. It's as it should be. It is not something 'special'. It is customer service for the people paying the huge profits of the freaking company.
Dogs do not change spots whatever the spin and new fangled PR speak.

[1sky]

What do you mean paying for a service they may not be getting?


Ryanair marketing says you have to reserve a seat so that you can sit together with your child. If you book at short notice, under the new system, you are very unlikely to be allocated a seat next to your child. In short, you are paying for a service you are not getting (and are at the mercy of other passengers and cabin crew to help once onboard).

[GLAEDI]

What I've never understood is that this is against CAA rules. A child under 12 should be seated no more than separated by an aisle or one row!! Can you imagine a child got injured for any reason the claim against FR!! As the CAA state this is primarily for evacuation reasons a parent will do anything to save their child even if that means another Manchester Airtours event where evacuation delays killed people!!

https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/On-board/Seating-allocation/

https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/On-board/Seating-allocation/

[racedo]

Ryanair marketing says you have to reserve a seat so that you can sit together with your child. If you book at short notice, under the new system, you are very unlikely to be allocated a seat next to your child. In short, you are paying for a service you are not getting (and are at the mercy of other passengers and cabin crew to help once onboard).


If you book late with a child undr 12 they will do everything they can to ensure you have a seat together, nothing has changed in that.

[racedo]

I agree...

Oh dear. Low service has become the norm, for some. Not only is it the pilots who have allowed T's & C's to be driven down, pax are doing the same. My local carrier allocates seats together for those on the same booking - customer service. It then allows you to alter those seats at checkin time STD-30hrs. You can upgrade to a roomier seat if available; if you didn't opt for one at purchase time. It all seems so easy and correct, and except for the upgrade all for free. It's as it should be. It is not something 'special'. It is customer service for the people paying the huge profits of the freaking company.
Dogs do not change spots whatever the spin and new fangled PR speak.

Good job customers and pilots are voting with their feet and not using Ryanair........... oh wait:ugh:

[davidjohnson6]

racedo had a point in that cabin crew and most pax are human. If an adult and child are seated far apart someone will usually be found (eventually) to swap seats

Where this system fails is that anyone intending to book may actually not book at all if there is no perceived guarantee of adjacent seating

[Jamie2k9]

Good job customers and pilots are voting with their feet and not using Ryanair........... oh wait:ugh:

Not sure about that ;)

[racedo]

racedo had a point in that cabin crew and most pax are human. If an adult and child are seated far apart someone will usually be found (eventually) to swap seats

Where this system fails is that anyone intending to book may actually not book at all if there is no perceived guarantee of adjacent seating

At booking time 1 day before an almost full flight you should be still able to get 2 seats together.................... if travelling with a child under 12.

Everybody will not have checked in.

It may happen occasionally where it is not possible and would fully expect you to be told this at booking.

You cannot book A child under 12 on a flight without booking a seat with adult beside them.......... therefore the idea that children seated miles away from a parent is difficult to fathom.

If multiple children it becomes more difficult then that is a different issue and would expect online help to assist.

But idea that a parent can book 4 seats with 3 under 12s, 24 hrs before a flight to Malaga in August and demand they ALL sit together is a tad unreasonable.

[Waldo1]

Just picked Mrs waldo up off a flight from Malaga, both ways her and her friend were separated as far from each other as possible. She said the whole flight was taken up with everyone chopping and changing seats to try and get sitting together...what a mess....I did dummy bookings after checkin and there were loads of seats together...

[paully]

We tried this lot last year and were so unimpressed Mrs P would rather not go on holiday than use Ryanair:* You get what you pay for but you never get what you haven`t paid for. Some of the alternatives are rather better :ok:

[dohouch]

Topic of FR seating is topic onBBC R4 Consumer Programe (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08rp339) BBC Radio 4 "You and yours" Are Ryan Air sitting family and friends rows apart if they don't pay to reserve seat today at 12.15 BST

[NorthEasterner]

Or if you want to be seated together, be sensible and pay for a reserved seat. Only £2 for a seat. Saves the hassle of complaining.

If you can afford a flight, surely you can afford to spend £6 on seats altogether for a group of 3...

What confuses me even more is the fact I knew someone flying BA Club World, their travelling companion was allocated a seat completely different to where he was sitting. BA wanted £55 just to book a reserved seat. So why is Ryanair getting the blame here :ugh:

Same applies for Emirates as well and a number of other flag carriers.

Not to forget EasyJet, Jet2 also follow the same practice as Ryanair.

[KingAirJimmy]

Or if you want to be seated together, be sensible and pay for a reserved seat. Only £2 for a seat. Saves the hassle of complaining.

If you can afford a flight, surely you can afford to spend £6 on seats altogether for a group of 3...

What confuses me even more is the fact I knew someone flying BA Club World, their travelling companion was allocated a seat completely different to where he was sitting. BA wanted £55 just to book a reserved seat. So why is Ryanair getting the blame here :ugh:

Same applies for Emirates as well and a number of other flag carriers.

Not to forget EasyJet, Jet2 also follow the same practice as Ryanair.

Very true!! The problem here is that Ryanair made it so affordable for every Dick, Tom and Harry to travel by air, and ofcourse its in peoples nature to complain.

Back in the day, I remember flying with an airliner was a luxury and people were paying big bucks for the privilege. After all, sometimes a bus ride can cost more then a flight to Spain with RYR. Get a flight with some other carrier,and after you add all the costs, you will see Ryanairs prices are only a fraction.

[NorthEasterner]

Exactly!! ^^

Love how I can get to Malaga, Mallorca, Madrid and Faro from Newcastle for pretty much under £20. If I want to be seated together with my travelling companions, I will pay extra for it.

I'd like to see BA get me there for the same price, not forgetting now we have to pay for bags, snacks/drinks and reserved seating as well on BA.

[MDS]

Or if you want to be seated together, be sensible and pay for a reserved seat.

If you are among one of the last to check-in or you need to be guaranteed to sit together, then I can appreciate this sentiment.

"If you don't pay, you get the luck of the draw." But there's luck no longer.

Ryanair are intentionally and maliciously ensuring that every reservation without paid seats is split apart as far as possible, regardless of how early you check in.

[Caravaggio]

I understand now why we were split up on BGY-CTA last week. Previous flight a week earlier sat together as has been usual for last 3 years. Lots of people changing seats even before take off.
Seems deliberately petty to run the seating algorithm to separate those on the same booking who haven't paid to sit together.
I thought MOL had stopped the deliberately pi**ing off customers game.

[Millionmileshigh]

What I've never understood is that this is against CAA rules. A child under 12 should be seated no more than separated by an aisle or one row!! Can you imagine a child got injured for any reason the claim against FR!! As the CAA state this is primarily for evacuation reasons a parent will do anything to save their child even if that means another Manchester Airtours event where evacuation delays killed people!!

https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/On-board/Seating-allocation/

https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/On-board/Seating-allocation/

Crew are aware of this and will make sure kids are with an adult once boarding is finished

[RAT 5]

If an adult and child are seated far apart someone will usually be found (eventually) to swap seats

OMG. Surely not. A mere human over=riding a fail-safe computer system??? Now her have I heard that argument before about an a/c crew?

Crew are aware of this and will make sure kids are with an adult once boarding is finished

Yes, but should that child be with that adult. Have they had a back-ground check to be allowed to be near an underage fellow human. Can't wait for the first 'touchy feely' claim to bring tears to a CEO. :hmm: (why are there 'no tongue in cheek' smileys)

[Sober Lark]

If you are among one of the last to check-in or you need to be guaranteed to sit together, then I can appreciate this sentiment.

"If you don't pay, you get the luck of the draw." But there's luck no longer.

Ryanair are intentionally and maliciously ensuring that every reservation without paid seats is split apart as far as possible, regardless of how early you check in.


The airline provides you with a seat to your destination. If you want to sit together you pay its simple. I want to sit with my partner on an Emirates flight to South Africa and they charge me.


What makes the British complain so much about everything? Radio 4s listeners branded them 'biased and unconventional'. Ryanair bad, Easyjet good, the whinging makes me sick.


If you want something to complain about, see what Brexit has in store for you with your future seating plans.

[boyo975]

Sober lark, Ryanair has done rather well from its British customers. It's largest base is still in the U.K. and how many passengers does it carry from the uk annually? Brexit very much concerns Ryanair, who incidentally isn't the biggest fan of the EU unless it suits them.

[RAT 5]

Last week there was a whinging customer. They'd booked a restaurant for 8 people and found themselves seated at 4 double tables spread all over the restaurant. The owner claimed they had not asked for a table for 8 people and had satisfied their request, numerically. He tried to calm them down by indicating that as they had booked 3 weeks earlier they were getting a bargain on what the walk-ins were paying for their dinner that evening. Somehow that didn't placate them and they ate elsewhere.

(now where is that tongue in cheek smiley?)

Why should you pay extra for what has been normal, and with some more sympathetic airlines still is, common sense customer service? If there was still only free seating, then fair enough, but it is not. It's not about £2 or £20 it's about a principle of not feeling you are being screwed as a customer who pays the salary of all the fat cats at the top.

Tongue out of cheek. Final word, as no doubt we shall agree to disagree.

[Sober Lark]

Rat, you don't go into your favourite cheap and cheerful chipper expecting a table for two do you?
;)

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Ever get the impression that Ryanair feel they are above the law?

Ryanair rejects UK court jurisdiction on passenger compensation (http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-rejects-uk-court-jurisdiction-on-passenger-compensation-1.2901632#.WFJOUsusFlE.facebook)

They won the case....

Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 airline, today (31 May) welcomed the Liverpool County Court ruling upholding Ryanair’s policy requiring EU261 cases involving “claims chasers” to be heard in the Irish Courts and dismissing an application by claims chasing firm Hughes Walker to have their cases heard in England in an effort to needlessly force more customers through the courts.

Welcome to Ryanair! (http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/news/170531-ryanair-welcomes-liverpool-court-ruling-against-claims-chasers/?market=en)

[Trav a la]

They won the case....



Welcome to Ryanair! (http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/news/170531-ryanair-welcomes-liverpool-court-ruling-against-claims-chasers/?market=en)

The judge also said he also acknowledged that he found it very difficult to resolve the legal issues and he gave the Claimant immediate permission to make a "leapfrog" appeal to the Court of Appeal.

Decisions at the COA level become binding upon the lower courts so it may just be temporary.

[EI-BUD]

Ryanair adding Air Europa transatlantic services to the booking engine, and discussion in the newspaper today that Alitalia may also feature....

...a stroke of genuis, Ryanair gains a reputation as a go to site for transatlantic trips, then it awaits the next big downturn and taps into a pipeline of discounted long haul aircraft, then has a competitive edge to launch its own services and has instant traction, successful routes chosen based on data from previous sales...

[inOban]

Sober Park: If I turned up for an early meal at my local chippy, when there are plenty of empty seats, I would expect to be seated with my partner, not sent to opposite corners of the room and told that if I had wanted to sit next to her I should have booked ahead and paid a premium.

[Waldo1]

If I book multiple seats on a train, the theatre, the cinema, a concert etc etc...they're all grouped together. This whole " you need to pay" is a load of ballz

[1sky]

What I've never understood is that this is against CAA rules. A child under 12 should be seated no more than separated by an aisle or one row!! Can you imagine a child got injured for any reason the claim against FR!! A

Does this CAA rule actually apply to Ryanair, which operates under IAA rules. While Ryanair seats children with their parents whenever possible, I am not sure it is because of CAA rules.

At booking time 1 day before an almost full flight you should be still able to get 2 seats together.................... if travelling with a child under 12.

Everybody will not have checked in.


Try a dummy booking for any flight tomorrow. Even with 15 empty seats, these are often scattered all over the aircraft as single seats. That is the new algorithm.
On this flight, there are 12 empty seats all over the place (sorry, I cannot get them all on one screen):
https://picload.org/image/rioiolra/screenshot2017-05-31at23.51.35.png

You cannot book A child under 12 on a flight without booking a seat with adult beside them...........


Yes, just try. You can book a flight with a child under 12 and be forced to book a seat very far apart. It is then left to the cabin crew to sort it out, but you are not getting the seat you are paying to get assigned.

What confuses me even more is the fact I knew someone flying BA Club World, their travelling companion was allocated a seat completely different to where he was sitting.

You can still select any available seat when online checkin open.

Same applies for Emirates as well and a number of other flag carriers.


Emirates allows you to select a seat at checkin and does not purposely seat you far away from travelling companions.

Not to forget EasyJet, Jet2 also follow the same practice as Ryanair.


EasyJet and Jet2 seats people together when reasonable and possible (just like the old Ryanair algorithm).

The real innovation with the new Ryanair system is that it will purposely seat you far apart even when fully normal seats are available. If you are assigned 11B, it may seat your travelling companion in 26B even if 11A, 11C, 11D, 11E and 11F are all available.

[Sober Lark]

In the event of an emergency, the person (stranger) seated beside the child will have to take responsibility for the child's safety.

In addition there are Child protection issues - laws don't allow an unvetted stranger access to children in this way. Then you'd have to ask what type of parent would prefer not to pay a small charge to have their children seated next to them under their watchful eye.

[GLAEDI]

In the event of an emergency, the person (stranger) seated beside the child will have to take responsibility for the child's safety.

In addition there are Child protection issues - laws don't allow an unvetted stranger access to children in this way. Then you'd have to ask what type of parent would prefer not to pay a small charge to have their children seated next to them under their watchful eye.

Sorry WHAT, you have to pay a premium so that your child isn't seated next to a convicted sex offender!! Just so Ryanair can make a bit more money!! Why should families be split it's better for all of your passengers they're seated together! Why, as can happen "hit a bit of turbulence" should you as a stranger look after a child that is deeply upset because their parent is 10 rows away! Also seriously I don't want a 4 year old sat next to me that's not my own, imagine they got travel sick 😷 . Also human beings are indeed selfish (look at the studies) if it was your life or the child's not everyone will save the child! Also can't be fun all the seat changes now where is my cabin bag now, is it at my old seat or at my new one.

FR should be complying with CAA rules if operating in the U.K. That's the reason we don't have PIA flights that have bits falling off due to there poor maintenance operating to the UK they have to use the newer maintained aircraft with the Boeing maintenance contracts.

I can't believe anyone is defending FR on this subject. Though BA have started flying with no one seated in the Exit row as that's a premium seat. In my day as a dispatcher these seats needed to be filled to make sure the doors are opened quickly this included crew moving people on board if check-in failed to place someone there. Seemly making money now out weighs peoples lives. As I've said if a FR flight has a Manchester event and a child not seated with their family dies or is injured all the profit FR makes out of its £2 charge will be gone in compensation they'll be forced to pay even in an Irish Court. I know some bean counter has already done that bit of maths. Yes if you want to charge for groups to be seated together then 18 & over. Though having had to deal with rowdy or criminal behaviour associated with Stag & Hen parties I can't imagine the pain of having to be seated next to them as they spread their crap all over the plane rather than being seated in one area together.

[Sober Lark]

I flew J Class on SQ SIN - PER and one of my children was separated and seated next to a stranger. He didn't want to move but when I asked him politely if he would take responsibility for my child's safety in the event of an emergency he saw the light and changed seats much to my appreciation.

[MDS]

The airline provides you with a seat to your destination. If you want to sit together you pay its simple. I want to sit with my partner on an Emirates flight to South Africa and they charge me.


What makes the British complain so much about everything? Radio 4s listeners branded them 'biased and unconventional'. Ryanair bad, Easyjet good, the whinging makes me sick.


If you want something to complain about, see what Brexit has in store for you with your future seating plans.

Not sure what nationality has to do with this. I'm not even British. :ugh:

Other airlines will always seat passengers together (albeit the location is not their choice) pending availability. Ryanair opt to purposely split passengers on a single reservation across the aircraft.

ie: 13A/13B and 21E/21F are the last seats available. If two passengers on the same reservation book together, logic (and FR's old system) dictates one booking gets row 13, and the other 21. However under the new system it would sit one of each in row 13 and one of each in row 21, splitting apart the booking across the aircraft.

So instead, now PAX will play musical chairs before the flight and during; thereby making the bar service absolute hell from a crew perspective. PAX changing seats, blocking aisles, luggage split across the aircraft after landing thereby delaying disembarking, etc.

I fly Ryanair dozens of times a year and it's my go-to airline over the likes of easyJet, however first-time users of Ryanair aren't likely to be converted if this is their first experience.

[Millionmileshigh]

Maybe I should have been clearer. The crew will make sure the kid is with an adult that they're travelling with. I.e. Not just a random stranger.

[caiman27]

If you look at the Ryanair website under the Family Extra page, it says this:

"Free seats for kids
Get free reserved seats for up to 4 kids aged between 2 and 12 with every adult seat booked. As part of our Always Getting Better programme it's now mandatory for adults to have a reserved seat when travelling with kids, this means you don't need to worry about being separated on board."

That's as clear as it could be.

[Sober Lark]

Maybe I should have been clearer. The crew will make sure the kid is with an adult that they're travelling with. I.e. Not just a random stranger.

Understood

MDS Not sure what nationality has to do with this. I'm not even British It is a BBC Radio 4 that most days bashes either Ryanair or M&S. But you are correct I shouldn't stereotype and I apologise.

[racedo]

The judge also said he also acknowledged that he found it very difficult to resolve the legal issues and he gave the Claimant immediate permission to make a "leapfrog" appeal to the Court of Appeal.

Decisions at the COA level become binding upon the lower courts so it may just be temporary.

Court of Appeal is not final as further appeals to Supreme Court and ECJ are also possible.

Once UK does Brexit will they still keep EU261 ?

[RAT 5]

As part of our Always Getting Better programme it's now mandatory for adults to have a reserved seat when travelling with kids, this means you don't need to worry about being separated on board."

Works in the flight deck as well. (Tongue in cheek and can be moved to Friday Jokes. It's time for some light heartedness)

[Trav a la]

Court of Appeal is not final as further appeals to Supreme Court and ECJ are also possible.

Agreed.

Once UK does Brexit will they still keep EU261 ?

I believe all EU regs will be adopted until they are looked at some time in the future. The more controversial regs will be looked at first, as I understand it.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 airline, today (1 June) announced that customers who purchase an allocated seat for their flight can now check-in up to 60 days in advance, the latest improvement delivered under Year 4 of its “Always Getting Better” programme. - See more at: Welcome to Ryanair! (http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/news/170601-60-day-check-in-introduced-for-purchased-seats/?market=en#sthash.WF0BWZoW.dpuf)

I don't see the point myself...

[Charlie Roy]

Customers who don’t wish to purchase an allocated seat can check-in between 4 days and 2 hours before their flight and will be randomly allocated a seat free of charge.Liar Liar! There is absolutely nothing random about it!
There's a whole logic of seating people in a specific order (and apart from each other if it involves multiple people on the same booking).

[01475]

I presume they trialled this and it was worth it, but I'm surprised it's not all going to make it take much longer to board planes.

[RAT 5]

Will RYR now have a new 'in-house' Delay Code for passenger playing musical chairs during bordering?

[EGAC is Better]

Or if you want to be seated together, be sensible and pay for a reserved seat. Only £2 for a seat. Saves the hassle of complaining.

This is not the case. Seats cost "From £2". I booked a late October to Girona this week, seat map was totally empty at time of booking. There were no £2 seats, they all started at £4. I didn't book any but I probably will later.

That cost increases from £4 to £6 for the same seat after purchasing the flight and retrospectively attempting to buy the same seat. (2 mins after completing the booking!)

I refused to fly Ryanair for 10 years after a shocking customer service experience. It seemed things had improved recently so I decided to give them another chance.

Now the misinformation and contempt for passengers appears to be returning. Don't get me wrong, Im not complaining about prices, my issue is the policy of deliberately misleading and forcing people to pay to sit together.

Someone more knowledgable than me can answer this, is this constant seat swapping a safety issue? Can the aircraft become unbalanced in an event that people start vacating their seats for an empty one beside travel groups? Obviously this can be dealt with when on the ground (they can refuse to depart if pax dont take their allocated seats), but once in the air it becomes a lot more difficult.

[jdcg]

I couldn't agree with you more. I thought FR had become a more straightforward airline and have been enjoying travelling with them. If you wanted extras you were able to buy them. But this new seat policy is so manipulative and disingenuous, you just end up trying to find reasons not to fly with them. Not that Wizz are better (they even charge extra for a window seat), but some airlines are. I understand charging extra for a seat with more legroom. Or why not just make it a compulsory £2 charge for selecting your seat - like an admin fee? All this craftiness and scheming just creates so much ill will

[ayroplain]

There were no £2 seats, they all started at £4.
Surprised to hear that. I always purchase a seat at the time of booking and over the past, at least, 50 bookings (including one made yesterday) have not paid more than €2 per seat. I always buy the cheapest as I'm not bothered what area of the aircraft I sit in.

[RAT 5]

What would have been interesting, entertaining and scary all at once, was to be a 'fly on the wall' at the committee meeting that spent hours dreaming up these schemes. Supposed hi-powered execs, who should have better things to do, sitting around a table brain storming about such irritating trivia and then the head honcho coming to a decision and sticking a pin in the worse one.
What rise in profit was this supposed to generate? What loss in profit has it caused? Probably zero in both cases.

[EGAC is Better]

Surprised to hear that. I always purchase a seat at the time of booking and over the past, at least, 50 bookings (including one made yesterday) have not paid more than €2 per seat. I always buy the cheapest as I'm not bothered what area of the aircraft I sit in.

I too was surprised, ayroplain. I've even gone back to try and find (what is now) a £4 seat. All seats are still available and all middle seats from overwing exit row to the rear are £4.

As jdcg rightly says, it is all very disingenuous. No doubt, legally they only have to offer a single £2 seat anywhere on the network to be covered with the 'from £2' statement.

[1sky]

They are definitely back to the trying to scam passengers.

Even when not a single £2 seat is available, the seat booking page still shows "Book your seat from £2".

[RAT 5]

"Book your seat from £2".

Please don't tell me they are using the 'from' scam? On January 2 at 06.30 there was 1 seat for £2; after that you are on your own and the earlier you reserve the cheaper it is.

[01475]

I tried to book a flight where the cheapest seats were £6.

Ditching that I went to add a bag, and on doing so I realised that adding suitcases on their own cost more than "leisure plus"...

I think they are pathologically incapable of being straightforward to deal with, in the same way as BA are pathologically incapable of going a certain number of bank holiday weekends without people camping in Heathrow...

[davidjohnson6]

It is very much in Ryanair's interest for the extra price differential to be cheaper than adding one or two additions manually. Ryanair know that for each 'added value' package, people usually care about just one or two items - the rest are there to bulk up and persuade customers they are getting a bargain once u compare the cost of how much the full set of extras would be if added in manually

If customers know that it's cheaper to add a suitcase the day before they fly, then there is no point buying a 'value' package at the time of initial booking several months before the flight. By making the package cheaper, custoners are scared into buying an 'additional package' when making the original booking but then find on flight date the value package is nor really needed and money was wasted.

Unless a consumer rebellion starts, this is a tactic based around FUD - fear, uncertainty and doubt to boost the ancillaries amount customers spend per booking

[skyhawk1]

Flew in Apr 2ad and 1 ch. booked 3 seats outbound for £2 each and £4 for return. Bargain in my eyes and lots cheaper than TUI and TCook. Always book seats to be sure we are together. For those that don't and take a chance do not cry if you are split up.

[RAT 5]

Bargain in my eyes and lots cheaper than TUI and TCook.

Pax are allowing themselves to be treated like muppets. It is only 17 years ago that (I think it was) BMI started charging for baggage. Easyjet & others said they would watch with interest. They saw no reduction in pax numbers so climbed aboard the add-ons train very quickly and turned it into an art form. From that RYR redefined customer service is that nothing is for free. Ez did there same and now it has fed through to national carriers. Pax are now brain washed that this is the norm. There is a generation or 2 that have never known anything else. Now pax are punch drunk into believing that it is necessary to pay to reserve a block of seats so that all pax on the same booking ref can sit together. What they should be asking is why are all pax on a single booking ref not being put together as the norm. Pax are allowing the tail to wag the dog and rolling over to ask for more of this c#$p. To suggest that one airline charging only £2 is OK because others charge £4 is mind boggling crassness. There should be no charge for a seat unless it is in some form of upgrade. An economy seat is an economy seat. Sitting next to your colleague traveller on the same booking ref should be the standard norm. Point!.

Like to old joke about an airline CEO walking into a pub. The tempting advert outside had said Guinness, the cheapest in town; only 50p a pint." The CEO orders one at the bar. The barman asked, "will you be wanting a glass with that? And are you going to sit down? Will that be on a cheap bar stool or a premium lounge chair? Have you pre-reserved one?" etc. etc. The final price for a pint of guinness in a chair rises from 50p to £5.

[AerRyan]

On the flip side, airfares have fallen massively from those days. I recently flew to Newcastle and back for the lovely sum of €16. No baggage, no reserved seats. Even my flights to the canaries this summer, were very reasonable, even with check in baggage. Could I have gotten anything remotely close to this 25 years ago? No.

Reliability has also increased massively, it's rare that I'd ever get a flight delay amounting to more than an hour.

Route choice and route frequency is the biggest winner here though, the cheap lead in fares have caused millions of more passengers to fly, meaning alot more routes and alot more choice on these routes. Charge everyone flying between the UK and ROI £100 each way lead in fares in exchange for a full service experience and see how many passengers avail of this! I can tell ya we wouldn't have the same choice of routes and frequencies we have today!

[skyhawk1]

Rat 5. I think you miss my point. I am not paying extra for my seat I am paying to ensure my family are sat together. In years gone by when seats were allocated at check in those at the back got what was left often split up. This resulted in hassle for everyone and many pax seat changed when boarding. Prices are now low and then you then choose your add ons for your personal preference.
Aer Arran. Quite agree.

[ayroplain]

Pax are allowing themselves to be treated like muppets.... RYR redefined customer service is that nothing is for free. .... Pax are now brain washed that this is the norm. There is a generation or 2 that have never known anything else.
This word "free" keeps popping up. Hard to believe that there are people on here who actually believe that the likes of BA et al were providing all those extra services, handling baggage and dishing out food onboard for "free" (out of the goodness of their hearts). There is more than a generation or 2 still around that knows that airfares were miles out of their range because of the sky-high prices. £400 return from LHR to DUB being one example. Only for the rich and famous..and politicians.

Nowadays, in stark contrast, we are paying buttons for the basic fare and, if we prefer we can leave it that, or buy some addons. The choices are there. I'd much rather have it that way.

[RAT 5]

It is wonderful that there are choices and the cartels have been broken. Excellent. My point is that for a decade the LoCo's have been making handsome huge profits as they were. They are increasing those profits with their basic model. It does not seem necessary, other than greed, to add on yet another pay for item that IMHO should be a basic custom service. There is no cost to the provider for seating pax together on a single booking. It is not a cost saving measure only an attempt to generate even more profit. My only thought is it might be one add on too far. But I guess, as MOL has said many times, if the queue is still outside the door why change anything.
We shall agree to disagree.

[Heathrow Harry]

"Huge" profits - I don't think so.... especially when you look at the scale of investment

MOL has always said his ultimate aim is to offer seats for free and make the profit on the extras

[Charlie Roy]

Travelled BRU-DUB and DUB-BRU this weekend and witnessed first hand the effects of deliberately separating passengers.

BRU-DUB


Boarding the back door of the aircraft, girl in front of me: "Oh I need to show my boarding pass again? My boyfriend has it, he's boarding the front" RESULT: Allowed board without a boarding pass
Lots of seat swapping
Stag party guy sitting next to me didn't buy a drink: no mates to drink with / no mates to encourage him
I did not purchase a drink, my travel partner was not there to share a drink
Some confusion of people needing money from a partner further back in the plane in order to buy something (how many just didn't bother?)
Guy behind me inappropriately chatting up a girl whose boyfriend was seated up front

DUB-BRU


Guy next to me asked me to help him with his case, he had injured his arm during the weekend, and his boyfriend was at the other end of the aircraft so not able to help directly
Lots of seat swapping
No-one in my row bought a drink
Disembarking at BRU people hesitating before getting into the bus, waiting for partners... and then needing to be ushered in (wasting time), so that the bus could go and come back
In the bus people blocking the door waiting to see their partner appear
Where the bus sets people off, people hanging around the entrance (partially blocking it) waiting for partners



In general, lots of small hindrances, as well as the big pissing people off by separating them to begin with.

[True Blue]

So to March 17, Ryanair made a profit of 1,316m Euro. How much is enough, or is there never enough now with big companies? If this seating policy is a deliberate policy, what does it say about the ethics of Ryanair? Sadly, I am starting to think that too many large companies have lost sight of decency.

[LGS6753]

What is 1.316bn Euros as a percentage of capital employed? Or as a return on revenue? Just because it looks like a big number it's not necessarily excessive.
After all, to some of us that's almost a whole afternoon's pay....

[Trav a la]

In reply to Charlie Roy's post (3818)

Another hinderance that you did not mention, maybe because it's not a problem to you, is the 90 bag rule, unique to RA I believe.

On my last trip, while at the gate, I was told that I could not take my cabin bag on board. When I said it contained expensive camera equipment and would they guarantee it's security, a bit of an argument followed. Holding up the rest of the queue in the process.

In the end I had to remove all my camera equipment and sit with it all on my lap. Great, what a pain! and each item was quite heavy and solid so it would have been dangerous had we hit severe turbulence. You really don't want stuff like that flying around the cabin like cruise missiles.

When I book flights for myself and Mrs T-A-L I have both our boarding cards on the app on my phone, so if we have to board front and rear there is a problem, well kind of, they sometimes call each other to confirm or just allow her to board without a boarding card of her own. Is there supposed to be a procedure for this circumstance?

When you add all these inconveniences together RA seem very unfriendly, no matter what they say.

Oh, and of course RA are the only airline that I know who charge an EU261 levy on every passenger for every sector flown.

[AerRyan]

It is part of their Terms and Conditions that they can put your carry on in the hold, what's the problem? If you really needed it to be carried on board, buy priority, it's pretty clear.

[TOM100]

FR have got this wrong big time in my opinion from customer service, PR and operational aspects. Undoes a lot of Kenny's AGB stuff in a stroke. I know fares cheap etc etc but so is Mc Donald's but I get to sit with people I am supposed to be sharing the experience with ! Wide bearth from FR for me again.......

[RAT 5]

Another hinderance that you did not mention, maybe because it's not a problem to you, is the 90 bag rule,

A few years ago RYR trumpeted its partnership with Samsonite who had produced a RYR size cabin bag. RYR have been pushing cabin bags only for years and this venture, they said, guaranteed you could take it in the cabin. It is smaller than the norm, of course. Then they discovered the lockers could not accommodate enough of their specially designed cabin bags and their guarantee dissolved. Now this max numbers rule. Luckily they have not introduced a RYR designed bag that can fit 'under the seat' for free and then charge for the larger size that requires the overhead lockers. Oh dear; have I given them ideas. Wiz Air are doing something like this, and are not the major share holders of RYR & WA the same?

[FRatSTN]

It disgusts me to even post on the latest change in which Ryanair allocates its seats at check-in.

They'll argue the policy has not changed... which technically it hasn't but it's clear from their seat maps and the sudden emergence of people being allocated rows apart that some kind of system internally has changed the way in which seats are being allocated. Now all the middle seats are allocated first, rather than allocating from the center outwards. The result... families being split up unnecessarily unless they pay for seats!

With experience in ground operations I have never known even Ryanair to do anything so indecent and shambolic as this!

They have given no regard it would seem to the fact that...
- Passengers will just swap seats under their own account, causing chaos and unnecessary disruption during boarding
- Groups that will typically have a lead traveler maybe carrying the travel docs/boarding passes of all those in the group (meaning some pax may not have their boarding pass to hand when embarking the aircraft... possibly through the opposite door)
- The separation of passengers is likely going to attribute to a reduction of in-flight sales, where groups of friends or family sat together are more likely to make more substantial purchases (again only the "lead passenger" may possess any method of payment)
- Passengers will be clogging aircraft cabin aisles/airside ramp areas on arrival whilst waiting for their travel group

And a big pitfall also is that even if you were willing to pay to reserve seats after being separated at check-in, there's barely any adjacent seats left to choose as all the middle seats have been allocated!!

Never mind also if god forbid there were an emergency evacuation... 100+ passengers I'm sure trying to reunite with loved ones I imagine would work wonders for a max. evacuation time of 90 secs.

Would not be surprised if this becomes something that requires something like CAA intervention if nothing else. I think it should become a requirement for airlines to allocate groups together whenever possible, only separating in exceptional circumstances.

Regardless of their solid business strategy, financial performance, commendable improvements in recent years and as an airline I personally admire, they have made a big error or judgement and have gone way too far this time

I am totally and utterly disgusted by the whole thing... This will not last I guarantee, things will get too nasty I'm sure in one way or another for the airline to contend with!

Anyway, rant over! I'm sure I won't be the only one complaining though...

[EGAC is Better]

Put simply, I believe this will become a security and/or a safety issue. Hopefully it doesn't take the occurrence of a serious incident before this ridiculous policy is reversed.

If now policy is that you must buy a seat to sit together, it must be spelt out clearly at time of purchase. That means eg. 'If you do not select seats, your party will be separated at check in' not 'sit next to X from £2'.

It is not 'normal' practice to deliberately split bookings so how can Joe public be expected to know they will be split up if they aren't explictly told?

It is deliberate misinformation, it is disingenious and seems to signal a return to the 'old' Ryanair who didn't get a single penny of my money for almost 8 years. AGB must be out of favour with management, perhaps they are worried their treatment of passengers is becoming too humane.

[RAT 5]

I've discussed this topic with various friends from various countries. They are not users of RYR, but they considered it as purely a reflection on company attitude towards customer service. All were in total opposition; not for the cost but for the principle. There are basic boundaries of customer service and they all thought this crossed them.
And that is where I think we should be looking. This seems nothing more than a culture that spends a great deal of effort to design strategies that says "where can we squeeze the customers to generate more profit." This is the end of a very thin wedge. What next? The old joke about €1 for the toilet seems not so very far fetched anymore.
If I thought it might be fun, but too dangerous in giving them ideas, we could have a humorous discussion about what is left for RYR to charge their customers. I am nervous after Wizz-Air started charging for hand baggage.
I really don't give a fig about the lower total price; it is a matter of principle. It makes me feel I am being treated with contempt, and that's not acceptable.
There is a discussion about the new culture at BA. Profit is taking priority over customer service. We have been on a slippery slope for 17 years and look how far we have slid. There are certain routes where train, car ferry over night, or day, or just a couple of hours longer by car is so much more pleasurable than airlines now. OK, there are many short-haul routes where air travel is the only option, but it is no fun or relaxing anymore. It's too much like having an operation for haemorrhoids.
Good luck to you all, but there is an old expression that "I expect to be kissed before I'm screwed."

[01475]

I presume that as soon as the seatbelt lights go off 30% of the aircraft will stand up and move around. How are they going to get through the plane to sell things? The only obvious way will be to use the seatbelt lights to trap people in their seats (and also stop them going to the toilet).

I can't wait to see how this turns out...

[ESCNI]

Personally, I think Ryanair have got this policy arse about face as...

I would actually be willing to pay for other people to entertain my children for the whole flight.

;)

[EGAC is Better]

Totally agree @ RAT 5. This is a matter of principle for me too.

[luchtzak]

A Ryanair passenger who was checked in but didn’t print his boarding pass was denied boarding at gate A32 at Brussels Airport and was forced to pay 50€ to Ryanair (via the Aviapartner gate agent). The passenger started ranting, shouting and … filming

[EI-A330-300]

Some new in flight entertainment :p

Couple romp on Manchester to Ibiza Ryanair flight | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4585716/Couple-sex-Manchester-Ibiza-Ryanair-flight.html?ito=social-facebook)

[NorthEasterner]

A Ryanair passenger who was checked in but didn’t print his boarding pass was denied boarding at gate A32 at Brussels Airport and was forced to pay 50€ to Ryanair (via the Aviapartner gate agent). The passenger started ranting, shouting and … filming


How did this passenger make it airside without a boarding pass?

He says in the video he just came off a connecting flight, I wasn't aware Ryanair had connections at BRU, only at FCO. Still, you need a valid boarding pass to enter the airside departure lounge...

[Alsacienne]

I saw this video. That young lady deserves a medal and promotion. She kept her cool in the most trying of circumstances, and never once gave him the verbal repartee he was so desperate to enter into. WELL DONE MADAME.

As for the 'passenger' ... I think this sort of individual would merit being on the 'no-fly' list on grounds of endangering the blood pressure of anyone he comes into contact with. Disgraceful behaviour (verbal and the act of filming) from that individual. He may be loquacious, but has not read and understood that he signed that he understood and would abide by the Ryanair T&C when buying his ticket ... that he would have to print out his boarding pass to allow him to board and use his paid-for ticket, and that if he did not and the boarding pass had to be printed out at the airport, it would cost him a certain disclosed sum of money.

Should have gone to his local branch of Specsavers ....

What an unpleasant individual and an embarrassment to all other 'passengers'.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Ryanair is in talks with Boeing about placing an order for its proposed new 737 MAX 10 airliner, two people familiar with the matter have said.

Boeing is expected to launch what would become the largest version of its 737 MAX medium-haul family, designed to challenge the popular Airbus A321 flown by Ryanair rivals, at the opening of the Paris air show next week.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0614/882599-ryanair-boeing-planes/

[southside bobby]

B737 MAX9 has departed STN this afternoon on it`s way to the Paris Air Show after visiting the RYR hangar during the last two days...

[NorthEasterner]

Does Ryanair base any of its newer aircraft at TFS or ACE (aircraft from EI-FOC onwards with sky interior)? Just as I've noticed Newcastle has never had a newer aircraft on the TFS and ACE routes, but all other routes to/from NCL have had the Sky Interior aircraft at some point.

[fivejuliet]

Does Ryanair base any of its newer aircraft at TFS or ACE (aircraft from EI-FOC onwards with sky interior)? Just as I've noticed Newcastle has never had a newer aircraft on the TFS and ACE routes, but all other routes to/from NCL have had the Sky Interior aircraft at some point.

Yes but the basing of sky interior is pretty random so it's hard to tell if it will appear or not

[Stevek]

EI-DAS has new seats fitted.

[j636]

Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 airline, today (20 Jun) announced the purchase of 10 more Boeing 737 Max 200 “Gamechanger” aircraft, 5 of which will deliver in the first half of 2019, with the second 5 delivering in the first half of 2020. This new order, which is valued at more than $1.1 billion at current list prices, will, together with the existing firm order for 100 Max 200s (and 100 options), allow Ryanair to grow its traffic to 200m customers p.a. by 2024.

Ryanair Buys Another 10 Boeing 737 MAX 200s, Bringing Firm Orders To 110 (With 100 Options Outstanding) | Ryanair's Corporate Website (http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-buys-another-10-boeing-737-max-200s-bringing-firm-orders-to-110-with-100-options-outstanding/)

[Trav a la]

Last nights BBC consumer program, Watchdog, looked into Ryanair’s seating policy after receiving many complaints.

They booked 4 seats on 4 different flight, to test the randomness of seat allocation when not paying to choose a seat.

On all 4 flights the 4 pax were seated separately and all in the middle row only. They then asked a statistician to work out the odds of that happening randomly and it was 1 in 543million.

They then had an interview with Kenny Jacobs, RA head of marketing, who said ‘we do not separate people’ and that the policy had not changed since 2014. He went on to say ‘it’s not about making more money’ also ‘if you don’t like it you can pay 2 euros’

When asked why pax seated separately, but with empty seats next to them, could not be seated together he said ‘then whats the point in having reserved seating’.

Interestingly, a travel agent reckons that the date the changes were implemented was 15 May.

Even when faced with all the evidence and a high number of complaints he still insisted that unpaid seating was random.

[pamann]

I'm on the fence on this one.

Clearly they have changed their policy. In the past I have booked seats together on some flights, others I've not bothered and still got seats together checking in online when it opens.

To be fair if you get 12B and 31E you've got a seat, that's what you paid for, a seat and that's exactly what it is. If you pay extra to pre book then you also get what you paid for. You can't really grumble. What is clearly wrong is that they aren't being honest, they clearly have tweaked the system to generate more revenue. If I do use them in future I will now always pre book. So you could say they've achieved their goal by doing this.

However if I'm paying £50 all in to jet from one side of Europe to the other I can't really moan about that either.

[bcn_boy]

What is it with Ryanair's pay to sit together? Latest flight outbound I was five rows from my partner, gent next to me was complaining his wife was in the back row. Inbound I was 11 rows from my partner, lady next to me was separated from her husband by three rows yet they had paid to sit together. Ryanair, this is the last time we travel with you.

[landsberger64]

It appears they haven't changed their policy, but they have changed the algorithm. Ryanair have been at pains to point out they "haven't changed their [seating] policy", but have so far not commented on the latter

Interesting article here - some poor sap spent some time "hacking" their old algorithm which presumably needs to be reworked.

Low Cost Flights Blog » How to Get a Free Seat on Ryanair (http://flights-blog.lowcostroutes.com/2014/04/how-to-get-a-free-seat-on-ryanair/#comment-223733)

[lfc84]

I dont know what the fuss is about when it comes to adults sitting together. Sorry, I just don't get it. It's not that important to me. However I acknowledge it may be of importance to others. In terms of the overall experience with Ryanair this is very low in my list of concerns and issues when it comes to using them.

[landsberger64]

I dont know what the fuss is about when it comes to adults sitting together. Sorry, I just don't get it. It's not that important to me. However I acknowledge it may be of importance to others. In terms of the overall experience with Ryanair this is very low in my list of concerns and issues when it comes to using them.

It's not something that bothers me personally, but runs counter to just about every other airlines' policy. One can only assume it's being done to boost (cough) "ancillary revenues" - if it wasn't Ryanair, I might have given them the benefit of the doubt.

[RAT 5]

As has been discussed previously, and it may not aggravate everyone, it is a matter of principle. Why does a company that is supposedly in the business of generating happy customers, as it is they who pay their wages, go to such lengths to irritate the heck out of them? €2 has nothing to do with it. Would those in favour still agree if it was €20? It's a principle of how you treat the people who pay your wages.
And we'll all agree to disagree. It might be affordable by some who do not care; it may not bother some a jot and therefore don't care, but I find it difficult to defend.

[Hotel Tango]

Not an RYR flyer however, arguably, if you get on a bus or a train there's no guarantee you will sit together. If you choose to fly for peanuts on a bus with wings why should it be any different?

[inOban]

If you buy an two advance tickets for a train, which will include seat reservations, I'm sure that, if possible, you will be offered adjacent seats. By

[DaveReidUK]

Not an RYR flyer however, arguably, if you get on a bus or a train there's no guarantee you will sit together. If you choose to fly for peanuts on a bus with wings why should it be any different?

Yes, but the bus and train companies don't usually make a separate charge for choosing a seat, nor go out of their way to ensure that those not forking out the seat fee are never* going to get adjacent seats.

I watched last night's interview with Kenny Jacobs, where he was disingenuous to say the least.

*According to the chap who reverse-engineered Ryanair's previous seating algorithm, the new version allocates every middle seat (in the free seating rows) first, then when all of those are allocated it's the aisle seats and finally the window seats.

That matches exactly Watchdog's findings (Jacobs' response that a sample of 4 flights x 4 people wasn't representative is laughable) and almost guarantees that two or more people travelling together will never get adjacent seats without paying.

[STN Ramp Rat]

I have travelled a number of times on Ryanair recently. On one occasion it was from Stansted to Toulouse and back, uncharacteristically the aircraft was sold less than 100 each way. I boarded last as I could not be bothered queuing, amusingly all the middle seats were taken and all the window and aisle seats were empty thus clearly demonstrating that the algorithm has changed and that not many people were prepared to pay for a seat. As soon as the crew called “boarding complete” everyone jumped up and re seated themselves with their travelling companions again, the crew made no attempt to stop this. The return flight was the same.

All my other recent trips have been as a single traveller on full flights I have found that checking in late on the App has always given me a window or aisle seat, I presume that all the middle seats have been allocated by this point.

I don’t see any change to the Ryanair policy unless the extra revenue from the sales of seats is offset by the loss of on board food and beverage sales caused by the stag and hen parties being separated all over the aircraft and thus not drinking them dry. Personally I suspect that most people will know that they are likely to be split up and will buy seats to ensure that they are not and in the end Ryanair will win.

[racedo]

, lady next to me was separated from her husband by three rows yet they had paid to sit together. .

That is likely what he told her because when you pay to sit together you booking your seats at same time.......................... unless they last to check in

[RAT 5]

Guy phones up a restaurant and books for 8 people. They arrive and are seated at 4 separate double tables. Guess their reaction. Owner says you should have asked for a 'table for 8', at €2 per person supplement. Would you go there again? Trouble is it might be the only cafe in town, but I'm sure, then, you'd have words with the owner.

[Sober Lark]

RAT 5, your brains algorithm keeps repeating that same story here.

[jdcg]

I attempted to chat online to FR customer services. When I got through I formally complained about the new policy. They refused to respond or make any comment!!!
My wife is just flying to Berlin with her godson on Sunday. I checked them in yesterday and, sure enough, they are booked onto middle seats in Row 6 and Row 32! Honestly, it's just pernicious.

[DaveReidUK]

I attempted to chat online to FR customer services. When I got through I formally complained about the new policy. They refused to respond or make any comment!!!

Well when the head of marketing won't admit what they are doing, it's a bit unfair to expect a CSR to take responsibility.

[Hotel Tango]

For God's sake people, if you don't like their policy, don't fly with them! I have never been a fan of RYR's product from Day 1 and I have never been tempted to fly with them, not once.

[AerRyan]

Big difference between a restaurant and travel. 8 people book a bus, and they can't sit together is more a realistic example. Bending the truth is great isn't it?

[paully]

HT you are so right..Though I did once fly with them and got precisely what I paid for :}..Like you never been tempted since, There are better ways to travel

[jdcg]

I've actually been quite happy to fly FR in recent times, until this change on seating. They often fly to obscure places that I want to travel to but when they deliberately screw you over you think why bother?

[Mr A Tis]

If you pay to reserve seating & check in after random seating is allowed, how do you sit together when all the middle seats have been allocated?

[DaveReidUK]

If you pay to reserve seating & check in after random seating is allowed, how do you sit together when all the middle seats have been allocated?

If you are prepared to pay for choosing a seat, you can check in up to 60 days before departure.

If you leave choosing your seat until free check-in opens 4 days before departure, you only have yourself to blame. :O

[MDS]

Big difference between a restaurant and travel. 8 people book a bus, and they can't sit together is more a realistic example. Bending the truth is great isn't it?


If you were the absolute first to "check in" for a bus with allocated seating and a booking of 8, you wouldn't expect to be deliberately separated across the entire bus rows apart with no possibility to sit next to each other.

It's a giant middle finger to PAX when you implement an algorithm to intentionally inconvenience the customer. If you were the last to board, then you get the luck of the draw.

If you leave choosing your seat until free check-in opens 4 days before departure, you only have yourself to blame.

Passengers who were going to pay for a seat will already do so prior to this change. The algorithm has been changed to encourage those have been checked in with inconvenient seats to then pay to upgrade; looking to increase revenue.

However, their genius system allocates all middle seats first thereby ensuring this new segment of PAX who would then consider to pay to sit directly next to each other actually can't (because the middle seats are all gone).

End result is a "punished" customer who was actually willing to pay in the end, which is more than likely to result in a lost customer, as opposed to repeat.

I'd be curious to know the fate of the revenue intern who came up with this idea when it's all set and done. :}

[Hotel Tango]

They will soon stop it if pax vote with their feet! The problem with many RYR customers is that they want the cheapest deal, and then moan like hell if they don't get this, that and the other. Yet, these very same people keep on using RYR and MOL is laughing all the way to the bank!

[DaveReidUK]

Passengers who were going to pay for a seat will already do so prior to this change. The algorithm has been changed to encourage those have been checked in with inconvenient seats to then pay to upgrade; looking to increase revenue.

However, their genius system allocates all middle seats first thereby ensuring this new segment of PAX who would then consider to pay to sit directly next to each other actually can't (because the middle seats are all gone).

Not necessarily.

You could equally argue that, as word gets around, the FUD factor will encourage a higher proportion of passengers to opt for paying in advance to reserve seats than at present.

I'd be curious to know the fate of the revenue intern who came up with this idea when it's all set and done.He or she will probably get a bonus. :O

[racedo]

I attempted to chat online to FR customer services. When I got through I formally complained about the new policy. They refused to respond or make any comment!!!
My wife is just flying to Berlin with her godson on Sunday. I checked them in yesterday and, sure enough, they are booked onto middle seats in Row 6 and Row 32! Honestly, it's just pernicious.

So why are you such a tight git that you wouldn't buy them seats together..................

[vinnym]

They will soon stop it if pax vote with their feet! The problem with many RYR customers is that they want the cheapest deal, and then moan like hell if they don't get this, that and the other. Yet, these very same people keep on using RYR and MOL is laughing all the way to the bank!
You are probably right and Ryanair will then realise and change their seating policy and devise another plan to extort money out of customers, they have being doing it for years, that is why I stopped using them more than 10 years ago.

[mart901]

So why are you such a tight git that you wouldn't buy them seats together..................


It's the principle of the matter racedo. And the fear would be that in the same way as luggage, catering etc becoming a costly add on to a ticket that the privilege of sitting with the person(s) that you are on the same booking as will be one that you feel compelled to pay for. It defeats the principle of a cheap, simple flight and its a new level of opportunism I thought FR even would have refrained from. As a business they have done very nicely out of treating customers with more respect, this seems to have sent them back several years, and all the time the competition is there around them and if they don't handle this well they may very well find themselves handing business away.

[davidjohnson6]

From a personal standpoint, I really like this new seating policy. I fly about 20 sectors per year with Ryanair, almost all on my own. I never pay for an assigned seat and generally checkin the night before flying. The new policy means I will be almost guaranteed not to get a middle seat.

I did say *personal standpoint*. Bit of a bugger for people not travelling on their own though

[STN Ramp Rat]

Amusingly I was on a flight to a European capital city yesterday, it’s the sort of city where Friday is stag and hen party day but there are business travellers as well.

As I boarded I was treated to the sight of a stag dressed in a pink ballet dress seated in a middle seat with businessmen seated in the aisle and window seats either side of him. That was really quite funny but also highlights two serious points.

Regular business travellers have worked out already that they can get a guaranteed window or aisle seat by checking in late, in that sense much better than the old algorithm. The second point is that the Stag did not drink anything as his mates were seated elsewhere on the flight. There were four hen/stag parties on the flight and it was the quietest Friday flight I can remember.

The only way the seating algorithm will change is if the loss on onboard sales is greater than the income from seat sales less the commission that the crews are certainly loosing.

[AerRyan]

Was sitting beside a group heading to a wedding on my last flight, and trust me, the seperation did not stop them from drinking.

How someone can pay €55 for 10 cans of 330ml lager is beyond me. Twas fairly beyond him by the time we landed too!

[mik3bravo]

Weird! People pay d!ck all for a FR ticket then almost expect silver service and butlers on board. Seriously folks, a sense of perspective. It's a bus in the sky. You buy a bloody ticket, hop on, hop off. If you want a BA type service then buy a BA ticket. It's really that binary. Another thing, likes of FR and EZY have dramatically helped unlock the strangle hold other carriers had on the market. Ultimately YOU as the consumer win, you got a choice you didn't once have.

[jdcg]

So why are you such a tight git that you wouldn't buy them seats together..................

Because under any reasonable seating algorithm (i.e. all the ones that we've had so far) and if you check in in good time, then you can reasonably expect to sit together. This new system deliberately screws you over. If I left it late to check then I wouldn't complain. But this policy just creates animosity where there needn't be any.
Besides, what gives you the right to pontificate on our financial situation?

[SealinkBF]

Weird! People pay d!ck all for a FR ticket then almost expect silver service and butlers on board. Seriously folks, a sense of perspective. It's a bus in the sky. You buy a bloody ticket, hop on, hop off. If you want a BA type service then buy a BA ticket. It's really that binary. Another thing, likes of FR and EZY have dramatically helped unlock the strangle hold other carriers had on the market. Ultimately YOU as the consumer win, you got a choice you didn't once have.

I get that you pays your money and takes your choice, but not everyone is paying a low fare for their ticket. It's unnecessarily pissing people off. easyJet and BA aren't getting these complaints, so I think Ryanair is doing something different.

At the same time, I don't get why people who leave prebooking a seat are surprised when their first choice isn't available.

[mik3bravo]

I get that you pays your money and takes your choice, but not everyone is paying a low fare for their ticket. It's unnecessarily pissing people off. easyJet and BA aren't getting these complaints, so I think Ryanair is doing something different.

At the same time, I don't get why people who leave prebooking a seat are surprised when their first choice isn't available.

OK understand, then just buy a ticket from EZY or BA. If you don't want the FR hassle, vote with your feet and take your business elsewhere. But if you decide to remain and buy a FR ticket then I think we all know it can present a set of challenges.

It's like the guy who bangs on about government policies but when it comes to a general election he decides not to vote. People who don't vote then bang on about government policy have no argument.

Similarly people who buy a FR ticket for peanuts then bang on about trivial matters have no argument.

It's a bloody short haul flight. You hop on. You hop off. It's really that simple. Don't expect Etihad style in flight services when you buy a low cost ticket. As I say, if you don't like the FR approach then move your business, nobody is putting the gun to people's heads. People need to quit moaning and take control.

[Waldo1]

You buy 8 tickets for a take that concert, for example and you and your friends are spread all over the venue....would that be acceptable for all u lot? I've never heard so much crap in my life....paying for seating was designed to allow those who wanted a specific seat to choose it, not to break up a single booking....

[AerRyan]

Many people can't choose another airline, simply because there is no alternative in many cases.

[Noxegon]

Many people can't choose another airline, simply because there is no alternative in many cases.

This. Living in Ireland the choice is usually between EI and FR, both of whom offer a low cost product only. I'd happily pay a bit more for a better product but the only routes I have that option are are long haul.

[Heathrow Harry]

"You buy 8 tickets for a take that concert, for example and you and your friends are spread all over the venue....would that be acceptable for all u lot?"

Sounds like that really would beifit everyone else - not having a group of 8 all togther making a racket , getting p*****, and generally creating mayhem - or were you call going to sit in silence and commune with each other through the flight?

[SWBKCB]

It's unnecessarily pissing people off.

The other thing is that this is a deliberate change from what was previously available - if this had been the way that FR had always operated from the start there wouldn't be the fuss.

It is now perceived as a worsening of what was previously available.

[mik3bravo]

You're missing the point. If your requirements are seating together then you got that option, from as little as £2 per seat.

I repeat TWO POUNDS, cheaper than a cappuccino!

If you decide to not pre select your seats then you get what your given with all the CoG load balancing dynamics that will be a factor.

Let's put Ryanair in perspective compared to the others:

Ryanair 2017 plan (https://youtu.be/7J4fzAQ4Utg)

[AerRyan]

Cost €6 a seat on my last flight, so €12 per person return. €60 for a group of 5.

Not very cheap is it?

[Hotel Tango]

Cost €6 a seat on my last flight, so €12 per person return. €60 for a group of 5.

Not very cheap is it?

Don't like it? Don't fly RYR. Simple. Next please!

[Barnstable]

Myself and my partner were seated separately so looked at the cost of changing. I thought we'd only have to pay for a single change, but all seats beside both of us were showing as unavailable. To sit together we'd have had to make two separate changes, cheapest option was 24 euros.


We ended up not bothering and just switching seats after the plane had boarded. There quite a few empty seats so it was easily done. I might be tempted to pay 6 euros but not 24 for a short flight.

[Barnstable]

Don't like it? Don't fly RYR. Simple. Next please!


Doesn't mean we can't have a discussion about their policies, which can sometimes be self-defeating.



Don't want to read criticism of Ryan Air? Don't open the Ryan Air thread. Simple. Next please.

[Heathrow Harry]

I'm with HT and m3b here - Ryanair have always branded themselves as a dirt cheap bus service who will try and squeeze every extra penny out of their "customers" if they can. I always expect some ghastly new charge to have turned up when I fly them..

BUT they are cheap, they are safe, they do fly to/from places no-one else does and TBH you get a pretty decent flight normally - it isn't as if they fly LHR - Perth non-stop

TBH they compare very favourably with Cross-Country or Virgin trains - where you can pay a fortune and get no seat at all on a 4 -5 hr long trip

[Barnstable]

BUT they are cheap, they are safe, they do fly to/from places no-one else does and TBH you get a pretty decent flight normally


I'm sure no one disagrees. My complaint is that some seem to think that discussion of the pricing policies should go no further than "if you don't like them don't use them"

[Hotel Tango]

Doesn't mean we can't have a discussion about their policies

Of course we can. That was my contribution to the discussion. And if you check my record concerning RYR you will find that I'm no fan of their product. I have consequently never used them! As I've said over and over again, if people object to their policies then don't fly with them. If enough customers vote with their feet the airline is more likely to consider reviewing its policy regarding seating then if people moan but continue to fly with them.

[inOban]

Sure, if buy a 'national' ticket, which allows you to get on the next train by any operator going your way, then you can end up standing. As far as I am aware, such tickets have never been available on airlines!

If on the other hand you buy something more like a plane ticket, then a seat reservation is always included. And if you're buying more than one, then they will, if possible, be adjacent.

And as for 'you have a choice', many FR destinations from second tier airports are served only by FR. Excluding the major holiday destinations, the only ones from EDI which are served by other operators are CPH, STN, and Krakow, I think.

[G-FORZ]

Priority boarding doesn't change the free allocation, paid for PB at booking for a short break in Menorca flying Wednesday from EMA, just checked in got allocated 9B and 32B for me and the wife. Showing 31 rows of 3 completely empty and only 44 allocated seats for the plane... it looks far from full with seats for sale at £14.99

[Barnstable]

Priority boarding doesn't change the free allocation, paid for PB at booking for a short break in Menorca flying Wednesday from EMA, just checked in got allocated 9B and 32B for me and the wife. Showing 31 rows of 3 completely empty and only 44 allocated seats for the plane... it looks far from full with seats for sale at £14.99


Are adjacent seats available?


I'm wondering if, should two people want to sit together its better to make totally separate bookings - then, you might get away with doing just one change

[AerRyan]

Don't like it? Don't fly RYR. Simple. Next please!

I'd advise you to read my previous posts before making an arse of yourself.

I won't be flying Ryanair when there's a suitable option not to, and think that market will decide, but it is by no means cheap.

[G-FORZ]

Are adjacent seats available?



Seats available left and right of 9B, full row of 3 (ABC) to front (row 8) and rear (row 10) opposite aisle (8 & 9 DEF).

They'll get the additional £6 seat booking for return flight, so I guess they win.

It's not the cost, Just seems senseless to separate people unnecessarily. Thought with Priority boarding we might have had more chance of being formally seated together (as opposed to grabbing the spare seats anyway)

[mik3bravo]

Priority boarding doesn't change the free allocation, paid for PB at booking for a short break in Menorca flying Wednesday from EMA, just checked in got allocated 9B and 32B for me and the wife. Showing 31 rows of 3 completely empty and only 44 allocated seats for the plane... it looks far from full with seats for sale at £14.99

Any time I book a FR flight I always pre-select my outbound and inbound seat allocation. I just rather have control of that myself. Yes, it's costing additional but when I add up the ticket, seat allocation, fast track, short term parking, I'm still saving a good amount. It's just hassle free, no drama, no nasty surprises, I'm in control and get what I want.

If I were to try similar itinerary with BA, Shamrock, Stobart, Flybe, Cityjet, rarely will I get an all in total price close to the FR total cost. Admittedly, I'm talking here about bookings I make generally 8 to 12 weeks ahead of departure slot, in some case even further in advance. I frequently fly, combination of commuting for work, pleasure, business travel too. I use any of the Following airports: Southend, City, Stansted, Gatwick cause all are handy for me to be honest. But if I'm using FR then mostly that will be a Stansted departure for me, Orange short term car park, 2 minute walk I'm in the terminal, further 10 minutes I'm through fast track security. Plus I got the seat I want to get on and off the aircraft fast. It just works!

[DaveReidUK]

Doesn't mean we can't have a discussion about their policies, which can sometimes be self-defeating.

Quite so.

While "I hate Ryanair, I never fly them" is a perfectly valid point of view, it shouldn't be mistaken for one that actually advances the debate. :O

Nor does the equally specious argument that if you've chosen voluntarily to fly a particular airline, you then have no right to be critical of any aspect of their service or T&Cs.

[mik3bravo]

I think inevitably there will always be a percentage of total customers carried by a airline, in this case, Ryanair, who will always be unsatisfied. Everything in some perspective, despite the annoyance and frustration passengers continue to use Ryanair in very considerable volumes. Certainly much much higher volumes than other low cost airlines. At the end of the day, price is the lowest common denomination with the low cost airline business model. The fact Ryanair passenger seat allocation at the checkin desk is a source of frustration for some people is irrelevant to be honest. Ultimately many consumers seem willing to generally accept some if the naff policies. Not saying I agree with the Ryanair position but they are not Europe's No. 1 airline for no reason. Like them or hate them, they are one tightly run business, which many competitors stuggle to competitively attack.

[occasional]

Ryanair seem to be on very dodgy legal ground here, particularly because they are redefining the nature of a contract.

When you make a contract it is assumed that the other party to that contract will act in good faith and not deliberately do something which is to your disadvantage. When you hire a car you do not expect it to be without fuel despite the fact that this may not be mentioned in the documentation.

In this case Ryanair appear to be acting in bad faith and deliberately disadvantaging customers. I would expect some form of legal response fairly quickly.

[jdcg]

One would hope so. Because there's a difference between saying you have to pay for something that you don't have and deliberately taking something away so that then something has to be paid for. Deliberately splitting up couples in order to derive more income does cross a line I think

[mik3bravo]

Ryanair seem to be on very dodgy legal ground here, particularly because they are redefining the nature of a contract.

When you make a contract it is assumed that the other party to that contract will act in good faith and not deliberately do something which is to your disadvantage. When you hire a car you do not expect it to be without fuel despite the fact that this may not be mentioned in the documentation.

In this case Ryanair appear to be acting in bad faith and deliberately disadvantaging customers. I would expect some form of legal response fairly quickly.

Not sure of that. Contractually I don't believe they've done or are doing anything in breach of contract. They agree to provide 'a seat' on their flight in return for your paid airfare. If you further contract to purchase a specific seat allocation, they provide it (subject to operational safety requirements). I don't believe the legal contract argument carries weight at all, though interesting viewpoint nonetheless.

General Conditions of Carriage (https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful-info/help-centre/terms-and-conditions)

6.1 All flights operate with allocated seating, we reserve the right to assign or reassign seats at any time, even after boarding of the aircraft. This may be necessary for operational, safety or security reasons.
and 6.2 mentions the following:

Effective from October 2016 for an adult travelling with children under 12 (excl. infants) – it will become mandatory for one adult in the booking to reserve a seat. All children under 12 in the same booking will receive a reserved seat free of charge. This ensures parents and young children sit together during the flight. This will also allow you to check-in for your flight 60 days before departure.
Also, as detailed under the Ryanair regulations on specific subjects under their General T&Cs the following is clearly stated:

Reserved seating

Customers can select and buy their preferred seat online from the time of booking right up to 2 hours before each booked flight.

There are 3 types of allocated seat available for purchase:

Priority with extra legroom Seats from £/€ 11.00 - Rows 1,2 (D,E,F) & 16,17 (includes priority boarding)

Priority Seats from £/€7.00 - Rows 2 (A,B,C)3 -5 (includes priority boarding)

Passengers who have purchased Priority Boarding will not be asked to place their cabin bag in the aircraft hold, unless necessary due to operational reasons.

Standard Seats from £/€2.00 – Rows 6-15 & 18-33

Allocated seat fees are non-refundable except as provided in Articles 4.2, 10.2, 10.3 and 10.4

Customers who do not wish to select and purchase their preferred seat, can check-in online between 4 days and 2 hours before each booked flight and will be randomly allocated a seat free of charge.

[occasional]

A quick look at Wikipedia produces

"Terms can be implied into contracts according to the custom of the market in which the contracting parties are operating."

I would suggest that seating parties together is a longstanding custom in the aviation market and that it is therefore an implied term of the contract.

[mik3bravo]

A quick look at Wikipedia produces

"Terms can be implied into contracts according to the custom of the market in which the contracting parties are operating."

I would suggest that seating parties together is a longstanding custom in the aviation market and that it is therefore an implied term of the contract.

Unless expressly stated otherwise which they expressly do state on the T&Cs that random selection applies in certain specific circumstances. Implied meaning is redundant in that case.

The question arises, are the T&Cs any more onerous than the majority of other airlines? [that's a rhetorical question btw].
This is the legal benchmark of proof and in my personal opinion, contractually they are fair and balanced through providing a passenger with choice and alternative which is what is important.

[Hotel Tango]

I certainly don't see anything legally questionable about their above quoted T&Cs. It's clear and it's fair. Furthermore, as already stated, for only €2 a seat (standard seats) That's an additional €16 round trip for a family of four (less if the kids are under age 12). I really cannot grasp what the problem is here.

AerRyan reckons he/she paid €6 per seat. The nearest I can see to that figure is the Priority seating although it is quoted in their T&Cs as €7 per seat. That is an extra service. Again, I don't find that particularly expensive. Finally, at €11 per seat for Priority and extra legroom I consider that a very fair price. My airline of choice charges €20 per seat for that (not that I use that option mind).

[occasional]

Not sure of that. Contractually I don't believe they've done or are doing anything in breach of contract. They agree to provide 'a seat' on their flight in return for your paid airfare. If you further contract to purchase a specific seat allocation, they provide it (subject to operational safety requirements). I don't believe the legal contract argument carries weight at all, though interesting viewpoint nonetheless.

General Conditions of Carriage (https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful-info/help-centre/terms-and-conditions)


and 6.2 mentions the following:

[/B]
Also, as detailed under the Ryanair regulations on specific subjects under their General T&Cs the following is clearly stated:

[/B]



I suggest your post illustrates the problem.
To discover what will happen the passenger has to read through reams of terms and conditions and even then the terms are only clear to those who already know what they mean. This, per se, is undesirable as it wastes a massive amount of time for the whole community.
To my mind it is time that the authorities (in the UK the OFT) came down hard on these attempts to erode the fundamental basis of contracts for they waste hours of many peoples time.

[DaveReidUK]

Furthermore, as already stated, for only €2 a seat (standard seats)

No, it's from €2/£2 a seat.

You will find relatively few, if any, selectable seats left at that price when you check in online.

AerRyan reckons he/she paid €6 per seat.

As it happens, I've just paid £6 per seat in each direction for a trip with the wife in a couple of weeks time. That's a bog-standard seat (Row 14), no additional legroom or other priority.

[mik3bravo]

I suggest your post illustrates the problem.
To discover what will happen the passenger has to read through reams of terms and conditions and even then the terms are only clear to those who already know what they mean. This, per se, is undesirable as it wastes a massive amount of time for the whole community.
To my mind it is time that the authorities (in the UK the OFT) came down hard on these attempts to erode the fundamental basis of contracts for they waste hours of many peoples time.

Nanny state is what you are suggesting. Citizens are not dumb. Every online airfare booking requires the purchaser to affirm they've read and accept the T&Cs. Most people can't be bothered to read any T&Cs so that's not an airlines problem. That's the laziness on the part of the consumer. The Ryanair approach to clear T&Cs is comparable to all other airlines. In other words it's consumer clear and provides several options and choices to the consumer. However, becoming a Nanny state under a Brexit cluster flup national fallout will be an own goal.

[davidjohnson6]

I'm with occasional on the T&C question. The relationship between a person and a company on a retail transaction should be straightforward enough to be understood by both sides in the vast majority of cases without reference to the legal documentation. The legals are substantially there in case of a dispute rather than customers reading them by default - and I imagine most people lack the legal knowledge to undetstand fully the finer points of the T&Cs. It is the responsibility of the company to communicate clearly in easily understood language and in a transparent and obvious manner what a consumer should expect on a retail transaction prior to purchase.

Ryanair will have a few lawyers who have substantial legal training and act once for all journeys sold for the year - making it worth their while. Expecting Joe Bloggs who didn't go to law school to refer T&Cs on a purchase worth £50 to a solicitor who charges £200 per hour might be legally permissible but is utterly unreasonable - it's why we have consumer protection laws in the first place

If I buy a train ticket from London to Edinburgh, I have a clear understanding of what to expect without reading the legals. Same goes for flying with Easyjet or BA. I don't understand why Ryanair should be able to bury things in the legals and get away with it.

[mik3bravo]

Simple solution. Do away with random seat allocation as much as possible. Select your seats at online check in. Earlier you check in online then better your chances to select and pay for seats you prefer. If you fail to online check in time then you go to a check in desk. Ask if your preference seat locations are available and pay by card if a charge is due. Alternatively you should be given a choice - pay the nominal cost for a preferenced seat or waive the charge and take what you're given.

I found a very valid comment on this issue which was:

You know this when you choose Ryanair. Why should I pay for this & then have to listen to people in front of me holding up queues arguing they SHOULD be put sitting together when they easily COULD be sitting together had they paid for it. No pay, no play.

the journal.ie (http://www.thejournal.ie/ryanair-seating-3440285-Jun2017/)

However, I do find it ridiculous that people who decide not to buy allocated seats then kick off cause they can't seat together. It's a stupid argument. Is austerity THAT bad that punters can scratch a few bob together to buy seats together. You can be damn certain some of these people are the ones flashing the cards for the exorbitant in flight snacks, beers, duty free products. Complete storm in a tea cup. There's zero legal or contractual implied or otherwise, it's open, fair, balanced. Nuts that people get knickers in a twist on an issue they had choice in purchasing allocated seats but go mental when they can't seat all together. Meanwhile majority of pax on board have actually taken a decision to buy allocated seats.

[Barnstable]

Simple solution. Do away with random seat allocation as much as possible. Select your seats at online check in. Earlier you check in online then better your chances to select and pay for seats you prefer. If you fail to online check in time then you go to a check in desk. Ask if your preference seat locations are available and pay by card if a charge is due. Alternatively you should be given a choice - pay the nominal cost for a preferenced seat or waive the charge and take what you're given.

I found a very valid comment on this issue which was:



the journal.ie (http://www.thejournal.ie/ryanair-seating-3440285-Jun2017/)

However, I do find it ridiculous that people who decide not to buy allocated seats then kick off cause they can't seat together. It's a stupid argument. Is austerity THAT bad that punters can scratch a few bob together to buy seats together. You can be damn certain some of these people are the ones flashing the cards for the exorbitant in flight snacks, beers, duty free products. Complete storm in a tea cup. There's zero legal or contractual implied or otherwise, it's open, fair, balanced. Nuts that people get knickers in a twist on an issue they had choice in purchasing allocated seats but go mental when they can't seat all together. Meanwhile majority of pax on board have actually taken a decision to buy allocated seats.


Nobody's "kicking off" or "getting their knickers in a twist". We're simply having a reasonable discussion about Ryan Air's pricing policies. It seems that those who regularly pay for seats are getting very resentful about the alleged freeloaders who don't.


I'm happy being allocated a random seat. If they want to force people to pay for a seat they should hike the advertised fare to include the cost of a reservation. Until that happens people need to accept the fact that other passengers are content to be seated randomly.


BTW it's never two euros to change seats in my experience. It's often more like 12 euros per seat.

[DaveReidUK]

I found a very valid comment on this issue which was

... in all likelihood penned by a Ryanair sockpuppet :O

What a shame that thejournal.ie (http://www.thejournal.ie/ryanair-seating-3440285-Jun2017/), like many of the publications reporting on the issue, didn't have the nous or cojones to challenge Ryanair's disingenuous lie that "this policy has been in place since 2014".

Even Ryanair's own crews are now complaining about the grief they have started getting from passengers as a result of the new policy.

[mik3bravo]

Any link to that comment?

[jdcg]

Isn't the point actually that if you don't pay for allocated seating then you can't expect a [I]guarantee[I]of seats together. BUT, if there are seats together still, surely the algorithm should seat you together if you're travelling together. I don't pay for a reserved seat on a train so I don't insist that my seats are together. But more often than not they are.

[DaveReidUK]

Any link to that comment?

Seventh comment down on the link in my (and your) post.

"I was told that this was a new policy by a crew member on a flight last week. She said it was making things extremely difficult for them as passengers are being deliberately split up"

[racedo]

Cost €6 a seat on my last flight, so €12 per person return. €60 for a group of 5.

Not very cheap is it?

Cost of total ticket, cost of total trip..................

[ayroplain]

No, it's from €2/£2 a seat.
You will find relatively few, if any, selectable seats left at that price when you check in online.

If you are going to purchase seats why would you not purchase them at time of booking rather than wait until you check in online when the choice may be less? It's a long time since I paid more than £2 for a seat and always done at booking time.

[occasional]

Nanny state is what you are suggesting. Citizens are not dumb. Every online airfare booking requires the purchaser to affirm they've read and accept the T&Cs. Most people can't be bothered to read any T&Cs so that's not an airlines problem. That's the laziness on the part of the consumer. The Ryanair approach to clear T&Cs is comparable to all other airlines. In other words it's consumer clear and provides several options and choices to the consumer. However, becoming a Nanny state under a Brexit cluster flup national fallout will be an own goal.
People keep on saying that the T and Cs are clear, but as far as I am aware the same T&Cs applied to both the present policy and the previous policy.
Quite obviously that makes them unclear or irrelevant.

[Bengt]

Having flown with Ryanair since 2002 in appr 200 flights I have followed the development from a consumer perspective. From MOL "What part of fu--ing no returns did you not understand" to "Always getting better".
I do not have a problem with separate seating as such. I do believe this has killed a lot of the goodwill FR REALLY has built up the last two years. Earlier we all played the Ryanair game. Measuring hand luggage, weighing hand luggage, buying 0,01 € tickets...Then came the more relaxed and sensible approach. Now it is one step back...
Personally I normally fly Norwegian when I have a choice and then I pay for seating. If i travelled with company on FR I would do the same.
I flew a few weeks back with FR.I did not pay for reserved seat. And yes I did get a middle seat on both flights.

[01475]

I did think Ryanair were getting closer to EasyJet levels of acceptability. You're right; it's a shame they've stepped back :-(

[DaveReidUK]

If you are going to purchase seats why would you not purchase them at time of booking rather than wait until you check in online when the choice may be less?

I have no doubt that's what most people do, given that you can check in up to 60 days before your flight.

If you book/check in closer to your planned travel date, then you may well find (as I did) that most if not all of the £2 seats have gone.

[vinnym]

This "new" system of seat allocation really means pay up or we will split your party up. Back to the bad old days of poor customer service that they said they were getting away from.

[mik3bravo]

I did think Ryanair were getting closer to EasyJet levels of acceptability. You're right; it's a shame they've stepped back :-(

I agree. It has taken them quiet a while to rebuild a newer caring customer reputation.

Ryanair have overnight, destroyed the good reputation they've been attempting to build.

In the short term I think it might result in increased purchasing of allocated seats.

However, in the medium to long term, I think customers will think twice about using Ryanair in the future.

I know from my own personal viewpoint the only time I'll ever use them is literally for a quick flight, with no checked luggage or cabin bag, perhaps a laptop but that's it. I will never use them to take the family on a holiday. The cabin tannoy is none stop broadcasting of sales promos and instructions in badly broken English often unrecognisible communications to the cabin as pax all look at one another in puzzlement at what latest cabin announcements the cabin crew are eager to shout out. Listen out the next time you fly Ryanair. Count how many announcements are made on your flight and divide them into cabin safety and sales / promo announcements. It's non bloody stop. Your head hurts with the broken English crap they bang on about as you enjoy your middle row randomly assigned seat.

All that said, at the end of the day it's a business, a very successfully run operation and really that's what the execs in there are almost about, growth, revenue, cost savings, shareholder value, etc. Customer experience is somewhere on the list of KPIs but I suspect it's low compared to other KPIs.

[inOban]

June traffic +12%. LF +2%.

[slip and turn]

EEmax +50%?

[Generic Username]

T&Cs quote "Customers who do not wish to select and purchase their preferred seat, can check-in online between 4 days and 2 hours before each booked flight and will be randomly allocated a seat free of charge" Is Ryanair applying a random seat selection algorithm or deliberately allocating middle seats? If it's not random then they aren't in compliance with the contract.

[Trav a la]

RA reputation -20%?

[jdcg]

I've actually found the sales promo talk to be far less prevalent on recent flights I've taken with FR and not too annoying. Also, I think the English language capability of staff is pretty good and I have found most continental Europeans working for FR much friendlier than UK / Irish staff and perfectly adequate. But it's right that this seating change is something that makes you go back to think twice about booking a FR flight, whereas since the "getting better" initiative started I wouldn't hesitate to fly them

[racedo]

June traffic +12%. LF +2%.

Pretty much every flight I have been on this year has been full.

[Sober Lark]

Except yesterday's flight from Koln to Dublin. They left me behind! Five hours in the airport waiting for the flight. Working away. Kept checking the time on my laptop. Went to gate 40 mins early and missed the flight by 20! I had assumed the time on my laptop had automatically changed to German time but it had remained at GMT. Told the story to a colleague this morning and he had the same problem in the US except he assumed the timer on his mobile hadn't changed when it had and he manually changed it himself resulting in a trains planes and automobile chase across the US to get back on schedule.

PS Ryanair were quite understanding thank you.

[compton3bravo]

Silly boy! You do have a watch don't you?

[Barnstable]

A couple of times recently I've noticed that boarding has been completed 15 mins before departure time, meaning we're sitting around waiting for the slot. At least it means we leave on time, but it means its riskier to show up at the gate 20 mins before departure time.

[Sober Lark]

BSilly boy! You do have a watch don't you?

Iberian sense of humour accepted. How many people actually still wear watches? I'd imagine digital products are a gathering cloud over the watch industry especially amongst the younger generation.

Couldn't the Ryanair App inform passengers of delays, gate changes etc? Mine didn't do so. Compare this to the likes of the LH App which has many such features I find especially convenient.

[Mallorcaguy]

According to various Ukrainian news reports, Ryanair today cancelled all of it's new routes to Kiev and Lviv stating that Borispol airport and Ukraine in general is not a safe place for investment, according to Borispol it is because ryanair want an 80% reduction in the fees charged by the airport for the London flights which Borispol cannot afford due to the two other airlines that fly to London.
Ryanairs website no is no longer acceping any booking for any Ukrainian flights.
Typical dummy spitting at Ryanair again, if they don't get what they want they cancel everything. Hopefully this will pave the way for a better LCC to enter the Ukrainian market.

[davidjohnson6]

Normally asking for a very large discounts is FR's way of realising that the routes do not look profitable based on current sales *or* they realise they want to use aircraft elsewhere

Is it perhaps the case with Air Berlin and Alitalia both struggling in deep debt, that FR realises that it over committed aircraft which it needs in Italy and/or Germany instead at likely very short notice ?

[racedo]

According to various Ukrainian news reports, Ryanair today cancelled all of it's new routes to Kiev and Lviv stating that Borispol airport and Ukraine in general is not a safe place for investment, according to Borispol it is because ryanair want an 80% reduction in the fees charged by the airport for the London flights which Borispol cannot afford due to the two other airlines that fly to London.
Ryanairs website no is no longer acceping any booking for any Ukrainian flights.
Typical dummy spitting at Ryanair again, if they don't get what they want they cancel everything. Hopefully this will pave the way for a better LCC to enter the Ukrainian market.

Ryanair made an agreement with the airport.
Airport decides that it doesn't wish to stick to it.

http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-cancels-planned-ukraine-services-as-kiev-airport-fails-to-honour-commitments/

Not unsurprisingly Ryanair decides if fail to honour this then what else will they not honour and moves aircraft elsewhere.

Ukraine needs to learn its history when dealing with Ryanair.

[AirportPlanner1]

Ukraine to London, especially Lviv, looked a bit of a tall order from the start. Not easy for Ukrainian migrants to move to the U.K. Lviv a virtually unknown city. Recent events putting people off going. BA and Air Ukraine for those with money, and there are a lot of rich Ukrainians

[DaveReidUK]

Ryanair made an agreement with the airport.
Airport decides that it doesn't wish to stick to it.

Ryanair Cancels Planned Ukraine Services As Kiev Airport Fails To Honour Commitments | Ryanair's Corporate Website (http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-cancels-planned-ukraine-services-as-kiev-airport-fails-to-honour-commitments/)

Not unsurprisingly Ryanair decides if fail to honour this then what else will they not honour and moves aircraft elsewhere.

Shock news: both sides in a dispute have different spin on the facts. :O

[Noxegon]

I'm just back from the Ukraine. Kyiv is an interesting city.

I was thinking I would use Ryanair to do my next trip there. Oh well.

[compton3bravo]

There is always Wizz.

[jdcg]

I was definitely going to take my wife to Lviv. It's a beautiful city. Maybe Wizz could pick it up, although I think they tried it before

[Barnstable]

Anyone have any idea why the new Copenhagen-Liverpool winter route isn't on sale? It was previously

[ssflyer]

I wonder how long the PR department at FR can handle the backlash.:*
390+ posts and counting
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g1-i10702-k7135175-o390-Ryanair_Allocated_Seating-Air_Travel.html#84676827
SS

[Noxegon]

There is always Wizz.

Not from DUB. I used LH, which was comfortable but not cheap.

[MDS]

After a recent LBA-AGP sector I observed:

Families who were split apart all boarded together via the front door, even if some were sat at the back, so they had to push through the aircraft and delay other PAX. Also a very long queue at the front door.
Two stag parties were a lot quieter than normal (not that I'm one to complain about that!) owing to the fact their party was split across the aircraft and not together.
Many people changing seats after boarding completed and swapping thereby delaying our already delayed departure. Crew powerless to do anything - what are they going to do - say no?
Sat next to a Spanish guy who was head of his family who had been split across the aircraft. One comment he kept repeating throughout the flight: no repetir - never again.


When I travel alone I only care that I don't get stuck in the middle seat. Now I don't even have to bother to pay - I'll just wait until the day of the flight to check in and ensure those are already assigned.

But hey, let's just pretend nothing has changed and customers are just cheap complaining b******s.
Ignore the evidence to the contrary, they're clearly getting so much better - the TripAdvisor thread proves how delighted people are with the latest customer service improvement. :D

[Charlie Roy]

Two stag parties were a lot quieter than normal (not that I'm one to complain about that!) owing to the fact their party was split across the aircraft and not together.

They probably bought a lot less alcohol too.

[LGS6753]

O'Leary has told the EU parliament he hopes Brexit fails.
I have never been a fan of Ryanair's product, but I will now ensure I never fly with them again.
Perhaps when the UK leaves the appalling EU, we will start standing up for UK businesses, not those registered in foreign tax havens.

[bcn_boy]

O'Leary has told the EU parliament he hopes Brexit fails.
I have never been a fan of Ryanair's product, but I will now ensure I never fly with them again.
Perhaps when the UK leaves the appalling EU, we will start standing up for UK businesses, not those registered in foreign tax havens.
Whilst I have my grievances with Ryanair, his opinions about Brexit should not be a reason to choose not to fly this airline. I have read some ridiculous things on this forum but this one has me laughing.

[virginblue]

Always useful to give some context - this is what he really said:

"“The sensible outcome here is to ignore the plebiscite of 12 months ago, stay in Europe and continue to benefit from Open Skies.”

This as he gave a EU Parliament committee in a session titled "Brexit in aviation: Perspective of the Airlines and Tourism Industry" his views on the effects of Brexit. The session was also attended by Willie Walsh (somewhat more optimistic) and top brass from Airbus (concerned about moving staff and components), TUI (pretty much echoing O'Leary), Lufthansa (blabbering about the ME and missing the point) and Airlines of America (warning of the consequences for the TATL JV).

Some quotes from what MOL said:

"This is going to be a real mess. Brexit will be one of the great economic suicide notes in history."

"There is not a legal mechanism on which airlines can operate in a 'hard Brexit, no deal' outcome. There will simply be no flights"

“There is a real prospect, and we need to deal with this, that there are going to be no flights between the UK and Europe for a period of weeks, months beyond March 2019."

““There is not going to be an interim agreement, there is not going to be a legal basis, we will be cancelling flights. We will be cancelling people’s holidays for summer of 2019.”

"I am not sure the Brits, who like their holidays in spain fancy Karachi" (talking about a remark by a senior Brexit minister who had allegedly told him the lost European airline traffic could be made up through a bilateral agreement with Pakistan)

“By September 2018 when your average British voter is sitting down to work out where he is going on his holidays in 2019, the two options he will have are to drive to Scotland or get a ferry to Ireland”

[vinnym]

Does MOL really believe all that, do you think Spain Portugal Greece Italy or France will really want to loose all the money that Brits spend there every summer, me doesn't think so. More hot air from a nobody.

[fairflyer]

The point is, some resolution to the fact that we'll be out of the European Court of Justice and therefore by default out of the current open skies, may well be drafted, debated and resolved one day, but there is no way on this earth it will be concluded by March 2019. The departments involved currently don't even know where to start - not a single statement has been promulgated as to how they think this will be resolved - all too bloody difficult. More than that, airlines can't plan UK-EU schedules for 2019 if they don't know what the rules will be by this time latest next year - and they won't. Old bilateral agreements which may have existed previously between the UK and the EU27 individual countries, will in the main be unworkable. Head in sand 'it will all be resolved so stop scaremongering' bull is pathetic, people genuinely don't know where to start on this, it is a very real nightmare which no doubt will be resolved one day, but there simply isn't the time. Better swat up your freedoms of the air and associated legislation - nothing in reverting to WTO rules covers these at all.

[Seljuk22]

Some nice overview of new routes starting this winter
Ryanair W17 new routes as of 10JUL17 :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/273757/ryanair-w17-new-routes-as-of-10jul17/)

[racedo]

Does MOL really believe all that, do you think Spain Portugal Greece Italy or France will really want to loose all the money that Brits spend there every summer, me doesn't think so. More hot air from a nobody.

Nope
Largest Airline in Europe,
Serves every single EU Country
Deals directly with Govt bureaucracy every day
Obtained detailed legal opinion on outcome and risk to his employers business

And you knowldge on this comes from where ?.

[davidjohnson6]

There is some truth in MOL's comments but in the past he has been very prone to hyperbole and crying wolf about things which often do not actually happen. This means many people (including me) are less inclined to believe his scare stories compared to comments that might come from the heads of BA/IAG, Easyjet, Norwegian or any other airline with significant pan-Europe operations

[ayroplain]

More hot air from a nobody.

LOL. Whatever else MOL might be considered to be, anyone who refers to him as a "nobody" has no credibility on this Forum.

I think you'll find that W.Walsh and the others know the critical situation that pertains at this moment in time and it is in line with what MOL says. However, they are, typically, holding back and allowing MOL to do their shouting for them. If nothing continues to happen things will start to hot up fairly quickly.

[SWBKCB]

Old bilateral agreements which may have existed previously between the UK and the EU27 individual countries

Did all the EU27 countries even exist before Open Skies? (yes, I know they did - but as independent nations with aviation agreements?)

This means many people (including me) are less inclined to believe his scare stories compared to comments that might come from the heads of BA/IAG, Easyjet, Norwegian or any other airline with significant pan-Europe operations

I know what you mean DJ6, but on this one I agree with fairflyer - in airline planning terms, March 2019 is a blink of an eye away. And how high up the list of things to be done is aviation? Some big ticket items ahead in the negotiations queue.

[G-FORZ]

If FR are threatening to cancel summer 2019 flights due to Brexit (MOL's words), then why risk booking with them for that period? They may be the largest EU airline but he is the only one suggesting flights will be cancelled. Not great PR and on top of the seat splitting (which I've just had on a plane with only 60 passengers) yet more reason to look at alternative carriers. Shame really they'd done so well do dispel past misgivings.

[fairflyer]

LOL. Whatever else MOL might be considered to be, anyone who refers to him as a "nobody" has no credibility on this Forum.

I think you'll find that W.Walsh and the others know the critical situation that pertains at this moment in time and it is in line with what MOL says. However, they are, typically, holding back and allowing MOL to do their shouting for them. If nothing continues to happen things will start to hot up fairly quickly.

I think you'll start to hear the other airline heads get a bit more vocal when it's 18 months to go for winter 18/19 schedules which is when a lot draft, but maybe not quite fix their forward schedules. There were a handful of bilateral agreements with some of the EU27 countries that pre-existed the current rules, but not with all 27. A few major accounting companies like the Ernst and Youngs of this world have dug into this in some depth and suggest that there is a massive amount of work to be done to resolve. Entirely separate negotiations to anything else going on in Brexit-world. The fear is that the UK government will use access to UK market for aviation as a bargaining chip in their armory of 'bargaining chips' and therefore what we end up with will be unresolved and unclear until the 11th hour and 59th minute, at best.

[FQTLSteve]

This doesn't just involve flights from UK to EU 27 it will affect all EU rest of world agreements, for example the EU US open skies. The UK will cease to be able to operate under these agreements immediately if nothing is done. The ECJ oversees all EU commercial aviation regulations. The complexity is IMHO on top of everything else, is too much and will overwhelm UK Gov.

[Winniebago]

This doesn't just involve flights from UK to EU 27 it will affect all EU rest of world agreements, for example the EU US open skies. The UK will cease to be able to operate under these agreements immediately if nothing is done. The ECJ oversees all EU commercial aviation regulations. The complexity is IMHO on top of everything else, is too much and will overwhelm UK Gov.

...and you know what might scupper any negotiated agreement at the end of the day? Gibraltar. The EU27 will stand united in support of Spain, who by the way represent 25% of our intra-EU passenger traffic. This will be one enormous pile of you know what...

[116d]

Always useful to give some context - this is what he really said:

"“The sensible outcome here is to ignore the plebiscite of 12 months ago, stay in Europe and continue to benefit from Open Skies.”

This as he gave a EU Parliament committee in a session titled "Brexit in aviation: Perspective of the Airlines and Tourism Industry" his views on the effects of Brexit. The session was also attended by Willie Walsh (somewhat more optimistic) and top brass from Airbus (concerned about moving staff and components), TUI (pretty much echoing O'Leary), Lufthansa (blabbering about the ME and missing the point) and Airlines of America (warning of the consequences for the TATL JV).

Some quotes from what MOL said:

"This is going to be a real mess. Brexit will be one of the great economic suicide notes in history."

"There is not a legal mechanism on which airlines can operate in a 'hard Brexit, no deal' outcome. There will simply be no flights"

“There is a real prospect, and we need to deal with this, that there are going to be no flights between the UK and Europe for a period of weeks, months beyond March 2019."

““There is not going to be an interim agreement, there is not going to be a legal basis, we will be cancelling flights. We will be cancelling people’s holidays for summer of 2019.”

"I am not sure the Brits, who like their holidays in spain fancy Karachi" (talking about a remark by a senior Brexit minister who had allegedly told him the lost European airline traffic could be made up through a bilateral agreement with Pakistan)

“By September 2018 when your average British voter is sitting down to work out where he is going on his holidays in 2019, the two options he will have are to drive to Scotland or get a ferry to Ireland”

What was interesting was his swipes about a lack of goodwill within the EU towards the UK being a barrier towards a deal and accusations of France and Germany doing one over the UK when given an opportunity.

Link: Ryanair boss: ?No flights? between UK and EU after Brexit (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/11/ryanair-chief-michael-oleary-discuss-brexit-effect-aviation/)

Obviously the UK hasn't covered itself in glory, but still interesting nonetheless.

Regardless of O'Leary's history of comments in the media, he's not stupid and comes across as someone who's concerned about the impact Brexit is going to have on his business, especially when you look beyond his quotes to pivot growth away from the UK and not base new aircraft here. Isn't it about 100-odd of their fleet based in UK airports and about a third of its business involving the UK (either flights to/from the UK or domestic UK flights)?

[virginblue]

Problem really is that in airline planning terms, there are only 9 months left to have everything resolved as flights for April 2019 are usually bookable 360 days in advance, i.e. from April 2018 (and even before on some LCCs). The resulting turn-over from those early sales is most probably factored into cash-flow planning of those airlines, so you cannot simply say "so what, this time we will open advance booking just 90 days in advance".

So the likes of Boris Johnson should stop smirking and being smug, but actually start working on the thousands of issues big and small that need to be resolved to avoid a car-crash scenario.

[AerRyan]

Or do what all airlines do, allow bookings, and the discontinue booking closer to the time if a resolution has not been made. Few people book a flight that's a year away.

Also, I can't see any Ryanair routes for sale for next summer.

[racedo]

The fear is that the UK government will use access to UK market for aviation as a bargaining chip in their armory of 'bargaining chips' and therefore what we end up with will be unresolved and unclear until the 11th hour and 59th minute, at best.

Then goodbye to the need for a new runway at Heathrow...............

[racedo]

What was interesting was his swipes about a lack of goodwill within the EU towards the UK being a barrier towards a deal and accusations of France and Germany doing one over the UK when given an opportunity.


Surprises me not at all.

He may be the one shouting loudest but given that WW of IAG was also at said meeting he indicated nothing to disagree with MOL.

IAG will find itself impacted as well given EU Ownership rules, EU airline had to be over 50% EU owned.................... UK will I believe want to operate same criteria.

[virginblue]

Or do what all airlines do, allow bookings, and the discontinue booking closer to the time if a resolution has not been made.

I think the outcry is quite different if a couple of flights are involved or thousands of flights.

The main issue, however, is that the airlines will not want to have aircraft sit idle on the ground. So at some point when they cannot plan ahead they will need to enact a Plan B - and once that plan is implemented, no capacity will be left that could be redirected when the ship of fools in Downing Street come to a last minute solution. Hence MOL remark that they will shift capacity away from the UK at some point.

Few people book a flight that's a year away.

There is always a group of people who book as soon as flights are released. Hence the frequent question "When will airline X release its winter/summer schedule"?

Also, I can't see any Ryanair routes for sale for next summer.

That's why MOL was mentioning September 2018. However, most airlines release flights 360 days in advance. Try BA, for example.

[inOban]

I think only longhaul legacy carriers do. The European shorthaul LCCs operate to a much shorter, more flexible timescale.

[fairflyer]

I think only longhaul legacy carriers do. The European shorthaul LCCs operate to a much shorter, more flexible timescale.

Yes, however, the schedule planning kicks off well over a year ahead of release of schedules - in many cases up to 18 months ahead of first flight.

[inOban]

Planning yes, release no. And with the uncertainty over Italia, there must be some short-term contingency planning going on...

[virginblue]

I think only longhaul legacy carriers do. The European shorthaul LCCs operate to a much shorter, more flexible timescale.

Almost all non-LCC do.

LCCs tend to open bookings later, but not much more. Ryanair and Eurowings most recently opened booking for winter 17/18 in early March, i.e. 7 1/2 months before. easyjet in the past up to 11 months. However, they do not start scheduling only a week before they open bookings.

[racedo]

Twitter user who made anonymous bomb threat against Ryanair must pay ?200k in damages - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/twitter-user-who-made-anonymous-bomb-threat-against-ryanair-must-pay-200k-in-damages-35932480.html)

Nice win here and Twitter user should now be on US No Fly list so guess he will never get to Europe.

[AerRyan]

Always have QM2!

[racedo]

Always have QM2!

Lol
After paying that fare even the Woolwich Ferry would be expensive............

[AerRyan]

Not as expensive as the settlement they have to pay Ryanair!

I love outcomes like this, people get away with too much.

[PAXboy]

Interesting:
Ryanair wins £220,000 from Twitter user who posted terror threat | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair-bomb-threat-terror-twitter-brian-lake-pennsylvania-extortion-a7841446.html)
Every character in Brian Lake’s 130-character tweet has cost him £1,700

[Metro man]

£55 000 in costs and legal fees for Ryanair. A worthwhile investment, assuming it won't be recovered, even if it only makes one other idiot think twice from pulling a stunt like this.

This amount pales in comparison to the cost of a real incident with aircraft grounded and massive disruptions.

Definitely a new addition to the no fly list.

[Sober Lark]

Bad publicity on Ryanair's random seat fiasco must be generating a lot of negative energy for them and hurting their brand. Wish it wasn't the case.

[AerRyan]

Ah here, have you seen the 'bad publicity' (AKA O'Learys good publicity) Ryanair has had through the years?

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Bad publicity on Ryanair's random seat fiasco must be generating a lot of negative energy for them and hurting their brand. Wish it wasn't the case.

It's been in the media for around 6 weeks and now sign of slowing down and they appear to be getting more irritated when been questioned about it by media or even people online.

[barrymah]

Yesterday on an Irish radio programme RyR's statement was -

"the reason there are no "good" seats is they are booked (from 2€, repeated several times in the press release) other seats are allocated "randomly"

So, as expected, if you buy you get what you want, if you don't buy you get allocated randomly...

Move on, nothing to see here.

[GavinC]

Yesterday on an Irish radio programme RyR's statement was -

"the reason there are no "good" seats is they are booked (from 2€, repeated several times in the press release) other seats are allocated "randomly"

So, as expected, if you buy you get what you want, if you don't buy you get allocated randomly...

Move on, nothing to see here.



Except that's not true. They don't allocate randomly. They allocate you deliberately into poor seats, close together, usually the middle of the three. There is nothing 'random' about it.


On my last two flights, i saw a large number of people simply swapping seats once everyone was on to sit next to the people they were flying with. At some point it's surely going to cost Ryanair time and therefore money.

[LGS6753]

With EasyJet having acquired a licence in Austria, will Ryanair acquire a UK licence in preparation for Brexit, or do they already have one (Buzz)?

[LTNman]

They have used London European Airways when they took over that airline and kept its name.

[EI-BUD]

Ryanair established a UK subsidiary called Ryanair UK in the 1990s to operate Glasgow Prestwick to London Stansted to circumvent the restrictions placed upon a non UK airline operating domestically inside the UK.... not sure if that company is defunct or not....?

[inOban]

MOL won't like having to pay UK NI and such taxes. His business model depends on pretending that all his employees work in Ireland, even if they never go there. At least Easyjet hires all its staff under local terms.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

MOL won't like having to pay UK NI and such taxes. His business model depends on pretending that all his employees work in Ireland, even if they never go there. At least Easyjet hires all its staff under local terms.

From what I gather most UK based staff pay UK taxes already and not Irish ones......

[inOban]

They'll pay UK income tax, but what about national insurance, esp. the employer's contribution? And how much does FR have to contribute to the pension scheme?

[pamann]

Possible tie up with Primera Air for their transatlantic routes ex STN...? Would make sense
Thoughts?

[barrymah]

Except that's not true. They don't allocate randomly. They allocate you deliberately into poor seats, close together, usually the middle of the three. There is nothing 'random' about it.


On my last two flights, i saw a large number of people simply swapping seats once everyone was on to sit next to the people they were flying with. At some point it's surely going to cost Ryanair time and therefore money.

Maybe I was not too clear. The implication of the press release was that the "good" seats are booked by people who pay. The remaining seats are middle, back row, etc., etc. These are allocated on a first come first served basis according to RyR.

However, there are several posts here and there saying that if you check in late, i.e. near the cut off point, you can get the expensive (e.g. leg room, first row) seats which are the slowest sales.

As to swapping seats, there is apparently an issue with this. It is believed that, in the event of an accident, identity is based on the seating data...??

One thing that I read was that allocating a seat to an under age person must be alongside an adult, is that true?

[alm1]

One thing that I read was that allocating a seat to an under age person must be alongside an adult, is that true?

If you have an old booking made before November 2016 without assigned seats for bookings including children then their new seat alocation engine separates you. It can and most likely be in different ends of aircraft.
But they actively call and try to sell you seats in this instance (they offer to get child seat for free wich is not possible on their website for those old bookings).

[virginblue]

CCO O'Brien in today's edition of German broadsheet Süddeutsche: Ryanair has worked out a "Plan B" that will be implemented in September 2018 should no robust Brexit aviation agreement be in place at that point. It would see up to 85 UK based aircraft moved to EU bases. Findling work for them is apparently no problem for Ryanair as Boeing cannot deliver aircraft at the rate Ryanair needs additional capacity. No talk about a Ryanair UK. Rest of the article mainly about Ryanair in Germany (scaling down of Hahn not because of Frankfurt, but Luxemburg, keep Tegel open, let airberlin die, Germany grossly underserved because of Lufthansa).

The article is by Jens Flottau, one of Europe's most respected aviation journalists.

[barrymah]

If you have an old booking made before November 2016 without assigned seats for bookings including children then their new seat alocation engine separates you. It can and most likely be in different ends of aircraft.
But they actively call and try to sell you seats in this instance (they offer to get child seat for free wich is not possible on their website for those old bookings).

I think I saw somewhere that, for security reasons, under age children must be alongside an adult. RyR doesn't do UMs?

I think the ranter in chief O'Leary said last week that families had to buy seats together, to ensure being seated together, and to avoid breaking security rules?

[skyloone]

Not sure about closing U.K. Ops. Doesn't it account for disproportionately high percentage of revenues? No uk first wave departures at FR's peril.
As to saying Boeing can't deliver ac, Boeing if asked might give you a different reason.

[racedo]

I think I saw somewhere that, for security reasons, under age children must be alongside an adult. RyR doesn't do UMs?

I think the ranter in chief O'Leary said last week that families had to buy seats together, to ensure being seated together, and to avoid breaking security rules?

You cannot buy a ticket for a child under the age of 12 unless you buy a seat for them and 1 person travelling with them.

[inOban]

Only the adult has to pay for their seat. Children will allocated adjacent seats at no charge.

[alm1]

You cannot buy a ticket for a child under the age of 12 unless you buy a seat for them and 1 person travelling with them.

You could in the past and those tickets are still being used.

[racedo]

You could in the past and those tickets are still being used.

Very few are still being used because they introduced free seats from Sept 1st and Summer 2017 seats released at same time.

[Nakata77]

easyJet and Jet2 will be rubbing their hands together in glee at the thought of Ryanair moving 85 aircraft out of the UK.

This is simply Ryanair threatening governments in order to generate media coverage and will be a stupid self-immolation move if they actually were to do it.

[yeo valley]

easyJet and Jet2 will be rubbing their hands together in glee at the thought of Ryanair moving 85 aircraft out of the UK.

This is simply Ryanair threatening governments in order to generate media coverage and will be a stupid self-immolation move if they actually were to do it.

EasyJet are to register 110 aircraft in Austria,they have already started to do this.