Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Ryanair - 9

Old 21st Sep 2013, 20:01
  #1361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 288
MOL is on record as saying this was going to happen. A reading suggestion :
" Ryanair: How a Small Irish Airline Conquered Europe [Paperback]
Siobhan Creaton (Author) " It's not actually a u-turn, it's been expected internally for about a decade, the timing was the only issue they weren't sure of.
He went on record as saying Ryanair would have to change from when he retired around 2011 to a different model, given retirement on hold for years then will have to change with him there. Not sure I have read another airline boss being open about their personality failures but he did.

As said before FR have reinvented themselves a couple of times and will continue to do so because thats what you need to do to survive, doing it publicly means you get regularly appraised.
racedo is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2013, 20:22
  #1362 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 288
Interesting that the board said "Board had brought forward the recommendation to reward, retain and incentivise selected senior employees and directors."

yet the same board was accused of 'cronyism"
Ryanair is warned over danger of 'crony' board - Independent.ie
Board of Directors Manifest ? The Proxy Voting Agency

Interesting that they claim lack of international directors while all of their directors seem to from the UK............
racedo is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 09:02
  #1363 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 67
Posts: 3,051
In the unlikely event that this is carried through, and I think it's just marketing hype as usual from the master of sleight of mouth, it will end up costing the company money. So many people object to flying with them and only do so 'under duress' because they seem cheap. As soon as that price gap narrows as costs are passed on to punters, passenger numbers will drop.
currently there is only one airline in Europe that i refuse point blank to fly with and that is Ryanair and its not because i feel they are in anyway unsafe in fact the reverse is true.
Ditto, but I have concerns about their safety despite their currently almost unblemished record.

Just spotted this :

Ryanair boss O'Leary throws down gauntlet to BA with plan for 6.30 flights to the US | This is Money

Last edited by Capetonian; 22nd Sep 2013 at 09:15.
Capetonian is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 10:01
  #1364 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 1,950
When questioned about the morale of his staff, he told delegates: 'Morale among my staff has never been higher. Anyone who questions that gets beaten until the morale improves.'
That's a classic.
TSR2 is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 10:18
  #1365 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 766
It doesn't have to cost that much money - how much money does it cost to raise a smile for instance, or show a bit of compassion once in a while?

I think this needs to be a bit of short term pain for long term gain; there's a reason why Southwest Airlines have been profitable for so long.

The foundations built by Ryanair, in my opinion, are unstable and unsustainable. Although the biggest competitive force is price, you cannot continue to antagonise your customers and staff. You cannot afford to put passengers off because of reputation - that will cost you money.
Dannyboy39 is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 10:26
  #1366 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 67
Posts: 3,051
....... how much money does it cost to raise a smile for instance, or show a bit of compassion once in a while?
Nothing ........ but where it's going to cost money is when they stop charging 40 to print a boarding pass, or 160 if it's a family of four, or when they stop charging 50 to check in a bag that's a millimetre too big, or whatever it is for a bag that's 500 grams overweight, or when they stop trying to sell scratchcards on the flights. Then the staff start to lose their bonuses for 'extra ancillary income' and they are going to be miserable and those smiles won't be there.
Capetonian is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 20:47
  #1367 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 84
Staff do not earn any type of bonus or commission as far as I know.
EZY7117LPL is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 20:53
  #1368 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 288
Nothing ........ but where it's going to cost money is when they stop charging 40 to print a boarding pass, or 160 if it's a family of four, or when they stop charging 50 to check in a bag that's a millimetre too big, or whatever it is for a bag that's 500 grams overweight, or when they stop trying to sell scratchcards on the flights. Then the staff start to lose their bonuses for 'extra ancillary income' and they are going to be miserable and those smiles won't be there.
Think they make SFA from it because whole issue of charging was to change culture of people just turning up and queueing.............pretty much worked as well.
racedo is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 21:01
  #1369 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 67
Posts: 3,051
I read somewhere not long ago that they are incentivised to charge people and to raise extra revenue for on-board sales. I can't remember where it was, it may have been here, that someone published an internal document which made reference to this policy.
Capetonian is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 21:19
  #1370 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,396
Staff definitely gain one very big thing by levying charges for things like having 2 pieces of hand luggage.... the power trip !

Just think of the scene - someone frantically repacking their luggage next to the gate on the floor and (by virtue of lack of space) having to kneel at the feet of someone who's been enforcing the rules while one of their kids says they need the toilet... if that's not a (evil) power trip then I don't know what is

Last edited by davidjohnson6; 22nd Sep 2013 at 21:20.
davidjohnson6 is online now  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 21:22
  #1371 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,348
Nothing ........ but where it's going to cost money is when they stop charging 40 to print a boarding pass, or 160 if it's a family of four, or when they stop charging 50 to check in a bag that's a millimetre too big, or whatever it is for a bag that's 500 grams overweight, or when they stop trying to sell scratchcards on the flights. Then the staff start to lose their bonuses for 'extra ancillary income' and they are going to be miserable and those smiles won't be there
I don't see why people "forget" or "can't" print out boarding passes, its not rocket science and not the hardest thing to do. There is no excuses for not having them and its made crystal clear when booking that it needs to be done. If the majority of passengers can follow rules why can't everybody. You don't leave your house without a passport (some fools do) but its fine for some passengers to leave without there boarding card.

If you book rail tickets, you don't turn up to stations without tickets printed or your reservation number. You learn how to read in life so the minority of passengers who fail to follow T&C's should pay a heavy price for mistakes.

If FR reduce charges or relax charges for peoples mistakes, everybody will be paying through higher fares. FR will make back all the money they could lose by becoming more customer friendly. I believe the boarding card fees should stay and even be increased more as once they become high enough people won't forget things.
Jamie2k9 is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 21:29
  #1372 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 67
Posts: 3,051
I don't see why people "forget" or "can't" print out boarding passes, its not rocket science and not the hardest thing to do
Someone answered that quite eloquently on another thread. Anyone can make a mistake - except Jamie2k9 perhaps. What about people who are old and not computer savvy, or simply don't have access to a computer and printer whilst on holiday? What about people who lose their documents (or they are eaten by the dog!) or just got wet in the rain?

You're in favour of 'fining' people or making them pay punitive charges for their mistakes. That sums up the attitude of Ryanair and is precisely why so many people refuse to travel with them.
Capetonian is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 21:33
  #1373 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 169
There is a balancing act on the fees, charge too high and people won't forget, hence regular ticket prices must go up to make for lost revenues, charge too little and you must raise ticket prices to make up lost revenues. Problem for Ryanair is that a large part of their revenues come from those fees, so much so that if you were to remove the fees all together, Ryanair would be loss making. The average ticket price multiplied by the number of passengers is less than total expenses of the airline, in other words it costs more to Ryanair to run services than they make just from ticket revenues alone. Not a great position to be in, but hey, it's worked so far.

Last edited by Aerlingus231; 22nd Sep 2013 at 21:35.
Aerlingus231 is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 21:53
  #1374 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,348
Someone answered that quite eloquently on another thread. Anyone can make a mistake - except Jamie2k9 perhaps. What about people who are old and not computer savvy, or simply don't have access to a computer and printer whilst on holiday? What about people who lose their documents (or they are eaten by the dog!) or just got wet in the rain?

You're in favour of 'fining' people or making them pay punitive charges for their mistakes. That sums up the attitude of Ryanair and is precisely why so many people refuse to travel with them.
Everyone can makes mistakes but some mistakes are more costly. Don't use *old people" as an excuse, if they can't use a computer who booked the flights, the person who booked them should of printed them out. Not have access to a computer on holidays just doesn't happen. Majority hotel has computers and internet cafes are all over the main areas. Your using excuses and I don't even need to give an answer to the rain excuse.

I expect if FR released the stats for people who forget to do it, a certain profile of passenger/s would be a regular occurrence. We are talking at most a couple of thousand out of 80 million passengers. It does not happen very often.

Last edited by Jamie2k9; 22nd Sep 2013 at 21:53.
Jamie2k9 is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 22:11
  #1375 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 288
What about people who are old and not computer savvy, or simply don't have access to a computer and printer whilst on holiday?
How did they book in the first place ?

Given 99%+ plus actually book on line then it kind of gets puzzling how if they could safely book online then how come its hard to check in. Remember the oft published Daily Mail ones are NOT about people who COULDN'T check in there are about people who DIDN'T. Really big difference.

I have probably not travelled as much as you Cape but I do know that I have never struggled to find an internet cafe or a hotel willing to help out even when in Japan in the boonies I spoke no Japanese but did enough to get access to a computer.

I know an elderly couple in mid 80's who fly quite a lot using every airline and I offered once to help if ever needed on checking in ................now they pretty much keep themselves to themselves but they use Library, 4 other neighbours in same street and kids abroad who check them in and post the tickets. They don't posess a credit card or debit card.
racedo is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 22:18
  #1376 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 288
There is a balancing act on the fees, charge too high and people won't forget, hence regular ticket prices must go up to make for lost revenues, charge too little and you must raise ticket prices to make up lost revenues. Problem for Ryanair is that a large part of their revenues come from those fees, so much so that if you were to remove the fees all together, Ryanair would be loss making.
Afraid that is plain wrong.

Numbers not checking in online is minor.

Ryanair earn 1/4 of revenue from add ons and that includes Insurance / Food / Luggage / Car Rental / Bus Tickets / etc etc Prob Food / Car Hire and Bags are major part. I see little chance in % of revenue.

Having got off Ryanair flight at Shannon about 6 years ago and made way to Hertz office after collecting buggy, no other flights in but 16 people pretty much all off same flight in front of me give an idea of how important it is to Hertz.
racedo is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 22:31
  #1377 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 288
Staff definitely gain one very big thing by levying charges for things like having 2 pieces of hand luggage.... the power trip !

Just think of the scene - someone frantically repacking their luggage next to the gate on the floor and (by virtue of lack of space) having to kneel at the feet of someone who's been enforcing the rules while one of their kids says they need the toilet... if that's not a (evil) power trip then I don't know what is
DJ

Got 2 littlies and have pretty much travelled all across Europe on airlines when freetime allows and can honestly say that I have met with incredible courtesy, helpfulness and support with many staff going out of way to help. Remember most aren't employed anyway by the airlines.

Few power hungry people have been met because you know what, most people go to work to do a good job, some hate the job but most don't. Its a living and no different from me and you, occasional idiots found but hell you can find that on here.

Shock in one country was when only having one littlie and getting pushed at an airport to front of Immigration queue as were all parents with young kids. Its something they do as witnessed it since and made it easier for everyone.
UK BA could learn a lesson as I stated on Stansted thread.
racedo is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 23:47
  #1378 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Spain
Age: 79
Posts: 487
It's a bit more complicated that 'just' making Ryanair more user-friendly. Whether MOL said so at the shareholders meeting I don't know - he probably did - but a number of things have come together to reduce Ryanair's profits: there is now Europe-wide competition from High Speed Trains - something he did foresee; fuel prices are going through the roof - and 45 percent of Ryanair's costs go on fuel; their aircraft are ageing - higher maintenance costs; and finally Ryanair's real ticket prices are beginning to approach those of its low cost competitors. Ryanair are still making a respectable profit but shareholders are notoriously fickle about these things and will jump ship if a whiff of a drop in profits is in the air. It'll be some years before we've seen the last of Ryanair though. MOL must be thinking of retirement - he's a wealthy man after all - but it is clear that he likes a challenge, and to about-turn the Ryanair image and say 'sucks boo to you, of course we can become customer-friendly' must tickle him no end. He is, first and foremost, a very shrewd entertainer. Still, he may have had enough. We shall see. Just to be straight, I have no problem with Ryanair and use then regularly. He once said that Ryanair is just a bus serves, and that's what it is - a very efficient and safe one, and I have no problem with that at all. No - I don't work for them and sympathise with the poor work culture, but there is still enough work out there for those who don't like it to walk - as I'm sure many do.

Last edited by Sunnyjohn; 22nd Sep 2013 at 23:49. Reason: typo
Sunnyjohn is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2013, 23:55
  #1379 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London, UK & Europe
Posts: 2

It was probably posted before but that's how you avoid extra charges.
j636 is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2013, 06:22
  #1380 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 67
Posts: 3,051
......... if they could safely book online then how come its hard to check in.
I have probably not travelled as much as you Cape but I do know that I have never struggled to find an internet cafe or a hotel willing to help out .........
Everyone can makes mistakes but some mistakes are more costly. Don't use *old people" as an excuse, if they can't use a computer who booked the flights, the person who booked them should of printed them out. Not have access to a computer on holidays just doesn't happen. Majority hotel has computers and internet cafes are all over the main areas. Your using excuses and I don't even need to give an answer to the rain excuse.
These remarks illustrate the philosophy that makes Ryanair so hated. I know that 80 million people a year travel with them and that they carry more pax than any other airline, but that doesn't mean that all those people love the airline, nor does it take into account those who hate it enough that they won't ever use it.

Whether you concur or not I go back to the example of older people who are not as computer literate as the younger ones, or people who simply are not used to technology. The Ryanair credo makes no allowance for such people and charges them an exorbitant fee which does not represent the cost, it's a penalty, or a revenue raising ploy.

I too have never struggled to find an internet cafe but that doesn't mean to say that everyone else will be as fortunate. My remark about the rain was as flippant as the one about the dog, but such things do happen.

An airline which makes no allowance for error and treats people in this way should be shunned, and clearly is by many. On the subject of margins of error, Ryanair operate to the legal minima in respect of fuel uplifts. When something goes wrong, they expect special treatment. I understand that this is safety related whereas printing a boarding pass isn't but don't you think their passengers deserve a little comprehension when something goes wrong instead of being hammered with a massive penalty by someone on a power/bullying trip?

Clearly not, and I'm so glad that there are choices, because I will never fly Ryanair.
Capetonian is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.