Ryanair - 9
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The incident regarding Dr Sattar was shocking to the extreme and will surely be followed by a tabloid frenzy pointing out the deep flaws within the customer care structure at Ryanair. A structure established top - down.
Unforgiveable and particularly when you realise that Dr Sattar fully explained to RYR staff in Dublin why he needed to re-book.
Unforgiveable and particularly when you realise that Dr Sattar fully explained to RYR staff in Dublin why he needed to re-book.
The difference is that whereas I had, and allowed my staff, the discretion to make judgements and waive charges in cases where there appeared to be a genuine hardship or other motivation, I am quite sure that Ryanair's staff/agents did not have that discretion and that is a fundamental flaw in their culture.
That said, like pretty much everything else to do with Ryanair, it stinks. There I agree with you.
Last edited by Capetonian; 20th Sep 2013 at 15:06.
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One good reason or more
To be CEO of Europe.s largest airline? By pax, flights and fleet?
With cash to launch a brand new Transatlantic carrier , ???
Just a thought, not too serious but WW might want to be the King of Europe rather than the King of west Drayton, ok it will take a few more years
To grow FR but WW as you say has a good record , agreed
With cash to launch a brand new Transatlantic carrier , ???
Just a thought, not too serious but WW might want to be the King of Europe rather than the King of west Drayton, ok it will take a few more years
To grow FR but WW as you say has a good record , agreed
Last edited by Hangar6; 20th Sep 2013 at 15:22.
Smells like a new regime is on the way?
Bets on WW anyone?
Bets on WW anyone?
Fr has constantly changed in last 20 years, its just another phase.
What would MO'L do ? He would be bored silly raising cattle and go to the races.
Reckon he we go around 2020 after new fleet is in.
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MOL
Mmm , well he will be the big cheese on the guest speaker list
Of every business conference forever when he does go...
Now that is a role he would suit and I think, yes knowing him as I do,
He would find a certain pleasure in telling any audience of his success, .
But he really does love horse races ...nope this is the beginning of the end, hey he has earned it!
Of every business conference forever when he does go...
Now that is a role he would suit and I think, yes knowing him as I do,
He would find a certain pleasure in telling any audience of his success, .
But he really does love horse races ...nope this is the beginning of the end, hey he has earned it!
Yes but ........ I'm not defending Ryanair, I loathe and despise their modus operandum and culture, however, having supervised ticket desks at international airports, I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end about the depths to which people will sink, telling the most appalling lies, to avoid paying reissue fees and so on. Anyone who has worked in a similar position will understand this.
The difference is that whereas I had, and allowed my staff, the discretion to make judgements and waive charges in cases where there appeared to be a genuine hardship or other motivation, I am quite sure that Ryanair's staff/agents did not have that discretion and that is a fundamental flaw in their culture.
The difference is that whereas I had, and allowed my staff, the discretion to make judgements and waive charges in cases where there appeared to be a genuine hardship or other motivation, I am quite sure that Ryanair's staff/agents did not have that discretion and that is a fundamental flaw in their culture.
On the morning in question the news that the family had died and what had occurred was pretty limited.......he told of fire at 3am, he was informed as he was in the aiport that they had died just before 5.30am, flight at 6.30am. Its kind of hard for airport staff to know if it had really happened because news was limited.
Flagging it up earlier would have been a better idea, should have happened but dammed if they do dammed if they don't.
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Capetonian
however, having supervised ticket desks at international airports, I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end about the depths to which people will sink, telling the most appalling lies, to avoid paying reissue fees and so on. Anyone who has worked in a similar position will understand this.
Paxing All Over The World
Yes, people lie all the time and, until they prove that they have not, the company is entitled to pursue it's charges.
With regards to the subject matter I suggest that this is NOT the beginning of the end of MoL. He will continue until he is ousted or he dies in harness. He cannot help himself, he has to continue.
Will this change anything? Not in the first year. You try changing a culture that has been built into every brick of the company for some 25 years. It will require an enormous effort by mgmt, they will have to define new rules and then ensure they do not get an overs wing of behaviour that costs a fortune.
FR was always going to reach the point at which it reached a natural plateau of income. Most companies take 50 years to reach that - he has arrived there sooner than others and all credit to him.
By the way, Europe is in the middle of the deepest recession since the depression.
With regards to the subject matter I suggest that this is NOT the beginning of the end of MoL. He will continue until he is ousted or he dies in harness. He cannot help himself, he has to continue.
Will this change anything? Not in the first year. You try changing a culture that has been built into every brick of the company for some 25 years. It will require an enormous effort by mgmt, they will have to define new rules and then ensure they do not get an overs wing of behaviour that costs a fortune.
FR was always going to reach the point at which it reached a natural plateau of income. Most companies take 50 years to reach that - he has arrived there sooner than others and all credit to him.
By the way, Europe is in the middle of the deepest recession since the depression.
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Ryanair to be " nicer" to customers
From the Telegraph
So it was quite a surprise to hear him tell shareholders at yesterday’s AGM in Dublin: “We should try to eliminate things that unnecessarily p--- people off.”
Indeed, coming from the man who once derided passengers as “idiots” if they forgot to print their boarding passes – a milder turn of phrase than he employed to describe overweight passengers – this was a truly Damascene conversion.
During his long and brilliant career at the helm of Ryanair, Mr O’Leary has not often been forced on to the defensive. His famous mantra was: “People say the customer is always right, but you know what they’re not. Sometimes they are wrong and they need to be told so.”
But yesterday, with several shareholders complaining that poor customer service was hitting sales, and with the recent, unexpected profits warning – the first in nearly a decade – fresh in everyone’s minds, he was on the back foot.
Envious glances are being cast at easyJet, which has rediscovered its mojo under Carolyn McCall. She has repositioned the airline as a more customer-friendly, upmarket rival to Ryanair and her next pitch will be for the lucrative business travel market.
Some are asking whether the buccaneering guerilla warfare tactics that served Mr O’Leary so well on his ascent are appropriate now he is running Europe’s biggest airline.
His promise to overhaul its website, set up a new team to respond to emails and stop fining customers whose carry-on baggage exceeds minimum sizes by a matter of millimetres is hardly a radical manifesto for change. As he admitted, “a lot of those customer services elements don’t cost a lot of money”. But they are the first signs of a new, customer-friendly strategy.
Does this prove that the customer is always king and you can only get away with insulting your passengers for so long?
The jury is still out on that point. With the company’s share price down 4pc this month and passenger numbers down for the autumn, Mr O’Leary needs to be seen to be steering a different course.
It could be that, with the economy on an upward trajectory and a bit more money in people’s pockets, passengers are prepared to spend a little more for a higher standard of customer service. The days when rock-bottom fares were the only game in town could be coming to an end.
But Mr O’Leary, who once observed that “Germans will crawl naked over broken glass to get low fares”, will take some persuading.
So is it in Ryanair to be nice?
Having worked for Ryanair for many years I think the company has to change to survive. The problem for Ryanair is the competition are beginning to match the fairs of Ryanair but are doing it in a way that makes flying less of a trauma. I have been at the gate of Ryanair flights boarding for years and I have seen the way passengers have been treated. I have been deeply embarrassed to be part of the company on some occasions.
For example
The 52-year-old surgeon, who worked in Dublin, was woken at 3am last Friday and told it was likely his wife and three children had died in a fire at their home in Leicester.
Upon arriving at Dublin Airport at around 5:30am, Dr Taufiq Sattar was called by Leicester Police and told all of his family members had perished in the fire. Visibly distressed, he explained to the Ryanair check-in desk why he wanted to change his 9.40pm flight to East Midlands Airport to the 6.30am flight to Birmingham, and was told he would need to pay €187.46 (around £158) for the single fare.
Michael O Leary apologized today for the event. He said it should not have happened. However in Ryanair ground staff do not have the authority to show compassion or discretion. Michael O Leary is very well aware that this is exactly what should have happened if ground staff follow his and his executives instructions. To say anything else is disingenuous.
So the question is, can Ryanair achieve the CEO's vision of a kinder, gentler airline with the current management structure? I think not. While Michael O Leary should stay, those under him that know nothing else but ( as a shareholder put it today) a macho culture have to make way. Every company from time to time has to reinvent itself and refresh its management, why should Ryanair be different. Michael bred his executives to be this way. As a horse man Michael should know that you can't put a flat horse over jumps.
One word of advice, pay peanuts, get monkeys. If you need customer service, you need motivated, happy staff. Slashing staff costs over the last few years may have resulted in exceptional bonuses for the few, but today I think you are beginning to see the true cost of such short sightings.
So it was quite a surprise to hear him tell shareholders at yesterday’s AGM in Dublin: “We should try to eliminate things that unnecessarily p--- people off.”
Indeed, coming from the man who once derided passengers as “idiots” if they forgot to print their boarding passes – a milder turn of phrase than he employed to describe overweight passengers – this was a truly Damascene conversion.
During his long and brilliant career at the helm of Ryanair, Mr O’Leary has not often been forced on to the defensive. His famous mantra was: “People say the customer is always right, but you know what they’re not. Sometimes they are wrong and they need to be told so.”
But yesterday, with several shareholders complaining that poor customer service was hitting sales, and with the recent, unexpected profits warning – the first in nearly a decade – fresh in everyone’s minds, he was on the back foot.
Envious glances are being cast at easyJet, which has rediscovered its mojo under Carolyn McCall. She has repositioned the airline as a more customer-friendly, upmarket rival to Ryanair and her next pitch will be for the lucrative business travel market.
Some are asking whether the buccaneering guerilla warfare tactics that served Mr O’Leary so well on his ascent are appropriate now he is running Europe’s biggest airline.
His promise to overhaul its website, set up a new team to respond to emails and stop fining customers whose carry-on baggage exceeds minimum sizes by a matter of millimetres is hardly a radical manifesto for change. As he admitted, “a lot of those customer services elements don’t cost a lot of money”. But they are the first signs of a new, customer-friendly strategy.
Does this prove that the customer is always king and you can only get away with insulting your passengers for so long?
The jury is still out on that point. With the company’s share price down 4pc this month and passenger numbers down for the autumn, Mr O’Leary needs to be seen to be steering a different course.
It could be that, with the economy on an upward trajectory and a bit more money in people’s pockets, passengers are prepared to spend a little more for a higher standard of customer service. The days when rock-bottom fares were the only game in town could be coming to an end.
But Mr O’Leary, who once observed that “Germans will crawl naked over broken glass to get low fares”, will take some persuading.
So is it in Ryanair to be nice?
Having worked for Ryanair for many years I think the company has to change to survive. The problem for Ryanair is the competition are beginning to match the fairs of Ryanair but are doing it in a way that makes flying less of a trauma. I have been at the gate of Ryanair flights boarding for years and I have seen the way passengers have been treated. I have been deeply embarrassed to be part of the company on some occasions.
For example
The 52-year-old surgeon, who worked in Dublin, was woken at 3am last Friday and told it was likely his wife and three children had died in a fire at their home in Leicester.
Upon arriving at Dublin Airport at around 5:30am, Dr Taufiq Sattar was called by Leicester Police and told all of his family members had perished in the fire. Visibly distressed, he explained to the Ryanair check-in desk why he wanted to change his 9.40pm flight to East Midlands Airport to the 6.30am flight to Birmingham, and was told he would need to pay €187.46 (around £158) for the single fare.
Michael O Leary apologized today for the event. He said it should not have happened. However in Ryanair ground staff do not have the authority to show compassion or discretion. Michael O Leary is very well aware that this is exactly what should have happened if ground staff follow his and his executives instructions. To say anything else is disingenuous.
So the question is, can Ryanair achieve the CEO's vision of a kinder, gentler airline with the current management structure? I think not. While Michael O Leary should stay, those under him that know nothing else but ( as a shareholder put it today) a macho culture have to make way. Every company from time to time has to reinvent itself and refresh its management, why should Ryanair be different. Michael bred his executives to be this way. As a horse man Michael should know that you can't put a flat horse over jumps.
One word of advice, pay peanuts, get monkeys. If you need customer service, you need motivated, happy staff. Slashing staff costs over the last few years may have resulted in exceptional bonuses for the few, but today I think you are beginning to see the true cost of such short sightings.
Following on from the news that these cowboys charged a poor man whose entire family had just been murdered in a house fire to change his flights I hope people stop flying with them and they go bust. They are b@stards of the highest order. 
Last edited by Doors to Automatic; 20th Sep 2013 at 20:24.
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Proffit warning
I did flag up the fact the Ryanair had announced a Proffit warning over the next few months, the speculation was that customer dissatisfaction was at the root of this, the thread vanished and I put is down to the Pprune managements paranoia of all things Ryanair.
Clearly the message has hit home at Ryanair HQ and resulted in a change of direction in the way they feel they must treat their diminishing customer base.
Clearly the message has hit home at Ryanair HQ and resulted in a change of direction in the way they feel they must treat their diminishing customer base.
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Aw c'mon Doors to Auto, say what you mean 
Hoping this thread lasts a bit longer than the previous 2, as it is . . a fairly big piece of news when a 300 aircraft airline suddenly wakens up to the Millions of Joe Publics' views.
Nothing derisory/libellous here, as you stated, they have not been known for their kindheartedness, so any change will be to their benefit just as much as their clients.
As stated though, Micky Boy can change like an Eel, but will some of the "Rock Apes" he appointed find the ability to change
methinks that is the problem.
Hoping this thread lasts a bit longer than the previous 2, as it is . . a fairly big piece of news when a 300 aircraft airline suddenly wakens up to the Millions of Joe Publics' views.
Nothing derisory/libellous here, as you stated, they have not been known for their kindheartedness, so any change will be to their benefit just as much as their clients.
As stated though, Micky Boy can change like an Eel, but will some of the "Rock Apes" he appointed find the ability to change
methinks that is the problem.
Last edited by captplaystation; 20th Sep 2013 at 20:57.
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Based on Ryanair's past record and modus operandi, I am guessing that they will probably apply an additional charge "for being nice" to their clients. I wonder whether it would be a 'per word' charge or a cumulative charge 'per act' of kindness?
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The only thing which motivates O'Leary is money. The fact that unless he changes his ways he will start to make less is the only thing that will motivate him to make that change.
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Ryanair to seek shareholder approval for bumper bonus scheme - Tourism News | Travel & Tourism Industry News | The Irish Times - Mon, Sep 16, 2013
5% of the current shares .....to be nice ...
5% of the current shares .....to be nice ...
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Please remember, that many good hard working people work for Ryanair, they have mortgages and a family to pay for, they have no say in how this company operates. wishing the company goes belly up does not help them, and can in some cases can be distressing.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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Too little and too late. It won't change my mind about using RYR, but long may they continue to exist. After all, I get to fly on much better carriers at very competitive fares 
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MOL is on record as saying this was going to happen. A reading suggestion :
" Ryanair: How a Small Irish Airline Conquered Europe [Paperback]
Siobhan Creaton (Author) " It's not actually a u-turn, it's been expected internally for about a decade, the timing was the only issue they weren't sure of.
" Ryanair: How a Small Irish Airline Conquered Europe [Paperback]
Siobhan Creaton (Author) " It's not actually a u-turn, it's been expected internally for about a decade, the timing was the only issue they weren't sure of.
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donniedarko
Ryanair to seek shareholder approval for bumper bonus scheme - Tourism News | Travel & Tourism Industry News | The Irish Times - Mon, Sep 16, 2013
5% of the current shares .....to be nice ...
Ryanair to seek shareholder approval for bumper bonus scheme - Tourism News | Travel & Tourism Industry News | The Irish Times - Mon, Sep 16, 2013
5% of the current shares .....to be nice ...
Over 33% of Ryanair shareholders oppose new incentive plan | 20 September 2013 | Stock Market Wire
Last edited by Aldente; 21st Sep 2013 at 07:28.