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EXE-NCE/BCN indeed bookable, with very attractive pricing (potentially error fares): EXE-NCE one-way just under £24 on most dates.
EDIT 14SEP: £24 flights have gone, now more usual FlyBE prices.
EDIT 14SEP: £24 flights have gone, now more usual FlyBE prices.
Last edited by insuindi; 14th Sep 2012 at 16:31.
Spandex - Belfast, Birmingham and Manchester, summer-only Jersey, codeshare on AF to Paris-CDG and a franchise on Loganair to the islands ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 15th Sep 2012 at 10:51.
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Surely the BCN route from SOU is a no brainer for BE now? The 90 pax it is currently getting would fit very well on the 195 3 times a week. Surely the market has been tested now? Going to hazard a guess that BE carry on ignoring this obvious route as they have done since 2004 though!
Newsflash BE, if you have a monopoly build on it, spreading yourself thin in a foolish attempt to put your fingers in every pie leads to all the bricks tumbling down
. Route/ fleet reductions and whoring yourself out to flag carriers anyone? 
Newsflash BE, if you have a monopoly build on it, spreading yourself thin in a foolish attempt to put your fingers in every pie leads to all the bricks tumbling down
. Route/ fleet reductions and whoring yourself out to flag carriers anyone?
Last edited by Rivet Joint; 17th Sep 2012 at 21:10.
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Flybe cannot win, either they are getting stick for having a monopoly or being told to exploit it.
With respect Rivetjoint, Vueling have not yet confirmed they are not returning next year. Also, 90 passenger may have been an average but whats the yield? If BE have to sell every seat for £40 they are not going to want to do the route as it simply would not pay for itself let alone make any profit.
Flybe have not done badly out of Southampton, and likewise Southampton and its residents have not done badly out of Flybe. It remains one of the largest stations and I am sure those responsible for routes know far more of what they are doing than any of us on here.
With respect Rivetjoint, Vueling have not yet confirmed they are not returning next year. Also, 90 passenger may have been an average but whats the yield? If BE have to sell every seat for £40 they are not going to want to do the route as it simply would not pay for itself let alone make any profit.
Flybe have not done badly out of Southampton, and likewise Southampton and its residents have not done badly out of Flybe. It remains one of the largest stations and I am sure those responsible for routes know far more of what they are doing than any of us on here.
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There is still a fair bit of movement in the timetabling for the winter period, now the BHX-STR morning flight has been pushed back by 3h. That makes day returns from STR pretty much impossible.
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BHX
insuindi
I think that is an understatement to say the least, have a look at Aberdeen - Manchester in November, three daily in the week with the reverse MAN-ABZ five daily
ABZ-BHX is now down to 2 x 175 & 2 x Q400 and is now shared with Manchester.
As for STR moving back three hours, as it stands with it linking into the schedule it makes no sense utilisation wise, as the base still requires 9 aircraft unless Stuttgart is reduced to daily and the Hanover is changed to a 175/195.
Once the BHD and EDI 195's arrive back at 10.05 and 10.20 respectively neither fly until the afternoon. The 175 arriving back from GLA at 1000 doesn't fly until 13.05 MXP and the 10.50 DUS until 13.55 DUS.
It looks as if another aircraft is about to be freed up unless it is to arrange a spare for the morning rush, which with Q400's I suppose is wise and they have done this in previous winters.
flybe must know exactly how many passengers use Stuttgart for day trips, as taking the passenger figures in isolation it suggests that daily as a jet would suffice but I assume yields must be good enough to keep it at double daily for so long and they must be confident that the time change won't put business passengers off. I hope they are right and it is not the beginning of the end of this route.
Pete
I think that is an understatement to say the least, have a look at Aberdeen - Manchester in November, three daily in the week with the reverse MAN-ABZ five daily
ABZ-BHX is now down to 2 x 175 & 2 x Q400 and is now shared with Manchester.
As for STR moving back three hours, as it stands with it linking into the schedule it makes no sense utilisation wise, as the base still requires 9 aircraft unless Stuttgart is reduced to daily and the Hanover is changed to a 175/195.
Once the BHD and EDI 195's arrive back at 10.05 and 10.20 respectively neither fly until the afternoon. The 175 arriving back from GLA at 1000 doesn't fly until 13.05 MXP and the 10.50 DUS until 13.55 DUS.
It looks as if another aircraft is about to be freed up unless it is to arrange a spare for the morning rush, which with Q400's I suppose is wise and they have done this in previous winters.
flybe must know exactly how many passengers use Stuttgart for day trips, as taking the passenger figures in isolation it suggests that daily as a jet would suffice but I assume yields must be good enough to keep it at double daily for so long and they must be confident that the time change won't put business passengers off. I hope they are right and it is not the beginning of the end of this route.
Pete
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When it comes to my home airport, I think Flybe are taking the p*ss. Either they serve it properly, or they pull out totally & let the likes of bmir & Eastern serve it with adequate frequencies. I don't think Flybe know what to do when it comes to serving ABZ. Lots of promises down the years, not much action. A familiar tale for many airports served by them.
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Richard, I normally read your posts with interest but your comments are a little juvenile. Flybe serve Aberdeen pretty well all things considering, the only thing to happen recently is that they are pulling the LGW which they have operated for a couple of years. You cannot say they did not give it a proper go.
ABZ are retaining the E175 to continue the BHX route, and MAN remains at a reasonable frequency. ABZ also still has the BHD route, numerous franchise flights with Loganair and a codeshare on the Air France to CDG.
The fact is, they have not released their schedule yet. So it is no good everyone trying to guess what is happening, I mean that is just ridiculous. There could well be new routes planned - nobody was expecting a BCN route to be announced from Exeter. Thats not just a new route but a whole new destination.
Sure BE have said in the past Scandinavia was on the cards as well as a Norwich but it hasnt happened. Times change, and its not as if ABZ do not currently have those destinations served.
Cut them some slack and just be patient. I wouldnt mind betting if Flybe were to ever say right then Aberdeen, time to pull the plug on all our operations there would be tantrums gallore.
ABZ are retaining the E175 to continue the BHX route, and MAN remains at a reasonable frequency. ABZ also still has the BHD route, numerous franchise flights with Loganair and a codeshare on the Air France to CDG.
The fact is, they have not released their schedule yet. So it is no good everyone trying to guess what is happening, I mean that is just ridiculous. There could well be new routes planned - nobody was expecting a BCN route to be announced from Exeter. Thats not just a new route but a whole new destination.
Sure BE have said in the past Scandinavia was on the cards as well as a Norwich but it hasnt happened. Times change, and its not as if ABZ do not currently have those destinations served.
Cut them some slack and just be patient. I wouldnt mind betting if Flybe were to ever say right then Aberdeen, time to pull the plug on all our operations there would be tantrums gallore.
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Winter 2012/3
Cloud1
I am surprised at the amount of changes so close to the winter schedule, it is almost too difficult to keep track off and I sure it is driven by the need to cut costs but I can't remember so much change in such a short space of time.
Prompted by the Gatwick thread it seems that the Jersey based 195 is on its way to Glasgow to operate GLA-SOU with the Glasgow based 175 going to be based in Jersey for the Gatwick service.
I assume that ABZ-MAN is just a glitch and will be sorted after the weekend but do we know if it is reducing to three daily or will it be restored to five?
No more new 175's scheduled as yet after the next one is delivered next week when EDI-SOU changes from the Q400.
Pete
I am surprised at the amount of changes so close to the winter schedule, it is almost too difficult to keep track off and I sure it is driven by the need to cut costs but I can't remember so much change in such a short space of time.
Prompted by the Gatwick thread it seems that the Jersey based 195 is on its way to Glasgow to operate GLA-SOU with the Glasgow based 175 going to be based in Jersey for the Gatwick service.
I assume that ABZ-MAN is just a glitch and will be sorted after the weekend but do we know if it is reducing to three daily or will it be restored to five?
No more new 175's scheduled as yet after the next one is delivered next week when EDI-SOU changes from the Q400.
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We're in the middle of the biggest economic downturn that this (and many other EU) countries have seen, coupled with record fuel prices. In addition, with the new owners at LGW putting huge price rises in for airlines using the airport it is no wonder that you're seeing changes from Flybe (LGW's third largest slot holder) and very little by way of expansion.
All of our purse strings are being tightened through current austerity measures and I think that for many, the priorities have changed. The weekend breaks that many used to take have become disposable to protect the annual summer holiday. This is most likely why Flybe is adjusting services on domestic routes, and looking to operate EXTNCE which has returned, and EXTBCN is which is due to commence.
I can understand that the rhetoric of airlines is to start routes and promise many more but this can only happen if the new routes can be supported and at present, I just don't think they can. If ABZ can't support Flybe on LGW - a very well established route then there certainly isn't the investment there for untried routes.
Richard - this post isn't geared at you personally so please don't take offence. I guess I'm just trying to balance the argument that you and many others support.
What I would say is that when you look at the likes of Ryanair or BMIbaby (RIP) and examine just how many times they started bases (BHD/MME/CWL etc), only to pull them entirely at a later date, at least we can be grateful that Flybe continues to offer local jobs to local people with a good job security in the regions.
All of our purse strings are being tightened through current austerity measures and I think that for many, the priorities have changed. The weekend breaks that many used to take have become disposable to protect the annual summer holiday. This is most likely why Flybe is adjusting services on domestic routes, and looking to operate EXTNCE which has returned, and EXTBCN is which is due to commence.
I can understand that the rhetoric of airlines is to start routes and promise many more but this can only happen if the new routes can be supported and at present, I just don't think they can. If ABZ can't support Flybe on LGW - a very well established route then there certainly isn't the investment there for untried routes.
Richard - this post isn't geared at you personally so please don't take offence. I guess I'm just trying to balance the argument that you and many others support.
What I would say is that when you look at the likes of Ryanair or BMIbaby (RIP) and examine just how many times they started bases (BHD/MME/CWL etc), only to pull them entirely at a later date, at least we can be grateful that Flybe continues to offer local jobs to local people with a good job security in the regions.
Last edited by JobsaGoodun; 22nd Sep 2012 at 23:06.
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OltonPete - many changes being made, and I expect the fact that 4 aircraft are being removed has not helped schedule planning. They obviously work the schedules from the number of aircraft in the fleet so to suddenly be told four are coming out, it may mean things need to be juggled about a bit.
Also, I expect like last year it is BEs intention to operate many more flights on a charter basis to the ski destinations on the jets. With more jets in the fleet there is more opportunity for the airline to go out to the tour operators and get business. Whilst this will only probably affect weekend schedules it is something that I expect is also contributing to a rather messy schedule at the moment.
I have not heard anything on the ABZMAN but I wouldnt be surprised if it went to 3. Most destinations see a reduction due to the winter months, the only difference this year is whether or not this is affected by the fact that Manchester is now a hub.
Time will tell, but IIRC the schedule should be ready by mid-end of October - so only a few more weeks
On a side note, I have to say I am surprised the STR is still around! I dont remember it being overly busy and I would be very shocked if yield was that high in turned over a profit. HAM was binned, overall DUS isnt too bad now its on the jet and the HAJ is quite often busy so I expected STR to go a long time ago myself. Something on that one must be ticking the boxes!
Also, I expect like last year it is BEs intention to operate many more flights on a charter basis to the ski destinations on the jets. With more jets in the fleet there is more opportunity for the airline to go out to the tour operators and get business. Whilst this will only probably affect weekend schedules it is something that I expect is also contributing to a rather messy schedule at the moment.
I have not heard anything on the ABZMAN but I wouldnt be surprised if it went to 3. Most destinations see a reduction due to the winter months, the only difference this year is whether or not this is affected by the fact that Manchester is now a hub.
Time will tell, but IIRC the schedule should be ready by mid-end of October - so only a few more weeks
On a side note, I have to say I am surprised the STR is still around! I dont remember it being overly busy and I would be very shocked if yield was that high in turned over a profit. HAM was binned, overall DUS isnt too bad now its on the jet and the HAJ is quite often busy so I expected STR to go a long time ago myself. Something on that one must be ticking the boxes!
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With all these changes us poor folk here in GCI are still waiting for the E175's. We all know the story of the runway being re done etc... but bring them on ASAP. I'm not too sure by how much but I know the market share has dropped and now Aurigny fly the most passengers. It also does appear that Flybe are having a bit of a fight back though. Lots of adverts in the local press advertising the fact that they are the most ontime airline to london, and lots of advertising else where including the Guernsey Airport Flight Arrivals website. Personally i cant see why locals use Aurginy prices are roughy the same yet in my opinion the Dash is the better option - it's quieter, smoother, quciker normally a 35min flight compared to 50/55mins. And on the return leg when you get to LGW you can check your bags in early, with Aurigny the checkin desk opens 2hours before the flight so if you have just flown in from else where early you cart your luggage around until they open the desk. Also when booking seat allocation is better on flybe you can choose any seat that is available, on the ATR they only let you choose the seats by the wings 1st to trim the AC thats no good if you find that area noisey. On the plus side to Aurigny you do get a free coffee and paper and the staff are more customer based. But if like me you want to book online and go then flybe has to be the airline to choose (unless there is a great price difference). I know flybe look at these posts so i think if you want your market share LGW-GCI to rise bring back the Jet servcie ASAP. I feel Aurigny have 2 advanages at the moment the 1st being with both airlines being so close on price and aircraft type people will always choose the cheapest get the jet on board and i'm sure people will use it and would also still use it if it cost slightly more just to save time. Secondly and this one is based at family travel the whole holiday market has changed people book REALLY early with tour operators and they know to get cheap GCI-LGW connecting flights they have to book those early, on the Aurigny site this can be done 12months in advance flybe 5-8 months. The amount of time i have looked 12 months before our next vacation and nearly booked myself, wife and 2 kids with aurigny just to make sure the seats are cheap not wishing to wait for the flybe prices in case they are more you would not belive - but i always wait and costs are always about the same. But being able to book 1 year ahead should also net more passengers.
Last edited by guern123; 23rd Sep 2012 at 07:28.
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No offence taken chaps & we're allowed to disagree now & then!
I know all airlines do it & I guess it's a sign o' the times, but I get frustrated when airlines say they are expanding at a particular airport when all they've done is stick their flight number on a route operated by another airline & call it a code share, for example. Maybe I'm just old fashioned!
But Flybe have dangled so many carrots at ABZ over the years you could open a vegetable stall!
I know Flybe have tried domestics at ABZ, but the problem has been not at business friendly times - NCL, CWL, SOU & even LBA. Whatever else Aberdeen is, it is very much business orientated (& high yield), & perhaps some airlines cannot grasp the concept of timing their flights accordingly. NCL & SOU came in on mid/late afternoon arrivals for instance, so your businessman/woman couldn't get in a full day's work if they wanted to catch the only rotation of the day offered by Flybe.
NE Scotland & Aberdeen has been just about the only area to be able to continue to grow its economy & this has been reflected at the airport, with consistent growth overall. Of course, I appreciate not all routes grow at the same time.
I just thought Flybe & ABZ were potentially well suited but that potential - especially increasingly routes to Europe, even with a Q400 - has not been fulfilled. Maybe the Flybe business model isn't as well matched to ABZ as I had previously thought.
I know all airlines do it & I guess it's a sign o' the times, but I get frustrated when airlines say they are expanding at a particular airport when all they've done is stick their flight number on a route operated by another airline & call it a code share, for example. Maybe I'm just old fashioned!
But Flybe have dangled so many carrots at ABZ over the years you could open a vegetable stall!
I know Flybe have tried domestics at ABZ, but the problem has been not at business friendly times - NCL, CWL, SOU & even LBA. Whatever else Aberdeen is, it is very much business orientated (& high yield), & perhaps some airlines cannot grasp the concept of timing their flights accordingly. NCL & SOU came in on mid/late afternoon arrivals for instance, so your businessman/woman couldn't get in a full day's work if they wanted to catch the only rotation of the day offered by Flybe.
NE Scotland & Aberdeen has been just about the only area to be able to continue to grow its economy & this has been reflected at the airport, with consistent growth overall. Of course, I appreciate not all routes grow at the same time.
I just thought Flybe & ABZ were potentially well suited but that potential - especially increasingly routes to Europe, even with a Q400 - has not been fulfilled. Maybe the Flybe business model isn't as well matched to ABZ as I had previously thought.
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"On a side note, I have to say I am surprised the STR is still around! I dont remember it being overly busy and I would be very shocked if yield was that high in turned over a profit. HAM was binned, overall DUS isnt too bad now its on the jet and the HAJ is quite often busy so I expected STR to go a long time ago myself. Something on that one must be ticking the boxes! "
The STR-route is a phenomen indeed - double daily for years and that with far fewer pax than on the HAJ routing. Having said that, the STR route has far higher fares, and has a far greater proportion of business travellers (who tend to book quite late, again, even higher fares. HAJ is a lot of army personnel&family/relatives). So STR has fewer pax, but they make up for it...
EDIT: To add to the mystery, individual rotations on the STR morning flight seem now to have disappeared for the last week of the summer schedule.
"On a side note, I have to say I am surprised the STR is still around! I dont remember it being overly busy and I would be very shocked if yield was that high in turned over a profit. HAM was binned, overall DUS isnt too bad now its on the jet and the HAJ is quite often busy so I expected STR to go a long time ago myself. Something on that one must be ticking the boxes! "
The STR-route is a phenomen indeed - double daily for years and that with far fewer pax than on the HAJ routing. Having said that, the STR route has far higher fares, and has a far greater proportion of business travellers (who tend to book quite late, again, even higher fares. HAJ is a lot of army personnel&family/relatives). So STR has fewer pax, but they make up for it...
EDIT: To add to the mystery, individual rotations on the STR morning flight seem now to have disappeared for the last week of the summer schedule.
Last edited by insuindi; 24th Sep 2012 at 14:45.