FlyBe - 6
Join Date: Mar 2004
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I'm not sure apportioning blame at this stage of the game is going to get anyone anywhere...but I wouldn't blame the government. I'd instead blame a business model overly reliant on credit and debit card fee charges for its margins which was never going to be sustainable, and a decision to split the management team and make some highly unsuitable appointments in the core UK business. Neither of those are the government's fault, but if both hadn't happened, the story at Flybe today would be very different indeed. Still, none of that will help those losing jobs.
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I don`t think this is a recent thing Artic Monkey as KLM used to make a lot of them being another London airport as so many pax transfered through there and
that dated back to late 80`s
Chaps
that dated back to late 80`s
Chaps
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Artic Monkey "I'm talking about 01475's post in relation to why AMS is becoming the UK's hub for the regions. APD is killing regional flying in the UK."
APD and it's affect on regional flying in the UK is a problem, but APD is not the reason many people choose foreign hubs rather than UK hubs. There is a common misconception that by transiting through AMS (or any non-UK airport) to long haul destination, it will save on taxes. It does not.
APD is calculated based on final destination, regardless of where a transit may happen. For example, whether you fly MAN-AMS-BKK, MAN-LHR-BKK or MAN-DXB-BKK is irrelevant as APD is payable for the MAN-BKK routing.
The only way to avoid this is by booking the two segments separately, thus paying UK APD only on the first leg to AMS/CDG/FRA etc. But of course doing this leaves you rather exposed to mis-connecting without any support, then having to sort yourself a new flight and the added expense that comes with it, which is highly likely to be far more than any money saved on APD.
KLM serve the UK regions very comprehensively, far more so than BA, Air France or Lufthansa. Plus AMS is a easy transit airport... Makes it a no-brainer for many. APD is a different issue and is unrelated.
Having said that... The lack of understanding of how APD works may well push people to travel via a non-UK hub in the belief they will save on APD, which they in fact will not.
ADP is however a huge issue for domestic airlines as it is chargeable on any flight from a UK airport (with a couple of exceptions I believe) so domestic flights are hit twice, outbound and inbound. It adds £26 to a return fare for every domestic flight.
APD and it's affect on regional flying in the UK is a problem, but APD is not the reason many people choose foreign hubs rather than UK hubs. There is a common misconception that by transiting through AMS (or any non-UK airport) to long haul destination, it will save on taxes. It does not.
APD is calculated based on final destination, regardless of where a transit may happen. For example, whether you fly MAN-AMS-BKK, MAN-LHR-BKK or MAN-DXB-BKK is irrelevant as APD is payable for the MAN-BKK routing.
The only way to avoid this is by booking the two segments separately, thus paying UK APD only on the first leg to AMS/CDG/FRA etc. But of course doing this leaves you rather exposed to mis-connecting without any support, then having to sort yourself a new flight and the added expense that comes with it, which is highly likely to be far more than any money saved on APD.
KLM serve the UK regions very comprehensively, far more so than BA, Air France or Lufthansa. Plus AMS is a easy transit airport... Makes it a no-brainer for many. APD is a different issue and is unrelated.
Having said that... The lack of understanding of how APD works may well push people to travel via a non-UK hub in the belief they will save on APD, which they in fact will not.
ADP is however a huge issue for domestic airlines as it is chargeable on any flight from a UK airport (with a couple of exceptions I believe) so domestic flights are hit twice, outbound and inbound. It adds £26 to a return fare for every domestic flight.
There is an indirect argument that APD pushes certain transfer passengers towards Amsterdam.
Those people travelling domestically in the UK have a choice to either fly, go by train/car or not travel at all. APD will clearly discourage people from flying when their entire journey is within the UK and subject to an APD charge. The result is fewer passengers on these routes, lower demand and likely lower frequency of flights.
If the number of domestic flights is reduced, it becomes harder for places like Birmingham or Manchester to function as connection-friendly airports as they cannot generate domestic feed for long haul carriers so easily.
Long haul carriers thus see BHX / MAN as losing some of their appeal with the reduction in potential feed, while routes to AMS which exist for onward connections of people who cannot easily substitute train for plane are relatively untouched.
APD has naff all effect on connections via Heathrow but it will affect cities like BHX or MAN
Those people travelling domestically in the UK have a choice to either fly, go by train/car or not travel at all. APD will clearly discourage people from flying when their entire journey is within the UK and subject to an APD charge. The result is fewer passengers on these routes, lower demand and likely lower frequency of flights.
If the number of domestic flights is reduced, it becomes harder for places like Birmingham or Manchester to function as connection-friendly airports as they cannot generate domestic feed for long haul carriers so easily.
Long haul carriers thus see BHX / MAN as losing some of their appeal with the reduction in potential feed, while routes to AMS which exist for onward connections of people who cannot easily substitute train for plane are relatively untouched.
APD has naff all effect on connections via Heathrow but it will affect cities like BHX or MAN
APD is however a huge issue for domestic airlines as it is chargeable on any flight from a UK airport (with a couple of exceptions I believe) so domestic flights are hit twice, outbound and inbound. It adds £26 to a return fare for every domestic flight.
Last edited by WHBM; 6th Dec 2013 at 13:28.
You would expect to see "first wave" departures from SOU to GCI and JER from S14, as there will no longer be a/c based on the islands.
The schedule changes in the online timetable (which appear to WIP) also now show that the NQY "based" a/c will operate NQY-LGW-NQY-BHX-NQY-MAN-NQY-LGW-NQY daily in S14 as suspected.
The schedule changes in the online timetable (which appear to WIP) also now show that the NQY "based" a/c will operate NQY-LGW-NQY-BHX-NQY-MAN-NQY-LGW-NQY daily in S14 as suspected.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Jersey also receives an extra daily frequency on the Southampton route. Weekdays up from 4 to 5 flights and weekends 3 to 4 flights. First flight out of the Island is 08.15 rather than 07.05.