MANSTON -3
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: kent
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deedave, it would certainly be a big lifestyle change to move to thanet, all is not rosey in this area, and the wages at manston are nothing to get excited about. as for ryan air using manston, i fear in the long run that it would cost infratil more in incentives etc. than they would gain in profits. i dont believe they make any money at prestwick. the better bet would be flybe.
ps.
notice catflap hasnt spelt out doom and disaster for gatwick/luton now that zoom and xl are no more! the piont being that it is no fault of the AIRPORT as to how badly an AIRLINE is doing.
ps.
notice catflap hasnt spelt out doom and disaster for gatwick/luton now that zoom and xl are no more! the piont being that it is no fault of the AIRPORT as to how badly an AIRLINE is doing.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: se england
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Airport Visit
Possibly an interesting little snippet of info. A (herd) of Thanet councillors were at our airport on Thursday afternoon looking around. Unfortunatley I wasn't present to hear what they said but having spoken to people who were seems like they were interested in how the airport served and interacted with the local comunity with reference to noise,services offered etc.They also looked at how the airport had been developed and at future plans. One did comment that he thought Infratil may be "tidying the place up in order to sell on in the future". They were, however,all committed to supporting Infratil's plans.They also commented on how busy we were.Probably because do have planes here.All in all not very interesting but at least the council are supporting the airport and looking outside the Planet Thanet bubble as to how it could be operated.Of course it could have been just jolly boys p*** up outing on your council tax!
Infratil's thoughts on MSE and other possible acquisitions in UK.
Industry News, Financial News in New Zealand - BusinessDay.co.nz
Industry News, Financial News in New Zealand - BusinessDay.co.nz
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Further to "No Slots" post, I was there and talked to the local councillers.
They were obviously very pro airport but depressingly keen on holding onto their political seats come the next election, I'm afraid that with attitudes like that Infratril are deserving of musch greater support.
As I told said councillers, who were complaing of the Company's attitude, will it take Infratril to say "enough is enough" and give a deadline, after which they will walk away from Manston and leave it to rot?
Unless there is greater political intiative to allow it open H24, operate unrestricted and get a huge wad of cash (it can be found from the Government and the EEC) to invest in attracting a suitable airline (s) to sensible destinations, that's exactly what is going to happen.
Sod the opinions of the NIMBYs, the airport is too important for it's potential contribution to the SE of England.
They were obviously very pro airport but depressingly keen on holding onto their political seats come the next election, I'm afraid that with attitudes like that Infratril are deserving of musch greater support.
As I told said councillers, who were complaing of the Company's attitude, will it take Infratril to say "enough is enough" and give a deadline, after which they will walk away from Manston and leave it to rot?
Unless there is greater political intiative to allow it open H24, operate unrestricted and get a huge wad of cash (it can be found from the Government and the EEC) to invest in attracting a suitable airline (s) to sensible destinations, that's exactly what is going to happen.
Sod the opinions of the NIMBYs, the airport is too important for it's potential contribution to the SE of England.
niknak
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Catflaps,
the information I got from the visiting party was that a planning restraint prevented Manston from accepting flights after 2300 local due to the approach paths overflying Ramsgate at one end and a new development at the other.
What I pointed out to said politicians was that, subject to wind constraints, if the planes landed on one end and departed on the other, they would be in a perfect position to take night freight from Heathrow and IT flights from Stansted, both of whom are severly restricted after 2300 local.
Sadly, this went over their heads.
Now I know that you are, for your own unexplained reasons, a long term dectractor of Manston and that I am a seasoned avaition professional who knows what it takes for airports to be succesfull and I am sure that Infratril know what's needed as well.
It's just a case of convincing the politicians before it's to late.
the information I got from the visiting party was that a planning restraint prevented Manston from accepting flights after 2300 local due to the approach paths overflying Ramsgate at one end and a new development at the other.
What I pointed out to said politicians was that, subject to wind constraints, if the planes landed on one end and departed on the other, they would be in a perfect position to take night freight from Heathrow and IT flights from Stansted, both of whom are severly restricted after 2300 local.
Sadly, this went over their heads.
Now I know that you are, for your own unexplained reasons, a long term dectractor of Manston and that I am a seasoned avaition professional who knows what it takes for airports to be succesfull and I am sure that Infratril know what's needed as well.
It's just a case of convincing the politicians before it's to late.
Have I read this correctly?
A business model to increase trafffic which is dependent on which way the wind is blowing?
What happens when the weather doesn't co-operate?!
A business model to increase trafffic which is dependent on which way the wind is blowing?
What happens when the weather doesn't co-operate?!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Isle of Thanet
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From the Infratil report:
Kent International handled 1,081 tonnes of freight in August, an increase of 25% on the prior year total of 867 tonnes.
EgyptAir delivered an improvement of nearly 300% against August 2007 with regular export loads and Cargolux also grew year-on year volume.
MK Airlines, the previous largest customer, has recommenced flying but has focused its flying in Luxembourg to shorten flying distance, although has operated an ad-hoc flight during the month. The year-to-date freight volume of 7,400 tonnes is 2% behind the equivalent period in 2007.
Kent International handled 1,081 tonnes of freight in August, an increase of 25% on the prior year total of 867 tonnes.
EgyptAir delivered an improvement of nearly 300% against August 2007 with regular export loads and Cargolux also grew year-on year volume.
MK Airlines, the previous largest customer, has recommenced flying but has focused its flying in Luxembourg to shorten flying distance, although has operated an ad-hoc flight during the month. The year-to-date freight volume of 7,400 tonnes is 2% behind the equivalent period in 2007.
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Many airports operate such a system if the wind is 5kt or less, I suppose I should have included that and most operators find it perfectly acceptable.
I don't work at or have anything to do with Manston but anyone with any significant experience at a professional level in airports knows what makes them tick and equally what makes them come to a standstill.
I don't work at or have anything to do with Manston but anyone with any significant experience at a professional level in airports knows what makes them tick and equally what makes them come to a standstill.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Isle of Thanet
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The S106 allows unrestricted flights between 07:00 and 23:00, plus flights coming from North America may land after 06:00. Outside these hours, late or ad hoc flights are allowed, subject to noise categories. No regular timetabled flights are permitted.
What is particularly punitive in the MSE S106, and has kept operators away, is the doubling up of penalties by individual aircraft (i.e. £1,000 the first time, £2,000 the second time, £4,000 the third time...); what other airport in Britain has such a burden? Those so dismissive of Manston's progress are either ignorant of or seek to conceal these facts.
What is particularly punitive in the MSE S106, and has kept operators away, is the doubling up of penalties by individual aircraft (i.e. £1,000 the first time, £2,000 the second time, £4,000 the third time...); what other airport in Britain has such a burden? Those so dismissive of Manston's progress are either ignorant of or seek to conceal these facts.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Thanet
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The original S106 agreement was between Planestation and Thanet Council, and there seems to be some disagreement as to whether this agreement is, or should be, binding on subsequent owners. Press reports would suggest that attempts by Thanet council to negotiate a new 106 with Infratil at KIA have fallen on deaf ears.
One thing is certain, however. The financial levy for night time operation has been largely theoretical.
Planestation approached Thanet council to operate scheduled EUjet flights after midnight and were immediately told "yes".
Press reports indicated that by the time Planestation went into administration, no payments had actually been made for any night operations.
Operators can and do currently use Manston after midnight.
I am no defender of Thanet politicians, but to accuse them of hindering progress at MSE is unfair and untrue.
They have bent over backwards to help Manston at every turn, but at the end of the day they are the elected representatives of the Thanet population, and that population is bitterly opposed to night flights.
One thing is certain, however. The financial levy for night time operation has been largely theoretical.
Planestation approached Thanet council to operate scheduled EUjet flights after midnight and were immediately told "yes".
Press reports indicated that by the time Planestation went into administration, no payments had actually been made for any night operations.
Operators can and do currently use Manston after midnight.
I am no defender of Thanet politicians, but to accuse them of hindering progress at MSE is unfair and untrue.
They have bent over backwards to help Manston at every turn, but at the end of the day they are the elected representatives of the Thanet population, and that population is bitterly opposed to night flights.
niknak
It's one thing to have preferred operations procedures whereby operators are expected to accept up to a 5kt tailwind component as a noise abatement measure, and I agree that this is applied at some airports at certain times. It is something altogether different to make it the basis for allowing substantial night flights in the first place as you cannot predict the noise nuisance that the sensitive communities will suffer. I cannot see Councillors accepting such an unpredictable situation as being reasonable.
To take up your point regarding knowing what makes an airport tick, if you are experienced in Ops then you know what is needed there and if you work in a commercial department you know those requirements and in ATC likewise, but the three knowledge bases need to be put together to produce a successful result.
It's one thing to have preferred operations procedures whereby operators are expected to accept up to a 5kt tailwind component as a noise abatement measure, and I agree that this is applied at some airports at certain times. It is something altogether different to make it the basis for allowing substantial night flights in the first place as you cannot predict the noise nuisance that the sensitive communities will suffer. I cannot see Councillors accepting such an unpredictable situation as being reasonable.
To take up your point regarding knowing what makes an airport tick, if you are experienced in Ops then you know what is needed there and if you work in a commercial department you know those requirements and in ATC likewise, but the three knowledge bases need to be put together to produce a successful result.
niknak
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Expressflight,
agreed, but having met the people who have a considerable political influence and having worked with the same types before, I'd be very suprised if Infratril stay.
Clearly there has been some very hard work done at all levels of the various council authorities, but the self interest and commercial ignorance of a few that prevails there is nothing I haven't encountered in the past.
I have no doubt that if, for example, Toyota or Nissan turned up tommorrow and expressed interest in buidling a car plant on the airport site, they'd do their best to close Manston tommorrow and give away £millions in local tax payers cash to make it happen.
A contact within Infratril tells me that they are seriously considering their position at Manston for very obvious reasons and if they chose to get out it wouldn't cost them a penny and I wouldn't blame them for doing so.
agreed, but having met the people who have a considerable political influence and having worked with the same types before, I'd be very suprised if Infratril stay.
Clearly there has been some very hard work done at all levels of the various council authorities, but the self interest and commercial ignorance of a few that prevails there is nothing I haven't encountered in the past.
I have no doubt that if, for example, Toyota or Nissan turned up tommorrow and expressed interest in buidling a car plant on the airport site, they'd do their best to close Manston tommorrow and give away £millions in local tax payers cash to make it happen.
A contact within Infratril tells me that they are seriously considering their position at Manston for very obvious reasons and if they chose to get out it wouldn't cost them a penny and I wouldn't blame them for doing so.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: BIRCHINGTON KENT
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al
Why do you all wish manston to close ? IT is a very good airport , lot of people will be upset if it closed ,I know a few of you would be over the moon, WHY i ask, to day world cargo at Manston moor different freight carrier every day .its looking good to stay open.
Last edited by alanlyn; 23rd Sep 2008 at 16:41. Reason: misprint
Join Date: Sep 2007
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To quote Catflaps (If Infratil are thinking about leaving Manston, it's because it has been a commercial disaster for them.)
ABN Amro's Rob Foster has now put a value on manston of 74m.
If they sell up it for anywere near that, Infratil could make about 50m in three years far from a commercial disaster.
A very sound investment ?
ABN Amro's Rob Foster has now put a value on manston of 74m.
If they sell up it for anywere near that, Infratil could make about 50m in three years far from a commercial disaster.
A very sound investment ?