MANSTON -3
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I'm from Thanet and I feel you may of got some of the facts wrong... It is Westwood Cross and it has been in development since the late 90's. Primarily a retail and entertainment area,opened over 10 years ago with the housing part of it only being quite recent. It is a long way from being a town and up take has been quite limited, with most of the abandoned farm land remaining empty.
As far as people coming from Lewisham??? The whole of Thanet is populated with people from the London area, with the seaside draw being bigger than ever with the reinvention of Margate. There are only probably a few dozen houses built so far and the planned site of the school is now a supermarket. From the site you can see one of the many areas designated a business park, lying empty, but the space here is nothing compared to the large areas planned for business and industrial use next to Manston, with the first new buildings there in over 10 years.
Riveroaks plans have been well advertised in the local press, with the links we have on this forum. There have been no lies. I don't want to disrespect your guests, but they have obviously heard what they want to.
The owners plans for Manston have been little more than a map coloured in, freight has always been the main earner for Manston, with other potential following, passenger flights are planned on the same scale as ever, with the increasingly affluent, growing local population wanting the choice to connect to the world or take their holiday charter without enduring the misery of the M25 and the chaotic, in personal experience of the London airports.
As far as people coming from Lewisham??? The whole of Thanet is populated with people from the London area, with the seaside draw being bigger than ever with the reinvention of Margate. There are only probably a few dozen houses built so far and the planned site of the school is now a supermarket. From the site you can see one of the many areas designated a business park, lying empty, but the space here is nothing compared to the large areas planned for business and industrial use next to Manston, with the first new buildings there in over 10 years.
Riveroaks plans have been well advertised in the local press, with the links we have on this forum. There have been no lies. I don't want to disrespect your guests, but they have obviously heard what they want to.
The owners plans for Manston have been little more than a map coloured in, freight has always been the main earner for Manston, with other potential following, passenger flights are planned on the same scale as ever, with the increasingly affluent, growing local population wanting the choice to connect to the world or take their holiday charter without enduring the misery of the M25 and the chaotic, in personal experience of the London airports.
As for connecting to the world Manston had that opportunity with KLM connecting Thanet to KLM's, and all their codeshare partners, world, but two or three Fokkers, or whatever, a day don't make for a viable airport.
You say that freight has always been the main earner for Manston, is that because it failed so miserably trying to attract passengers that the occasional freight movement won every time?
I worked for some 7 years in the cargo airline business, I do recall the occasional loaded freighter going thru Manston but more often than not the freighters were in Manston for maintenance with Jet Support, they weren't carrying revenue loads and what part of "THE RUNWAY ISN'T LONG ENOUGH" do you people have difficulty understanding?
And, yes, I did put a loaded freighter in to Manston one day, it was an F27 on it's way back DUS/SEN when pretty much all of England fogged out, Manston popped up with 1,000m RVR so we diverted it in there ... There, you can add a diverted F27 freighter to your statistics!
As for holiday destinations, EUJet tried it with modestly sized F100's and they failed miserably, Flybe had a route or two out of Manston but they couldn't make those work, as per my previous post the people of Thanet are being led to believe that with a re-opened Manston they can be jetting off to a holiday destination of their choice from their doorstep airport, well someone needs to tell these people the truth!
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Facts vs. Fiction
Whether it be Weston Cross or Westwood Cross might be considered nitpicking!
As for connecting to the world Manston had that opportunity with KLM connecting Thanet to KLM's, and all their codeshare partners, world, but two or three Fokkers, or whatever, a day don't make for a viable airport.
You say that freight has always been the main earner for Manston, is that because it failed so miserably trying to attract passengers that the occasional freight movement won every time?
I worked for some 7 years in the cargo airline business, I do recall the occasional loaded freighter going thru Manston but more often than not the freighters were in Manston for maintenance with Jet Support, they weren't carrying revenue loads and what part of "THE RUNWAY ISN'T LONG ENOUGH" do you people have difficulty understanding?
And, yes, I did put a loaded freighter in to Manston one day, it was an F27 on it's way back DUS/SEN when pretty much all of England fogged out, Manston popped up with 1,000m RVR so we diverted it in there ... There, you can add a diverted F27 freighter to your statistics!
As for holiday destinations, EUJet tried it with modestly sized F100's and they failed miserably, Flybe had a route or two out of Manston but they couldn't make those work, as per my previous post the people of Thanet are being led to believe that with a re-opened Manston they can be jetting off to a holiday destination of their choice from their doorstep airport, well someone needs to tell these people the truth!
As for connecting to the world Manston had that opportunity with KLM connecting Thanet to KLM's, and all their codeshare partners, world, but two or three Fokkers, or whatever, a day don't make for a viable airport.
You say that freight has always been the main earner for Manston, is that because it failed so miserably trying to attract passengers that the occasional freight movement won every time?
I worked for some 7 years in the cargo airline business, I do recall the occasional loaded freighter going thru Manston but more often than not the freighters were in Manston for maintenance with Jet Support, they weren't carrying revenue loads and what part of "THE RUNWAY ISN'T LONG ENOUGH" do you people have difficulty understanding?
And, yes, I did put a loaded freighter in to Manston one day, it was an F27 on it's way back DUS/SEN when pretty much all of England fogged out, Manston popped up with 1,000m RVR so we diverted it in there ... There, you can add a diverted F27 freighter to your statistics!
As for holiday destinations, EUJet tried it with modestly sized F100's and they failed miserably, Flybe had a route or two out of Manston but they couldn't make those work, as per my previous post the people of Thanet are being led to believe that with a re-opened Manston they can be jetting off to a holiday destination of their choice from their doorstep airport, well someone needs to tell these people the truth!
25,500 tonnes of imported cargo in 2011. Runway too short??? I don't think so. And all of this 25,500 tonnes being delivered by "the odd freighter movement"??? I don't think so.
It's a rumour network here but when the facts are to hand, let's use them rather concocting fiction.
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For Freight it really was a dream place for the importers and in particular Tesco that were using MK for the perishables from Africa. I believe the record for on chocks to first truck loaded with LD3's and then truck landside on its way to DC was 8 minutes, that was achieved when the new apron was laid.
The only issues was the runway was not long enough for the fully laden MD 11 which was where the money really was - a 300 mtr extension and the airport would still be busy as a freight / regional pax airport - still all history now and the like of MK dont really exist anymore.
The only issues was the runway was not long enough for the fully laden MD 11 which was where the money really was - a 300 mtr extension and the airport would still be busy as a freight / regional pax airport - still all history now and the like of MK dont really exist anymore.
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Too much fiction Harry and not enough fact. Looking at 2011 the airport was ranked 8th largest in the UK on total freight handled, and 5th largest when considering only dedicated freighter cargo (i.e. excluding pax ops cargo).
25,500 tonnes of imported cargo in 2011. Runway too short??? I don't think so. And all of this 25,500 tonnes being delivered by "the odd freighter movement"??? I don't think so.
It's a rumour network here but when the facts are to hand, let's use them rather concocting fiction.
25,500 tonnes of imported cargo in 2011. Runway too short??? I don't think so. And all of this 25,500 tonnes being delivered by "the odd freighter movement"??? I don't think so.
It's a rumour network here but when the facts are to hand, let's use them rather concocting fiction.
Runway not long enough for a heavy MD11? ... The runway isn't long enough for a heavy DC8, DC10, B747, B777 or pretty much anything of a similar size, for a heavy one of those need a minimum of 10,000ft and then some.
8th largest in freight handled in 2011, well I can think of an obvious first four or five, three LON's, MAN & EMA, then I'd suggest we are scraping the barrel for numbers 6 and below!
Guess what the number 1 airport in Wales was during 2011? ... LOL
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Ah ... IMPORTED cargo, a heavy freighter needs less runway to land than it does to take off, so this was inbound freight only, hardly a profit making business if every other sector was a ferry flight.
Runway not long enough for a heavy MD11? ... The runway isn't long enough for a heavy DC8, DC10, B747, B777 or pretty much anything of a similar size, for a heavy one of those need a minimum of 10,000ft and then some.
8th largest in freight handled in 2011, well I can think of an obvious first four or five, three LON's, MAN & EMA, then I'd suggest we are scraping the barrel for numbers 6 and below!
Guess what the number 1 airport in Wales was during 2011? ... LOL
Runway not long enough for a heavy MD11? ... The runway isn't long enough for a heavy DC8, DC10, B747, B777 or pretty much anything of a similar size, for a heavy one of those need a minimum of 10,000ft and then some.
8th largest in freight handled in 2011, well I can think of an obvious first four or five, three LON's, MAN & EMA, then I'd suggest we are scraping the barrel for numbers 6 and below!
Guess what the number 1 airport in Wales was during 2011? ... LOL
Guess what? Of the total freight Luton shifted last year, 80% was freight in and just 20% freight out. Stansted? 67% of the total freight was freight in.
Manston is viable as a freight hub. Imported fresh produce made up the bulk of its activity, and given its faster hold-to-truck-to-road times over Heathrow, Gatwick et al, the fresh produce got into the London markets quicker despite Manston being further away by road.
Harry, I suggest you stick to reminiscing rather than attempting to shoot people down, like the good Doctor, who might actually have a valid point.
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How much of our imported fresh produce goes to London markets, and how much to the supermarket distribution centres? And where are they? And how is this produce arriving now? Just asking.
History would suggest otherwise. Whatever volumes of fresh produce were being flown in, wherever Manston stood in the freight rankings, it was never enough to make the airport commercially viable. Various people have tried, without success.
The trouble is that really only works for intermittent freight deliveries. If Manston were to start dealing with the sort of volumes of freight that would make it commercially viable, that rapid turnaround time would be degraded and any time advantage compromised.
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So you agree that there were substantial movements, there was substantial cargo, however because it was inbound and not outbound that still makes the runway too short
Guess what? Of the total freight Luton shifted last year, 80% was freight in and just 20% freight out. Stansted? 67% of the total freight was freight in.
Manston is viable as a freight hub.
Harry, I suggest you stick to reminiscing
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Whether it be Weston Cross or Westwood Cross might be considered nitpicking!
As for connecting to the world Manston had that opportunity with KLM connecting Thanet to KLM's, and all their codeshare partners, world, but two or three Fokkers, or whatever, a day don't make for a viable airport.
You say that freight has always been the main earner for Manston, is that because it failed so miserably trying to attract passengers that the occasional freight movement won every time?
I worked for some 7 years in the cargo airline business, I do recall the occasional loaded freighter going thru Manston but more often than not the freighters were in Manston for maintenance with Jet Support, they weren't carrying revenue loads and what part of "THE RUNWAY ISN'T LONG ENOUGH" do you people have difficulty understanding?
And, yes, I did put a loaded freighter in to Manston one day, it was an F27 on it's way back DUS/SEN when pretty much all of England fogged out, Manston popped up with 1,000m RVR so we diverted it in there ... There, you can add a diverted F27 freighter to your statistics!
As for holiday destinations, EUJet tried it with modestly sized F100's and they failed miserably, Flybe had a route or two out of Manston but they couldn't make those work, as per my previous post the people of Thanet are being led to believe that with a re-opened Manston they can be jetting off to a holiday destination of their choice from their doorstep airport, well someone needs to tell these people the truth!
As for connecting to the world Manston had that opportunity with KLM connecting Thanet to KLM's, and all their codeshare partners, world, but two or three Fokkers, or whatever, a day don't make for a viable airport.
You say that freight has always been the main earner for Manston, is that because it failed so miserably trying to attract passengers that the occasional freight movement won every time?
I worked for some 7 years in the cargo airline business, I do recall the occasional loaded freighter going thru Manston but more often than not the freighters were in Manston for maintenance with Jet Support, they weren't carrying revenue loads and what part of "THE RUNWAY ISN'T LONG ENOUGH" do you people have difficulty understanding?
And, yes, I did put a loaded freighter in to Manston one day, it was an F27 on it's way back DUS/SEN when pretty much all of England fogged out, Manston popped up with 1,000m RVR so we diverted it in there ... There, you can add a diverted F27 freighter to your statistics!
As for holiday destinations, EUJet tried it with modestly sized F100's and they failed miserably, Flybe had a route or two out of Manston but they couldn't make those work, as per my previous post the people of Thanet are being led to believe that with a re-opened Manston they can be jetting off to a holiday destination of their choice from their doorstep airport, well someone needs to tell these people the truth!
2-3 Fokkers was never intended to make the place a viable airport, the catchment area has always been to limited and a regional connection was what KLM wanted to achieve as they had done at Norwich and other smaller airports and they were disappointed when the airport closed.
The money was always in freight movements, usually inbound fresh produce with a 747 able to be landed, unloaded and on the road custom checked within an hour being a big appeal. Freight going out was more limited, but printed matter, live animals (the equine facility was one of the few investments that infratil made) and specialist loads-I remember a AN-124 spending some time being loaded with a satellite. Training requirements, GA movements and as you mentioned maintenance counted for other aircraft.
EUJET tried to take on the concept of city breaks with multiple flights to differing Western Europe destinations, but with limited catchment as mentioned, it had mixed results. It was hastily set up and being bought by the airport operator was always a bad business decision. The flybe flights were always doomed to be nothing more than a test of using sat aircraft in the middle of the day to destinations more likely to appeal to business persons who would waste a day taking a flight at such a time.
The holiday destinations I refer to were the charter packages throughout the season that gave locals a choice of holiday with the previously mentioned appeals, These were often fully booked.
What I have said is what the locals have been told, go through the thread, look at the links and tell me where your statements have got fact from, no one promoting the airport has ever said Manston will take on the role of Heathrows third runway, the closest has been that taking a more regional approach, including MSE would reduce the of traffic needing Heathrow. Living in Thanet I have travelled internationally both making the trip to London airports and through Manston and beyond and I can tell you which I preferred.
Please don't come back slating my responses, look into what I say. As far as Manston now, I would love for it to succeed, I know that better investment when it was open would have seen it hold its own, but the tens of millions required to reopen it would never be returned.
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They’re not good comparisons, though. Both those airports have substantial passenger traffic, so don’t need to maximise freight in the way Manston would need to.
History would suggest otherwise. Whatever volumes of fresh produce were being flown in, wherever Manston stood in the freight rankings, it was never enough to make the airport commercially viable. Various people have tried, without success.
The trouble is that really only works for intermittent freight deliveries. If Manston were to start dealing with the sort of volumes of freight that would make it commercially viable, that rapid turnaround time would be degraded and any time advantage compromised.
History would suggest otherwise. Whatever volumes of fresh produce were being flown in, wherever Manston stood in the freight rankings, it was never enough to make the airport commercially viable. Various people have tried, without success.
The trouble is that really only works for intermittent freight deliveries. If Manston were to start dealing with the sort of volumes of freight that would make it commercially viable, that rapid turnaround time would be degraded and any time advantage compromised.
To grow freight they needed night time flying which I believe was granted just prior to the sale to Ann Gloag.
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2-3 Fokkers was never intended to make the place a viable airport, the catchment area has always been to limited and a regional connection was what KLM wanted to achieve as they had done at Norwich and other smaller airports and they were disappointed when the airport closed.
Right, I'll get back to sucking eggs
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I use to go down to manston quite a lot before the restaurant was changed prior Eujet days use to get quite a lot of the air crews use this I remember one Sunday when the Folkestone air show was on the airport was high in activity with civil aircraft an an124 landed then 2 air Sofia an12s then mk dc8s African international then to round of a il76 I wonder if the British service personal thought they where in the iron curtain also there was a outfit based for a wihile remember OMega air with there 707s bit of a mystery when one of there 707s run of the runway in Africa somewhere with UN Troops on something about the brakes did a bit of leasing out in the early 90s on IT FLights great clip on YouTube
For Freight it really was a dream place for the importers and in particular Tesco that were using MK for the perishables from Africa.
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I would go for Anglesey as the second airport for Wales not Swansea. Whoever thinks Manston would be a viable airport want their heads testing. I am all for airports but not this one. It would be better used as a lorry park especially after Brexit whenever that might happen, because the EU are really going to make things difficult - remember two years ago at Dover!
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I would go for Anglesey as the second airport for Wales not Swansea. Whoever thinks Manston would be a viable airport want their heads testing. I am all for airports but not this one. It would be better used as a lorry park especially after Brexit whenever that might happen, because the EU are really going to make things difficult - remember two years ago at Dover!
OK, a thread drift, but this is a forum of Airlines, Airports & Routes and Manston doesn't have any of those so we may as well chat about something aviation related!
