BIRMINGHAM - 4

[volrider]

Yes re night hospital landing sites
Re replacement aircraft, no SLF will not be footing the bill

[call100]

Originally Posted by CATIII-NDB

ASU - (Police) Air support unit - re Casulty Evac capability - Is there a suitably equiped Hospital in the West Mids that could take a night landing ? by the Police helicopter or are we talking about evac to a suitable airfield BHX/COV/HPG etc then onward to Hosp.
The serious point of all this, covered by others, was the enfirngement of the airfield by persons unknown - That's the point unfortunately - No doubt every Airfield operations manager in the country will be watching the developements in this instance. I seriously doubt that the person(s) who got in have any idea of just how serious the deed was. As just posted by others, the Police now have a replacemEnt capability. No doubt things will change and the SLF (like me) will pay.

Thanks


CAT III

ASU also has a different meaning at BHX.....Anyway, SLF won't be hit with any extra cost. The only time they get hit is when airlines squeeze the airport to lower fees. The SLF think then that they are getting lower fares. The actual cost just gets moved around. However I have little sympathy for someone who pays more for the taxi to the airport than the flight to destination....
So stop worrying and just get on with your life. Enjoy your flights You will be safe in the restricted zone.....(The Police Helecopter is not kept within the restricted zone).

[volrider]

So when in the controlled zone, what was stopping the offenders going onto the restricted zone???? answers to the BHX management please

[call100]

You seem to think that the fence is there to keep all out.....As has been proven on several occasions over the years, if someone is determined they will breach the fence in one way or another.
Common sense says it is a deterrent not a barrier, Had they entered from the controlled area and attempted access to the restricted area the chance of them being seen would be increased greatly. Not something they wanted to risk obviously.
At the end of the day no one can eliminate the risk only mitigate it. Get over it and stop letting every tin pot lunatic in the guise of a terrorist win.....

[huntnhound]

I suspect the ASU will "get over it" very quickly. One of the ways of doing that will be to part company with BHX and save themselves a huge amount of money in office rental, so much in fact that any new site would pay for itself very quickly. After all there is no "security" advantage in staying at the airport

Hnh

[call100]

That's not going to happen. They are having a new Hangar custom built for the Police Helicopter....This incident won't change that.

[volrider]

The hangar has not been built and it can happen....

btw spoke to a Ops guy last night and the 380 is a reality hoping for sept 9th it all depends on the new pier being opened on time which is likely, as Emirates have a big lounge in there.

[call100]

No it won't happen. That's guaranteed the contracts have been signed, so we can put that to bed. Besides, where do you suggest they move to anyway? The new Hangar will be far better than anything anyone else can offer security wise.
Obviously you haven't seen the security set up at Halfpenny Green where the other Helicopter is!?

Emirates are keen for the A380 to come in. The airport have been working with them for several months on the project. It was hoped it could coincide with the official opening of the new pier or the new Emirates lounge.
As you say Sept 9th is looking good at the moment....Fingers crossed all!!

The prison block at the end of the pier will be coming down shortly. Things will certainly look different when that's gone.....

[volrider]

call 100
as you seem to "know" things why has the hangar taken so long to put up then?
If they went to Cov or Wolverhampton there is less security than there is at BHX which is laughable but true.
I think they would be better off keeping it BHX but moving it to the restricted area out of public view, maybe where it used to be 15 years ago. If they have signed contracts its a small matter of changing the location as its only paperwork at this time I have seen no ground work etc re the hangar??

[volrider]

call100 said...

Common sense says it is a deterrent not a barrier, Had they entered from the controlled area and attempted access to the restricted area the chance of them being seen would be increased greatly. Not something they wanted to risk obviously.
At the end of the day no one can eliminate the risk only mitigate it. Get over it and stop letting every tin pot lunatic in the guise of a terrorist win

Ok lets look at this statement of wonderous and wise words....

Had they entered the restricted area... So say they did and as they crossed the main on a motorbike with no lights you are relying on the tower to see them? Ok going with you..say the tower did how long will it take for them to be stopped ...considering they covered the distance to the police chopper and back in a very very short time? Not long enough sadly as they could have taken out any of the airliners parked at the main terminal. Remember Call100 we are living in a real threat world and failure to see what could have happened and what may well happen (now they can see how easilly its done) is a dangerous thing.
But what security improvements have been made at BHX since?? none I guess... But your right Call100 we should get over it and not worry , lets all find a nice sand bank to pop our heads in...
This is a massive wake up call for Birmingham Airport, the Police and the privately owned security company...

[Skipness One Echo]

as they could have taken out any of the airliners parked at the main terminal

Parked empty overnight? What with?
Incidentally if you want mass murder, wouldn't Tesco on a weekend lunchtime be better? Or do we strip search everyone going in there?

All aircraft are security checked at the start of each sector for anything that shouldn't be there. Hence even if someone did get in, there are procedures to check that nothing was sneaked on board untoward.

[volrider]

missing the point, just to take out an airliner empty or not would be a major embarassment, easilly done if they used the same tactic as they did on the police chopper.

[Avman]

volrider,

It's a HANGAR for heaven's sake. A hangar is what you find in your wardrobe (if you have one).

[volrider]

Thank you pointing out my slight error I do appreciate the input

[call100]

Originally Posted by volrider

call 100
as you seem to "know" things why has the hangar taken so long to put up then?
If they went to Cov or Wolverhampton there is less security than there is at BHX which is laughable but true.
I think they would be better off keeping it BHX but moving it to the restricted area out of public view, maybe where it used to be 15 years ago. If they have signed contracts its a small matter of changing the location as its only paperwork at this time I have seen no ground work etc re the hangar??

There is no room in the restricted area.......They have no plans to change the plans. Stable door policy not being used this time....
The Hangar is being put up at the same time as the Ryan air Hangar. Planning permission does not come over night so your statement about 'its only paperwork' is rubbish. The WMP have not long decided that they wanted a hangar. Even when they get one the Helicopter will be parked outside for a majority of the time..

Ok lets look at this statement of wonderous and wise words....

Had they entered the restricted area... So say they did and as they crossed the main on a motorbike with no lights you are relying on the tower to see them? Ok going with you..say the tower did how long will it take for them to be stopped ...considering they covered the distance to the police chopper and back in a very very short time? Not long enough sadly as they could have taken out any of the airliners parked at the main terminal. Remember Call100 we are living in a real threat world and failure to see what could have happened and what may well happen (now they can see how easilly its done) is a dangerous thing.
But what security improvements have been made at BHX since?? none I guess... But your right Call100 we should get over it and not worry , lets all find a nice sand bank to pop our heads in...
This is a massive wake up call for Birmingham Airport, the Police and the privately owned security company...

You really are a doom monger...If you are that concerned then I suggest you are working at the wrong place. Your big mistake is thinking that those who seek to destroy have not thought of these things before and no doubt will in the future.
You have obviously had your head in the sand for many years as you have only just realised the vulnerabilities of all airports. I don't think that it's in anyone's interest to list them all, but then you surely know them all?

[volrider]

I see I touched a nerve you obviously work at the airport and have a biased view of things, so I guess you calling me a doom monger just because I happen to ask the question that you have failed to answer, is the best I can expect re a reply on security
Re hangar (spelt correctly this time ) I do not know how long the Police have been enquiring about one but I assume if ground work has not started then it can be changed, re the "secure" restricted area then fair enough I guess that either a: Security will have to be stepped up or b: The police will go elsewhere.
time will tell

[SilsoeSid]

Here here! tigerfish

Rider of vols....I'll go for answer b

anyhoo;

Call100

That's not going to happen. They are having a new Hangar custom built for the Police Helicopter....This incident won't change that.

No it won't happen. That's guaranteed the contracts have been signed, so we can put that to bed.

Sorry, couldn't find a 'wetting myself laughing at that absolutely ludicrous and ill informed or simply not thought about statement' smilie!



Skipness 1E

Incidentally if you want mass murder, wouldn't Tesco on a weekend lunchtime be better?

I tell you what would really really be better, an Airbus 380 full of pax on the replacement 777 flight and a new airport pier full of 'important people' on September 9th.

But as security at BHX is within guidelines, we won't be seeing any changes to security...will we!

[SilsoeSid]

Why is the security on the Elmdon side so poor even when the Saudis visit and leave their aircraft there unmanned overnight?

Let alone the odd VC-10/Tristar that has been left overnight again with no guard?

Doesn't happen? I assure you that it does.

[call100]

Originally Posted by SilsoeSid

Here here! tigerfish

Rider of vols....I'll go for answer b

anyhoo;

Call100







Sorry, couldn't find a 'wetting myself laughing at that absolutely ludicrous and ill informed or simply not thought about statement' smilie!

Very good graphics little substance............Absolutely pointless.
If you have a different opinion fine. but at least learn how to put it across instead of the childish scribbles.
You usually do better in your posts.........
My information is that the hangar will go ahead. Nothing is being changed.....If you have different information then fine I will go back and check my source.
That's what the forum is for.
Yes Security should have been better for a Police Helicopter. However, the WMP have the ultimate say and they have been happy with the situation until now obviously......
Unless you have it guarded 24/7 then even two fences would not have stopped the event happening......It's not a BHX thing take a look at all the airports in the UK. All have chain link fences. As far as I am aware none are any more secure than BHX. Stansted and Aberdeen come to mind as fences breached.
As for the Elmdon site. Many of us have thought for a long time that it should all be in a restricted area. The fence would have still been the same fence the Security patrol would have been at the same interval.
The fact is that you cannot make any of the areas 100% secure. Take a tour around the airfield....(it can be arranged).....

[volrider]

As for the Elmdon site. Many of us have thought for a long time that it should all be in a restricted area. The fence would have still been the same fence the Security patrol would have been at the same interval.

Which is what SS and myself also think, that security is not good enough and what happened to the police helicopter could happen to something else God forbid.
I think that obviously it all needs a new review