BIRMINGHAM - 4
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Birmingham
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Bottom line is quite simple.
Despite the above endless run of security experts, none of whom pointed out all the supposed security defects prior to the recent event. With 20 odd years of frequenting / working on airfields the real bottom line for all you security experts out there is this.
Last weeks dip stick on a motor bike trip could have been pulled of on any number of civilian, and not a few, military airfields out there!
Despite the above endless run of security experts, none of whom pointed out all the supposed security defects prior to the recent event. With 20 odd years of frequenting / working on airfields the real bottom line for all you security experts out there is this.
Last weeks dip stick on a motor bike trip could have been pulled of on any number of civilian, and not a few, military airfields out there!
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Middle bit
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Last weeks dip stick on a motor bike trip could have been pulled of on any number of civilian, and not a few, military airfields out there!
Hnh
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Firstly, I have no opinion as to the suitability or practicality of perimeter fencing that is placed around BHX. Cast your mind back to the "terror incident" at Glasgow. Following that escapade by determined miscreants, a control measure was put in place at most airports in the UK to minimise the potential of a re-occurence. How effective is thiscontrol measure?
At Birmingham, shiny new posts have now been placed at the set down roads to prevent a vehicle from embedding itself into the main concourse areas. If determined individuals wish to pack, say a motorcycle fitted with side paniers, with C4 or other, they could easily ride through the gaps in these posts to penetrate the front doors. The next control measure after such an event would no doubt to place a concrete or other substantial structure to prevent this happening again. Once this has been erected, other deranged persons could possibly fill suitcases with explosives and then enter the building, as pax would, and then detonate. The point I'm making (finally) is to say what N'th degree do we go here??? If people are twisted enough to want to carry out such acts they will do their homework.
Fortunately, 99.99 recurring % of people don't want to break into an airport and do such things. The other % will succeed in someway, shape or form. No fence, security company, SOP's, technology is 100% secure is it?
However, that doesn't stop us from trying to make it 100%!!!
At Birmingham, shiny new posts have now been placed at the set down roads to prevent a vehicle from embedding itself into the main concourse areas. If determined individuals wish to pack, say a motorcycle fitted with side paniers, with C4 or other, they could easily ride through the gaps in these posts to penetrate the front doors. The next control measure after such an event would no doubt to place a concrete or other substantial structure to prevent this happening again. Once this has been erected, other deranged persons could possibly fill suitcases with explosives and then enter the building, as pax would, and then detonate. The point I'm making (finally) is to say what N'th degree do we go here??? If people are twisted enough to want to carry out such acts they will do their homework.
Fortunately, 99.99 recurring % of people don't want to break into an airport and do such things. The other % will succeed in someway, shape or form. No fence, security company, SOP's, technology is 100% secure is it?
However, that doesn't stop us from trying to make it 100%!!!
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Fortunately, 99.99 recurring % of people don't want to break into an airport and do such things. The other % will succeed in someway, shape or form. No fence, security company, SOP's, technology is 100% secure is it?
However, that doesn't stop us from trying to make it 100%!!!
However, that doesn't stop us from trying to make it 100%!!!
on the cargo side of the airfield.....TWO YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now what does that say about BHX security?
Hnh
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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Now what does that say about BHX security?
However as to whether much of it is a good investment, needed or just hype, we shall see. To those who say you can never be too secure I remind you that living in free society there is always an element of risk. Go too far the other way and every flight becomes an experience like El Al, and I hope that's not something we are advocating.
The Islamist terrorist threat will fade over time, and whereas we might not go back to the good old days as it were, the paranoia and fear will recede, as well talk of electrified fences and ten foot ditches, more likely to kill an employee than an intruder.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle NI
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If some one crosses a fence, designed to keep them out, then what happens to them is fair game in my book, electric fences do not descriminate between people with serious criminal intent or boys with high spirits (or too much spirit in them) the police ASU is a high value target for the under world and it has happened before at Liverpool if i remember?
The entire perimiter at BFS is lighted and monitored for obvious reasons as should all airports (well ok not worth it at Durham Teess Valley) but you get my drifit, the police ASU should be in a fence within a fence and cross the second one and expect a police marksmen to drop you
The entire perimiter at BFS is lighted and monitored for obvious reasons as should all airports (well ok not worth it at Durham Teess Valley) but you get my drifit, the police ASU should be in a fence within a fence and cross the second one and expect a police marksmen to drop you
Join Date: Aug 2002
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expect a police marksmen to drop you
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Wow! When did criminal damage become a capital offence?
No My Lord, as he was cutting through both fences with a (insert weapon of choice here) in his hand, under the cover of darkness, my client didn't see the clearly visible signs saying;
Warning
No Trespassing
Beyond this point Deadly Force is Authorised
As he cannot read.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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I'm not a defence laywer, and a dead suspect isn't going to tell you anything you will need to know......
Does the Police Support Unit really do the work of a HeliMed chopper in the Midlands area? They have dedicated helicopters elsewhere..
Cheers !
Does the Police Support Unit really do the work of a HeliMed chopper in the Midlands area? They have dedicated helicopters elsewhere..
Cheers !
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Just to clear it up...Is that criminal damage as in the Glasgow Airport incident? 
A suspect with a device to destroy property, maim or kill and has penetrated a restricted area... isn't a suspect for long!
In the case of life/death, Yes. 24/7 and not just the Midlands.
A suspect with a device to destroy property, maim or kill and has penetrated a restricted area... isn't a suspect for long!
Does the Police Support Unit really do the work of a HeliMed chopper in the Midlands area? They have dedicated helicopters elsewhere..
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: bhx
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Maybe we should implement the airfield security in place at ISB & PEW Airports, Gun Turrets at certain intervals along the perimeter.
That would make them thinks twice before thinking up stupid thoughts.
That would make them thinks twice before thinking up stupid thoughts.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
So has anyone else got any ideas on the gaps in security they can post on here to inform tommy terrorist?? Or mr nutter?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Birmingham
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I'm not as much uncomfortable about where this is going as where it has already gone. Clearly recent posters are working at the airport - we may not all always agree on the details but generally will hear each other out and take on board differing views with respect. Yes the odd loon who doesn't work here comes in and winds people up but I'm sorry to see and read a deterioration in respect. I also think discussing the finer details of where we see risk in security and safety as a discussion has its place for sure but not in a public forum. I mean no personal criticism of anyone, just an observation.`i like healthy debate with respect...can we go back there?
Join Date: Aug 2006
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PhilBHX and Skipness,
Hear Hear!! Sense at last. Where are the Mods when you need them??
By the way in 30+ posts on this topic, has anyone questioned the absurdity of protecting a multi million pound facility, often with thousands of civilians on site at any one time, with a simple, easy to cut through fence. Even without the actual Security Patrols that take place aswell at BHX, my parents back garden is better protected in terms of fencing!
Hear Hear!! Sense at last. Where are the Mods when you need them??
By the way in 30+ posts on this topic, has anyone questioned the absurdity of protecting a multi million pound facility, often with thousands of civilians on site at any one time, with a simple, easy to cut through fence. Even without the actual Security Patrols that take place aswell at BHX, my parents back garden is better protected in terms of fencing!
Some of you are simply wasting your breath. There´s no such thing as 100% security and there never will be. It comes down to risk v unneccesary cost. Why spend hundreds and thousands when it still won´t guarantee total security? Earlier, I jokingly suggested a thick concrete wall around the entire airport. The truth is that even that wouldn´t be that effective. In fact, it would probably add to the risk factor rather than reduce it.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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How effective are the Security Patrols ?
I don't know, or even want to know, how often the Security team patrol the airfield perimeter, but I have noticed that their 4 wheel drive vehicles do not seem to be equipped with "Alley" lights, like those on the roof bars of Police vehicles.
What do the Security staff actually DO during this patrol ?
Is there a physical and close up check and examination of the perimeter fence ?
It has been clearly demonstrated here how easy it is to breach the fence, but if the Security patrol just drives on by without noticing, then what's the point of the patrol ?
During the perimeter patrol, at night, I assume that the driver will be looking ahead to see where they are driving from the light of their headlamps.
Are the perimeter patrols carried out by TWO Security Guards in one vehicle, so that the passenger can concentrate on examining the fence and beyond - looking for anything suspicous, and if so do they have any sort of hand held lamp to help see into the dark ?
If not, then what does the "patrol" hope to achieve - Any bad guys will see them coming a long way off because of the compulsory orange roof beacon, so there will be a deterrent effect of only a few seconds, while they just duck into a bush and wait for them to pass.
Maybe, just maybe - pure conjecture - but if the hole in the fence had been cut in advance, prior to the motorbike arriving, and left loosely in place until they decided the time was right ( orange beacon disappearing across the other side of the field ), then it "could" have been spotted in advance by Secuurity, and appropriate action taken.
As always, lots of "if only's" and hind sight etc, but are BIA Management doing anything in terms of how these existing security patrols are conducted, with a view to thwarting any further attempts at gaining entry to the site ?
For them ( BIA ) to respond
seems to be a bit of a cop out, and sends the wrong message out.
Guidelines eh ? Are they conducting any sort of Security review ?
What do the Security staff actually DO during this patrol ?
Is there a physical and close up check and examination of the perimeter fence ?
It has been clearly demonstrated here how easy it is to breach the fence, but if the Security patrol just drives on by without noticing, then what's the point of the patrol ?
During the perimeter patrol, at night, I assume that the driver will be looking ahead to see where they are driving from the light of their headlamps.
Are the perimeter patrols carried out by TWO Security Guards in one vehicle, so that the passenger can concentrate on examining the fence and beyond - looking for anything suspicous, and if so do they have any sort of hand held lamp to help see into the dark ?
If not, then what does the "patrol" hope to achieve - Any bad guys will see them coming a long way off because of the compulsory orange roof beacon, so there will be a deterrent effect of only a few seconds, while they just duck into a bush and wait for them to pass.
Maybe, just maybe - pure conjecture - but if the hole in the fence had been cut in advance, prior to the motorbike arriving, and left loosely in place until they decided the time was right ( orange beacon disappearing across the other side of the field ), then it "could" have been spotted in advance by Secuurity, and appropriate action taken.
As always, lots of "if only's" and hind sight etc, but are BIA Management doing anything in terms of how these existing security patrols are conducted, with a view to thwarting any further attempts at gaining entry to the site ?
For them ( BIA ) to respond
that they were “confident” they met all necessary security guidelines
Guidelines eh ? Are they conducting any sort of Security review ?
