MANCHESTER - 5
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: -
Age: 54
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes you are right noone from liverpool uses LPL i know every allways flys from manc.
but why do people slag MAN off none stop?? i mean they may have some probs but imn sure its getting sorted its no worse than LHR ETC
i fly MAN every year and have no problems whatso ever niether do people i know.
flew to america last year and nothing wrong left bang on time,easy.why the fuss its a major int airport handling over 22m passengers theres going to be some queues.
but why do people slag MAN off none stop?? i mean they may have some probs but imn sure its getting sorted its no worse than LHR ETC
i fly MAN every year and have no problems whatso ever niether do people i know.
flew to america last year and nothing wrong left bang on time,easy.why the fuss its a major int airport handling over 22m passengers theres going to be some queues.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MCT
Posts: 895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A330 ETOPS
Lots of interesting plans there and as you say some are already under way. But where will the money come from, especially for the longer term projects, with a stagnant/ declining demand? Whether you like it or not, no-one builds ahead of demand nowadays.Sweating the assets means more profit but look what happens to service standards. In addition MAG look like they will be spending money on the acquisition trail with BHD and LGW appearing to be in their sights
Several different T2 extensions have been planned over the years and nothing has happened yet. Same with the T1-T2 link which was originally proposed when T2 opened but was dropped in the value engineering (= cost cutting) exercise at the time.
And a full length parallel taxiway for 23L/05R would I think trigger off a major planning inquiry as the Bollin Tunnel would need to be extended. As for a third runway - well dream on. In the current and forseeable climate no need.
And can you please let me know what you mean by the "original Fire Station site" as I think the current one N side near Ocean Sky has been there since the mid 1960s?
Suzeman
Lots of interesting plans there and as you say some are already under way. But where will the money come from, especially for the longer term projects, with a stagnant/ declining demand? Whether you like it or not, no-one builds ahead of demand nowadays.Sweating the assets means more profit but look what happens to service standards. In addition MAG look like they will be spending money on the acquisition trail with BHD and LGW appearing to be in their sights
Several different T2 extensions have been planned over the years and nothing has happened yet. Same with the T1-T2 link which was originally proposed when T2 opened but was dropped in the value engineering (= cost cutting) exercise at the time.
And a full length parallel taxiway for 23L/05R would I think trigger off a major planning inquiry as the Bollin Tunnel would need to be extended. As for a third runway - well dream on. In the current and forseeable climate no need.
And can you please let me know what you mean by the "original Fire Station site" as I think the current one N side near Ocean Sky has been there since the mid 1960s?
Suzeman
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe that one of the biggest problems is that the airport authority don't get involved in areas that aren't run by themselves. Security is an MAG issue but the majority of other complaints mentioned above are not. Immigration is manned by their own staff. Poor staffing levels resulting in only half the desks being opened is not an MAG issue. Cleaning is managed by Initial. Unclean toilets and dirty terminal building are their responsibility. Check-in and gate staff are managed by handling agents. Not having anyone to meet an aircraft on time is the responsibility of the individual handling agent. Long waits for baggage are also down to the handling agents and airlines. So ultimately, all these individual organisations have the responsibility to provide a high level of service. The problem being that 99% of people travelling through the airport don't understand this so of course passengers are automatically going to put blame on the airport itself. MAG needs to monitor service levels of the individual providers and if they're falling short of providing the high levels required, then there should be procedures to deal with this. That is not happening at the moment because the airport see it as 'unethical' to tread on the toes of the service providers and tell them how to do their job. The only acception being if the level of service is consistantly poor and even then, MAG are not in a position to take over and make improvements themselves.
Sounds like T2 is a bit of a nightmare at the minute and the building work (which should have been complete mid May) clearly isn't helping. I've moved over to T1 now and I have to say that it's a lot better. Maximum queue time for security in May was 12 minutes and the average queue time for immigration was 9 minutes. Not bad going really. Yes, the whole design of the airside facility is not ideal right now. But give it chance. There is still major construction work going on across all 3 terminals and this will continue until next March. How about people have some patience and judge it when everything has been completed, not before.
Sounds like T2 is a bit of a nightmare at the minute and the building work (which should have been complete mid May) clearly isn't helping. I've moved over to T1 now and I have to say that it's a lot better. Maximum queue time for security in May was 12 minutes and the average queue time for immigration was 9 minutes. Not bad going really. Yes, the whole design of the airside facility is not ideal right now. But give it chance. There is still major construction work going on across all 3 terminals and this will continue until next March. How about people have some patience and judge it when everything has been completed, not before.
Demolition of older buildings, such as old storage buildings, to the east of Terminal 3 has already begun. This is to make way for a new apron and taxiway towards runway 23R/05L, and an eastwards extension of Terminal 3, which is planned to provide an extra fifteen covered stands. A full length parallel taxiway may also be added to the second runway and more crossing points added across the first runway to improve ground movements of aircraft. Passenger flow on Terminal 1's gating piers is due to be realigned, with plans to redesign the piers such that departures and arrivals do not contraflow on the same level, allowing for larger seating areas at the gates, express retail outlets and a dedicated lounge and gating area for future Airbus A380 flights. Terminal 2 is due to receive a major extension, to encompass current remote stands to the west. Up to an extra eight covered stands will be made available by this. An airside link for transferring passengers between Terminals 1 & 2 is at the planning stage, designed in an effort to boost Manchester's chances of becoming a major hub airport. There is uncertainty as to whether this link should provide extra stands for the two terminals, or merely exist as a transfer corridor.
As you know, all existing terminals are undergoing a retail and airport security refurbishment programme, with Terminals 1 and 3 due to be complete by spring 2009, and Terminal 2 by autumn 2009. The security control areas are undergoing upgrades of new X-ray machines and passenger authenticity control systems, which will ensure a higher and faster passenger throughput, whilst improving the already elevated levels of security at the airport. The new security control areas are due to be complete and in use by late April 2008 in Terminal 1 and early July 2008 in Terminal 2.
The current fire station on the north of the airfield is becoming outdated and expensive to maintain and is also in the way of future apron and taxiway developments, so it is also stated that this may be demolished and a new facility built close to the original fire station site. A third runway and a Terminal 4 or satellite terminal may also be developed, however any such expansion would be subject to major public inquiry, and neither is currently accounted for in the airport's plans to 2015.
The taxiways are undergoing a phased renewal programme. Work on taxiway Alpha has recently been completed, and runway crossing point Delta Zulu is being resurfaced. The 'South Bay' stands at the end of B Pier recently closed to make way for a realigning of part of taxiway Juliet to allow the accommodation of the A380. The work also fits in with the airfields future taxiway strategy.
As you know, all existing terminals are undergoing a retail and airport security refurbishment programme, with Terminals 1 and 3 due to be complete by spring 2009, and Terminal 2 by autumn 2009. The security control areas are undergoing upgrades of new X-ray machines and passenger authenticity control systems, which will ensure a higher and faster passenger throughput, whilst improving the already elevated levels of security at the airport. The new security control areas are due to be complete and in use by late April 2008 in Terminal 1 and early July 2008 in Terminal 2.
The current fire station on the north of the airfield is becoming outdated and expensive to maintain and is also in the way of future apron and taxiway developments, so it is also stated that this may be demolished and a new facility built close to the original fire station site. A third runway and a Terminal 4 or satellite terminal may also be developed, however any such expansion would be subject to major public inquiry, and neither is currently accounted for in the airport's plans to 2015.
The taxiways are undergoing a phased renewal programme. Work on taxiway Alpha has recently been completed, and runway crossing point Delta Zulu is being resurfaced. The 'South Bay' stands at the end of B Pier recently closed to make way for a realigning of part of taxiway Juliet to allow the accommodation of the A380. The work also fits in with the airfields future taxiway strategy.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North of England
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe the reason no one flies from liverpool (altho 5.5 million do) is that all the tour operators have reduced their programmes so much that there is no longer a choice to fly from your local airport anymore
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: England
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FlyZB:
Yes, but as MAG owns the brand that is Manchester Airport, it has a duty to protect that brand, and the service levels to its customers. I believe it has various user groups and performance review meetings with the service partners to ensure that stakeholders' performance and plans are aligned with MAG's plans. It also has a Director of Customer Services, and a huge team below him, to ensure they get it right.
I believe the problem is due to MAG driving down its own costs and increasing its income to free up cash to reduce charges to attract airlines (which only worked for a short time anyway). This has resulted in the service partners also having to reduce their costs to stay afloat (e.g. Initial) and the retailers having to increase their concession fees and rents to stay in the game. For both groups, their main cost that is adjustable, in a labour-driven service industry, is wages, which are far lower in real terms than they used to be. Coupled with staff car parks being further away and too small, and alternative employment easier to find (Trafford Centre, Wythenshawe office developments, Sharston, Trafford Park, Warrington etc.) then it's inevitable that the workers that keep it going (shop staff, cleaners, baggage handlers etc.) will walk, and service levels will collapse.
Management have been told numerous times this would happen. They haven't listened. It's Thatcher in 1990, and Blair/Brown in 2008, all over again - the ruling class losing touch with what the people are doing.
Yes, but as MAG owns the brand that is Manchester Airport, it has a duty to protect that brand, and the service levels to its customers. I believe it has various user groups and performance review meetings with the service partners to ensure that stakeholders' performance and plans are aligned with MAG's plans. It also has a Director of Customer Services, and a huge team below him, to ensure they get it right.
I believe the problem is due to MAG driving down its own costs and increasing its income to free up cash to reduce charges to attract airlines (which only worked for a short time anyway). This has resulted in the service partners also having to reduce their costs to stay afloat (e.g. Initial) and the retailers having to increase their concession fees and rents to stay in the game. For both groups, their main cost that is adjustable, in a labour-driven service industry, is wages, which are far lower in real terms than they used to be. Coupled with staff car parks being further away and too small, and alternative employment easier to find (Trafford Centre, Wythenshawe office developments, Sharston, Trafford Park, Warrington etc.) then it's inevitable that the workers that keep it going (shop staff, cleaners, baggage handlers etc.) will walk, and service levels will collapse.
Management have been told numerous times this would happen. They haven't listened. It's Thatcher in 1990, and Blair/Brown in 2008, all over again - the ruling class losing touch with what the people are doing.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well this can certainly been seen with Initial, the cleaning budget was reduced and I guess as a result the level of cleanliness around the airport has vastly gone downhill. However, Initial insisted that they could cope with the reduced budget but quite obviously they can't. On more occasions than not the cleaning standard set by MAG itself is not achieved but the problem is that nobody seems to pull Initial up on the matter. Perhaps they feel embarrased by the fact that the budget was reduced but they still expect the same high standards? This is what I mean though. Despite the fact that there are user groups and feedback meetings, MAG doesn't get involved enough in matters relating to the individual organisations that make up the airport. Unfair to simply target Initial, there are numerous handling agents that simply cannot deliver what they've promised. Promised to the airlines & promised to the airport. Who consistantly cannot cope with their check-in queues, don't have enough staff to offload baggage promptly & cannot provide a quality level of service to their airline customers. All this looks bad for Manchester. So why aren't MAG coming down harder on these companies? They need to get more involved. Perhaps the deminishing level of service by handling agents etc is a result of MAG reducing costs but service providers shouldn't promise high levels of service if they can't deliver. If they had MAG management coming down hard on them then maybe they would make more effort to provide the service that they promised or better still, admit that they can't deliver the levels required and offer the contract (whatever it may be) to someone who can.
Ultimately, there is a definate blame culture between the different companies that doesn't help matters. If baggage has taken a long time to be offloaded from a flight, MA heap blame on the individual handling agent or airline. If a passenger complains about the state of the terminal/toilets to an airline employee, they palm it off as the responsibility of MA. Perhaps it's time that everyone helped each other out and worked together to ensure that all aspects of service level being provided to the users of MAN are raised as high as possible and kept there.
Ultimately, there is a definate blame culture between the different companies that doesn't help matters. If baggage has taken a long time to be offloaded from a flight, MA heap blame on the individual handling agent or airline. If a passenger complains about the state of the terminal/toilets to an airline employee, they palm it off as the responsibility of MA. Perhaps it's time that everyone helped each other out and worked together to ensure that all aspects of service level being provided to the users of MAN are raised as high as possible and kept there.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MCT
Posts: 895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Service Standards
It's very sad if the Airport either does not have the power or the inclination to penalise these service partners when they underperform. If there isn't something in the services providers' contracts/ agreements with the airport, then there jolly well should be. These organisations have been given the right to do business on the airport; they should put up or be kicked where it hurts - in the pocket. BAA Airports get financially penalised if they don't perform, so why shouldn't a similar system be devised for service providers?
The Airport should be a run as a team effort and it is a shame, but perhaps inevitable in this age, to read of the blame culture. But at the end of the day, most punters don't care two hoots who is to blame - it is the Airport's brand that will suffer and the pax will look elsewhere if they can. And I thought in this day and age, brand was everything? Surely the airport should be taking steps to protect it before it is irretrievably tainted?
But then what of other airports? Even if another airport has the flights you want will you get better levels of service? Maybe not. So is it a case that some of the older ones amongst us remember when UK airports levels of customer service were generally much higher, whilst the current generation are used to what we get now and don't see anything wrong? A nice exam question perhaps?
Suzeman
PS Well spotted Winco Dinco on A330 ETOPS cut and paste from Wikithingamigig. I thought some of it sounded strange - now I know why !!
The Airport should be a run as a team effort and it is a shame, but perhaps inevitable in this age, to read of the blame culture. But at the end of the day, most punters don't care two hoots who is to blame - it is the Airport's brand that will suffer and the pax will look elsewhere if they can. And I thought in this day and age, brand was everything? Surely the airport should be taking steps to protect it before it is irretrievably tainted?
But then what of other airports? Even if another airport has the flights you want will you get better levels of service? Maybe not. So is it a case that some of the older ones amongst us remember when UK airports levels of customer service were generally much higher, whilst the current generation are used to what we get now and don't see anything wrong? A nice exam question perhaps?
Suzeman
PS
Well spotted Winco Dinco on A330 ETOPS cut and paste from Wikithingamigig. I thought some of it sounded strange - now I know why !!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MCT
Posts: 895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A330 ETOPS
Wikipedia styles itself as the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Although they try to sift inappropriate and incorrect information out and people are asked to supply reference material for what they have posted, inaccurate information can be posted or it may not be up to date. If you look at the recent history of the Manchester Airport pages, they have had 50+ edits in the last week from around 20 different contributors.
So sometimes it is difficult to believe all you read there as information does not necessarily come from official or correct sources. And there have been incidents where people have posted incorrect information on other subjects deliberately to cause trouble. So you have to take it with a pinch of salt.
And when you post it on here it would have been nice to quote your source for the information.
Mind you, this is a rumour network ....
Suzeman
.
Wikipedia styles itself as the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. Although they try to sift inappropriate and incorrect information out and people are asked to supply reference material for what they have posted, inaccurate information can be posted or it may not be up to date. If you look at the recent history of the Manchester Airport pages, they have had 50+ edits in the last week from around 20 different contributors.
So sometimes it is difficult to believe all you read there as information does not necessarily come from official or correct sources. And there have been incidents where people have posted incorrect information on other subjects deliberately to cause trouble. So you have to take it with a pinch of salt.
And when you post it on here it would have been nice to quote your source for the information.
Mind you, this is a rumour network ....
Suzeman
.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 2,069
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A330ETOPS,
Thanks for the reply. Got what I asked for and not really bothered where it came from!
On the EK note would be very surprised to see an A330 back at MAN soon as the UK is mainly only seeing US birds (LGW, NCL and BHX having an airbus each) and personally if I was to fly with them from MAN and had to choose between the airbus and the 77W I would avoid the bus like the plague! The is simply no comparison!
I fly with them next month and was planning to go from BHX as it was quite abit cheaper but saw that the evening flight was the Airbus and instead got on the afternoon EK flight from MAN!
Don't think an A330 would last at MAN now that the northerners have tasted the beast!
Thanks for the reply. Got what I asked for and not really bothered where it came from!
On the EK note would be very surprised to see an A330 back at MAN soon as the UK is mainly only seeing US birds (LGW, NCL and BHX having an airbus each) and personally if I was to fly with them from MAN and had to choose between the airbus and the 77W I would avoid the bus like the plague! The is simply no comparison!
I fly with them next month and was planning to go from BHX as it was quite abit cheaper but saw that the evening flight was the Airbus and instead got on the afternoon EK flight from MAN!
Don't think an A330 would last at MAN now that the northerners have tasted the beast!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 936
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MUFC Fan whilst noting your comments, It is most probably if the 3rd flight does start it will be with the Airbus. (Work wise doesnt worry me cargo never complains about aircraft type). Also its a matter of personal taste, I like the Airbus so am happy to fly on it. However I agree if your saying EK's airbus service isnt up to scratch nowadays. I prefer to use QR than EK and their service on the A330 is excellent.
Can I also defend Manchester a little, as regular user maybe 30-40 times a year, sure there have been times when its been busy, queues at security and/or luggage and I dont claim its as clean or efficient as we all would like it to be, however the vast majority of the time I have had no trouble. Of the posters who have complained of problems, are you referring to a one off event or several similar events. Dont shout me down for this question, I am merely trying to find out if I am lucky or maybe you are letting a single event cloud your views, remember we never remember the 99 times things are right but we certainly remember the one time its wrong.
Also we need to put it into context with other airports both in the UK and Europe and to me its no better or worse than most.
Can I also defend Manchester a little, as regular user maybe 30-40 times a year, sure there have been times when its been busy, queues at security and/or luggage and I dont claim its as clean or efficient as we all would like it to be, however the vast majority of the time I have had no trouble. Of the posters who have complained of problems, are you referring to a one off event or several similar events. Dont shout me down for this question, I am merely trying to find out if I am lucky or maybe you are letting a single event cloud your views, remember we never remember the 99 times things are right but we certainly remember the one time its wrong.
Also we need to put it into context with other airports both in the UK and Europe and to me its no better or worse than most.
Haha absolutely. Glad you found the information useful. I've flew EK about 5 times now to Syd/Per out of manchester, but all on the 777. Never flew as a passenger on their A330 yet. I think the IFE/Cabin comfort is excellent, but i dont think the service is a patch on others, such as Singapore. I'd love to fly the 777. Absolute beauty. I'm thinking a few more hours yet haha
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Manchester , UK
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Service Standards
In relation to how MAG keep an eye on service levels, there were plans or there is in place a Ground Handling Licence. This is suppost to keep a check on the handling agents to ensure they perform to the correct standards and stop the airport suffering from lack of service from a service provider where they have no control over.
I'm sure this was in place but i may be wrong...things at MAG take forever.
Many service providers would love to work together but many facilities are held back or stopped all together by MAG.
I'm sure this was in place but i may be wrong...things at MAG take forever.
Many service providers would love to work together but many facilities are held back or stopped all together by MAG.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 2,069
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Must say SQ service is absolutely superb! Would advise anybody travelling that way that SQ is DEFINATELY the carrier to fly with. 13 hours goes so quickly on their a/c! 5*.
Don't get me wrong, I love the A330! Second favourite after the 757 but I just prefer the service on the 77Ws. EK service is very good (from my experiences) and I would have to say I look forward to the flights with them, more so than most.
Don't get me wrong, I love the A330! Second favourite after the 757 but I just prefer the service on the 77Ws. EK service is very good (from my experiences) and I would have to say I look forward to the flights with them, more so than most.
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: EGCC
Age: 74
Posts: 979
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A330etops
With all due respect I think that you will find that Suzeman is rather mature - although maybe the approach of his right to a Bus Pass must be causing him some concern!! 
Seriously though, I think that to cut and paste an entire passage from Wikkipedia, without crediting your source, is a clear case of plagiarism. Suzeman comes from a very reliable background of working within the aviation industry (I do not want to divulge his real identity), and it has been my pleasure to have known him in both a professional and personal capacity for a long time. If you were to read the previous posts made by Suzeman you would see that he has an immense amount of knowledge and is not shy of sharing this amongst us.
Whilst appreciating that this country, and it's numerous websites, enjoy a freedom of speech, I do feel that we should all try very hard to refrain from making defamatory remarks about those who we know nothing about.
Now who has heard the rumour about JAL starting a service from Heathrow?? Only a code-share on the BA Shuttle, so don't get too excited (courtesy of airliners.net)
Scottie Dog
ps - with apologies to G-STAW for any previous comments made!!
Seriously though, I think that to cut and paste an entire passage from Wikkipedia, without crediting your source, is a clear case of plagiarism. Suzeman comes from a very reliable background of working within the aviation industry (I do not want to divulge his real identity), and it has been my pleasure to have known him in both a professional and personal capacity for a long time. If you were to read the previous posts made by Suzeman you would see that he has an immense amount of knowledge and is not shy of sharing this amongst us.
Whilst appreciating that this country, and it's numerous websites, enjoy a freedom of speech, I do feel that we should all try very hard to refrain from making defamatory remarks about those who we know nothing about.
Now who has heard the rumour about JAL starting a service from Heathrow?? Only a code-share on the BA Shuttle, so don't get too excited (courtesy of airliners.net)
Scottie Dog
ps - with apologies to G-STAW for any previous comments made!!