MANCHESTER - 5
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: uk
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i believe charleroi offer subsidies for new routes,therefore no requirement to make opearting profit if all costs are subsidised.i might be mistaken,but am sure i read about it recently.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Europa
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4 times weekly? Who are they exactly aimed at? Surely not business passengers? BE/SN have many daily flights which definitely satisfy the frequency and times. Can it be for the tourism market? Is there enough demand for that? Or is it for a bit of both?
But I suppose Ryanair's presence on the route will make flying to Manchester with SN/BE cheaper for me
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: England
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Allow me to pontificate. That is all I may do, for although I have worked in the air transport industry for some 28 years I would not profess to have an intimate knowledge of the economics of our worthy calling.
By the mid-1990s, MAN had developed into a significant second-tier gateway airport, with services by most of the principal European flag-carriers and a decent number of long-haul routes out to 3 continents beyond Europe. The strategy pursued under Sir Gil Thompson and others (in accordance with the 1978 White Paper) seemed to have worked and MAN provided the North of England with a realistic alternative the using the London airports when travelling just about anywhere. BA remained lukewarm about MAN as a long-haul hub, but that mattered less and less as overseas carriers moved in one by one. The domestic network was very comprehensive, enabling some serious hubbing through interline and on-line connections over MAN, although the transfer 'product' was never developed to the required quality. The second runway promised the availability of slots to grow this hubbing.
Into the late-90s, even as Runway 2 was under construction, LoCos began to spread out of the South East, most significantly with EZYs committment to Liverpool. Many of us were unsure that this would be a success, but 10 years on it has been hugely successful, with tenfold growth in LPLs pax numbers, helped by RYR of course, even if they have only just eventually scraped a profit this year. Then came Jet 2 at LBA and BLK, bmibaby at EMA; Robin Hood, Coventry, all eating away at MANs catchment with services almost exclusively on the low-cost model. Great in the short to medium term for the traveller living north of Watford - they got cheap flights from a local airport to many of the places they wanted to go (for a holiday, at least). Great for those airports which had been sleepy hollows for many years.
But has it been great for the North of England in the longer term, and is it sustainable? Compared to the mid-1990s described above we now have 'choice' - which so often means fragmentation. We have 'choice' to fly to the same destinations for the same fares from just about anywhere. Whilst I have no doubt that the LoCo boom has generated some new traffic I am equally sure that it has undermined the traffic and yields on the full-service routes that MAN previously supported, leading to the loss of many such services. Of course there have been other factors such as the Iraq war, terrorism, credit crunch, oil price etc, but I can't help wondering that through the fragementation of demand due to LoCo and numerous departure points, the North of England has lost out on having its own air transport hub, something which could only ever be viable at a single airport in the North, and that was obviously MAN.
We've seen MAN lose many of the hard-won long haul routes, and also, worryingly, a good number of primary European routes with flag carriers. In this way MAN has lost its critical mass of services which could feed eachother and make new long haul destinations viable. MAN has seen LoCo growth, basically replacing the old legacy services with the same offerings at the same price as are available from LPL, DCS, LBA etc. Not a great exchange deal for the North, as the price has been the loss of its global direct services. Furthermore, most of the smaller regional airports no longer have a service to LHR, and so they cannot even connect over London. Even where the LoCos operate into major EU hubs they do not have interlining arrangements with the big gobal alliances - another loss of connectivity. Somewhere along the line this must be damaging the economy of the North. Good connections are essential to business. Have we exchanged our good connections for a cheap way of getting to a stag night in Eastern Europe?
Airports were never intended to be profitable. They were not built to be businesses in their own right and to seek turnover and retail spend as their raison d'etre. They were built by governments, both national and local, in order that their country, city or region should benefit politically and economically by the trading links that were forged. That may sound out of date, but I re-ask the question - Has the LoCo-led fragementation of air services ultimately benefitted the North of England?
Spot on, roverman.
jongeman, anyone who feels a 'pull' towards LHR and BA is a few bricks short of a load mate, and I don't know many who have that disease any more...
I've just got back from SGN on MH, who you can add to IB and OS on your list of airlines that have left. While a schlep through Schiphol is not the hardest thing to do, it was much better and easier to do KUL-MAN direct a few years back. I see MH are already dumping the LGW-KUL route as well...
By the mid-1990s, MAN had developed into a significant second-tier gateway airport, with services by most of the principal European flag-carriers and a decent number of long-haul routes out to 3 continents beyond Europe. The strategy pursued under Sir Gil Thompson and others (in accordance with the 1978 White Paper) seemed to have worked and MAN provided the North of England with a realistic alternative the using the London airports when travelling just about anywhere. BA remained lukewarm about MAN as a long-haul hub, but that mattered less and less as overseas carriers moved in one by one. The domestic network was very comprehensive, enabling some serious hubbing through interline and on-line connections over MAN, although the transfer 'product' was never developed to the required quality. The second runway promised the availability of slots to grow this hubbing.
Into the late-90s, even as Runway 2 was under construction, LoCos began to spread out of the South East, most significantly with EZYs committment to Liverpool. Many of us were unsure that this would be a success, but 10 years on it has been hugely successful, with tenfold growth in LPLs pax numbers, helped by RYR of course, even if they have only just eventually scraped a profit this year. Then came Jet 2 at LBA and BLK, bmibaby at EMA; Robin Hood, Coventry, all eating away at MANs catchment with services almost exclusively on the low-cost model. Great in the short to medium term for the traveller living north of Watford - they got cheap flights from a local airport to many of the places they wanted to go (for a holiday, at least). Great for those airports which had been sleepy hollows for many years.
But has it been great for the North of England in the longer term, and is it sustainable? Compared to the mid-1990s described above we now have 'choice' - which so often means fragmentation. We have 'choice' to fly to the same destinations for the same fares from just about anywhere. Whilst I have no doubt that the LoCo boom has generated some new traffic I am equally sure that it has undermined the traffic and yields on the full-service routes that MAN previously supported, leading to the loss of many such services. Of course there have been other factors such as the Iraq war, terrorism, credit crunch, oil price etc, but I can't help wondering that through the fragementation of demand due to LoCo and numerous departure points, the North of England has lost out on having its own air transport hub, something which could only ever be viable at a single airport in the North, and that was obviously MAN.
We've seen MAN lose many of the hard-won long haul routes, and also, worryingly, a good number of primary European routes with flag carriers. In this way MAN has lost its critical mass of services which could feed eachother and make new long haul destinations viable. MAN has seen LoCo growth, basically replacing the old legacy services with the same offerings at the same price as are available from LPL, DCS, LBA etc. Not a great exchange deal for the North, as the price has been the loss of its global direct services. Furthermore, most of the smaller regional airports no longer have a service to LHR, and so they cannot even connect over London. Even where the LoCos operate into major EU hubs they do not have interlining arrangements with the big gobal alliances - another loss of connectivity. Somewhere along the line this must be damaging the economy of the North. Good connections are essential to business. Have we exchanged our good connections for a cheap way of getting to a stag night in Eastern Europe?
Airports were never intended to be profitable. They were not built to be businesses in their own right and to seek turnover and retail spend as their raison d'etre. They were built by governments, both national and local, in order that their country, city or region should benefit politically and economically by the trading links that were forged. That may sound out of date, but I re-ask the question - Has the LoCo-led fragementation of air services ultimately benefitted the North of England?
Spot on, roverman.
jongeman, anyone who feels a 'pull' towards LHR and BA is a few bricks short of a load mate, and I don't know many who have that disease any more...
I've just got back from SGN on MH, who you can add to IB and OS on your list of airlines that have left. While a schlep through Schiphol is not the hardest thing to do, it was much better and easier to do KUL-MAN direct a few years back. I see MH are already dumping the LGW-KUL route as well...
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Manchester.
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Easy Jet to Milan
Just looking at MXP website to see what Flybe are operating from MAN at the moment. Noticed they are showing Easy Jet are starting operations. Details below have been cut and pasted. So don't blame me if is incorrect.
INFORMATION ABOUT FLIGHT «U2 09013 » IN ARRIVING AT «MILANO MALPENSA» TERMINAL 2 LAST UPDATE AT 22:54Flight n.U2 09013 Aircraft:319Airline:EASY JET (phone 848.887.766) Valid from:01/10/2008Valid to: 25/10/2008Scheduled:
Arrival time:17:45Duration of the flight:2h 10' nintermediate stopscodenationweb site1MANCHESTER MANGran Bretagnawww.manchesterairport.co.uk2MILANO MALPENSA (Terminal 2)MXPItaliawww.sea-aeroportimilano.it
INFORMATION ABOUT FLIGHT «U2 09013 » IN ARRIVING AT «MILANO MALPENSA» TERMINAL 2 LAST UPDATE AT 22:54Flight n.U2 09013 Aircraft:319Airline:EASY JET (phone 848.887.766) Valid from:01/10/2008Valid to: 25/10/2008Scheduled:
Arrival time:17:45Duration of the flight:2h 10' nintermediate stopscodenationweb site1MANCHESTER MANGran Bretagnawww.manchesterairport.co.uk2MILANO MALPENSA (Terminal 2)MXPItaliawww.sea-aeroportimilano.it
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Anybody know why ZOOM are operating one two of their JFK flights via MAN?
Monday 6th October LGW-MAN-JFK
Sunday 12th October JFK-MAN-LGW
All other flights are as per usual - non-stop.
Cheers.
Monday 6th October LGW-MAN-JFK
Sunday 12th October JFK-MAN-LGW
All other flights are as per usual - non-stop.
Cheers.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Manchester, England
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MUFC Fan,
not sure, ill try and find out.
btw zoom are getting in a mess at the moment with frequent delays across their network, mostly over in canada, rather than over here. Its got to the point where some crew are getting alittle frustrated.
BREAK
the result of thomsonfly and first choice merger is that they're being rebranded into "Thomson Airways", first aircraft to be painted by 2nd quarter 2009, im quite suprised...
Last i heard was that FCA liveried planes was staying as, but changing their names on the forward fuselarge...
How quick things change in aviation.......
G-STAW
not sure, ill try and find out.
btw zoom are getting in a mess at the moment with frequent delays across their network, mostly over in canada, rather than over here. Its got to the point where some crew are getting alittle frustrated.
BREAK
the result of thomsonfly and first choice merger is that they're being rebranded into "Thomson Airways", first aircraft to be painted by 2nd quarter 2009, im quite suprised...
Last i heard was that FCA liveried planes was staying as, but changing their names on the forward fuselarge...
How quick things change in aviation.......
G-STAW
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: stockport
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baggage
landed late last night on delayed flight operated by tcx the baggage came off fairly quick but after only half had been delivered the baggage stopped after 20 mins we were told that the baggage handlers had gone to terminal 2 to service another flight , they returned after over half an hour to complete the servicing of our baggage . Does anybody know if this is general practice and if so then Why is it general practice ?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Manchester
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In some cases, handling agents have an agreement with airlines where flights on schedule get priority over delayed flights. I have never actually come across a scenario where they've ditched a delayed inbound half way through to go and deal with an on time arrival, although I guess this could be one of the clauses in the contract if there were no loaders available to deal with the other flight. One thing that does confuse me slightly about this though is that TCX baggage is done by Menzies and they don't deal with any T2 based airlines.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Manchester, England
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ditto
TCX baggage is done by Menzies and they don't deal with any T2 based airlines
second that, Menzies deffinatly wasnt over here yesterday, unless they was unloading off a remote stand?, if so, i still cant think of whom it could be.
Sounds like its another story to devieve the pax, shifting the blame to try and cover-up an already overstretched operation, no fault of the ground staff mind! its just very bad managment.......
G-STAW
TCX baggage is done by Menzies and they don't deal with any T2 based airlines
Sounds like its another story to devieve the pax, shifting the blame to try and cover-up an already overstretched operation, no fault of the ground staff mind! its just very bad managment.......
G-STAW
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NW England
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China Airlines
Noticed both Wed and today's China A/L freighters were cancelled and also heard a third hand ! story that one of the handlers had lost several flights to China. I know Jett 8 are sacking their route shortly and that China A/L said they were stopping some of their routes, has ours gone or are they just temporary cancellations ?
Andy
Andy
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Freight
The effects of the cuts mentioned by spannersatcx are already being felt. The May figures show a 6% decline.
A lot of this I guess is due to the significant reduction in CX flights but CI were down by a third too.
With a stagnant UK economy and soaring fuel prices, the cargo bubble has probably burst and I don't see this as a growth area for a while unless a new operator appears. Speaking of which, there appears to be no mention of the rumoured Jade service - their website only mentions new service this month to Brescia and Barcelona and increased service to AMS.
Suzeman
A lot of this I guess is due to the significant reduction in CX flights but CI were down by a third too.With a stagnant UK economy and soaring fuel prices, the cargo bubble has probably burst and I don't see this as a growth area for a while unless a new operator appears. Speaking of which, there appears to be no mention of the rumoured Jade service - their website only mentions new service this month to Brescia and Barcelona and increased service to AMS.
Suzeman
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Why are DL and US shown as arriving from Las Vegas, Raleigh Durham and LAX this morning?
I have noticed this over the last few months.
Are they a/c based at those airports that call into the JFK and Philly hubs en-route, and if so, can you book these as a final destination?
I have noticed this over the last few months.
Are they a/c based at those airports that call into the JFK and Philly hubs en-route, and if so, can you book these as a final destination?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Dublin
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Alot of US airlines use T/A flight numbers on domestic legs aswell.
For example here at DUB we have DL operating DUB-ATL-MCO all with flight DL176.
Our CO23 is a DUB-EWR-IAH flight.
For example here at DUB we have DL operating DUB-ATL-MCO all with flight DL176.
Our CO23 is a DUB-EWR-IAH flight.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Manchester, England
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the delta 064/065 has routed LAS-ATL-MAN-ATL-LAS for the last couple of months or so, i dont know why they do this.
On a dipatch ticket we got last week it stated flight 064 came for LAS, i quietly corrected the allocator, as it came from direct from ATL as pre usual.
G-STAW
On a dipatch ticket we got last week it stated flight 064 came for LAS, i quietly corrected the allocator, as it came from direct from ATL as pre usual.
G-STAW
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Recently travelled to and from the States ( into Memphis, back from DFW) using US. The flight was shown as 'Las Vegas via Philadelphia'.
Amongst the options offered by my travel agent was Delta ex MAN via Cincinnatti. I was told that the plane would stop at JFK but that I would not have to get off, reclaim my luggage and go through US Customs/Immigration until CVG. Is this correct ?
Amongst the options offered by my travel agent was Delta ex MAN via Cincinnatti. I was told that the plane would stop at JFK but that I would not have to get off, reclaim my luggage and go through US Customs/Immigration until CVG. Is this correct ?